Sick of Merino! Bamboo instead?

[Stephan the Painter]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

Comment Synopsis: after getting many comments below, it seems many people think bamboo dries much too slowly. There are also some questions about how badly the bamboo viscose manufacturing process pollutes.

There's a similar product to the viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel). But it's unclear to me whether this product is durable or dries fast.

Most people say they still prefer Merino. Several people mentioned that they think that the icebreaker brand makes especially fragile Merino garments.

I've decided that I can't trust Merino because of its fragility, and am going to use polyester infused with odor-resistant technology. My day-to-day base layer is polyester and costs less then $20 in the US. After wearing it for a week, while it did smell a little bit, it didn't seem that bad.

The brand I use is Russell. Other similar slightly more expensive polyester brands using odor-resistant technology are Under Armour in the US and Rohan in the UK.

 

[Tincatinker]

Hmm, Bamboo + recycled plastic milk bottles. Probably durable but in my experience sweaty and with poor wicking. I say probably durable but mine only lasted 3 outings. Did turn out to be excellent fire-lighters. Bamboo + cotton. All the advantages of bamboo (?) plus all the problems associated with cotton. Excellent moisture absorbency and retention Like hiking in wet swimming trunks.

If you feel that the brand you refer to isn’t up to the job try another. And meanwhile send your worn out underwear back to the manufacturer, preferably with some proof of purchase, and a query as to quality. WTF? probably won’t get you far but a request for a comment on the expected active life of an item of active wear might.

 

[trecile]

It seems that labeling clothing as made from bamboo is mostly marketing.

Modern clothing labeled as being made from bamboo is usually viscose rayon, a fiber made by dissolving the cellulose in the bamboo, and then extruding it to form fibres. This process removes the natural characteristics of bamboo fibre, rendering it identical to rayon from other cellulose sources.

Bamboo textile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And this from Patagonia on why they don't use bamboo.

https://www.patagonia.com/on/demandware.static/Sites-patagonia-us-Site/Library-Sites-PatagoniaShared/en_US/PDF-US/bamboo_rayon.pdf

 

[Anamiri]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

Bamboo is soft enough to be comfortable, but will be slow to dry, like cotton.
I like it as underwear in normal (non Camino) life, but it doesn't have the same properties for dealing with smell or insulation that merino has.

 

[ajpm2222]

Greetings Stephan,

Fellow Peregrino, Martin, recently made a highly relevant post that folks already invested a fair bit of candle power into developing. It mentions several options beyond Merino. I am pointing you there because I wouldn’t recommend bringing anything on a Camino made of bamboo based on current market offerings, except maybe a spork.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/any-suggestions-for-a-technical-shirt-with-the-performance-of-merino-but-without-the-drawbacks.84378/#post-1210220

Regarding the specific topic of bamboo performance clothing, all I know is that one should proceed with caution. I have no horse in this race, I’m just trying to share what I’ve learned...

If buying bamboo bed sheets, for example, it’s perfectly possible to find the “genuine article,” made with bamboo linen/fibers, produced sustainably, and imbued with all the intrinsic differentiators one would expect of natural bamboo fabric.

Because of the different and dynamic demands of performance clothing versus more static textiles, such as bedding, in the majority of cases the bamboo is processed as rayon/viscose or lyocell in athletic or outdoor wear. In the most extreme cases with bamboo rayon, bamboo is used as a source material, and there‘s no trace of the original plant in the final rayon product.

Additionally, to achieve the rigorous performance imperatives of athletic clothing, the bamboo fabric (whether or not it’s bamboo rayon, etc.) will be mixed with other fabrics, in many cases upwards of 40%.

The following link sheds a bit of insight as to why Patagonia does not use bamboo. https://www.patagonia.com/on/demand...PatagoniaShared/en_US/PDF-US/bamboo_rayon.pdf

Sadly, you’ll find that - at least historically - the bamboo fabric industry has been rife with greenwashing regarding its sustainability and environmental claims due to the overwhelming dominance of bamboo rayon, the processing of which is chemically intensive and has proven harmful environmental effects.

Worst case scenario, one will buy a bamboo shirt for its positive attributes and sustainability, and when they scrutinize it further, it just might be 57% bamboo rayon and 43% polyester. Hmmm, hardly any bamboo in that shirt and not much sustainability when you run the numbers on the rayon process…

My personal vote is to stick with a) something natural (cotton, merino, etc.), b) something overtly synthetic, or c) a hybrid. I try and avoid things that don’t “shoot a straight arrow,“ which seems to possibly be the case right now with the marketing and presentation of the performance side of bamboo fabric.

