Search 59,165 Camino Questions

A donation to the forum removes ads for you, and supports Ivar in his work running it


Advertisement
Camino Socks
Browse the Camino Socks collection on the forum shop
2022 Camino Guides
The 2022 Camino guides will be coming out little by little, most of them by the end of 2021. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.

Molested on the camino?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
Camino Cups
Browse our selection of Camino Cups on the forum store
Fine art photography from the Camino Ways.

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
Someone on the American pilgrim site posted this. I read that the police has been talking to various women who said they had been molested. Has any of you had this kind of experience? http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/provincia/mes-muchos-interrogantes_976412.html
We have a "Camino Crime" section in the forum here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/forums/camino-crime-watch.26/
...if you read this section you will see crime related questions during the last 10 years.

Since this is a general question, not necessarily related to Deniese, I will split this off into a new topic.

Thanks;
Ivar
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
Fair point Ivar, but I was just thinking of a recent phenomenum in conjunction with Denise disappearance. All I am questioning if there is something going on in that particular area. As for me I walked the Primitivo and I felt mostly safe, pnly once some drunken idiots they started being a bit obnoxious ( I was friendly to them to begin with and when I turned down an invitation to the restaurant they didnt like it. They came back drunk and aggressive. But on the camino I felt safe)
 
Past OR future Camino
2012
You can add irritate, hassle and tease to that list. Unfortunately, in the great tradition of the free press world wide, in the absence of news journalists speculate, sub-editors write headlines and editors negate their responsibilities. There has been much press coverage of an un-quoted source providing un-quoted and unsubstantiated accounts of suggestions that... It is a shame that this "stuff" is allowed to intrude on our daily lives so much. The Camino is probably the safest city on the planet, just take normal precautions.
 
2022 Camino Guides
The 2022 Camino guides will be coming out little by little, most of them by the end of 2021. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
A thought-provoking Camino memoir. This day-by-day account will inspire you.

jirit

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
Statistically it is safer that most other activities other than maybe sitting and reading a book.

Given that a small city sized number of people walk or bike the Spanish camino routes each year, the number of people that get injured or worse die is far less than you would expect in most modern urban city environments.

You are probably at greater risk of getting injured or worse by simply walking the streets of your own home town.
 

Cailin O Eire

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Walked Sarria to Santiago Easter 2014
Hope to walk for 5 days from St Jean Pied De Port to wherever my feet bring me to first week of June 2016
Remember "molestar" in Spanish does not mean the same as the English word. English speakers will automatically assume the worst but it has much milder meanings in Spanish. Ie pestered, bothered, humbugged...
I'm very glad you cleared that up, I speak no Spanish and took the literal meaning of the word molested when I read the translated newspaper articles, and in the process I frightened the life out of myself. Thank you!
 

cher99840

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2013, 2017 Camino Frances SJPP-Santiago
2015 St. Olav's Way Oslo-Trondheim
2017 VdlP Seville-Merida
It's not only in Spanish that the term "molest" has multiple meanings. Imagine my surprise when as a police dispatcher I was asked to record that a citation had been issued for molesting fish.

Following is a list of definitions found in Chapter 39 and Chapter 75 of the Alaska Administrative Code or in Title 16 of Alaska Statutes.
  • molesting means the harassing, disturbing, or interfering with fish by any means, including the use of any missile or object not established as legal gear; molesting includes dragging, kicking, throwing, striking, or otherwise abusing a fish which is intended to be released.
In the case I am referring to, spawning salmon were being "caught" with bare hands. In the state of Alaska, that's molesting!!
 
2022 Camino Guides
The 2022 Camino guides will be coming out little by little, most of them by the end of 2021. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
John Brierley 2022 Camino Guide
The most selling Camino Guide is shipping November 1st. Get your today and start planning.

Peregrinopaul

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
VdlP(2012) Madrid(2014)Frances(2015) VdlP(2016)
VdlP(2017)Madrid/Sanabres/Frances reverse(2018)
Lo siento. Shouldn't have included that in such a serious thread.
 

cher99840

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2013, 2017 Camino Frances SJPP-Santiago
2015 St. Olav's Way Oslo-Trondheim
2017 VdlP Seville-Merida
Lo siento. Shouldn't have included that in such a serious thread.
It is a serious thread but it is also a thread where we can reflect upon the fact that we aren't always hearing/seeing what we think we are, and that language and cultural differences can result in misunderstandings.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
It is a serious thread but it is also a thread where we can reflect upon the fact that we aren't always hearing/seeing what we think we are, and that language and cultural differences can result in misunderstandings.
Shall I metion the translation for "Coger" - "To take", as in to "take a right or left" with the google translation on the tourist information kiosk by the Irache monastery that translates "coger" in a most vulgar way? By a monastery no less! In all seriousness, enough with so called journalists who cannot be bothered to check what they are saying.
 

