Special Compostela for pilgrims walking longer distances?

[Bradypus]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

 

[C clearly]

pilgrims who walk longer distances

Longer than what? Here's a novel idea... give them a compostela and also a distance certificate that has a bigger number on it.

 

[Bradypus]

Longer than what? Here's a novel idea... give them a compostela and also a distance certificate that has a bigger number on it.

A radical proposal - maybe you should pass it on!

 

[Tincatinker]

Introduce a €10 fee for starting in Sarria - then everyone will start in Samos

 

[henrythedog]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

Perhaps look at it from the other end of the telescope? Avoid congestion on the last 100km by issuing a Compostela to anyone who arrives at the cathedral from no further than the nearest bus-stop.

 

[Bradypus]

Perhaps look at it from the other end of the telescope? Avoid congestion on the last 100km by issuing a Compostela to anyone who arrives at the cathedral from no further than the nearest bus-stop.

Not so very long since that was possible - no minimum distance at the time of my first Camino.

Edit: The pilgrim office statistics page has data back to 2003. About 10 years after the introduction of the 100km rule. In 2003 about 10,000 walked from Sarria but they were still being outnumbered by those who had walked from SJPDP and Roncesvalles which combined made up over 15,000. By last year those proportions were massively changed: 132,000+ walking from Sarria but only 33,564 from SJPDP and Roncesvalles. Why would the 100km rule have such a huge effect now but not 20 years ago? A puzzle.

 

[NorthernLight]

If the purpose of the Compostela is to encourage walking tourism in Spain, then issue the darn thing at the points where the feeder trails join the Frances and call it a day.

Otherwise, what C clearly said.

 

[David Tallan]

Not so very long since that was possible - no minimum distance at the time of my first Camino.

Edit: The pilgrim office statistics page has data back to 2003. About 10 years after the introduction of the 100km rule. In 2003 about 10,000 walked from Sarria but they were still being outnumbered by those who had walked from SJPDP and Roncesvalles which combined made up over 15,000. By last year those proportions were massively changed: 132,000+ walking from Sarria but only 33,564 from SJPDP and Roncesvalles. Why would the 100km rule have such a huge effect now but not 20 years ago? A puzzle.

I can think of a few possibilities. One is that, while the "100 km gets you a Compostela" has been in effect since 1993 , it took a while for it to be prominently featured in the materials promoting the Camino, so people tended to start where they heard that the Camino started.

Another might be to look at the demographics of the people who walk from Sarria. If they are mostly groups of Spanish youngsters, perhaps there weren't nearly so many organized trips of Spanish youth 20 years ago.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Longer than what? Here's a novel idea... give them a compostela and also a distance certificate that has a bigger number on it.

*so good!* Why hasn't anyone thought of that?? ; 7 )

 

[Bradypus]

Another might be to look at the demographics of the people who walk from Sarria. If they are mostly groups of Spanish youngsters, perhaps there weren't nearly so many organized trips of Spanish youth 20 years ago.

A good point. I wonder what the ratio of groups to solo walkers actually is? The pilgrim office processes group applications for Compostelas separately so someone must have at least an anecdotal sense of the comparison. Maybe @t2andreo can comment on that?

 

[Derek Booth]

The 'Good Pilgrim' Guide for the Frances, says that Pamplona to SdC is 700Kms.

When I got to the Office in SdC I was asked how many days I had been on the Way.
29 days I replied truthfully. My Cerfiticate (sic) says I walked 729Kms.

I reckon they added a Km a day to account for the visit to the nearest Bar on each evening.

 

[t2andreo]

Regarding the ratio of solo walkers to groups, the issue is squishy like gelatin. What is a group?

For processing reasons and flow control, the number of people considered a group can range from 10 or more, to 3 or 4. So, any statistics trying to sort this out need to be qualified.

The only number they might have is the aggregate number of Compostelas issued by the group office, as a function, or percentage, of the overall daily total Compostelas issued.

If I were to venture an experienced guess, I would suggest that about 20%- 25% of the daily total comes from the group office. However, this ratio shrinks during slower times of the year.

There are always more groups - manny in excess of 100 pilgrims - during the peak summer months. This is from mid-June through mid-September (ish).

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Marie Helene Maguire]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

Good idea!

 

[NorthernLight]

So after DeepL translated the article for me… I comprehend that this was a meeting of the municipalities to discuss ways to promote the camino, as a way to support their small struggling communities upstream along the way, far before Sarria. Okay, I understand their perspective … they have a vested interest in the longer walkers as we spend money in their communities.

Perhaps they could issue their own ‘starting’ certificates? Negotiate with the Cathedral to recognize their own Credentials unique to their province? Then only ‘sell’ them in their province.

And why not issue some sort of certificate (not a compostela) at the end of the feeder trails? Like Sahagun does a half-way and Finisterre and Muxia issue their own? The Tourist Office in the closest town could be in charge of that.


——
An interesting quote from the meeting:

“After noting that last year were 438,500 pilgrims who sealed the compostela, Diego Calvo advocated taking care of the Camino because it achieves something reserved for very few destinations: those who try it want to repeat.”

