New travel requirement - US (and other countries) to Europe, 2024

[dbier]

Just a note to my fellow residents of Los Estados Unidos.

If nothing changes before January, beginning at that point, the European Union will require US citizens to obtain a general "visa" to countries in the European Union prior to boarding the plane to Europe. It's supposed to be an easy online process, but the European Union does state that it can take up to 30 days to issue said visa. Airlines are already being instructed to deny boarding if the traveler can't provide the proof.

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

 

[trecile]

Yes, this has been discussed quite often in the past. It will affect citizens of countries who currently don't require a visa to visit the EU, not just those from the US.

Here's the official website.

What is ETIAS

The rules of travel to Europe have changed. Starting in mid-2025, some 1.4 billion people from over 60 visa-exempt countries are required to have a travel authorisation to enter most European countries.

travel-europe.europa.eu

 

[Bradypus]

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

The planned system is very similar to the ESTA visa waiver system that the USA already applies to many countries. A fairly low-cost and straightforward electronic advance authorisation for travel. However there is no firm date for the start of the ETIAS programme. It has already been delayed over a number of years and may not come into play until well into next year. For the past few years there have been a lot of misleading private websites claiming to process ETIAS applications or offering inaccurate information about ETIAS - mostly aimed at persuading people to pay a premium to have their application submitted through a third-party website. I suggest that those like myself who will be entering the Schengen travel zone from a country where ETIAS will apply follow the link to the official website which @trecile just posted above.

 

[trecile]

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

Those reports would be incorrect since it applies to citizens of over 60 countries, not just the US.

 

[Kathar1na]

Oh yes, ETIAS is in the news again: CBS News, Washington Post, Fox, The Independent.

"On the horizon ...", "Starting in 2024 ..."

There has been no official announcement about a starting date. When ETIAS becomes finally operational, there will be a phasing-in period and a massive official information campaign. Until then it's actually no news.

And indeed, some news articles make it sound as if ETIAS will be put in place for US citizens only. In reality, it will apply to any non-EU national who wants to travel to an EU country and who benefits from the visa waiver program. In fact, to quote the official EU website, it will apply to 1.4 billion people from over 60 visa-exempt countries who will be required to have a travel authorisation to enter most European countries.

 

[Kathar1na]

Below is a quote from www.connexionfrance.com who are often better informed about such topics than many other news media.The quote refers to two new large IT systems that are connected; they have been in development for numerous years with many delays: EES and ETIAS.

The EU Commission is expected to give an update on the schemes’ rollout in October this year.​

and

Both systems have seen delays, and an update on the pathway to their release – originally expected to be given in July – is now expected in October 2023.

 

[ejg1890]

Here is the “official” page https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en.

It’s not mentioned on the site but I heard most requests will be approved within minutes. Also I don’t know if the request must be made for each trip or if the request is good for several years. A VISA is good for several years.

 

[Anamya]

A fair few countries recently started requiring visas from citizens other countries on the grounds of reciprocity (you require visas, we will require them back).
Brazil has adopted the same measures starting October this year for all Americans, Canadians, Australians and Japanese, requiring visas from them. It's annoying, but I kinda think it's fair.

 

[trecile]

Also I don’t know if the request must be made for each trip or if the request is good for several years.

According to the official site:


Validity period of your ETIAS
Your ETIAS travel authorisation is valid for three years or until the travel document you used in your application expires - whichever comes first.

 

[Kathar1na]

The information content on the official EU ETIAS website https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en is quite comprehensive. Scroll down to the FAQs and to the News corner section where you will read for example:

- ETIAS and the EES will not be launched at the same time. The EES will become operational first and ETIAS will follow a few months after. The exact dates will be announced by the EU later this year. (posted on 6 June 2023)​

- answer to the question whether the ETIAS travel authorisation is a resident permit or a visa (It isn't)​

- when to apply (They strongly advise travellers to obtain the ETIAS travel authorisation before you buy your tickets and book your hotels. Most applications will be processed within minutes and at the latest within 96 hours)​

​

- 7 myths and facts about ETIAS​

BTW, you will know when the EES (Entry/Exist System) has become fully operational: You will then no longer get these little stamps in your passports. A few months later, ETIAS is supposed to be operational for travellers.

 

[Kathar1na]

For history buffs : The first ETIAS thread was posted more than four years ago in March 2019; it had been prompted by a news article with the title Americans Will Need to Register to Visit Europe in 2021. The poster reported that UK will not require this ETIAS.

Oh, those were the days ... . That was then. Now is now and there will be no difference between US passport holders and UK passport holders, they will both have to get an ETIAS authorisation - most likely starting some time in 2024 but perhaps it will take us into 2025 before the system becomes fully operational and obligatory for visa-exempt travellers entering EU territory at airports in countries like Spain and France.

 

[t2andreo]

Just a note to my fellow residents of Los Estados Unidos.

If nothing changes before January, beginning at that point, the European Union will require US citizens to obtain a general "visa" to countries in the European Union prior to boarding the plane to Europe. It's supposed to be an easy online process, but the European Union does state that it can take up to 30 days to issue said visa. Airlines are already being instructed to deny boarding if the traveler can't provide the proof.

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

Just as an FYI, the US has had a near-identical scheme, called ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization), since around 2007. Before I retired in 2006, I was a member of the inter-agency group that was planning for this within the US Government.

This is not "tit for tat," per se. What it is, is an effort to know in advance who is planning to come. This is for EU member law enforcement and intelligence service reasons. It is wholly within the right of any country to do so.

The system will identify the few people who may have prior issues with EU countries, and who will be referred to a consulate to clear a matter up, or to obtain a formal visitor visa. An even smaller number of people will be rejected outright.