Of course, if/when there is a high performance brand out there using proven natural fiber bamboo fabric, let me know and that will be great! Cheers!

 

[ajpm2222]

It seems that labeling clothing as made from bamboo is mostly marketing.

Modern clothing labeled as being made from bamboo is usually viscose rayon, a fiber made by dissolving the cellulose in the bamboo, and then extruding it to form fibres. This process removes the natural characteristics of bamboo fibre, rendering it identical to rayon from other cellulose sources.

Bamboo textile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And this from Patagonia on why they don't use bamboo.

https://www.patagonia.com/on/demandware.static/Sites-patagonia-us-Site/Library-Sites-PatagoniaShared/en_US/PDF-US/bamboo_rayon.pdf

Nice post! Haha!

 

[J Willhaus]

Bamboo dries too slow for me even in a very dry climate like where I live.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Bamboo dries too slow for me even in a very dry climate like where I live.

Thanks for answering my question. Interestingly, they advertise it as a quick dry material, although those are usually bamboo/polyester blends.

I guess nobody else who saw this post has actually tried it.

 

[Tincatinker]

I guess nobody else who saw this post has actually tried it.

I guess you didn’t read my post. I’ve tried both possible combinations, and others. I will continue to use what works for me. A natural fibre garment. I have no faith in advertisers hype. My personal experience qualifies my choices. I’ve had long enough on this planet to both experiment and gain from the outcome.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

It seems that labeling clothing as made from bamboo is mostly marketing.

Interesting! I wasn't considering bamboo because I was looking for a sustainable material.

I thought about the bamboo because I wanted a more durable material that didn't hold odors. That said, it seems like bamboo viscose is a particularly egregiously polluting fabric to produce.

The Patagonia link was good because it started talking about Tencel, which seems like it might be a good material. It seems to be not particularly polluting to make and doesn't hold odors, so you don't have to wash it as frequently. But I don't know if it's durable. Will it last?

Greetings Stephan,

Fellow Peregrino, Martin, recently made a highly relevant post that folks already invested a fair bit of candle power into developing. It mentions several options beyond Merino. I am pointing you there because I wouldn’t recommend bringing anything on a Camino made of bamboo based on current market offerings, except maybe a spork.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/any-suggestions-for-a-technical-shirt-with-the-performance-of-merino-but-without-the-drawbacks.84378/#post-1210220

I read that post quite closely and didn't really get anything out of it. Except that most people liked Merino. Which I already knew.

A couple of people mentioned some poly blends, and one person mentioned Tencel, which sticks with me now. There were probably some other good choices in there, but when I clicked on them, they were as expensive as the Merino, and I'm no longer interested in spending that kind of money.

Anyway, you and @trecile and @J Willhaus I have disabused me of my bamboo clothing fantasies! Thank you.

Tangentially, I would make the argument that Merino is not a sustainable material. First off it's an animal product. Secondly, it's quite expensive. The expense tells me that it's resource or labor-intensive to produce. And thirdly, it lacks durability, so it has to be frequently replaced.

The icebreaker Merino base layers that I bought two years ago both have big holes ( and numerous small ones) in them. The second one happened this morning, which is what set me off. What I think is that I can not trust the clothing. Sure, I could sew it, but when is it going to fail next?

And so I'll probably just throw it out. And that's the exact opposite of sustainability, where the most sustainable thing you can do is reuse products.

I will explore the Tencel if I can find out positive things about its durability. Otherwise, I'll just go with some cheap polyester garments (as you suggested), that advertise moisture-wicking and low odor! And will last for 10 years. And end up being more sustainable because I don't have to replace them.

 

[Kiwi-family]

My husband’s oft-mended merino

 

[J Willhaus]

We didn't take Bamboo on the Camino, but each had t shirts and I had socks of bamboo fiber. Very slow air drying while camping and even in the dryer they held moisture while other things made of cotton, etc were already dry.

 

[J Willhaus]

Phil has some great Woolrich polos we bought 10+ years ago now. They are a merino wool polyester blend and are still nice enough to wear to church. He's taken them on the Camino so wore them every other day in Spain for a couple of months. You might look for something similar. I have never found these particular ones again, but surely something similar is out there.

 

[OZAJ]

The only bamboo I have worn is underpants. They are the most comfortable I have ever worn.

The make is Boody. 80% viscose, 13% nylon, 7% elastane. Made in China. I buy them from my local Health food store. They are expensive.