 

[Richard-Huvo]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

I don’t know how far you want to go to make the Caminos a business attraction. A Camino is very personal it has nothing to do with a special certificate. That’s a reason why Frances is becoming so bsy and maybe less attractive

 

[Scott Fraser]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

It's easy to understand the economics of the idea, but I wonder what Jesus would think

 

[LTfit]

Just give a Compostela to anyone who wants one, no matter the distance. Discussion done

 

[henrythedog]

Why would the 100km rule have such a huge effect now but not 20 years ago? A puzzle.

I think it basically created something which suddenly felt achievable to many more; which in itself isn’t a bad thing.

I do try to avoid the crowds by walking on the CF only at quiet times of year; but in anyone else’s eyes I suppose I’m one of the crowd.

 

[Matchu]

Longer than what? Here's a novel idea... give them a compostela and also a distance certificate that has a bigger number on it.

I walked a day or so out of Saville (Via de la Plata) with a young Spanish man, a couple of years ago. We talked about the 100km rush and he said that in Spain it is easier to get a job if you have a Compsotella. I asked why he was walking from Seville, his answer was that he was happy with his job as a street sweeper; no responsibility and no unannounced overtime. A very wise young man!

 

[Nocheechako]

So many are looking for the minimum path to achieve their Compostela. You see in many boards, "Where can I start to get my 100KM?" Their desire is the Compostela. The Compostela is rooted in the traditions of my Catholic brothers and sisters. Those of the faith following the path of St James. There is a simple solution. Why should the Compostela be granted to anyone outside the Catholic Faith? (I am not Catholic and have 3) Anyone can state they walked for "spiritual" or "religious" reasons. My first Camino was dedicated to exactly that pursuit, and my time with God was supernatural. Someone seeking a Copestella should be required to have a letter of support from their sending church or a credential issued by their church. This would return the pilgrimage to our Catholic Brothers and Sisters (of which I am not) and remove the race to the minimum of miles. Other walkers could receive a certificate celebrating their accomplishment of KM walked and those of the Catholic faith would receive their well-deserved Compostela.

 

[C clearly]

There is a simple solution.

To what problem?

 

[Robertb345]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

If you are trying to encourage peoples behavior and want to change it then you need a motivation. As a reward, a special compostela might not have enough impact. As many threads on the forum have shown, lot of people and repeat walkers don't claim the ones already available.

I comprehend that this was a meeting of the municipalities to discuss ways to promote the camino, as a way to support their small struggling communities upstream along the way, far before Sarria. Okay, I understand their perspective … they have a vested interest in the longer walkers as we spend money in their communities.

I would agree with NortherLIght's statement that the driver is also focused on maximizing expenditures and distribution of that further up stream (versus focused on the city's in the last 100 kilometers).

Since it is municipalities and not the church, products and services are their usual offerings of things of value.
I don't have a quick solutions but things like frequent walker miles, or credits you could exchange for goods and services are typical of what get offered. Lots of issues with even something like this since you need ways to measure actual walked miles or expenditures (versus ground covered via buses and trains). It also doesn't help with the obstacles most people would have to spending more time on the longer hikes (like limited time available). You would have to incentivize further up stream if that is a real target of the scheme (double points or triple points between city X&Y). Lots of challenges, but marketers seem to love these kind of solutions.

Personally I think I would opt out. But I can see why they might like some scheme to address the issue.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Longer than what? Here's a novel idea... give them a compostela and also a distance certificate that has a bigger number on it.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Robertb345]

Just another wild thought. Work with the church to give a compostela if you walk in reverse. Start in SDC and hand it out in SJPDP (or other end points). Pushes the traffic the other way. As long as SDC is a key requirement, the heavy traffic is at that end.

 

[JMac TO]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

Cool I’d like to see a few perks like a shorter lineup to get your Compostela maybe priority access to the cathedral or something like that.

 

[grayland]

Issue different color Compostela based on distance walked.
Gold from St. Jean distance or more
Silver a little down stream
....and so on until a plain white paper Compostela from 100K

 

[Trevor Ockenden]

If 100km is what's important then proof of at least 100km on any Camino should suffice.
I have done 3 Camino if this applied.

I doubt getting a Compostella makes much difference to where people walk except for mainly Spanish youth.

As overcrowding on the Francis becomes more of an issue, better information on other caminos may help spread the load and pilgrim dollars.

Easy transport to avoid hard or boring bits means some sections are more popular than others. More emphasis on the PILGRIM and less on the TOURIST nature of the caminos may help. Proof of consecutive nights in appropriate accommodation etc.

Maybe a B+W Compostella for the tourist and a colour Compostella for pilgrims. Or should it be the other way around?

Yet again, caminos are a victim of their own success.

 

[mattythedog]

Introduce a €10 fee for starting in Sarria - then everyone will start in Samos

Make it 1000

 

[Sidknee]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

@Bradypus a much debated topic over the years.

I'm wondering how the infrastructure would work/support an extension of the distance to be walked to obtain a compostela? What would happen to Sarria? The accommodation resources may change materially and impaction the local economy would most likely be impacted. Would Galicia, big investors in the Camino infrastructure, willingly want to impact their investment? Would Castile and León be prepared to invest?

Am thinking that any extension to the minimum start point would no doubt need to be on a rail line to enable easy access. In addition to the questions around the local commercial activities, there would also need to be consideration for distance capabilities for a range of walkers (including the school children) who have limited time.

