Is the Camino too crowded now?

[dandagenais]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

 

[Bradypus]

Numbers receiving Compostelas - the only reasonably solid statistic - have roughly doubled since 2013. That doesn't feel like such an enormous jump to me since it looks like the final total this year will be 90x or even 100x the figure for the year of my first Camino. That ship sailed many years ago...

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed

People do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.

Also, if you want to form your opinions based on what you read on the Internet then life will be a disappointment for you.

 

[J Willhaus]

It is more crowded during certain times of the year and things have certainly changed. There are many more bag transport companies and probably more infrastructure than when you walked in 2013. Lots more people walking supported with bag transfers and are not opposed to taking a bus or cab here and there. There are more tour companies and ways of reserving rooms. Private rooms seem to be a premium now, too. Everything is also a bit more expensive. On the other hand, if you chose to walk flexibly and during a less busy season, I think you will be fine. Frankly the end of May or sometime in June is a less busy time than April, early May, or September. Late July and August you will find more Spanish people as it is school holiday and summer holiday time.

We've walked the last two years in June and July segments of the Camino Frances and have never been stressed about finding a room. My husband also walked in September and October of 2021 when beds were restricted and only had a tough time on the National Holiday Oct. 12. We are volunteer hospitaleros so maybe that gives us an advantage as we know how to manage when things do get pretty busy by either slowing down, speeding up, or stopping at the in-between places. You do need to watch holiday and bridge weekends as there will be more people walking and traveling in general during that time. Many people find a lot of competition for beds with a traditional start in St. Jean until at least Pamplona.

You can of course gauge for yourself and make a change to another route if you find the CF too crowded.

 

[dandagenais]

People do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.

Also, if you want to form your opinions based on what you read on the Internet then life will be a disappointment for you.

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

 

[dandagenais]

It is more crowded during certain times of the year and things have certainly changed. There are many more bag transport companies and probably more infrastructure than when you walked in 2013. Lots more people walking walking supported with bag transfers and are not opposed to taking a bus or cab here and there. There are more tour companies and ways of reserving rooms. Private rooms seem to be a premium now, too. Everything is also a bit more expensive. On the other hand, if you chose to walk flexibly and during a less busy season, I think you will be fine. Frankly the end of May or sometime in June is a less busy time than April, early May, or September. Late July and August you will find more Spanish people as it is school holiday and summer holiday time.

We've walked the last two years in June and July segments of the Camino Frances and have never been stressed about finding a room. My husband also walked in September and October of 2021 when beds were restricted and only had a tough time on the National Holiday Oct. 12. We are volunteer hospitaleros so maybe that gives us an advantage as we know how to manage when things do get pretty busy by either slowing down, speeding up, or stopping at the in-between places. You do need to watch holiday and bridge weekends as there will be more people walking and traveling in general during that time. Many people find a lot of competition for beds with a traditional start in St. Jean until at least Pamplona.

You can of course gauge for yourself and make a change to another route if you find the CF too crowded.

Excellent comment! Thank you. Makes sense...

 

[MikeJS]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

Just avoid the Frances. I walked alone on the Camino Madrid/Olvidado in sept.

 

[Brooklinn]

Hello Fellow pilgrim,
I walked the Frances in June/July of 2013, September 2021, and June/July 2023 starting in SJPP. The magic has survived the passage of time!
Here are the a few significant changes I experienced:
-the official route changed here and there with more variant options (which was a bit disconcerting because I wanted to walk the same route as 2013, but these sections are now sometimes the alternative route),
-Those whips of trees planted ten years ago actually provide shade along the way now.
-Some places have closed, but others have opened.
-Cleanliness has improved, most Albergues have provided more space between beds, more private room options
-more infrastucture, more graffiti, more elders walking.
-a couple places to get snacks and drinks on the longest section of the Meseta
-The cost of everything significantly jumped between 2022 and 2023.
We walked most mornings in solitude as we left at dawn and overall even throughout the day. Sure, there are bottlenecks now and then but that happened in 2013 as well. Both times Pilgrims pass with a “Buen Camino” and a smile. The way never felt crowded, although we would see familiar faces coming into villages and towns. In 2023 I booked ahead when wanting private rooms but our friend rarely booked ahead and often found better accommodation for cheaper than we did. There seemed to always be empty beds at albergues, particularly off the typical stops. From Sarria we saw large student groups but stayed off the typical stops, let their joyous groups pass, and all was well. We booked one day out from Sarria on. Booking.com does not represent the true amount of accommodations available. You can get better results and prices calling directly. Be aware of Spanish holidays and festivals to avoid issues finding rooms.
In closing, everything changes over time, but much was the same as well…the delight of sunrises, the smiles and kindness of the Spanish people, the rhythm of walking, the treacherous trail after Cruz de Ferro, the calls of greetings from fellow pilgrims, the ease of new friendships, the awe of Cathedrals, the beauty of the meseta, the meditative washing of clothes, the sinking into bed fully exhausted, the unexpected little miracles. Most importantly, it still felt magical!

 

[C clearly]

it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

No question about this. It is arguable whether this is a good thing (more people out walking, participating in the cultural experience, finding facilities they need) or a bad thing (less of a introspective experience, less of a niche experience for those of us who got to it early, etc.) In a post above, @Brooklinn just provided a very positive view of some of the differences.

I think we need to accept that the Camino Frances, the Portugues, and probably a few others that end in Santiago, will have a lot of people and infrastructure during the popular seasons. November to March would not be crowded. Furthermore, most of the Camino Frances is never crowded. Accounts here on the forum indicate that it is still possible to have a relaxed Camino with a good balance of people and space if you avoid a few pinch points and weeks.

There are thousands of km of Camino-marked paths in Spain that are not over-populated.

As an example, I walked over 600 km on the Lana in May-June 2023, mostly with one companion. We did not encounter a single other pilgrim walking. (For full disclosure: we did encounter about 4 cyclists going in the opposite direction.) Like other less popular routes, that route has its disadvantages - fewer lodging options in a few stages, not many convenient cafes for second breakfast (or even first breakfast) - but you cannot have all the comforts/benefits without some corresponding discomforts. That is what makes an adventure - getting out of one's comfort zone, both literally and figuratively.

 

[NYSE]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I just finished up the Camino Portuguese from Lisbon to SdeC, Finisterre and Muxia. I walked one day with another pilgrim in 30 and rarely saw anyone except at night. Choose that path that suits your desires.

 

[MickMac]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

Walked the Camino Frances in August 2013 and every year bar Covid and this year Finisterre.
Off course there has been changes some good some not so good.
As you well know the one constant is your fellow pilgrims and the unique friendships that sustain us throughout, that has not changed one iota.

 

[David Tallan]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

My first Camino was 1989. It is certainly a lot easier to choose where to sleep now than it was then! A lot more crowded, too (at least, the Frances is). But I like other pilgrims. That's a plus for me. More pilgrims, over time, brings more infrastructure and support. And visa versa.