Remember, that, before visa free travel, nearly everyone had to obtain a visa for the single countries they were seeking to visit. This is easy peasy by comparison.

For nearly 100% of us, intending travelers, the biggest problem we will have is remembering to do the online process, and pay the minimal fee (that is good for three years), BEFORE we leave for the airport.

As it was mentioned above, the EU is already informing airlines worldwide that they will be responsible to deny boarding to folks who do not have the requisite receipt, transaction code, or QR code.

This is no big problem. Most of the articles I have read misstate the reality, They are making seem as though everyone needs an actual visa. That is incorrect. Nearly 100% of intending travelers just need the transaction receipt, code, etc. before going to the airport.

If you compare this to the COVID related hoops we all had to jump through in 2021 and 2022, this is nothing by comparison.

Just do it.

Hope this helps,

Tom

 

[shefollowsshells]

Just a note to my fellow residents of Los Estados Unidos.

If nothing changes before January, beginning at that point, the European Union will require US citizens to obtain a general "visa" to countries in the European Union prior to boarding the plane to Europe. It's supposed to be an easy online process, but the European Union does state that it can take up to 30 days to issue said visa. Airlines are already being instructed to deny boarding if the traveler can't provide the proof.

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

An inconvenience as a us citizen but I can’t blame the tit for tat, if such an obstacle is in place for our neighbors it’s only fair…

 

[TravellingMan22]

Just as an FYI, the US has had a near-identical scheme since around 2007.

This is not "tit for tat," pers se. What it is, is an effort to know in advance who is planning to come. This is for EU member law enforcement and intelligence service reasons. It is wholly within the right of any country to do so.

The system will identify the few people who may have prior issues with EU countries, and who will be referred to a consulate to clear a matter up, or to obtain a formal visitor visa. An even smaller number of people will be rejected outright.

Remember, that, before visa free travel, nearly everyone had to obtain a visa for the single countries they were seeking to visit. This is easy peasy by comparison.

For nearly 100% of us, intending travelers, the biggest problem we will have is remembering to do the online process and pay the minimal fee (that is good for three years) BEFORE we leave for the airport.

As it was mentioned above, the EU is already informing airlines worldwide that they will be responsible to deny border to folks who do not have the requisite receipt, transaction code, or QR code.

This is no big problem. Most of the articles I have read misstate the reality, They are making seem as though everyone needs an actual visa. That is incorrect, Nearly 100% of intending travelers just need the transaction receipt, code, etc. before going to the airport.

If you compare this to the COVID related hoops we all had to jump through in 2021 and 2022, this is nothing by comparison.

Just do it.

Hope this helps,

Tom

Yes from a UK/ Irish passport holder standpoint, the ESTA works very well and means we no longer have to fill in the I94 Visa Waiver form, but more importantly helps with security! I assume the EU version will be just as efficient!

 

[trecile]

An inconvenience as a us citizen but I can’t blame the tit for tat, if such an obstacle is in place for our neighbors it’s only fair…

But it's not tit for tat at all. Although this rule affects Americans it's not all about Americans.

 

[NorthernLight]

You will then no longer get these little stamps in your passports.

This will be a sad event, since every loves getting stamps.

Actually it will be sad, because those stamps are useful for calculating how many days were spent inside the Schenzen zone. Is there a law against making our own notation on those soon-to-be-empty pages of our entry @ exits? … off to research my country’s rules on that.

 

[Vacajoe]

To misquote Ted Lasso, “Don’t freak out until you find out”. These stories routinely resurface to generate online clicks even though nothing has significantly changed since the last time the story appeared. Sure, this WILL happen, but when it does I guarantee that you will be overwhelmed with warnings online, on tv, and, most importantly, from your airline when you buy your ticket since they are responsible for checking that your passport and visa info is correct. When it does get enacted, it’s simply another basic step and fee that you will have to do every few years - certainly nothing to stress over.

In short, I can accurately warn everyone that, “THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!” but if I mean that’s in a million years, you probably don’t have to worry about it right now.

 

[C clearly]

For nearly 100% of us, intending travelers, the biggest problem we will have is remembering to do the online process and pay the minimal fee (that is good for three years) BEFORE we leave for the airport.

Exactly.

 

[TravellingMan22]

To misquote Ted Lasso, “Don’t freak out until you find out”. These stories routinely resurface to generate online clicks even though nothing has significantly changed since the last time the story appeared. Sure, this WILL happen, but when it does I guarantee that you will be overwhelmed with warnings online, on tv, and, most importantly, from your airline when you buy your ticket since they are responsible for checking that your passport and visa info is correct. When it does get enacted, it’s simply another basic step and fee that you will have to do every few years - certainly nothing to stress over.

In short, I can accurately warn everyone that, “THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!” but if I mean that’s in a million years, you probably don’t have to worry about it right now.

100%. It’s no big deal. I need an online approval to travel to USA, Australia amongst others. Other than avoiding the online agents who will charge you a premium for the service (and keep you away from the official site) it’s no big deal!

 

[Alister M]

I am just surprised it has taken this long to get the system ready to go. The ESTA is the model. My last 2, in 2017 and 2023 were approved in 20 and 15 minutes respectively. A simple way of pre-approval of visitors and it made entry into the US very fast and painless on arrival. A quick passport scan and through to the baggage hall. I am sure Europe and the UK are aiming for the same with their systems. Like anything, it’s possible there will be early glitches but it will soon be easy and an obvious benefit.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I am just surprised it has taken this long to get the system ready to go. The ESTA is the model. My last 2, in 2017 and 2023 were approved in 20 and 15 minutes respectively. A simple way of pre-approval of visitors and it made entry into the US very fast and painless on arrival. A quick passport scan and through to the baggage hall. I am sure Europe and the UK are aiming for the same with their systems. Like anything, it’s possible there will be early glitches but it will soon be easy and an obvious benefit.

