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Long term visa for Europe?

Brent Macdonald

Squamish Walker
Time of past OR future Camino
- Primitivo - Muxia 2023
- Full Francingena 2024
Hello everyone - I’ve committed myself to walking the full via francingena in sept 2024 Canterbury to Santa Marie di Leuca

I think i can walk it between 100-120 days I believe I need to get a visa for stays over 90 days as a Canadian and need to get it stamped when I first enter a Schengen country which I believe will be France now.

Is it easy to get it stamped in Calais getting off the ferry?

Any information, ideas or thoughts is greatly appreciated! I will finish a few months before I turn 60 and am looking forward to the journey!

Thanks for your time - Brent
 
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Hello everyone - I’ve committed myself to walking the full via francingena in sept 2024 Canterbury to Santa Marie di Leuca

I think i can walk it between 100-120 days I believe I need to get a visa for stays over 90 days as a Canadian and need to get it stamped when I first enter a Schengen country which I believe will be France now.

Is it easy to get it stamped in Calais getting off the ferry?

Any information, ideas or thoughts is greatly appreciated! I will finish a few months before I turn 60 and am looking forward to the journey!

Thanks for your time - Brent
‘Easy’ is a good word. ‘Unavoidable’ is better!

Entering from the UK (a non-Schengen county) you will be stamped as a matter of course.
 
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Having enquired about this in the past, it'll be a challenge to get a tourist visa for 4 months.

AFAIK there are no tourist visas that allow for a stay longer than 90 days in any 180 day period in the Schengen free travel area. The way it's counted is, on the date of entering the Schengen free travel area (in your case in Calais) you count 180 days back. Make the sum of all prior uninterrupted stays (= a) (in this case a= 0) and add the planned duration of your current stay (=b). the sum of a+b must be equal to or less than 90 days. Bear in mind that a stay that straddles the today-180 days point has to be counted in its entirety,

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/ gives you an idea but is a bit fuzzy.

You should enquire at the French embassy or the closest French consulate to confirm, though from experience consular staff is not always knowledgeable as they should in this regard.
 
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As a Canadian it looks like if you can walk across France within 90 days you can continue walking another 3 months or 90 days in Italy using an old biteral visa waiver treaty. Check with Italy's embassy or consulates in Canada.

Use this for your entry point on getting more information:
 
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If taking the Ferry to Calais all passport checks and stamps are carried by French authorities in Dover, then when you arrive in Calais you just head off, being a Canadian I presume it will be the same.. Some ferry companies don’t allow pedestrians but if you have a bicycle you’re ok.. something else to check..
 
Hello everyone - I’ve committed myself to walking the full via francingena in sept 2024 Canterbury to Santa Marie di Leuca

I think i can walk it between 100-120 days I believe I need to get a visa for stays over 90 days as a Canadian and need to get it stamped when I first enter a Schengen country which I believe will be France now.

Is it easy to get it stamped in Calais getting off the ferry?

Any information, ideas or thoughts is greatly appreciated! I will finish a few months before I turn 60 and am looking forward to the journey!

Thanks for your time - Brent
It will be stamped before you get on the ferry by French border control
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
As a Canadian it looks like if you can walk across France within 90 days you can continue walking another 3 months or 90 days in Italy using an old biteral visa waiver treaty. Check with Italy's embassy or consulates in Canada.

Use this for your entry point on getting more information:
SO if I understand correctly, I could jump from country to country based on the old agreements and stay in Europe longer than 90 days. I just can not stay in any one country longer than they allowed in this document, assuming they are listed in this with existing old bilateral agreements. Sound right?
 
SO if I understand correctly, I could jump from country to country based on the old agreements and stay in Europe longer than 90 days. I just can not stay in any one country longer than they allowed in this document, assuming they are listed in this with existing old bilateral agreements. Sound right?
No... The Schengen area is one thing, and you can only be in the Schengen area 90 out of 180 days... 10 days in Spain, 10 in PT, 10 In Italy counts as 30 days of your 90.
We're researching this heavily and have run into very little about "old agreements"... And, like every other agreement, they are only good until they are no longer good... I sincerely hope that I am wrong as it would make life easier for our 4 month stay starting in August, but we are counting on leaving for Romania for 30-40 days, which adds a little twist because Romania is applying to be accepted into the Schengen as we speak...
 