 

[Lindsay53]

Bamboo is soft, comfortable, retains water and takes forever to dry. Stick with merino

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Bamboo is soft, comfortable, retains water and takes forever to dry. Stick with merino

I definitely believe you, but it's interesting that these products are advertised as quick-drying.

I'll never buy Merino again. I don't have money to waste on material that is not durable and therefore not sustainable. And given its recent popularity, I wouldn't be surprised if there's brutal factory farming involved now.

I won't be purchasing bamboo, but I'll look for different materials, perhaps, just polyester and hope I don't stink on the trail!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Tangentially, I would make the argument that Merino is not a sustainable material. First off it's an animal product. Secondly, it's quite expensive. The expense tells me that it's resource or labor-intensive to produce. And thirdly, it lacks durability, so it has to be frequently replaced.

Noal Farm on YouTube has a ten minute video showing the production of wool fabric from shearing to finished fabric. The video is not allowed to be embedded by other websites so click the link below to see it presented by YouTube.

Watch "How to Harvesting Wool - Amazing Sheep Factory - Wool Processing Mill - Modern Sheep Shearing" on YouTube

YouTube video id: XASfFO3w2O8

 

[motero99]

In 2019 I started getting blisters on my feet after the first two weeks. By the time I got to Leon, I decided to try liner socks in addition to the wools socksI had been using. A small outdoor store recommended Bamboo socks (Bamboo was written across the toe area). They worked well. I used them for walking over the years and this year on the Portugues. I never noticed that they took long to dry as on the Camino they were dry by morning and at home they were dry along with my other clothes in the dryer. I missed them so much I asked my kids to get me bamboo socks for Christmas. They could not find the Bamboo brand, but I did get about 20 pairs of liner socks. I have not tried them yet, but hope they work as well as the original ones. I alternated my first pair with merino liners and did not notice any difference.

 

[ajpm2222]

Interesting! I wasn't considering bamboo because I was looking for a sustainable material.

I thought about the bamboo because I wanted a more durable material that didn't hold odors. That said, it seems like bamboo viscose is a particularly egregiously polluting fabric to produce.

The Patagonia link was good because it started talking about Tencel, which seems like it might be a good material. It seems to be not particularly polluting to make and doesn't hold odors, so you don't have to wash it as frequently. But I don't know if it's durable. Will it last?


I read that post quite closely and didn't really get anything out of it. Except that most people liked Merino. Which I already knew.

A couple of people mentioned some poly blends, and one person mentioned Tencel, which sticks with me now. There were probably some other good choices in there, but when I clicked on them, they were as expensive as the Merino, and I'm no longer interested in spending that kind of money.

Anyway, you and @trecile and @J Willhaus I have disabused me of my bamboo clothing fantasies! Thank you.

Tangentially, I would make the argument that Merino is not a sustainable material. First off it's an animal product. Secondly, it's quite expensive. The expense tells me that it's resource or labor-intensive to produce. And thirdly, it lacks durability, so it has to be frequently replaced.

The icebreaker Merino base layers that I bought two years ago both have big holes ( and numerous small ones) in them. The second one happened this morning, which is what set me off. What I think is that I can not trust the clothing. Sure, I could sew it, but when is it going to fail next?

And so I'll probably just throw it out. And that's the exact opposite of sustainability, where the most sustainable thing you can do is reuse products.

I will explore the Tencel if I can find out positive things about its durability. Otherwise, I'll just go with some cheap polyester garments (as you suggested), that advertise moisture-wicking and low odor! And will last for 10 years. And end up being more sustainable because I don't have to replace them.

Thanks, Stephan! I appreciate your glowing review and gratitude!

My good man, best of success in your outfitting journey. I’m sure you’ll end up with the kit you deserve! Cheers!

 

[Dougie]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

Because of the way bamboo is processed to enable it to be used as a wearable material which uses caustic soda, it produces environmentally unfriendly waste, also this process eliminates the naturally antibacterial benefits that are associated with bamboo which also makes it smell a lot quicker than Merino wool does, it also takes a lot longer to dry than merino and personally, for me it doesn't provide the same body temperature control that merino wool does.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

This thread has me researching the cellulose derived fabric lyocell (one brand name is Tencel). It can be produced using wood or bamboo. I've been finding that it is more environmentally friendly than other cellulose derived fabrics such as viscose rayon and that the harvesting of bamboo for these fabrics has ecological advantages. I'm still looking into this but lyocell is looking fairly good in my eyes so far. This webpage seems to have a good synopis of what I've discovered so far.