Comparing to 1989 might not be the comparison you are looking for. I could compare to 2016, when I next walked the Frances. There are also more pilgrims now than then. But the difference is not nearly so noticeable. In 2016 there were something like thirty times as many pilgrims as my previous Camino. Now there is something like one and a third times as many pilgrims as in 2016.

Of course, as you say, it does depend a lot on where and you walk. This June I walked the Camino de Madrid. It was a lovely Camino and would be an excellent choice if you wanted something a lot closer to the Camino of 1989. But I wouldn't have minded seeing a few more fellow pilgrims.

In July, I walked on the Primitivo including the last 50 km where it merges with the Frances. The most crowded section of the most crowded Camino at the most crowded time of the year. It wasn't too crowded for me and I had no trouble finding a bed. I was staying off stage, though. The people I had been walking with on the Primitivo were staying on stage, though, and they didn't seem to have problems finding a bed either.

So, in summary, I don't find it too much of a problem. If you want the experience of yesteryear, it is available on some of the lesser walked Caminos. Although they also tend to come with the fewer accommodations options of yesteryear. But the Frances is still a doable and rewarding experience at any time of the year. I know, however, that not everyone whose first Camino was in my epoch shares my opinion on this.

 

[Tincatinker]

Crowded? As in everyone flocks there for the peace and solitude. Or no one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.

Despite the tales of no beds on Berking.con, queues for that vital cafe con leche and even mobs of drunken yobs singing “Camino, Camino, Camino” my impression is that the Camino can cope. Whether the pilgrim can cope is of course a different question

 

[Robo]

I spent only 3 days on the Frances this year, from Astorga to Ponferrada, bridging between two other 'less popular' routes.

Was it much more crowded than previous times in 2015, 2016 and 2018? Yes.
Was it so crowded I could not find a bed? No
Did it detract from my Camino? No.
Would I have wanted to be part of a crowd like that all the way from St Jean? No I don't think so.
Did I still enjoy it? YES

I think if I was to walk the Frances again for any reasonable length, I would just be careful to pick the time of year, and make sure to use all those strategies like, leave early, stay at mid points, etc etc.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

No judgement, I guess that you didn't understand my point.

Are you still the same person that you were ten years ago?

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I guess that if you would rather have something useful.....

Your title is "Is the Camino too crowded?"

There isn't only one Camino and so there is no way of answering your question. Recently, some of the shorter Caminos have hugely increased in numbers, some lesser known and longer Caminos have had small increases and the Camino Frances from SJPdP has decreased in numbers.

Then, of course, comes the value judgement.

What might be "too crowded" to you could equally be "just right" to someone else.

For me, the joy of being able to walk some of the many Caminos in Spain is that there is such a wide choice of options in terms of different Caminos, different alternatives within a Camino, different stopping points and different choices of types of accommodation that I am able to design a Camino that suits me just fine and for me it looks like it will stay that way for a few more years yet.

 

[Robo]

There isn't only one Camino and so there is no way of answering your question. Recently, some of the shorter Caminos have hugely increased in numbers, some lesser known and longer Caminos have had small increases and the Camino Frances from SJPdP has decreased in numbers.

Key point! There are some routes that are likely to never ever be crowded. I hope........

 

[good_old_shoes]

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

Not necessarily. If you walk in may, the part from Le Puy - Conques can feel very crowded, even though numbers are lower than on the Francés.

That's because there might be less walkers, but there is also less infrastructure, much less beds, so competition for those can be high during the may holidays, when many french pilgrims and hikers go for a scenic walk in the most beautiful section of the podiensis. Many of them have pre-booked their whole tour months before, and since "walk in only" gites are not really a thing, that can make it very complicated for those who don't want to pre-book (I use the many, many campsites and self-cater, so that's not a problem for me).

I absolutely love the way from Le Puy, it's gorgeous, but despite less pilgrims in numbers, I find it to be more commercial than the Francés, to be honest (not a popular opinion, probably).

If you want a truly lonely walk, try walking from Trier, Germany, to Cluny. After Langres I didn't meet a single pilgrim until Cluny, I think. I really recommend the way from Cluny to Le Puy - good infrastructure, few pilgrims, didn't feel too commercial.

The Francés will Always be my favourite, though.

For me, personally, just because there are many pilgrims on the Francés, it doesn't mean it's lacking opportunity for introspection or that it is less meaningful now as a pilgrim's way.

Introspection comes from the INSIDE, not the outside, and I can have a walking meditation in a crowd or along a highway through an industrial area just like when walking all alone through the countryside. Maybe even more.

For me, meeting so many people from all over the world and so many different backgrounds is a giant opportunity for learning new things, seeing things from a different perspective. The social factor is important for me on the Camino, so I don't mind that there are actually other pilgrims (just like me!). The atmosphere is also important, and for me the Francés has the most "pilgrimage" feeling to me, still, because of many factors.

For reference, I haven't walked in 2013, but my first Francés was in 2015. The last one so far '22.

Only crowds were from Sarria and in Pamplona during San Fermin, and july '19 the Camino was in some parts so empty I sometimes walked alone for hours.

Just to give another perspective, apart from numbers.

 

[JillGat]

I walked the Frances in spring 2016 (end of May, through June) and then in fall, 2018 (I think?). There seemed to be a lot more people in the fall. I preferred the spring for a variety of reasons (green fields, red poppies and other flowers, sun earlier in the morning, storks...) I never had a problem finding a bed; I think you have a huge advantage if you walk alone... it's a lot easier to find one bed than even two most places. Both times I was on the CF I often had the whole path to myself as far back and as far beyond as I could see for hours. When there were big groups of people I either sped up (and passed the cafes where they were stopped) or I stopped and let them pass. Personally, I don't mind lots of small groups of people, but I get really stressed when there are large tour groups dominating the scene. That is something I do lament. Sometimes I booked ahead a day, but mostly I decided as I walked where I'd like to stop. I met lots of very interesting people from all over the world and had very nice chats with elderly local people in small villages who seem very happy to have all these walkers livening up the scene. I still think the Frances is fantastic; moving through all the different cultural, linguistic, architectural, flora/fauna/weather zones on FOOT is just magic. I'm sure it's changed since I walked but the history is still there. The natural environment through forests and along vineyards is still there. What an amazing experience. No wonder so many people want to do it!

 

[JesperK]

This is one of those very old discussions. When I walked my first in 2013 there were also discussions about too many pilgrims. This year I walked mid sep to mid oct like I did in 2016, and there were definitely fewer people this year - or maybe I just hit in between the waves. I had many days where I walked hours with maybe just a couple of pilgrims in sight. Hospital del orbigo were more or less empty this year while in 2016 we were all falling over eachother. Perspective friends -

 

[Bradypus]

The numbers only seem to be growing larger. After previous Holy Years there has been a significant drop in numbers for the following year. Not so this time. A local news website notes a new record number of Compostelas issued during October. It is also noteworthy that last year's all time annual record total of just over 438,000 Compostelas looks set to be broken within the next few days with two months of the year still to go. The total is already over 432,000.