Donna Sch

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
VdLP-Sanabres-Fisterra (Summer 2015); Levante-Invierno (Feb/Mar 2019);
England Camino routes ?2024
Coger "to grab" is my new word of the day! That could make for some really interesting sentences.
Any other words that have normal meanings in one Spanish country but which could raise eyebrows elsewhere?
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
Coger "to grab" is my new word of the day! That could make for some really interesting sentences.
Any other words that have normal meanings in one Spanish country but which could raise eyebrows elsewhere?
Not from me!
 
Fine art photography from the Camino Ways.
Original artwork based on your pilgrimage or other travel photos.

Icacos

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (2013)
May I please make a gentle request? I mean no offence, but I feel that we may be poised here to veer off into lightheartedness. Normally, that would be fine, but this thread started off seriously, in connection with Denise's disappearance, and I wouldn't feel comfortable if it were to turn jocular. The direction the conversation is taking could still make for a very interesting discussion but perhaps, out of respect for Denise and her family, we could continue this discussion on another thread. I remain still quite upset about this situation and continue to pray for a happy outcome. Again, this is a very gentle request. Thank you.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
May I please make a gentle request? I mean no offence, but I feel that we may be poised here to veer off into lightheartedness. Normally, that would be fine, but this thread started off seriously, in connection with Denise's disappearance, and I wouldn't feel comfortable if it were to turn jocular. The direction the conversation is taking could still make for a very interesting discussion but perhaps, out of respect for Denise and her family, we could continue this discussion on another thread. I remain still quite upset about this situation and continue to pray for a happy outcome. Again, this is a very gentle request. Thank you.
Thank you. I think your request was just perfect. This has been such a hard time, and it is important to remain sensitive to the situation.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
May I please make a gentle request? I mean no offence, but I feel that we may be poised here to veer off into lightheartedness. Normally, that would be fine, but this thread started off seriously, in connection with Denise's disappearance, and I wouldn't feel comfortable if it were to turn jocular. The direction the conversation is taking could still make for a very interesting discussion but perhaps, out of respect for Denise and her family, we could continue this discussion on another thread. I remain still quite upset about this situation and continue to pray for a happy outcome. Again, this is a very gentle request. Thank you.
But this thread is not about Denise. That thread was, if I recall properly, somewhere along the lines of "Help, I think my sister is missing', and the poor OP was quickly equated by veterans on this forum as being perhaps not very straight forward, not to be trusted, told that no info would be given to him, but if she was seen she might be told about him searching for her.

I for one never tried to play investigators trying to imply how the authorities should be doing their job.

This being said, thread is about poor translation and how easy it is for people to assume how words translate.
 

Peregrinopaul

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
VdlP(2012) Madrid(2014)Frances(2015) VdlP(2016)
VdlP(2017)Madrid/Sanabres/Frances reverse(2018)
The direction the conversation is taking could still make for a very interesting discussion but perhaps, out of respect for Denise and her family, we could continue this discussion on another thread. I remain still quite upset about this situation and continue to pray for a happy outcome. Again, this is a very gentle request. Thank you.
Mea culpa. Perhaps Ivar can work his magic.
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
I agree that molestar means different things BUT the article states that the police were talking to FEMALE pilgrims who said they had been molested. The fact that it was specifically referring to FEMALE pilgrims and not just pilgrims makes me assume that they are also following a lead of that kind. In fact, molestar has also a sexual connotation. In that context, who wrote the article is openly implying something of that nature. Thats all
 
Original artwork based on your pilgrimage or other travel photos.
Create your own ad
€1,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
If you check the OP, and then the third post down, you will see that it is initially about a post on APOC, and then the OP refers explicitly to a post about Denise. So without making a fuss, or getting too snooty about it all, it is about her.

It is in direct reference to an APOC post about her. Just saying.
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
If you check the OP, and then the third post down, you will see that it is initially about a post on APOC, and then the OP refers explicitly to a post about Denise. So without making a fuss, or getting too snooty about it all, it is about her.

It is in direct reference to an APOC post about her. Just saying.
Can you please shed some light on acronyms such as APOC and OP? Thank you :)
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
This is a forum. We have conversations here. Conversations evolve. That is why laughter is still not forbidden in hospitals. Life hands us terrible things, and joyful things, serious things too. Forums reflect that. No thread should require particular behaviors or "tones of voice."
These are subtlties best left to the bosses to judge.
If someone is saying something inappropriate, simply alert the admins and let them do their jobs.
 
