Jennifer from Colorado
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 23 May (2016)
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A nice reminder, but hardly a new requirement, and not limited to France or Spain. It applies to most countries. While it applies on entry, the airlines have a vested interest in enforcing it on departure. They don't want to be faced with returning you to your port of departure if you are refused entry.So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure!
A nice reminder, but hardly a new requirement, and not limited to France or Spain. It applies to most countries. While it applies on entry, the airlines have a vested interest in enforcing it on departure. They don't want to be faced with returning you to your port of departure if you are refused entry.
This is an increased requirement in France, which used to be four months.A nice reminder, but hardly a new requirement, and not limited to France or Spain. It applies to most countries. While it applies on entry, the airlines have a vested interest in enforcing it on departure. They don't want to be faced with returning you to your port of departure if you are refused entry.
Anemone, not "always." Often, but definitely not "always."Yup, not new. Always has to be ok for 6 months after.
But we are not talking about the Zanzibar Way, are we?Anemone, not "always." Often, but definitely not "always."
Every country has their own requirements - France has just upped theirs from 4 to 6 months.
Central America, and most of South America - they only require it to be active the day you enter.
Cuba now requires 6 months, but Japan only requires length of stay.
My experience is that it is one single page (one side) but remember that many immigration officials, in some countries particularly third world ones, seem to make up rules as they go along and, since they make the decisions about entry or non-entry, always try to err on the side of caution.A question, does anyone know?
The empty 'full page': does that mean front and back sides both, or is only one side necessary?
Time for additional pages (if that service is still available) or a new passport. Don't put yourself in the position where one quibbling immigration official can ruin your trip.A question, does anyone know?
The empty 'full page': does that mean front and back sides both, or is only one side necessary?
Kitsambler, I just checked. It is no longer possible to get additional pages:Time for additional pages (if that service is still available) or a new passport. Don't put yourself in the position where one quibbling immigration official can ruin your trip.
If you are travelling with your 'next of kin' it is also good to add in a further name who is still in your home country. Also to put ICE (In case of Emergency) numbers into your phone.Another thing travellers often overlook is the the page in your passport where you 'pencil' in your emergency contact information.
A bit off topic but related to the above post: I will be walking the Madrid Camino, training to Santiago to spend a few days (during Fiesta de la AcunsiónIf you are travelling with your 'next of kin' it is also good to add in a further name who is still in your home country. Also to put ICE (In case of Emergency) numbers into your phone.
Our passports will be going for renewal as soon as we get back from Spain this year, that will give the passport office plenty of time to process them before next year. If you are thinking about driving at all check your driving licence too and for some, depending on where you are coming from, you will also need and international permit.
Glad that, so far as we can see, all our paper work is in order for this year, especially the national passports.
WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
What a great service for a club to offer.Our Colorado Front Range chapter of the APOC often has a color copier and laminating machine at chapter events, and makes the copy for a small donativo.
That is a good tip! I have a color copier and laminating machine so I just fixed me a copy and will keep it with my pilgrim's passport. What a great idea....thank you.Since most of us keep the passport in a secure place once we clear customs at the entry point into Spain or France or whatever, it can be a hassle to dig your passport out of its secure place every day. Consider making a color copy of the first page -- the page with your photo and vital statistics -- and laminate that single page copy. That's all that's need to check into a hotel or albergue, and you can keep it right in the fold of your credential/pilgrim's passport so it's there when you check in and get your sello.
A bit off topic but related to the above post: I will be walking the Madrid Camino, training to Santiago to spend a few days (during Fiesta de la Acunsión), then renting a car for a weeklong road trip. If you plan on driving in Spain, according to the US Dept. of State website, US citizens are required to have an international driver's permit to drive in Spain.
A bit off topic but related to the above post: I will be walking the Madrid Camino, training to Santiago to spend a few days (during Fiesta de la Acunsión), then renting a car for a weeklong road trip. If you plan on driving in Spain, according to the US Dept. of State website, US citizens are required to have an international driver's permit to drive in Spain.
We use our Australian driver's license and there is no problem. Same in France. Even though theoretically you need an international license.
Last year the passport needed to be good for three months for Germany. Six months is an increase. Good to know.
