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It's made the UK newspapers too:Spanish newspapers report that two British pilgrims got lost in the SJPP-Roncesvalles stage and were rescued yesterday.
They reportedly survived five days drinking water from streams and cattle abreuvoirs. Finally, they decided to ask for help (a phone call?), and rescue teams from Burguete spotted them near Gaindola (Valcarlos) in an very abrupt area, because they had made a cross with bright clothes. They were rescued and are apparently quite well, apart from tiredness, dehydration and hunger.
http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/naci...rdidos-desde-viernes-navarra-1015301-305.html
I'm glad everyone was safe in the end! To any worried new pilgrims, I'd point out that the couple set out from SJPP at 4 pm, "intending to walk to Roncesvalles." Not a good idea. Then, wandering for 3 full days while drinking from cattle troughs seems odd, given that they had a phone. (Although maybe reception was unreliable.)It's made the UK newspapers too:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/17/british-pair-lost-for-five-days-on-pilgrimage-in-spain
I'm glad everyone was safe in the end! To any worried new pilgrims, I'd point out that the couple set out from SJPP at 4 pm, "intending to walk to Roncesvalles." Not a good idea. Then, wandering for 3 full days while drinking from cattle troughs seems odd, given that they had a phone. (Although maybe reception was unreliable.)
This does illustrate how some basic preparation and knowledge, with a touch of caution, could go a long way in reducing the risks.
The article had an strange statement at the end - increasing patrols on a section of the camino is not the same as providing a police escort!
Obviously, what matters is that they are sound and safe. Good for them; they will have a good story to tell their grandchildren.
I have been wondering, too, about how they got lost there. And besides curiosity, there are probably lessons to be learnt from this incident. Anyway, probably we will never know what had happened, unless it re-appears in a “Survivor” series in the TV.
In my experiences, trekking disaster do not arrive as a big, thundering eventr (as in a meteorite landing onto my head). It is more like an accumulation of little bad decisions:
1. I take a wrong turn.
2. After a while I realize that, but instead of going backwards I persist, hoping that my road will eventually join the right one.
3. When the road becomes a path, and the path ends in nowhere, I trust my never sufficiently praised mental cartographic abilities and try to take a shortcut.
4. I am not sure anymore about where I am, but I am too vain to recognize it (this is a typically masculine mistake)
5. I become completely lost. This is the moment to come back to the paved road, or look for the first farm or village in sight, follow a stream down the valley, or the power lines (in a plain), to the nearer civilized spot.
I have never been in the 5 stage, but a couple of times I have been in, let’s say, a 4,25 situation.
Yes Kathar1na, that's exactly what it means (and SW, BTW).says that they were found "en suelo francés, a unos 3 kilómetros del barrio de Gaindola (Valcarlos) en dirección suroeste". Does this mean "on French territory, about 3 km to the SW (or SE???) of Gaindola"? How did they manage to get there???
Next thing you know there will be a cord attached to the pilgrim office in SJPP at one end and to the albergue in Roncesvalles at the other so people can keep holding it during 27km so they don't get lost. Like cave diving ropesThe article had an strange statement at the end - increasing patrols on a section of the camino is not the same as providing a police escort!
I hope their parents have a serious talk with both of them when/if they return home.The Telegraph says that the two people are in their fifties.
A true Darwin Award moment ..... did you know that one third of the human population have an IQ below 85?
I say no more .......
Ha, ha, Thanks for the laugh: Indeed, David. But... They were British, weren't they?A true Darwin Award moment ..... did you know that one third of the human population have an IQ below 85?
I say no more .......
I don't remember reading that they were taking the Route Napoleon. Maybe they set off to go through Valcarlos, not that it explains much!nowhere near the Route Napoleon
Having walked that way I wonder how could they possibly have missed Vacarlos? Well. It's a cautionary lesson for me, too. Don't assume I know where I'm going and turn back if things don't seem quite right rather than forging onward into drinking-from-water-troughs-land.You could see the logic in their decision to make a late start if they were planning to go no further than Valcarlos. A leisurely 7 mile stroll on a summer evening would make a gentle start to a Camino.
You are close to the mark. By the time the reporter heard the story (second hand - unless he actually tracked them down), wrote the article, had the sub-editor do his or her stuff - changed the order of paragraphs - took out 50 words here and there, its a wonder we even were told they were on the Camino.That's because you did not click on all the articles linked in this thread. It does not cease to amaze me how events get reported and twisted in the news, and how many well-reputed media simply copy from each other without any fact checking of their own. It is a strange story.
So glad these "children" are safe and well. 5 days and nights! Could not believe what I was reading in the Mail yesterday. Speechless.Spanish newspapers report that two British pilgrims got lost in the SJPP-Roncesvalles stage and were rescued yesterday.
