- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2023 Vasco, Meseta, Portugues Coastal
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I doubt it. It might be the most complex thing that we're terribly interested in.The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world.
I hope that discussions won't be censored in this way. I think it would be a good idea to have a message on pages with discussions pertaining to medical issues (including things as mundane as blisters) along the lines of "See a medical professional for medical advice." The same could apply to legal discussion "See a legal professional for advice on legal issues." But I have a feeling that even with such a warning, some people will fail to seek medical advice for conditions that turn out to be serious.I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted.
I think that there is no need to ban posts on medical advice regarding injuries.I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted....
I hope that discussions won't be censored in this way. I think it would be a good idea to have a message on pages with discussions pertaining to medical issues (including things as mundane as blisters) along the lines of "See a medical professional for medical advice." The same could apply to legal discussion "See a legal professional for advice on legal issues." But I have a feeling that even with such a warning, some people will fail to seek medical advice for conditions that turn out to be serious.
I think you are probably correct that a warning should be added and maybe it is the only workable solution. In regards to flowers and duck billed platypuses that is their problem! Get your mind out of the gutter with all this sex stuff!!!!I doubt it. It might be the most complex thing that we're terribly interested in.
Apparently, there are flowers with bigger genomes than humans and monotremes with more sex chromasomes:
World's largest genome belongs to slow-growing mountain flower
An unremarkable and slow-growing plant has stunned scientists after they found it had the world's largest genome – 50 times bigger than that of our own species.www.telegraph.co.uk Duck-billed platypus boasts ten sex chromosomes - Nature
Odd mammal hints at evolutionary origin of sex determination.www.nature.com
I hope that discussions won't be censored in this way. I think it would be a good idea to have a message on pages with discussions pertaining to medical issues (including things as mundane as blisters) along the lines of "See a medical professional for medical advice." The same could apply to legal discussion "See a legal professional for advice on legal issues." But I have a feeling that even with such a warning, some people will fail to seek medical advice for conditions that turn out to be serious.
I agree with your example about personal responsibility completely. There are things that you can be banned for on this site. I am guessing it is with hate speech, threats etc. I have also seen where political commentary is frowned upon. So maybe that slippery slope has been breached already. I can't say. As someone else mentioned that their training sessions they once allowed medical questions and were read the riot act by an insurance executive regarding liability. I, maybe more than most have seen what well intended but possible poor or incorrect advice has wrought on people.I agree. I fully understand the concern of the OP, but trying to prevent people from acting foolishly by enforcing prohibitions is a slippery slope. And when it comes to possible legal liabilities it gets ridiculous. If for instance someone recommends the use of walking poles (and many do) and a person who has taken that advice stumbles over his poles and falls and break an arm- who is responsible? No one but yourself is responsible for acting sensibly.
You have exactly made my point for me. "Probably the advice you get here in the forum is better than on many other sources if you just search in the internet." Searching the internet can be a black hole, just as regularly as a layman's medical advice. You also are making the assumption that people are seeking medical advice. None of us know for sure regarding that one. There is absolutely no way of knowing if advice is going to be a panacea or the start of a bigger issue. Just as one final example how do you, I, or anyone else know that an injury not properly addressed considering the factors of an individual's general health, body and even if a suggestion for rehabilitation that is correct is being properly done without a professional's guidance will not lead to a lifetime of chronic pain.I think that there is no need to ban posts on medical advice regarding injuries.
Probably the advice you get here in the forum is better than on many other sources if you just search in the internet... and if the thread gets longer the advice to look for professional medical advice is not only mentioned one time, but often several times...
So maybe the pilgrims who read here for advice regarding injuries and can find these threads go more often to a professional afterwards than if you would ban these posts and you cannot find these hints any longer... even if there are "wrong" postings in these threads as well.
Also! You might think of the chain for medical help in this order: Self Care (blisters, stomach, etc) Pharmacist (Spain and Portugal have fantastic pharmacies everywhere who have staff who can do simple diagnosis and treatments are offered - they are more empowered than those in the USA to diagnose and treat) and if the Pharmacist says they cannot help you and that you need a doctor they will tell you!!I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
That sounds like a good pecking order. I have gotten very good advice from pharmacists in Spain. It does help that I have decent Spanish language skills. I am sure you could get by with google translate if need be.Also! You might think of the chain for medical help in this order: Self Care (blisters, stomach, etc) Pharmacist (Spain and Portugal have fantastic pharmacies everywhere who have staff who can do simple diagnosis and treatments are offered - they are more empowered than those in the USA to diagnose and treat) and if the Pharmacist says they cannot help you and that you need a doctor they will tell you!!
