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I've not done it, but you can switch to the Camino de Invierno at Ponferrada. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/forums/camino-de-invierno.79/
Definitely the suggestion to go by although after A Laxe you'll hit the "crowds" (nothing like on the CF though) from Via de la Plata/Sanabres branch. Beautiful and solitary Camino!!!I've not done it, but you can switch to the Camino de Invierno at Ponferrada. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/forums/camino-de-invierno.79/
Not really true. There are several threads explaining how to manage the few stages that are over 30 km. I managed to find my way from Seville to Astorga without much difficulty.I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
I walked the Camino Frances from StJPdP in 2012. It was my first experience of doing anything even remotely like it & it changed my life...something for which I'll be forever thankful. It is responsible for sending me & many, many others in a whole new direction.Good question. I have noticed changes over the last fourteen years but no commercialism in the way of famous shrines and their souvenir shops and beggars. Every village seems to have a bar now! and there are more pilgrims, sure. Fifteen years ago it was about 100,000 and now it is about 240,000 but it isn't a linked chain of pilgrims, there is still plenty of space - except that the last 100kms in high season has become crazily busy strange indeed!
Is 'busy' a problem? It is after all a pilgrimage, not a hike in the wilderness - personally I love the hugga-mugga of many people moving westwards. If your reasons are spiritual then whether it is busy or empty has no significance as the process is internal, don't you think?
Many sections have been 'upgraded' with concrete paths - hard on the feet, but marvellous if it rains. But you will find that there are two main differences that will strike you I think. Luggage carrying has become common so you will meet or see many walking with no strain, just tiny day packs with a sandwich in them, though most pilgrims seem to still be doing it the old way - and there are many 'holiday' groups now .. all walking together, sometimes with a leader who tells them what to look at (!) and they can appear odd to the solo pilgrim with a pack as they stick together and always seem ultra clean and energetic ... they don't seem to wear into the Camino over time somehow - but - we are all pilgrims.
Another thing that I have noticed that is different to years ago is that then pilgrims just seemed to pick up their old pack and chose clothes fairly suitable for walking and went on Camino but now you will see so many in expensive designer 'hiking' clothing, expensive packs, all their clothing and packs with logos printed on them - it can look quite strange (does to me).
If it were me I would do the Frances as it is the most "pilgrimy" of the Caminos, and this includes the numbers of pilgrims that are there.
The Brierley is the best guide there is, full of informative information, though rather heavy. The negative to the Brierley is that many people see it as a rule book, not a guide book, so they keep to the day stages - regardless of how well or unwell they feel - and this is a mistake as the end of the day stages is where it is most busy - better by far to use it as a guide book and stay your nights in between the stages.
There is a trimmed down 'maps only' version of the guide - thinner, lighter, and therefore possibly preferable to the full guide.
Hope this helps
Buen Camino!
I first walked the CF in 2010, and then most of it again in 2016. There were many obvious changes, but just as many things were much the same. The support infrastructure has improved. There were many more villages with bars, private accommodation options appear to have improved, the pack taxi network appears to be used more regularly, and I met many more people who had booked through a commercial travel company.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years?
Certainly this is an interesting idea. Where do you think you would locate it? Should it be near Santiago so that one can stay there for five or six days and walk around it all day until one gets to 100 km so one qualifies for the Compostela? I know some people who organise ultra distance walking and running events who could offer you a hand on how you would be able to keep track of individuals and what distances they have done.Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not
Is there any way to find out about the Brierley stages (where they start/end) - except to buy the guide? I already have a guidebook, don't really want to buy another ;-).
I walked the CF in sHow has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
I agree with much of what others said. I found plenty of solitude (walked solo) and had others to walk with when I wanted. I will likely walk again in 2020 spring, in 2017, I walked in the fall. I am purposely avoiding 2021, a holy year, I'm concerned that it will be overly crowded that year.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
Your Camino is what you make it.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
On the other hand, these may be the places where all the stuffed-shirt sanctimonious pilgrims stay to avoid having to deal with the hoi polloi.Maybe it's an idea to stay over in the small villages instead of the big ones. Skip the busy towns/albergues and find your peace in the smaller ones. Just an idea
I have one suggestion for the Camino as theme park - slides for the steepest inclines. As they aren't motorized they should be allowed.Certainly this is an interesting idea. Where do you think you would locate it? Should it be near Santiago so that one can stay there for five or six days and walk around it all day until one gets to 100 km so one qualifies for the Compostela? I know some people who organise ultra distance walking and running events who could offer you a hand on how you would be able to keep track of individuals and what distances they have done.