SO if I understand correctly, I could jump from country to country based on the old agreements and stay in Europe longer than 90 days. I just can not stay in any one country longer than they allowed in this document, assuming they are listed in this with existing old bilateral agreements. Sound right?
No. You must first check with the embassies or consulates before leaving home to get permissions, instructions, visas or waivers. For example, they may say that their end of the bilateral treaty is fulfilled by your 90 day Schengen allowance. Or if they do allow a stay after you reached your 90 day Schengen allowance you may have to enter from another country (i.e., not already be present in their country). They may even specify whether you must enter or exit by land or air. Mention the bilateral treaty when you inquire though so they don't automatically just give you the Schengen rules.

Here's what I wrote above but with emphasis I should have added:
As a Canadian it looks like if you can walk across France within 90 days you can continue walking another 3 months or 90 days in Italy using an old biteral visa waiver treaty. Check with Italy's embassy or consulates in Canada.
 
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Most of the bilateral visa agreements were made before Schengen. It's a legal gray area and some countries may or may not honor the old agreement. Front line immigration officials may be unaware of any bilateral agreements so be prepared for additional scrutiny. How much time will be wasted attempting to prove your case? Maybe you'll get lucky, maybe not. I'd hate to plan a trip with such a legal jeopardy.


-Paul
 
Brent, I admire your bravado, committing yourself to doing something which is to all intents and purposes illegal then asking this forum to find you a loophole!
It may be worth you researching the possibility of a visa which permits you to stay beyond the 90-day Schengen allowance. But, others have also researched this and have been discouraged by the lack of precedents and by the seemingly impenetrable bureaucracy which would have to be overcome especially when, after months of form filling and email chasing, you may still get the answer 'No'!
Schengen is a pooling of immigration and border controls by many European countries, but each country (sometimes each border guard!) retains its own autonomy for most purposes, and has its own interpretation of how rare exceptions to the Schengen limits might apply.
You *would* be able to fulfil your ambition/commitment by walking from (say) Canterbury to Rome in one hit of fewer than 90 days, taking a three month break out of the Schengen zone (eg in Ireland, the UK or Romania), then returning to Rome to complete your journey to Santa Maria de Leuca.
I'm a Brit and am limited by similar visa challenges. I will walk from London to Rome this year and perhaps walk South from Rome another year.
Good luck!
 
Brent, I admire your bravado, committing yourself to doing something which is to all intents and purposes illegal then asking this forum to find you a loophole!
It may be worth you researching the possibility of a visa which permits you to stay beyond the 90-day Schengen allowance. But, others have also researched this and have been discouraged by the lack of precedents and by the seemingly impenetrable bureaucracy which would have to be overcome especially when, after months of form filling and email chasing, you may still get the answer 'No'!
Schengen is a pooling of immigration and border controls by many European countries, but each country (sometimes each border guard!) retains its own autonomy for most purposes, and has its own interpretation of how rare exceptions to the Schengen limits might apply.
You *would* be able to fulfil your ambition/commitment by walking from (say) Canterbury to Rome in one hit of fewer than 90 days, taking a three month break out of the Schengen zone (eg in Ireland, the UK or Romania), then returning to Rome to complete your journey to Santa Maria de Leuca.
I'm a Brit and am limited by similar visa challenges. I will walk from London to Rome this year and perhaps walk South from Rome another year.
Good luck!
It’s not necessarily illegal, nor a loophole - but it’s certainly complicated!

Previous examples where a prior bilateral allowed >90 days in what is now a Schengen country appeared to start both clocks running simultaneously so if ( for example) one was permitted 100 days in Spain, days 91-100 could only be spent in Spain and not in any other Schengen country.

The OP has correctly been advised to consult the proper authorities and certainly not me!

At least they are not burdened with the regret that they once had the right to travel throughout Schengen at will for unlimited time as you and I did.
 
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It has been done, legally, by some people. However, as @Rick of Rick and Peg said you need to get your own advice from the embassies involved before you travel.

Preferably get that advice in writing and carry it with you to show any officials who may not have all the details.

You will also need to document your stay by keeping accommodation records and similar receipts. Typically, these days, if you cross a border via road or rail then you will probably not encounter border controls and so you will have difficulties proving dates of entry and exit. You may need to fly between countries or certainly one question to ask the embassies is how you can prove entry and exit without border control. They will probably have some ideas.

You also need to carefully watch how you move from country to country and be sure that you don't transit a country without an agreement even if that is in the transit area of an airport.