Would a special certificate (the colour or a number on it) matter? I'm not convinced. For a small group of people it may be a motivator. For the majority I doubt it (noting not everyone bothers collecting a compostela). Most get their compostela(s) and dutiflly take them home and place them in draws or in cupboards never to see the light of day again...

There are already so many different compostelas you can get along the way, do we need another? University Camino Compostela; Half-way Compostela, Fisterra Compostela, etc.... Maybe we should have compostelas for "I carried my back pack all the way" or "I only stayed in municipal or religious albergues" or "My Compostela is digital because I'm saving the planet, but I flew half way around the world to get here"... Might be time to pare them back (only one compostela accreditation).

Extending the minimum distance to qualify for a compostela is probably the only way to really change peoples motivation to start at a different point. That comes with significant consequences to local communities (both positive and negative).

There are some clever marketing people out there who may be able to come up with a solution...might be a challenge for Gruen (Australian reference).

 

[Bogong]

I don’t know how far you want to go to make the Caminos a business attraction. A Camino is very personal it has nothing to do with a special certificate. That’s a reason why Frances is becoming so bsy and maybe less attractive

As I understand it, the Camino had its roots in a personal Christian pilgrimage to the traditional resting place of St James the greater in the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela. For many it remains this. However, the world has changed, for better or worse. The idea of a certificate rewarding distance covered is quite a step away from the concept of a basic performance recognition and to me would be another step in the increasing secularisation of the concept of pilgrimage. It’s completely at odds with gospel teaching. See Matthew Ch 20 vv 1 to 16.

De colores

Bogong

 

[mattythedog]

I don’t know how far you want to go to make the Caminos a business attraction. A Camino is very personal it has nothing to do with a special certificate. That’s a reason why Frances is becoming so bsy and maybe less attractive

Nothing to do with special certificate? Tell that to the taxigrinos who get pp stamped, taxi to next town after Sarria, eat lunch, get stamp, walk through town to taxi waiting at the edge, repeat for dinner, etc.

 

[Kathar1na]

I walked a day or so out of Saville (Via de la Plata) with a young Spanish man, a couple of years ago. We talked about the 100km rush and he said that in Spain it is easier to get a job if you have a Compsotella. I asked why he was walking from Seville, his answer was that he was happy with his job as a street sweeper; no responsibility and no unannounced overtime. A very wise young man!

So he actually had no first hand knowledge about whether his statement was true or not on the Spanish labour market.

We had discussions about this before and a number of Spanish forum members said that is was not accurate. I tend to believe it to be true when I hear Spanish employers say that, yes, they are always mightily impressed when they read in a CV that a job seeker had once spent 5 days walking 20 km each day …

 

[Hiking Joe]

Well they do a show about the camino in South Korea, and surely it works to support the local economy here in Spain.

Pointless discussion I think. If nobody still walks the camino, it will stop to exist.
And to a unfit person, with health issues saying you need 200km now vs a young trained athlete doing a 100km.

What value has this document beyond the value it has for the individual.

Never heard the story you need have a compostela to find a job, that was new to me.

Is the circus in the last 100km getting bigger, yes true, and so what ....

I share your nostalgia, but I personally am happy pelgims with the pest are less common now too ;-)

 

[Leaderene]

I remember thinking that it was a shame that having walked from Le Puy in Velay in France, I got exactly the same Compostella as someone who had walked only from Sarria. I am not saying that they shouldn't have one but I think it would be good for those who had walked further to get a different one. However, that brings up it's own issues as people who walked different distances may want different things.
I lead groups as well as walking my own Caminos and we have had the discussion around what is more important, the journey and the stamps (sellos) along the way that tell a story or the Campostella?

 

[trecile]

I remember thinking that it was a shame that having walked from Le Puy in Velay in France, I got exactly the same Compostella as someone who had walked only from Sarria.

You received the same piece of paper at the end, but look at your credential with all of its stamps and your memories. Would you rather have walked "just" 100 km for that piece of paper?

 

[Leaderene]

You received the same piece of paper at the end, but look at your credential with all of its stamps and your memories. Would you rather have walked "just" 100 km for that piece of paper?

Of course not and that is why the question whether it is the sell is and the stories that are more important than the Compostella. I often lead on sections that don’t end in Santiago and people enjoy the experience just as much.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I remember thinking that it was a shame that having walked from Le Puy in Velay in France, I got exactly the same Compostella as someone who had walked only from Sarria. I am not saying that they shouldn't have one but I think it would be good for those who had walked further to get a different one.

I think if I had walked all the way from Le Puy to Santiago, I would have wanted to purchase the Distance Certificate. That was an amazing acomplishment! How many weeks or months did it take you?

 

[grayland]

I think if I had walked all the way from Le Puy to Santiago, I would have wanted to purchase the Distance Certificate. That was an amazing acomplishment! How many weeks or months did it take you?

I walked from Le Puy to Santiago
This distance was about 800km for each leg (Le Puy-SJPP SJPP-Santiago)...so about 1600 km.
I don't recall the actual number of days, but i think it was around 60 days plus.

