Valcarlos route : some practical questions, please

[jldelta]

Good morning.

If the French trains run on time, I will arrive in SJPP from Amsterdam at 18.18 this coming Wednesday evening 22/3. I will seek a bed in the municipal auberge. Day 1 is to Valcarlos only, as I ease this 71 year old mammal into the long walk.

Q1: As the walk to Valcarlos seems unlikely to take more than 3 hours, is there any point setting off before noon - it seems I might as well explore St Jean & enjoy a mid-morning brunch before leaving? I fear that if I set off at 0700 and arrive in Valcarlos well before noon, I will be unable to resist heading straight onwards to Roncesvalles, which is not the plan.

Q2: any recommendations for an early lunch cafe/whatever in St Jean?

Q3: going forwards, if walking 5 -7 hours per day at this time of year & when in reasonable weather, is there any point leaving early, ie. before say 0800, when the route is not very crowded (with the possible exception of Holy Week) and the afternoon temperatures not high enough to warrant avoiding ?

Lastly, thank-you SO much to everyone on this forum for the simply huge amount of very helpful information. I feel well-prepared and am looking forward to taking the first steps, and so curious to see how the body responds to the challenge.

 

[mspath]

jldelta,
Since the walk to Valcarlos is the first day of your new camino it may take you longer than you anticipate.

For more information/tips on walking the historic Valcarlos route see this earlier post. That is the route I always followed whatever the season.

The municipal albergue in Valcarlos is a fine stop with 24 bunks and accepts reservations.

Do be aware that there are NO services or supply stops between Valcarlos and Roncesvalles. Be sure to carry trail snacks and water for your second day.

Good luck with your plans and Buen camino!

 

[VNwalking]

Q1:

Good idea.
I left SJPP at about 8 and got to Valcarlos well before noon. There is definitely no hurry!

Q2

Not a restaurant suggestion, but I ate very well grazing at the weekly market. And got food for the next day, too. So if you're there on the right day it's worth checking out.

Q3:

No. Even Easter week. But people will.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Q1: No need to start early, unless you're as slow as I was on my first Camino (started early in the dark, arrived in Valcarlos ~2/3pm, totally exhausted ). If you're reasonably fast you can take your time: have a nice breakfast, and then slowly start walking. You could even stop inbetween and buy some snacks at the border-shopping-center (before Arnéguy). Then have coffee/lunch in Valcarlos, too, when you arrive, and do some shopping for snacks for the next day, wash your clothes, take a shower, have dinner... and voila, it's already time to sleep!

Q2: Wherever there is a seat and a coffee! In summer/good weather picnic at the river is very nice.

Q3: There is a point in leaving early if you like to walk early. I enjoy walking into the sunrise, and I also prefer to have walked a few kms before having breakfast/first coffee. If you walk only a few kms/day without hurry, you'll have time to stop at almost every bar/café along the way for hot/cold drinks and snacks, or you can even take a nap somewhere under a tree or on a bench midday. Talk to the cows, pet a cat, smalltalk with locals and/or other pilgrims... enjoy the views... smell the roses... that way it can still take all day to walk "only" 15 or 20 kms, even if you start walking in the dark!

If you prefer to start later, then just sleep longer, have a big breakfast ect. It's all fine .

Buen Camino!

 

[John Sikora]

You are right. The first day is very easy. The second day not so much. The climb up before descending into Roncesvalles is quite steep (but beautiful). So be prepared.

 

[Chizuru]

We walked to Valcarlos on the first day and it took a lot longer than the 11km suggested it would. There are some steep bits that our newbie bodies struggled slowly up, especially that last push into town.
We stopped for a long sangria at a pretty cafe/bar in Arneguy overlooking the stream. There are some shops in Valcarlos that sell ham and other small goods which you will need the next day for lunch as there are no shops between Valcarlos and Ronscavalles. You can certainly have a leisurely start to your day though as you won't have the heat to contend with as we did in September!

 

[mattythedog]

Good morning.

If the French trains run on time, I will arrive in SJPP from Amsterdam at 18.18 this coming Wednesday evening 22/3. I will seek a bed in the municipal auberge. Day 1 is to Valcarlos only, as I ease this 71 year old mammal into the long walk.