Am guessing there will be someone on this forum that can offer some insight! I guess it is a roll out across 20+ countries with all that entails re budgets, timescales and so on so that’s a tricky game!

Out of interest what do USA visitors need to get to travel to UK. I always see the auto gates at LHR but not sure what you need in terms of pre approval?

I hold up Australia as an example of how it should be for Uk costumers. Quick pre approval and e gates on arrival!

 

[Alister M]

Am guessing there will be someone on this forum that can offer some insight! I guess it is a roll out across 20+ countries with all that entails re budgets, timescales and so on so that’s a tricky game!

Out of interest what do USA visitors need to get to travel to UK. I always see the auto gates at LHR but not sure what you need in terms of pre approval?

I hold up Australia as an example of how it should be for Uk costumers. Quick pre approval and e gates on arrival!

At the moment people from the US don’t require pre-approval but the UK has announced a scheme similar to that of the EU to be rolled out on a similar timeline. I assume the process started pre-Brexit and the UK has simply developed its own version in the changed circumstances

 

[SBurgess]

The information content on the official EU ETIAS website https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en is quite comprehensive. Scroll down to the FAQs and to the News corner section where you will read for example:

- ETIAS and the EES will not be launched at the same time. The EES will become operational first and ETIAS will follow a few months after. The exact dates will be announced by the EU later this year. (posted on 6 June 2023)​

- answer to the question whether the ETIAS travel authorisation is a resident permit or a visa (It isn't)​

- when to apply (They strongly advise travellers to obtain the ETIAS travel authorisation before you buy your tickets and book your hotels. Most applications will be processed within minutes and at the latest within 96 hours)​

​

- 7 myths and facts about ETIAS​

BTW, you will know when the EES (Entry/Exist System) has become fully operational: You will then no longer get these little stamps in your passports. A few months later, ETIAS is supposed to be operational for travellers.

No stamps in our passports?! Where does it end?! Will the albergues follow the EES and no longer stamp our pilgrim passports? Will Santiago no longer require them? Oh, pray to Saint James, our pilgrimages will now be meaningless!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

At the moment people from the US don’t require pre-approval but the UK has announced a scheme similar to that of the EU to be rolled out on a similar timeline. I assume the process started pre-Brexit and the UK has simply developed its own version in the changed circumstances

Thank you. I will Google for more info.

Yes since we became independent we can now develop our own rules, systems and processes.

I know we are trying to move to a ‘one size fits all’ system, irrespective of nationality, as opposed to the two tier system we had when we were members of the EU.

Conscious of rules on politics here so will say no more..

 

[Kathar1na]

Apply for an electronic travel authorisation (ETA)

Information on who can get an ETA and how to apply before coming to the UK.

www.gov.uk

PS: etauk.uk is NOT an official UK government site!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

This is not "tit for tat," pers se. What it is, is an effort to know in advance who is planning to come. This is for EU member law enforcement and intelligence service reasons. It is wholly within the right of any country to do so.

Thank you Tom. Currently many countries allow visitors from other nations to just show up at their borders to gain access and so Mr. John Smith is allowed in. Maybe even the John Smith who has been deported from a dozen other countries for suspected illegal activities. ETIAS will allow entry discrimination based on individuals instead of the broader and easier discrimination by nationality.

 

[Kathar1na]

Oh yes, ETIAS is in the news again: CBS News, Washington Post, Fox, The Independent. "On the horizon ...", "Starting in 2024 ..."

It often surprises me how unaware so many of the news article producers are of publicly available information. For example this:

The introduction of EES has been much delayed. It was previously scheduled for implementation in 2022, and then May 2023, and then delayed again until the end of 2023. However, EES is not now expected until 2024, possibly to be introduced after the Paris Olympics in the summer. The EU is expected to set out a revised schedule for EES and related systems (including ETIAS) in October 2023.​

​

If the EES will go live after the summer of 2024 and ETIAS will go live several months after EES then we are more than a whole year away from ETIAS.

Given that Camino walkers from the USA travel mainly between May and September to Spain, they are two years away from when ETIAS will apply to them.

Source: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-eu-entry-exit-system-and-eu-travel-authorisation-system/, published Tuesday, 18 July, 2023.

 

[Dreamcatcher55]

The planned system is very similar to the ESTA visa waiver system that the USA already applies to many countries. A fairly low-cost and straightforward electronic advance authorisation for travel. However there is no firm date for the start of the ETIAS programme. It has already been delayed over a number of years and may not come into play until well into next year. For the past few years there have been a lot of misleading private websites claiming to process ETIAS applications or offering inaccurate information about ETIAS - mostly aimed at persuading people to pay a premium to have their application submitted through a third-party website. I suggest that those like myself who will be entering the Schengen travel zone from a country where ETIAS will apply follow the link to the official website which @trecile just posted above.

I read up on the ETIAS website and seems pretty straightforward. Though it begins 2024 there is a 180 day period of grace. It also says that once you fill out the application for the Authorization you will get it within 30 min. It is also good for 3 yrs, so if you are planning multiple trips to different countries make sure to list them so you are covered. We’ll see if this works as planned!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I read up on the ETIAS website and seems pretty straightforward. Though it begins 2024 there is a 180 day period of grace. It also says that once you fill out the application for the Authorization you will get it within 30 min. It is also good for 3 yrs, so if you are planning multiple trips to different countries make sure to list them so you are covered. We’ll see if this works as planned!

You have to list countries up to three years in advance, or you add as you go?