The VdlP was about 1000 km and I think it was about 50 days so the 1600 km on the Le Puy route must have been longer.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I walked from Le Puy to Santiago
This distance was about 800km for each leg (Le Puy-SJPP SJPP-Santiago)...so about 1600 km.
I don't recall the actual number of days, but i think it was around 60 days plus.

The VdlP was about 1000 km and I think it was about 50 days so the 1600 km on the Le Puy route must have been longer.

@grayland, my hat's off to you. What an awesome accomplishment! Do you know if distance certificates were available when you walked. I'd never heard of them until 2017.

 

[NorthernLight]

I am slow. I think my Le Puy to Santiago was about 85 walking days, done over three stages (interrupted due to injury).

A few days I did only 5 or 8 km. My longest day was 37km. My average was about 18.

I feel no more entitled to a special certificate for that distance than I did for my Somport-SDC camino, or the shorter one. I have never requested a distance certificate. I know what I did, and don’t need the paper. Mind you, I feel the same about my University degrees … they are in a drawer somewhere. My sister collects the distance certificates, those mean more to her than the Compostela. And it harm none, to each their own.

I do like the idea of having a credential that reflects the starting point. My Le Puy camino has a French credential, which made me feel special once in Spain. Such special credentials might pull people onto the lesser travelled routes.

 

[grayland]

@grayland, my hat's off to you. What an awesome accomplishment! Do you know if distance certificates were available when you walked. I'd never heard of them until 2017.

I have never asked for a distance certificate on any route. The ones I have seen actually do not reflect the actual distance on most. I usually keep track with a GPS app so do have a pretty good idea of the distance walked.

I don't think the certs were offered before about 2017 as you posted.

 

[JabbaPapa]

As a method for getting people to walk for longer than from Sarria or Tui, I think it's a non-starter.

And I really can't see the Archdiocese going along with it ... The outgoing Archbishop stated, for instance, in a new interview that : "Son consciente de que se o Camiño de Santiago perdese esa dimensión espiritual, banalizaríase."

It's still primarily a religious document, not a hiking certification. And if you live inside of a 100K radius from the Cathedral and walk there from home for the eligible reasons, you are still entitled to a Compostela.

 

[Frankybaby66]

There has been a meeting this week of representatives of municipalities along the Caminos. One of the topics under discussion has been ways of encouraging more pilgrims to walk longer distance journeys on the Camino Frances. One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

El Camino Francés se marca como reto el peregrino de largo recorrido

La asociación nacional de municipios destaca en Triacastela el papel de los pueblos pequeños

www.elprogreso.es

The fact that the meeting involved Municipalities along the way points to economic motives. Camino is an important income stream for some locations but
I think it would increase the 'one-upmanship' that is sometimes present in Pilgrims arriving in Santiago.
Bad idea (IMO)

 

[Leaderene]

I think if I had walked all the way from Le Puy to Santiago, I would have wanted to purchase the Distance Certificate. That was an amazing acomplishment! How many weeks or months did it take you?

I did it over a number of years a week at a time as I my daughter was too young for me to ngo off for the whole time. It was lovely being able to savour each section at a time and then get excited about going back and picking up again.

 

[Tigger]

Sounds like a frequent flyer type thing. Everyone can get the Compostela. There needs to be other incentives like earning miles for admission tickets, a rail pass, free nights at the Parador, free breakfast somewhere nice, exclusive (clothing or hiking) items one can only get by redeeming points... you get the idea.

One could earn miles (points) for hiking. Longer distance = more miles (points). There may be other ways to earn points too.... Volunteers could be awarded special points on occasion. Points could vary depending on mode of travel (hike, bike, horse, minus what was skipped by taxi and train because it was not interesting and thus they have no stamps), carrying pack, difficulty of route, etc.

This would not be difficult to set up as all the routes are defined with towns and GPS. Assign miles/points for each section based on the challenge. There could be multiple point validation (claim) locations so everyone does not need to end in Santiago if they do not want a Compostela. Create a user database for accounts (also great for marketing) and have an official stamp to validate (cancel) the passport where points are entered into the user account.

There could be an online redemption site as well as one or more brick and mortar locals like Santiago pilgrim office.

 

[Bradypus]

Sounds like a frequent flyer type thing.

A positively Swiftian suggestion!

 

[Tigger]

A positively Swiftian suggestion!

Hum, I don't know how to take that. I would like to be more optimistic about another special Compostela, but I think the other contributors have summed that up rather well.

The goal seems to be increasing traffic in other areas... one option could be claiming a special Compostela... although I expect more folks will opt for the breakfast, or a shirt advertising the Camino. It would seem the position of the Catholic Church would be to encourage pilgrimage for religious reasons. One must get people there in the first place and then hope the people who may not have began for religious reasons may perhaps find some along their journey.

 

[Kathar1na]

The goal seems to be increasing traffic in other areas

One of the aims, at least as expressed in the article, is to increase the number of long-distance pilgrims on the Camino Francés. The forum members as a whole don’t reflect the fact that the long-distance peregrin@ on the CF is in the clear minority. It is not only Sarria to SdC, it is also apparent elsewhere.

