For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I don't even have a bike! Wonder if i could use it as a deposit on a tricycle as used by elderly shoppers?Interesting and amusing. Billions of euros being spent in France in upgrading rail while in Britain, there is a promise to get £50 to have your bike fixed.
I think I'll be moving soon.
OMG ... I hadn't heard about it.Brussels to Vienna already back in operation.
My first trip to mainland Europe was Dover - Ostend in 1961 and it felt so exotic: cigars, diesel and coffee. Friteries and bateaux of moules. Sadly the terminal on the UK is now incredibly busy with cruise liners so not sure foot passengers would get a look in although perhaps if they reintroduce the Golden Arrow?OMG ... I hadn't heard about it.
Hands up all who have travelled on the Vienna-Ostend-Express (now defunct).
And I barely dare to think it ... could the passenger ferry come back???
And may be ‘ La Puerta del Sol’ ElA rare positive outcome of the Covid19 epidemic in France is that there's been renewed interest in and traveling on the few remaining Night Trains, to the point that the French President has promised revival and reinvestment.
There are reports that the famous Train Bleu Paris-Nice Night Train might be revived "by 2022" (i.e. they're aiming for this year or next) -- and of interest to pilgrims, so may the Paris-Tarbes "Palombe Bleue" in the same time frame
I took several times in the 70’s La Puerta del Sol which was a night train between Paris Austerlitz station and Madrid Chamartin!A rare positive outcome of the Covid19 epidemic in France is that there's been renewed interest in and traveling on the few remaining Night Trains, to the point that the French President has promised revival and reinvestment.
There are reports that the famous Train Bleu Paris-Nice Night Train might be revived "by 2022" (i.e. they're aiming for this year or next) -- and of interest to pilgrims, so may the Paris-Tarbes "Palombe Bleue" in the same time frame
Hmmm, in the heat of summer, open windows would most likely not be enough to stay comfortable...in cold weather they would need to stay shut. I'm sure there is some type of air flowing through those trains...just saying.No recycled air @Camino Chrissy
The windows in the sleeping coupets and in the hallways can be opened
Besides what covid in XX century?
It all sounds like great fun having this nostalgic way to travel resurrected, but I must be missing something here. I don't see how people being all cooped up together breathing recycled air for days on end in sleeper cars is an improved option over flying to your destination. I don't see how it provides any better protection against covid transmission.
Yes but you need to remember that in Europe folks are not used to A/C the way we areHmmm, in the heat of summer, open windows would most likely not be enough to stay comfortable...in cold weather they would need to stay shut. I'm sure there is some type of air flowing through those trains...just saying.
Yes but you need to remember that in Europe folks are not used to A/C the way we are
Open windows in the summer is totally normal and winter is no problem either
A bit of useless information...my grandfather was the guard on the last journey of the Golden Arrow and we rushed back to see him on "Blue Peter"..My first trip to mainland Europe was Dover - Ostend in 1961 and it felt so exotic: cigars, diesel and coffee. Friteries and bateaux of moules. Sadly the terminal on the UK is now incredibly busy with cruise liners so not sure foot passengers would get a look in although perhaps if they reintroduce the Golden Arrow?
No offence taken and to clarifyNo offence meant, but you seem to be making the common generalization about Europe. You are right that up north where I am, we generally do not invest in A/C, it would be a waste of money and energy as on average we would only need it a few weeks a year (if at all). And open windows in winter? – yes, but only for short periods to get some fresh (?) air in unless you like to freeze your butt off.
In the southern parts of Europe, (southern Spain, France, Italy, Greece) A/C is widely used.
Long live Horses, Mules, Camels and Elephants!!!!I hope we all get to travel again soon without worry, no matter our choice of transportation.
Long live Horses, Mules, Camels and Elephants!!!!
Did I miss anyone?
(yes for a reasonably short period of time least I freeze my nose off - before my butt)
I believe that's called "mooning"...your caboose!Yes, I guess sticking that part of the body out of the window would come naturally- but these days you’d never know
A rare positive outcome of the Covid19 epidemic in France is that there's been renewed interest in and traveling on the few remaining Night Trains, to the point that the French President has promised revival and reinvestment.