Camino Magnets
A collection of Camino Fridge Magnets
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.
W

whariwharangi

Guest
Coger "to grab" is my new word of the day! That could make for some really interesting sentences.
Any other words that have normal meanings in one Spanish country but which could raise eyebrows elsewhere?

Yeah ... its okay to use 'Coger' to catch the train in Spain ... but try it in the Americas and you will get sniggers.
 

kellyz

Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances Astorga to Santiago, 2010
Camino Frances SJPP to Muxia, 2011
Camino del Salvador, 2012
Camino Primitivo 2012
Camino Portuguese, Coastal, 2013
I understand the desire for levity, as well as the need to head off any potential hysteria about crimes against women on the Camino. At the same time, if I had been molested/harassed/bothered on the Camino by a man because I am a woman I wouldn't feel welcome to post about it in this thread and maybe not in this forum.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.
2022 Camino Guides
The 2022 Camino guides will be coming out little by little, most of them by the end of 2021. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.

kellyz

Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances Astorga to Santiago, 2010
Camino Frances SJPP to Muxia, 2011
Camino del Salvador, 2012
Camino Primitivo 2012
Camino Portuguese, Coastal, 2013
Why not??? SY
Well, in this thread in particular because the subject was quickly diverted. Overall, I think the tendency lately has been to offer encouragement to women who are frightened and to curb hysteria--which, like I said, I think is good, but also might have the unintended affect of not welcoming stories we don't want to hear.
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
Raising awareness is not meant to encourage women hysteria, if anything it is meant to help to deal with potential dangerous situations in this particular route
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
I have seen a marked tendency to dismiss concerns
I saw it more as some were trying to get others to share their fear. There is a lot of hand-holding in the Forum to help nervous pilgrims. That hand-holding becomes twisted when there is a persistent demand to share the fear. I think veterans mostly urge perspective; keep the dangers in proportion. Those who have been victims may want the rest of us to show empathy by feeling the victimhood. I think we can assure everyone that we understand victims when we read the facts of the event. Scaring the horses may not be useful. :)
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
Are women now called horses? :p
 
A thought-provoking Camino memoir. This day-by-day account will inspire you.
Camino Cups
Browse our selection of Camino Cups on the forum store

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
Neighhhh!
This old gray mare just aint' what she used to be.... lol
 
M

Mark Lee

Guest
In order to get a true idea of reported crimes along the Camino Frances (SJPdP to SDC) and I use this route as an example because of its popularity, one would have to go to each individual law enforcement agency along the route and specifically pick out the incidents that occurred where a pilgrim was the victim, and then from there break it down into categories, such as assault, theft, etc. It's possible the Spanish government does that already and compiles an annual report on the matter.
For the reporter to just say the police were talking to various women who were molested without going into detail as to the specifics of the incidents is irresponsible. The old "who, what, when, where and how" is left out and the reader may be left with an impression that walking the CF is a dangerous thing.
The reporter may very well be poorly versed in police matters and not even familiar with the criminal or penal code of Spain and the different states there. I'm sure the reporter didn't even look at a single incident report prior to making that statement in his/her story.
You really have to take what you read in a media story with a grain of salt.
 

Elena1111

Member
Past OR future Camino
I did the Primitivo last year. That was the first camino. Now I am planning to do the camino again, again the Primitivo but this time solo. My very first time to do the camino solo
Mark from what the reporter wrote I understand that they have come across some "weird accidents", recently and on that particular stretch.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999, now living in Santiago de C
Past OR future Camino
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
Learn how to Get "Camino Ready " 2nd Edition. In English, Spanish, German and Korean
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
I live in Spain. My view is that I am safer on the open road here (especially the camino) than in my own kitchen . I try not to let my irritation show but I do get "molested" (as in irritated/irked) about the perception of crime in Spain on this forum and especially the camino and even more so the implied hicksville abilities of the police forces here.

Spain is NOT perfect (60% youth unemployment in my town) but violence by person or persons unknown is minimal here compared to most countries in the world. Punto, pelota.
 
Last edited:

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
I saw it more as some were trying to get others to share their fear. There is a lot of hand-holding in the Forum to help nervous pilgrims. That hand-holding becomes twisted when there is a persistent demand to share the fear. I think veterans mostly urge perspective; keep the dangers in proportion. Those who have been victims may want the rest of us to show empathy by feeling the victimhood. I think we can assure everyone that we understand victims when we read the facts of the event. Scaring the horses may not be useful. :)
Ben detto.
thank you !
 