I once listened to a video of the customary dinner introduction at the Orisson gîte and was surprised how many of the 30 or so participants on that night had no intention to walk until Santiago this time - it was not the majority but a significant number. Spanish and European pilgrims often walk only one or two weeks at a time, Spanish pilgrims may be walking only on weekends. I know several people personally who walked only from SJPP to Pamplona, or to Puente la Reina or to Logroño and then stopped as planned; some returned later to continue, others may take it up again one day …

Short Camino walks of one or two weeks are attractive - I doubt that extra certificates or bonus points will make a major difference as a marketing tool or an incentive to walk longer distances. Besides, for whom here was the Compostela a major incentive to go on Camino? I didn’t even know that it existed when I started walking to Santiago.

 

[mattythedog]

Well they do a show about the camino in South Korea, and surely it works to support the local economy here in Spain.

Pointless discussion I think. If nobody still walks the camino, it will stop to exist.
And to a unfit person, with health issues saying you need 200km now vs a young trained athlete doing a 100km.

What value has this document beyond the value it has for the individual.

Never heard the story you need have a compostela to find a job, that was new to me.

Is the circus in the last 100km getting bigger, yes true, and so what ....

I share your nostalgia, but I personally am happy pelgims with the pest are less common now too ;-)

There is no story you NEED a compostela to find a job. Having a compostela helps to get a job in Spain. This was confirmed by several Spanish professionals in 40ish age group I have asked on various occasions.

 

[oursonpolaire]

So many are looking for the minimum path to achieve their Compostela. You see in many boards, "Where can I start to get my 100KM?" Their desire is the Compostela. The Compostela is rooted in the traditions of my Catholic brothers and sisters. Those of the faith following the path of St James. There is a simple solution. Why should the Compostela be granted to anyone outside the Catholic Faith? (I am not Catholic and have 3) Anyone can state they walked for "spiritual" or "religious" reasons. My first Camino was dedicated to exactly that pursuit, and my time with God was supernatural. Someone seeking a Copestella should be required to have a letter of support from their sending church or a credential issued by their church. This would return the pilgrimage to our Catholic Brothers and Sisters (of which I am not) and remove the race to the minimum of miles. Other walkers could receive a certificate celebrating their accomplishment of KM walked and those of the Catholic faith would receive their well-deserved Compostela.

While perhaps attractive on first glance, this really would not solve the "problem" of the 100-km folks. Observers of the crowds from Sarria will likely have noticed that the great majority are Spaniards and likely have some affiliation to the RCC already. A restriction would IMHO not have any real impact on those numbers. It also creates another problem, that those non-RC pilgrims who experience it as a Christian pilgrimage respecting its RC parameters, and especially those who seek compostelas for the departed, would be deprived of compostelas. I've spoken with clergy (even bishops!) who tell me that for them one of the greatest things about the Camino is how it enables them to share the experience of their beliefs with others-- it might be that the opponents of the restriction would be the Catholics themselves.

 

[David Tallan]

So many are looking for the minimum path to achieve their Compostela. You see in many boards, "Where can I start to get my 100KM?" Their desire is the Compostela. The Compostela is rooted in the traditions of my Catholic brothers and sisters. Those of the faith following the path of St James. There is a simple solution. Why should the Compostela be granted to anyone outside the Catholic Faith? (I am not Catholic and have 3) Anyone can state they walked for "spiritual" or "religious" reasons. My first Camino was dedicated to exactly that pursuit, and my time with God was supernatural. Someone seeking a Copestella should be required to have a letter of support from their sending church or a credential issued by their church. This would return the pilgrimage to our Catholic Brothers and Sisters (of which I am not) and remove the race to the minimum of miles. Other walkers could receive a certificate celebrating their accomplishment of KM walked and those of the Catholic faith would receive their well-deserved Compostela.

I am open to correction, and am not seeking to start an argument or a debate. I hope that this doesn't contravene the rules. I am just seeking to understand better.

My understanding has been that, from a Catholic doctrinal point of view, there isn't that much emphasis on the Compostela. It is really just a "Welcome to Compostela" paper without religious weight. Of much greater religious significance is the Indulgence, which doesn't come with the Compostela but rather with visiting the relics of the Saint and receiving Communion. No minimum walking distance or paper involved. Is this incorrect?

 

[Bradypus]

No minimum walking distance or paper involved. Is this incorrect?

That is my understanding too and it seems to be backed up by the pilgrim office's own website. To receive an indulgence you must visit the cathedral amongst other things but there is no requirement that you walk there.

 

[Tincatinker]

Hey. My Old Guys are like that: show a little respect, raise some smoke, spill a little wine, spin a coin into the river as you cross. No particular destination and no need to walk there when you go. No paperwork required.

Seems we’ve more in common than I’d thought.

 

[Sidknee]

I am open to correction, and am not seeking to start an argument or a debate. I hope that this doesn't contravene the rules. I am just seeking to understand better.

My understanding has been that, from a Catholic doctrinal point of view, there isn't that much emphasis on the Compostela. It is really just a "Welcome to Compostela" paper without religious weight. Of much greater religious significance is the Indulgence, which doesn't come with the Compostela but rather with visiting the relics of the Saint and receiving Communion. No minimum walking distance or paper involved. Is this incorrect?

Hi David, the history compostelas dates back to the Middle Ages, pilgrims completing a Camino required some proof of the completion of the pilgrimage. In some instances individuals would employ someone else to complete the pilgrimage on their behalf. People seeking indulgences, or who were ordered by a court, and other religious obligations could necessitate someone completing a pilgrimage. The first evidence of completion or ‘accreditations’ of the journey to Santiago were scallop shells and badges that were very easy to forge (Cerca 9th century).