El Camino bate un nuevo récord: más de 52.000 peregrinos en el mejor mes de octubre de la historia

Mejora la marca del año pasado y dispara el acumulado de 2023 a más de 430.000 compostelas

www.elcorreogallego.es

 

[Former member 104756]

Hi @dandagenais

I too walked the Frances in 2013 and earlier. After 10 years and many other Caminos, I was very recently back on the path, until injury got in the way. We chose October to avoid the busiest times of year. Sure, a lot has changed - I found it visually 'cluttered' for one thing - but many things hadn't changed.

If you are drawn to the Frances, perhaps consider November as you did in 2013, or even later/earlier. One of the more recent threads that has stayed with me is this one from Jeremy @ieremv - who walked the Frances in January this year. Some of his posts took me back to my first time on that path in 2011, albeit a different season. This thread includes a link to his blog. His was a wonderful journey.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/winter-walking-my-journey-along-the-camino-frances.78269/

PS I love the Camino Le Puy (Podeinsis) but I don't think it's better, just different. And it can also feel crowded in some parts, depending on the time of year. But that's another topic.

Best wishes.

 

[Bradypus]

If you are drawn to the Frances, perhaps consider November as you did in 2013, or even later/earlier. One of the more recent threads that has stayed with me is this one from Jeremy @ieremv - who walked the Frances in January this year. Some of his posts took me back to my first time on that path in 2011.

I walked the Camino Frances from SJPDP in January this year. A totally different experience from a peak season walk. On some days I met no other walkers at all. At times it was like being back in 1990 but much colder and with much better accommodation!

 

[Maple Leaf Walker]

Having done multiple Caminos myself, the less I compare each to the one before, the more I’ve enjoyed myself. Might be worth pondering why an experience has to be just like before (e.g., not too busy, found a bed, weather good, lots of nice people, etc.) to feel satisfied. Comparison really is the thief of joy.

 

[AnaRosario]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

Hello yes I walked the Francés in 2018 and compared to this year, It was a ghost town. this year was very packed but it was still my camino. I did it my way.. I could connect or not. I was looking forward to the same experience that I had in 2018 and guess what it never ever happened but I enjoyed this Camino, if not more so, for a totally different reason

 

[mike105]

I started the Levante 2 years ago around this time and it was empty. I think we met 2 other pilgrims. So there are empty routes for those finding the Frances too crowded.
There is a good Yogi Berra quote that applies here..."no one walks that route anymore, it's too crowded"...lol

 

[Felice]

I walked the Frances in Sept 2014 and loved it so much that I decided against rewalking it straight away in case some of 'the magic' of my first walk went away. So I walked a whole series of other walks, including the Podienses, and thoroughly enjoyed them all. I was finally ready to rewalk the Frances in May 2020, and was going to go all the way from SJPP to Santiago in one go, but those plans came to nothing.

In Nov 2022, on the spur of the moment, I took a week and walked from SJPP to Pamplona. It was wonderful, everything that I remembered and valued about my first camino was there.

In mid May 2023, I continued my walk for a couple of weeks, from Pamplona to Grañon. Having taken note of all the posts on the forum, I booked in advance as I wanted to stay in the lovely old towns of Puente, Estella, Los Arcos and Viaña. I've no idea if I really needed to book or not. The walk was busy and had it not been for the fantastic wild flowers this spring, I might have decided not to bother to continue. I'm not sure what was different, but I did not get the same buzz that I did in November or 2014.

Then in mid Sept 2023, I continued on from Grañon to Leon. No booking ahead this time, I decided to have faith and I was amply rewarded. No problems with beds, and indeed some lovely lodgings that booking.com said were full that night. And I met so many lovely people; every day I had a meaningful conversation with at least one person. The camino did not feel crowded either.

Walk the Frances again. It will be different. Go with an open mind. And I'd suggest that you stay off stage unless you want to revisit somewhere in particular.

 

[Bradypus]

Having done multiple Caminos myself, the less I compare each to the one before, the more I’ve enjoyed myself. Might be worth pondering why an experience has to be just like before (e.g., not too busy, found a bed, weather good, lots of nice people, etc.) to feel satisfied. Comparison really is the thief of joy.

I don't think that one experience has to be just like the one before to be enjoyable. But after trying a number of different experiences over a long period I think that many people including myself do get a feel for what they actively enjoy and what they would rather avoid. And so choose their routes and times accordingly. My first Camino Frances and my most recent one were separated by 33 years. In 1990 about 5,000 people walked the Camino Frances (which was the only marked Camino at the time). I walked the Camino Frances again this January and September in a year when already 212,000+ have walked at least the final 100km of the Frances. Am I really expected to regard those two experiences as equivalent and to have no particular preference between the two? I am a fairly solitary person by nature and I generally seek out quieter routes and seasons for my long distance walking. I have walked long distance pilgrim routes in the UK, France, Switzerland, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Norway and Japan so I don't think I can fairly be accused of being unusually insular in my practice. I would suggest that someone not expressing unequivocal joy at the current situation on the Camino Frances in peak season is not necessarily a symptom of a closed mind!

 

[Isabelpilgrim]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I walked this past August and September, part was the Primitivo, so really not crowded, I was alone most of the time, and walked into Santiago de Compostela completely alone from Monte de Gozo, even though a lot of albergues were full. I think you can walk around the crowds if you want. I try to look at the increase as a good thing if more people experience a change in perspective in their lives.

 

[Bothydave]

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

Yes but as said above the infrastructure has increased too.

 

[NicP]

I walked this year, in mid- March to mid-April on the Frances, and in May 2016 on the VDLP to Astorga, then the from there Frances to SdC. It was only “too busy” for me from Sarria, and that was my fault for arriving in Sarria at the beginning of Semana Santa. I really like other pilgrims, and up until Sarria, I was happy to see them and didn’t feel that it was too crowded, it was a great experience. Whilst I would be careful to avoid Sarria to SdC again during Semana Santa, I’m considering returning, at least to walk the first half of the Frances, in summer…. But perhaps I’ll take the Primitivo or Invierno in to Santiago in order to find a quieter route on the last part of Santiago.

