permethrin sprayed fitted sheet

[Jackie]

Hi,
I am thinking of bringing a permethrin sprayed fitted sheet on the camino to put over the mattresses in the albergue's. Has anyone tried this?? Does a regular fitted sheet from the u.s. fit a european twin mattress?? Maybe an extra long twin?? Is this a good or bad idea?? Thanks for the help. Jackie

 

[cher99840]

I saw several people putting a sheet on so it's appealing to some. To me putting it on and taking it off looked like more work than I would choose to do, especially on an upper bunk. I just used a permethrin soaked sleep sack.

 

[Ahhhs]

Someone (sorry I don't remember which helpful person) suggested making a sprayed "sheet" out of a lightweight bridal veil type of fabric that folds up very small and can be stored in a sandwich bag. That seems a lot lighter and easier than a fitted sheet.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

My appologies for the 2 empty responses: working with a Mini Ipad key board is not ideal.

It is illegal in Canada to sell items sprayed with permetherin. I have a sleeping bag liner bought in the US that is supposed to be effective for 25 washes. Since I only use on the Camino, it should be good for 25 Caminos ;0) An alternative to permetherin is a liner that is sold to cover the mattress made of a plasticky material that resembles a window screen. Problem with it is that it it not much larger than the mattress and moves around during the night, so you end up with a good part of the matress in contact with your sleeping bag of liner. Will problably leave it behind this year.

As for the light material Ahhhs is refering to, it's muslin.

 

[scruffy1]

One consideration:
"Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep,
may that sheet watch me through the night,
And keep me safe from those bedbugs and their bite."???
Do you really want to "lay me down" every night for a month and more on a bed of insecticide? DDT was also considered a safe as a poison for humans until it was discovered not to be. Bedbugs may be a worry but this issue is truly minor when considering all other issues of the Camino. Bedbugs have become a proplem in many places in Europe and America, they will not be found in every albergue along the Camino if at all, I would worry far more about mosquitoes or the cleanliness of kitchen utensils in communal kitchens - tummy bugs and itchy scratchy are more common.

 

[SYates]

I have been recently on the Camino Frances and have not been bitten myself but saw the occasional pilgrim with bites. Also bedbugs worldwide become more and more resistant to Permethrin, which is a repellent, not an insecticide btw. Far more important, in my opinion, is the complete cleaning and de-bedbugging of ALL your gear when you come home, as bed bugs / their could hide pretty much everywhere in it. Buen Camino sin chinches, SY

 

[Pilgrim-S-414]

I've used this bed bug sheet , more of a net actually, and sprayed my sleeping bag with Permetherin prior to departure.
Sheet dimensions are 200 x 100cm and that worked fine on albergue mattresses.
Had no problems with bed bugs in April (although a few pilgrims were bitten) nor with any health related side-effects.
I seem to recall a lengthy debate on that issue but can't find that forum thread.

 

[dougfitz]

I have been recently on the Camino Frances and have not been bitten myself but saw the occasional pilgrim with bites. Also bedbugs worldwide become more and more resistant to Permethrin, which is a repellent, not an insecticide btw. Far more important, in my opinion, is the complete cleaning and de-bedbugging of ALL your gear when you come home, as bed bugs / their could hide pretty much everywhere in it. Buen Camino sin chinches, SY

@SYates, permethrin is an insectide and acaricide as well as being an insect repellent. It is a pretty indiscriminate poison, and care needs to be taken in its use. The safety precautions and waste disposal would, perhaps, be more difficult to achieve on the camino. As @Pilgrim-S-414 says, there was an active discussion on this some time ago on the forum.

 

[SYates]

I stand corrected dougfitz! Thank you! SY

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Permethrin, which is a repellent, not an insecticide

That is backward; it is an insecticide, not a repellent. The implication is that they will avoid it because they sense it is lethal. That probably is not true, but it will kill the bugs that may hitch a ride in your pack. DEET, effective for lots of insects, does not repel bed bugs. Once dry, permethrin is safe for humans (EPA opinion). In Canada you can dip your horse in it, but human uses have not been approved. Thus, you can buy it in a horse supply store, but not a sporting goods store. Every tourist office in France sells it.