Fraudulent badges and shells were easily purchased throughout Santiago and as a result the Cathedral and the Vatican had to intervene and decree excommunication penalties against counterfeiters.

From the 13th century the Cathedral started issuing ‘Cartas Probatorias’ or proof letters, which were more difficult to forge. These evolved into today’s Compostela certificate(s).

The Camino (similar to the Compostelas) has evolved beyond its religious roots, thankfully.

In essence the underlying reasons for obtaining or the need to obtain a compostela no longer exist. That said they are a nice way of acknowledging an individual’s commitment or efforts in completing their Camino.

The question of who should be eligible to receive one opens a whole different debate beyond the consideration of just distance. Personally I‘m indifferent to the eligibility requirements, will leave that for others to debate.

The first time I walked, many many moons ago (early 90’s), I didn’t get a Compostela. Am I sorry, not really, given my other 3 live in a draw and haven’t seen the light of day Since returning home. No doubt when I leave this mortal realm they’ll all be tossed, along with my City2Surf medals, Grade 6 Best Behaved certificate and University testamurs….

 

[David Tallan]

Hi David, the history compostelas dates back to the Middle Ages, pilgrims completing a Camino required some proof of the completion of the pilgrimage. In some instances individuals would employ someone else to complete the pilgrimage on their behalf. People seeking indulgences, or who were ordered by a court, and other religious obligations could necessitate someone completing a pilgrimage. The first evidence of completion or ‘accreditations’ of the journey to Santiago were scallop shells and badges that were very easy to forge (Cerca 9th century).

Fraudulent badges and shells were easily purchased throughout Santiago and as a result the Cathedral and the Vatican had to intervene and decree excommunication penalties against counterfeiters.

From the 13th century the Cathedral started issuing ‘Cartas Probatorias’ or proof letters, which were more difficult to forge. These evolved into today’s Compostela certificate(s).

The Camino (similar to the Compostelas) has evolved beyond its religious roots, thankfully.

In essence the underlying reasons for obtaining or the need to obtain a compostela no longer exist. That said they are a nice way of acknowledging an individual’s commitment or efforts in completing their Camino.

The question of who should be eligible to receive one opens a whole different debate beyond the consideration of just distance. Personally I‘m indifferent to the eligibility requirements, will leave that for others to debate.

The first time I walked, many many moons ago (early 90’s), I didn’t get a Compostela. Am I sorry, not really, given my other 3 live in a draw and haven’t seen the light of day Since returning home. No doubt when I leave this mortal realm they’ll all be tossed, along with my City2Surf medals, Grade 6 Best Behaved certificate and University testamurs….

Hi Sidknee,

I'm somewhat familiar with the history of the Compostela. I was specifically responding to someone who was asserting that they are currently religiously significant to Catholics and hence should perhaps not be given to non-Catholics.

Incidentally, on my first Camino (also many moons ago, late 80s) I was also not interested at all in a Compostela, nor in collecting sellos. On my second Camino, decades later (I see we have a similar gap between our first two Caminos), I wanted all the things: sellos, Compostela, distance certificate, Fisterrana. All are framed and displayed where I see them every day. My compostela from my third Camino is still in its tube. My next will be in vicare pro and I will give the Compostela away.

 

[Tigger]

Sadly, the question of where to start for the 100 km may be more a reflection of the turn in society as a whole rather than something unique to the Camino. The last few generations have been taught to work smarter, not harder, everyone gets a trophy, and the only thing overachievers get is stress.

Every child goes to college so they all take entrance exams. In the states they were given calculators to use on the exams... finally they just dropped the math section... too hard. The essay was optional, then dropped. English? Well, technically there is no official language so it's no fair to expect kids to excel in English. So they ask what is the minimum I need to graduate? The first year of college is now basic skills one should have learned in high school. I don't mean to be a wet blanket.

Pride in accomplishment is not what it was. Allowance is expected. Every teen expects an $800 cell phone with unlimited calling & driving privileges at 16 with no consideration of the costs. The bar is very low. It's going to be a challenge to interest them in more than the minimum.

Even more of a challenge would be the notion of group entitlement. Who could possibly be an authority on ruling which pilgrims are catholic and thus should receive the Compostela vs. who should not? Probably best not to over think this one.

 

[C clearly]

Sadly, the question of where to start for the 100 km may be more a reflection of the turn in society as a whole rather than something unique to the Camino. The last few generations have been taught to work smarter, not harder, everyone gets a trophy, and the only thing overachievers get is stress.

Every child goes to college so they all take entrance exams. In the states they were given calculators to use on the exams... finally they just dropped the math section... too hard. The essay was optional, then dropped. English? Well, technically there is no official language so it's no fair to expect kids to excel in English. So they ask what is the minimum I need to graduate? The first year of college is now basic skills one should have learned in high school. I don't mean to be a wet blanket.

Pride in accomplishment is not what it was. Allowance is expected. Every teen expects an $800 cell phone with unlimited calling & driving privileges at 16 with no consideration of the costs. The bar is very low. It's going to be a challenge to interest them in more than the minimum.