Q1: As the walk to Valcarlos seems unlikely to take more than 3 hours, is there any point setting off before noon - it seems I might as well explore St Jean & enjoy a mid-morning brunch before leaving? I fear that if I set off at 0700 and arrive in Valcarlos well before noon, I will be unable to resist heading straight onwards to Roncesvalles, which is not the plan.

Q2: any recommendations for an early lunch cafe/whatever in St Jean?

Q3: going forwards, if walking 5 -7 hours per day at this time of year & when in reasonable weather, is there any point leaving early, ie. before say 0800, when the route is not very crowded (with the possible exception of Holy Week) and the afternoon temperatures not high enough to warrant avoiding ?

Lastly, thank-you SO much to everyone on this forum for the simply huge amount of very helpful information. I feel well-prepared and am looking forward to taking the first steps, and so curious to see how the body responds to the challenge.

No point leaving before noon. April last year I arrived St. Jean about 1500 after traveling all night and day from US. I got passport stamped in Pilgrim's office, left SJPP about 1530, took a long break in Arneguy before the last bit of trekking to Valcarlos, and still got there around 1800. Plenty of time to explore the village, before finding and settling into the albergue. I think I had to wait until about 2030 for the pilgrim meal at one of the local bar/restaurants, but the bartender gave me multiple free shots of orujo and other liqueurs while waiting. Gotta love the Camino! There were other restaurant/supermarket/bar options for earlier sustenance.

 

[jldelta]

Thanks everyone

Q4: Any breakfast possibilities in Valcarlos around 0800 or is it cafe con leche + brioche in bar, and self-made sandwich from shop for en route sustenance & off one goes ?

Staying at municipal albergue. Will probably skip 3 course pilgrim dinner if it doesn't start till 20.30 or later (I know meals are late in Spain: I selected the "Meal at 19.00" option for Roncesvalles).

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Q4: Any breakfast possibilities in Valcarlos around 0800 or is it cafe con leche + brioche in bar, and self-made sandwich from shop for en route sustenance & off one goes ?

I think this may be the only place.

Benta Ardandegia S L
+34 948 79 60 02

Benta Ardandegia S L · Calle Elizaldea, 15, 31660 Valcarlos, Navarra, Spain

★★★★☆ · Restaurant

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Botaivica]

Thanks everyone

Q4: Any breakfast possibilities in Valcarlos around 0800 or is it cafe con leche + brioche in bar, and self-made sandwich from shop for en route sustenance & off one goes ?

Staying at municipal albergue. Will probably skip 3 course pilgrim dinner if it doesn't start till 20.30 or later (I know meals are late in Spain: I selected the "Meal at 19.00" option for Roncesvalles).

Hi jldelta,
If you stay in a municipal albergue, breakfast is included in the price. And dinner in the restaurant/supermercado can be before 19:00.

Buen Camino

 

[mattythedog]

Hi jldelta,
If you stay in a municipal albergue, breakfast is included in the price. And dinner in the restaurant/supermercado can be before 19:00.

Buen Camino

I was in the municipal April last year, and they made no mention of breakfast included, and no evidence thereof when I got up at 0600. A nice French couple, he 79 and she 77 shared banana, cheese and bread with me, although I had several granola bars I keep for such occasions. I saw nothing open in the village when I left about 0700

 

[jimmyc]

Good morning.

If the French trains run on time, I will arrive in SJPP from Amsterdam at 18.18 this coming Wednesday evening 22/3. I will seek a bed in the municipal auberge. Day 1 is to Valcarlos only, as I ease this 71 year old mammal into the long walk.

Q1: As the walk to Valcarlos seems unlikely to take more than 3 hours, is there any point setting off before noon - it seems I might as well explore St Jean & enjoy a mid-morning brunch before leaving? I fear that if I set off at 0700 and arrive in Valcarlos well before noon, I will be unable to resist heading straight onwards to Roncesvalles, which is not the plan.

Q2: any recommendations for an early lunch cafe/whatever in St Jean?

