- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2019
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Awesome!! Very interesting infoThis interesting map shows the Roman roads In Hispania:
As you can see the Camino Portugués follows Via XIX in Galicia that is indicated on the C. P. near some Miliarium (Roman milestones) that still remain.
Via de la Plata follows Via XXIV.
To remark is the Roman name for Santiago: Assegonia and the name for Porto: Cale
PortuCale was the origin of the name Portugal.
https://sashat.me/2018/11/21/roman-roads-of-iberia/
Thanks for sharing. Very good detail on this oneHere is a link to an ongoing multilayered Swedish Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire and routes throughout Europe which you might find of interest.
http://dare.ht.lu.se/
Margaret, you never cease to amaze. Such a fascinating link: it's possible to zoom in and get all sorts of inforamtion from the side panel. I'm fascinated by the density of iron-age castros in what is now Galicia - and with how it's possible to more or less trace the modern caminos. We walk very old roads, to be sure.Here is a link to an ongoing multilayered Swedish Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire and routes throughout Europe which you might find of interest.
http://dare.ht.lu.se/
Thanks so much for this map! This marker is near Mos, Galicia on the Portugués.This interesting map shows the Roman roads In Hispania:
As you can see the Camino Portugués follows Via XIX in Galicia that is indicated on the C. P. near some Miliarium (Roman milestones) that still remain.
Via de la Plata follows Via XXIV.
To remark is the Roman name for Santiago: Assegonia and the name for Porto: Cale
PortuCale was the origin of the name Portugal.
https://sashat.me/2018/11/21/roman-roads-of-iberia/
Real Roman Milestone on the Camino Portuguese. I am I out on Roman Numbering System:-} This was an original milestone that was badly eroded so none of the original details could be made out.Thanks so much for this map! This marker is near Mos, Galicia on the Portugués.
I recently found out that Cale could come from the Celtic language spoken there meaning Harbour, like Scottish Gaelic ´cala' and Irish 'caladh'.To remark is the Roman name for Santiago: Assegonia and the name for Porto: Cale
PortuCale was the origin of the name Portugal.
/
Then, the meaning of PortusCale = Portugal, would be Harbourharbour.
VN. You are correct. The Harvard map is not the same as the earlier DARE map which you cite above. Mea-culpaMargaret, you are (as ever) a source of treasure. Gracias peregrina!
My first visceral response was "Oh, wow, this is beautiful!"
But is this the same database? It seems much less detailed than the Swedish version.
Brilliant!if you tap the 3 bars on the top right, then tap The Map, and then Roman World you do see a wealth of info
I think is was more about efficiency - less material to build a road straight - less time to travel from place to place. Most of the Camino paths wander with the geography - you know you are on a Roman Road when they are straight as arrows.why the Romans insisted on straight roads
When you build a stone wall without mortar, you use large stones to stabilized the wall - I think it was more about preventing any shifting and enhancing the stability which could change with rain and frost heaving. Also long stones would have more surface area to keep them in place. There are only two things that hold a stone wall together - friction and gravity. Builders need to maximize these dynamic principles when building without mortar.I have always assumed the elongated pavers in the middle were for the horses with carts to keep from wandering off course. Correct?
I have always assumed the elongated pavers in the middle were for the horses with carts to keep from wandering off course. Correct?
I have always assumed the elongated pavers in the middle were for the horses with carts to keep from wandering off course. Correct?
Someone with real expertise please correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression from a fair amount of reading that most Roman roads don't have the elongated pavers.Builders need to maximize these dynamic principles when building without mortar.
I used to think for a long time that every straight road was Roman in origin but it is not true. Many of them were built under Napoleon. I know next to nothing about Spain in this context but it is true for a number of other European countries.you know you are on a Roman Road when they are straight as arrows.
The post (not mine) about the elongated pavers referred to the Summum Dorsum or top layer of a Roman road.And they most certainly were built with mortar, at least in some of the many layers of construction:
I used to think for a long time that every straight road was Roman in origin but it is not true. Many of them were built under Napoleon. I know next to nothing about Spain in this context but it is true for a number of other European countries.
Actually, the summum dorsum, was either made of gravel, called gloren stratata, or polygonal stone tiles, silicea stratata - not elongate stones.The post about the elongate pavers referred to the Summum Dorsum or top laye
Someone with real expertise please correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression from a fair amount of reading that most Roman roads don't have the elongated pavers.
There's evidence that some of the Roman roads in France and Spain were first made by Gauls/Celts.I used to think for a long time that every straight road was Roman in origin but it is not true. Many of them were built under Napoleon. I know next to nothing about Spain in this context but it is true for a number of other European countries.