Hola Jen - glad you read your forum pages closely - but you would be surprised how many times this happens to ordinary tourist, especially with people booking on-line so much these days. (In the old days your travel agent usually had a record of the info page from your passport).I had a near catastrophe just weeks before launching for my 2016 Camino, so I hope someone else can learn from my near-error. WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
My passport was set to expire on 26 July 2016, but since I was launching my Camino on the 16th of May 2016, I expected to be back on American terra firma NLT than 6 July - lots of wiggle room, eh? NOT!! So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure! Buen Camino (con seis meses más)!!!
I love these smart tricks - thank you and will certainly be doing thisEvery time you check into an albergue or hotel, they ask to see your national passport (at least they're supposed to) and make a note of your passport number. Since most of us keep the passport in a secure place once we clear customs at the entry point into Spain or France or whatever, it can be a hassle to dig your passport out of its secure place every day. Consider making a color copy of the first page -- the page with your photo and vital statistics -- and laminate that single page copy. That's all that's need to check into a hotel or albergue, and you can keep it right in the fold of your credential/pilgrim's passport so it's there when you check in and get your sello. Our Colorado Front Range chapter of the APOC often has a color copier and laminating machine at chapter events, and makes the copy for a small donativo.
I love these smart tricks - thank you and will certainly be doing this
Buen camino
Unfortunately many accommodations throughout western Europe now do NOT accept any copy of your national passport! Only the real passport is valid.
My experience is the same as Kanga's. I have both bought cars in Spain and Portugal and rented numerous cars in both countries and have never used anything other than my US drivers license. In fact, I was told a couple of years ago by an American friend who bought one of those "international licenses" issued by the American Automobile Association, that the Portuguese car rental place where she went to pick up her car at the Lisbon airport wanted to see her real US license before they would give her the car. So I wouldn't rely just on the AAA certificate alone.
The licences both have to be shown if required, the national licence and the IDP. Also the latter is only valid if the national licence is still valid. We think that UK citizens now maybe need one as we no longer have paper counterparts to the photocard. Progress?Our licenses have a secure photo ID, which the international license does not have.
We have bought ours, it is not worth risking a fine or problems with our car.DRIVING LICENCES British citizens NOT in possession of a licence that conforms to the EU three part printed pink document will require an international driving licence when driving in Spain.
That is an enforcement which has been around for some years. Some countries such as China for sure. Other countries don't require it. I just don't get why there is an expiration date if it's not honored.I had a near catastrophe just weeks before launching for my 2016 Camino, so I hope someone else can learn from my near-error.
WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
My passport was set to expire on 26 July 2016, but since I was launching my Camino on the 16th of May 2016, I expected to be back on American terra firma NLT than 6 July - lots of wiggle room, eh? NOT!!
I read on another blog about a pilgrim-to-be who was denied a boarding pass from United to begin her pilgrimage because Spain and France BOTH now require a minimum of six months on her passport from date of her entry into France. Her trip was completely ruined.
I gasped and immediately fled to my Denver Passport office and got a new one just in time.
So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure!
Buen Camino (con seis meses más)!!!
Oh dear well I will still do it and if they ask for the real thing then I can dig it out from the pits if my bag - thanks to all for their interesting inputUnfortunately many accommodations throughout western Europe now do NOT accept any copy of your national passport! Only the real passport is valid.
Gene...I know the FRP is a really large group, but I attend ALL your functions!!!This won't apply to many on the Camino but there is also a limit to the length of one's stay there. There is this thing called the Schengen Area — more or less, but not quite the European Union countries — within which a U.S. passport holder does not need a visa but within which there is a limit of 3 months stay within any sliding 6 month period.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/schengen-fact-sheet.html#FAQ
(Jennifer, being from Colorado, you should look at:
http://www.americanpilgrims.org/colorado-front-range-chapter
I did this last year - the color copy, not laminated, carried in my Credencial. Worked every place except a couple of hostals with the new electronic strip reader; there I naturally had to produce the original.That is a good tip! I have a color copier and laminating machine so I just fixed me a copy and will keep it with my pilgrim's passport. What a great idea....thank you.