 

[SYates]

Falcon, please see my post directly above yours ;-) SY

 

[dougfitz]

That is backward; it is an insecticide, not a repellent. The implication is that they will avoid it because they sense it is lethal. That probably is not true, but it will kill the bugs that may hitch a ride in your pack. DEET, effective for lots of insects, does not repel bed bugs. Once dry, permethrin is safe for humans (EPA opinion). In Canada you can dip your horse in it, but human uses have not been approved. Thus, you can buy it in a horse supply store, but not a sporting goods store. Every tourist office in France sells it.

@falcon269, I suspect that most insecticides don't work well or at all on arachnids, including bed-bugs and mites. Permethrin is an acaricide as well as an insecticide, and works well on both, although there is some evidence in the public domain of permethrin resistance growing in some bed-bug populations.

On your other claim, I suspect human use of permethrin has been approved in Canada for very specific purposes. Its most common approved use is in treatment of head lice, where it is a component of shampoos or rinses, and it is in quite low concentrations.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Canada does seem to permit permethrin products:

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001ANQVYU/?tag=santiagodec0b-20

 

[dougfitz]

Canada does seem to permit permethrin products: http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001ANQVYU/?tag=santiagodec0b-20

Reading the MSDS, this product is a pesticide, rather than for a 'human use' like a head lice shampoo. The instructions are clear that any garments or bedding treated should be allowed to dry before use. Once dry, permethrin is considered safe for humans, domestic pets etc. Just don't have cats nearby when applying the product - it is quite dangerous for them when still in solution.

 

[Tincatinker]

Typing Permethrin in the search facility on this forum will lead the searcher to innumerable threads. An afternoon spent reading them will lead most to the conclusion that Permethrin works. Yes it is a toxin (otherwise it wouldn't kill things) but its toxic attributes can be successfully managed. A Permethrin treated fitted sheet is a practical method of managing the bed-bug nuisance. It won't eliminate it but there is plenty of advice in this forum on other, additional, preventative measures that the sensitive should undertake.

The OP refers to a European Twin Mattress (?) I have encountered even fewer of such in Albergues than I have the dread bug

 

[joe g texas aggies]

Hi,
I am thinking of bringing a permethrin sprayed fitted sheet on the camino to put over the mattresses in the albergue's. Has anyone tried this?? Does a regular fitted sheet from the u.s. fit a european twin mattress?? Maybe an extra long twin?? Is this a good or bad idea?? Thanks for the help. Jackie

Rather than bring a fitted sheet, with all the attendant problems that you noted, I recently purchased a Tyvek sheet that I intend to spray with permethrin. The sheet cost me $9.00 plus shipping and handling. I purchased the sheet on Amazon. I forgot the dimensions of the sheet, but it would easily cover a bed. I intend to lay the sheet on top of the bed and under my sleeping bag.

For the person that noted the DDT problem - yes it is dangerous. However, I recently read an article that speculated more people have died from malaria than would have died from exposure to DDT after it was banned. Is the article accurate? Who knows. But the subject is worth some discussion by the experts in this area.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

For the person that noted the DDT problem - yes it is dangerous. However, I recently read an article that speculated more people have died from malaria than would have died from exposure to DDT after it was banned. Is the article accurate? Who knows. But the subject is worth some discussion by the experts in this area.

Jackie, DDT may have had it upside vs malaria, but I remember all my reading from my MA's thesis on environmetal issues in the former USSR and the damage was just incredible. And it's not because in DDT problems vs malaria, DDT wins, that in the 'non deadly disease' vs malaria competition we do not lose.

 

[scruffy1]

DDT brought the bedbugs to the point of extinction. Since it was banned they have returned big time. DDT was used against mosquito populations in the fight against malaria and is still allowed when a large scale epidemic occurs, was a treatment for tinea capitis - ringworm of the scalp, for rodent eradication, and was in general use varmint control. It was a link to diabetes, DDT remained active in the environment devastating birds of prey, bats, scavengers, even house pets who ate the poisoned varmints, and here in Israel has been linked to cancer among those infected with t.c. The long term effects on human health and upon the environment outweigh possible benefits.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Following the bend in the topic line from permethrin to DDT, DDT probably got a bad rap:

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C06/C06Links/www.altgreen.com.au/Chemicals/ddt.html

 

[Dave2525]

I brought a treated sheet and never used it once, eventually ditching it as dead weight.

