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pjacobi

Active Member
Time of past OR future Camino
2015, St. Jean Pied de Port to Burgos
2016, Burgos to Ponferrada
2017, Ponferrada to Atlantic Ocean
Note from the mods: we’ve taken comments from another thread to this separate thread since it seems to be a topic of some interest

The correct spelling is "Camino", not "Camiño".

Yes, the little ~ makes a difference! The famous example is:

año = year
ano = anus


-Paul
 
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The correct spelling is "Camino", not "Camiño".

Yes, the little ~ makes a difference! The famous example is:

año = year
ano = anus


-Paul
We get all kinds of cod-Spanish spelling on here, generally from people trying to do the right thing. Many of my Spanish friends struggle with where to put the accents in writing (although the pronunciation is generally a giveaway). Maybe we just need to get our cabezas out of our anos and go with the flow?
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
My opinion is that "Camiño" is also a correct spelling because Santiago is in Galicia. In Galicia the Xunta uses much more " Camiño" than "Camino".
An excellent observation. And often a hotly disputed topic: Which foreign word should be used and adopted in English (or French or German for that matter) when there are several foreign local languages involved for denoting a placename for example? Should the spelling of the majority language be used or the spelling of the minority language 😊, such as here: Camino (es) or Camiño (ga)?

The earlier example given (ano and año) is actually totally irrelevant because it is about spelling of words in one single language, in this case Spanish. Different thing.

PS: And besides, every effort to produce these foreign squiggles on a US or UK keyboard ought to applauded. So what if it says Camiño in the thread title, we all know what is meant. Here we have one squiggle too many, at other times there's something missing like Camino Frances instead of Camino Francés. Always better than Camino Francis which we mostly tolerate, too. 😇
 
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The correct spelling is "Camino", not "Camiño".

Yes, the little ~ makes a difference! The famous example is:

año = year
ano = anus


-Paul
Paul,
Glad you pointed this out. I'm bilingual and couldn't figure resolve this. Thought it might be some special in-group expression.
 
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Just curious if you think there is a point where Camiño can be unhealthy either physically or mentally? Or it can become to much with to much time or effort committed to it

I recognize it will be different for everyone. I haven’t found my limit yet. Just back from a long Camiño and planning another next winter. Thinking maybe I need more ways to find joy in life instead of using memories and future planning. Maybe I need more of a live in the moment approach.

And truthfully my body is a little wrecked from walking. Three weeks since I stopped walking and still aches and pains. As a daily yoga practitioner walking drastically effected my body. It will be a long time before I get my yoga strength and flexibility back.

Mentally the walk effected me too. I am much more peaceful and hide behind a smile People don’t understand but surprisingly I am much less tolerant of bad action or dumb behavior so I’m quicker to frustration, disbelief or even anger. I shake my head a lot.

Despite this though I don’t think I’ve found my limit and happily research next winters routes, new gear and how I can apply lessons from last Camiño to the next one. And thoughts of Camiño are frequently on my mind and I happily carry my Camiño smile even when dealing with the aches and pains, decreased flexibility, and increased frustration
It's camino, not camiño! (Can be complicated because the Português word is caminho, which is pronounced more or less as if there were a tilde, but in Spanish, it's just camino.
 
We get all kinds of cod-Spanish spelling on here, generally from people trying to do the right thing. Many of my Spanish friends struggle with where to put the accents in writing (although the pronunciation is generally a giveaway). Maybe we just need to get our cabezas out of our anos and go with the flow?
My phone has often auto-corrected that specific spelling. I had no idea if it was correct or not! If only I could figure out how to make it stop!
 
My phone has often auto-corrected that specific spelling. I had no idea if it was correct or not! If only I could figure out how to make it stop!
The ways of autocorrect passeth understanding. My autocorrect consistently changes "this" to "thus". I know I don't tend to write super informally, but surely "this" is more common than "thus".

Interestingly, the word "write" above was autocorrected to "wrote". I don't think it is ever correct English to start a sentence "I know I don't tend to wrote...".
 
