Concerns relating to the current economic crisis in Spain

[Farmer John]

Hola Ivar!

The economic crisis in Spain is a big news item in the US media daily. I realize many of the effects of the EU loan to the Spanish government have yet to take place. How are the ordinary citizens of your country viewing all this? If the many new taxes that are to be created to repay the loan are implemented, how will this affect the cost of future pilgrimages? It seems that everything will have substantial new taxes affixed, including food and lodging, the primary needs of a pilgrim. Your insight would be appreciated. My plans are to start my Camino next May in Le Puy.
Muchas gracias,
Farmer John
A hopeful pilgrim

 

[vagabondette]

there's a thread on this that several people living in spain have commented on. You should be able to find it using the search function and it might answer some of your questions.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Farmer John,
I think the thread vagabondette was referring to is this one: frequently-asked-questions/topic13598.html

I just got my Sunday New York Times, and there is an article dealing with the depth and breadth of the current crisis. It is really frightening to think of the many families in such precarious situations. This doesn't really go to your questioin about how it will affect the Camino, but it is sobering and very sad.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/world ... &ref=world

And while I'm at it, adding links to NYT stories, yesterday's paper had an article delving into the miners' crisis, which is of course just a small part of the overall collapse. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/world ... wanted=all

I walked the Camino del Salvador this summer, and the Camino passes directly through some of the places mentioned in the article. In fact, when I was in Campomanes (an Asturian town about a day and a half's walk from Oviedo) there was a miner's strike that involved blocking all the roads, rail lines, and general access to Campomanes. I was able to easily continue walking on the Camino, and the only real impact it had on me was that the media filled up the bars and had filled the one pension in town so I had no choice but to continue to Pola de Lena. But it was a really sharp reminder that thousands and thousands of people are being reduced to poverty by the budget cuts. To the extent that the Camino traffic brings revenue into Spain, I suppose it is an overall very positive thing.

Buen camino from one hot and parched spot in the midwest to another . Your screen name suggests that you may be suffering the drought in a totally different way than I am, if so, I hope for the best for your crops. Laurie

 

[Farmer John]

Hi Laurie,

Thanks for the informative and friendly reply. I checked out both NYT links which added to my growing cache of knowledge regarding Spain's ongoing financial pains. The article regarding the Spanish miners struck a nerve as my maternal grandfather was a coal miner in southern Iowa his entire life. My mother still talks fearfully of the bitterness of the coal miner strikes there in the 30's and what a strain it put on both the miners and their families. I wish I could envision a more painless solution to the problems there, but can't. My most sincere hope for all involved is that the situation not deteriorate to the point that Pilgrims start to cancel or postpone their quest. We have all seen what has happened to the tourist industry in Greece after the ongoing street riots there. It is obvious what a boon the Camino is to the people of northern Spain in particular. I don't intend to let the added cost of the Pilgrimage be a reason for cancelling my plans, especially if those costs are in some way helping alleviate the current crisis.

We drove I 74 through Champaign/ Urbana just last week on the way to a family reunion in Tennessee. Our fellow Illinois farmers are in the same drought classification as we are here in southern Iowa and their crops looked equally stressed. Record high crop prices beckon, but the reality of not knowing if we'll get ANY crop to sell makes those sales a real gamble.

Thanks again for you reply,
Farmer John

 

[sag10]

Really, most of the spanish people are becoming a little more poor, and we realize it in our daily life. However, the country works pretty well in spite of all difficulties. I think the encreasing of taxes is not affecting the pilgrimage in a outstandig way.

Santi

 

[ivar]

Really, most of the spanish people are becoming a little more poor, and we realize it in our daily life. However, the country works pretty well in spite of all difficulties. I think the encreasing of taxes is not affecting the pilgrimage in a outstandig way.

Santi

I agree with this... sales tax has gone up a bit, many have lost their jobs... and things can only get better (and I think it will, I am an optimist), but I do not think pilgrims will notice it much day to day.

Saludos,
Ivar

 

[Farmer John]

Gracias, Ivar and Sag10. I was hoping that was the case, and as I said in my earlier post, if the extra money added by the Pilgrims eventually aids the Spanish people, it will be just one more "plus" for the journey.