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
...and in the last few weeks I lost two fillings when a drunk Irish guy threw a fist and my mouth happened to be in the way (in Amsterdam, Netherlands) and I got run over by a teenage girl in Antwerp, Belgium who was trying to SMS (never mind use her mobile) whilst cycling!!! No real harm done, a shirt got covered in blood and a jacket got scuffed. She scraped her beloved iPhone and learned some words she never heard in the bible. No big deal ..... life will go on for the three of us. I will not avoid Amsterdam, Antwerp, Irish yobs or cyclists.

BUT

50 million refugees are homeless, thousands have died in Nepal this week and we all know somebody with cancer

Can we please get things in perspective? #lifeHappens .......and the bad stuff is 99.9% off the camino
 

SabineP

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
Thank you ThisIsSpain!!!!!! Perspective indeed.. And thank you on behalve of the Antwerp girl...We Belgians can't learn enough cursing...;)
And yep I had more weird accidents in my own kitchen than on any spanish road.
I found an interesting link comparing spanish versus american crime rates but think it is better not posting this because I really don't think it would make any difference if people are so convinced of believing and nurturing their fear....( hope this makes sense? )
 
Camino Jewellery
A selection of Camino Jewellery
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
Groeten uit Antwerpen ..... beautiful city with or without suicidal cyclists! If you know Fr.Roosevelt Plaats you would know that extreme care should be taken by everybody at all times with trams, buses, lorries, delivery vans and 1000s of cyclists! Not a great place to send sms messages.

Tragically in Valencia a child died last week run over by a tram as she was oblivious on her phone. Guess I was lucky! They even have posters on the lamp-posts, "Wait to send your next haha until you have crossed the road"
 

SabineP

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
Poor kid! Yes, I know the plaats/ plaza....Ha you can imagine that we slow people from Limburg have to take extra precautions when crossing that area...
 

Suzanne Edminster

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Paloma-Santiago June-July 2014
This may be sexist or age-ist, but I only heard "creep" stories from the younger female pilgrims. Attractive young women attract attention anywhere. Humans are on the camino, but it feels to me far safer than any other kind of travel. A couple of times drunks were annoying, but that was it.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
This may be sexist or age-ist, but I only heard "creep" stories from the younger female pilgrims. Attractive young women attract attention anywhere. Humans are on the camino, but it feels to me far safer than any other kind of travel. A couple of times drunks were annoying, but that was it.
I can't wait to go. I know how off-topic my comment is, but seriously, I wish I were leaving tomorrow.

As an older woman, I still get a lot of attention, but I know how to deal with it, ha ha! We just figure it out over time.

Always good to have been around the international block a few times. It gives one the street smarts that are needed, well, everywhere in the world.
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Madrid/San Salvador/Primitivo-2021
In order to get a true idea of reported crimes along the Camino Frances (SJPdP to SDC) and I use this route as an example because of its popularity, one would have to go to each individual law enforcement agency along the route and specifically pick out the incidents that occurred where a pilgrim was the victim, and then from there break it down into categories, such as assault, theft, etc. It's possible the Spanish government does that already and compiles an annual report on the matter.
For the reporter to just say the police were talking to various women who were molested without going into detail as to the specifics of the incidents is irresponsible. The old "who, what, when, where and how" is left out and the reader may be left with an impression that walking the CF is a dangerous thing.
The reporter may very well be poorly versed in police matters and not even familiar with the criminal or penal code of Spain and the different states there. I'm sure the reporter didn't even look at a single incident report prior to making that statement in his/her story.
You really have to take what you read in a media story with a grain of salt.

Mark:

This whole conversation is based on an awful lot of assumption. Considering we do not have the facts, access to research or personally know the individuals who wrote the articles, I plan to refer back to what I know.

In 5 Camino's, I have witnessed an occasional minor theft and one situation where a Pilgrim attempted to molest a young woman. This was quickly dealt with by other men in the Albergue.

I believe the Camino is one of the safest places on earth. Given Pilgrims come from all over the planet, there are lots of opportunities for misunderstanding. That said, Pilgrims, imo, present themselves in a better fashion than most groups of society I have encountered.

In regards to the Spanish people I have encountered along the way, they have always been supportive, patient and generous.

I have had no interaction with Spanish authorities but suspect they are as professional as their peers worldwide.

Sorry for the preaching.

Ultreya,
Joe
 
Last edited:
Camino Socks
Browse the Camino Socks collection on the forum shop
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.

paul.ferris

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2011 Camino Frances
2013 Camino Frances
2015 To be decided
Mark:

This whole conversation is based on an awful lot of assumption. Considering we do not have the facts, access to research or personally know the individuals who wrote the articles, I plan to refer back to what I know.

In 5 Camino's, I have witnessed an occasional minor theft and one situation where a Pilgrim attempted to molest a young woman. This was quickly dealt with by other men in the Albergue.

