Holy buckets! The bots!

[HoosierOldLady]

Ok, I’m old but I do consider myself rather internet-savvy. But what is up with all the bots viewing the forum posts? If you look at members and who’s currently online, there is a tab for bots. (See pic). Can someone explain to me what all these bots are doing here? Data mining to answer online searches? Or something else?

 

[Bradypus]

A pity that @intricate decided to leave the forum - he/she might have had something to say on the subject of data scraping.
Post in thread 'Using AI to help you plan' https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/using-ai-to-help-you-plan.80786/post-1140890

 

[Tincatinker]

Just wait to see how many Bots are viewing a thread with Bot in the title…

It’s how it all works. Bots scrape data, amalgate it and the systems regurgitate it. That’s why for a, sadly, brief period Tripeadvertiser carried a recommendation to test the echo in the reading room of the British Museum

 

[HoosierOldLady]

A pity that @intricate decided to leave the forum - he/she might have had something to say on the subject of data scraping.
Post in thread 'Using AI to help you plan' https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/using-ai-to-help-you-plan.80786/post-1140890

Wow, missed that thread yesterday. Sad indeed when a member feels marginalized. They could have helped me understand this.

 

[Bradypus]

That’s why for a, sadly, brief period Tripeadvertiser carried a recommendation to test the echo in the reading room of the British Museum

That one has been in circulation since at least 1958

 

[HoosierOldLady]

Just wait to see how many Bots are viewing a thread with Bot in the title

Hahaha didn’t think about that

 

[Rick M]

Sooooo...........

If you type a google search for "Best Rainwear for Camino Santiago" you will get a result. After getting past your favorite retailers (we're all a little different), and assorted sponsored adds, it will bring up a list of posts on this forum. How did it know to send you there? It reads post, adds, news, blogs, emails, weather forecasts, and everything else it can get access to on the web, 24 hours a day seven days a week. Its how search and AI work. There's more, but I don't want to scare anyone.........

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Can someone explain to me what all these bots are doing here? Data mining to answer online searches?

Mainly that.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I used the data scraped by a bot of Google's to read a forum member's post that had been deleted. I won't go into it but I can't understand why it had been deleted as it was an apology.

 

[henrythedog]

Wow, missed that thread yesterday. Sad indeed when a member feels marginalized. They could have helped me understand this.

You could always contact the allegedly ‘marginalised’ member directly. They seemed keen to share their knowledge.

 

[dick bird]

But what is up with all the bots viewing the forum posts?

I raised this a while ago. Apparently, this is what bots do. They are constantly searching the internet looking for a likely way in to a website. Look, however, is all they can do because the forum's defences have so far managed to keep them out. But if you see any signs that bots are actually posting, we would very much like to know so please be vigilant

 

[dick bird]

I used the data scraped by a bot of Google's to read a forum member's post that had been deleted. I won't go into it but I can't understand why it had been deleted as it was an apology.

If it is the thread I think it was, that was at the member's request. They had already posted a deletion request.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Websites have ways to request crawling bots to not visit specified areas of the site and also to not add webpage's URLs to search results listed by search engines. The big guys will honor these requests but not all will.

 

[Former member 108241]

You could always contact the allegedly ‘marginalised’ member directly. They seemed keen to share their knowledge.

Yes it was generous of him to share his knowledge. It's a shame the thread turned the way it did. Newbies and veterans alike can add value here, maybe in subtly different ways.

 

[Nick B]

First world problem....

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Ok, I’m old but I do consider myself rather internet-savvy. But what is up with all the bots viewing the forum posts? If you look at members and who’s currently online, there is a tab for bots. (See picView attachment 147371). Can someone explain to me what all these bots are doing here? Data mining to answer online searches? Or something else?

Nothing mysterious or unusual here.

Two bots for Microsoft's Bing search engine, two for Apple's and one for Google. Magestic-12 is mildly interesting because they have chosen to name their search engine after a debunked conspiracy theory. This leaves the Petal search bot which relates to a search engine owned by Huawei.

No one trying to break into anything and all perfectly normal.

 

[Robertb345]

Well interesting and I should not have been surprised. As with all sites on the internet, it is important to be careful what you post is only something you don't mind sharing with the world.
As for being marginalized, it is easy to understand how. Some responses people posted are so harsh. I quit posting questions and now just wait for someone else to ask it. And still some people attack the person. Luckly there are many others who are very kind and tolerant in their responses.

 

[William Garza]

Glad all i deal with is jpegs,raw,wav files.all this sounds ominous to me

 

[trecile]

If you type a google search for "Best Rainwear for Camino Santiago" you will get a result. After getting past your favorite retailers (we're all a little different), and assorted sponsored adds, it will bring up a list of posts on this forum. How did it know to send you there? It reads post, adds, news, blogs, emails, weather forecasts, and everything else it can get access to on the web, 24 hours a day seven days a week. Its how search and AI work.

Exactly. I would probably never know about this forum were it not for the bots that feed the information from this forum to the different search engines.

Like bacteria there are good bots and bad bots.

 

[Kathar1na]

On other websites, you usually don't see a list of the bots that are visiting it but they are in operation there just like here on this forum.