Q3: going forwards, if walking 5 -7 hours per day at this time of year & when in reasonable weather, is there any point leaving early, ie. before say 0800, when the route is not very crowded (with the possible exception of Holy Week) and the afternoon temperatures not high enough to warrant avoiding ?

Lastly, thank-you SO much to everyone on this forum for the simply huge amount of very helpful information. I feel well-prepared and am looking forward to taking the first steps, and so curious to see how the body responds to the challenge.

I made the mistake of leaving SJPP early and arrived in Valcarlos before lunch. Because it was so early I decided to go on to Roncesvalles which was a big mistake. I was 75 at the time and I was really exhausted at the end of the day.
If I ever walked the route again I would certainly stay in Valcarlos.

 

[trecile]

If you stay in a municipal albergue, breakfast is included in the price. And dinner in the restaurant/supermercado can be before 19:00.

This isn't true of all, or probably most municipal albergues.

I was in the municipal April last year, and they made no mention of breakfast included, and no evidence thereof when I got up at 0600. A nice French couple, he 79 and she 77 shared banana, cheese and bread with me, although I had several granola bars I keep for such occasions. I saw nothing open in the village when I left about 0700

I just looked at the Gronze listing for the Valcarlos albergue. It indicates that breakfast is available for a fee, but one of the reviews mentions that it is included.

 

[Chizuru]

We were booked to stay one end of the town and our booking agent had our dinner booked Xaindu at the other, far end of town, about 500m away. The restaurant didn't open until after 8:00pm but it was a very good dinner, but there was a restaurant in the middle of town that was open all day, 9-9, that we would have preferred to eat at. That is the problem with going with a company (Camino Ways). You have prepaid your meals. We were also to have our breakfast at the same place so turned up at 8:00am opening time and waited for 30 minutes but they didn't open so we had a brunch of tinned Navarre asparagus, ham, truffle cheese, tomato and boiled egg on bread all purchased from the excellent little shop in Valcarlos. Looking at Google, there is nothing much open before 9:00am and all are closed on Mondays.

 

[trecile]

That is the problem with going with a company (Camino Ways). You have prepaid your meals.

I met a woman last year on the Portuguese Camino who had booked through a company, and had included all of her dinners. She ended up not using many of the dinners as she preferred to eat with other pilgrims. I would recommend that those planning to use a company to not take the dinner option.

 

[Chizuru]

I met a woman last year on the Portuguese Camino who had booked through a company, and had included all of her dinners. She ended up not using many of the dinners as she preferred to eat with other pilgrims. I would recommend that those planning to use a company to not take the dinner option.

We found that for most of the booked dinners, there were other pilgrims eating at the same place, some of who were with our company or another company or solo pilgrims, and we would all join together for dinner. We became a big happy Camino family.

 

[trecile]

We found that for most of the booked dinners, there were other pilgrims eating at the same place, some of who were with our company or another company or solo pilgrims, and we would all join together for dinner. We became a big happy Camino family.

That makes sense on the Francés.
This was on the Portuguese Camino south of Porto, so there weren't a lot of other pilgrims.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Regarding dinner: the Valcarlos albergue had a nice kitchen, but I'm not sure that's still the case after covid?

But generally, often there's a kitchen in the albergues, and therefore also the option of teaming up with other pilgrims and cooking your own dinner, at whatever time you prefer For me those were the best "pilgrim menus". A good way to get to know the other pilgrims, too.

Same with breakfast. If you went grocerie shopping the evening before, you can prepare your breakfast just the way you like it at your preferred time as long as there's at least a basic kitchen (the accommodation list you get in St. Jean should include that information).

 

[jldelta]

I made the mistake of leaving SJPP early and arrived in Valcarlos before lunch. Because it was so early I decided to go on to Roncesvalles which was a big mistake. I was 75 at the time and I was really exhausted at the end of the day.
If I ever walked the route again I would certainly stay in Valcarlos.

Thanks for posting @jimmyc : this is exactly what I wish to avoid / my inner Gung-Ho, keep going at all costs, attitude. I know I must start slow.