About Bamboo Lyocell | Sustainable T shirts | Eco Staples

Discover why Bamboo Lyocell is a superior ecofriendly material when compared to other fabrics in the market that are touted as sustainable.

www.ecostaples.co

 

[NamaMama]

We are very unhappy with the quality of Icebreaker (of late). I am looking at other brands with happy customers. Stick with merino, ditch Icebreaker.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Noal Farm on YouTube has a ten minute video showing the production of wool fabric from shearing to finished fabric. The video is not allowed to be embedded by other websites so click the link below to see it presented by YouTube.

Watch "How to Harvesting Wool - Amazing Sheep Factory - Wool Processing Mill - Modern Sheep Shearing" on YouTube

YouTube video id: XASfFO3w2O8

That's interesting. The sheep were probably a little freaked out about their forcible haircut! I think clothing made from regular sheep's wool is far more durable than merino wool. So it would be more sustainable since the cradle-to-grave process takes many years. I had a lovely pair of wool long underwear for over 20 years before it reached the end of its useful life.

I followed your link, and the Lyocell looks interesting to me as well. But several people say that bamboo takes a long time to dry, which would kind of eliminate it for hiking purposes anyway?

 

[Stephan the Painter]

We are very unhappy with the quality of Icebreaker (of late). I am looking at other brands with happy customers. Stick with merino, ditch Icebreaker.

That's interesting. So you think it might be just the brand I chose? Because it fell apart really fast for something that cost $100 each. I'll research that a bit if I can.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Phil has some great Woolrich polos we bought 10+ years ago now. They are a merino wool polyester blend and are still nice enough to wear to church.

Yes, I found Merino polyester blends. I was looking at some 50/50 t-shirts. And I would imagine they're more durable. But you're combining a material that's famous for its odor-retaining (polyester) with a material that's famous for its ability to not absorb odors (merino). How did it work if you wore it day after day?

 

[Hans-Georg Goebel]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

I have been using normal functional clothing for many years, both as underwear and for shirts and hiking trousers. Durable and quick-drying

 

[trecile]

There are quite a few Merino/Tencel blends. Not inexpensive though.

 

[DeaconJohnny]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

I also had bad luck with the wearing out holes in pure merino long sleeve shirts for hiking. I changed to a Smart wool shirt that lasted through the Camino's miles and daily washings. I got a second one for Christmas and I recommend them!

 

[NamaMama]

That's interesting. So you think it might be just the brand I chose? Because it fell apart really fast for something that cost $100 each. I'll research that a bit if I can.

My opinion is that the quality of their product has declined significantly. I have a pair of tights that developed numerous holes in both legs with very little wear. I hang them to dry. Obviously a defect in the material. They did not stand behind the product because I had purchased them greater than a year and did not have the receipt. i am following another thread on this site discussing merino vs technical. There are a number of different brands mention in that thread.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

There are quite a few Merino/Tencel blends. Not inexpensive though.

There also seem to be tencel/polyester blends which might be more affordable. I'm looking. I've been reading more about tencel, but it is unclear to me if it's a durable material? Blending with polyester makes any material stronger.

Of course, nothing is going to beat Merino for functionality. I noticed a difference this morning when I took a 3-mile walk wearing polyester undergarments. -7 centigrade or 20°F. The merino underlayer yesterday was warmer. And more comfortable.

 

[Jodean]

I wear long sleeve cotton blouses that dry really quickly. Lighter then t-shirts and the sleeves can be rolled up when it gets hot or you can leave them down instead of slathering sun screen on your arms. Go for some permanent press shirts and you always look good. They wash easily too. For me, t-shirts are over rated as Camino clothing. Loose sleeves, & long, loose pants, they all keep me cool when it is hot, but warm when it is cold.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Good point. We're having this long conversation about technical gear, as if we were going to tackle one of the Himalayas!

I always like myself in button shirts better than T-shirts anyway. And one looks a little dressier if the situation calls for it. I was going to bring one cotton-poly blend button shirt.

But I'll be in Spain from February through May, and even though at the beginning, I'll be in the south, I'll need base layers to stay warm. But point taken, simpler is better usually.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I have been using normal functional clothing for many years, both as underwear and for shirts and hiking trousers. Durable and quick-drying

I think that's the way I'm moving… Trying to buy something fancy is a lot of work and often disappointing.

 

[Jodean]

I do bring a long sleeve, turtle neck t-shirt to wear under my blouses if it should be really cold, which is was last spring every morning on the CF, but usually by 10, it came off.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

But I'll be in Spain February through May, and even though at the beginning, I'll be in the south, I'll need base layers to stay warm. But point taken, simpler is better usually.