There are reports that the famous Train Bleu Paris-Nice Night Train might be revived "by 2022" (i.e. they're aiming for this year or next) -- and of interest to pilgrims, so may the Paris-Tarbes "Palombe Bleue" in the same time frame
It is indeed great news. I am looking at the night train from Euston to Perpignan..a little jaunt for the future...and the Pyranees too.This is great news - I would rather go on a train than fly. So what if it takes longer time, it is a great experience. Gives you time to think and contemplate where you are going. And so much better for the environment.
There is a certain fascination and romanticism about night trains (actual sleeper trains and not trains that run at night) and they bring, for many, also nostalgia. I got curious why we are discussing this. It's apparently because the French president Macron said something. In an interview a few weeks ago he said this:It all sounds like great fun having this nostalgic way to travel resurrected, but I must be missing something here.
As a matter of fact, people don't travel massively right now, at least not in those European countries that have been the most affected by the Coronavirus health crisis. Because of the crisis, some people prefer trains over flights now in contrast to their earlier preferences. I certainly do. I think even those who have read the articles and seen the videos about airflow in restaurants may prefer a train compartment over a flight cabin. I am certainly among these people. I don't want to sit too closely to strangers. On a modern train - at least on the ones I know and prefer -, you are just so much further away from the next passenger as a rule and certainly currently where the long distance trains and high speed trains are not fully booked. I noticed that on the German high speed trains you can see online whether more than 50% of seats have been sold on a given section and many tickets are not bound to a train, as plane tickets are, so you pick a train that suits you best on short notice.I don't see how people being all cooped up together breathing recycled air for days on end in sleeper cars is an improved option over flying to your destination. I don't see how it provides any better protection against covid transmission.
I've always been interested in the train going from Chicago all the way out west to Glacier National Park. I've been twice by car and it's a very long haul.
Been on a day train with a glass dome roof between Fairbanks and Anchorage...stunning mountain scenery with a dome roof! Ironically I never saw a bear or other animal along the way.
Because of the virus crisis and until it's permanently on the downswing, people should limit travel to keep it from spreading. I find it hard to believe the corona virus cannot be spread back and forth on a sleeper train.Because of the crisis, some people prefer trains over flights now in contrast to their earlier preferences.
Yep, about 80% of our discussion about the current and/or imminent future situation in Spain and other European countries is about issues that are moot for about 90% of the forum members.or those of us who do not live in the EU or UK, train travel in Europe is a moot point as we have no option to use the trains you speak of until we take a dreaded flight first.
We need some empathy!Yep, about 80% of our discussion about the current and/or imminent future situation in Spain and other European countries is about issues that are moot for about 90% of the forum members.
I pulled these percentage out of thin air, btw. Coronavirus-free air, I hasten to add.
My "We need some empathy!
So it's true that, on average, 85% of facts are made up on the spot then?Yep, about 80% of our discussion about the current and/or imminent future situation in Spain and other European countries is about issues that are moot for about 90% of the forum members.
I pulled these percentage out of thin air, btw. Coronavirus-free air, I hasten to add.
Get hold of Paul Theroux's "The Great Railway Bazaar" and the follow up "Ghost Train to the Eastern Star", sit back and be prepared to be transported to a different age.Just to go off to the side a little....
On my bucket list (not in any particular order)
Trans-Siberian (Moscow - Vladivostok)Venice Simplon-Orient-Express (be it that original OE is no longer running)Philadelphia - LA (obviously need to do changes\connections but seems the least resistance would be overnight to NOLA and then 2 nights to LA)Alaska Railroad
As children we lived along the railway route from Victoria to Dover and would often see the Golden Arrow at Victoria Station. At Sydenham Hill where we lived the line plunges into a mile long tunnel and the trains used to sound their whistles to alert workers in the dark (these were steam trains!). Often we'd stand on the station footbridge waiting for the Arrow to power through. Mum always knew where we'd been as we'd come home reeking of coal smokeA bit of useless information...my grandfather was the guard on the last journey of the Golden Arrow and we rushed back to see him on "Blue Peter"..