They reportedly survived five days drinking water from streams and cattle abreuvoirs. Finally, they decided to ask for help (a phone call?), and rescue teams from Burguete spotted them near Gaindola (Valcarlos) in an very abrupt area, because they had made a cross with bright clothes. They were rescued and are apparently quite well, apart from tiredness, dehydration and hunger.
http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/naci...rdidos-desde-viernes-navarra-1015301-305.html
@Annette londonIf myself and the husband had been lost for 5 days we'd probably have killed EACH OTHER!!!
Very good Albertagirl! Boiled and cooked, I could feed an army!!!@Annette london
For food?
I confess I was thinking of making a leisurely evening start with a stroll to Valcarlos next week until I read this report. On reflection, it might be better to wait 'til the morning and follow the crowds,
You can add me to your list! I agree that no-one gets lost on purpose and even though it is a well marked route we don't know much about the two unfortunate souls.I am saying this because there seems to be a lot of anger and ridicule against these British pilgrims. Anyone who thinks that it is stupid and irresponsible to get lost is welcome to redirect some of it at me. No one gets lost on purpose. They go on making decisions as best they can or continuing on the route that they think is the right one, until they know it isn't but can no longer continue. Route finding is a gift for some, a challenge for others, myself among them. Show a little compassion and understanding to two people who survived a difficult situation.
@Wokabaut_MeriHumans are funny creatures when lost. We actually rearrange the map in our hands to suit the perceived landscape. I'd read about it and made many of the same comments as this thread. And then I found myself lost.
Isn't the Valcarlos route longer, requiring a night there before arriving in Rincesvalles? And they would have left at 4pm for that?! Even worse. Because the paper says they were hoping to spend the night in Roncesvalles.I don't remember reading that they were taking the Route Napoleon. Maybe they set off to go through Valcarlos, not that it explains much!
There's a well know phenomenon called bending the map which is what I described about making the terrain fit your map.@Wokabaut_Meri
After getting very lost in the Rocky Mountains on one occasion, I carry with me a copy of a short magazine article called, "Mind the trap: Five ways our instincts can fail us." I try to read it and reflect on it every time I am out in the wilderness alone. It is to remind me to think and not just wander on oblivious. Sometimes it helps.
Bewildered is very close to the truth actually. The book Deep Survival that I referred to in my previous post details the physiological and psychological processes that unfold when someone is lost (chapter 9: Bending the Map). Fascinating read.Daniel Boone, the American explorer, when asked if he ever got lost out in the wilderness, replied, "I can't say I was ever lost, but I was once bewildered for about 3 days."
Why would they have to pay the rescue? I thought you only had to pay if you left in Winter when the road is closed? Not that I agree with thar rule: if you get on trouble because you don't listen to advice, I say pay up.I hope they have an insurance. If not, I'm afraid they'll have to pay the rescue.
Why would they have to pay the rescue? I thought you only had to pay if you left in Winter when the road is closed? Not that I agree with thar rule: if you get on trouble because you don't listen to advice, I say pay up.
I followed the Route Napoleon to Roncesvalles with no difficulty last fall. It was extremely well marked. But the fact remains that I had intended to take the alternate route through Ibaneta and I never saw any sign of it. I followed a couple of walkers down a marked steep hill and into the forest. No, I had no particular difficulty with that route and arrived in due time in Roncesvalles. But it was not my intention. I am saying this because there seems to be a lot of anger and ridicule against these British pilgrims. Anyone who thinks that it is stupid and irresponsible to get lost is welcome to redirect some of it at me. No one gets lost on purpose. They go on making decisions as best they can or continuing on the route that they think is the right one, until they know it isn't but can no longer continue. Route finding is a gift for some, a challenge for others, myself among them. Show a little compassion and understanding to two people who survived a difficult situation.
We human beings make good choices and bad choices and deal with the consequences of those choices and hopefully learn from them.
- Good decisions come from experience.
- Experience comes from bad decisions.
I had a similar experience on the San Olav this March. Because I have a good natural sense of direction, it was a new experience--but I did exactly that: taking what I could see with my eyes and arranging it so that it looked like a landmark on a map that I had downloaded onto my phone. I had always thought "I would never do that." Now I know better. The deluded mind can be very sneaky.I agree that no-one gets lost on purpose and even though it is a well marked route we don't know much about the two unfortunate souls.
Humans are funny creatures when lost. We actually rearrange the map in our hands to suit the perceived landscape. I'd read about it and made many of the same comments as this thread. And then I found myself lost.
Our experience did enable us to stop, take stock and retrace our steps and then my Eureka! moment got us literally back on track. But it was a sobering lesson in just how easily this happens.
