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I guess they do... ok, those are good substitute words... thanks!Why have they reacted though, do they keep an eye on even a small forum shop?
Thanks.... I guess since I do not live in an English speaking country I am not sure if it is "a common noun" or not. For me personally it is, but for the general population? Not sure..Check to see if “buff” has become a “common” noun. A common noun is a trademark that has become a way to describe something. For instance Jeep. Jeep is a car company. But, when I use Jeep to describe a car, a certain type of vehicle comes to mind.
If so you can use the word in your description trademark or no.
Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
Welcome to the world of trademarks, patents, and other intellectual property.
IMO buff is English, but not American.
Also color like a lite yellow!!
Also to polish (my car)
Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.“Buff” has become a “common” noun.
A common noun is an item that’s also a trademark but used by many to describe something.
For instance a Jeep. Jeep is a car company. However, when I use the word jeep I am describing a certain type of car.
I am fairly certain you can use the word to sell the item without trademark infringement.
Ohh... so someone has "Neck Warmers" trademarked? So that will not work then...Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.
In this case I suppose one could look at patents/registered names of similar products to ensure you don't walk out of one fire directly into another. A quick google search shows patents held for similar products such as Neck Gaiter, Neck Warmer and more making this a more challenging task than first appears.
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Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.
In this case I suppose one could look at patents/registered names of similar products to ensure you don't walk out of one fire directly into another. A quick google search shows patents held for similar products such as Neck Gaiter, Neck Warmer and more making this a more challenging task than first appears.
View attachment 62213
Dontcha hate the idea of coming up with a good idea and a dozen or so companies ripping you offSmart and easy way out, Ivar. Doubt that anyone wants to defend rights to 'neck warmer'. And you are Camino Neck Warmer.
You can always wait until you get a 'Cease and Desist" order!!
Dontcha love the concept of intellectual property!!
For the European Union, it's https://euipo.europa.eu . Original Buff S.A. is a Spanish company with headquarters in Barcelona. They have several registered trademarks on name and logo. The trademark number for the word is 009201856.I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?)
That does it except that they are just as often worn on the head as on the neck.I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
Yep, Tube Scarf is a good nameThat does it except that they are just as often worn on the head as on the neck.
Personally, I like tube scarf, if the Buff people haven't provided an alternative.
Thats it.. they have it trademarked. Will have a think about what to call them then...For the European Union, it's https://euipo.europa.eu . As I said already, Original Buff S.A. is a Spanish company with headquarters in Barcelona. They have several registered trademarks on name and logo. The trademark number for the word is 009201856.
Snock!Thats it.. they have it trademarked. Will have a think about what to call them then...
Ooh! Think of the advertising campaign: "Ivar headwarmer . . . . do you?"Can you just call it an "Ivar"?
You could try neck gaiter too. (I see this has lready been suggested.) Remembering to Capitalize the official brand name stuff might also help...where did they register it as a trademark? 'Cause "representatives" may be going off of a different nations rules, and it sounds like you should see if there is a lawyer in your family that can and will answer some questions for you.Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
The guy from Catalonia who created the brandname Buff, is quoted as saying that he made up the name and it's derived from bufanda which means scarf in English.The use of the word "buff" for an item of clothing startled me when I first encountered it. In my American corner of the English-speaking world, "buff" -- as "in the buff" -- is a euphemism for going without clothing altogether.
I could not find a listing for this term on an IP Australia search, which would indicate that there might be patent protection for a particular product, but not trademark protection for the term. There are a number of protected terms containing the word 'warmer' but not 'Neck Warmer' or 'Neck Warmers'.Ohh... so someone has "Neck Warmers" trademarked? So that will not work then...
“Buff” has become a “common” noun.
A common noun is an item that’s also a trademark but used by many to describe something.
For instance a Jeep. Jeep is a car company. However, when I use the word jeep I am describing a certain type of car.
I am fairly certain you can use the word to sell the item without trademark infringement.
First, I completely understand Buff's position. That said, I think your replacement choice, particularly the word "warmers", communicates the item is for cooler weather and may limit your sales. I've used Buff's (yes, the original) since the company first started and for thousands of miles on my feet and two wheels in every imaginable weather condition as well as for a plethora of other purposes (for example during my Camino I ripped mine in half to make a tourniquet for a pilgrim in a medical emergency). Ivar, perhaps "Multi-Functional Head/Neck wear" would be a more encompassing description? By the way, thanks for all you do for the pilgrim community.I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
I would say Camino neck / head protectors.I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
And that they are....love my 3 "Camino Neck Warmers"!I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
I think that the horse has bolted on this. In the US there are 214 live trademarks containing the word 'buff', and in Australia 163 instances where a term containing 'buff' is currently protected. The EU IPO site isn't responding right now, so I would be guessing on how many trademarks containing the work have trademark protection there.Otherwise some bugger will eventually TM shoes, boots and underpants.
