A Wholesome attitude to being on Camino ...

[David]

Note to moderators - this is not a discussion on religion in any way, merely background to a point I would like to make about attitude on Camino - just my point of view of course.

Hi all. There was a post recently that may still be going on - (and to which my reply would probably have been seen as somewhat rude by some .. a wake up and snap out of it response which I have now edited) and it was by a sadly unhappy person .. unhappy because their Camino was completely unlike their expectations ... and this really can be a problem ... to go there with expectations, plans, pre-conceived ideas about how it will be out there - if the Camino, as pilgrimage, is anything it is stepping off the cliff into the unknown .. a something that, unless we make it a guided package holiday, we have to be open to and ready to take all as it comes.
As Frank Zappa once said "a mind is like a parachute, if it isn't open it doesn't work"

Anyway ... I was reading some Minot Savage just now - my go-to theological reads. A 19th century minister located on the east coast of America, a leading Unitarian, and a great speaker, a great thinker, a great man ... I read and re-read his works often.

I noticed this and although I have read it many times this time it seemed apt for attitude and awareness on Camino ... to be aware, to be ready to engage with 'what is' not what one wants ... to make the most of each thing that happens .. to see .
(works with life generally too )



Ref: Our Unitarian Gospel, Minot Judson Savage, Reprint, first published 1898 - Pge 78

 

[Seekingpeace]

Love this, thank you for sharing, @David -Prior to my 17 yo son and I beginning our Camino in Astorga on June 14/15, I was carrying a lot of anxiety and worry about what might go wrong, especially in terms of the chronic illness I live with. The very first day, within an hour of getting off the train in León prior to our connection, Camino Magic showed up and came through in a powerful way and put me at the most profound sense of ease and trust that has allowed me to appreciate the small things every day - and see and respond when those around me are in need.

Not quite the same, but for some reason your post is also bringing up for me the Rumi poem:

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.

Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

 

[K_Lynn]

@David thank you for this.
learned the lesson of expectations about 20 years ago when I was at an ayahuasca retreat. I had read great descriptions of incredible experiences and insights and was eagerly anticipating my own. Needless to say I was disappointed with everything and everyone connected with that first evening. Which made me even more disappointed and upset.

I took the day to walk in the park and laze about and pick at my feelings. And realized that I had gone into it expecting to mimic someone else’s experiences. I managed to toss that aside and ended up having my own epiphanies.

We can only ever experience our own lives. Trying to live someone else’s is impossible. We can empathize with them, we can celebrate with them but they are not ours. Sometimes our lives and experiences are less than we had hoped. Sometimes they are more. Sometimes they just are.

 

[Dani7]

I have been asked many times since my return from my Camino « did it meet your expectations » (that exact word). My response was and is « I had none » which leaves most dumbfounded. I did not bring any despite all my years of research. I wanted to be present. That’s it. And I was. Every day…walking for hours and having the gift of time. It was the most magnificent, humble and challenging experience of my 67 years on this earth.

Love this thread. Thank you for posting

 

[Tincatinker]

A tab-holed (over heard) conversation in O Bispo one mellow afternoon: “So, what did you get out of your Camino?”, “Out.” “What?” “Out. I got out of everything I normally do. I didn’t do anything I normally do. I just walked. I just walked to Santiago. And I feel great.” “So, what do you think you got out of your Camino?” “Out!”

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Great thread, @David!
Dare I say that I had many expectations before I walked my first Camino and that the majority of them came from the film, "The Way"...all were met and then some!
Possibly I was silly to have those expectations to begin with, taken from a movie, but I am compelled to keep returning to enjoy whatever the Caminos still hold for me, as long as I am able.

 

[Robo]

@David thank you for this.
learned the lesson of expectations about 20 years ago when I was at an ayahuasca retreat. I had read great descriptions of incredible experiences and insights and was eagerly anticipating my own. Needless to say I was disappointed with everything and everyone connected with that first evening. Which made me even more disappointed and upset.