@Albertagirl, do you have a link to this? I'd enjoy reading it.@Wokabaut_Meri
After getting very lost in the Rocky Mountains on one occasion, I carry with me a copy of a short magazine article called, "Mind the trap: Five ways our instincts can fail us." I try to read it and reflect on it every time I am out in the wilderness alone. It is to remind me to think and not just wander on oblivious. Sometimes it helps.
It's interesting to watch the mind when at a point to backtrack or not. Several times this March I found that it was often simple laziness that was saying, "What the heck...I don't want to turn around after going all this way...." Fortunately, the only time I listened to that thought it all came out OK. But it might not have done.There's a well know phenomenon called bending the map
.... It was the emphasis in the book on people NOT backtracking when they're lost that made us do exactly that.
I'm finding this thread instructive and very interesting--nothing to do with the hapless peregrinos in question (if they were that), but more because it shines the light on our universal tendency to sometimes rationalize stupid mistakes, and because I find I'm reflecting a lot on my own experience of being off track and have to admit my own tendencies to mess up. It's not necessarily good news, but always a good thing to be able to see.Years ago I used to say that intelligence was the ability to solve a problem but now I add that it is first knowing that you have (or will have) a problem.
@Viranani@Albertagirl, do you have a link to this? I'd enjoy reading it.
Wow, thank you, @Albertagirl! I'm probably not the only one who'd benefit from reading this (I googled the title and got many possibilities--most about life on the business realm. Hmm. Not quite.@Viranani
I have managed to scan the article, which is just paper torn out of a magazine, but I have no idea how to attach it. I could probably attach the files to an email, but that is about my capacity.
@Albertagirl if you can take a photo - or several if necessary - of the article and upload that I'll be able to convert into text and post it back up here as a pdf.Wow, thank you, @Albertagirl! I'm probably not the only one who'd benefit from reading this (I googled the title and got many possibilities--most about life on the business realm. Hmm. Not quite.)
have you tried the button on the bottom right of the message screen that says 'upload a file'?
If you do that you'll get a file directory menu...if you can figure out where the file saved to just click on that and it should attach here. Otherwise, if you don't meet with success, send them to me and I can try posting them (I'll send you a PM with my email).
@Albertagirl if you can take a photo - or several if necessary - of the article and upload that I'll be able to convert into text and post it back up here as a pdf.
Albertagirl very kindly sent me the scanned version--a good a thing for all of us to read--@Viranani
I have managed to scan the article, which is just paper torn out of a magazine, but I have no idea how to attach it. I could probably attach the files to an email, but that is about my capacity.
Great article. Thank you both for your efforts in posting it here.
One last comment on our errant pilgrims... I'm sure that if we review our own exploits most would be able to recall one adventure that could have ended in disaster but didn'tI can recount several!
We can only learn from this extraordinary account and benefit other prospective pilgrims if we know all or most of the facts. At the moment we don't.
I would hope that if our two newly found pilgrims came across our forum that they would feel the welcome and support so many of us have benefitted from here.
And if they do, wouldn't helping them over the disappointment of their first disastrous attempt and equipping them for a future Camino be worthy of our virtual albergue? It's what any of us would do if we met a pilgrim in need along the Way.
[/END RANT]
Meri, yes...totally, 100% right on--that wasn't a rant so much as a call for a collective re-set. Hopefully we can all use this pathetic example as an opportunity to look at our own propensity to mess up spectacularly and to learn from that, rather than resorting to ridicule. @Nuala, you put your finger on it--somehow making fun is more fun than doing that. Spoken as one who posted a not so kind response.One last comment on our errant pilgrims... I'm sure that if we review our own exploits most would be able to recall one adventure that could have ended in disaster but didn'tI can recount several!
We can only learn from this extraordinary account and benefit other prospective pilgrims if we know all or most of the facts. At the moment we don't.
I would hope that if our two newly found pilgrims came across our forum that they would feel the welcome and support so many of us have benefitted from here.
And if they do, wouldn't helping them over the disappointment of their first disastrous attempt and equipping them for a future Camino be worthy of our virtual albergue? It's what any of us would do if we met a pilgrim in need along the Way.
[/END RANT]
@Pabloke, reading articles after the two pilgrims got stranded last winter about what they should pay. In their case, because they disobeyed the rules and got on the road when it was closed, they got charged, but even then there were rescue organisations who were against them being charged because they consider their work as a service.
Well, this is probablye the matter of another thread, but anyway.
There has been some discussion in Spain about the relatively new practice of demanding a pay for mountain rescues. Between extreme positions there is a middle ground that apparently is the usual practice: the rescue service will be exacted when a person has showed “manifest recklessness”. Problem is, the definition may be a relative and subjective thing.
The alternative, probably, is a standard modern practice: an insurance.