We all have pipe dreams. I love France, too. If 2021 proves a "good year" regarding covid, I hope to fly non-stop directly into Paris for the 3rd time to start another pilgrimage from there. Of course, that would be in addition to heading back to Spain to complete the plans that were foiled this year.It is indeed great news. I am looking at the night train from Euston to Perpignan..a little jaunt for the future...and the Pyranees too.
So much slower and infinitely more enjoyable. Next year it's on.
maybe, just maybe even a rice cooker . . . .
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one . . . .
Another bit of useless...at the ends of their careers both my Grandfather and uncle were the station master at Dover Priory.As children we lived along the railway route from Victoria to Dover and would often see the Golden Arrow at Victoria Station. At Sydenham Hill where we lived the line plunges into a mile long tunnel and the trains used to sound their whistles to alert workers in the dark (these were steam trains!). Often we'd stand on the station footbridge waiting for the Arrow to power through. Mum always knew where we'd been as we'd come home reeking of coal smoke
View attachment 79654
Get hold of Paul Theroux's "The Great Railway Bazaar" and the follow up "Ghost Train to the Eastern Star", sit back and be prepared to be transported to a different age.
We all need a little happiness in these unsettling times, that's for sure.Another bit of useless...at the ends of their careers both my Grandfather and uncle were the station master at Dover Priory.
This is such a nice thread and has brought back some happy memories for me.
Get hold of Paul Theroux's "The Great Railway Bazaar" and the follow up "Ghost Train to the Eastern Star", sit back and be prepared to be transported to a different age.
After I graduated from high school I took a train by mysel from Savanna, Illinois to Minneapolis, Minnesota to visit a friend. It had a glass dome and looked out along the Mississippi river bluffs the whole way...my first trip alone and a great memory!I've taken the train from Syracuse, NY to Portland, Oregon, with my two boys a number of time. It's overnight from Syracuse to Chicago, then (after a day in Chicago), it's 48 hours to Portland. Once we stopped at Glacier and went camping for two weeks. It's a great way to see the country and meet people.
This week in the Guardian.
'People don't want to fly': Covid-19 reawakens Europe's sleeper trains
Overnight services in Europe had seemingly hit the buffers but pandemic has revived demandwww.theguardian.com
A very encouraging and nice article, but for now everyone is told to avoid public transportation if at all possible. I believe sleeper trains are public transportation and resurrecting them is all good and well...at a later date, no matter how promising the article is written.This week in the Guardian.
'People don't want to fly': Covid-19 reawakens Europe's sleeper trains
Overnight services in Europe had seemingly hit the buffers but pandemic has revived demandwww.theguardian.com
Turga, I just took a quick look online and it seems you are correct in what you are saying. The low cost EU/UK airlines are a far better deal and get you where you need to go "quick as a wink".and for all this pleasure you’d probably have to pay 2-4 times the amount than that of a plane trip
A very encouraging and nice article, but for now everyone is told to avoid public transportation if at all possible. I believe sleeper trains are public transportation and resurrecting them is all good and well...at a later date, no matter how promising the article is written.
get you where you need to go "quick as a wink".
I know they are.Masks here mandatory on public transport.
I can't say that I know the rules in every European country but I think what you say is no longer accurate. I checked one country: The general official recommendation is to avoid situations when there are many passengers, to travel as much as possible outside of peak hours, to try to give each other space, to take the next train or tram if the one that's arriving looks busy.for now everyone is told to avoid public transportation if at all possible
I can't say that I know the rules in every European country but I think what you say is no longer accurate. I checked one country: The general official recommendation is to avoid situations when there are many passengers, to travel as much as possible outside of peak hours, to try to give each other space, to take the next train or tram if the one that's arriving looks busy.
I know that the public transport operators in some countries are requested or obliged to run their full program even when that means that trains and busses are fairly empty most of the time and run on deficits.
Based on my albeit limited personal observations in two countries, nearly every passenger with very few exceptions wears face masks on public transport, and they are pretty compliant with other recommendations like really waiting until everyone is off the train or tram or bus before embarking.