 

[Isabelpilgrim]

I walked the Frances in spring 2016 (end of May, through June) and then in fall, 2018 (I think?). There seemed to be a lot more people in the fall. I preferred the spring for a variety of reasons (green fields, red poppies and other flowers, sun earlier in the morning, storks...) I never had a problem finding a bed; I think you have a huge advantage if you walk alone... it's a lot easier to find one bed than even two most places. Both times I was on the CF I often had the whole path to myself as far back and as far beyond as I could see for hours. When there were big groups of people I either sped up (and passed the cafes where they were stopped) or I stopped and let them pass. Personally, I don't mind lots of small groups of people, but I get really stressed when there are large tour groups dominating the scene. That is something I do lament. Sometimes I booked ahead a day, but mostly I decided as I walked where I'd like to stop. I met lots of very interesting people from all over the world and had very nice chats with elderly local people in small villages who seem very happy to have all these walkers livening up the scene. I still think the Frances is fantastic; moving through all the different cultural, linguistic, architectural, flora/fauna/weather zones on FOOT is just magic. I'm sure it's changed since I walked but the history is still there. The natural environment through forests and along vineyards is still there. What an amazing experience. No wonder so many people want to do it!

Most of my contact this year was with a largish tour group. I enjoyed having someone to talk to, some days I had no conversations at all.

 

[JudyWanaWander]

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.

 

[Jimmy Duggan]

I cycled the French Camino in July this year from SJPDP to Finisterre . The only room I booked ahead was before I left for my first night in SJPDP . Not once did I have a problem getting a bed at the first place I tried every evening and the whole trip was brilliant meeting wonderful people all along my travels so much so that I hope to do it again next year just stop at different locations .

 

[David Tallan]

I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.

Please tell me you are not judging the judgers. ;-)

 

[Rebekah Scott]

An answer to your initial question: If you really like hot weather, and you don't want a bed-race, come to the Camino Frances in July or August. In the last three years there's been a dip in the number of people using the municipal albergues, as most of the book-ahead crowd walk in the spring or fall and/or don't use municipals. You'll get a bed if you walk earlier in the day.

The hard thing about revisiting a really meaningful experience/place is the inevitable comparisons. Every Camino is unique, and the first one is really pretty incomparable! Try to shed your expectations quick as you can after arriving, and you won't be disappointed.

 

[trecile]

I had been thinking that 2024 would be my year for the Via de la Plata, but I think that I'm going to walk the Francés again (probably starting on the Aragonés). While on the Primitivo this year I was missing the ease of the Francés, and the many little towns to stop in along the way for a café con leche or a bathroom break. The Francés is the easiest Camino to "wing it" on, since there is such good infrastructure. I felt like I had to do a lot more planning on the Norte, Primitivo and other routes that I've walked.

 

[JillGat]

I had been thinking that 2024 would be my year for the Via de la Plata, but I think that I'm going to walk the Francés again (probably starting on the Aragonés). While on the Primitivo this year I was missing the ease of the Francés, and the many little towns to stop in along the way for a café con leche or a bathroom break. The Francés is the easiest Camino to "wing it" on, since there is such good infrastructure. I felt like I had to do a lot more planning on the Norte, Primitivo and other routes that I've walked.

Oh good, I can't wait to hear about it! When are you planning to go?

 

[Bradypus]

The Francés is the easiest Camino to "wing it" on, since there is such good infrastructure. I felt like I had to do a lot more planning on the Norte, Primitivo and other routes that I've walked.

That's really the basis of the vicious/virtuous circle that has driven the explosion of numbers on the Frances. The first few years of the revival of the Camino Frances in the 1980s and early 1990s saw slow growth partly because the pilgrim infrastructure was sparse and very irregular. What pilgrim services existed were mostly ad hoc voluntary projects and often donativo. Numbers walking could not have justified larger and more costly investment on a commercial basis. The very deliberate effort to promote the 1993 Holy Year and Galicia's building of the first chain of purpose built albergues was a bold and risky initiative which has proved spectacularly successful. People now choose to walk the Frances because it has such a wide range of services. And the large numbers who walk the Frances now make further investment in it to provide new infrastructure a financially viable proposition. The Portugues may soon rival the Frances in that respect. Other routes are unlikely to match their appeal without substantial speculative investment with a very long term view.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I walked the Frances in 2013.

One of mine was in 2014, and IMO the more the merrier !!

It seems so crowded and almost commercial like.

People have been saying that for decades.

I was given garage floor sleeping space on my 2005 by an elderly priest in France, who seemed terribly dismissive -- I was just happy to be safe and with a roof over my head.

He invited me to breakfast in the morning, and I was astonished to see his Presbytery full of Compostela memorabilia.

It turns out he had walked his Camino in the 1950s, and viewed all of these modern pilgrims as being no good compared to what the Camino should be.

So when I explained that I was often sleeping outdoors -- as he had done -- and that my 1994 from Paris was pretty much in the same conditions as his 1950s, he did have the grace to look chastened, pleased, and more sympathetic.

"More" crowded and commercial is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think it changes what the Camino is in essence.

 

[HeatherL]

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

Reading comments. I agree. My second time on the Frances in April this year and compared to 2019 was far busier. IMO, and yes to all who read this, I can have an opinion, I felt it had become a sporting event for some and something to cross of the bucket list. The bed race was very real having to leave places very early in the mornings in the hope of getting a bed. I stopped walking at Burgos simply because I was unable to secure accommodation in places ahead of me and I wasn't about to start the Meseta just hoping that I could find somewhere to sleep. Maybe caused by an influx in Burgos just at that time. I enjoyed my second experience on the Frances in 2023 but no regrets. Life doesn't always pan out as you anticipate. I became a tourist and headed up to the North coast for 3 weeks. Had a fabulous time in Spain, I love the country.

 

[Caminogoat]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I walked el Norte in October and saw less than 20 pilgrims the entire time. When I switched to Camino do Mar from Ribadeo, I only saw 2 pilgrims in Ribadeo then none afterward! Pilgrims were so rarely seen, that I turned goats´ and cows´ heads.

 

[JustJack]

One anecdote - I walked the CF last May/June, an apparently busy period. And even on the final 100km into Santiago I was able to spend many hours walking all alone, often without another pilgrim in sight, simply by staying in between the more popular stages. The crowds come and go, they aren't a constant thing, as people spread out as they're walking. I would sometimes stop and let pilgrims pass me, and within a few minutes I'd be alone again.

 

[Robo]

I walked el Norte in October and saw less than 20 pilgrims the entire time. When I switched to Camino do Mar from Ribadeo, I only saw 2 pilgrims in Ribadeo then none afterward! Pilgrims were so rarely seen, that I turned goats´ and cows´ heads.

That's an element of the VdlP that I loved.
Walking through the fields of livestock.

I had a whole herd of cows with calves come to look me up and down. About 20 of them.
Of course if I stepped toward them, they backed off, but it was a lovely moment to pause and just check each other out.