 

[Bradypus]

You have to list countries up to three years in advance, or you add as you go?

As I understand it the plan is that there will be a single authorisation valid for three years for all of the countries which are part of the system. You will not have to list individual countries - once accepted you will have access to any part of the travel zone.

EDIT: From the FAQ section of the official ETIAS website: "When you apply for an ETIAS travel authorisation, you are required to indicate the first country you intend to stay in. This information is used to process your application. However, once you have your travel authorisation in hand, you can change your plans and travel to any of these 30 European countries."

 

[TravellingMan22]

As I understand it the plan is that there will be a single authorisation valid for three years for all of the countries which are part of the system. You will not have to list individual countries - once accepted you will have access to any part of the travel zone.

Thank you. That was my assumption.

 

[Canche]

Oh yes, ETIAS is in the news again: CBS News, Washington Post, Fox, The Independent.

"On the horizon ...", "Starting in 2024 ..."

There has been no official announcement about a starting date. When ETIAS becomes finally operational, there will be a phasing-in period and a massive official information campaign. Until then it's actually no news.

And indeed, some news articles make it sound as if ETIAS will be put in place for US citizens only. In reality, it will apply to any non-EU national who wants to travel to an EU country and who benefits from the visa waiver program. In fact, to quote the official EU website, it will apply to 1.4 billion people from over 60 visa-exempt countries who will be required to have a travel authorisation to enter most European countries.

I don’t understand why the EU wants to curtail tourism and income. Makes no sense to me

 

[TravellingMan22]

I don’t understand why the EU wants to curtail tourism and income. Makes no sense to me

They are not, and they won’t! It will be be cheap and simple process very similar to USA, Canada and Australia from a consumer standpoint.

 

[Kathar1na]

I don’t understand why the EU wants to curtail tourism and income. Makes no sense to me

An expense of €7, to be paid by a traveller every three years if he/she travels frequently to the EU, or €7 for a single visit if it is a one-off trip will have no effect on tourism and tourism income.

As others have pointed out, the USA and other non-EU countries already have similar systems. Canada, Australia, New Zealand - they require an electronic travel authorisation for visa-exempt tourists against payment of a fee.

If I, as an EU citizen, were to travel to the USA for a short visit I would have to use their ESTA system and pay $21 (€19) for my electronic travel authorisation which would be valid for 2 years.

Compare this with the EU's electronic travel authorisation: only €7 and a validity of 3 years. A bargain.

ETIAS is part of the EU's Smart Border package, a comprehensive set of IT systems and databases to improve the management of the external borders of the Schengen Member States, fight against irregular immigration and provide information on overstayers, as well as facilitate border crossings for pre-vetted frequent third country national (TCN) travellers (<- that's you).

There is unanimity that there is scope for improvement of the management of the external EU borders.

 

[TravellingMan22]

An expense of €7, to be paid by a traveller every three years if he/she travels frequently to the EU, or €7 for a single visit if it is a one-off trip will have no effect on tourism and tourism income.

As others have pointed out, the USA and other non-EU countries already have similar systems. Canada, Australia, New Zealand - they require an electronic travel authorisation for visa-exempt tourists against payment of a fee.

If I, as an EU citizen, were to travel to the USA for a short visit I would have to use their ESTA system and pay $21 (€19) for my electronic travel authorisation which would be valid for 2 years.

Compare this with the EU's electronic travel authorisation: only €7 and a validity of 3 years. A bargain.

ETIAS is part of the EU's Smart Border package, a comprehensive set of IT systems and databases to improve the management of the external borders of the Schengen Member States, fight against irregular immigration and provide information on overstayers, as well as facilitate border crossings for pre-vetted frequent third country national (TCN) travellers (<- that's you).

There is unanimity that there is scope for improvement of the management of the external EU borders.

Yep. The smooth entry in to Australia, for those on a pre approved ‘visa’, speaks volumes for what can be achieved. Auto gates with auto processing… no need for stamps! Through in a few mins!

 

[Pathfinder075]

BTW, you will know when the EES (Entry/Exist System) has become fully operational: You will then no longer get these little stamps in your passports. A few months later, ETIAS is supposed to be operational for travellers.

Do you know if it's still possible to request passport stamps at checkpoints? For if you want to collect country stamps in your passport?

 

[Alister M]

Do you know if it's still possible to request passport stamps at checkpoints? For if you want to collect country stamps in your passport?

I think that would be possible in most places but you would need to go through the (probably longer) process of the ‘all other passports’ to be assessed by a border official rather than the quick and easy automatic passport reader entry

 

[TravellingMan22]

I think that would be possible in most places but you would need to go through the (probably longer) process of the ‘all other passports’ to be assessed by a border official rather than the quick and easy automatic passport reader entry

Not sure tbh, but totally get your logic. I prefer not to get stamps as it clams up the passport. A lot of folks like to get stamps so hopefully will be covered in the Q & A on the press release when it finally happens!

 

[Pathfinder075]

I think that would be possible in most places but you would need to go through the (probably longer) process of the ‘all other passports’ to be assessed by a border official rather than the quick and easy automatic passport reader entry

I already do, due to carrying a ton of medication with me. So not a problem for me.

Not sure tbh, but totally get your logic. I prefer not to get stamps as it clams up the passport. A lot of folks like to get stamps so hopefully will be covered in the Q & A on the press release when it finally happens!

The other things with stamps is thankfully Europe (AFAIK) doesn't have any Israel/(insert middle eastern country) or Eritrea/Ethiopia issues. My brother used to have two passports, one for going to one country and one for the other. Some places are just a pain.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I already do, due to carrying a ton of medication with me. So not a problem for me.