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The correct spelling is "Camino", not "Camiño".
My opinion is that "Camiño" is also a correct spelling because Santiago is in Galicia. In Galicia the Xunta uses much more " Camiño" than "Camino".
It's camino, not camiño! (Can be complicated because the Português word is caminho,
You may be fascinated to know that a spelling sub-committe of 3 moderators had a special meeting to discuss the thread title, within minutes of it being posted. We agreed to leave that spelling as it is correct in Gallego.

We often correct spelling in thread titles because it helps the searches. (Possibly also because misspellings are annoying to see in the titles.) The all-time worst are the incorrect versions of "albergue."
 
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Regionally it can be Camiño, and some particular routes of the Way of Saint James can be called Camiño de XYZ rather than Camino, and are properly referred to with that spelling.

But we do generally default to the Castilian Spanish norm Camino or sometimes Portuguese Caminho.
 
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The all-time worst are the incorrect versions of "albergue."
"Compostela" runs a close second. (Hint - there is only one L - it's a different pronunciation with two Ls)

Which brings us to mispronunciations of many place names and words like Estella, Cee, Poo, estrella, jamón, etc
 
You may be fascinated to know that a spelling sub-committe of 3 moderators had a special meeting to discuss the thread title, within minutes of it being posted. We agreed to leave that spelling as it is correct in Gallego.
You are great !!
In "Camiño dos Faros", Camiño is clearly better because If you put " Camino dos Faros" it is easier to think that there are only two lighthouses on the route.
 
You may be fascinated to know that a spelling sub-committe of 3 moderators had a special meeting to discuss the thread title, within minutes of it being posted. We agreed to leave that spelling as it is correct in Gallego.

We often correct spelling in thread titles because it helps the searches. (Possibly also because misspellings are annoying to see in the titles.) The all-time worst are the incorrect versions of "albergue."

I must say I get a bit annoyed by the misspelling of the word albergue ( alburque ! ) but then I realise that you all are very understanding when I make some silly mistakes here when writing in English ;) .
 
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Camiño is correct... in Galician.

And while 'año' and 'ano' are both Spanish words and mean very different things, there is no Spanish word 'Camiño'. So, if you say 'Camiño' you're not saying something different; you're just not using Spanish.
 
There are often valid alternatives in spelling and vocabulary. Especially in an international forum. Should we all be obliged to use the UK or the US variants of English words exclusively? Does the Via de la Plata start in Sevilla or Seville? And do we need a blanket policy on using only SI weights and measures too? One of the less liberal aspects of Spanish government policy in the past was the active suppression of regional languages and the attempt to impose a single language on the entire country. Personally I'm happy to live with a bit of inconsistency if it reflects current reality! :cool:
 
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One of the less liberal aspects of Spanish government policy in the past was the active suppression of regional languages and the attempt to impose a single language on the entire country. Personally I'm happy to live with a bit of inconsistency if it reflects current reality! :cool:
In Franco times everybody in Spain "spoke Spanish", thing that was not true in Galicia. In the rural many children heard Spanish for their first time at school.
Teacher: Cuantos años tienes Pepe?
(Pepe, how old are you?)
Pepe: Teño dous un branco e outro negro.
(I have two, one white and other black).
año = lamb in Galician.
 
The speech to text feature on gmail, which is how I record my diary, passeth even more understanding. It clearly knows that I like Shakespeare as every small settlement I mentioned became a capitalised Hamlet. “Route” was consistently written as “root” (or sometimes, randomly, Root) until I tried saying it with an American accent, but then I could not get my head round describing how the wood working technique climbed up to the ridge.

Albergue persistently defeated it, no matter how I spoke. My nightly accommodation included all bare guys, Alberta gays, and Alba okay. On one memorable occasion I spent a comfortable night in an owl burger.
 
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Spellchecker isn't working properlee anyway :p

People need to think and ponder a bit before getting riled up with stuff like spelling mistakes, grammar , sarcasm and perceived tone.
De acuerdo. I agree. Simple as that. I say that as a native English speaker, though not English by birth. Also, as a late beginner in Castellano.
People, there is no entrance exam in spelling to what is truly important!
 