 

[FourSeasons]

My first was also in 2013, September/October. A lovely time indeed. Go in the summer, I did in 2019 and found plenty beds until Sarria, forget about it. I’ve walked three Camino’s thus far and my last one in 2019 was in the Summer. I had never booked a room until I reached Sarria that year. My next Camino I plan to walk up to Sarria then take a train to Santiago. No hurt feelings if I don’t get another Compostela. I’d rather have peace in my heart than a piece of paper. Oh I’m planning my fourth for August 2024 on the Frances, perhaps you should too.
Buen Camino!
Leaving Sarria

 

[JabbaPapa]

I'd say that until you've walked from Santiago to Sarria, you don't know what a crowded Camino is like ...

 

[Pathfinder075]

I sat on the seats under the roofed area, up the road from the convent albergue in Sarria about four weeks back, while trying to come up with a plan for myself (torn ligament after crossing O Cebreiro) and while I sat there I counted pilgrims wandering past. At 1000 I gave up and they were still going past. Is there enough accommodation for 1000+ in Portomarin? I don't know the answer to that question, but if it keeps increasing beyond this level, there may well be a serious problem in 5-10 years with available beds, assuming there isn't one now.

My plan in the end (in case any wondered), was to get the train/bus to Ourense and spend some time in the hot springs for a few days, which i did.

 

[trecile]

Is there enough accommodation for 1000+ in Portomarin?

I counted about 30 albergues, pensiones, and hotels in Portomarín on Gronze. Plus there are several small towns before and after.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Probably fine then. I haven't been through there since 2016 and probably never will in the future. I much prefer the routes from Ferrol and Ourense.

 

[Berylann]

Hello Fellow pilgrim,
I walked the Frances in June/July of 2013, September 2021, and June/July 2023 starting in SJPP. The magic has survived the passage of time!
Here are the a few significant changes I experienced:
-the official route changed here and there with more variant options (which was a bit disconcerting because I wanted to walk the same route as 2013, but these sections are now sometimes the alternative route),
-Those whips of trees planted ten years ago actually provide shade along the way now.
-Some places have closed, but others have opened.
-Cleanliness has improved, most Albergues have provided more space between beds, more private room options
-more infrastucture, more graffiti, more elders walking.
-a couple places to get snacks and drinks on the longest section of the Meseta
-The cost of everything significantly jumped between 2022 and 2023.
We walked most mornings in solitude as we left at dawn and overall even throughout the day. Sure, there are bottlenecks now and then but that happened in 2013 as well. Both times Pilgrims pass with a “Buen Camino” and a smile. The way never felt crowded, although we would see familiar faces coming into villages and towns. In 2023 I booked ahead when wanting private rooms but our friend rarely booked ahead and often found better accommodation for cheaper than we did. There seemed to always be empty beds at albergues, particularly off the typical stops. From Sarria we saw large student groups but stayed off the typical stops, let their joyous groups pass, and all was well. We booked one day out from Sarria on. Booking.com does not represent the true amount of accommodations available. You can get better results and prices calling directly. Be aware of Spanish holidays and festivals to avoid issues finding rooms.
In closing, everything changes over time, but much was the same as well…the delight of sunrises, the smiles and kindness of the Spanish people, the rhythm of walking, the treacherous trail after Cruz de Ferro, the calls of greetings from fellow pilgrims, the ease of new friendships, the awe of Cathedrals, the beauty of the meseta, the meditative washing of clothes, the sinking into bed fully exhausted, the unexpected little miracles. Most importantly, it still felt magical!

Words of wisdom and kind encouragement

 

[spwalker]

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I walked the Francés in August-October. I didn't find it excessively crowded until Sarría; getting used to the crowds thereafter took a couple of days. I certainly got the feeling that this final stretch of the Camino was commercialised - a money- making machine for the Catholic Church. But, of course, also, a decent living for the businesses nearby the Camino route.

 

[Bradypus]

I certainly got the feeling that this final stretch of the Camino was commercialised - a money- making machine for the Catholic Church.

I'm not a great fan of the commercial development of the Camino Frances in recent years. But in fairness I think that very little of the money-making is for the Church's benefit. What profitable enterprises along the Camino in that final stretch are church-run?

 

[Tincatinker]

In reality its the "pagans" that make the money. By the way thats "pagan" as in country dweller, not the "urbanos" of the cities

Sad to see that @spwalker seems to think that the camino, and especially the camino in Galicia, has anything to do with the Catholic Church. If you want to know who is in charge and where the money goes search Xunta Galicia and Turismo de Galicia.

I think the days of the church "reminding" people of the "needs" to be considered are long gone

 

[JabbaPapa]

Sad to see that @spwalker seems to think that the camino, and especially the camino in Galicia, has anything to do with the Catholic Church.

No Catholic Church and not only no Compostela certificate, but also no history, no point, and no purpose for the pilgrimage on this Way of Saint James.

And given that the Church is the Congregation of the Faithful, and in this case a particular mobile Foot Congregation, I'm unsure what's "sad" about the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James on their pilgrimages.

 

[spwalker]

What profitable enterprises along the Camino in that final stretch are church-run?

I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...

Oh...also the Botafumeiro.

 

[Tincatinker]

No Catholic Church and not only no Compostela certificate, but also no history, no point, and no purpose for the pilgrimage on this Way of Saint James.

And given that the Church is the Congregation of the Faithful, and in this case a particular mobile Foot Congregation, I'm unsure what's "sad" about the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James on their pilgrimages.

Oops, just re-read my post and realized how appallingly phrased it was. I thing my keyboard thought we were in the usual situation of a Saturday afternoon burble in the Star and that everyone would realize I was referring to the commercialization of Camino and the idea that there was any way in which the Church, let alone the Congregation of the Faith might financially benefit from some poor old secular pilgrim.

 

[trecile]

I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...

Oh...also the Botafumeiro.

How so? The Compostela is free, and the distance certificate costs only 3€. Not a princely sum.

 

[Bradypus]

I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...

The Compostela is issued free of charge. There is a fairly modest charge for the distance certificate if someone really feels they need one. Both of these pieces of paper are of course entirely optional - I haven't asked for either at the end of my more recent Caminos.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...

What, €2 per Camino ? That's beyond cynical,

Oh...also the Botafumeiro.

... which is financed privately.

The Compostela is issued free of charge.

No, the €2 charge for each credencial finances it.

 

[Kathar1na]

I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...
Oh...also the Botafumeiro.

I would not call it cynical.

Others have already pointed out that the Compostela is free. We don’t know how many Distance Certificates are issued at €3 a pop every year and therefore cannot work out what a roaring business it is. I think that they introduced the Distance Certificate some ten years ago or so because pilgrims wanted to see a certification of their kilometers on paper. It was created upon popular demand.

Your comment may cause a bit of an uproar in this thread. If so it will be nothing compared to the uproar if the Distance Certificate were to abolished and the Botafumeiro would swing only on the 12 (or so) liturgical days of the year when it always swings without the required donation from the faithful and/or from the curious.