...Buff is the official name. I bought several of the Camino Buffs/love 'em. Could you call it "Buffy". A bit tongue and cheekHola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
Does anyone subscribe to the Oxford English Dictionary or similar, and can look up 'buff' to see if it's gone generic?
But you can wear them as a hat!I had never heard the word "buff" used to describe neck clothing until that Spanish company came along. If it is true that they created this unique usage, maybe they can copyright it. If they tried to copyright the name "Buff" for a polishing cloth, (to "buff" shoes, for example) it could be different.
I favour the term "neckwear."
They coined the name Buff in Spanish for Spain and perhaps didn't expect to operate worldwide eventually so they didn't take the potential meaning of the word in the languages of future markets into considerationmaybe they can copyright it. If they tried to copyright the name "Buff" for a polishing cloth, (to "buff" shoes, for example) it could be different.
It's a Camino buff so why not call it a Cabuff
I see that someone proposed Cabuff. This would be absolutely hilarious in Germany (an important market for buff like products) because they have the word Kabuff which sounds exactly the same.
Pretty much what I was going to suggest.They wrote to me with the same a year or so ago. In my Ebay shop I invented a new name "the Neckie" and changed my title to "Neck tube - the Neckie - not by Buff" so I say it isn't by Buff but it still appears in search engines and they have left me alone now.
Hope this helps.
Here is the description on Amazon,Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
A bandana,an ascot,a savant,a kerchief,un beneficioHola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
Maybe "Buff" with an upper-case B is a trademark, but surely "buff" with a small 'b' isn't?Hola all,
I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.
I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Ivar
They explain on their website to all who want to know that the guy who developed the Buff was a passionate motorcyclist who used his braga militar / army neck warmer for his rides but it was not enough to keep the cold away. So he finally came up with the solution that brought success: a garment without seams and made of microfiber.It's pretty clear that they didn't invent the concept, but they certainly own the trademark.
I bought a custom Buff from a Canadian lady about 7 years ago and nobody, at that time, could understand why a Spanish company hadn't spotted the potential -I believe I used the word "original" when describing the Buff that I offer through your resources section:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/resources/camino-buff.80/
as it is an original Camino de Santiago design but produced by the Buff company for us.
Interesting to note that the Buff company started producting their own Camino de Santiago designs after I had ordered about 4 different times a batch of 50-100. I would be curious to know if my orders had anything to do with their decision.
...passionate motorcyclist who used his braga militar / army neck warmer for his rides but it was not enough to keep the cold away.
Interested to know if one of these in pic is one of your original designs?Interesting to note that the Buff company started producting their own Camino de Santiago designs after I had ordered about 4 different times a batch of 50-100.
They also do a summer weight one now in a similar material to a Buff - you can have them in green, green or sand!It’s fair to assume the the Spanish army anticipates better weather than the British!
My issued item is suitable for full-on winter, has no seams and is a two-sided smooth/fluffy garment in a fetching shade of green.
Trade mark it in the E.U.I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
Hi Ivar - for what it's worth, I'd go for Neck GaiterI am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..
You can trademark words that are in wide use, just not when they are in wide use for your particular kind of product. Then people can continue using them as they have without infringing on your trademark, just as someone opening McDonalds Auto Shop won't be infringing on McDonalds restaurants.looks like it is a generic and in much to general use and with variable meanings to be trade-marked to me: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/buff
Definition of BUFF
a garment (such as a uniform) made of buff leather; the state of being nude; a moderate orange yellow… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com Definition of buff | Dictionary.com
Buff definition, a soft, thick, light-yellow leather with a napped surface, originally made from buffalo skin but later also from other skins, used for making belts, pouches, etc. See more.www.dictionary.com Buff Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary
Buff definition: A soft, thick, undyed leather made chiefly from the skins of buffalo, elk, or oxen.www.yourdictionary.com
I guess there was no one around with sufficient interest to challenge the original trade-mark application though it probably should have been rejected. Otherwise some bugger will eventually TM shoes, boots and underpants.
Take the Capitalisation out or transliterate to "boeuf"
Only by those who wear them on their neck, which not everyone does.Buff is a Spanish / Catalan company.
The item is called neck warmer or - cooler.
Hi Ivar - for what it's worth, I'd go for Neck Gaiter
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