Later on I was covered in bites but I attribute this to using albergue blankets instead of my sleeping bag (the bag was treated on the outside)

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I attribute this to using albergue blankets

Bed bugs live in the wall and bed frame, not the blankets! The blankets may not be really clean, but they won't be the source of the bed bugs!

 

[wayfarer]

Following the bend in the topic line from permethrin to DDT, DDT probably got a bad rap:

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C06/C06Links/www.altgreen.com.au/Chemicals/ddt.html

I believe DDT did indeed get a bad rap and banning it cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives in Africa where it was being used to combat malaria carrying mosquitos.

 

[Jackie]

Bed bugs live in the wall and bed frame, not the blankets! The blankets may not be really clean, but they won't be the source of the bed bugs!

Do you know if a standard US twin will fit on the albergue mattress or a twin xl from the U.S.? Thanks.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Permethrin is available in Spain. Just don't be too quick to use the stuff.
I've lived and traveled and hospitalero-ed in close quarters with camino pilgrims for nine years, and have never had bedbugs that I know of... and I am allergic to everything that lives, moves and has being. (Knock wood.)
I have dealt with many pilgrims with welts and bites and wounds. We've treated their gear and sent them to the shower and jumped through all the hoops. I live dead-center on the Meseta.
I am not saying that people with bug problems are imagining things -- I saw a hair-raising infestation with my own eyes in a beloved albergue not far from here. But people planning their trips should think twice about sleeping with poison sheets, to stave off something that really is pretty rare. Permethrin is strong stuff, and it can kill a cat. (I love my cat, so I tell pilgrims to not spray things in my house!)

If you have a problem in Spain with insects, go to a veterinarian or farm-supplies store and get a spray-bottle of "Strong Dogo." It's Permethrin formulated for dog kennels and catteries. It's supposed to be safe for humans, but Don't get it in your eyes or on your skin when wet, and don't use it near food or eating utensils.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Do you know if a standard US twin will fit on the albergue mattress or a twin xl from the U.S.? Thanks.

I do not. Pillows are usually square or long cylinders. I made my own nylon sleep sack with a pouch for the pillow. However, the mattress are variable. I am 6' tall, and often my feet and head simultaneously hit the rails at the end of the bed. Other mattresses were longer. With the XL you probably cover all the variations, and would only need to tuck in extra material on the short mattresses.

 

[cherrys]

Do you know if a standard US twin will fit on the albergue mattress or a twin xl from the U.S.? Thanks.

I make quilts for a living, so am pretty good at judging bed sizes. I never saw an XL mattress all the way across from SJPDP. I too am planning on making a very light weight fittted bottom sheet - I'll just put lots of elastic in the corners and make it a bit deeper to make it work hopefully 90% of the time. I was thinking of spraying the edges with permethrin, not necessarily where my body will lay, as a compromise.

 

[cher99840]

Whether or not to use permethrin is a personal choice, but hopefully those of you who are against it are aware that Exofficio bugs-away clothing is permethrin treated. I'm personally a fan of it, but if I chose to avoid it, I'd want to know that.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

spraying the edges with permethrin

That is hard to do, and probably would be ineffective. I have had bed bugs drop on me from the top bunk. Once dry, permethrin is not toxic to humans. You may have to take that on faith!

 

[Jackie]

I make quilts for a living, so am pretty good at judging bed sizes. I never saw an XL mattress all the way across from SJPDP. I too am planning on making a very light weight fittted bottom sheet - I'll just put lots of elastic in the corners and make it a bit deeper to make it work hopefully 90% of the time. I was thinking of spraying the edges with permethrin, not necessarily where my body will lay, as a compromise.

thats a great idea of only treating the edges. I want to use the sheet so I don't have to treat my sleeping bag. What material are you planing of using?? Thanks, Jackie

 

[Anemone del Camino]

That is hard to do, and probably would be ineffective. I have had bed bugs drop on me from the top bunk. Once dry, permethrin is not toxic to humans. You may have to take that on faith!