The other things with stamps is thankfully Europe (AFAIK) doesn't have any Israel/(insert middle eastern country) or Eritrea/Ethiopia issues. My brother used to have two passports, one for going to one country and one for the other. Some places are just a pain.

Indeed. Lucky to have 3 passports (2 current UK and 1 Irish) and managed to keep the Israeli stamps and Saudi/other ME countries apart without any real issue. Tho of course ETIAS is just a Europe gig so will still get stamps when you arrive outside the zone. Heard of folks getting stamps of a piece of paper secured inside passport but no idea is true.

According to UK press USA Cuba hotting up as well re ESTA approval!

 

[Pathfinder075]

Indeed. Lucky to have 3 passports (2 current UK and 1 Irish) and managed to keep the Israeli stamps and Saudi/other ME countries apart without any real issue. Tho of course ETIAS is just a Europe gig so will still get stamps. Heard of folks getting stamps of a piece of paper inside passport but no idea of true.

My brother worked in oil and he is the only person I know that got two of those extra page passports and had to get another two a year later. he obviously travelled into all four of those countries. nowadays I don't think they care so much if you go to Israel and have been in Saudi. But back then they were hardcore on the topic.

 

[TravellingMan22]

My brother worked in oil and he is the only person I know that got two of those extra page passports and had to get another two a year later. he obviously travelled into all four of those countries. nowadays I don't think they care so much if you go to Israel and have been in Saudi. But back then they were hardcore on the topic.

Yes I think the issue is much less nowadays too!

 

[Ricardo Moretti]

Just a note to my fellow residents of Los Estados Unidos.

If nothing changes before January, beginning at that point, the European Union will require US citizens to obtain a general "visa" to countries in the European Union prior to boarding the plane to Europe. It's supposed to be an easy online process, but the European Union does state that it can take up to 30 days to issue said visa. Airlines are already being instructed to deny boarding if the traveler can't provide the proof.

This is widely reported to be a tit for tat - currently, the US is reported to require visas from most if not all European Union travelers.

I am curious as to what impact this new visa requirement will have on tourism to the EU.

 

[VNwalking]

I am curious as to what impact this new visa requirement will have on tourism to the EU.

None whatsoever.

 

[trecile]

I am curious as to what impact this new visa requirement will have on tourism to the EU.

None whatsoever.

I agree

 

[TravellingMan22]

I agree

Me too! It will cost more to get a couple of coffees at an airport than a three year ‘visa’. Probably be quicker too!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I already do, due to carrying a ton of medication with me. So not a problem for me.



The other things with stamps is thankfully Europe (AFAIK) doesn't have any Israel/(insert middle eastern country) or Eritrea/Ethiopia issues. My brother used to have two passports, one for going to one country and one for the other. Some places are just a pain.

Apart from Cyprus.

 

[Kathar1na]

Do you know if it's still possible to request passport stamps at checkpoints? For if you want to collect country stamps in your passport?

You mean will EU border staff do souvenir stamps upon request like the bars on the Camino? Officer, can I have a sello please? I personally doubt it. You’ll have to wait and see until EES has been implemented. But why don’t you try next time you cross the UK border? I believe your passport does not get stamped but surely they must have stamps so why not ask and report back?

 

[TravellingMan22]

You mean will EU border staff do souvenir stamps upon request like the bars on the Camino? Officer, can I have a sello please? I personally doubt it. You’ll have to wait and see until EES has been implemented. But why don’t you try next time you cross the UK border? I believe your passport does not get stamped but surely they must have stamps so why not ask and report back?

Good idea. No stamps at LHR on arrival in UK currently for EU, US, Canadian, Australia folks and a few more (you go through the same egate process as UK folks) so if you go to the desk you can see what they say.

 

[dougfitz]

I already do, due to carrying a ton of medication with me. So not a problem for me.

I think you are confusing different elements of the border control framework here. The immigration checkpoints, now automated for those with an eligible e-passport, don't care about what goods, etc you are carrying. That will be customs or quarantine officials that do their work after you have collected your baggage. I also carry medications that need to be declared, but not to the immigration officer. I'm not inclined to think that I would want to join the 'other nations' queue just to get my passport stamped, much as I liked seeing the evidence of my travels.

 

[Kathar1na]

In case it isn’t clear: There will be no stamping of anyone’s passport after the introduction of the EES, whether they are EU nationals, or EU residents, or nationals of countries who benefit from the visa waiver program or nationals of countries who must have a visa.

The difference between us from the EU and the “Others”: the EES applies to all non-EU travellers, both with visa exemption and with visa obligation - their (your) data will be collected, checked, and stored, namely data read from your passport, your fingerprints and your facial image.

EES: everybody who has neither an EU passport nor an EU residency card
ETIAS: everybody who has neither an EU passport nor an EU residency card and does not need to get a visa for short stays

It is explained in the relevant FAQs on the official EU website https://travel-europe.europa.eu.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I think this will become one of those things that Brits forget to update every 3 years and find themselves denied boarding at the airport, rather than any sort of real hindrance to travel.

 

[t2andreo]

No stamps in our passports?! Where does it end?! Will the albergues follow the EES and no longer stamp our pilgrim passports? Will Santiago no longer require them? Oh, pray to Saint James, our pilgrimages will now be meaningless!!

NO ONE has officially said that the inception of ETIAS in the EU means that passports will no longer be stamped. If they follow the example set by the US's ETAS and other countries that have electronic pre-approval to travel systems, e.g. Australia, passport stamps will continue to be affixed.

We need to dial this hysteria back a little bit. The EU's ETIAS system only requires you to ask permission to come - to board a plane or ship/ferry - to the EU. It is NOT the actual permission to enter the country.