If you do your homework well and plan your trip meticulously then it is possible.
 
You also need to carefully watch how you move from country to country and be sure that you don't transit a country without an agreement even if that is in the transit area of an airport.
Yes, I've read of an American businessman leaving a Schengen country where he had a extra stay but got caught in transit at a Swiss airport. He ended up having a hard and expensive time with lawyers getting permission to visit the Schengen zone again.

One reason why the "extra" country may want you to fly in. Say leave Schengen country X to non-Schengen county Y to fly into Schengen destination country Y. Passport control at the airport may know your extra stay situation better than land border control officials (if there are even any).
 
If taking the Ferry to Calais all passport checks and stamps are carried by French authorities in Dover, then when you arrive in Calais you just head off, being a Canadian I presume it will be the same.. Some ferry companies don’t allow pedestrians but if you have a bicycle you’re ok.. something else to check..
This is the normal dodge -- and if you time it right (late night crossing), potentially no exit check either.

I guess if your passport gets stamped at the Channel crossing, deliberately get it stamped when you reach Switzerland ?

As to the other countries, crossing land borders on foot avoids most hassle.

It's certainly annoying that the 90/180 rule imposed by the UK persists after Brexit, but there you go.
 
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I guess if your passport gets stamped at the Channel crossing, deliberately get it stamped when you reach Switzerland ?
Switzerland, although not part of the EU, is part of Schengen, along with Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein.

¨It's certainly annoying that the 90/180 rule imposed by the UK persists after Brexit, but there you go.¨ This rule is imposed on the UK, not by it.
 
If taking the Ferry to Calais all passport checks and stamps are carried by French authorities in Dover, then when you arrive in Calais you just head off, being a Canadian I presume it will be the same.. Some ferry companies don’t allow pedestrians but if you have a bicycle you’re ok.. something else to check..
The French authorities will certainly check your passport in Dover, and if it is Canadian, stamp it.
 
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SO if I understand correctly, I could jump from country to country based on the old agreements and stay in Europe longer than 90 days. I just can not stay in any one country longer than they allowed in this document, assuming they are listed in this with existing old bilateral agreements. Sound right?
Wow - I’ll look into that - thank you!
 
Thanks for all the advice - I in no way intend to violate any international law :)

I have contacted the Italian Consulate here for an interview and will see what they say - fingers crossed - it does look like it’s searching for a unicorn but I’ll fight the fight. If I cannot get an extension on the 90 days I’ll look at the possibility of doing it in under 90 days or maybe just going to Rome i guess - that would be a bit of a let down but still a great journey - thanks everyone - cheers
 
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Thanks for all the advice - I in no way intend to violate any international law :)

I have contacted the Italian Consulate here for an interview and will see what they say - fingers crossed - it does look like it’s searching for a unicorn but I’ll fight the fight. If I cannot get an extension on the 90 days I’ll look at the possibility of doing it in under 90 days or maybe just going to Rome i guess - that would be a bit of a let down but still a great journey - thanks everyone - cheers
Good luck, buen camino.
 
¨It's certainly annoying that the 90/180 rule imposed by the UK persists after Brexit, but there you go.¨ This rule is imposed on the UK, not by it.
I meant that this rule was insisted on by the Brits when they were in the EU. And yes it's ironic. Just clarifying my meaning, and I'm not discussing this any further.
 
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Thanks for all the advice - I in no way intend to violate any international law :)

I have contacted the Italian Consulate here for an interview and will see what they say - fingers crossed - it does look like it’s searching for a unicorn but I’ll fight the fight. If I cannot get an extension on the 90 days I’ll look at the possibility of doing it in under 90 days or maybe just going to Rome i guess - that would be a bit of a let down but still a great journey - thanks everyone - cheers
Good luck with the research and negotiations, Brent! Wishing you an epic walk, wherever it takes you.
 
AFAIK there are no tourist visas that allow for a stay longer than 90 days in any 180 day period in the Schengen free travel area.
Coming from Canada, no visa is needed. The 90/180 rule you described applies if you come without a visa. Otherwise, there are many sorts of visas available. If you need more than ninety days, you apply for a visa (I think they call it "type D" for the country you are going to spend the most time in. Then you are on the 90/180 rule for the other Schengen countries. If you need more than 180 days total, you need visas for at least two of the countries. Best to discuss exactly what you plan to do with the nearest consulate for one or more of the countries involved. Or ask at https://travel.stackexchange.com/ —but provide more details than you gave here about your plans, lest some of the grumpier folks over there harass you for being vague.
 