For a base layer why not stick with straight merino if it isn't itchy? It will likely wear durably as it will not get the full abrasion from your pack straps. That's likely the main reason people here have been complaining about holes.

Edit: Oops, looking at the OP's original post it looks like he may disagree with me on the durability aspect.

I've been doing even more reading on Tencell/merino blends since my last post here and reviews suggest it as a good travel shirt in warm and dry areas. Here is one example; someone asked Reddit for advice on the blend and then produced this synopsis of the comments with what looks good for may camino walkers:

​

Thanks everyone for the valuable insights! Seems like an easy choice for people who travel a lot, not necessarily in the wilderness.​

​

1l Wrinkles fall out of it​

2) Can be worn again and again without getting stinky​

3) Can be worn comfortably in warm weather​

4) Looks a lot less slobby than workout clothes​

5) Not really intended to work as base layer for outdoor adventure, Stick w. silk, 100% wool or polypropylene for that​

6) If hand washed in a hotel sink, may not dry as quickly as hoped.​

​

Here's a link to the Reddit webpage:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/xcm1tc

 

[MARSKA]

Polypro and silk and wool. With nylon for durability.

 

[OZAJ]

I wear merino singlets and tees on Camino and have done for years. The first brand I tried was very light and comfortable and was in shreds before the end of my walk.

I now buy my merino from NZ Natural Clothing Co. The MKM Active Range. When I first bought them they were not advertised as merino and I didn't think they were because they were more robust than the ones that ended up in shreds. I checked with the company and they have confirmed that the Active Range is merino and not to be confused with the Shearer's Range which is not merino.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

For a base layer why not stick with straight merino if it isn't itchy? It will likely wear durably as it will not get the full abrasion from your pack straps. That's likely the main reason people here have been complaining about holes.

​

Here's a link to the Reddit webpage:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/xcm1tc

Good information. Thank you.
As you mentioned, I only wore it as a base layer and it’s still got holes. The little holes I could live with, but it actually tore larger (1 inch or 2 cm) holes when I was putting it on. Just from catching my hands or feet on the material. One person mentioned that the icebreaker brand might’ve been having quality control isues. But the damage has been done, I will not spend my hard earned treasure on a material that I don’t feel I can trust. I don’t want have to be sewing my base layers on the side of the trail.

Although I’m mulling over repairing my existing merino, but I’ll see.

It doesn’t sound like the tencel is good for a base layer either, judging from that Reddit thread. I feel much better educated now, but I think I’ll probably just go with common materials. After all, It’s been only been recently that merino wool became very popular, and we somehow managed before then!

 

[chinacat]

@Stephan the Painter

It’s possible to get Poly underwear with silver in it, to counteract the stinkies.
In the UK, Rohan makes these items.

Also in the UK, Alpkit makes extremely durable merino underwear which is a lot cheaper (and a better fit) than Icebreaker. I have underwear i purchased about 5 years ago from them and it’s still going strong. Having said that, a L/S top I bought recently is noticeably thinner than my old items but does not feel flimsy. They guarantee their clothing for 3 years from purchase. They also ship worldwide.

Or, have you thought of silk?
If you can get hold of vests and longjohns made in a silk jersey of medium weight, they would be durable, non-stinky and comfortable in diverse temperatures. (In my experience).

I like Tencel/lyocell for some clothing but once wore a loose tencel shirt for a hot mountain marathon. It was quickly soaked and took forever to dry

Conversely, I wore a very fine silk camisole under a loose shirt on camino. I washed it every evening and it dried in about an hour. (I washed it every day because it absorbed salts from perspiration.) It was also very comfortable next to my skin and I never had that clammy feeling that often comes with poly underwear.
I walked mid-September to October, when temperatures were between about 2C and 25C and I never felt cold.

Buen Camino!

Edit: Icebreaker is overpriced and easily damaged, imho.

 

[3ball]

I have had many icebreaker items over the years. The GT line was good, but their long sleeve tees weren't.

It does not seem to me that a long sleeve base layer should wear out or get stretched out easily.

The Smartwool stuff has definitely been better but is slightly more costly. I have had a few Merriwool items that seem to hit a bit of a sweet spot. You can buy tees of 190 thickness, they last pretty well, and are far less costly. I guess whether the savings is worth the decrease in durability depends on the planned use.

 

[VNwalking]

Anyway, you and @trecile and @J Willhaus I have disabused me of my bamboo clothing fantasies! Thank you.

News to me too. Good to know.

Stick with merino, ditch Icebreaker.

Icebreaker is overpriced and easily damaged, imho.