I took the day to walk in the park and laze about and pick at my feelings. And realized that I had gone into it expecting to mimic someone else’s experiences. I managed to toss that aside and ended up having my own epiphanies.

We can only ever experience our own lives. Trying to live someone else’s is impossible. We can empathize with them, we can celebrate with them but they are not ours. Sometimes our lives and experiences are less than we had hoped. Sometimes they are more. Sometimes they just are.

Oh No. You just reminded me of the one of the strangest 'retreats' or 'activities' I have ever attended.

But the story is actually quite relevant.

I signed up for a 5 day singing and song writing retreat. I cannot sing, or write songs by the way.
It was intended to provide the attendees (12 of us) with increased confidence in public speaking and engaging an audience more 'authentically'.

Each afternoon we would have to write a song with the 'theme' of the day. And each evening perform it in front of the group. Public speaking is scary for most people. Try public singing!

Each morning was filled with discussion, chanting, toning and examining our architypes! (the daily theme)
Totally out of my comfort zone! And complete BS I thought......... what a load of woo woo SxxT !

I was frustrated and somewhat angry, that (a) I was wasting my time and money on this and (b) That everyone else seemed to be 'buying into' this BS. What mugs they were........

At the end of the second day, a lady attending the retreat confided that she felt as I did.

So I suggested we form a 'pact'.

The fact was, we had paid a lot of money to be here. And 10 out of the 12 of us seemed to be 'getting it' even though we weren't. So how about this...........

"We pretend that this stuff is all great, and throw ourselves 100% into it"

We fake it! So we did...........

And something magical happened. Probably because we stopped 'fighting' against it all.

By the end of the next day, we 'got it'. Big time.

And it turned out to be one the strangest, most amazing, most challenging and most transformational things I have ever done! Way harder than a Camino.........

So maybe, to come back to @David 's point.
If we are not having the Camino we expect.
Don't push back.
Don't fight against it.
Embrace it.
However uncomfortable that makes you feel.
And just maybe.......things will start to make sense and turnaround.

..

 

[Shalaw]

This about sums it up! I believe there is such a thing as too much planning, too many expectations. Just go with an open mind and an open heart and embrace what comes next. There is such beauty in getting up each day and going for a long walk, not knowing how your day will unfold.

Buen Camino!

 

[PrayerPose25]

Despite planning and prepping, I didn't know what to expect on my Camino. It was much like parenthood or marriage to me - you don't know or understand the experience until you live it. Walking from SJPdP to Santiago was entirely a "leap of faith" and absolutely wonderful because it was just that; it unfolded as it was supposed to.

 

[David Harper]

We are all searching for a deeper meaning to our camino, and our lives, especially as we mature. Perhaps the translation from our time on the camino to our everyday life is; that we have too many expectations and miss what is really happening right in front of us. Thanks for posting this thread.

 

[bullingtonce]

Note to moderators - this is not a discussion on religion in any way, merely background to a point I would like to make about attitude on Camino - just my point of view of course.

Hi all. There was a post recently that may still be going on - (and to which my reply would probably have been seen as somewhat rude by some .. a wake up and snap out of it response which I have now edited) and it was by a sadly unhappy person .. unhappy because their Camino was completely unlike their expectations ... and this really can be a problem ... to go there with expectations, plans, pre-conceived ideas about how it will be out there - if the Camino, as pilgrimage, is anything it is stepping off the cliff into the unknown .. a something that, unless we make it a guided package holiday, we have to be open to and ready to take all as it comes.
As Frank Zappa once said "a mind is like a parachute, if it isn't open it doesn't work"

Anyway ... I was reading some Minot Savage just now - my go-to theological reads. A 19th century minister located on the east coast of America, a leading Unitarian, and a great speaker, a great thinker, a great man ... I read and re-read his works often.