THAT permission to enter any country, can only be granted by the appropriate official at the arrival port-of-entry. That official considers the totality of your request to entry the EU before stamping the approval on your passport. This includes the results of the automated checks done through the ETIAS either before you got on the plane, etc., or while you were enroute. It can include any number of other things that the official can articulate to his / her superiors.

The net result of the new process should be faster clearance / admission times when entering the EU.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Kathar1na]

NO ONE has officially said that the inception of ETIAS in the EU means that passports will no longer be stamped.

Correct. It is not ETIAS that will do away with the EU's entry/exit stamps. It will be the EES that will do away with the EU's entry/exit stamps.

As anyone will know who has bothered to inform themselves on the EU's official webpage: Registration on the EES will be done every time travellers cross external borders and will replace the manual stamping of passports. If you doubt this information, you can look up the actual law on EurLex which says the same.

The EES is planned to become operational several months before ETIAS becomes operational.

The EU's ETIAS system only requires you to ask permission to come - to board a plane or ship/ferry - to the EU. It is NOT the actual permission to enter the country.

As many news articles emphasise, ETIAS is not a visa.

As anyone will know who has bothered to inform themselves on the EU's official webpage, it is for travellers who do not need a visa. It is for visa-exempt travellers: ETIAS travel authorisation is an entry requirement for visa-exempt nationals travelling to any of these European countries.

We need to dial this hysteria back a little bit.

I would not call it hysteria. I would call it over-eagerness to share on this forum what people have read in online news sources. People ought to simply refrain from posting - or commenting on such posts - about ETIAS until it has become a requirement.

 

[t2andreo]

And I quote - from this site: https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/faqs-ees_en

"How Does the Automation of Processes Facilitate Border Crossings by non-EU Nationals?

The EES and the rules of the Schengen Borders CodeEN••• give European countries using the EES the possibility to automate their processes. This will make data collection and verification easier.

Automation means that, if you are a non-EU national, you are able to use dedicated equipment – a “self-service system”, if available, to register when crossing the border. Through the self-service system, you can check if your data is still recorded in the EES and, if no data is present, you can upload your data for subsequent verification by a passport control officer.

After using the self-service system, you can then go to a border control lane where the passport control officer will have already received:

• information from the self-service system (including checks against other databases)
• confirmation of your identity
• the remaining duration of your stay

The passport control officer can then ask further questions before deciding to grant or refuse access to the respective territory. [Emphasis added by Tom]

N.B. THIS is where you would obtain your passport stamp - to signify that you have been admitted. Traditionally, that has ALWAYS been done with a rubber stamp in a travel document, e.g. passport.​

The automated preparation of the border check before you reach the passport control officer will gradually help to reduce queues, once a sufficient number of travellers use the self-service systems. The automation replaces time-consuming steps, allowing the passport control officers to concentrate on assessing the individual's situation. This helps to streamline border processes." [END QUOTE]

If someone else has a direct quote from an authoritative EU site stating that there will no longer be stamps placed in passports, please correct me. Thanks in advance for a charitable correction.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Kathar1na]

Gosh, @t2andreo, why don't we just wait until the EES is actually in place? We can continue this battle of quote and counter-quote for a while but does it serve any other purpose than the egos of both of us? The link that you mentioned is a FAQ with more than one point. Just before the one that you have apparently read you can read this:

Specifically, the EES:​

• reduces wait times in passport control queues by allowing for automated border controls (where available and under the supervision of passport control officers)
• replaces the need for passports to be stamped (unless exceptions apply)

Visa-exempt pilgrims won't be an exception. The border control officer will take your passport, hold it under the scanner, the scanner is linked to EES, the officer will see whether to say OK, buen Camino, you were apparently not an overstayer during your last visit and you have enough days left in your Schengen account to spend 32 days in Spain.

OK, I've been ad-libbing here, he or she will probably not say much if anything and just wave you off.

 

[Kathar1na]

More interesting to people is perhaps which kind of data are checked and which kind of information is stored about you, dear visa-exempt non-EU pilgrim, and where.

Currently, when your passport gets scanned, your personal data and your passport's data are checked against four EU-wide databases: SIS, Eurodac, VIS and Ecris. You and your passport are unlikely to be in any of them.

In future when all these wonderful new systems are finally in place, the check will be against six EU-wide databases: SIS, Eurodac, VIS, Ecris, EES and ETIAS. Your personal data will be in EES and ETIAS.

There's an infographic on the Council's website:
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-wide-it-systems-for-security-and-migration/

 

[Alister M]

For the Americans engaged in this thread, a comment on collection and retention of information. I was in the US 3 weeks ago and saw a clear sign that under US law information including biometric data on US citizens (I think it also applied to permanent residents) had to be deleted within, I think, 12 hours, but the US government could collect and retain such data on anyone else for as long as it chose. The new systems of the EU and UK are closely modelled on the US system and I am pretty sure a similar structure will apply to non-citizens of those jurisdictions. We may all want to be anonymous but that’s not how the world works. Be thankful that for each country you seek to enter you don’t have to send off your passport to apply for a full-page stamped visa as was often the case in the past. The inconvenience of this new system will be minimal.

 

[Kathar1na]

I was in the US 3 weeks ago and saw a clear sign that under US law information including biometric data on US citizens (I think it also applied to permanent residents) had to be deleted within, I think, 12 hours, but the US government could collect and retain such data on anyone else for as long as it chose

Your comment made me curious and I googled a bit.

A fun fact for us EU-ers: There is a website of the US government where you can check whether they keep entry records on you. I checked immediately.

Yep, the DHS still knows when I entered the USA most recently: in 2010. I am quite sure that I filled in and paid for an ESTA application then.