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I meant that this rule was insisted on by the Brits when they were in the EU. And yes it's ironic. Just clarifying my meaning, and I'm not discussing this any further.
Oh Mate, hang on, the UK was never in Schengen. The 90/180 is a Schengen rule not an EU rule. It was overdid by EU rules on freedom of movement that expired on Brexit. And the idea that the “Brits”(?) could insist on the application of the rules of a club that they were never a member of is…. Words fail

Meanwhile, any person from a country that is not a member of the Schengen Agreement who wishes to spend more than 90 contiguous days within Schengen allied countries simply needs to apply for an appropriate visa. Difficult probably, tedious certainly, but certainly achievable.

Anyone who fancies a real challenge try getting a non-tourist visa for India, China, or, god forbid, the good ol’ U.S.A
 
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Since the non-role of the UK before and after Brexit in the context of Schengen law has needlessly been brought up in this thread that a Canadian national started with a question about long stay visas in the context of walking the Via Francigena in 2024 one might as well set the record straight for our captive overseas audience and present the view from our side (see last paragraph) :cool:. I guess we do have a right to reply?

The Schengen idea which includes the abolition of border checks for people and goods at border checkpoints was conceived nearly 40 years ago when the EU consisted of only 10 countries and Spain had not yet joined. The prime movers and shakers - Germany, France, and the Benelux countries - wanted to move ahead with economic integration while others, among them the UK and Denmark, were either not interested or generally opposed to the idea. That's why these 5 countries created a framework of international law, separate from the EU legal framework, which became the Schengen area. Much later and after numerous other EU countries had joined the Schengen concept, these laws were integrated into EU law.

While this legal framework was developed over the years with the help of new and innovative laws, the UK consistently opted out of them. Search EU legal database EurLex for the phrase "This Regulation constitutes a development of provisions of the Schengen acquis in which the United Kingdom does not take part" and you will find over a hundred of such laws. They also state "the United Kingdom is therefore not taking part in the adoption of this Regulation". The UK, by their own choice, had no role to play and no say in relation to all things Schengen.

During the negotiations about the legal framework for the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, various options were offered: stay in the EU Single Market; stay in the EU customs union; or join the NIL club of Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. The option of a system of separate agreements like the ones between the EU and Switzerland was not offered because this system has become too cumbersome. The UK was not interested and opted for becoming a third country, just like the USA, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand, and subsequently UK nationals moved to the same status as nationals from these countries (with a few exceptions for British people who already lived in the EU): they became third country nationals (TCN).

And that's not political talk, it's merely a summary of facts. You could look them up in Wikipedia for example. The keyword is Schengen acquis.

I am old enough that I still vividly remember the day when, on the motorway between two EU countries, you no longer had to slow down when approaching the border checkpoint; no longer had to turn into a lane on the right to pass the border police booths; no longer had to wrestle out your ID card or passport and awkwardly hold your short arm out of the car window and stretch as far as you could to hand it over to the border official for a check; no longer had to answer questions about any goods in your car - whether old and used own possessions or newly bought. You could just continue driving, straight on and at your usual speed, as if there was no national border. Yippiee! It felt great. It still does. 😀
 
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Oh Mate, hang on, the UK was never in Schengen
Yes I know.
And the idea that the “Brits”(?) could insist on the application of the rules of a club that they were never a member of is…. Words fail
But they did ... it was in the period when the Schengen treaty was being discussed, and the UK and some other countries insisted on the opt-out possibility, and the UK was one of those that insisted on the 90/180 rule as a part of that treaty -- that the UK was a signatory of.
Meanwhile, any person from a country that is not a member of the Schengen Agreement who wishes to spend more than 90 contiguous days within Schengen allied countries simply needs to apply for an appropriate visa. Difficult probably, tedious certainly, but certainly achievable.
Agreed, though easier in some countries than in others.
 
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For your general entertainment: Not one but two photos of the signature pages of the monumental 1985 Schengen Agreement. Which, as already explained at length, was negotiated and agreed outside of the EU (then EC) legal framework. It was a treaty between five countries as you can see on the signature pages and in this order: Belgium, Germany, France, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands.

