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but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
I believe that if this is what people are doing then they are only cheating themselves. Some people tend to go through their lives in a constant state of denial. To me that's their problem. We all travel through our lives in the way that we choose. I choose different to them. I wouldn't feel at ease with myself if I chose to, as one would say, cheat. Maybe they are fine with it. Hold you head high and travel your way.Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
I completely agree. We must each walk our own Camino without judgement of the other. We are not walking in their shoes and have no idea how transformative the experience is for them.I think to concern oneself with this matter is a slippery slope. Everyone has to make their own Camino journey.
The Pilgrim Office is authorized to issue the compostela. It requires that a pilgrim walk the last 100km or bicycle the last 200km to the tomb of St. James. If a pilgrim does not abide by the rule, he/she has not earned the compostela.Where does it say that anyone should be denied the Compostela because they did not walk all the way.
Where does it say that anyone should be denied the Compostela because they did not walk all the way.
It's their camino, after all.
Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)
There are exceptions for the disabled.for all I know they are seriously disabled and unable to walk more than 100 steps unaided.
Me, too!!For me it's a pilgrimage not a stamp collection
Falcon I know that you are a font of knowledge in all the little details, and as someone for whom the journey is more important than the destination, I ask the question, is it not a fact that to get a compestella you should have made the journey for Spiritual/ Religious reasons. If that is the case and having spoken to many people on the way, there may be even more reasons to doubt the validity of their compostella.The Pilgrim Office is authorized to issue the compostela. It requires that a pilgrim walk the last 100km or bicycle the last 200km to the tomb of St. James. If a pilgrim does not abide by the rule, he/she has not earned the compostela.
El Cabildo de la Iglesia Metropolitana de Santiago siguió expidiendo el certificado y en la época moderna se limitó la concesión de la “Compostela” a aquellos que acuden a la Tumba del Apóstol por motivo religioso y/o espiritual, y siguiendo las rutas del Camino de Santiago a pie, en bicicleta o a caballo. Para ello se exige haber recorrido como mínimo los últimos 100 kilómetros a pie o a caballo o también los últimos 200 en bicicleta, lo cual se demuestra con la evidencia de la “credencial del peregrino” debidamente sellada a lo largo de la ruta recorrida. Quedan excluidas, por tanto, otras formas de desplazamiento para acceder a la Compostela, excepto cuando se trate de discapacitados.
Google translate:
The Chapter of the Metropolitan Church of Santiago continued to issue the certificate and in modern times the granting of "Compostela" was limited to those who come to the tomb of the Apostle on religious grounds and / or spiritual, and following pilgrimage routes Santiago on foot, bike or horseback. This is required to be driven at least the last 100 kilometers on foot or on horseback or even the last 200 bike, which is demonstrated by the evidence of the "pilgrim credential" duly stamped along the route traveled. Excluded therefore other forms of displacement to access Compostela, except in the case of disabled.
It is reasons that count, not success!is it not a fact that to get a compestela you should have made the journey for Spiritual/ Religious reasons. If that is the case and having spoken to many people on the way, there may be even more reasons to doubt the validity of their compostela.
The question of what it should take to earn a Compostela is a different question than whether it is right to lie in order to obtain one. It wouldn't particularly bother me if they reduced the minimum to 75k or increased it to 125k, but it would bother me to know that someone had lied on their document and stated that they had walked the required distance when they had not, in fact,done so. One person's "spiritual" purpose may not be the same as someone else's, but a kilometer is a kilometer. And, lying is lying.The Pilgrim Office is authorized to issue the compostela. It requires that a pilgrim walk the last 100km or bicycle the last 200km to the tomb of St. James. If a pilgrim does not abide by the rule, he/she has not earned the compostela.
I walked from Sarria with a woman who had started in SJPdP. A compostela was very important to her as a Catholic. She had some foot problems early, but it wasn't until Ponferrada that she really began to suffer. She bought new shoes in Ponferrada, then in Sarria, she bought walking sandals. Despite having lost a lot of weight, she was struggling with every step. Each day I would start before her, then see her already in the next stop when I arrived. We shared a drink over our compostelas in Santiago at the end, and she was elated. Friends allow each other their private worlds, so I never asked, and she never told. It was clear beyond cavil that she had walked 100km at considerable physical expense and in a holy Catholic spirit. The last 100km? Only she knows.it would bother me to know that someone had lied on their document and stated that they had walked the required distance when they had not, in fact,done so. One person's "spiritual" purpose may not be the same as someone else's, but a kilometer is a kilometer. And, lying is lying.