In Spain, the affiliation to some trekking associations includes a not very expensive insurance covering mountain rescue (for example
http://www.fedme.es/index.php?mmod=staticContent&IDf=96
I don’t know it it is available for non residents, but I would not object if the Pilgrim's Bureau in SJPP starts to recommend (or demands) a short insurance amount just for this stage.
Considering that rescue operations are not so common, I guess this could be affordable.
Evidently, there are practical problems, as the binational aspect (but you could have probably noticed that the firemen of Burguete routinely rescue people in the French side, without jurisdictional entanglements).
Actually I was right with you, and trying to get down to that stream, when I realized that I had put myself in an impossible situation: a 3-m cliff going in the upstream direction, and a 200-m cliff going downstream. Needed a boat! And fortunately I had phone reception. So the Czechs were lovely people to provide a rescue team....This is the moment to come back to the paved road, look for the first farm or village in sight, follow a stream down the valley...
I'm with you on that one! My 'rant' post* was done because often after such a spectacular (mis)adventure we don't get to find out what happened and therefore don't learn from their unfortunate experience.The one thing I keep wondering about (and will, most likely, never know the answer to) is what did they do during those five days. Even if you discount the lost and found days, there are still three full days they had available! What did they do during that 72h - wandering aimlessly around? Waiting for a mystic guide to turn up? Sit by the wayside and enjoy the sunshine? I know, futile to ask, but just can't help myself ...
SY
Not sure exactly what you mean by that.How very English!
It's made the UK newspapers too:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/17/british-pair-lost-for-five-days-on-pilgrimage-in-spain
...the article makes it clear that we all have boundless potential for screwing up, and how.
My thoughts exactly - if the phone still had battery life I want one of those!!I'm amazed that after five days their cell phone still had battery power...
And half the population has below average IQ! But over 95% of them would not be considered to have an intellectual disability and the majority would be seen as perfectly normal members of society.... did you know that one third of the human population have an IQ below 85?
I say no more .......
Thank you to @Anemone del Camino and @billmclaughlin for confirming that suroeste means SW. It's just that SE would make a lot more sense when looking at the map.
. Brilliant description! Gave me a few flashbacks .
I've been wondering about this. That Friday night was one of the two nights where you could expect to see plenty of shootings stars (peak of the Perseid meteor stream). It was a clear night in the South of France and the Pyrenees. I wasn't there but I checked the Meteo France map and wished I was there. It would make sense to start late in the afternoon in this case. You would reach the top of the mountain just at the right time.
The Telegraph says that the two people are in their fifties.
Agreed on your first point, although it takes some physical abilities to complete a Camino.@compliance51 I am not sure that pointing out their physical shape is in the spirit of this forum.
What intrigues me is why they took 5 days to call for help. Maybe they were actually enjoying themselves? Maybe they played shepherd and shepherdess in that idyllic little shack?
Shack??@compliance51 I am not sure that pointing out their physical shape is in the spirit of this forum.
What intrigues me is why they took 5 days to call for help. Maybe they were actually enjoying themselves? Maybe they played shepherd and shepherdess in that idyllic little shack?
Admittedly, The Pilgrimage was first published in 1987, so the Camino would have barely been known then... He did it in old sneakers and took a sword.I wonder if they were following Paulo Coelho's route? In his book, The Pilgrimage, he leaves St Jean and meets his mysterious guide, Petrus. Together they walk the Camino in the Pyrenees for a week, never meeting another person. They eat only fish and fruits of the mountains, and he's cold even though it's high summer. On the seventh day he spots Roncesvalles below him. But then his guide reveals they've been crossing and recrossing the same 17km for 7 days, which they could have done in one. For Coelho it's a painful lesson in learning to pay attention to your path, instead of only your goal.
While reading, having done that walk, I could only wonder how did they not meet anyone in a week, a pilgrim or one of the many farmers tooling around in pickups?
Perhaps the British pair were seeking a similar enlightenment, and didn't want to spoil it by needing a rescue...
Agreed on your first point, although it takes some physical abilities to complete a Camino.
About enjoying oneself in a shepherd's hut: Of course, but not to the point that one must call for rescue assistance, perhaps?
One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far: Triggering a rescue operation that also puts the lives/health of the rescuers at danger.
@alexwalker
I suppose that I and others consider a summer rescue in good weather as necessary, in the circumstances, but not dangerous to the rescuers.
Admittedly, The Pilgrimage was first published in 1987, so the Camino would have barely been known then... He did it in old sneakers and took a sword.
Awwww, geeeeee S. You mean all that stuff about Templars and black dogs and swords was made up??@FelixBC I seriously doubt that Paulo Coelho did the Camino on foot in 1987 ;-) It is a tale, a fiction story, not a travel memoir. Buen Camino, SY
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