There are often valid alternatives in spelling and vocabulary. Especially in an international forum. Should we all be obliged to use the UK or the US variants of English words exclusively? Does the Via de la Plata start in Sevilla or Seville? And do we need a blanket policy on using only SI weights and measures too? One of the less liberal aspects of Spanish government policy in the past was the active suppression of regional languages and the attempt to impose a single language on the entire country. Personally I'm happy to live with a bit of inconsistency if it reflects current reality! :cool:
All that is what keeps the Spelling Sub-Committee busy when there are no more exciting issues on the forum!
 
Camiño is correct... in Galician.

And while 'año' and 'ano' are both Spanish words and mean very different things, there is no Spanish word 'Camiño'. So, if you say 'Camiño' you're not saying something different; you're just not using Spanish.
I used to occasionally contract out to a translator when I needed to do texts in Castellano, and she (PhD and MA in Spanish, and two books under her belt) would always remind me that there are four languages in Spain; Euzkadi, Catalan, Castellano, and Gallego. So the Galician word Camiño would qualify as a Spanish word, but not a Castilian word-- a quick text to her has just confirmed this.

I once encountered some Basque teachers who were picknicking east of Zarautz, who told me that I should as an English-speaker, use Saint Sebastian rather than the Castilian San Sebastian-- they did not expect me to use the Euzkadi word Donostia as few would know what I meant, but at least I would not be guilty of using the centralizing Castellano San Sebastian.
 
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I used to occasionally contract out to a translator when I needed to do texts in Castellano, and she (PhD and MA in Spanish, and two books under her belt) would always remind me that there are four languages in Spain; Euzkadi, Catalan, Castellano, and Gallego. So the Galician word Camiño would qualify as a Spanish word, but not a Castilian word-- a quick text to her has just confirmed this.

I once encountered some Basque teachers who were picknicking east of Zarautz, who told me that I should as an English-speaker, use Saint Sebastian rather than the Castilian San Sebastian-- they did not expect me to use the Euzkadi word Donostia as few would know what I meant, but at least I would not be guilty of using the centralizing Castellano San Sebastian.
'Español' and 'castellano' both refer to the common language spoken in Spain and many other countries, mainly in Latin America. 'Castellano' can also refer to the dialect of Spanish spoken in the region of Castilla.
Yes, 'euskera' (Euskadi is the name of the region, not the language), 'catalán, castellano' and 'galego' are all languages of Spain. Saying that 'Camiño' is a Spanish word, while technically correct, can lead to misunderstanding, as it's not a word of the Spanish language (call it 'castellano' if you prefer).
For the record, I have a background in linguistics and I am a native speaker of Galician.
 
'Español' and 'castellano' both refer to the common language spoken in Spain and many other countries, mainly in Latin America. 'Castellano' can also refer to the dialect of Spanish spoken in the region of Castilla.
Yes, 'euskera' (Euskadi is the name of the region, not the language), 'catalán, castellano' and 'galego' are all languages of Spain. Saying that 'Camiño' is a Spanish word, while technically correct, can lead to misunderstanding, as it's not a word of the Spanish language (call it 'castellano' if you prefer).
For the record, I have a background in linguistics and I am a native speaker of Galician.
I should have double-checked about the name of the Basque language (and the spelling of galego!)-- at my age, memory is not as reliable as I liked. In my travels in Catalonia and the Basque Lands, I learned that language and identity are contested issues in Spain and this exchange simply confirms that. My own practice is to refer to Spanish when I am discussing the language in Canada, but castellano when in Spain.
In a slightly related matter, a Californian friend with whom I walked the Primitivo some years ago felt that guidebooks should instruct us in the meaning of Muyeres and Homes signs, although I told him that I thought that the significance was pretty clear.
 
In a slightly related matter, a Californian friend with whom I walked the Primitivo some years ago felt that guidebooks should instruct us in the meaning of Muyeres and Homes signs, although I told him that I thought that the significance was pretty clear.
I would love a guidebook that had a pronunciation guide to place names. Even better would be an app with a short audio recording of place names.
 
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In a slightly related matter, a Californian friend with whom I walked the Primitivo some years ago felt that guidebooks should instruct us in the meaning of Muyeres and Homes signs, although I told him that I thought that the significance was pretty clear.
Muyeres in Asturias, Mulleres in Galicia.
 
