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Looking for pilgrim On a pilgrim hunt for an essay

Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#1
Hello all,

Please allow me to introduce myself as I've just discovered this forum as potentially being very helpful in finding the right person for a photography essay that I am planning.

My name is Leon Neal and I'm a staff editorial photographer for Getty Images, based in London. As a member of the photo team, we're expected to find interesting essays and features that may make strong image packages for our clients. I've been pondering the idea of working on something related to pilgrimages for a while but had been looking at longer routes in Europe. However, having read about St Thomas' Way and seen a number of interesting reports and blog posts on events such as the LMS walking pilgrimage, I'm now thinking that it would be great to focus on a UK route.

While I'm not looking for someone to be dressed as a medieval saint, I also am looking for someone who may be attempting something a little different to a traditional hike. Steven Payne's 14th century pilgrimage in 2015 would have been fascinating to document! Do any readers here know of any planned pilgrimages by anyone which could fit this description?

Many thanks for any help that anyone can offer. I'm well aware that I'm appearing out of the blue and asking for help but I know from experience that the forums are where you'll often find the most knowledge on any subject!

Cheers,

Leon
 

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Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#2
Hello all,

Please allow me to introduce myself as I've just discovered this forum as potentially being very helpful in finding the right person for a photography essay that I am planning.

My name is Leon Neal and I'm a staff editorial photographer for Getty Images, based in London. As a member of the photo team, we're expected to find interesting essays and features that may make strong image packages for our clients. I've been pondering the idea of working on something related to pilgrimages for a while but had been looking at longer routes in Europe. However, having read about St Thomas' Way and seen a number of interesting reports and blog posts on events such as the LMS walking pilgrimage, I'm now thinking that it would be great to focus on a UK route.

While I'm not looking for someone to be dressed as a medieval saint, I also am looking for someone who may be attempting something a little different to a traditional hike. Steven Payne's 14th century pilgrimage in 2015 would have been fascinating to document! Do any readers here know of any planned pilgrimages by anyone which could fit this description?

Many thanks for any help that anyone can offer. I'm well aware that I'm appearing out of the blue and asking for help but I know from experience that the forums are where you'll often find the most knowledge on any subject!

Cheers,

Leon
Hello all,

Please allow me to introduce myself as I've just discovered this forum as potentially being very helpful in finding the right person for a photography essay that I am planning.

My name is Leon Neal and I'm a staff editorial photographer for Getty Images, based in London. As a member of the photo team, we're expected to find interesting essays and features that may make strong image packages for our clients. I've been pondering the idea of working on something related to pilgrimages for a while but had been looking at longer routes in Europe. However, having read about St Thomas' Way and seen a number of interesting reports and blog posts on events such as the LMS walking pilgrimage, I'm now thinking that it would be great to focus on a UK route.

While I'm not looking for someone to be dressed as a medieval saint, I also am looking for someone who may be attempting something a little different to a traditional hike. Steven Payne's 14th century pilgrimage in 2015 would have been fascinating to document! Do any readers here know of any planned pilgrimages by anyone which could fit this description?

Many thanks for any help that anyone can offer. I'm well aware that I'm appearing out of the blue and asking for help but I know from experience that the forums are where you'll often find the most knowledge on any subject!

Cheers,

Leon
Hello @LeonPhotographer, welcome to the forum. As you have a working relationship with Getty Images you will be aware that this company makes substantial profits from what some would describe as ‘hoovering up’ images for resale and licensing deals. I am an academic whose work is primarily concerned with images & I often have had to pay top dollar for the use of images copyrighted by Getty. For goodwill and transparency I suggest that you make clear that you will offer a contract to any person whose photographs you will use.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#3
Hello @LeonPhotographer, welcome to the forum. As you have a working relationship with Getty Images you will be aware that this company makes substantial profits from what some would describe as ‘hoovering up’ images for resale and licensing deals. I am an academic whose work is primarily concerned with images & I often have had to pay top dollar for the use of images copyrighted by Getty. For goodwill and transparency I suggest that you make clear that you will offer a contract to any person whose photographs you will use.
Hello Seb,

Thanks for your reply. Getty Images is a company that shoots images, stories and features which are then provided to our clients through a paid subscription service. Like most businesses, we make a product and sell it. In this case, I make photographs and people pay a fee to the company to use them in their publications. As for substantial profits, yes, I'm happy to say that the company is doing well and through the work of skilled photographers and contributors is going from strength to strength, allowing photographers such as myself to document interesting projects that aren't necessarily money spinners such as showbiz glamour and football stars. Personally, I love meeting people who are involved in interesting hobbies, ways of life or personal interests and documenting what they do in a sympathetic and positive manner.