Ditto! Three passengers in our first class compartment recently where seats are are even more spaced out than in 2nd class (I usually travel 2nd class).He paid an extra fee for the pleasure for first class. Was the only passenger in that compartment
Yep. And on my long distance train recently, no food or drinks were served in the dining car and no staff came to offer steaming hot coffee to passengers seated in the compartments. No free newspapers for 1st class passengers. I knew all this beforehand, of course ☺. As few close interactions with others as possible and as few stuff to touch as possible.most people buy their ticket online or through an app some passengers buy a paper ticket and controllers try to avoid touching stuff
Get hold of Paul Theroux's "The Great Railway Bazaar" and the follow up "Ghost Train to the Eastern Star", sit back and be prepared to be transported to a different age.
Barbara, it sounds like you have had a very full and interesting life of travel!i liked the trans siberian but it does take a little while. Express is rather a generous word for the average speed it achieves. I spent three weeks from central France to the north of Myanmar although I did have a few stopovers on the way. Even so, it takes sixteen days actually on a train, river boat or bus which is sixteen times longer than going by air. it's also a lot more expensive, largely because of the visa requirements. Fastest trains on the journey? French and Chinese. Most comfortable? First class sleeper in Thailand. Hardest seats? Myanmar. Slowest? Local train in Poland.
Best train food? Vietnam.
Oh, and on another occasion I sailed across the Atlantic. Even slower. 35 days including four days in Madeira, from France to Brazil. So flying is not actually essential but very useful.
Sometimes it isn't that the local water is unhygienic...it is that your gut and your metabolism isn't adapted to the bacteria present. I can get a reaction to drinking another countries tap water that the locals don't and vice versa. Whatever it is "Don't drink the water"No secret, really. I eat street food, as one I like to try new things, and two, it's cooked fresh in front of me. i drink whatever the locals drink, if it's either hot or out of a sealed bottle (or beer on tap) I avoid tap water in countries where the hygiene is dubious, also raw seafood.
Seasickness never lasts more than 36 hours. Ginger biscuits are good.
I try to avoid mosquito bites, but I don't take anti malarial drugs as a routine unless it's a very high risk area. Long sleeves and trousers, Deet on exposed skin. Silk sleeping bag liner and possibly a mosquito net, depending on where I am. I keep vaccinations up to date but don't expect them to give 100% protection.
That's it, really. No need to be paranoid.
That's interesting. I havn't experienced that myself but yes, it seems logical. I wonder how different it has to be?Sometimes it isn't that the local water is unhygienic...it is that your gut and your metabolism isn't adapted to the bacteria present. I can get a reaction to drinking another countries tap water that the locals don't and vice versa. Whatever it is "Don't drink the water"
Well I'm no scientist and I'm guilty of just repeating something I was told years back.That's interesting. I havn't experienced that myself but yes, it seems logical. I wonder how different it has to be?
Amen. Common sense goes a long way.That's it, really. No need to be paranoid.
Ummm...sometimes the tap water IS undrinkable. Mine here, for example. I don't even brush my teeth with it.I think.its just a question of what your body is used to.
Years ago our beer was developed because our water was undrinkable.Amen. Common sense goes a long way.
Ummm...sometimes the tap water IS undrinkable. Mine here, for example. I don't even brush my teeth with it.
That said, there's definitely something to the adjustment hypothesis.
I am not sure how much safer it would be to travel in a shared couchette with
I agre with your thoughts as that's what I'd been attempting to wonder about and suggest, too, but most do not agree with me and I have no experience on a sleeper, so I've let the majority rule.I am not sure how much safer it would be to travel in a shared couchette with
others for a longer period of time than traveling on a cheap airline flight? Maybe it would be safer to buy two or three seats on a a basic airline for yourself when on sale. I would think the air filtering system on newer planes is better than most trains?
There is no rule here, and it isn't necessary to come to a consensus on this. There are many unknowns, different opinions and different ways of managing risks in our lives.I've let the majority rule.
Well to say "the majority rules" was just for me, really just a figure of speech I used, but it aptly describes it from my perception. The gist has clearly been that the majority of Europeans (not all) have taken an opposite view to mine...and rightly so, I suppose. They are ones who have had experience on EU sleeper trains, so they are the majority. My point is that I am not going to continue pushing a point I know less about than they do, but @Marbe2 expresses the same concern that I had.There is no rule here, and it isn't necessary to come to a consensus on this. There are many unknowns, different opinions and different ways of managing risks in our lives.