Even more of a challenge would be the notion of group entitlement. Who could possibly be an authority on ruling which pilgrims are catholic and thus should receive the Compostela vs. who should not? Probably best not to over think this one.

It must be good to get that off your chest.

 

[Pafayac]

Of much greater religious significance is the Indulgence, which doesn't come with the Compostela but rather with visiting the relics of the Saint and receiving Communion

Do you know many catholics who agree with what you are writing here ?
Since the Reformation, indulgences have not been very fashionable...
Do you know many people who sincerely believe that Saint James relics are in Santiago ?

 

[Peregrinopaul]

No minimum walking distance or paper involved. Is this incorrect?

No, it isn’t. The importance to a Catholic pilgrim would be participation in the sacraments.

 

[Kathar1na]

No, it isn’t. The importance to a Catholic pilgrim would be participation in the sacraments.

Indeed, walking is of no importance for obtaining a plenary indulgence in Santiago, or anywhere else for that matter.

The topic of the plenary indulgence seems to be of great interest to many but we mostly have heard about the relevance it had some 500 years ago when the faithful did get a piece of paper after they had made a financial donation for “works” while up to date general knowledge today among Camino peregrin@s is low, especially among the non-Catholic ones . All too often they confuse plenary indulgence and Compostela although there is plenty of information about the fundamental differences online, including on the website of the Pilgrims Office and in English.

BTW, I happened to watch the midday mass on Easter Sunday; mass is broadcast from the Santiago Cathedral every day (http://catedraldesantiago.es/retransmision-en-directo/). Towards the end, a co-officiant announced that the archbishop who officiated would grant a plenary indulgence for the faithful who fulfilled the known requirements. My Spanish isn’t good. As far as I understood it, it is really something very abstract and spiritual - it happened or was confirmed (I lack the vocubalury) while the archbishop spoke the words of the final benediction but without even mentioning the words “plenary indulgence“ as such.

PS: I trust that this comment stays within forum rules - it is merely informative about facts that are useful to know. It is not meant as discussing religious belief with positive, negative or critical connotations which would guarantee a thread closure.

 

[JabbaPapa]

So many are looking for the minimum path to achieve their Compostela. You see in many boards, "Where can I start to get my 100KM?" Their desire is the Compostela. The Compostela is rooted in the traditions of my Catholic brothers and sisters. Those of the faith following the path of St James. There is a simple solution. Why should the Compostela be granted to anyone outside the Catholic Faith? (I am not Catholic and have 3) Anyone can state they walked for "spiritual" or "religious" reasons. My first Camino was dedicated to exactly that pursuit, and my time with God was supernatural. Someone seeking a Copestella should be required to have a letter of support from their sending church or a credential issued by their church. This would return the pilgrimage to our Catholic Brothers and Sisters (of which I am not) and remove the race to the minimum of miles. Other walkers could receive a certificate celebrating their accomplishment of KM walked and those of the Catholic faith would receive their well-deserved Compostela.

I'm a Catholic, have since the 1994 always walked with a letter of support from a priest in my credencial, and I disagree.

Because unlike the other major Catholic foot pilgrimage routes, the Way of Saint James has always been open to non-Catholic Christians, and non-Christians, not least because it is a pathway of conversion. I walked my own 1993, and started my 1994 as an agnostic.

As to the 100K rule, it was instated simply because there are just so many pilgrims to Santiago every day that the Archdiocese had to stop providing pilgrimage certificates to most -- and most pilgrims to Compostela are not foot, bike, horse or other pilgrims, but they travel there by motor transport.

I do agree though that the letter of support is a good idea -- Mine have on occasion been helpful on the Way to be taken as trustworthy in parishes and the like.

 

[JabbaPapa]

My understanding has been that, from a Catholic doctrinal point of view, there isn't that much emphasis on the Compostela. It is really just a "Welcome to Compostela" paper without religious weight. Of much greater religious significance is the Indulgence, which doesn't come with the Compostela but rather with visiting the relics of the Saint and receiving Communion. No minimum walking distance or paper involved. Is this incorrect?

It has theoretic and marginal importance in Canon Law as a proof of having accomplished some requirement of penance for those who were under some forms of canonical penalty.

It became less important for such purposes after the 15th Century, and after Pope Martin V and his successors went to abolish the old penalty of minor excommunication. Someone under a penalty of minor excommunication could use his Compostela to have that penalty lifted.

 

[Kathar1na]

[…] where to start for the 100 km may be more a reflection of the turn in society as a whole […]

Every child goes to college so they all take entrance exams. In the states they were given calculators to use on the exams... finally they just dropped the math section... too hard. The essay was optional, then dropped. English? Well, technically there is no official language so it's no fair to expect kids to excel in English. So they ask what is the minimum I need to graduate? The first year of college is now basic skills one should have learned in high school. I don't mean to be a wet blanket.

I am getting confused here … is that an assessment of current Spain and current Spanish society and in particular of Galicia and Galician society where the Cathedral de Santiago is at the centre of its diocese or is this perhaps about some other country and characteristics - perceived or real - of the society there?

 

[Kathar1na]

Even more of a challenge would be the notion of group entitlement. Who could possibly be an authority on ruling which pilgrims are catholic and thus should receive the Compostela vs. who should not? Probably best not to over think this one.