Electronic strip readers in albergues! Wow, that is certainly giving the Camino a modern twist.I did this last year - the color copy, not laminated, carried in my Credencial. Worked every place except a couple of hostals with the new electronic strip reader; there I naturally had to produce the original.
A nice reminder, but hardly a new requirement, and not limited to France or Spain. It applies to most countries. While it applies on entry, the airlines have a vested interest in enforcing it on departure. They don't want to be faced with returning you to your port of departure if you are refused entry.
EU citizens use the National Identity Card which is laminated.
Comment on the UK - if BRITEX happens it will be a real sh*t fight as to what documents EU people will need to enter UK???Just for clarity, most do but not Denmark, Iceland, Norway and UK citizens. Norway is planning to do so from 2017.
For USA citizens, always ask for extra pages when you get a passport or renew. I don't believe there is an extra charge, but you have to ask. Then you get double the pages. But as said above, you can no longer add pages.Kitsambler, I just checked. It is no longer possible to get additional pages:
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/news/visa-pages-no-longer-issued.html
I just checked and it's $30 to get a US passport card, if you already have a passport book. Seems like it might come in handy on the Camino.I have a laminated color copy of the passport page that I have used for the past few years. Always accepted on the Camino and afterward at hotels. Saves wear and tear on passport. You can keep your passport dry and protected in heavy weather
I use the passport card also.
I think the reason it is accepted without question is that EU citizens use the National Identity Card which is laminated. The EU card is smaller than the copy of the passport page but it seems to be accepted as the U.S. version.
It works and you can always dig out the actual passport if you ever run into someone who doesn't accept it.
I don't work for the American Automobile Association, but maybe the US Embassy employee who wrote up that blurb has a relative with a financial interest in that organization. (AAA issues the IDP in the states.) Just thought I'd pass along the info I read (and actually believed). Peregrina2000, you are obviously experienced in the country and have the "real life" information. Thanks.
that's pretty standard worldwideI had a near catastrophe just weeks before launching for my 2016 Camino, so I hope someone else can learn from my near-error.
WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
My passport was set to expire on 26 July 2016, but since I was launching my Camino on the 16th of May 2016, I expected to be back on American terra firma NLT than 6 July - lots of wiggle room, eh? NOT!!
I read on another blog about a pilgrim-to-be who was denied a boarding pass from United to begin her pilgrimage because Spain and France BOTH now require a minimum of six months on her passport from date of her entry into France. Her trip was completely ruined.
I gasped and immediately fled to my Denver Passport office and got a new one just in time.
So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure!
Buen Camino (con seis meses más)!!!
Dear All, Must one carry a national (in my case, USA) passport on the Camino? I luckily have friends in Spain where I could leave it, use in to enter & leave the country only. That way I do not have to keep track of it. Hopefully all I need is the credential. Any opinions?I had a near catastrophe just weeks before launching for my 2016 Camino, so I hope someone else can learn from my near-error.
WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
My passport was set to expire on 26 July 2016, but since I was launching my Camino on the 16th of May 2016, I expected to be back on American terra firma NLT than 6 July - lots of wiggle room, eh? NOT!!
I read on another blog about a pilgrim-to-be who was denied a boarding pass from United to begin her pilgrimage because Spain and France BOTH now require a minimum of six months on her passport from date of her entry into France. Her trip was completely ruined.
I gasped and immediately fled to my Denver Passport office and got a new one just in time.
So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure!
Buen Camino (con seis meses más)!!!
Just for clarity, most do but not Denmark, Iceland, Norway and UK citizens. Norway is planning to do so from 2017.
I read on another blog about a pilgrim-to-be who was denied a boarding pass from United to begin her pilgrimage because Spain and France BOTH now require a minimum of six months on her passport from date of her entry into France. Her trip was completely ruined.
If an airline flies a passenger without proper documents (visa, remaining time on passport, etc.) and is refused entry to a country the airline responsible for transporting the passenger back to their point of origin, and can face fines.