Buen Camino,
Farmer John
A hopeful Pilgrim

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Alas I fear things in Spain can only get worse for a while. Generally prices will go up however restaurants in particular have become more competitive. In Santiago there are restaurants with three course Menus del Dia starting at 7€. Another innovation is in addition to the Menu del Dia restaurants are offering "one course + pudding + drink + bread+ coffee" for 6€.

In my view the pilgrimage will continue to grow unaffected by the economic crisis - come and enjoy the Camino - just don't tranfer your life savings to a Spanish bank!

 

[gaulsdog]

This post deleted by moderators.
A reminder to all: Please read the "Forum Rules" by Ivar above.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Gaul, an honest question was asked by the OP. He got some straight answers from knowledgeable people.

And then he´s flamed (by you) for simply being from North America.

This is an open forum, a civilized place for free exchange of information. Please try to be civil to the people here, and leave the bigotry and nationalism someplace else.

Reb.

 

[fraluchi]

The economic crisis in Spain is a big news item in the US media daily. [...] My plans are to start my Camino next May in Le Puy.

When walking the Camino you wouldn't notice much of what the US media is using to fill the newspapers. (the NYT is not a nec-plus-ultra in Spain, less so with informed intellectuals anywhere else) So start your Camino peacefully, without worries which have no relation.
After all, since 2008 (when the "crisis" started), the Camino has experienced steadily increasing numbers of visitors. Facilities for pilgrims along the Camino Francès have amazed old-timers, who earlier passed a night in Burgos at the Parral and found a super albergue only blocks from the cathedral. From Roncesvalles to Santiago, the price-quality relation available in albergues and restaurants has remained very competitive.
Whatever happens economically (not only in Spain) between now and next year May is open to personal convictions. I wouldn't worry too much and plan my Camino! :|

 

[Deleted member 3000]

MADRID — More than 60 senior figures from Spain's previous Socialist administration have declined their end-of-term payouts, officials said Saturday, saving cash-strapped Spain nearly five million euros.

Out of 85 people who were entitled to the compensation, 64 declined payments, for savings of 4.76 million euros ($5.89 million), the finance ministry said in a statement.

Ex-prime minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero started the practice and most of his former government followed suit. The payouts are for 80 percent of a lawmaker's salary for up to two years.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's Conservative government has since passed laws preventing outgoing high officials from collecting such payments.

Recession-choked Spain is trying to slash its public deficit from 8.9 percent of gross domestic product last year to 6.3 percent this year, then down to 4.5 percent in 2013 and 2.8 percent the year after that.

It has introduced a swingeing series of austerity measures and plans to save 102 billion euros by 2014.

Spain's economic crisis has pushed its unemployment rate to almost 25 percent.

Wall Street did not do the same thing!

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Not yet

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/ ... AG20120802

 

[jirit]

Alas I fear things in Spain can only get worse for a while. Generally prices will go up however restaurants in particular have become more competitive. In Santiago there are restaurants with three course Menus del Dia starting at 7€. Another innovation is in addition to the Menu del Dia restaurants are offering "one course + pudding + drink + bread+ coffee" for 6€.

In my view the pilgrimage will continue to grow unaffected by the economic crisis - come and enjoy the Camino - just don't tranfer your life savings to a Spanish bank!

The situation in Spain is grim for many.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le4620184/

A reminder of how fortunate we are to have the ability to travel to Spain from places like North America, to take five weeks out of our busy lives to walk the camino. I am sure many in Spain are simply trying to survive, far few, thinking of walking across Spain.

 

[peregrina2000]

Still more bad news, and it sounds like more is on the way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/busin ... =recg&_r=0

I'm sure that pilgrims' presence won't turn the tide, but I know that it certainly has helped a lot of small towns ward off extinction.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[ivar]

Yes. Pilgrims help the rural areas, that often are struggling the most.

So: "Come to Spain!"

Buen Camino!
Ivar

 

[tyrrek]

Yep. The Camino is an economy all of its own to some extent. The huge proportion of money spent there that comes from outside Spain, and increasing numbers of pilgrims mean that all should be well, although tax increases could inflate the price of your cafe con leche a bit. Buen Camino!

 

[peregrina2000]

I know there's been a lot of press lately on the recent developments in Spain's economic crisis, but I thought this segment from today's All Things Considered on NPR was particularly sobering.