Like the pilgrim Falcon describes, I struggled to make it to Santiago: after coming up lame in Itero de la Vega, and taking buses and trains to Sarria, I completed my camino on crutches. I am proud -- as an Anglican -- to have earned my compostela. Without that goal -- walking the last 100 kilometers -- I probably would have stopped my camino at a bus station or train station in Astorga or Ponferrado. Had I stopped my camino, i would have missed experiences and fellow pilgrims that changed me, forever.
Me too.I do have to say that I love taking out my credencials from time to time, looking at the stamps and reminiscing.
Dax said "for me it's a pilgrimage, not a stamp collection" and falcon said "me too".
Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
Thank you both for your responses! I'm struggling with this, even though I KNOW it shouldn't concern me.
If someone cheats or lies to the Almighty (this being a matter of religious penance), then the matter is entirely out of my earthly hands.If there are rules and if you break them, you are cheating. Cheating is like lying. If lying and cheating don´t concern you...
I get the sense that some are angered that they don't get their punishment in this life!If someone cheats or lies to the Almighty, then the matter is entirely out of my earthly hands.
I truly don't understand why anyone would want to misrepresent themselves in this fashion, or, in fact, even be capable of doing so. Though I have walked several caminos, quickly, completely and never missing an inch, such falseness is something I could not do --I just wouldn't have the strength.Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
Seriously -Why is this important to you?
GVMelissa:
I would offer these words of consolation.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change;
The courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Ultreya,
Joe
Started in SJPDP and humped a ruck the entire way. Of Course, I feel a little disappointed that people taking taxis or only doing 100 kilometers also get a "Get Out Of Hell Free" Compostella, but nothing I can do about it.
BYW --best thing I heard about the Compostella was from a young woman walking without a pack because it was on a taxi. She said that after 3 days of carrying her pack, she realized that one only gets one compostella and it is not for the pack getting to Santiago. Smart young woman!
None of our business, if a walker wants to have a piece of paper that says that he has walked the last 100km, even if not true, he is doing nothing but cheating himself.Hi all,
I'm curious as to what you think, about people getting a Compostela even though they were using a taxi service regularly. One guy that we met in the last 100k was a church organist who was taking a taxi daily along with his companions packs, meeting up at the end of the day at an albergue. We ran into him again in Santiago and he was so proud that he had his Compostela. This guy was young and apparently fit, but had a knee problem (I think).
I've also seen pilgrims posting about getting the new distance certificate saying they walked the full 790k from SJPdP even though they bused through a very large portion (maybe 1/3 of the way).
I understand if someone has a day or 2 or 3 where they need to bus/taxi instead of walk, but skipping large sections and then picking up certificates saying you walked 790 k or that you qualify for the regular Compostela, having walked the last 100k, seems dishonest to me. I know it's only a certificate and not really a big deal, but shouldn't honesty be a pretty big deal on a pilgrimage.
What do you think?
Nah. Many of the original pilgrims were sent on their trip as punishment for a crime. They cheated every chance they got. It is a tradition.
As we say over here , We sleep during the night . You have to proof what you say .Nah. Many of the original pilgrims were sent on their trip as punishment for a crime. They cheated every chance they got. It is a tradition.
I used an aeroplane at the start of my first camino. For my second camino I used two trains and a couple of buses. On my third camino I used an aeroplane, a bus, two taxis and a skateboard (very briefly). The next time I used an avion, a teleferico, a Ferrocarril and a caballo. After that I stopped recording how I got there, even though my Spanish was improving, and started concentrating on why I was making the journey.
Its quite fun to see these old threads, and old debates, revived. But isn't it all getting just a little bit "old"(my god-daughters assure me that passe is "old").