I don't agree with this line of thinking. Another way of thinking of this is that the airline is not refusing entry to another country, it is refusing to offer a carriage service to an individual. I am sure that, in different legal systems, there a different interpretations of whether an airline is a common carrier and what rights it might have to refuse to offer its services to individuals, but it seems clear that they can both refuse to carry individuals and certain items of luggage and cargo.This does not change the fact that refusing departure to a passenger from an international port if that passenger has valid travel documents and without grave cause is a violation of International Law. Having a valid passport with only X months remaining in its validity is not a criminal offence.
ExactlyI don't agree with this line of thinking. Another way of thinking of this is that the airline is not refusing entry to another country, it is refusing to offer a carriage service to an individual. I am sure that, in different legal systems, there a different interpretations of whether an airline is a common carrier and what rights it might have to refuse to offer its services to individuals, but it seems clear that they can both refuse to carry individuals and certain items of luggage and cargo.
I don't agree with this line of thinking. Another way of thinking of this is that the airline is not refusing entry to another country, it is refusing to offer a carriage service to an individual. I am sure that, in different legal systems, there a different interpretations of whether an airline is a common carrier and what rights it might have to refuse to offer its services to individuals, but it seems clear that they can both refuse to carry individuals and certain items of luggage and cargo.
My view is that the airline has not refused entry. An individual can make whatever other carriage arrangements they wish and front up at an immigration check point another way.That aspect of things has certainly occurred to me -- nevertheless, whilst I'm unsure about Spanish Law in this detail, refusing entry to France (or purportedly on the "behalf" of France) on such a spurious basis to those with valid travel documents sounds completely illegal, state of emergency notwithstanding. I am vaguely aware that Spain has some stricter entry requirements that can affect those having booked flights either into or out of that country.
I suspect that the 'small print', which you have probably acknowledged that you have read even if that wasn't the case, is part of the carriage contract and establishes a perfectly legal set of clauses about when the service might be refused, changed, withdrawn, etc.hmmmm, and even in the US, it is doubtful that an airline that has sold a carriage service to an individual can then legitimately refuse to provide that service to that individual without grave cause. Just writing down some gratuitous contractual escape clause in small print in every ticket booklet doesn't make it legal.
Yes, exactly. Theory is one thing. But pragmatically? If you want to walk, be prepared to jump through the hoops as the relevant immigration policies require. If you want to challenge the legality of the policies, and want to get turned away on purpose so you can pursue the case in a court of international law, then by all means go ahead. But that's another story altogether.I'm a lawyer but there is no way I would want to argue international law at an immigrations counter - especially if it it is not my own country.
Thank you for posting. I knew this but I am sure there are many new traveler's who are not aware of this. Very useful as a reminder to everyone who just forgot about this requirement.I had a near catastrophe just weeks before launching for my 2016 Camino, so I hope someone else can learn from my near-error.
WATCH THE EXPIRATION DATE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
My passport was set to expire on 26 July 2016, but since I was launching my Camino on the 16th of May 2016, I expected to be back on American terra firma NLT than 6 July - lots of wiggle room, eh? NOT!!
I read on another blog about a pilgrim-to-be who was denied a boarding pass from United to begin her pilgrimage because Spain and France BOTH now require a minimum of six months on her passport from date of her entry into France. Her trip was completely ruined.
I gasped and immediately fled to my Denver Passport office and got a new one just in time.
So, double check your passport and make sure you have that sacrosanct six months before you head off to your airport to begin your adventure!
Buen Camino (con seis meses más)!!!
I'm a lawyer but there is no way I would want to argue international law at an immigrations counter
I take both. I land with the EU one, and come back to Canada wit the Canadian.I hope this question was not already answered. I have an Italian and an American Passport. I don't know which one would be preferred as far as ease of travel goes... or perhaps I shall take both?
Our licenses have a secure photo ID, which the international license does not have.
What country do you want to help you if there is any trouble during your travel? Travel on that one.I hope this question was not already answered. I have an Italian and an American Passport. I don't know which one would be preferred as far as ease of travel goes... or perhaps I shall take both?
I take both. I land with the EU one, and come back to Canada wit the Canadian.
And yes, you would like Britain to help you on that occasion but it absolutely can't, so this is not a valid rule for selecting which passport to use.What country do you want to help you if there is any trouble during you travel?