Even this feels heavy-handed.But maybe OP concern is a flag to get the moderators to become aware and set boundaries by warning on threads when the slope is getting too slippery into the medical advice field.
Are you qualified to recommend such a high salt intake?Advice offered on an internet forum needs to be taken with a few pounds of salt. But that should be up to each of us to take
Many speak English, but yes, google translate is used all the time in Farmacia's - almost expected I would say if there is a language barrier. I help USA students study abroad and that is what is used routinely to communicateThat sounds like a good pecking order. I have gotten very good advice from pharmacists in Spain. It does help that I have decent Spanish language skills. I am sure you could get by with google translate if need be.
Thanks
I agree with you. I was not speaking about minor illnesses or physical problems.I would reasonably expect more useful information on prevention of common pilgrimage related minor medical problems from an experienced pilgrim than from a physician that has no idea what you are going to do to your poor body.
The medical profession does a pretty good job of fixing the damage later though. Especially the clinics near the camino.
Please don’t limit my access to this excellent resource.
Are you qualified to recommend such a high salt intake?
I must admit that I wouldn't take any discussion among forum members about medical matters as having the quality of medical advice, but clearly you do. Do you have a view when it is reasonable for someone to rely on recommendations made in the forum? I would have thought that it was clear most of us are not professionals, and are not putting ourselves forward as other than lay people, nor do those who might be qualified appear to claim to have met the registration requirements for any particular jurisdiction. What am I missing here?I have never felt comfortable with the medical advice dispensed on this Forum. If I was Ivar’s attorney, I’d advise him not to allow it.
Whilst I can’t disagree with any of the sage professional advice given here can I add a few thoughts from someone who is totally unqualified.
When I was diagnosed with cancer I joined an online support group. I found it incredibly supportive. I also found it a huge source of information. I learned a great deal about my treatment, how I might feel, what steps I could take to help ease they side effects... and after I also learned a few very useful things about my care going forward. All of this information helped me to understand my illness when I talked with my own doctors. Of course there was stuff that I thought was wrong but I filtered. That group was amazing and gosh I felt so supported.
Recently I’ve been diagnosed coeliac and I joined a group on Facebook. As before I’ve learned so much but I do have to filter... I don’t agree with it all but I’m learning and feel like I have a place to go and ask questions.
The reason why folks ask questions here, I suspect, is the same reason why I joined those groups; they want opinions, support, encouragement. I ask questions to build knowledge... your answers form part of my learning curve.
So whilst I totally agree that medical advice on here (or elsewhere) could/should perhaps come with a caveat ‘go seek medical advice because we are not doctors’ I do think it would be a great shame for it to disappear or be censored. Opinion is good and I am definitely in the camp that courts the experience of others... I’ve no idea why I find it comforting but I always do and no matter what I learn it never stops me seeking professional advice in the real world.
Lee, I am thankful to be a cancer survivor for twenty years now! I sought expert medical treatment at MSK hospital n NYC. It was a very rare type of sarcoma. I started out at another hospital not knowing what was wrong...neither did they. When I arrived at MSK...time was critical. ...I was operated on two days later. The physician who operated was the foremost surgeon in the world for this type of cancer. He told me years later that had if I had come in 3 months later, I likely would not have survived...that is how aggressive th3 tumor was!
My point is that getting the right diagnosis should be one’s first priority. I do not think that can be done on any forum? But support, yes!
Wow... that must have been scary! Mine had been slowly growing for about 8 years and was spotted by my sons knee doctor... and very thankful I am to that wonderful doctor!
I am not disagreeing with you in anyway. I totally agree that anyone in your situation should be going to a doctor. But there's a long way between has anyone walked after x y z and life threatening cancer. Also, some comments on here could ring alarm bells with one of us and it could push a poster into going to see a doctor. I live in France where heath care is free and wonderful so I would never hesitate in going to my GP but that's not the case for everyone.