And what happens with it when you get caught in the rain, or wash your clothes? Still no damaging?

 

[C clearly]

I suspect that the confusion about whether permethrin is allowed in Canada relates to whether manufacturers are allowed to CLAIM effectiveness in deterring bedbugs. And for that, there isn't a lot of information, so they cannot advertise permethrin as a bedbug repellent. But permethrin is sold in Canada.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of good scientific information to help pilgrims avoid bedbugs! Here's an interesting paper on effectiveness of a permethrin-impregnated fabric: http://www.mdpi.com/2075-4450/4/2/230 . My take-away from the paper is that treating a sheet with permethrin MIGHT help, a bit. Note the finer points such as how long the bedbug needs to be exposed to the treated fabric before it is adversely affected. It is not clear if bedbugs will avoid traipsing across on my permethrin-treated sheet, and instead pass by my mattress and head over to the next bed for a meal that night. Here's a discussion on the subject of sheets: http://www.bedbugcentral.com/bedbugs101/mattress-and-box-spring-encasements .

Regarding sheet size, I made a flexible-size sheet of light-weight cotton voile with mitered corners at the head end, big enough for a 39" wide mattress. At the bottom end I tucked the end under the mattress and brought a piece of elastic over the mattress to hold it (second photo), whatever the length of the bed. I sprayed it with permethrin from Canadian Tire.

Did it work? Dunno. I encountered bedbugs but hadn't use the mattress cover for a few days!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

And what happens with it when you get caught in the rain, or wash your clothes? Still no damaging?

Most treatments last for about six washings. I protect my sleep sack from the rain, so it has never gotten wet. If it were wet, I would treat it the same way I do for the original application, and avoid touching it until it is dry. Here are the safety instructions:

 

[dougfitz]

And what happens with it when you get caught in the rain, or wash your clothes? Still no damaging?

That's a good question. The MSDS states that there are no environmental precautions required for accidental release under normal use conditions. I would think that this would apply to laundry or rain soaked clothing.

 

[cherrys]

thats a great idea of only treating the edges. I want to use the sheet so I don't have to treat my sleeping bag. What material are you planing of using?? Thanks, Jackie

I'm not sure - I have a bolt of really thin gingham material I might use, or a very light weight muslin or batiste.. I'm not a fan of synthetic fabrics to sleep in, so am stuck a bit. I will prewash some stuff and try it out here before committing to it. I also need to do more reading on permethrin, too, as all I know about it is what I read on this forum (which is actually quite a bit). Does it wash off when laundered? And I guess the bed bugs dropping from above is finally a good reason to pick a top bunk!

 

[ranthr]

Hi,
I am thinking of bringing a permethrin sprayed fitted sheet on the camino to put over the mattresses in the albergue's. Has anyone tried this?? Does a regular fitted sheet from the u.s. fit a european twin mattress?? Maybe an extra long twin?? Is this a good or bad idea?? Thanks for the help. Jackie

I brought a bedbugsheet on the VDLP some years ago, but ended up using it as a top layer. Good agaist the mosquitos during the night. Since then I bought another one and have sewn the two together to a "bag" that I put outside my silklinenbag (also treated with permethrin). Now it functions much better.

 

[kiwiDavid]

Hi Jackie - I used a single fitted sheet with permethrin in 2012 - worked really well and no hassle.It fitted every mattress,didn't weigh much and worked.There were several occasions when pilgrims around me were bitten by bedbugs and I wasn't - it was worth taking.
kiwiDave

 

[Jackie]

Hi Jackie - I used a single fitted sheet with permethrin in 2012 - worked really well and no hassle.It fitted every mattress,didn't weigh much and worked.There were several occasions when pilgrims around me were bitten by bedbugs and I wasn't - it was worth taking.
kiwiDave

did you use a standard twin size??

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I suspect that the confusion about whether permethrin is allowed in Canada relates to whether manufacturers are allowed to CLAIM effectiveness in deterring bedbugs.