BTW, I've just read through it and there is zero zilch nada in the text about a 90/180 days rule or a 3 months rule for non-EU travellers. It merely says that the five countries shall endeavour to harmonise their visa policies and conditions for entry into their territories, both as a short term and a long term goal. So, in any case, the Schengen Agreement is not where the 90/180 rule started.

Schengen Treaty.jpg
 
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https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32016R0399

Article 6

Entry conditions for third-country nationals

1. For intended stays on the territory of the Member States of a duration of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period, which entails considering the 180-day period preceding each day of stay, the entry conditions for third-country nationals shall be the following:

(a)they are in possession of a valid travel document entitling the holder to cross the border satisfying the following criteria:
(i)its validity shall extend at least three months after the intended date of departure from the territory of the Member States. In a justified case of emergency, this obligation may be waived;
(ii)it shall have been issued within the previous 10 years;
(b)they are in possession of a valid visa, if required pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 (25), except where they hold a valid residence permit or a valid long-stay visa;
(c)they justify the purpose and conditions of the intended stay, and they have sufficient means of subsistence, both for the duration of the intended stay and for the return to their country of origin or transit to a third country into which they are certain to be admitted, or are in a position to acquire such means lawfully;
(d)they are not persons for whom an alert has been issued in the SIS for the purposes of refusing entry;
(e)they are not considered to be a threat to public policy, internal security, public health or the international relations of any of the Member States, in particular where no alert has been issued in Member States’ national data bases for the purposes of refusing entry on the same grounds.

2. For the purposes of implementing paragraph 1, the date of entry shall be considered as the first day of stay on the territory of the Member States and the date of exit shall be considered as the last day of stay on the territory of the Member States. Periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States.

3. A non-exhaustive list of supporting documents which the border guard may request from the third-country national in order to verify the fulfilment of the conditions set out in paragraph 1 (c) is included in Annex I.

4. Means of subsistence shall be assessed in accordance with the duration and the purpose of the stay and by reference to average prices in the Member State(s) concerned for board and lodging in budget accommodation, multiplied by the number of days stayed.

Reference amounts set by the Member States shall be notified to the Commission in accordance with Article 39.

The assessment of sufficient means of subsistence may be based on the cash, travellers’ cheques and credit cards in the third-country national’s possession. Declarations of sponsorship, where such declarations are provided for by national law and letters of guarantee from hosts, as defined by national law, where the third-country national is staying with a host, may also constitute evidence of sufficient means of subsistence.

5. By way of derogation from paragraph 1:

(a)third-country nationals who do not fulfil all the conditions laid down in paragraph 1 but who hold a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall be authorised to enter the territory of the other Member States for transit purposes so that they may reach the territory of the Member State which issued the residence permit or the long-stay visa, unless their names are on the national list of alerts of the Member State whose external borders they are seeking to cross and the alert is accompanied by instructions to refuse entry or transit;
(b)third-country nationals who fulfil the conditions laid down in paragraph 1, except for that laid down in point (b), and who present themselves at the border may be authorised to enter the territory of the Member States, if a visa is issued at the border in accordance with Articles 35 and 36 of Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council (26).
Member States shall compile statistics on visas issued at the border in accordance with Article 46 of Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 and Annex XII thereto.
If it is not possible to affix a visa in the document, it shall, exceptionally, be affixed on a separate sheet inserted in the document. In such a case, the uniform format for forms for affixing the visa, laid down by Council Regulation (EC) No 333/2002 (27), shall be used;
(c)third-country nationals who do not fulfil one or more of the conditions laid down in paragraph 1 may be authorised by a Member State to enter its territory on humanitarian grounds, on grounds of national interest or because of international obligations. Where the third-country national concerned is the subject of an alert as referred to in paragraph 1(d), the Member State authorising him or her to enter its territory shall inform the other Member States accordingly.

------

There's a difference between the adoption of treaty principles and the implementation thereof in a practical sense.

As to the latter, it will be governed for pilgrims travelling in from outside the EU by ETIAS, which is a bit of a game changer, although it does not change the basic 90/180 rule nor this underlying law -- except that non-EU nationals resident in a EU country will seemingly be exempted from ETIAS.
 
If you need more than ninety days, you apply for a visa (I think they call it "type D" for the country you are going to spend the most time in.
There are no - to my knowledge - extensions for tourism visas/entries beyond 90 days in a 180 day period.
Visas for longer than 90 days are issued for studying at an accredited institution, compassionate grounds ( medical emergencies) and temporary residency in a specific country...
 
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