Imagine the benefit of having the concession area run along commercially efficient lines - with lowest common denominator food and beverages served at least cost to the operator. And there would be toilets! No longer any need to litter the trail with toilet paper and engage in unhygienic waste disposal.
Yes, it was crowded, but I had accepted the idea and made the resolution that this would not bother me, that it was part of the experience.
I had no problem with all the shiny new pilgrims after Sarria. They reminded me of myself just a few weeks earlier - full of eager excitement.But, the best advice was what I finally told myself: these are not crowds, they are fellow walkers/pilgrims, individuals, just like me.
How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
...and maybe with an alternate route to avoid those green pilgrims will that start in Syria.
I'm fascinated to read that the bed race was less intense in 2014 than it was in 1992. What time of year did you walk both times?I first walked the Camino Frances in 92 I think. I avoided repeating that Camino for the same reasons that you mentioned. I didn’t want to spoil that memory of that first magical walk. Then in 2014 I joined the Camino Frances at SJPDP after walking about 450 miles on the Arles and Piemonte. ( gorgeous but challenging ).
It was like coming home. The path was almost completely separated from the highways, the choice of beds was much more interesting, the bed race less intense , and the pilgrims still seemed to be the kind of special people that I enjoyed sharing the experience with. I will happily repeat this Camino next spring starting with a few extra miles in France and maybe with an alternate route to avoid those green pilgrims will that start in Syria.
I'm fascinated to read that the bed race was less intense in 2014 than it was in 1992. What time of year did you walk both times?
I found the same on the St Olavs Ways. This year, on the S:t Olavsleden, I didn't need to take off my shoes to count the number of other pilgrims along the way. Once I was at Trondheim, it was another matter. The place quickly filled with pilgrims arriving for the St Olavs feast day festivities.But I do treasure peace and quiet, so I quite enjoyed the Way of St. Francis in Italy last year. We saw less than 40 trekkers over nearly 300 miles.
I found the same on the St Olavs Ways. This year, on the S:t Olavsleden, I didn't need to take off my shoes to count the number of other pilgrims along the way.
Hei Randi: The CF is still a beautiful walk. Just plan accordingly. Difficult maybe, for firsttimers, but we oldtimers know how to avoid the crowds. I am going back after Easter walking from Burgos, I think. I love the peace of the Meseta.I have seen the changes since my first camino in 2005. Been back for several times for long and short walks until 2016. More people, more noise, last year I chose Camino the Invierno, suited me well, met really nobody, peace, quiet.
The VdlP is peaceful and beautiful. It just needs some more planning on the first few stages. Take left in Zamora and go to Ourense; not Astorga.In 2011, walking Via de la Plata, I went via Astorga to see some more women and young people than earlier on the VdlP. Today that would not be my choice.
I'm fascinated to read that the bed race was less intense in 2014 than it was in 1992. What time of year did you walk both times?
My favourite guide book for the CF is still Brierley’s because it feels so familiar, like slipping into old shoesHow has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
Happily, the Camino has a way of crushing, beating, and grinding all the expectations out of people. Which is where the adventure and enlightenment begins!
...Most want lots of value for little money, and are not interested in interacting with the locals or having challenging, strange experiences in new languages. They travel in self-contained groups and stick to what their guidebook tells them to see, eat, and do...
This is what makes me a little sad. So many say their best experience was meeting other pilgrims, who were not from Spain. I see some pilgrims making no effort to say even simple things in Spanish or to make connections with local people. That's a shame.