 

[spwalker]

How so? The Compostela is free, and the distance certificate costs only 3€. Not a princely sum.

300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros

 

[Bradypus]

No, the €2 charge for each credencial finances it.

I stand corrected! Perhaps I should have used the phrase used for our NHS - "free at the point of delivery"!

 

[trecile]

300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros

But that's not profit. There is the cost of the paper, ink, the overhead costs of the Pilgrim's Office, etc.

 

[JabbaPapa]

300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros

And what do you think the yearly running costs are for the Pilgrims Office ?

Think the Camino is a scam ?

Fine.

Then stay home and avoid it ?

 

[SabsP]

300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros

Ah come on! You can't be serious? 3 € is the equivalent of two coffees in Spain.
In many other countries that amount is hardly enough to get yourself one coffee.
Like others already wrote : electricity, heating, paper etc...

If I did not know better I would think you are trolling. Shaking head in bewilderment!

 

[spwalker]

And what do you think the yearly running costs are for the Pilgrims Office ?

Think the Camino is a scam ?

Fine.

Then stay home and avoid it ?

I certainly don't think it's a scam - I thoroughly enjoyed doing it. I was just musing on the commercial possibilities.

 

[Kathar1na]

I was just musing on the commercial possibilities.

But do you know anything about it that would be interesting in this context and goes beyond the cliché of the “greedy church”? Some of us would be interested to learn something, I am sure. We all can do a multiplication of two factors and make an estimate or guesstimate about some income and see a sum that looks big. What about cost and where the money goes, do you know anything about it? Staff, volunteers and their accommodation, “acogido al peregrino”, the ACC services …. I‘m just curious to hear what you can share in concrete terms.

 

[Bradypus]

I've just been having a chat with Johnnie Walker who as some of you will know lives in Santiago, was managing the pilgrim office at the time of the introduction of the distance certificate, and who keeps in touch with some of the pilgrim office staff. Johnnie has given me his permission to repeat the gist of his comments here. I have no personal interest in the pilgrim office and its work and in fact I think it unlikely I will ask for a Compostela in future. And I am in no way an apologist for the Catholic church. But I think that it is only fair that the position is realistically stated.

The pilgrim welcome centre is very far from being a money-spinner for the Catholic church. In fact it has relied on a substantial grant from the government Xacobeo (Camino promotion) agency since 1993 to meet its costs. The income from the sale of credencials, distance certificates and so on only covers about half of the annual running costs of the centre. The centre employs up to 20 staff plus security. They need to be paid. There are also costs involved in housing the many volunteers. Plus the costs associated with running the buildings. The idea that the pilgrim office is a profitable enterprise for the Church is very far from the truth.

 

[spwalker]

I've just been having a chat with Johnnie Walker who as some of you will know lives in Santiago, was managing the pilgrim office at the time of the introduction of the distance certificate, and who keeps in touch with some of the pilgrim office staff. Johnnie has given me his permission to repeat the gist of his comments here. I have no personal interest in the pilgrim office and its work and in fact I think it unlikely I will ask for a Compostela in future. And I am in no way an apologist for the Catholic church. But I think that it is only fair that the position is realistically stated.

The pilgrim welcome centre is very far from being a money-spinner for the Catholic church. In fact it has relied on a substantial grant from the government Xacobeo (Camino promotion) agency since 1993 to meet its costs. The income from the sale of credencials, distance certificates and so on only covers about half of the annual running costs of the centre. The centre employs up to 20 staff plus security. They need to be paid. There are also costs involved in housing the many volunteers. Plus the costs associated with running the buildings. The idea that the pilgrim office is a profitable enterprise for the Church is very far from the truth.

Thank you for the information. I stand corrected

 

[Levi]

So, to get back to the Camino Frances crowded issue. I walked from St Jean to Burgos starting on 6th October this year. I've walked at this time of year before - but this time I thought there were so many more people. So many more taking the options for baggage transport, walking in groups, staying in hotels all the way, expecting so much: some people told me that they were doing this simply for a holiday. Of course, there were also people walking more intentionally.

(One thing the camino has taught me (still a work in progress for me!) is to try not to make assumptions about people, so I'm sorry if I am doing exactly that. But also trying to give you a picture of what I experienced.)

But, honestly, I was surprised, and a bit dismayed.
After Burgos I travelled to Seville and walked to Merida along the Via de la Plata with an old friend. Like a breath of fresh air. Such a contrast.
I love the Frances, always will. But I think I'm going to avoid it for a little while.

 

[SabsP]

some people told me that they were doing this simply for a holiday. Of course, there were also people walking more intentionally.

(One thing the camino has taught me (still a work in progress for me!) is to try not to make assumptions about people, so I'm sorry if I am doing exactly that. But also trying to give you a picture of what I experienced.)

My most recent Camino Inglés was a pilgrimage with full intent and was at the same time also a real holiday for me. It can be both. It can even be more than that.

We stayed in hotels but wore our backpacks the whole way. Life is sometimes more complicated than we think. The older I get , the less I give a toss how others organise their life.

 

[SusanH]

People do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.

Also, if you want to form your opinions based on what you read on the Internet then life will be a disappointment for you.

Ouch

 

[SusanH]

I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.

It can be very upsetting.

 

[Tincatinker]

My last pilgrimage to Santiago wasn’t meant to be my last but I’m beginning to think it probably was. The disjunct between what I want to do and what I may be obliged to do is gaining significance. And I’m realizing that a life of dedicated self indulgence is unlikely to be a particularly long one. And that I cannot, despite years of trying, make the world or its component parts fit my requirements.

Ah? where was I? Oh, yes, too crowded? So long as there is no one stood on the little bit of ground I need, then no.

And if that last one wasn’t my last one then glory be and pass the Orujo

 

[winewalker3]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I totally agree with you and reflect. I walked the Francis 2008, 2010, in 2016 for a honeymoon with my wife who had the Francis on her bucklist for years and then we returned in 2017 with my siblings also to finish together into Santiago. So I have witnessed a great number of changes. To me personally not ones that I enjoy. I have hiked and walked with my siblings each year since 1998. My wife is a Dr. and could not separate herself from work to do the walk. We had read and heard of changes since 2010 that were not exactly attractive or inspiring, like the 110 km. race from Sarria as an example, bus tour groups along the trail picnicking, bike groups running you off the trail and you don't hear them coming at high speeds, crowded albergues and fewer of them open because of Covid. Was the Francis losing its appeal to the historical, spiritual, cultural and social relations that you gain with new friends from around the world, who came here to experience this amazing wonder of the historical world ?? I must say that 2016 with my wife was the most enjoyable and inspirational walk I have had. We met a group of internationals that we usually are walking with and eating with each day and night. They shared with us and played guitars and sang songs and prayed for my wife and I celebrating our honeymoon the entire trip !! But we have witnessed a more commercialized, sometimes crowded, people like the bikers who were dangerous, selfish claiming the camino as their own, tour groups that wondered around their bus lunch only with a camera then to be rewarded with their compestella. The Camino de Santiago has something for each of us, an attraction for different reasons, for people with different capabilites, now even more so people with disabilities. I have been blessed to have experienced the Francis and Spain before all of these changes, now all of the focus is on an economy rather than the very heart of the camino. What is the history, why is the camino here ?? Let us share the stories of the history, of the characters of those we have walked with. The camino is a living breathing gift from God our creator.