Well to say "the majority rules" was just for me, really just a figure of speech I used, but it aptly describes it from my perception. The gist has clearly been that the majority of Europeans (not all) have taken an opposite view to mine...and rightly so, I suppose. They are ones who have had experience on EU sleeper trains, so they are the majority. My point is that I am not going to continue pushing a point I know less about than they do, but @Marbe2 expresses the same concern that I had.
EDIT...My concern was about air quality, and confined spaces with others for longer stretches of time regarding the potential spread of covid...until it is eradicated.
Please forgive me if I don ‘t get your point? Was not the title of this threadMost of the discussion on this thread has been about the joys of train travel during normal times, with some discussion of the precautions currently in place for day trains. I don't see anyone advocating for night trains and couchette bunks during Covid times. I don't think there are opposite opinions!
Night trains in Europe are universally interesting and fun - have travelled this way a number of times, each a memorable experience.
Please forgive me if I don ‘t get your point? Was not the title of this thread
French NIGHT trains coming back?
I don't see anyone advocating for night trains and couchette bunks during Covid times.
Night trains are making a comeback in some parts of Europe like Austria, Germany, Switzerland, France, Nordic countries to name a few, and in other parts they've never gone out of existence like in Italy apparently and no doubt in other countries. The reasons for this comeback are manifold. Right now, there is an increased interest in train travel including night trains because it's summer and the holiday season (some night trains operate only during the summer season) and because Covid causes changes of behaviour patterns and holiday patterns. Train operators report that offers for private compartments or private cabins in night trains find increased interest. And since trains are currently far from fully booked, train operators even have offers such as booking a whole compartment for 1, 2 or 3 passengers at very attractive prices. In fact, that's one thing I learnt in the context of this thread and having a look at actual night train sites: how attractive these prices are. I see that there are even concepts in modern night trains like single cabins of the "pod" type.I did not get the impression there was any caution shown about watching and waiting, but instead a few spoke of using masks, open windows, and having your own sleeper car...as if that is a guarantee at this time. I don't think it is.
The French train operator SNCF has this and more to say about COVID-19 AND AIR CONDITIONING, in English: A few cases traced to a restaurant in China have prompted researchers to ask whether ventilation systems [in trains] can spread the virus. “No,” says engineer Cyril Verdun, SNCF’s top air conditioning expert.I recommend googling!
Oh, as a member of this target group, I'm totally in favour of this, but only under the condition that it includes ALL those older than 60 years, no matter how much money they have or whether they have large airplanes and helicopters at their disposal for themselves and wouldn't even need to take a train. So much non-essential travel going on in this group.For example - if you are over 60 or have underlying conditions, please kindly travel safely on the train in your "senior" car, or even better, just stay at home, since you are not an "essential" traveller.
This is a hilarious thought!Although, I'm not quite certain of the complete logic of the seniors only car ... does it mean that the over 60s don't infect each other or that it's ok when they infect only each other and not the younger ones?
So much non-essential travel going on in this group.
The sort that keeps airlines in business?What kind of travel would really be essential?
So very true!Not only airlines
This depends on your values, and perhaps on your needs and resources. For me, to cross the country to care for a family member after life-threatening surgery was essential. His only closer relatives were in the United States, without the right to cross the Canadian border. I watched my mind shift from "I am a senior and will not travel by air until I have been vaccinated. I have some savings and will hang on to them to pay for my next camino" to "I can afford to come and to pay for a hotel while I stay with you for your recuperation." For me, the danger to myself of travelling across the country by air was no longer an issue. Fortunately, for me and for him, another family member, closer geographically, offered to house him and care for him after he left the hospital. This family member was concerned about my safery in travelling. So all is well, and ten days after the surgery my brother is recovering well and keeping in touch. For me, having adequate resources and no dependents. this was essential travel. I am very glad that it worked out as it did.What kind of travel would really be essential?
I remember there was A/C in the couchette cars, at least in Italy. Spain only had it in 1st class sleeper cars, or at least that’s what I was told when I bought my Europass.Hmmm, in the heat of summer, open windows would most likely not be enough to stay comfortable...in cold weather they would need to stay shut. I'm sure there is some type of air flowing through those trains...just saying.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?