My limited experience too, with Icebreaker merino singlets. I have one now that I got at Uniqlo that's much more durable.

 

[trecile]

For those in the US near Costco, they have men's long sleeve merino wool T-shirts for only $20. The brand is Karbon, and I don't think that they are available online. The merino is really nice - softer and better quality than the women's Segments brand T-shirts that they often carry.

I bought my husband two a couple of years ago, and he wears them at least weekly in cool weather. We put them in the washer and dryer with no problems. I couldn't find them last year, but I bought two more for him for Christmas. I haven't noticed any holes in them.

 

[MikeyC]

Purely subjective but I always preferred my older Icebreaker tops.
As a matter of interest Icebreaker was sold in 2017 to VF Corp which also owns Smart Wool, Timberland and North Face.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Searching for the Karbon shirt mentioned by @trecile Google gave me this sponsored link

Wool&Prince | 130 Spread Collar Shirt - Regular

Instead of a button-down collar, we opted for a dressier look with the semi-spread collar. Wool is wrinkle- and odor-resistant while being 6x more durable.

woolandprince.com

It's expensive but might suit a colder weather camino. It could be good both for walking and sitting with a glass of wine in front of you. Plus, if you wear it 100 days straight you can get a free shirt. You are allowed to wash it but that's optional.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Polypro and silk and wool. With nylon for durability.

@Stephan the Painter

It’s possible to get Poly underwear with silver in it, to counteract the stinkies.
In the UK, Rohan makes these items.

Also in the UK, Alpkit makes extremely durable merino underwear which is a lot cheaper (and a better fit) than Icebreaker. I have underwear i purchased about 5 years ago from them and it’s still going strong. Having said that, a L/S top I bought recently is noticeably thinner than my old items but does not feel flimsy. They guarantee their clothing for 3 years from purchase. They also ship worldwide.

Or, have you thought of silk?
If you can get hold of vests and longjohns made in a silk jersey of medium weight, they would be durable, non-stinky and comfortable in diverse temperatures. (In my experience).

I like Tencel/lyocell for some clothing but once wore a loose tencel shirt for a hot mountain marathon. It was quickly soaked and took forever to dry

Conversely, I wore a very fine silk camisole under a loose shirt on camino. I washed it every evening and it dried in about an hour. (I washed it every day because it absorbed salts from perspiration.) It was also very comfortable next to my skin and I never had that clammy feeling that often comes with poly underwear.
I walked mid-September to October, when temperatures were between about 2C and 25C and I never felt cold.

Buen Camino!

Edit: Icebreaker is overpriced and easily damaged, imho.

Interesting information about the ROHAN brand with the silver in it. I looked at their website.
You can't purchase that brand in the US where I live, and I'm not willing to experiment with an overseas shipment, but I'll see if there's something similar here. The Under Armor brand seems to use a similar silver technology. Lots of poly underwear or base layers say low odor, but they never really talk about how they do it!

I had not thought about the thought of silk, I'll investigate that.Thanks.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Searching for the Karbon shirt mentioned by @trecile Google gave me this sponsored link

Wool&Prince | 130 Spread Collar Shirt - Regular

Instead of a button-down collar, we opted for a dressier look with the semi-spread collar. Wool is wrinkle- and odor-resistant while being 6x more durable.

woolandprince.com

It's expensive but might suit a colder weather camino. It could be good both for walking and sitting with a glass of wine in front of you. Plus, if you wear it 100 days straight you can get a free shirt. You are allowed to wash it but that's optional.

130gsm is really thin merino. I can't imagine those shirts last very long. You would need another one after 100 days.

 

[el-pe]

Had a bamboo shirt for other travel and did not like it. Merino blend socks are great. Merino shirts don't work for me and perform the same as synthetic, which is more durable and cheaper.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Comment Synopsis: After getting many comments above, it seems many people think bamboo dries much too slowly. There are also some questions about how badly the bamboo viscose manufacturing process pollutes.

There's a similar product to the viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel). But it's unclear to me whether this product is durable or dries fast.

Most people say they still prefer Merino. Several people mentioned that they think that the Icebreaker brand makes especially fragile Merino garments.

I've decided that I can't trust Merino because of its fragility, and am going to use polyester infused with odor-resistant technology. My day-to-day base layer is polyester and costs less then $20 in the US. After wearing it for a week, while it did smell a little bit, it didn't seem that bad.