 

[dougfitz]

I wonder, when I see these headlines, whether those who craft them have undertaken any but some superficial analysis of the proposition. Sure, it's nice to share a personal perspective, but even the reflections of the OP hardly supports the proposition they have offered as a headline

Is the Camino too crowded now?

My first comment is that this has been the subject of discussion from even before I joined the forum, over a decade ago. This search - https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...=10&q=crowded&c[older_than]=2011-01-01&o=date - yields over ten pages of results on the word crowded. Not all are going to be complaints, but a quick glance will show that many are. So this is not a new issue. If the Camino is too crowded now, what justified thinking it was then?

More than suggesting that there is an issue here, I see this as evidence that 'the camino' has responded to the demands placed on it by the increasing number of pilgrims. I first walked, on the CF, in 2010. That year was a Holy Year, and there was an 85% increase in pilgrim numbers from 2009. It's not the largest percentage increase, but, outside of the return from COVID restrictions in the past couple of years, there hasn't been as large an increase year on year since.

And let me suggest that it will continue to respond. But more, it won't matter whether this is from someone seeking to spend a week on one of the Camino routes with little interest in visiting Santiago, the Cathedral or the Pilgrim Office and getting a Compostela, or someone walking one of the longer routes to the Tomb of St James. Certainly there will be those who will continue to provide affordable accommodation for walking and cycling pilgrims, assisted by a range of dedicated locals and volunteers from around the world. But when I last walked the CF, some six years after walking in 2010, I observed that there were many more places offering accommodation, or places that were offering more accommodation within their already existing facilities. While this had its downsides, it was never impossible to find a place to stay.

And this would be my next point. For a few years now, the number of members who raise the issue of accommodation shortages when they haven't been able to book a room several months out from their pilgrimage appears to have been increasing. I personally don't understand why this is necessary, but clearly some people feel the need for far greater certainty from the outset than I do. This isn't evidence that there are accommodation shortages, despite what many members suggest when they raise these issues.

As a personal observation, my experience on the Camino Portuguese in 2022 was that it was far more difficult to find accommodation when I was booking, even just a day or two ahead, than when I just walked to a municipal or Xunta albergue that couldn't be booked. I confirmed my observations about this earlier this year walking the Variente Espiritual and Camino Sanabres just after Easter and in May. There was no shortage of places on either of these routes, but there was a shortage (if one could call it that) of accommodation that could be booked.

That doesn't mean that I don't think there is value in booking, although I generally only book a day or two ahead when I can better predict where I will want to stay, and it appears that there might be one or perhaps two suitable places there, and no municipal or Xunta which does not accept bookings. My experience over the many years I have walked in Spain and Portugal is that these are less likely to have a free bed when one arrives later in the day, which I now do more regularly than I might have when I was a decade or so younger.

The other aspect that some people raise is crowding of the path on the last 100 km or thereabouts from towns like Sarria and Tui. My experience is that leaving both these towns and then on the day walking into Santiago, it can be difficult to find a stretch of path in which one can walk in quiet reflection. More, I have experienced occasional rude and aggressive behaviour. But otherwise, I have always enjoyed the energy and enthusiasm that the many pilgrims who do choose to walk those shorter pilgrimages bring to the Camino.

As others have said, if that crowding is going to be an issue for you, choose a quieter route. The two that I have walked, the Camino Ingles and Camino Sanabres, were both relatively quiet, and even when one reached the urban fringe of Santiago, weren't particularly crowded with locals going about their days.

Let me predict that those of us who have watched discussions like this over time have some confidence that the camino will adapt to the demands being placed upon it. It is one of the few times that I think use of the rather overworn phrase 'the camino provides' is justified.

 

[David C.]

I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.

I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.

Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.

This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.

Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!

I first did the Camino Frances in 1996, and have walked it all or portions of in the years since. While many thing have changed over the years, the camaraderie is still wonderful. Also, routes such as the Norte, the VdlP, or the La Ruta de la Lana are possible alternatives if you want something similar to the atmosphere you enjoyed on your walk in 2013.

 

[JabbaPapa]

The disjunct between what I want to do and what I may be obliged to do is gaining significance. And I’m realizing that a life of dedicated self indulgence is unlikely to be a particularly long one.

Interesting -- it's quite the opposite for me ; walking a Camino is an increasing necessary for my health, not walking one for too many years leads to self-indulgence.

 

[dick bird]

¨Is the Camino too crowded now?¨ Well, there´s only one way to find out. Buen Camino.

 

[DwainS]

One anecdote - I walked the CF last May/June, an apparently busy period. And even on the final 100km into Santiago I was able to spend many hours walking all alone, often without another pilgrim in sight, simply by staying in between the more popular stages. The crowds come and go, they aren't a constant thing, as people spread out as they're walking. I would sometimes stop and let pilgrims pass me, and within a few minutes I'd be alone again.

I found the same. Also walked May-June. would let the crowds pass and I would be be all by myself. Some times I walked alone for quite a while and I thought I might have been on a wrong path but wasn't. But also most "tourist destinations" in the world are getting busier every year. From Bali to Philippines, Amsterdam, Italy, Croatia and many other places are seeing way more tourists. It's the nature of the beast. More people in the world every year equates to more people traveling. It was my first time this year and in five years from now if I walk I'll probably say, hey there's more people walking from when I first walked.

 

[Walkerooni]

Walked SJPdP to Santiago May/June 2018. Never booked . And again Burgos to Santiago and onward this late Aug/Sept. I never booked. All I read on this forum was how crowded and impossible it was, and to go home. But again, I never booked, found the most lovely albergues at 25-50% capacity. Of course there was a new mini-wave from Leon, and the usual macro-wave from Sarria, where although albergues were almost empty, we saw more people in 200m than we'd seen in 3 weeks, most hopping in and out of vans, buses, cabs, with obviously no intention of walking the last 100k. Saw those same folks celebrating like they had summited Everest and waving their compostelas several days later. Those that walk from further out are admonished to not be judgemental of the "Disney tour" peregrinos. Are they warned as to what to expect from us? I have talked to many, and while lovely, they are SHOCKED to discover people walk over 100k. They are GOBSMACKED to find our people walk alone! I know i will be attacked for this, but I think the tour operators do their clients a great dis-service by not educating their clients/victims as to the realities of walking a Camino longer than 4 days. But as to the original question of whether it was too crowded out there? No! Pick your time. Pick your place. Enjoy your solitude while you can.