That was 13 years ago.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Your comment made me curious and I googled a bit.

A fun fact for us EU-ers: There is a website of the US government where you can check whether they keep entry records on you. I checked immediately.

Yep, the DHS still knows when I entered the USA most recently: in 2010. I am quite sure that I filled in and paid for an ESTA application then.

That was 13 years ago.

Interesting!! Do you have a link!!!

 

[henrythedog]

Whatever it is and whenever it is we will have no choice but to comply, so does it really matter what the purported benefits are?

 

[Kathar1na]

a link

It‘s https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/home and then you have to click on Travel History.

 

[TravellingMan22]

It‘s https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/home and then you have to click on Travel History.

Thank you!

 

[TravellingMan22]

It‘s https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/home and then you have to click on Travel History.

Very impressive and interesting!!

 

[OzAnnie]

NO ONE has officially said that the inception of ETIAS in the EU means that passports will no longer be stamped. If they follow the example set by the US's ETAS and other countries that have electronic pre-approval to travel systems, e.g. Australia, passport stamps will continue to be affixed.

We need to dial this hysteria back a little bit. The EU's ETIAS system only requires you to ask permission to come - to board a plane or ship/ferry - to the EU. It is NOT the actual permission to enter the country.

THAT permission to enter any country, can only be granted by the appropriate official at the arrival port-of-entry. That official considers the totality of your request to entry the EU before stamping the approval on your passport. This includes the results of the automated checks done through the ETIAS either before you got on the plane, etc., or while you were enroute. It can include any number of other things that the official can articulate to his / her superiors.

The net result of the new process should be faster clearance / admission times when entering the EU.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Hi Tom
Mostly agree / nothing signed off on it yet ? as far as I know.

But disagree with

If they follow the example set by the US's ETAS and other countries that have electronic pre-approval to travel systems, e.g. Australia, passport stamps will continue to be affixed.

I have been flying from Oz to USA for about 8 yrs to visit family at least once a year (except 2020) & have the ESTA required to enter USA

BUT (FIO) ( at least in last 5 yrs) definitely ‘no stamping of my passport ‘ entering or departing USA. Btw that caused me a particularly difficult problem also about 4-5 yrs ago too - (it was a proof I needed to show /long story ) but no stamps given.

Annie

 

[dougfitz]

If they follow the example set by the US's ETAS and other countries that have electronic pre-approval to travel systems, e.g. Australia, passport stamps will continue to be affixed.

I haven't had my passport stamped in any country I have visited outside of entry into and exit from the Schengen zone for some years. My wife and I have travelled annually for over 20 years, and the introduction of smart gates in their various guises has completely eliminated passport stamps where they are deployed. This appears to be a separate matter to pre-approval processing. I know that the Australian government tried to introduce a streamlined process for customs and quarantine clearances based on a smartphone app just after lifting COVID travel restrictions. It was a dud, and withdrawn from use. Smart gates weren't affected by this, but the paper forms based customs and quarantine checks are still in use.

 

[Kathar1na]

The idea that passports of non-nationals get stamped at the border and that this is universal is not born out in reality. It is not even reciprocal.

Simple up-to-date example: UK nationals travelling to France or Spain or any other Schengen country get an entry stamp in their passports. EU nationals who travel from France or Spain or any other Schengen country to the UK don't get any stamp in their passports.

You can take my word for it . While my English relatives and friends can now proudly show their little EU entry/exit stamps when they come for a visit I have nothing to show in return when I visit them in the UK. Oh how I envy them . I, too, treasure the stamps and visa stickers in my old passports that tell of my past travels.

 

[TravellingMan22]

The idea that passports of non-nationals get stamped at the border and that this is universal is not born out in reality. It is not even reciprocal.

Simple up-to-date example: UK nationals travelling to France or Spain or any other Schengen country get an entry stamp in their passports. EU nationals who travel from France or Spain or any other Schengen country to the UK don't get any stamp in their passports.

You can take my word for it . While my English relatives and friends can now proudly show their little EU entry/exit stamps when they come for a visit I have nothing to show in return when I visit them in the UK. Oh how I envy them . I, too, treasure the stamps and visa stickers in my old passports that tell of my past travels.

Yep!! UK folks still getting used to it!!! As you say many nationalities can use egates at LHR for example, including EU.

My partner and I flew to Germany a couple of weeks back. She is a UK passport holder and joined the ‘non-UK’ queue and waited in line and got her passport stamped. I have UK and Irish passports but use Irish in EU so was straight through the egates and then waited for her!! They actually asked her if she had a return ticket but that was because the agent was being trained. Pretty straight forward.

Where UK people are getting confused, and me to to an extent, is that they (UK in this case) only get their passport stamped at first point of entry into EU. So friends flew London-Italy-Malta a few weeks go. Their passports were stamped on entry into Italy but their was not even a passport check on arrival into Malta!

It will all smooth out of course! Lots of good advancements in this area!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Any idea how this works for those of us who hold non-EU passports, but are resident in the EU? Will we have to register? If not how will the automated system know we are resident? Will it read resident's permits as well?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Any idea how this works for those of us who hold non-EU passports, but are resident in the EU? Will we have to register?

We are exempted from ETIAS.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

We are exempted from ETIAS.

I understand that. But if there is an automated system that recognises ETIAS and we are exempt, will we be unable to use the automated system or will there be some mechanism for recognising our exemption?

 

[t2andreo]

Whatever! It is whatever it will be. Que sera, sera.

If they want to stamp my passport on entry to, or exit from, any country, they are welcome to. If they don't that's fine too.

In the meantime, I plan to comply in advance with any and all procedural or technology requirements placed in my path. It is what the polite legal global traveler does.