I'm a bit confused by your reference to "hoovering up" but that suggests you've had some negative experience in that past with media? Forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems like quite a defensive response. As far as good will and transparency goes, I hope there's no suggestion that you considered my original request to be somehow covert as it explains who I am and what I'm aiming to do. In the same way that a newspaper may interview a person and then sell the paper on for profit, Getty Images does the same with photographs; funding it's photographers to document events and people of interest who our clients may want to learn more about.

Regarding contracts, what are you referring to? Again, apologies if I'm wrong but I think you may be confusing the Getty Creative side, which sells stock images to publications and organisations with the Editorial team. There would be no contract as it doesn't require any model release forms etc. If a person is happy to be photographed or is in a public place, there's no need to have any contractual agreement, as long as the image is for editorial use. If it's going to go into our stock library, which it won't be, then a contract would be required.

I hope that clears up any confusion you have with my request. I'm simply hoping to document the travels and passions of members of the pilgrimage community as they do the thing they love.

Many thanks again for your reply.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Portugues 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#4
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#5
Hi @SYates ,

Thanks for the tips. I'll give them a go as both sound like they could be worth investigating.

As I said before, we're the editorial side of Getty so I can offer some prints to anyone who would be involved. The Creative side of the company uses models and requires contracts etc so will pay people that are involved. However, the editorial side is more like a newspaper and is spreading a story to a wider audience through images as it's business model. As you wouldn't expected to be paid by the Telegraph if they came to interview you about a news story, the Editorial aspect of Getty operates in the same manner. I personally always make sure that I provide a set of prints to people that I work with which would, if all went well, be a unique set of high quality photos that you wouldn't have otherwise.

I hope that makes sense as this aspect seems to be something that is causing some interest.

Many thanks again,

Leon
 

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Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#6
@LeonPhotographer, thank you for your reply to my post. I note the use of the word 'defensive' in relation to what I had written, always such an interesting choice of word. As an academic, my published work has always been unpaid and I bear the cost of travel, accommodation, photocopying etc., the reward being the privilege of being able to share with, or add to what others have thought, discovered or created, but always on a non-profit basis. This forum regularly hosts appeals for students seeking responses to questionnaires on attitudes and experiences of walking the Camino. Most members are happy to assist them with their coursework.
On the matter of 'hoovering up' images, I will offer some examples of other image companies. It was a surprise to me to discover last year that Walmart were selling tea-towels with an image (artist's copyright still live) by an artist whose life & work I am documenting. To add insult to injury, his surname was misspelt. Two other pictures agencies were licensing this man's work for reproduction until it was brought to their attention that his work was still in copyright.

When you write that you are 'simply hoping to document the travels and passions of members of the pilgrimage community as they do the thing they love.' it would be fair to add, 'for money' because it is a changed dynamic from someone doing the same, but for free. The CSJ that @SYates mentioned is always in need of donations and perhaps if you are successful with your project you might wish to consider sharing a percentage of your fee with an organisation that does so much to support pilgrims. Buen Camino!
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#7
I am always interested in a good stunt about the Camino. We have had almost everything but a unicycle. Perhaps there is a Member who has done the Camino on a unicycle. Monks robes, barefoot, and rosaries have been done, as has running it as an ultramarathon. I walked with a pilgrim who had only one leg (not a stunt, by the way). A film has been made about friends pushing a wheelchair (also not a stunt). Horses, burros, and wheelchairs have become pretty routine. Still, there must be some idea how to make something that 300,000+ per year complete into something unique. Good luck finding a Forum Member who will help. That might be unique...!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#8
@SEB My request here today was done with absolute transparency and with no attempt to hoodwink anyone regarding what I am aiming to do. I'm very glad that your unpaid published work provides you such happiness. Regarding image theft, I would be equally furious if my work was used illegally or used in a way which I found disagreeable. As far as I can see, the experiences you've had, or have heard of, don't have any bearing on my request today. In all of my replies, I haven't avoided mentioning that the company is a business, like any other news source. As I have said in previous answers, it operates in the same way as any news outlet, from your local weekly newspaper to the largest media conglomerate; sharing and providing news and features to clients and customers for a fee. I don't feel I can explain the business or my intentions any further without going around in circles. The last thing that I expected when politely approaching the group was a debate on "hoovering up" images, copyright theft and requests to end sentences with "for money". Please disregard my request for help.