Nah, if you go to a "bug ridding store" they will not sell it to you unless you tell them it is for the use it is OK'd for. I'm surprised it's for sale on Amazon for spraying clothes. Then again I have read blogs and al. where people cite the Cdn Ministry of this or that suggesting it as a good solution, yet making it illegal to use it that way. Yeah, I can't keep up with our government's strange positions either.

 

[kiwiDavid]

Hi Jackie - I used a single fitted sheet with permethrin in 2012 - worked really well and no hassle.It fitted every mattress,didn't weigh much and worked.There were several occasions when pilgrims around me were bitten by bedbugs and I wasn't - it was worth taking.
kiwiDave

Hi Jackie - not sure what a standard twin size sheet is(I'm a male).Bearing in mind I'm in Brisbane Australia I bought a standard single fitted sheet - it fits a standard single size mattress - seemed to fit all the bunk mattresses I came across - Dave

 

[paul.ferris]

My appologies for the 2 empty responses: working with a Mini Ipad key board is not ideal.

It is illegal in Canada to sell items sprayed with permetherin. I have a sleeping bag liner bought in the US that is supposed to be effective for 25 washes. Since I only use on the Camino, it should be good for 25 Caminos ;0) An alternative to permetherin is a liner that is sold to cover the mattress made of a plasticky material that resembles a window screen. Problem with it is that it it not much larger than the mattress and moves around during the night, so you end up with a good part of the matress in contact with your sleeping bag of liner. Will problably leave it behind this year.

As for the light material Ahhhs is refering to, it's muslin.

As a fellow Canadian I am glad that permetherin sprayed items can not be sold in Canada. That should be a warning to the wise. I use an effective natural product which feels great on your skin, smells good and repels bed bugs. It is called Tea Tree Oil and is readily available in health shops. As a bonus it will take the itch out of insect bites and will treat the foot fungus that you may pick up in the albergue showers. It is the product that was recommended in the 'pharmacia' in Spain.

 

[SYates]

There is no scientific study I know of that shows that Tea Tree Oil repels, much less kills, bed bugs. It might have some anti-allergic reaction properties in some cases, but no more. Buen Camino sin chinches, SY

 

[Deleted member 3000]

As a fellow Canadian I am glad that permetherin sprayed items can not be sold in Canada.

Actually, the Canadian military uses permethrin treated clothing.

Permethrin is registered for use in Canada in over 230
products, including technical grade active ingredient and
formulated pesticides (PMRA 2004). Trade and other names
used for permethrin-based pesticides include, but are not
limited to, Ambush, Atroban, Dragnet, Ectiban, Evercide,
Permanone, Pounce, Pramex and Raid Fumigator. The
various permethrin-based pesticides registered in Canada are
used for a wide variety of purposes including: general
insecticide products for domestic use; flea and tick control
on household pets; insect control on agricultural crops,
orchards, nurseries and in greenhouses; biting insect control
in livestock (e.g., treated ear tags); as a perimeter application
for control of adult mosquitoes around buildings; application
to military clothing and mosquito netting; and others.
Permethrin is also registered for restricted use on
commercial woodlots (PMRA 2004).

 

[paul.ferris]

Actually, the Canadian military uses permethrin treated clothing.

Permethrin is registered for use in Canada in over 230
products, including technical grade active ingredient and
formulated pesticides (PMRA 2004). Trade and other names
used for permethrin-based pesticides include, but are not
limited to, Ambush, Atroban, Dragnet, Ectiban, Evercide,
Permanone, Pounce, Pramex and Raid Fumigator. The
various permethrin-based pesticides registered in Canada are
used for a wide variety of purposes including: general
insecticide products for domestic use; flea and tick control
on household pets; insect control on agricultural crops,
orchards, nurseries and in greenhouses; biting insect control
in livestock (e.g., treated ear tags); as a perimeter application
for control of adult mosquitoes around buildings; application
to military clothing and mosquito netting; and others.
Permethrin is also registered for restricted use on
commercial woodlots (PMRA 2004).