The brand I use is Russell. Other similar more expensive polyester brands using odor-resistant technology are Under Armour in the US and Rohan in the UK.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

There's a similar product with a less polluting manufacturing process called Tencel that is made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants

Thanks for adding the synopsis to a long thread Stephan. I hope you can excuse me being pedantic here but I think this is what you mean to say:

There's a similar product to viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel)​

Too add some more detail here I'm putting in some text from Wikipedia's article on Lyocell (that I've edited to shorten).

"Lyocell" has become a genericized trademark, used to refer to the Lyocell process for making cellulose fibers. ...Trademarked names for Lyocell fibers are Tencel, Newcell, Seacell and Excel. There are other manufacturers which sell their product under the generic name Lyocell.​

Lyocell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I hope you can excuse me being pedantic here but I think this is what you mean to say:

There's a similar product to viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel)​

Much clearer. Thank you. I changed my comment with your language. Hopefully, someone in the future will find this thread useful.

 

[gml]

When merino tops (short- or long-sleeved) start to fall apart, I keep wearing them as base layers. There's no noticeable difference in their warming/insulating qualities, and the holes don't show when I'm wearing something over them. When these old friends eventually give up and fall off of me, they go into the compost — not the landfill — are decomposed into their elements, and become the building blocks of other forms of life. To me, that is durability!

 

[AK2112]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

Comment Synopsis: after getting many comments below, it seems many people think bamboo dries much too slowly. There are also some questions about how badly the bamboo viscose manufacturing process pollutes.

There's a similar product to the viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel). But it's unclear to me whether this product is durable or dries fast.

Most people say they still prefer Merino. Several people mentioned that they think that the icebreaker brand makes especially fragile Merino garments.

I've decided that I can't trust Merino because of its fragility, and am going to use polyester infused with odor-resistant technology. My day-to-day base layer is polyester and costs less then $20 in the US. After wearing it for a week, while it did smell a little bit, it didn't seem that bad.

The brand I use is Russell and it uses a fabric called Intelifresh. Other similar slightly more expensive polyester brands using odor resistant technology are Under Armour in the US and Rohan in the UK.

"odor-resistant technology. Intellifresh", what is even that?

You will regret this. Wool rules. I rest my face.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

When merino tops (short- or long-sleeved) start to fall apart, I keep wearing them as base layers. There's no noticeable difference in their warming/insulating qualities, and the holes don't show when I'm wearing something over them. When these old friends eventually give up and fall off of me, they go into the compost — not the landfill — are decomposed into their elements, and become the building blocks of other forms of life. To me, that is durability!

My Merino was mostly used as a base layer. And it wasn't only holes. It was tears that happened when I put them on. And I do still wear them, but I'm not willing to risk them when I go on a Camino, where equipment failure would be a big hassle.

And I hear what you're saying, but I think you have to look at cradle-to-grave with materials. If you have to replace an item more often, then you'll have to also count in the multiple environmental costs of the manufacturing and transportation involved in getting that item to you.

On the other hand, you don't have to wash Merino as often and that's an environmental savings. A difficult calculation.

And, of course, putting something biodegradable in a compost is better than a landfill, but I suspect most people don't do that. And they sit in the landfill jammed in there with everything else for at least the next 10,000 years....

Anyway, I don't dispute that Merino works the best for trekking purposes. But I decided that for me its disadvantages outweigh its advantages.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

"odor-resistant technology. Intellifresh", what is even that?

You will regret this. Wool rules. I rest my face.

Well, it's changing the fabric on a molecular level so that odor creating bacteria can't bond to it. Intellfresh, is just a brand-name, you're right it's unnecessary. I'll remove it from my comment.

Certainly, merino works better than any other material for our purposes. I don't dispute that.

I live in a cold place , and I already know this material works reasonably well and is odor resistant. My decision is based on durability.

And I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure my choices are not going to affect anybody else at all.

 

[AK2112]

Well, it's changing the fabric on a molecular level so that odor creating bacteria can't bond to it. Intellfresh, is just a brand-name, you're right it's unnecessary. I'll remove it from my comment.

Certainly, merino works better than any other material for our purposes. I don't dispute that.

I live in a cold place , and I already know this material works reasonably well and is odor resistant. My decision is based on durability.

And I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure my choices are not going to affect anybody else at all.

I am sceptic. I worked in the textile industry for more than 20 years. But I have been wrong before.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

As Stephan said Intellifresh is a trademark (or maybe a brandname). Search for that and you essentially get just marketing hype. I did find though that it uses "SILVADUR technology" by DuPont. Although that is a trademark, searches for it brings up more information. It incorporates silver into the fabric. I've read before about how silver ions are antimicrobial. One possible application I've heard about is siver plating door handles and door push plates in public places to slow infection rates. This may actually work in fabrics used for clothing.