I honestly can't make an argument for all the sensible replies about the need for professional medical advice. You are right... That is 100% the right thing to suggest... but I am saying that public forums do help some people and it would be a great shame to lose this.
I think people should feel free to relate their own experience with the issue. If that experience included treatment from a medical professional, I see no harm in telling the group about that treatment. That's not irresponsible. Perhaps everyone should qualify their responses by saying that they are not a doctor and that the OP should see one.I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
I think that is a great idea. The more you pound into people's heads that each experience is unique can be helpful as well as educational.I think people should feel free to relate their own experience with the issue. If that experience included treatment from a medical professional, I see no harm in telling the group about that treatment. That's not irresponsible. Perhaps everyone should qualify their responses by saying that they are not a doctor and that the OP should see one.
I think that what you said about doctors looking things up on google makes a good point. I have two answers for that. I have had doctors say to me that they do not know the answer to a question and tell me they will get the right answer and get back to me. When I was a pharmaceutical rep and discussed medications, especially when it was for off label uses, I would immediately have the doctor call the PharmD at our company or I would recommend them calling "thought leaders" at teaching hospitals to discuss off-label use as I was completely unqualified (and it is highly illegal) to discuss this. Pharm D's and thought leaders have the knowledge that doctors need to make informed decisions.Great post, thanks! I agree that one should see a medical provider if they have a health problem before heading out on a long walk. I also agree that advice from strangers on the internet can be risky. Your torn meniscus is not the same as my torn meniscus. That being said, as an epidemiologist and clinical researcher, I have often gotten bad and/or outdated advice from my medical provider. I've seen them look up my condition on Google while I sat there. I've also had one tell me to stop walking long distances. Haha.
Don't be afraid to research your issue online (on REPUTABLE medical sites). There's nothing wrong with asking for anecdotal input, as long as you know that is all that it is and you can add it to whatever else you learn from other sources. And I would advise anyone offering recommendations to be clear that you are only talking about your own experience, which may not be transferable to others.
I do not think that asking for support and kindness is a bad thing at all but extrapolating it to include advice that one has no knowledge of its validity is a big danger. I also disagree that in almost every post there is the caveat that one should see a doctor. Even if it is there one can never be sure if people will follow through with that. There is the assumption here that most people here are intelligent and thoughtful people which I will not argue with whatsoever.I have to disagree. Posts I have seen in response to requests for help or advice seem to have "well, it may be this" or "this may help" or "I had similar and I did this" but they always seem to also include "but you must go and see a specialist/therapist/doctor/hospital" as well.
Many injuries and problems are common to the Camino, and so posters ask others ....
now, although I do see that advice could be wrong, even dangerous - consider: hot weather, someone comes on saying that they are feeling weak and a little dizzy in the heat. The conclusion is that it is dehydration and advice on dehydration is given, whereas, unknown to us they have an infected blister and are actually suffering from sepsis and if not treated will die - regardless of that possibility I am fervently against all forms of censorship and fervently for input as it is only input, information, that allows us to make informed decisions.
There is another reason people posts medical issue posts and this is to do with the human condition, what it is in essence to be human - we are tribal creatures, not loners, and when hurt we ask for support from our tribe; sympathy, caring, warmness, a normal and human and positive thing to do .. to want sympathy, bonding, sharing .. it is our most human trait, so to censor that is to isolate the person from their tribe, which is a very bad thing, don't you think?
I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
Where it gets tricky is where to draw the line. Leaving a thread through a blister to drain off fluid - simple self-care advice that anyone can give or something that can lead to serious infection ending someone's Camino and best left to medical professionals? Or David's misdiagnosis of weakness and dizziness in the heat in post #17 above. The area of grey between the black and white areas of minor illnesses and physical problems and serious medical conditions that should only be addressed by medical professionals is a very wide are indeed. I'm not sure how we would draw the line in many, if not most, cases.I agree with you. I was not speaking about minor illnesses or physical problems.