I must say I get a bit annoyed by the misspelling of the word albergue ( alburque ! ) but then I realise that you all are very understanding when I make some silly mistakes here when writing in English ;) .
I have always been completely baffled by the very frequent ‘alburque’ spelling on the forum. Why is it misspelled this way so often?
 
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Phonetics. Lots of people speak it as they see it. Geeeee (G) becomes Guh

Kay (k) becomes Kuh etc

Most speak it better than they can type it or read it and vice versa. My Spanish is all over the place like my French ( i try very hard ) but my typing is worse than my spelling. English isn't so easy I am often told
 
I used to occasionally contract out to a translator when I needed to do texts in Castellano, and she (PhD and MA in Spanish, and two books under her belt) would always remind me that there are four languages in Spain; Euzkadi, Catalan, Castellano, and Gallego. So the Galician word Camiño would qualify as a Spanish word, but not a Castilian word-- a quick text to her has just confirmed this.
Yes -- but there are also regional and local dialects of Castilian that have Camiño. Unusual, but I have come across it in Western Castilia y León -- though I suppose it may be more Leonese than Castiliano.

Otherwise :
 
My own practice is to refer to Spanish when I am discussing the language in Canada, but castellano when in Spain.
This has become a lot less of a political hot potato nowadays.

I've found that generally in the 2020s, Spaniards of all regions, even the most separatist, are a lot more comfortable with Español referring either to the Nation State and the generalities that belong to it and to all Spaniards or to the official "Castilian" language.

Perhaps this is due to the fact that regional Castellano is starting to diverge somewhat from the official Spanish. Not nearly so much as regional Toscano has diverged from Italian, but there's starting to be some perceptible difference between the general Spanish parlance and Castellano as spoken out in the sticks.

I did anyway find last year on my Camino well off the beaten tracks in Castilia that Castellano refers more and more often to a particular dialect of Spanish spoken in that region than to the Spanish language in general. There are almost no differences between them, and you need a fine ear to even perceive them (in practice they are entirely interchangeable), but pronunciation is subtly different, and there are minor vocabulary differences.

Apart from the regional languages, there are also regional parlances of Spanish -- I first learned my own Spanish in Catalonia in the 1970s, so that for example I will always write Camino Francès ; and not the "proper" Francés.
 
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Yes -- but there are also regional and local dialects of Castilian that have Camiño. Unusual, but I have come across it in Western Castilia y León -- though I suppose it may be more Leonese than Castiliano.
You could have heard "Camiño" in Lubián (Camino Sanabrés) or in Vega de Valcarce (CF). This is not Leonés (almost extinct), it is Galego. Galego is also spoken in those areas. In Astur- Leonés would be "Camín".
 
You could have heard "Camiño" in Lubián (Camino Sanabrés) or in Vega de Valcarce (CF). This is not Leonés (almost extinct), it is Galego. Galego is also spoken in those areas. In Astur- Leonés would be "Camín".
But when I say that I have come across it in Western Castilia y León it means precisely that. I am unlikely to confuse Gallego with Spanish.

And nowhere near Galicia BTW, but closer to Salamanca and Portugal.
 
To hear how to pronounce albergue click on the speaker icon next to the word in this link
Or scroll down on the link for a short video clip.
 
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AL-ber-gay!
I use spanishdict.com frequently for syllabication and pronounciation. The spanishdict phoentic alhpabet (SPA) is easier than the (IPA) for me. I am just curious and not a linquist.

ahl-behr-geh



tulengua.es is also another useful site.
 
One more plug for spanishdict pronounciation is that it shows both the Latin American and Spanish pronounciations ... think "th" for c and z. You can watch the videos of the speakers pronouncing the words.

kahl-seh-teen (LATAM) vs. kahl-theh-teen (SPAIN)


 
I would love a guidebook that had a pronunciation guide to place names. Even better would be an app with a short audio recording of place names.
I created some quizlets after I completed my hospitalero training. One of the folders had the place names for the Francés by stage. You can play or listen to the Quizlet pronounciation ... it would be better in a native speaker's voice. I may update the cards to include the SPA phonetic spelling or add them to my Hospitalero Dictionary


Basic Dictionary for Hospitaleros

Basic Dictionary for Hospitaleros - Quizlet (Flashcards)
 
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ahl-behr-geh

Consistent with your post, emphasizing the penultimate syllable in Castilian words, by default (i.e. in the absence of an accent mark on a different syllable), is the doctrine I received when being taught Spanish in Canada by purportedly-qualified Community-College teaching masters who said their first language was Latin-American Spanish. That doctrine also stated that if a different syllable is accent-marked then that is the syllable that shall be emphasized.