I believe the Camino is one of the safest places on the planet. Given Pilgrims come from all over the planet, there are lots of opportunity for misunderstanding. That said, Pilgrims, imo, present themselves in a better fashion than most groups of society I have encountered.

In regards to the Spanish people I have encountered along the way, they have always been supportive and helpful.

I have no interaction with Spanish authorities but suspect they are as professional as their peers worldwide.

Sorry for the preaching.

Ultreya,
Joe
One of the saner summaries on this topic.
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
This may be sexist or age-ist, but I only heard "creep" stories from the younger female pilgrims. Attractive young women attract attention anywhere. Humans are on the camino, but it feels to me far safer than any other kind of travel. A couple of times drunks were annoying, but that was it.
i could supply you w/ one (creep story en camino) - and i am not in the 'younger female pilgrim' anymore (unless you'd be 110 yrs old or so, then i might still qualify for 'younger female pilgrim') ;)
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
i could supply you w/ one (creep story en camino) - and i am not in the 'younger female pilgrim' anymore (unless you'd be 110 yrs old or so, then i might still qualify for 'younger female pilgrim') ;)

Jeez, woman, we just got the herd settled! ;)

Okay, let's hear it....!!
 

amorfati1

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2014_Caminho Portuguese (Lisboa to Santiago_4 weeks in May)
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ung-women-travelling-alone.30818/#post-265824
i shared my observation w/ the local coppers then and there - and another forum member. and mentioned it on that thread above.
and i would undertake this pilgrimage again, without a doubt or concern - alone or with a companion.
when you keep your common sense bright and alert - you'll be fine walking the camino even alone.
buen camino - bom caminho - bon chemin -

(creeps are equal opportunity offenders. age/beauty or lack of .... does not enter the consideration for the creeps / perps. their agenda is different/more distorted. they can be found anywhere, anytime.
did that stop me from traveling? certainly not. or view i.e. experience life through a fear-anxiety-based lens? no - i rather affirm the goodness within people, while knowing that life is always on death's edge. )
(and for anyone who still believes that young age/attractiveness for e.g. figures greatly in factors of sexual violence might be gruesomely enlightened by a few conversations with rape-victims in their 80's or 90's thereabouts. - which does not mean that i am saying that the 80's aren't attractive. (am saying this just in case of the "political-correctness-border-patrol" is not asleep and ready to bite me head off)
 

kellyz

Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances Astorga to Santiago, 2010
Camino Frances SJPP to Muxia, 2011
Camino del Salvador, 2012
Camino Primitivo 2012
Camino Portuguese, Coastal, 2013
In my observations, this forum is a place of stories and opinions, not of facts. I welcome all stories and opinions and am intelligent enough to sort through them on my own.
 
Donation to the Forum
A donation to this forum helps it continue to exists and also removes all ads for you.
Camino Cups
Browse our selection of Camino Cups on the forum store

domigee

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
I live in Spain. My view is that I am safer on the open road here (especially the camino) than in my own kitchen . I try not to let my irritation show but I do get "molested" (as in irritated/irked) about the perception of crime in Spain on this forum and especially the camino and even more so the implied hicksville abilities of the police forces here.

Spain is NOT perfect (60% youth unemployment in my town) but violence by person or persons unknown is minimal here compared to most countries in the world. Punto, pelota.

Well spoken ThisisSpain! I share your irritation even though you don't show it .:)
 

LauraK

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Leon-Santiago (2004) Roncesvalles-Leon (2006) Camino Frances (2012) Kumano Kodo-Japan (2014) Camino Sanabres/Salamanca-Santiago (March 2015) Camino Del Salvador and Camino Primativo (Oct 2015)
This may be sexist or age-ist, but I only heard "creep" stories from the younger female pilgrims. Attractive young women attract attention anywhere. Humans are on the camino, but it feels to me far safer than any other kind of travel. A couple of times drunks were annoying, but that was it.
I thought the same thing, however I just returned from the Via De la Plata/Camino Sanabres and just after Orense I encountered a shepherd in an isolated place in the trees. We spoke briefly, he asked me where I was from, how old I was and where my husband was (I did say I was solo), and then he grabbed me and kissed me. I turned and walked away and he called after me and pointed to himself, then me and then the bushes! I said "no" and walked away as quick as possible. I am 61 years old...so that changed my ageist thinking! I was a little creeped out but decided maybe I was a little too friendly and he saw an opportunity. It was my 4th solo Camino and I still feel it is much safer than most other places I have traveled.
 