Doesn't sound like the sort of toxin that you would want to wrap yourself up in at night. Science only says that it is safe for humans until evidence indicates that it is unsafe. I like to err on the side of caution.

 

[paul.ferris]

There is no scientific study I know of that shows that Tea Tree Oil repels, much less kills, bed bugs. It might have some anti-allergic reaction properties in some cases, but no more. Buen Camino sin chinches, SY

I haven't looked into the science. It was recommended by a chemist

There is no scientific study I know of that shows that Tea Tree Oil repels, much less kills, bed bugs. It might have some anti-allergic reaction properties in some cases, but no more. Buen Camino sin chinches, SY

I haven't looked into what science has been done on Tea Tree Oil. It was recommended by a chemist (pharmacist in Canada) and I can verify that it has been effective for the uses that I have stated for myself and others. There is also a clear understanding amongst herbalists that it is effective for these things.

 

[dougfitz]

I haven't looked into what science has been done on Tea Tree Oil. It was recommended by a chemist (pharmacist in Canada) and I can verify that it has been effective for the uses that I have stated for myself and others. There is also a clear understanding amongst herbalists that it is effective for these things.

I think I will stick with products and compounds whose use and safety precautions have been established using scientific methods. Anecdotal evidence and a so called 'clear understanding' are no substitute for reputable, well formulated and repeatable scientific testing.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Tea tree oil is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people when put on the skin, but it can cause skin irritation and swelling. In people with acne, it can sometimes cause skin dryness, itching, stinging, burning, and redness.

Applying products to the skin that contain tea tree oil along with lavender oil might not be safe for young boys who have not yet reached puberty. These products might have hormone effects that could disrupt the normal hormones in a boy’s body. In some cases, this has resulted in boys developing abnormal breast growth called gynecomastia. The safety of these products when used by young girls is not known.

Tea tree oil is LIKELY UNSAFE when taken by mouth. Don’t take tea tree oil by mouth. As a general rule never take undiluted essential oils by mouth due to the possibility of serious side effects. Taking tree tea oil by mouth has caused confusion, inability to walk, unsteadiness, rash, and coma.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Tea tree oil is POSSIBLY SAFE when applied to the skin. However, it is LIKELY UNSAFE if taken by mouth. Ingestion of tea tree oil can be toxic.

 

[paul.ferris]

Tea tree oil is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people when put on the skin, but it can cause skin irritation and swelling. In people with acne, it can sometimes cause skin dryness, itching, stinging, burning, and redness.

Applying products to the skin that contain tea tree oil along with lavender oil might not be safe for young boys who have not yet reached puberty. These products might have hormone effects that could disrupt the normal hormones in a boy’s body. In some cases, this has resulted in boys developing abnormal breast growth called gynecomastia. The safety of these products when used by young girls is not known.

Tea tree oil is LIKELY UNSAFE when taken by mouth. Don’t take tea tree oil by mouth. As a general rule never take undiluted essential oils by mouth due to the possibility of serious side effects. Taking tree tea oil by mouth has caused confusion, inability to walk, unsteadiness, rash, and coma.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Tea tree oil is POSSIBLY SAFE when applied to the skin. However, it is LIKELY UNSAFE if taken by mouth. Ingestion of tea tree oil can be toxic.

This on Pyrethrin

Side Effects

Pyrethroids:
Inhalation: coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, runny or stuffy nose, chest pain, or difficulty breathing.

Skin contact: rash, itching, or blisters.

Long term effects: disrupts the endocrine system by mimicking the female hormone, estrogen, thus causing excessive estrogen levels in females. In human males, its estrogenizing (feminizing) effects include lowered sperm counts. In both, it can lead to the abnormal growth of breast tissue, leading to development of breasts in males and cancerous breast tissue in both male and females.

Neurotoxic effects include: tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.

Other: A known carcinogen. There is evidence that pyrethroids harm the thyroid gland.Causes chromosomal damage in hamsters and mice; deformities in amphibians; blood abnormalities in birds.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

One works for bed bugs, the other doesn't!

 

[paul.ferris]

Actually, the Canadian military uses permethrin treated clothing.