Here's a picture of the "crowded" Camino Francés
I walked end September and October 2018 from SJPP. Cities were busy as expected but not the villages. I expected crowds from Sarria but that did not happen.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
I think it comes down to what you are looking for.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
The optimist might say you got up early and the rest of the pilgrims as still in bed behind you.Here's a picture of the "crowded" Camino Francés View attachment 50956
You can now buy a faked version of the older style Compostela in Santo Domingo de la Calzada - is that commercialism?How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
I haven't read all of these but enough to see the trend. And I have to say I'm a little put off by the barely-repressed smugness of some of the posts. If you decide to walk a well-known pilgrimage route you should hardly be surprised or disappointed to encounter a large number of pilgrims as well as pilgrim infrastructure. DUH!
I walked CF in July 2018 and many, MANY times I had walked 3-4 hours alone without a person in sight and I am talking about 8 o'clock in the morning or later. Crowds from Triacastella or Sarria. I am walking the whole CF again in July 2019. I have all the books published on CF and the only one that I ever use is Michelins Camino de Santiago because it has perfect maps, size and weight. Cheapest place to buy it is Book depository as they don't charge postage.How has Camino Frances changed in the last 15 years? I walked it then, and am thinking about a repeat walk but wonder if it has gotten touristized and developed. I read that "much general development has taken place and infrastructure for pilgrims has greatly improved" and wonder what that means. Is it still (mostly) a path or dirt road thru countryside? Are the tiny villages still tiny villages? I really enjoyed CF the first time and like the flexibility of distances and the good marking, but if CF feels too much like a theme park now, crowded with package-tour cyclists and commercially led groups of walkers, I'll warily do VDLP instead (warily because of the long daily distances and less reliable markings).
Also, I want to buy a guidebook and wonder which is best. Bierley's looks good via its listings, but some postings say they don't like it because it "defines your stages and tells you where you should stop." Does it not just list all of the auberges etc so that you can decide for yourself when to stop?
Any info or thoughts on CF as theme park-or not, plus which guidebook?
Thanks, Joyce C.
I agree @JillGat, and that is an important point. I did meet great people from all over the world, but also some amazing locals. My Spanish is terrible but I tried and found most locals were very patient and helpful. One great lady we called Mama ran a B&B and treated us like family. Another ran a small hotel in the Meseta and helped everyone coming into town find lodging somewhere. I traded pins with the guy running a little cantina across from the abbey ruins and we talked about what it is like to live in Minnesota. A lady in Burgos grabbed me by the arm and walked me back to the turn I missed. I agree that taking an approach that insulates one from contact with locals is a miss.
An article in The Australian travel section this week quite shocked me. 21 days on the Camino including 200km of walking. Check out the price....and there are many 'holiday' groups now .. all walking together, sometimes with a leader who tells them what to look at (!) and they can appear odd to the solo pilgrim with a pack as they stick together and always seem ultra clean and energetic ... they don't seem to wear into the Camino over time somehow - but - we are all pilgrims.
An article in The Australian travel section this week quite shocked me. 21 days on the Camino including 200km of walking. Check out the price.
“Four departures during the warmer northern months each come with a seasonal highlight: April’s departure has already sold out but limited places remain for May 15 and 29 for the full Spanish summer; August 12 is available to enjoy harvest golds and reds.
Fares, including flights from Australia (optional), start at $24,900 per person, twin share, economy class (solo traveller supplement: $2400).
Large numbers need a large font!Sorry about the huge font.
I copied aand pasted!
Captain's Choice Camino 2019. Their lovely brochure is here http://fliphtml5.com/omnq/awpz/basic. They spend one night in the Frank Gehry / Marquès de Risqual hotel, with Michelin restaurant. Prices for a room at this hotel start around 460 € and can easily reach 800 € in April and May 2019 when they travel. 1 tour manager and 1 tour host (one of which is a doctor) and 2 specialist Camino guides for history, culture and anecdotes.would love to have the link to their company or advert so I can read the whole thing!!
This is what makes me a little sad. So many say their best experience was meeting other pilgrims, who were not from Spain. I see some pilgrims making no effort to say even simple things in Spanish or to make connections with local people. That's a shame.
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