rubyslippers

Ruby Slippers
Past OR future Camino
April-May (2008) September (2012)
Shepards in Bushes or gun packing Vigilantes in Texas. . . where do I feel the safest? Where ever I am. I travel with myself, well prepared and situationally aware, but never frightened. I choose not to live frightened of the danger that is in our world. I flew for the airlines and after 9-11 you had to make up your mind to continue with life, unafraid. I read everything and love all the posts here and appreciate everyone's comments and perspective. We are all better together in a forum, having these conversations than alone with our fears. Humor counts. Sometimes you just have to be able to find the humor. There is real danger in our world, but life is amazing and the Camino is a Peak Life Experience for Pilgrims. Worth every step. I still pray for Denise every day.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
Shepards in Bushes or gun packing Vigilantes in Texas. . . where do I feel the safest? Where ever I am. I travel with myself, well prepared and situationally aware, but never frightened. I choose not to live frightened of the danger that is in our world. I flew for the airlines and after 9-11 you had to make up your mind to continue with life, unafraid. I read everything and love all the posts here and appreciate everyone's comments and perspective. We are all better together in a forum, having these conversations than alone with our fears. Humor counts. Sometimes you just have to be able to find the humor. There is real danger in our world, but life is amazing and the Camino is a Peak Life Experience for Pilgrims. Worth every step. I still pray for Denise every day.

You nailed it. Well said.
 
Create your own ad
€1,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
2022 Camino Guides
The 2022 Camino guides will be coming out little by little, most of them by the end of 2021. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.

Georgina77

Vancouver Island in December
Past OR future Camino
Future July 2015 hopefully......... did it awesome :)
I understand the desire for levity, as well as the need to head off any potential hysteria about crimes against women on the Camino. At the same time, if I had been molested/harassed/bothered on the Camino by a man because I am a woman I wouldn't feel welcome to post about it in this thread and maybe not in this forum.


life happens and not all people are honest or trust worthy no matter where you go but if you know what areas to avoid you have a better chance of keeping your self safe and if more people were willing to open up and be honest maybe they could even find out what happened to Denise Some one saw something no one just disappears with bag and baggage and if this happened to her it can happen again and that is something to keep in mind for sure I will
 

Joyce Clemens

New Member
Past OR future Camino
planning to walk the camino beginning in late April, coming from USA
Someone on the American pilgrim site posted this. I read that the police has been talking to various women who said they had been molested. Has any of you had this kind of experience? http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/provincia/mes-muchos-interrogantes_976412.html
I had what I will call a "creepy experience". A young man called to me from behind "Hola Perigrina". I turned saw the man ov about 25 years of age. I am 55 years old. He introduced himself as Jose from Burgos and asked my name. Then he shook my hand, pulled me close and stuck his tongue in my mouth. I pushed him away and said No and wiped my mouth. He tried one more time, then left when I refused. As he was walking away, I called "Jose". When he turned around I took his picture with my phone.

Does this sound to any of you readers like something I should report? I am home now and this happened over two weeks ago just west of Puente de Reina along the river not far out of town.

Thanks
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
I had what I will call a "creepy experience". A young man called to me from behind "Hola Perigrina". I turned saw the man ov about 25 years of age. I am 55 years old. He introduced himself as Jose from Burgos and asked my name. Then he shook my hand, pulled me close and stuck his tongue in my mouth. I pushed him away and said No and wiped my mouth. He tried one more time, then left when I refused. As he was walking away, I called "Jose". When he turned around I took his picture with my phone.

Does this sound to any of you readers like something I should report? I am home now and this happened over two weeks ago just west of Puente de Reina along the river not far out of town.

Thanks
Good Lord. We didn't need to scratch the surface very much to start hearing the stories. It sounds to me like the women need to not take anyone's hand. I would report anything at this time.
 

Cailin O Eire

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Walked Sarria to Santiago Easter 2014
Hope to walk for 5 days from St Jean Pied De Port to wherever my feet bring me to first week of June 2016
I had what I will call a "creepy experience". A young man called to me from behind "Hola Perigrina". I turned saw the man ov about 25 years of age. I am 55 years old. He introduced himself as Jose from Burgos and asked my name. Then he shook my hand, pulled me close and stuck his tongue in my mouth. I pushed him away and said No and wiped my mouth. He tried one more time, then left when I refused. As he was walking away, I called "Jose". When he turned around I took his picture with my phone.

Does this sound to any of you readers like something I should report? I am home now and this happened over two weeks ago just west of Puente de Reina along the river not far out of town.

Thanks
I'm glad you feel able to tell your story and in my opinion you should report it, and supply the photo you took also. A good kick up the rear and other things I'll refrain from saying is what he deserves!
Take care of yourself and I hope it didn't take from your camino experience.
Rita
 
Create your own ad
€1,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
Camino Jewellery
A selection of Camino Jewellery

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
Yes
Snip...