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/10/166653449 ... ots-groups

You can listen to it by clicking on the top of the link above the picture or just read by scrolling down.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[marian55]

I sincerely hope that a menu del dia for 7 euros does not mean lower wages for the waiter....
Maybe a more generous tip?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

FYI: They might have 7 Euro menus del dia in Santiago, but you won´t find that price out here where there´s less competition.

There´s been a real upsurge in bargaining and bartering, especially on market days. This weekend I traded a quick translation and document edit for 3 kilos of roasted red peppers!

Reb.

 

[Jubilado]

Pilgrims don't spend much. Where they do, it's mainly along the Francés and for only some months of the year. Welcome of course but I don't imagine that the money is all that important, certainly not for Spain as a whole. And pilgrims dont walk to help people, they walk for the reasons they always did.

 

[alaska99801]

Reading old posts. A little info for some of you that really don't understand economics and much more outside the US. Yes, I'm an American also.
Pilgrims are such a small group and their expenditures minute to be of any consideration in an economy the size of Spain. Remember that Spain is one of the G20 countries. If that means anything to you.
I know that for most US citizens, like myself, the size of foreign economies is not our fortè.

So farmer "John" from Texas, it is not Mexico.

 

[peregrina2000]

I haven't re-read all of these old posts, but I thought I would respond to alaska's recent comments. I think there is no doubt that at a micro level the Camino has made a HUGE impact on the daily lives and economic status of thousands and thousands of Spanish people. Whether it has made an impact on Spain's deficit or gdp or any of those big structural macro things that economists talk about was really not the point of Farmer John's question or the point of many of the other comments. Buen camino, Laurie

and p.s. I don't really get the Texas-Mexico comment, but as a fellow midwesterner will jump in to say that Farmer John is from another one of those "I" states, in this case Iowa.

 

[Tincatinker]

I remember the southwest of England long after the tin ran out and the china clay price slipped below the price of shipping it and we fished out the mackerel for the russian factory ships anchored outside the limit. We had one harvest left, "grockles", 'spose some might call them pilgrims. They kept families in work, in houses and in hope of a future. Strange is that these days most of the people you meet servicing the "grockles" are from Spain and Portugal and Eastern Europe.

I was struck last year on the France's how many of the bars were staffed by young, highly educated, people who had come home to mum and dads', or even gran and grand-pops' bar/comedor/ tienda ' cos they had nowhere else to go. And at least they were keeping that pilgrim's €10 in the family.

Peregrina2000 is right, I am sure, the economic impact of the camino on those who serve us on the Camino is significant, and beneficial. The macro-economic impact? Well, don't be silly. As my old professor used to say.

 

[piogaw]

Hello to our friends from north america,

Yes, we do have a crisis in spain with all the problems like the banking scandal, the corruptions that are common in every levels of government, the cuts in pensions and other benefits, the evictions among others. However i believe the foreign newspapers are exaggerating the situation. The spanish people are a proud and resilient people. Unless you have spent long periods of time in spain, you will not really know how bad or good is the situation here.

The crisis on a daily basis will not affect a typical pilgrimage to the tomb of santiago. So do come to spain, you will always be welcomed with open arms.

Que tengan un buen camino y que dios os bendiga.

 

[StuartM]

I noticed on my recent trip a few things that overtly shocked me. The number of people <25 not working, jobs being advertised on morning tv, the number of "se vende" signs, the very militant grafitti in the mining towns north of the Salvador route.

On the other hand I was genuinely touched by the very sincere kindness being shown to what must be a tiny handful of pilgrims on the route eg a guy stopped his car one sunday and gave me his bread totally out of the blue. That was just one of many examples. Spain has problems for sure but it also has a long tradition of hospitality and national pride. Both on the Salvador and the Frances I saw generosity that you'd never see in comparitively affluent Britain.

The Camino may be small but at least money goes to small, local businesses that really need it rather than big scale tourism where the money goes ultimately to investment companies, banks and the government. I suspect buying a lump of cheese from a stand by the road does more good socially than booking a room in a Hilton does.

 

[gerardcarey]

The man at the side of the pathway selling fruits from a table certainly appreciated our euros.
Both he and his wife had had their pensions cut and their two sons had lost their jobs and come home to live.
The fruit from the family garden contributed to their income, and the story made us purchase a little more than required.
He asked us to give St. James a hug for him.....and to request a change of government.
Twas done.