On this forum's list of bots currently or recently present, you can click on the name of the bot and go to the bot's owner's website to read an explanation of the bot's function.

Example from right now at the time of writing:

• Robot: Moz Dotbot
  • Viewing thread On the Camino: One Day at a Time, one Photo at a Time 9.0
  • A moment ago
    
• Robot: Majestic-12
  • Viewing latest content
  • A moment ago
    
• Robot: Applebot
  • Viewing thread From Vitoria-Gasteiz to Pamplona or Logrono
  • A moment ago
    
• Robot: Google
  • Viewing thread Animated film "O Apostolo" now on YouTube
  • A moment ago
    
• Robot: Google
  • Viewing forum Covid & the Camino
  • A moment ago

 

[C clearly]

And still some people attack the person

There are not too many attacks, and we do try to remove them. Members are expected to be adults who can deal with differing opinions. Such opinions may be expressed in a direct or blunt way. It may even may the case that most of the opinions are contrary to the OP. However, that is not the same as an "attack." This is the world-wide web, and participants needs to develop some street smarts.

 

[HoosierOldLady]

On other websites, you usually don't see a list of the bots that are visiting it but they are in operation there just like here on this forum.

Yes, this is exactly the reason for my original post. I know the bots are everywhere, but I don’t recall being offered the opportunity to see in real time which bots are actively searching a given site. I find it fascinating and I appreciate the work of those who manage this site. I’m always impressed with the ease of navigating , searching, quoting previous posts, linking to other threads, moderator attention to what’s happening, etc. This is just another example of another good thing about this site. Kudos.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Ok, I’m old but I do consider myself rather internet-savvy. But what is up with all the bots viewing the forum posts? If you look at members and who’s currently online, there is a tab for bots. (See picView attachment 147371). Can someone explain to me what all these bots are doing here? Data mining to answer online searches? Or something else?

Those are search engine bots that index the data created here, i.e. the forum posts, so that search engines can provide relevant results to queries that the content is relevant towards.

 

[David Tallan]

Ok, I’m old but I do consider myself rather internet-savvy. But what is up with all the bots viewing the forum posts? If you look at members and who’s currently online, there is a tab for bots. (See picView attachment 147371). Can someone explain to me what all these bots are doing here? Data mining to answer online searches? Or something else?

In general it looks like they are search engine bots indexing the posts on the site so that when you perform a search with Google or Bing or whatever the Apple equivalent is the Forum posts can show up in the results. Which is a good thing because we know how useful they are and that's probably how most members find the site in the first place. They can't just index once and never return. They (like us) keep coming back again and again to see what has changed. And each engine probably sends multiple bots to index more efficiently.

 

[David Tallan]

You could always contact the allegedly ‘marginalised’ member directly. They seemed keen to share their knowledge.

I'm not sure if that is possible once they have deleted their account. They were initially keen to share their knowledge but reconsidered based on the reception they received.

 

[lalaone]

It was sad that the member deleted their account. I was learning a lot from the exchange. These questions are obviously relevant, especially on a forum like this. This is also an interesting related question - thank you Hoosier.

Perhaps if they come back and see this somehow, they might see a book recommendation I was going to make before the thread was closed. Published by a German-born American historian right before Y2K, its questions reflect both a specific point in time and an eerie prescience of this so-called "Fourth Industrial Revolution" we are all experiencing in different ways. Happy reading to anyone interested, and Buen Camino to all.

Albert Borgmann, Holding On to Reality, introduction

 

[dgallen]

It was sad that the member deleted their account. I was learning a lot from the exchange. These questions are obviously relevant, especially on a forum like this.

How sad indeed... not the first time a thought provoking thread was hammered by ad hominem attacks on the original poster. Many silly little bullying jibes and uninformed comments. Welcome to the internet I guess. Such a loss for this forum.

 

[jayree]

Sooooo...........

If you type a google search for "Best Rainwear for Camino Santiago" you will get a result. After getting past your favorite retailers (we're all a little different), and assorted sponsored adds, it will bring up a list of posts on this forum. How did it know to send you there? It reads post, adds, news, blogs, emails, weather forecasts, and everything else it can get access to on the web, 24 hours a day seven days a week. Its how search and AI work. There's more, but I don't want to scare anyone.........

So I decided to do a ChatGPT search for your question to Google. Not a bad answer for less than one second.

"When it comes to choosing rainwear for the Camino de Santiago, it's important to prioritize lightweight and breathable options that will keep you dry and comfortable during your journey. Here are a few suggestions:

1. Rain Jacket: Look for a waterproof jacket made from breathable materials such as Gore-Tex or similar fabrics. Ensure it has adjustable cuffs and a hood to provide maximum protection from rain. Additionally, consider a jacket with pit zips or ventilation panels for increased breathability during warmer days.

2. Rain Pants: Invest in waterproof and breathable rain pants to keep your legs dry. Look for options that are lightweight and easily packable so you can stow them away when the rain stops. It's also helpful if they have zippered leg openings to easily put them on or take them off over your boots.