Does this sound to any of you readers like something I should report? I am home now and this happened over two weeks ago just west of Puente de Reina along the river not far out of town.

Thanks

Joyce....
I really hope you will report this along with the picture.

Maybe one of our members living in Spain with a better knowledge of the Spanish system can advise you of the most effective way of doing that.

It has become very obvious that there are many unreported instances.
The authorities can do nothing to stop these outrages if they have no knowledge that they are happening.

Actually....most of us who have been involved with the Camino for a long time are astounded at the number of reports. Is it a new thing that is associated with large numbers now on the Camino?.....or is it because they have not been reported in the past?
 

rubyslippers

Ruby Slippers
Past OR future Camino
April-May (2008) September (2012)
Why do females, in particular, feel that they need to be "friendly" or smile or shake someone's hand. Why? Men don't feel the need. I've had heard fellow crew members say to a passenger, "smile, it can't be that bad!" I told them, "how do you know? It might be that bad." It's one of the things people always hate or love about Americans. "you guys are so friendly, you're always smiling." I just want to say here that I'm very friendly, but if I don't know you I feel no need to engage. I don't walk up to someone and start talking or asking questions. Women are judged if we aren't "friendly". We need to learn to be a little more skeptical and keep our distance initially. If some guy grabbed my hand and stuck his tongue in my mouth he'd be lying on the ground looking up and one of us would be going to jail. That is just wrong on so many levels. I don't want to sound like I'm "Judging". I've been grouped too, but we need to be self-aware and more protective of our physical environment. Just one more reason I carry poles. They have sharp pointy ends.
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Madrid/San Salvador/Primitivo-2021
Why do females, in particular, feel that they need to be "friendly" or smile or shake someone's hand. Why? Men don't feel the need. I've had heard fellow crew members say to a passenger, "smile, it can't be that bad!" I told them, "how do you know? It might be that bad." It's one of the things people always hate or love about Americans. "you guys are so friendly, you're always smiling." I just want to say here that I'm very friendly, but if I don't know you I feel no need to engage. I don't walk up to someone and start talking or asking questions. Women are judged if we aren't "friendly". We need to learn to be a little more skeptical and keep our distance initially. If some guy grabbed my hand and stuck his tongue in my mouth he'd be lying on the ground looking up and one of us would be going to jail. That is just wrong on so many levels. I don't want to sound like I'm "Judging". I've been grouped too, but we need to be self-aware and more protective of our physical environment. Just one more reason I carry poles. They have sharp pointy ends.

No one should ever have to endure unwanted attention. Least of all any type of Physical contact like kissing or groping.

Joyce, I hope you report the incident along with the picture. I think the idea of picture taking is a great idea with these, imo, pathetic/disturbed individuals who feel these actions are acceptable behavior.

Maybe forum members, who reside in Spain, could offer better advise on how to approach these types of scenarios and how to follow up on their resolution.

I am still hopeful that these are isolated incidences but they need to be addressed and nipped in the bud.

Joe
 

Georgina77

Vancouver Island in December
Past OR future Camino
Future July 2015 hopefully......... did it awesome :)
I had what I will call a "creepy experience". A young man called to me from behind "Hola Perigrina". I turned saw the man ov about 25 years of age. I am 55 years old. He introduced himself as Jose from Burgos and asked my name. Then he shook my hand, pulled me close and stuck his tongue in my mouth. I pushed him away and said No and wiped my mouth. He tried one more time, then left when I refused. As he was walking away, I called "Jose". When he turned around I took his picture with my phone.

Does this sound to any of you readers like something I should report? I am home now and this happened over two weeks ago just west of Puente de Reina along the river not far out of town.

Thanks


That is really awful I know some young men think they are smart or funny while others just really like older women but I would say he went too far for sure and Yes his picture would be a good one to forward on to the Spanish police in my opinion and I hope you do ....as he may be known to them for this kind of behavior... ...to grab you is being really aggressive and then stick his tongue in your mouth is forcing himself on you sexually and that is awful ......

Edited by moderator.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Camino Socks
Browse the Camino Socks collection on the forum shop
Camino Jewellery
A selection of Camino Jewellery

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
Oh dear, it's Mr Spain having to comment again. Whilst we may ALL hate it (including me!), one can be prosecuted here in Spain for taking photos of other people without their consent. There were huge problems getting video cameras installed at railways stations, shopping centres etc. We took the Alicante police to Thanet, UK to see how they can be used for the common good. Ironically, the Madrid bombings of 2004 moved CCTV forward faster than 1000s of hours of meeetings.