I love this: “group entitlement” . They would probably ask you to tick a box in an online registration form and trust you to say the truth.

But, seriously, you don’t know? Baptism? Certificate of baptism? Parish register of birth, death and marriage? Extract?

I googled project development: a key first stage is “discovery”. I guess that’s what we are in right now?

Btw, I just googled a bit more and I immediately found a first parish where you can request a copy confirming that you have been baptised in a Catholic church. Online of course. It is the year 2023 after all.

 

[dick bird]

Do you know many catholics who agree with what you are writing here ?
Since the Reformation, indulgences have not been very fashionable...
Do you know many people who sincerely believe that Saint James relics are in Santiago ?

It would be helpful if you could actually state your own position clearly and unequivocally. Some people react to rhetorical questions as if they were simply negative comments in disguise.

 

[dick bird]

Sadly, the question of where to start for the 100 km may be more a reflection of the turn in society as a whole rather than something unique to the Camino. The last few generations have been taught to work smarter, not harder, everyone gets a trophy, and the only thing overachievers get is stress.

Every child goes to college so they all take entrance exams. In the states they were given calculators to use on the exams... finally they just dropped the math section... too hard. The essay was optional, then dropped. English? Well, technically there is no official language so it's no fair to expect kids to excel in English. So they ask what is the minimum I need to graduate? The first year of college is now basic skills one should have learned in high school. I don't mean to be a wet blanket.

Pride in accomplishment is not what it was. Allowance is expected. Every teen expects an $800 cell phone with unlimited calling & driving privileges at 16 with no consideration of the costs. The bar is very low. It's going to be a challenge to interest them in more than the minimum.

Even more of a challenge would be the notion of group entitlement. Who could possibly be an authority on ruling which pilgrims are catholic and thus should receive the Compostela vs. who should not? Probably best not to over think this one.

Not sure how relevant any of this to the OP’s question.

 

[dick bird]

The Compostela is issued by Santiago cathedral and they determine the criteria. I don’t think they are that responsive to the needs and wishes of the various town councils along the way. I think if they (i.e. local councils) want more pilgrims on the Camino they will need to do more than agitate for a change in the 100kms rule.

 

[Kathar1na]

One suggestion was that pilgrims who walk longer distances should receive a special Compostela. I'd be interested to know what people here think of the idea.

Since you asked : Right now I am thinking why did I let myself get drawn into this thread and what did Enrique Maya, the mayor of Pamplona and current president of the association of Camino Francés municipalities actually say?

So apparently this meeting happened in the context of preparing the celebration of the 30th anniversary of the Camino Francés receiving the label “World Heritage Site” in December 1993 and how the municipalities can promote this asset appropriately during the next 30 years.

And here is the link to the declaration that they published for this occasion:

Carta del Presidente de la Asociación por el 30 Aniversario - AMC Santiago

Carta AMCS 30 AÑOS DEL CAMINO FRANCÉS

www.amcsantiago.com

I could not find a reference to a special “Compostela”, btw. Another storm in the forum tea cup? Perhaps the interviewing journalist asked “What about a special Compostela for the long-distance Camino Francés” and the mayor replied: “Yes, perhaps”.

 

[Bradypus]

I could not find a reference to a special “Compostela”, btw. Another storm in the forum tea cup? Perhaps the interviewing journalist asked “What about a special Compostela” and the mayor replied: “Yes, perhaps”.

The suggestion was made in the original article I linked. I was interested to learn what peoples' responses to that particular proposal in that article might be. The accuracy of the reporting is another matter altogether and not strictly relevant to my question! I was surprised at quite how visceral my own negative reaction to the suggestion was. I find the idea of special treatment by way of a distinctive version of the Compostela or priority queues or any other distinction at the pilgrim office based solely on the distance travelled very divisive and repellent.

 

[David]

This is all rather strange to me ... I can see why communities in Spain want foreign visitors spending money, of course ... but ... but ... The pilgrim routes are pilgrim routes and specifically Roman Catholic (who, yes, are open to all) and the certificate given is an indulgence, a specific Catholic indulgence.

Sure, there are now bucket lists and I can also see why long distance walkers would like some sort of distance certificate to take home (well, actually I can't) ... so ... two completely separate certificates then; the Roman Catholic one and a hiker one that could be bought for a few Euros at a booth in the nearest hiking shop in Santiago?
Or am I missing something?

As for scooping up more cash rich pilgrims along the Caminos? The traditional Catholic method was to get saints relics and place them into various churches, convents, and monasteries ... (which, of course, is what the whole Santiago thing is, a pilgrimage to the relics of St James) if those communities really want to get this sorted they should buy a number of appropriate relics (yes! they can be bought) and install them along the Caminos and produce new guide books that give those churches, etc, as reverential stops along the way.
Just a few thoughts

 

[Bradypus]

and the certificate given is an indulgence, a specific Catholic indulgence.

It isn't. The Compostela does not come with a free indulgence. Indulgences are a separate matter and there are specifically religious requirements for receiving them: prayers, making a confession and receiving absolution, and receiving communion. The sacramental parts are generally only available to Catholics under church teachings.

 

[ivar]

I think most has been said on this topic... let's move on, I will close this thread.