3. Poncho: Some pilgrims prefer wearing a poncho as it provides full-body coverage and can be used to cover both you and your backpack. Look for a lightweight and durable poncho made from waterproof material. Ensure it has a large hood and adjustable closures to keep you dry in heavy rain.

4. Waterproof Footwear: Along with rainwear, having waterproof footwear is crucial. Consider investing in waterproof hiking boots or trail running shoes with a breathable membrane like Gore-Tex. Alternatively, you can use waterproof gaiters to keep your feet and lower legs dry.

Remember to try out your rain gear before embarking on the Camino de Santiago to ensure it fits well and meets your needs. It's essential to strike a balance between staying dry and maintaining breathability to avoid excessive sweating or discomfort."

 

[Kirkie]

There is a joke about a local politician who addressed a group of constituents. He said: I hear there are allegations being made concerning me and I would like the all(e)gators to stand up.
How do you know whether or not I am a Bot?
I read above a Bot is viewing such and such a thread. i would dearly love a live from the camino thread to report on the Bots encountered along the way...And I wonder how tech their gear is...
edit: post above mine perhaps gives a clue. They will be state of the art...

 

[DoughnutANZ]

So I decided to do a ChatGPT search for your question to Google. Not a bad answer for less than one second.

Firstly, thank you.

I was toying with the idea of opening a thread discussion on ChatGPT but it's not really a Camino topic and I figured that if I opened it then it would get closed and probably deleted rather quickly. It looks like there is some interest in ChatGPT on this forum so lets go.

I see that you have characterised your interaction with ChatGPT as a "search". This is also the characterisation used by the recently departed poster.

Of course, everyone is free to use words and language in any manner they like but usually we want to communicate our ideas when we use language and so it is useful to agree the meaning of words that we use. I can, of course, call a monkey a wrench but that doesn't help the people looking for ways to undo a nut that is screwed on a bolt.

For the next bit I am going to completely anthropomorphise ChatGPT and so apologies in advance for anyone who has an issue with that.

It is correct that ChatGPT is trained on a huge aggregation of data found on the Internet and from other sources but the output that it produces is not a precis of that data. It can best be characterised as directed word selection or in more understandable (anthropomorphised) language, an opinion.

The output produced is completely made up. This can be hard to see and it is why people often, mistakenly, think that it is operating like a search. This is especially apparent when ChatGPT's opinion aligns with our own. The mechanics behind ChatGPT are a bit easier to understand when we look at similar tools that use different media from language. I did a quick search for AI image generators, found one called Craiyon and had it create the image below by typing in a few terms. It is important to understand that this image tool didn't search the Internet to find an already existing image that matched my words but rather it generated a completely new image for me using my words and it's training images (that were undoubtedly taken from the Internet).



Leaving aside the low quality of the image, I didn't want to waste time on it as it is just an illustration. The words that I used were "three hikers on the Camino". I had to adjust my words because I initially typed in "three pilgrims on the Camino" and all its opinions had people dressed in medieval garb.

While it can be harder to spot that ChatGPT is making up stuff when it produces its output opinion it gets a lot easier when you know how to trip it up. When I last used ChatGPT a couple of months ago I noted that it was trained using data that was available up until 2019 (I now see that it is trained up until 2021) and so if you want to see how it really works then ask a question that requires data that is not available within its training set (after 2021).

Now, let's address the value of ChatGPT's opinions. How would you value the opinion of a friend or acquaintance who constantly scanned the Internet looking for ideas and chose to base their opinions on the most frequently occuring posts that they read?

Sometimes your friend's opinions would be useful, especially when the majority of Internet posts on a subject were saying reasonable things but on the other hand when your friend was basing their opinions on the latest nutty conspiracy theory that someone had made up then it might be time to stop listening to your friend's opinions.

ChatGPT has some built in rules to help with this but basically what it bases its opinions on is the most numerous posts it can find on a particular "subject".

Note: Currently I don't think that ChatGPT has semantic knowledge and so it doesn't know "subjects". It is much simpler and relies on statistical word association.

Okay, feel free to use the output of ChatGPT as you wish, many people do and it can be useful when used with thought.

BTW, the scary bit about these tools isn't what they are capable of now but rather the speed with which they are improving. Soon, my criticisms of ChatGPT will be overcome. Smiley face or sad face according to your own thoughts on this matter.

Edited: 7:13pm 21st May 2023 to remove an incorrect reference to another member.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

@DoughnutANZ, I have been totally amazed at how well AI illustrates image requests but then what I see are illustrative of successful requests. This isn't quite the case for AI written reports, they do a quicker, better job with writing English but I can't trust the facts they present. I agree that things are going to get better with that quickly.

You did write this:

In the original thread @Rick of Rick and Peg inadvertently posted an example where he noted that ChatGPT had made stuff up when he asked about something he had seen recently.

I assume that you meant this thread (that I did not respond to):

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/using-ai-to-help-you-plan.80786/

I have not yet tried any of the new AI tools yet. When I do it would most likely be a request to give me search terms to use to find information rather than the information itself. That way I can evaluate the information, authors and citations myself. And give me an opportunity to surf to interesting side topics.