I am reporting, not prescribing.

Edit: In the next comment in this thread, Trecile promptly brought attention to two additional rules of syllabic emphasis, and was very right to do so. Thank you, Trecile. In fairness to my college teaching masters, they almost certainly correctly taught us all of the rules of syllabic emphasis, spelling, grammar, verb conjugation, and etc. It was a long time ago. Over the decades, to my regret I have forgotten many of them.
 
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Consistent with your post, emphasizing the penultimate syllable in Castilian words, by default (i.e. in the absence of an accent mark on a different syllable), is the doctrine I received when being taught Spanish in Canada by purportedly-qualified Community-College teaching masters who said their first language was Latin-American Spanish. That doctrine also stated that if a different syllable is accent-marked then that is the syllable that shall be emphasized.

I am reporting, not prescribing.
Absent an accent mark if a word ends in a vowel, an S or an N, then the stress is on the penultimate syllable, but if it ends in any other letter then the stress is on the last syllable.
 
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Re: calcetín
kahl-seh-teen (LATAM) vs. kahl-theh-teen (SPAIN)


That's interesting. I would have thought the stress would be on the accented syllable. Unless in this case the bold is not showing the stressed syllable.
 
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Re: calcetín

That's interesting. I would have thought the stress would be on the accented syllable. Unless in this case the bold is not showing the stressed syllable.
You're correct. That's exactly what is shown on SpanishDict. If @linkster wants to correct his post I'll delete these follow ups.

Screenshot_20230611_181135_Firefox.jpg
 
Re: calcetín

That's interesting. I would have thought the stress would be on the accented syllable. Unless in this case the bold is not showing the stressed syllable.
@David Tallan You are absolutely right! It was my error. It is my bluetooth keyboard ... that is my story and I am sticking with it. 🤣 My keyboard is definitely eating Js lately.

kahl-seh-teen (LATAM) vs. kahl-theh-teen (SPAIN)
 
I've been guilty of mispronouncing the word "albergue" (though usually not misspelling it) ... to the point of laughter from gracious hosts.

With so many learned people on this forum, maybe somebody will have thoughts: Does anyone know if the Spanish word "albergue" derives from Arabic? The sources I have found online suggest Latin roots, yet I am curious because when I studied Arabic, the prefix "al" was usually an indicator of loan words: algebra, alcohol, etc. I cannot find an etymological connection, so maybe it's one of those famous false cognates - but given the cultural connections, it's something I have always wondered.
 
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Thank you, dick bird, and please forgive my ignorance - what movie? I do not recognize the reference but would absolutely love to watch!!!

Auberge / aubergine is a kinda funny example in French - hostel or eggplant? :) No relation linguistically. I think it was Heidegger who got into trouble tracing etymologies and creating false matches between unrelated words? I am less familiar with Spanish; what little bits I have are from the Camino, piecemeal, hence my question about the word "albergue." Thanks so much.
 
With so many learned people on this forum, maybe somebody will have thoughts: Does anyone know if the Spanish word "albergue" derives from Arabic? The sources I have found online suggest Latin roots, yet I am curious because when I studied Arabic, the prefix "al" was usually an indicator of loan words: algebra, alcohol, etc. I cannot find an etymological connection, so maybe it's one of those famous false cognates - but given the cultural connections, it's something I have always wondered.
It isn't.

I looked it up, and it has a complex origin. It seems to have a Gallo-Roman origin, i.e. dialectal Late Latin, and an albergare meaning to harbour, to shelter -- and indeed the word harbour is derived from the same origin, as are some Flemish words similar to harbour. It went into Spanish via a Provençal/Occitanian alberge then Middle French verb alberger (> noun auberge) then Spanish albergue -- though there is also a French verb herbergier > héberger from the same root. The English harbour and French héberger are more visibly related than harbour / albergue, but they're all from that same Gallo-Roman origin.