 

[dougfitz]

I walked this with my wife in 2016, and I kept a GPS track. We had a couple of excursions away from the route that took a little time to resolve, and might have added around a km to the distance. We left SJPP about 0830, and were at the municipal albergue just before 1315. Looking at the track, we slowed down significantly along the steeper undulating sections, dropping from around 5 km/hr to 2 km/hr or less. This dropped our overall average for the morning to 3 km/hr.

The undulating terrain is also deceptive. While there is only about 150m of elevation difference between SJPP and Valcarlos, I recorded 465 m of climb (and 313 m of descent). Depending on how you calculate the distance effect of climb, that is at least another 3.5 km of flat walking to consider in your timing calculations. Noting that the steeper grades were between 10% and 15% on average, this would be the lower end of any adjustment I would make.

Perhaps you could do this in under three hours, but I would recommend you base your time estimates on a equivalent flat distance of 15 km to give yourself some buffer.

 

[jldelta]

I walked this with my wife in 2016, and I kept a GPS track. We had a couple of excursions away from the route that took a little time to resolve, and might have added around a km to the distance. We left SJPP about 0830, and were at the municipal albergue just before 1315. Looking at the track, we slowed down significantly along the steeper undulating sections, dropping from around 5 km/hr to 2 km/hr or less. This dropped our overall average for the morning to 3 km/hr.

The undulating terrain is also deceptive. While there is only about 150m of elevation difference between SJPP and Valcarlos, I recorded 465 m of climb (and 313 m of descent). Depending on how you calculate the distance effect of climb, that is at least another 3.5 km of flat walking to consider in your timing calculations. Noting that the steeper grades were between 10% and 15% on average, this would be the lower end of any adjustment I would make.

Perhaps you could do this in under three hours, but I would recommend you base your time estimates on a equivalent flat distance of 15 km to give yourself some buffer.

VERY useful information, thank-you: my flat 20km training walks here in NL have taken 4 hours, with the final few km clearly slowing, so with a coffee stop in Arneguy, I hope 4 hours max will be realistic and the following day an hour+ longer than that up to Roncesvalles (may I please ask how long that leg took you and your wife?). My summer Alpine hiking technique is generally to just keep going up steeper terrain, even if I slow right down to a 2kph crawl (which I often do!). I prefer not to stop & "rest", unless it's for food/water.

 

[Chizuru]

It will take you much longer than an hour to get to Roncesvalles, or am I misunderstanding you and you mean 5 hours? We arrived at Roncesvalles just as they were opening the gite to let the afternoon arrivals in. This gave us plenty of time to explore the fascinating religious complex of the church, cloisters, museum, etc.

 

[jldelta]

It will take you much longer than an hour to get to Roncesvalles, or am I misunderstanding you and you mean 5 hours? We arrived at Roncesvalles just as they were opening the gite to let the afternoon arrivals in. This gave us plenty of time to explore the fascinating religious complex of the church, cloisters, museum, etc.

Yes, indeed, 5 hours !

(have edited original to clarify - thanks for the catch )

 

[Texas Walker]

We were booked to stay one end of the town and our booking agent had our dinner booked Xaindu at the other, far end of town, about 500m away. The restaurant didn't open until after 8:00pm but it was a very good dinner, but there was a restaurant in the middle of town that was open all day, 9-9, that we would have preferred to eat at. That is the problem with going with a company (Camino Ways). You have prepaid your meals. We were also to have our breakfast at the same place so turned up at 8:00am opening time and waited for 30 minutes but they didn't open so we had a brunch of tinned Navarre asparagus, ham, truffle cheese, tomato and boiled egg on bread all purchased from the excellent little shop in Valcarlos. Looking at Google, there is nothing much open before 9:00am and all are closed on Mondays.

While we have never gone with a tour agency on the Camino, we did go with our parish to Israel in 2019, an all-included plan, and I missed having opportunities to go to little eat joints and try the local stuff. (Even though the midday meal was always the local stuff as a group.) Walking the Camino has spoiled us? We love the freedom of being able to stop when we're ready and patronize the little coffee shops/bars along the way. Even though I make an itinerary in advance, we never treat it as a pair of handcuffs, but instead use it to inform us while staying open to the serendipity of St. James's path.

BC to all