If you really think that the Spanish police are going to get excited about this incident, I am afraid my experience tells me different. Joyce, whilst I hate to give in to the scumbags, and if I were more local would be inclined to deal with it "off the record", I honestly think you should put it down to one bad day on the camino and enjoy the next 30. You really do not want to get involve with the Spanish legal system if you can avoid it.
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
You really do not want to get involved with the Spanish legal system if you can avoid it.
I endorse that idea! Having been raised on John Wayne movies, I love instant justice as much as the next American, but none of these events are happening in the U.S., and the Spanish legal system is quite different. It is a civil law system based on Roman law, something quite different from the U.S. common law system. Ideas like trying to shame a perpetrator to his neighbors might work out quite differently than it does in the U.S.

Money talks. If juntas think that Camino tourism is being damaged by sexual assault, the government might pay a bit of attention. Right now, it is probably easier to get a disinterested police department to show a little interest than it is to stop sexual assault. Letting tourist officials know about the problem may be the best long term solution. Aggressive dogs on the loose are a thing of the past because juntas got involved.

Of course, it will have to happen in Spanish in Spain, not in an English-speaking chat room... ;)
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
Culturally speaking, what do Spanish men think women walking alone are up to? Think about that one. Not the educated Spanish men, I'm talking blue collar...
 

wayfarer

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
2012
Culturally speaking, what do Spanish men think women walking alone are up to? Think about that one. Not the educated Spanish men, I'm talking blue collar...
Being a creep knows no financial, social or educational boundaries unfortunately. I was assaulted while hitch-hiking at the age of 16 by a wealthy, well spoken pervert driving a brand new Mercedes.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
Being a creep knows no financial, social or educational boundaries unfortunately. I was assaulted while hitch-hiking at the age of 16 by a wealthy, well spoken pervert driving a brand new Mercedes.

That must have been upsetting...I have had some bad experiences with flashers, one who wanted to do more than flash. I had to swim off an island to escape. That's a long story and I won't detail it, but good thing I was a strong swimmer!
 
Fine art photography from the Camino Ways.
Camino Maps
A collection of Camino Maps from the Camino Forum Store

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
You said it more diplomatically than I would have. A scumbag is a scumbag whether he wears a pin-stripe or a shepherd's smock.

Yes, I was accosted by a middle-class perv who wanted me to get in the back of his Jaguar (deluxe UK car). This was apparently my thanks for a 100+ mile hitch . As he got in the back, I dashed out and threw his keys over a hedge. I flagged down a working class lorry driver who wanted to ram the Jag off the road.

Black, white, Latvian or lesbian ..... there are scumbags out there . Fortunately 99% of all folk are all great!
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances; Aragones; VdlP; Madrid-Invierno; Levante
To suggest that "Latvian or Lesbian" are just as likely to sexually assault is not helpful. In the camino context, this is a behaviour of Spanish males and a threat to solo female pilgrims. Please do not minimize it.
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
To suggest that "Latvian or Lesbian" are just as likely to sexually assault is not helpful. In the camino context, this is a behaviour of Spanish males and a threat to solo female pilgrims. Please do not minimize it.

So perhaps you are suggesting that we go back to my very specific question: how must Spanish men perceive women walking solo?
 

ThisIsSpain

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2015)
To suggest that "Latvian or Lesbian" are just as likely to sexually assault is not helpful. In the camino context, this is a behaviour of Spanish males and a threat to solo female pilgrims. Please do not minimize it.

I am NOT minimising it. It is a quote I use frequently. The entire point is that 99% of Spanish males are no threat to solo female pilgrims. As we have all read and or experienced 99% of all the local Spaniards are more than hospitable and friendly in a positive way. More than 30,000 killed in gun related deaths in USA every year. Let's get real about safety in Spain
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Camino Socks
Browse the Camino Socks collection on the forum shop
John Brierley 2022 Camino Guide
The most selling Camino Guide is shipping November 1st. Get your today and start planning.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Did not find what you were looking for? Search here

Popular Resources

“All” Albergues on the Camino Frances in one pdf ivar
  • Featured
“All” Albergues on the Camino Frances in one pdf
4.95 star(s) 102 ratings
Downloads
15,332
Updated
A selection of favorite albergues on the Camino Francés Ton van Tilburg
Favorite Albergues along the Camino Frances
4.83 star(s) 35 ratings
Downloads
7,999
Updated
Profile maps of all 34 stages of the Camino Frances ivar
Profile maps of all 34 stages of the Camino Frances
4.88 star(s) 24 ratings
Downloads
7,767
Updated

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Updates on YouTube

Camino Conversations

Most downloaded Resources

Top