What's interesting is that given the period when this happened, the word may have been literally "carried" into Spanish by pilgrims and settlers from France along the French Way (the Camino Francès is named so not so much for its origins in France nor the French pilgrims, but rather from the many French-speaking new villages that sprung up upon its route, and some of their vocabulary ended up in the Castilian that they eventually switched to).

Whether it had some Gaulish origin or if it derived in Gallo-Roman from a germanic form is simply a matter for conjecture.
 
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What's interesting is that given the period when this happened, the word may have been literally "carried" into Spanish by pilgrims and settlers from France along the French Way (the Camino Francès is named so not so much for its origins in France nor the French pilgrims, but rather from the many French-speaking new villages that sprung up upon its route, and some of their vocabulary ended up in the Castilian that they eventually switched to).

Whether it had some Gaulish origin or if it derived in Gallo-Roman from a germanic form is simply a matter for conjecture.
Super interesting, JabbaPapa, thank you!
 
aubergine
I'm guessing that comes from brinjal, presumably Hindi as it features on the menu of every Indian restaurant I've ever been in. It is berenjana in Castillian Spanish and beringela in Portuguese (which sounds fairly similar to brinjal). The movie was 'Call Me By Your Name'.
 
I will n
I've been guilty of mispronouncing the word "albergue" (though usually not misspelling it) ... to the point of laughter from gracious hosts.

With so many learned people on this forum, maybe somebody will have thoughts: Does anyone know if the Spanish word "albergue" derives from Arabic? The sources I have found online suggest Latin roots, yet I am curious because when I studied Arabic, the prefix "al" was usually an indicator of loan words: algebra, alcohol, etc. I cannot find an etymological connection, so maybe it's one of those famous false cognates - but given the cultural connections, it's something I have always wondered.
I won't waste time theorising, just looked this up and offer it here. I like the link to harbour, although the spelling is harbor in the article! 😈
Harbour: safe place.
As I have said before - there are actually no prizes for correct spelling (and I am a teacher, well retired, but you can't snuff it out!) - nor indeed for pronunciation. In my long enough life, the key to connection is flexibility, and ability to wait and see if light can be shed in the effort to communicate. There is nothing so sure that it needs to silence anyone.
 
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It isn't.

I looked it up, and it has a complex origin. It seems to have a Gallo-Roman origin, i.e. dialectal Late Latin, and an albergare meaning to harbour, to shelter -- and indeed the word harbour is derived from the same origin, as are some Flemish words similar to harbour. It went into Spanish via a Provençal/Occitanian alberge then Middle French verb alberger (> noun auberge) then Spanish albergue -- though there is also a French verb herbergier > héberger from the same root. The English harbour and French héberger are more visibly related than harbour / albergue, but they're all from that same Gallo-Roman origin.

What's interesting is that given the period when this happened, the word may have been literally "carried" into Spanish by pilgrims and settlers from France along the French Way (the Camino Francès is named so not so much for its origins in France nor the French pilgrims, but rather from the many French-speaking new villages that sprung up upon its route, and some of their vocabulary ended up in the Castilian that they eventually switched to).

Whether it had some Gaulish origin or if it derived in Gallo-Roman from a germanic form is simply a matter for conjecture.
The Dutch/Flemish word is herberg
 
"Compostela" runs a close second. (Hint - there is only one L - it's a different pronunciation with two Ls)

Which brings us to mispronunciations of many place names and words like Estella, Cee, Poo, estrella, jamón, etc
Personally, I find the myriad mangled versions of St-Jean-Pied-de-Port particularly infuriating.
 
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Spellchecker isn't working properlee anyway :p

People need to think and ponder a bit before getting riled up with stuff like spelling mistakes, grammar , sarcasm and perceived tone.
Yes, innocent mistakes are made by innocent people.
Me? I'm more of an apostrophe nerd 😁
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
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I've made a couple of posts this morning. I wanted to add a few words to one of them and discovered that there is no option to edit the post. Is this a temporary glitch or a permanent change? Or...
Just to thank you Ivar for prompt message, and all the best in the unenviable task of cleaning out the spammers...

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