The Camino is: Peregrinos; Miscreants; Cheats; Blaggers; Braggers and Banditos carrying Daggers are - but none of that changes Camino. Indeed, it is all Camino. Until some one can show me how the poor bewildered bugger (sorry b*gg*r) in the queue at the Pilgrims Office with his pre-stamped Credencial provided by the Tour Guide (don't forget the tip) is doing me any harm I will just pray for his benighted soul and pass on.
And to add to that, let's not forget that all who travel to Compostela for purposes of pilgrimage are pilgrims, including all those who bus, train, drive, or fly there.
As we say over here , We sleep during the night . You have to proof what you say .
Peter .
???
How exactly could they "cheat" ? There were no trains, buses, or taxis.
And it wasn't "punishment", but penance.
Sorry, but I think you've invented that story out of thin air.
Ooops! Better edit my post!FYI jusy is usually spelt 'just' ;0)
And my keyboard skills will never match my eeloquens :0)
newfydog said:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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good way not to get involved but definitely a copout. Meanwhile, the majority break their chops walking amidst may difficulties.I think to concern oneself with this matter is a slippery slope. Everyone has to make their own Camino journey.
Hi Syates, Thank you.Michener's Iberia is a great novel, but, at the same time, it has also some fictional elements to it. He surely subscribed to "never let the truth stay in the way of a good story". ;-)
As for youngsters doing the Camino instead of a legal penalty, you might want to research Oikoten and similar projects.
Buen Camino, SY
On the "Compostela for sale", I have read somewhere that a Portuguese man has his legs for sale, he will do the Camino for you for a fee, the fee will depend on the length from starting point to Santiago de Compostela.
Michener's Iberia is a great novel, but, at the same time, it has also some fictional elements to it. He surely subscribed to "never let the truth stay in the way of a good story". ;-)
I wasn't going to say anything but since you brought it up, @SYates, I have to say that I agree. I've read a few more scholarly books than Michener who is a travel writer and author of successful novels. It sounds like pure fiction to me that in Spanish border cities..a lively trade operates in these Compostelas...selling them to those who do not wish to undergo the hazards of western Spain. The criminal, having laid out good money for the Compostela, stuffs it in his pocket, has a high time in Spanish inns, and returns seven months later to submit his proof to the sentencing judge. I'd like to see a proper source for such a claim. He's obviously confusing (or fusing and embellishing) the certification letters with the earlier shell selling and counterfeit business where the SdC Cathedral was anxious not loose their cut of the profits.Michener's Iberia is a great novel, but, at the same time, it has also some fictional elements to it. He surely subscribed to "never let the truth stay in the way of a good story". ;-)
I wasn't going to say anything but since you brought it up, @SYates, I have to say that I agree with you. I've read a few more scholarly books than Michener who is a travel writer and author of many successful novels. It sounds like pure fiction to me e
Hi JabbaPapa< I cannot see in my previous message the word cheating, neither I said that the obtained Compostela was a Certificate for SaleVicarious pilgrimages aren't cheating -- and that's not "Compostelas for sale", it's somebody accomplishing a religious purpose for another person.
But they do make decisions who does and doesn't. I did a Camino with an American lad I met on the way and we walked together for 10 days there were many who definitely were not doing it for a religious purpose but told the Compostela office they did. I myself was refused an actual certificate because I said I was doing it for the purpose historical and other. They gave me a small piece of paper for my accomplishment after having done the whole of the Camino. I refuse to take this lesser document and told them to keep it. I am religious and because I said non-religious was refused. Meanwhile, the lineups were long and some were smoking up and these get the Compostela. Now I refuse to get a Compostela because its a farce. I am content to do the Camino to the best of my ability and help my fellow pilgrims and leave it at that.While I have a compostela, which I earned, I value my credential more -- much more -- and if I lost both (neither of which have any tangible value), I know the camino is indelibly imprinted on my mind and soul, and manifests in the choices I now make when I look for, see, and follow the way markers of daily life.
That said, I would be disappointed to see the tradition that is the compostela diminished or made less significant if it no longer required some demonstrable minimum achievement -- but would not want to pick up and shoulder the burden of deciding who will and will not qualify to receive a compostela.
We now call ourselves tourigrinos.
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