Permethrin is registered for use in Canada in over 230
products, including technical grade active ingredient and
formulated pesticides (PMRA 2004). Trade and other names
used for permethrin-based pesticides include, but are not
limited to, Ambush, Atroban, Dragnet, Ectiban, Evercide,
Permanone, Pounce, Pramex and Raid Fumigator. The
various permethrin-based pesticides registered in Canada are
used for a wide variety of purposes including: general
insecticide products for domestic use; flea and tick control
on household pets; insect control on agricultural crops,
orchards, nurseries and in greenhouses; biting insect control
in livestock (e.g., treated ear tags); as a perimeter application
for control of adult mosquitoes around buildings; application
to military clothing and mosquito netting; and others.
Permethrin is also registered for restricted use on
commercial woodlots (PMRA 2004).

Permethrin (also known as Pyrethrin) is not permitted for use on clothing, bedding, tents etc in Canada.
The fact that the the military uses it just adds to the long list of distain that our government seems to have for our military personnel.
Absolutely my last response to this thread - I promise.

 

[dougfitz]

Permethrin (also known as Pyrethrin)

No!! These are two different compounds. Pyrethrin is a plant extract, permethrin is a synthetic compound.

 

[paul.ferris]

No!! These are two different compounds. Pyrethrin is a plant extract, permethrin is a synthetic compound.

I stand corrected. Permethrin is a pyrethroid.

 

[Dutch]

Permethrin does NOT repel bedbugs. Actually, nothing does. It does kill 'm when they are i.e. in contact with fabric that is treated with permethrin, BUT only after 25-30 minutes of constant contact, so surely not instantly. Bedbugs will have plenty of time to have their breakfast-lunch and diner and waddle of again before being paralyzed and killed by the poison.

That being said, i do spray my sleepingbag, backpack ect with it and have never been bitten, while others around me have been bitten (many a times). Someone even five times on one camino and she did the whole good clean-up of all her stuff after every attack.

Most people i met did not use Permethrin. Most people did not get bitten. A small minority does. Go figure.

If a bedbug hitches a ride in your backpack or sleepingbag and it is sprayed with permethrin, the long lasting contact they will have with the treated fabrics will surely kill them before you arrive in the next albergue. If it protects you in your sleep? I dont think so, only because Permethrin does not scare the critters away.

 

[Dutch]

http://rt.com/news/218139-scientists-develop-bedbug-trap/

Something for every albergue next year....maybe

 

[Annie G]

This on Pyrethrin

Side Effects

Pyrethroids:
Inhalation: coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, runny or stuffy nose, chest pain, or difficulty breathing.

Skin contact: rash, itching, or blisters.

Long term effects: disrupts the endocrine system by mimicking the female hormone, estrogen, thus causing excessive estrogen levels in females. In human males, its estrogenizing (feminizing) effects include lowered sperm counts. In both, it can lead to the abnormal growth of breast tissue, leading to development of breasts in males and cancerous breast tissue in both male and females.

Neurotoxic effects include: tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.

Other: A known carcinogen. There is evidence that pyrethroids harm the thyroid gland.Causes chromosomal damage in hamsters and mice; deformities in amphibians; blood abnormalities in birds.

As an estrogen-starved female (age 67) this does not pose a threat to me. And I doubt I will live long enough to experience cancer from a relatively brief exposure to pyrethroids. BTW has anyone looked into the use of these chemicals by the hospitaleros? Surely it is already being used.

 

[Robo]

I've used this bed bug sheet , more of a net actually, and sprayed my sleeping bag with Permetherin prior to departure.
Sheet dimensions are 200 x 100cm and that worked fine on albergue mattresses.
Had no problems with bed bugs in April (although a few pilgrims were bitten) nor with any health related side-effects.
I seem to recall a lengthy debate on that issue but can't find that forum thread.

Sadly this is only shipped within the UK. Has anyone bought one elsewhere that would ship to Australia?

I'd make one, but my sewing skills are fairly ordinary

 

[dougfitz]

Permethrin does NOT repel bedbugs. Actually, nothing does.