Here's a webpage that gets into some detail:

â· Biocides for the Textile Industry | LANXESS

LANXESS offers a range of microbial control solutions that are highly effective.

lanxess.com

 

[Stephan the Painter]

As Stephan said Intellifresh is a trademark (or maybe a brandname). Search for that and you essentially get just marketing hype. I did find though that it uses "SILVADUR technology" by DuPont. Although that is a trademark, searches for it brings up more information. It incorporates silver into the fabric. I've read before about how silver ions are antimicrobial. One possible application I've heard about is siver plating door handles and door push plates in public places to slow infection rates. This may actually work in fabrics used for clothing.

Here's a webpage that gets into some detail:

â· Biocides for the Textile Industry | LANXESS

LANXESS offers a range of microbial control solutions that are highly effective.

lanxess.com

Thanks for doing the research, Rick. Actually, there’s a little sentence in there that deflates my whole argument. It says that Silvadur fabric treatment ”can withstand repeated home laundering of up to 50 wash cycles in high temperatures. “
Which means it goes away eventually. I tend to wash my clothes in cold water, so probably it lasts longer. But I had assumed that it was actually the fabric instead of a coating.

So a few more points in the pro-merino column.

I keep on hoping that the “Darn Tough“ sock company will start making merino under layers. That’s when I’ll buy some new ones! And if you’re not familiar with Darn Tough, it’s a company that makes blended socks with merino, nylon and lycra in it, that they guarantee forever. They’re expensive, but it’s mostly what I use everyday. They have the anti-odor properties and mine never seem to smell even after 3-4 days of continous use. I’ve had one pair for about five years and still has no holes or significant wear. Now that’s sustainable durability!

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I am sceptic. I worked in the textile industry for more than 20 years. But I have been wrong before.

Well, I was wrong that it was the fabric. Apparently it’s just a coating that is applied.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I tend to wash my clothes in cold water, so probably it lasts longer.

If you are buying the shirt for walking caminos you would likely be doing a hand wash in addition to using cooler water. I think you could get a lot more wear out of it. Watch for fellow petegrinos' reaction to you asking if you can join them at their table.

But I had assumed that it was actually the fabric instead of a coating.

I didn't see anything on this but possibly it might work as an infusion. Research for this thread brought up a new fact for me; wool is hydrophobic on the outside but hydrophilic on the inside (this may explain its wicking moisture away from your skin but feeling comfortable when wet, the water is contained inside the fabric). A silver solution appled to wool at pressure could coat the fibers but also get inside. Maybe crazy for wool with its similar properties (and you don't care to wear merino anyway) but this might possibly work for some other fabric.

And if you’re not familiar with Darn Tough, it’s a company that makes blended socks with at least some merino wool in it, that they guarantee forever.

I bought three pairs of these, different types, for my last camino. They are tough but I do have one big heel hole. It doesn't bother me so I haven't gone to the trouble of using their guarantee. I prefer SmartWool but the ones I have are older (I've read the quality has declined). Mostly I wear the cheap wool socks that I can't prevent Peg from buying as presents. Really I may just have the luck of having feet that can be tortured without torturing me back.

 

[NolaVulling]

After becoming fed up with the durability issues of my Icebreaker Merino under-layers, I was looking at bamboo/poly or bamboo/cotton blends.

Wondering if anybody has used this material and can comment on odor control, drying times, durability, or anything else you have to say.

I was looking at both short and long-sleeved T-shirts. And if I can find some, under-layer bottoms.

Comment Synopsis: after getting many comments below, it seems many people think bamboo dries much too slowly. There are also some questions about how badly the bamboo viscose manufacturing process pollutes.

There's a similar product to the viscose rayon, also made from bamboo or other woody cellulose plants, with a less polluting manufacturing process called, generically, Lyocell (a common brand name is Tencel). But it's unclear to me whether this product is durable or dries fast.

Most people say they still prefer Merino. Several people mentioned that they think that the icebreaker brand makes especially fragile Merino garments.

I've decided that I can't trust Merino because of its fragility, and am going to use polyester infused with odor-resistant technology. My day-to-day base layer is polyester and costs less then $20 in the US. After wearing it for a week, while it did smell a little bit, it didn't seem that bad.

The brand I use is Russell. Other similar slightly more expensive polyester brands using odor-resistant technology are Under Armour in the US and Rohan in the UK.

The Aldi supermarket chain make very serviceable and tough wearing Merino at a reasonable price. Personally Merino is the go for me on all my caminos.