I noticed this and although I have read it many times this time it seemed apt for attitude and awareness on Camino ... to be aware, to be ready to engage with 'what is' not what one wants ... to make the most of each thing that happens .. to see .
(works with life generally too )

View attachment 150250

Ref: Our Unitarian Gospel, Minot Judson Savage, Reprint, first published 1898 - Pge 78

Very perceptive as, very often, the problems/challenges we experience in this world are due to our own, falsely self-created, perceptions if I may humbly so opine. Being able to change or refine our perceptions is an important life-long skill although I have to admit this is an ever-changing process as we never, completely never, get it absolutely right. Thank you for sharing.

 

[david g]

Unfulfilled expectations can be the death of a great Camino experience. When people ask me my favorite albergue/restaurant/ route because they want to experience it as I did I tell them the same thing-you’ll find your own special places and experiences. Overplanning, over reading and viewing videos of others experiences can make us look so hard to recreate those moments that were special to someone else that we completely miss our own.

 

[Lydia Gillen]

This poem is so true and because of its truth it is beautiful. I will write it out so I can learn it off by heart. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[alexwalker]

Glad to call you a friend, @David . Good words.

 

[Sandra R]

Love this, thank you for sharing, @David -Prior to my 17 yo son and I beginning our Camino in Astorga on June 14/15, I was carrying a lot of anxiety and worry about what might go wrong, especially in terms of the chronic illness I live with. The very first day, within an hour of getting off the train in León prior to our connection, Camino Magic showed up and came through in a powerful way and put me at the most profound sense of ease and trust that has allowed me to appreciate the small things every day - and see and respond when those around me are in need.

Not quite the same, but for some reason your post is also bringing up for me the Rumi poem:

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.

Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

Thankyou so much for sharing this Rumi poem! Wow, it is timeless, profound and beautiful

 

[dougfitz]

We are all searching for a deeper meaning to our camino, and our lives, especially as we mature.

This is one of those statements where I feel it necessary to point out that one of the worst of expectations is that one can expect others, either on this forum or on the camino, to be engaged in the same way with walking the camino as we are as individuals. I don't think one should ever expect that, nor make such bold statements about the motivations of others about which we have neither insight nor understanding.

 

[VNwalking]

This can't be improved on. Thanks, @Robo.

(And good for you to have challenged those limits!)

Don't push back.
Don't fight against it.
Embrace it.
However uncomfortable that makes you feel

Unfulfilled expectations can be the death of a great Camino experience.

I never planned or had expectations of my first camino, because I was just tagging along with a friend. A real blessing. I didn't have a guidebook or anything but a little book of Michelin maps that I bought in Leon. It wad such a gift to be so open and without the overlay of movies and endless vlogs, blogs, forum posts, etc.

 

[dick bird]

This is one of those statements where I feel it necessary to point out that one of the worst of expectations is that one can expect others, either on this forum or on the camino, to be engaged in the same way with walking the camino as we are as individuals. I don't think one should ever expect that, nor make such bold statements about the motivations of others about which we have neither insight nor understanding.

Precisely. It is something I would not personally take for granted.

 

[HKim]

I read Ephesians last week, and have been going to sleep listening to short stories by Rumi the last few days. So this thread seems serendipitous.

Earlier tonight I wrote in a group story-telling forum:
Should she sense that any of her queries touch a sensitive nerve, Yofiel will apologize. "If I pry too much, then tell me plainly. As I was raised, I asked questions. My parents, and my people, would answer many. At times, my father would challenge me. 'Yofi, let me see if you can figure out the answer to your own question.' -- He wanted me to observe, speculate, and do some learning for myself. And to some queries, I would be told, 'That is for you to learn about later when you are ready.'"

So, what will my Camino be like? That will be for me to discover as I walk the way.

[But I'm still going to learn what I can ahead of time!!]

 

[LTfit]

This about sums it up! I believe there is such a thing as too much planning, too many expectations. Just go with an open mind and an open heart and embrace what comes next. There is such beauty in getting up each day and going for a long walk, not knowing how your day will unfold.