I think you have chosen to use some pretty extreme examples to rebut what was simple advice to someone who was puzzling over whether to use their US or Italian passport.And yes, you would like Britain to help you on that occasion but it absolutely can't, so this is not a valid rule for selecting which passport to use.
This is a good point. The Australian government advice on this isYou are always supposed to enter the country you have a passport from with that passport.
There is other advice for Australian dual nationals at http://smartraveller.gov.au/guide/Pages/dual-nationals.aspxAll Australians, including dual nationals, should leave and enter Australia on their Australian passport. If you have a passport from another country you can use that for travel once you have left Australia.
This does not change the fact that refusing departure to a passenger from an international port if that passenger has valid travel documents and without grave cause is a violation of International Law.
I must say I am quite confused as to why international law is brought in here. As a fundamental principle, public international law (which presumably is what is being discussed here) only binds States (ie national governments), not individuals or private entities except in very limited circumstances (eg war crimes). In refusing carriage of particular passengers, United is not acting on behalf of any State but is presumably exercising its own rights under its contract of service, which is a matter governed by domestic law.
It is really as simple as @rgutena said: When you buy a ticket, you agree to the airline's Contract of Carriage which is subject to domestic (civil/consumer/contract/etc) law, nothing to do with international law (public or private). Nobody ever reads it but you can easily find it online for major airlines.
You are always supposed to enter the country you have a passport from with that passport. Plus Spain does not recocgnise my Canadian citizenship as it does not allow dual citizenship.
niceNo that's not general - it's an odd Australian requirement - my brother who is a dual citizen had a slight issue with it a few years back. They've never picked me up though I have Aussie citizenship I go back and forth (several times a year) on my New Zealand passport.
Basically you leave a country on the passport you entered it with - but you can swap. So with UK passport - I'd depart NZ customs with my NZ passport (as I have no visa or stamps in my UK one) - check in with he airline with my UK passport (proof of right to arrive in the UK) - enter/exit the UK with my UK one - and then re-enter NZ with my NZ passport. IN other countries I use the passport which costs me the least in Visa fees.
But we are not talking about the Zanzibar Way, are we?
Excellent advice"Check your passport's validity" is reasonable advice. But I'll go further and suggest that you check the data that airlines themselves use when they decide whether to allow you to board:
If the IATA information says that you need a visa (numerous countries), two side-by-side blank pages in your passport (China last time I was there on a multi-visit business visa), a passport that's at least six months old (Nigeria, ditto), a passport with at least six months validity (numerous), or proof of onward travel (numerous countries) then you can expect the check-in agent to deny you a boarding pass if you don't comply. Pointless to argue that you know that the Nigerian border control agent won't care.
Now, perhaps you think it's overkill and you've been to [Enter country name here] many times before. But rules change, and the "things we know for sure that just ain't so," are the things that really get us into trouble.
Couple of years ago I signed up for a sailing trip from Bermuda to Boston. I ignored the information about visa requirements because, why would I need to read them since this would be my umpteenth trip to the USA. Fortunately, someone pointed out to me that arriving at Salem MA on a private yacht was not processed in the same way as entering on a commercial flight to Logan airport ... so I looked into it ... and booked myself an appointment at the US embassy to apply for a visa. (FWIW, the IATA data won't help you with this particular issue because it's for travel with commercial airlines only).
Good news for pilgrims on the Kumano Kodo, though ... Japan will let you in with 1 day validity. (But you'd better run to your embassy to get a new passport same day).
The Airline could also be fined in the process.A nice reminder, but hardly a new requirement, and not limited to France or Spain. It applies to most countries. While it applies on entry, the airlines have a vested interest in enforcing it on departure. They don't want to be faced with returning you to your port of departure if you are refused entry.
The international certificate is intended to be used with your actual drivers license. It essentially facilitates the translation of the information on your driver's license into the language of the country you are driving in.My experience is the same as Kanga's. I have both bought cars in Spain and Portugal and rented numerous cars in both countries and have never used anything other than my US drivers license. In fact, I was told a couple of years ago by an American friend who bought one of those "international licenses" issued by the American Automobile Association, that the Portuguese car rental place where she went to pick up her car at the Lisbon airport wanted to see her real US license before they would give her the car. So I wouldn't rely just on the AAA certificate alone.
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