Thanks. I appreciate all that information, and thank you for engaging the question, but it wasn’t really what I was seeking.The dirt roads and so on are still quite similar to the same or similar ones in the 12th to 15th Centuries or Roman times, but apart from those, everything is massively different, from the industrialisation and tarmacking etc between the 19th and 21st Centuries (though some changes started as early as the 16th Century, with the invention of public transport by coach and barge). AND from the fact that there are now roads through previously impassable terrain.
Having said that, some infrastructure elements existed in the Roman road system that were only replaced from 16th Century onwards (hostelry and re-supply points etc), so that apart from the Pilgrim Hospitals and so on, mediaeval pilgrims had fewer resources to rely on than both travellers in the Roman period and Pilgrims of the modern era.
Not to mention the wolves and brigands (in Roman times, even lions) and the difficulty sometimes to find drinking water. Rivers too were major obstacles, and could often only be crossed on rare bridges or ferry crossing points, for a tax -- else long detours upriver to find a ford, which was basically unfeasible for the major rivers unless you had a well-trained horse.
The average villager of course was not a Pilgrim or a traveller though, and outside of periods of drought and famine, all he needed would be found on his doorstep or at the nearest market or from an itinerant pedlar.
I’m not sure that there is a detailed answer to your question. I don’t recall that medieval pilgrims described the state of the road surface in their reports. It is difficult enough to figure out where exactly they walked. There were no roads singled out as “caminos” or “pilgrims” roads in the Middle Ages, at least not long-distance roads. Pilgrims used long-distance trade routes.I wonder if 1000 years ago more sections of the engineered stone roads were visible, obviously less eroded, or pretty much as they are now
It's actually quite interesting what's going on in this respect in the region between Roncesvalles and Pamplona. It's not mentioned in the Camino guidebooks and largely unknown to many because much of it is fairly recent: the archeological site of the Roman settlement of Iturissa (mentioned in the Antonine Itinerary) near Burguete (link) and a rediscovered and a re-established trail of a calzada Romana between Burguete / Espinal and Artzibar that can be walked for 26 km. As I understand it, this major Roman road was neither straight nor paved in this area (link).There have been archeological digs and studies in recent decades.
Not sure I was clear enough -- but Roman roads were dirt roads along most of their length, so that when I say that the current dirt roads are similar but the tarmacked sections are not, it was an answer.I wasn’t thinking of infrastructure or the imprints of culture etc, but of the “stones and bones” features of the actual road itself. Tarmac is one obvious change, but I wonder if 1000 years ago more sections of the engineered stone roads were visible, obviously less eroded, or pretty much as they are now?
Well, one does have to remember that some of those paved/flagged roads that persist are Mediaeval or Renaissance, rather than Roman.But when we encounter the stone roads that still sit at the surface, and we can see the cart ruts in the stones... well how much more shallow were they (if at all) 100 years ago? Were the stone sections significantly longer than they are now, or pretty much the same?
The Roman city was mostly south of the river, in the accidentally well-named Latin Quarter -- named because the mediaeval scholars, Doctors, and theologians spoke Latin, not for the Roman origins of the quartier around the Sorbonne.I think of the Roman foundations below the approach to Notre Dame Church in Paris, for example.
Thank you @islandwalker , this looks fantastic. It will not play for me, though, either because of my slow connection or because of something else. Is anyone else out there having trouble?This new video mentioned by @Raggy in another post is excellent for answering a lot of questions about Roman roads.
Hmm...that is a shame, because watching the entire series is like taking a course in Roman engineering. The narrator is enthusiastic and the topics are presented as mysteries to be solved. The visuals alone, especially the animated reenactments, are stunning.Thank you @islandwalker , this looks fantastic. It will not play for me, though, either because of my slow connection or because of something else. Is anyone else out there having trouble?
Yes, a pity because it looks like there are some fantastic videos, right up my alley. I have bookmarked the post, though, so that I can try another time (and/or place).because watching the entire series is like taking a course in Roman engineering. The narrator is enthusiastic and the topics are presented as mysteries to be solved. The visuals alone, especially the animated reenactments, are stunning.
Oh, @Faye Walker, I am so glad you like it. All three of us in our family are loving this series. We can hardly believe our eyes at some of the steps taken to produce these constructions. I thought I knew a lot about Roman roads and aqueducts, but wait til you see the real story behind those aqueducts. Just amazing to think of the precision they accomplished in terms of slope. And all the wells/airshafts/access shafts for the tunneled sections - wow!Watching now on my hotspot and it’s *amazing* — a hotel! That gives evidence to the amount of traffic on that particular road! *Swoon*
Thank you @islandwalker
@Albertagirl , what a great experience!My time at Diamondi and the walk down the Roman road to the river made that morning a high point on all my pilgrim walking.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?