I'll be taking two prescribed meds besides my regular ones: (1) Cipro, an antibiotic that I absolutely know works for urinary tract infections. Ladies, you know that when you get one of those babies you have to hit it fast. (2) Zofran, for nausea. CAVEAT, DISCLAIMER: I am not giving medical advice. I'm just telling the group about me. Don't take an antibiotic unless prescribed and until you know whether you're allergic to it!David - I hope your Australian pilgrim friend who ‘seems intelligent’ isn’t a member of this forum as I suspect she would find your comment insulting. There are very many valid and good reasons why pilgrims, and indeed any travellers, choose to take a supply of antibiotics away with them. They’re sometimes needed and needed quickly. You, as a first-aider, have seen this. The decision to include antibiotics in one’s kit is a personal choice and it’s not for others to make judgements about that choice.
I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted.
Thank you and so very well said.I agree. I fully understand the concern of the OP, but trying to prevent people from acting foolishly by enforcing prohibitions is a slippery slope. And when it comes to possible legal liabilities it gets ridiculous. If for instance someone recommends the use of walking poles (and many do) and a person who has taken that advice stumbles over his poles and falls and break an arm- who is responsible? No one but yourself is responsible for acting sensibly.
Really good point Evvie - all round.I'll be taking two prescribed meds besides my regular ones: (1) Cipro, an antibiotic that I absolutely know works for urinary tract infections. Ladies, you know that when you get one of those babies you have to hit it fast. (2) Zofran, for nausea. CAVEAT, DISCLAIMER: I am not giving medical advice. I'm just telling the group about me. Don't take an antibiotic unless prescribed and until you know whether you're allergic to it!
I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
I hope your surgery goes really well. Having a support group to discuss a common element is absolutely not what I’m talking about. I believe that is really excellent for you and others in any situation that can’t be life altering or traumatic. I am only talking about giving medical advice by blaming who are ill-equipped to do so and with all good intentions may cause more harm. A support group is an excellent way to prepare yourself and after surgery or a treatment is probably even better For your heart and soul. Once again good luck. My brother just had a hip replacement and he’s doing fantasticallyI commented on that thread. The individuals that commented before me as well as I all suggested the individual speak to her doctor and follow their advice.
I see no problems in getting together and finding out how others have endured similar situations. As someone waiting to get double knee replacement surgery, I have appreciated talking with those individuals that have gone through the experience and given me hope that it can work out and that I will be able to enjoy long distance walking again.
I made myself very clear. I don’t know if your comment is sarcastic or what but I’ve made my point. I think it’s very obvious what I’m trying to sayShould we also ban advice about medical advice?
You are 100% correct about that. It’s very very difficult. My biggest complaint and worry is when people describe a very obvious condition that is either already serious or has the potential to be serious. Your point about an infection and getting sepsis although probably very rare to the extent of sepsis is still possible. Something that I have noticed on my Caminos is when I see a person who has blisters or a shin splint etc. and refuses to stop and rest because they don’t want to leave their Camino family. Although I prefer to walk alone usually I understand how important that bond is. I have made such bonds. But when I tell people wh something that I have noticed on my Caminos is when I see a person who has blisters or a shin splint etc. and refuses to stop and rest because they don’t want to leave their Camino family. Although I prefer to walk alone usually I understand how important that bond is. I have made such bones. But when I tell people whether when they asked me what they should do. (I never offer unsolicited opinions usually haha). Would your real family stop and wait for you to get better? Speaking of your mom or dad brother or sister husband or wife or child. Of course they would. You’re a Camino family is doing what’s best for each individual person in that family you need to do that too. I am sure we have all made people who had injuries and refused to stop and they were in great pain and suffering.Where it gets tricky is where to draw the line. Leaving a thread through a blister to drain off fluid - simple self-care advice that anyone can give or something that can lead to serious infection ending someone's Camino and best left to medical professionals? Or David's misdiagnosis of weakness and dizziness in the heat in post #17 above. The area of grey between the black and white areas of minor illnesses and physical problems and serious medical conditions that should only be addressed by medical professionals is a very wide are indeed. I'm not sure how we would draw the line in many, if not most, cases.
Michael, I had a knee replacement on Feb 28 and will begin my Camino on Sept 4. It's not an easy thing to go through, just go to physical therapy and do your exercises EVERY day. Good luck!I commented on that thread. The individuals that commented before me as well as I all suggested the individual speak to her doctor and follow their advice.