Buen Camino!

View attachment 150335

Amén. Isn't it wonderful?

Thanks @David for starting this thread. I'm reading through the posts while resting my feet after a 30 km day on the Olvidado.

Before I started this Camino I actually planned (a first for me) because I was told that there are few to no services during the stages, poor to no signage during the first week, little chance of meeting other pilgrims and only several albergues.
After 11 days walking all of the above have been true! So yes, plan as little as possible, but on some very solitary and remote Caminos preparation is essential

 

[David Harper]

This is one of those statements where I feel it necessary to point out that one of the worst of expectations is that one can expect others, either on this forum or on the camino, to be engaged in the same way with walking the camino as we are as individuals. I don't think one should ever expect that, nor make such bold statements about the motivations of others about which we have neither insight nor understanding.I think that I should have said MANY are searching for a deeper meaning...

I think that i should have said MANY are searching for a deeper meaning..., instead of WE ARE ALL searching...

 

[Holly West]

Note to moderators - this is not a discussion on religion in any way, merely background to a point I would like to make about attitude on Camino - just my point of view of course.

Hi all. There was a post recently that may still be going on - (and to which my reply would probably have been seen as somewhat rude by some .. a wake up and snap out of it response which I have now edited) and it was by a sadly unhappy person .. unhappy because their Camino was completely unlike their expectations ... and this really can be a problem ... to go there with expectations, plans, pre-conceived ideas about how it will be out there - if the Camino, as pilgrimage, is anything it is stepping off the cliff into the unknown .. a something that, unless we make it a guided package holiday, we have to be open to and ready to take all as it comes.
As Frank Zappa once said "a mind is like a parachute, if it isn't open it doesn't work"

Anyway ... I was reading some Minot Savage just now - my go-to theological reads. A 19th century minister located on the east coast of America, a leading Unitarian, and a great speaker, a great thinker, a great man ... I read and re-read his works often.

I noticed this and although I have read it many times this time it seemed apt for attitude and awareness on Camino ... to be aware, to be ready to engage with 'what is' not what one wants ... to make the most of each thing that happens .. to see .
(works with life generally too )

View attachment 150250

Ref: Our Unitarian Gospel, Minot Judson Savage, Reprint, first published 1898 - Pge 78

Thanks for sharing that. I am going to share it today with a friend who could use those words today and also try to get a copy of that book!

 

[vernakeoho]

The Camino Forum is my morning read and I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation ... which brings to mind the 8-word mantra from Wat Ram Peng monastery in Chiang Mai as I was studying vipassana meditation about 20 years ago: "no doubt - no worry - no expectation - present moment." THAT perfectly describes an ideal mindset for the Camino. Whatever challenges arise, reminding ourselves that we are creating this experience - and our life - puts it into perspective. Many of our most memorable "trials" can become joyful to view in a different light years down the road as we discover who we are and can be in each moment of Life.

 

[grayland]

We had little or no knowledge of the Camino on our first walk in 2009. We did not know of the forum, facebook or guides when we decided to go late 2008. We set off in March 2009 with really just a basic plan of getting to St. Jean. Our only plan after that was to walk toward Santiago following the arrows we understood pointed the way. We did get some handout lists of albergues from the Pilgrim Office in SJPP and used that along the way.
We had no expectations or pre conceived ideas of what was to come along the way.

We were not disappointed in our adventure.

The many caminos that followed were, of course, less unanticipated.

 

[AnneMarie1]

Amén. Isn't it wonderful?

Thanks @David for starting this thread. I'm reading through the posts while resting my feet after a 30 km day on the Olvidado.

Before I started this Camino I actually planned (a first for me) because I was told that there are few to no services during the stages, poor to no signage during the first week, little chance of meeting other pilgrims and only several albergues.
After 11 days walking all of the above have been true! So yes, plan as little as possible, but on some very solitary and remote Caminos preparation is essential

Finished the Invierno recently, and I agree.