 

[davejsy]

I walked SJPdP to SdG September 24th to October 25th this year. I have no previous Caminos so had nothing to compare it to, but I was worried about it being busy and thought the end of Sept would avoid that (there is a degree of naivety here granted). I was surprised at the amount of pilgrims in SJPdP, and that some of the Albergues were full there. I was also surprised at the number of people I saw/passed on the way to Orisson where I stopped, and which was full. However, after this there was nothing like what I was worried about until Sarria, and in fact some days if I was walking alone I could easily go several hours without seeing anyone. Apart from Orisson I never booked another place the whole time. I was by no means turning up to these places early to bag a bed either.
Sarria? Well I think we timed it wrong as we arrived here on a Friday, and walking out of there on the Saturday morning was like some scene from Zombie nation with I guess many people starting out on the Saturday from there. Portomarin was similar, but after that it soon sorted itself out, and the actual towns/villages didn't seem crowded at all.
So, I can't compare to any other Caminos, but I can tell you that this was one of the most amazing experiences of my life (albeit there were ups and downs as you would expect). And, I'm not sure how it could have been anymore magical at any other point in time, it's a personal experience I guess and we live in an ever-changing and increasingly busy world everywhere.
I found the Camino threw at me the stuff I needed to learn from, and for me crowds would just be another one of those little Camino lessons. With a bit of planning, you could avoid the worst of what your fears may be if you need to I would guess.

 

[EmCeeEm]

Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.

I got the essence of your message, dandagenais! And I'm glad I spotted your comment because I'm preparing for my first Camino. I am, therefore, looking at all the angles, which I can only learn from people who post questions and comments, like you did. Thanks very much.

 

[KevinWilcox]

I’m planning to do the last leg of the Frances next year so ended up her as part of my early homework. While I obviously can’t comment on the Camino, may I just add in relation to something somewhat similar, the Everest trek in Nepal. I did that journey several times over about 10 years and, of course, it changed a bit and got busier from year to year. The people didn’t change much though, neither hosts nor trekkers. And that’s what really gives texture To most trips, as nice walking can be had almost anywhere.

Now, back to the Frances. My question is this - is it at all likely that I would find myself quite unable to get any peace and quiet on a day, I.e. Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!

 

[davejsy]

It depends, if it's early April and doesn't clash with Easter then I'd imagine no. However, if you specifically seek peace and quiet then it may suit you better to look at another route. . .

 

[Bradypus]

Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!

Not so much sections as times. Early in the morning you may find an hour or so when half the world seems to walk past - especially on the Camino Frances after Sarria. But that post-breakfast rush tends to clear fairly soon as people spread themselves more evenly along that day's stage. If you start a little later in the day you may never see the hordes a little way ahead of you.

 

[David Tallan]

Now, back to the Frances. My question is this - is it at all likely that I would find myself quite unable to get any peace and quiet on a day, I.e. Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!

That depends on when you walk, what part of the Frances you are on, and what strategies you use. I think it is is quite unlikely except perhaps during the last stretch after Sarria during the high season of July/August if you haven't adopted any strategies to ensure you get what you are looking for. For the rest of the route, and the rest of the year, you should be able, once you are out walking at the very least, to find the peace and quiet you are looking for. As for that last bit, that might be problematic, as I've mentioned several times in various posts, my experience was that solitude wasn't difficult to find even in this busiest stretch of the busiest route during the busiest time of the year. I had a lot of solitary time walking and mostly, even when I wasn't alone, there were no more than a couple of pilgrims in sight at a time. In the last 50 km from Melide (where I joined the Frances) I can count on one hand the number of crowds I saw (generally at bars). All I had to do was sleep "off-stage" at Salceda and Lavacolla instead of Arzua and O Pedrouzo.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I’m planning to do the last leg of the Frances next year so ended up her as part of my early homework. While I obviously can’t comment on the Camino, may I just add in relation to something somewhat similar, the Everest trek in Nepal. I did that journey several times over about 10 years and, of course, it changed a bit and got busier from year to year. The people didn’t change much though, neither hosts nor trekkers. And that’s what really gives texture To most trips, as nice walking can be had almost anywhere.

Now, back to the Frances. My question is this - is it at all likely that I would find myself quite unable to get any peace and quiet on a day, I.e. Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!

No, only if you want this.

It is always possible to walk at a different time to other pilgrims. Either earlier or later in the day, at your choice. It is also worth noting that the peak period for the last 100klms is July and August. Even in those times I have walked in solitude over the last 100klms.

 

[KevinWilcox]

Many thanks for the responses, that reassures me that “normal rules still apply” I.e. that even in the most popular places on the planet, taking one or two steps out of the groove can make all the difference. I should make clear, I do actually like meeting and walking with new people, but not 500 all in one go who all started from the same place on the same day! But I’m also a realist - these days it often seems like half the world is ‘on tour’ while the other half does the catering, and almost everything is 50 times busier than it was when I was young, free and single. And since I’m part of that equation (and contributed to popularising this stuff by encouraging all my friends to go and do this or that amazing trip that I’d just finished) I shouldn’t complain too much.

 

[KevinWilcox]

A further question if I may, though I’ll add that when I have time I’ll try to access statistical data and see what that says;

I‘d guess that most people start their walk on a Saturday or Sunday, followed by Friday or Monday. And that mid-week starts are the least popular. Is that correct? Does anyone have any idea what the rough relative percentages are of starts per day? My train of thought here is that we (l’ll actually be doing this with my wife and another couple) would likely find it a bit less crowded all the way if we started on a Tuesday or Wednesday, for instance, as the weekend starters will always be two or three days ahead. I appreciate one needs to factor in people doing the whole walk or other starting points and that you never want to over-think these things, but we must all know of plenty of walks that are ‘standing room only’ on some days but utterly empty on others.

 

[Bradypus]

My train of thought here is that we (l’ll actually be doing this with my wife and another couple) would likely find it a bit less crowded all the way if we started on a Tuesday or Wednesday, for instance, as the weekend starters will always be two or three days ahead.

I haven't seen any figures from SJPDP about the individual days of the week but my impression is that broadly you are right - weekends are the busiest time for those starting to walk. At the other end of the Frances Friday tends to be the busiest day for arrivals in Santiago (those figures are more readily available).

There is a problem with your idea that the wave of "weekend starters" will always stay ahead of you as you walk. There are no fixed stages - people may choose to walk longer or shorter days as they wish. So you may find that you walk longer or faster than the majority and end up overtaking the wave who started before you. Or alternatively being slower than the next wave which is rapidly approaching you from behind! Or just as likely that the wave spreads itself more evenly across the landscape after a few days and becomes indistinguishable from the normal background noise.