I see no problems in getting together and finding out how others have endured similar situations. As someone waiting to get double knee replacement surgery, I have appreciated talking with those individuals that have gone through the experience and given me hope that it can work out and that I will be able to enjoy long distance walking again.
Michael, I had a knee replacement on Feb 28 and will begin my Camino on Sept 4. It's not an easy thing to go through, just go to physical therapy and do your exercises EVERY day. Good luck!
You HAVE to be proactive when it comes to the exercises. It will really, really hurt at first -- they'll have you in PT one or two days post-op -- but you have to do them. Push yourself when you can, lighten up at other times. But always, always do them. Scar tissue is your enemy. It can be painful forever and it can severely limit your range of motion. Again, all the best of luck to you!All I can say is, God bless you. I am heartened to know that you have done so well on rehabilitation and can walk the Camino.
I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
just take one trip to a Spanish EMergency department, and have the doctor dress you down for "wasting my time and national resources," and you too will think long and hard before seeking medical help. (I reported him .Nothing happened.)
I’ve seen a number of people post replies advising people to not bother with getting into good physical shape to do the Camino. Not knowing what a person’s current health and fitness makes that sort of advice nearly criminal.I believe that medical advice regarding injuries or suggestions for people who have medical conditions should not be allowed to be posted. I am not talking about how to handle a blister, what to take if you have Montezuma's Revenge or a good ointment for aching muscles from walking. I am talking about injuries, illnesses or pre-existing conditions. No matter how well intentioned people are in relaying their own stories about similar issues, telling a person what they did can be dangerous. I just read about someone who has a torn meniscus and asking others what he should do about it. The human body is probably the most complex entity in the world. Each person's injury and illness is unique. There could be many reasons that someone suffered an injury or has developed morbidity. What could be a panacea for one could lead to a lifetime of problems for someone else. There are countless combinations and factors that lead to an injury or illness. The variety of underlying issues that we all have may make a therapy that worked for one person, can exacerbate that issue for another. It may easily lead to another injury or medical issue. If you are on the Camino and you are really sick, or injured, the Camino is not the Saraha Desert. Seek out medical help. If you have not left you, do not pass go and get to a doctor. It is then up to each of us to decide how to proceed after doing this.
I speak from personal experience. I know one of my professions, Pharmaceutical Representative is not always held in the highest esteem. I can tell you that I have had countless experiences in my private life as well as in doctor's offices waiting to see the doctor where people sought out my advice regarding very serious medical conditions. I ALWAYS stopped them and said, I am a drug rep and not a doctor. Please ask you doctor and no one else. Illness and injury are the symptoms of a serious problem. The problem itself could have far more serious implications than how the symptom presents itself.
Perhaps I am being picky here about your words, but...I’ve seen a number of people post replies advising people to not bother with getting into good physical shape to do the Camino.
I did my 2016 camino without getting into good physical shape first. I certainly won't say it was easy. It was really challenging. My 2018 camino (for which I did a fair amount of training, in addition to having some residual conditioning from 2016) was much easier. But if I had been worried before setting out on the 2016 camino and had asked on the forum if it was doable, I can imagine a couple of possible responses, based on what I tend to see here. One is that I shouldn't go but wait until I was in good physical shape. The other is that people have successfully done it without training, but it could be very challenging I should likely take it slow, at least at the beginning. It sounds like you would prefer the first response and consider the latter borderline criminal. I didn't ask for or receive advice, but the advice that would have been much more useful to me is the latter. It may be borderline criminal (depending on the laws where you happen to live) but I found the experience of my Camino valuable and had I followed the former advice, I may never have walked.I’ve seen a number of people post replies advising people to not bother with getting into good physical shape to do the Camino. Not knowing what a person’s current health and fitness makes that sort of advice nearly criminal.