@falcon269 Many thanks for the input. That's really appreciated. I'm not after any "stunts" as such as I don't want any images that I make to be able to be interpreted in any way other than supportive. It would be really easy to shoot someone doing something oddball and insinuate that the whole community is the same when it clearly isn't. Your mention of a disability is interesting as that isn't an aspect that I had considered. Thanks again.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#10
Leon, you seem to be in the U.K. Would it be possible for you to make contact with the CSJ people, and talk to them? It would be a pity to close off your search without a face to face chance to explain in greater detail what you actually wanted to do.
Thanks @kirkie I'll give them a go next week. These are all just initial enquiries as I try to see if there the idea has "legs" to make an interesting set of images. I'm actually in London so the CSJ is very close. Many thanks for your help!
 
Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#11
To the OP and fellow forum members, my apologies for being overly robust in my response to this thread. It was not a friendly thing to do and the fact that it was triggered by my experiences in a non-Camino context is an explanation not an excuse. Mea culpa. I have sent the @LeonPhotographer a pm and wish him well
 
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#13
To the OP and fellow forum members, my apologies for being overly robust in my response to this thread. It was not a friendly thing to do and the fact that it was triggered by my experiences in a non-Camino context is an explanation not an excuse. Mea culpa. I have sent the @LeonPhotographer a pm and wish him well
Many thanks for the message SEB. Please don't worry. The internet provides many great things but it also has a habit of allowing conversations to go in unpredictable directions without intention! Your message and help is really appreciated.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#17
Hello @LeonPhotographer, welcome to the forum. As you have a working relationship with Getty Images you will be aware that this company makes substantial profits from what some would describe as ‘hoovering up’ images for resale and licensing deals. I am an academic whose work is primarily concerned with images & I often have had to pay top dollar for the use of images copyrighted by Getty. For goodwill and transparency I suggest that you make clear that you will offer a contract to any person whose photographs you will use.
Hear, hear!

EDIT: nice debate after first two posts!!! I'll come back to you @LeonPhotographer but in PM)
 
Last edited:

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Portugues 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#18
@LeonPhotographer

Forgot to mention: You could also try to contact @wisepilgrim he is a fellow photographer, based here in Santiago, and might have some helpful idea.

Buen Camino, SY

PS Another idea would be to concentrate on one location and document the pilgrims coming through instead accompanying one pilgrim (group) along a way.
 

peterhore

Peter Hore
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-Burgos 2012, Burgos-Muxia 2013, Chemin de la Liberte 2014, Camino Ingles 2016, Rabanal 2017
#19
However, I agree with SEB - in the basis that Getty Images charge an arm and leg for their images, what is the point of helping Getty to create a library from which they profit, when there are already so many wonderful images available on this website.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Portugues 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#20
@peterhore

A) the images on this website are copyright by their owners and can't be used without permission, just because images exist somewhere doesn't mean there isn't a need for more.

B) There is a difference between editorial use of images, that is what @LeonPhotographer is talking about and use of images for advertisement (that is where the big bucks are, not in editorial).

Buen Camino, SY
 
Camino(s) past & future
Southern UK camino in 2018
#21
@LeonPhotographer

Forgot to mention: You could also try to contact @wisepilgrim he is a fellow photographer, based here in Santiago, and might have some helpful idea.

Buen Camino, SY

PS Another idea would be to concentrate on one location and document the pilgrims coming through instead accompanying one pilgrim (group) along a way.
Thanks @SYates I'll drop @wisepilgrim a line when I'm back on Monday and a huge thanks for your PS. That's a really good idea!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#22
Hello all,

Please allow me to introduce myself as I've just discovered this forum as potentially being very helpful in finding the right person for a photography essay that I am planning.

My name is Leon Neal and I'm a staff editorial photographer for Getty Images, based in London. As a member of the photo team, we're expected to find interesting essays and features that may make strong image packages for our clients. I've been pondering the idea of working on something related to pilgrimages for a while but had been looking at longer routes in Europe. However, having read about St Thomas' Way and seen a number of interesting reports and blog posts on events such as the LMS walking pilgrimage, I'm now thinking that it would be great to focus on a UK route.

While I'm not looking for someone to be dressed as a medieval saint, I also am looking for someone who may be attempting something a little different to a traditional hike. Steven Payne's 14th century pilgrimage in 2015 would have been fascinating to document! Do any readers here know of any planned pilgrimages by anyone which could fit this description?

Many thanks for any help that anyone can offer. I'm well aware that I'm appearing out of the blue and asking for help but I know from experience that the forums are where you'll often find the most knowledge on any subject!

Cheers,

Leon
Hi Leon,
Have you thought about the pilgrim path called St Peters Way in essex

It's about 42 miles long and goes from Chipping Ongar to Bradwell on sea where the beautifully restored medieval church sits?

Once a year...I don't know the date ...a group walks this way in a day ......again I don't know the name of this group or contact number but am sure you could find it on the internet

It's a lovely walk/way and not too well known as far as I'm aware
Best wishes
Annette
 

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