It's all good.

Tom

 

[Kathar1na]

I understand that. But if there is an automated system that recognises ETIAS and we are exempt, will we be unable to use the automated system or will there be some mechanism for recognising our exemption?

We should really wait until these systems are functional and become obligatory. The EES self-serving systems are not e-gates where you have your passport scanned and then walk through. They are kiosks where your fingerprints are taken and your face is scanned. EU nationals will not have to do this and EU residents will not have to do it either. We all just drive or walk through the channels that apply to our personal situation and do what is required from us on the basis of our personal situation.

I have only the vaguest memories of my trip to the USA in 2010. Did they not take a photo of us and did they not take at least one if not two fingerprints at the time?

 

[t2andreo]

I came across this information - of interest to everyone traveling INTO the EU or Schengen States - in my morning reading.

EES Launch Date Remains Unknown, Member States Claim National Implementation Is "in Line" With Other EU Countries - SchengenVisaInfo.com

The European Union has been trying hard in recent years to strengthen its external borders and thus become a safer and more secure area for both its citizens and visitors. A series of programs and schemes that aim to control who enters and leaves the 27 Member States and Schengen-associated...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Hope this helps answer some quesitons.

Tom

 

[Kathar1na]

Any idea how this works for those of us who hold non-EU passports, but are resident in the EU? Will we have to register? If not how will the automated system know we are resident? Will it read resident's permits as well?

Here is a pretty good article: https://www.connexionfrance.com/art...y-Exit-System-9-key-things-to-know-in-advance

Connexionfrance is an English language online news media. They cater mainly for British nationals who frequently visit France or have second homes in France. They are well informed about such EU topics as a rule and provide useful practical information.

As you can see, one big concern are longer waiting lines and longer waiting times once the EES system has started because all these facial recognition data and fingerprint data of non-EU travellers have to be entered into the EES system for a first time at the border. It might become a major problem in some circumstances, for example at peak holiday times in Dover but also at Paris airports during the Olympic Games.

And of course EU nationals and EU residents can get entangled in these lines. Tell me about ... I fume each time a bit when I arrive in Dieppe where there are no separate lines and all the cars are made to move forward at snail's pace in the same lines and go through the same border control booths, no matter what the nationality of driver and passengers is ... and it could get worse in 2024 and 2025. I will have to bring more reading material ...

 

[Molly Cassidy]

It couldn't be worse than my experience entering Hungary from Serbia a couple of years ago! I try to avoid leaving the Schengen zone as much as possible these days.

Of course I have already provided my fingerprint data in order to get my residence permits in Latvia, Greece and Spain-

 

[t2andreo]

Further to last - and to most of the posts above. This morning, I came across what I consider to be the best, clearest, and easiest to understand explanation of the changes to EU / Schengen admission rules starting next year. Here is the link:

No, US citizens will not need a visa to travel to most of Europe in 2024

Beginning in 2024, U.S. citizens will have to fill out an online travel authorization called ETIAS to enter most of Europe. But this is far simpler than a visa.

www.verifythis.com

I hope this helps, and puts this issue to bed.

Tom

 

[TravellingMan22]

It couldn't be worse than my experience entering Hungary from Serbia a couple of years ago! I try to avoid leaving the Schengen zone as much as possible these days.

Of course I have already provided my fingerprint data in order to get my residence permits in Latvia, Greece and Spain-

Was that on the train?

 

[t2andreo]

I found something else that is pertinent and directly so to Spain. Here it is:

Spain Plans to Be Ready for Entry/Exit System Implementation by Late 2023 or Early 2024 - SchengenVisaInfo.com

Spain claims that its external border checkpoints will be ready and prepared with all the required equipment for the implementation of the new Entry/Exit System (EES) by the end of 2023 or early 2024. “Spain’s plan is for the system to be completed and all equipment deployed between the end of...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[TravellingMan22]

Your comment made me curious and I googled a bit.

A fun fact for us EU-ers: There is a website of the US government where you can check whether they keep entry records on you. I checked immediately.

Yep, the DHS still knows when I entered the USA most recently: in 2010. I am quite sure that I filled in and paid for an ESTA application then.

That was 13 years ago.

When I looked at this website I got quite concerned as it showed me entering the USA last March (true), but never leaving (not true)!!! Thankfully there is a caveat that says that ‘land’ entrys and exits aren’t always recorded. I entered (recorded) and left (not recorded)! by bus last year heading south! I entered USA last night and was braced for questions but thankfully none . And not even fingerprints taken.. assume last years hold for a few years!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Was that on the train?

No in a car.

 

[Kathar1na]

The EU is expected to set out a revised schedule for EES and related systems (including ETIAS) in October 2023.

That’s what was posted in July 2023 in this thread, and now that October has come and the scheduled Council meeting of the ministers for Justice and Home Affairs of the 27 EU countries has been held that is what they announced:

​

EES: The new system will be built by eu-LISA, together with member states. The delivery of the new IT architecture foresees that the Entry/Exit system will be ready to enter into operation in Autumn 2024.​

​

ETIAS: ETIAS will be developed by eu-LISA and ready to enter into operation in Spring 2025. This is the EU agency that manages the large-scale IT systems in the area of freedom, security and justice. ​

​

Source: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/it-systems-security-justice/

 

[BombayBill]

It appears this is now delayed to 2025.

This article is for Canadians but I imagine will apply to some others.

ETIAS for Canadian citizens | ETIAS authorisation for travel to Europe

Everything you need to know about ETIAS for Canadian citizens including when the European visa waiver will be introduced and why you need to apply

www.etias.ca

Moderator note:

We will lock this now obsolete thread.

More up to date info is on this thread.