Problem is that there’s many people that over rate their current state of fitness. There’s 100’s of cases in which people that have never run since high school, have been sidelined with a heart attack within the first 1km of a marathon. First snowfall of the season sees thousands of men suffer heart attacks attempting to shovel the driveway. Basically people don’t know their limits and have never tested them out.I did my 2016 camino without getting into good physical shape first. I certainly won't say it was easy. It was really challenging. My 2018 camino (for which I did a fair amount of training, in addition to having some residual conditioning from 2016) was much easier. But if I had been worried before setting out on the 2016 camino and had asked on the forum if it was doable, I can imagine a couple of possible responses, based on what I tend to see here. One is that I shouldn't go but wait until I was in good physical shape. The other is that people have successfully done it without training, but it could be very challenging I should likely take it slow, at least at the beginning. It sounds like you would prefer the first response and consider the latter borderline criminal. I didn't ask for or receive advice, but the advice that would have been much more useful to me is the latter. It may be borderline criminal (depending on the laws where you happen to live) but I found the experience of my Camino valuable and had I followed the former advice, I may never have walked.
None of us know another person's current health and fitness, nor do we know what another person considers "good physical shape". On the one hand we are ignorant of what shape the asker is in. On the other hand, they are likely ignorant of the physical demands of the camino (which is why they are asking). We can send them to their doctor, which is one piece of advice that they will certainly be getting. But their doctor is unlikely to have lived experience of the Camino, too. And/Or, we can say "this is what worked for me; this is what other people in good and bad shape have accomplished; this is how it challenged; this is how I (or others) dealt with those challenges; take this information with your own knowledge of your physical and health situation and make your decisions, whatever they may be". Personally, I think this is the most useful. And if things go well, great! And if not, I really think the decision and accountability lie not with the person offering the information and advice but with the person making the decision.
But perhaps I belong in the vicinity of a jail.
I would absolutely advise people to train first, too. But my experience and the experience of many others is that it is not an absolute necessity and I really think that most of the deaths on the Camino do not come from first time seniors felled by the climb out of SJPP but rather people who get lost in the storms in the Pyrenees or suffer from the heat in the VDLP or on the meseta or get run over by vehicles on the road or seniors at any part of the Camino, who may not be walking it for the first time, whose time has come. Others may have stats that say differently and I am prepared to be educated.Problem is that there’s many people that over rate their current state of fitness. There’s 100’s of cases in which people that have never run since high school, have been sidelined with a heart attack within the first 1km of a marathon. First snowfall of the season sees thousands of men suffer heart attacks attempting to shovel the driveway. Basically people don’t know their limits and have never tested them out.
The Camino is a walk and most people find walking very easy to do. So it’s got to be easy! It’s not so easy. You’re walking up and down hills with a pack for 6 to 7 hours a day. With not much time to recover you’re back and doing it again the next day. The body cannot build up muscle and be under stress at the same time. If you’re young, you can get away with it, but for most of the seniors this stress could easily lead to a heart attack.
My advice to people doing the Camino is start training at home, 6 months in advance. That way you can sort out any health/equipment issues and if you’re going to die of a heart attack your family does not have to ship you home.
I would absolutely advise people to train first, too. But my experience and the experience of many others is that it is not an absolute necessity and I really think that most of the deaths on the Camino do not come from first time seniors felled by the climb out of SJPP but rather people who get lost in the storms in the Pyrenees or suffer from the heat in the VDLP or on the meseta or get run over by vehicles on the road or seniors at any part of the Camino, who may not be walking it for the first time, whose time has come. Others may have stats that say differently and I am prepared to be educated.
Agreed! I would hope those who ask questions will take any advice with a grain of salt and some common sense.Doing first aid on Camino my first rule is 'do no harm' and would never offer medical advice nor 'patch over' a problem that I don't understand ... I do simple first aid, if I come up against anything not simple or even something that causes me slight concern I send them or take them to the nearest health surgery...
So - I say keep it open, the forum, and let us offer our experience of similar symptoms but always suggest that visit to a professional.
Well, I think some of the 'advice' given by some members is pretty uncompromising! And I am not referring to competent first-aid.I think that @Isca-camigo has found just the right word as have others. We give advice to fellow pilgrims not a diagnosis. Advice can be checked out with the medically qualified or in some cases can be tried. Ideas from fellow pilgrims have been beneficial to may of us, but if really ill in Spain I would seek medical advice from either a pharmacist or suitably qualified practitioner. Sometimes if they are a distance away,or if as for @Isca-camigo the treatment has not worked, then other advice is helpful....
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?