Both DEET and some newly developed products appear to show good levels of repellency against bedbugs. See here for a summary report. The difficulty with DEET is that regular reapplication is required to maintain its effect, it has an unpleasant odour and is highly corrosive to certain plastics, something I have experience personally when a tube of DEET based repellent leaked in my backpack.

Permethrin is relatively ineffective as a repellent, and as Dutch says, its insecticide effect is not immediate so far as I can tell from my reading. You may get some protection yourself, but you are more likely to be helping break the chain of infestation, which is no bad thing in any case.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Sadly this is only shipped within the UK. Has anyone bought one elsewhere that would ship to Australia?

I'd make one, but my sewing skills are fairly ordinary

Have you tried Amazon.com? I have one of these and find it moves a lot during the night as there is no way to secure it and it is a bit plastiky. I think I will try to put elastics in the corners for my next walk.

 

[Kathy F.]

Happily, I walked in May 2013 and had no problems with bedbugs (in spite of the vigorous discussion on this forum).
Sadly, by mentioning my good fortune just now, I think I may have just jinxed myself for 2015.

 

[nathanael]

Hi,
I am thinking of bringing a permethrin sprayed fitted sheet on the camino to put over the mattresses in the albergue's. Has anyone tried this?? Does a regular fitted sheet from the u.s. fit a european twin mattress?? Maybe an extra long twin?? Is this a good or bad idea?? Thanks for the help. Jackie

jackie, hi so how would you spray the fitted sheet? or would you soak it..can you give me me some suggestions. thanks.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Someone (sorry I don't remember which helpful person) suggested making a sprayed "sheet" out of a lightweight bridal veil type of fabric that folds up very small and can be stored in a sandwich bag. That seems a lot lighter and easier than a fitted sheet.

That was me. I bought a sheer curtain at Goodwill for about $1.50 and hung it on the clothesline and sprayed it with permethrin. I carried it in a ziplock bag. I ended up not using it, but it laid flat on a twin bed and the idea was to put it down, then put my sleeping bag on top.

Here is that blog post:
http://caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/2012/05/four-more-sleeps-until-barcelona.html

 

[SuGardner]

We bought permethrin treated sheets for our 2013 Camino. No bedbug bites, but our friends without sheets didn't get bites either, so who knows.

I'm just wondering if those same sheets will still be "effective" for our 2015 Camino. They have probably been washed less than 6 times as we actually slept in our sleeping bags on top of the sheets.

Also, the sheets were not fitted and fit every bed on the Camino just fine. We just tucked them under the mattress.

 

[kusitb]

I sprayed it with permethrin from Canadian Tire.

Hi @C clearly - Can you please let me know the specific product you got from Canadian Tire? Is it this one?

http://reviews.canadiantire.ca/9045...ttery-powered-sprayer-3-l-reviews/reviews.htm

Part of the description says: "Wilson Home Pest Control Battery Powered Sprayer uses permethrin-based formula..."

Thanks in advance.

 

[C clearly]

I'm not sure which product I used, but it wasn't battery powered.

Personally, I've stopped pretreating and have gone to isolating my pack at night (big dry bag), isolating my sleeping bag and clothes (medium dry bag), and hoping for the best. I still get occasional bites, likely bedbugs, but I reduce the risk of carrying them.

 

[kusitb]

I'm not sure which product I used, but it wasn't battery powered.

Personally, I've stopped pretreating and have gone to isolating my pack at night (big dry bag), isolating my sleeping bag and clothes (medium dry bag), and hoping for the best. I still get occasional bites, likely bedbugs, but I reduce the risk of carrying them.

Hi @C clearly - thanks for the reply. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a dry bag? Something like this? http://www.mec.ca/product/5031-065/outdoor-research-durable-dry-sacks-unisex/?f=10+50617

Or, are you referring to any type of bag (maybe garbage bag?) that one can use to isolate their stuff?

 

[C clearly]

Yes, @kusitb, those are dry bags. MEC also carries a bigger "pack liner" which is good to putting your backpack in, without having to organize carefully at night. See this link.
http://www.mec.ca/product/5016-043/mec-pack-liner-unisex/?bc=

You can always use garbage bags instead.