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I cannot speak to this question, but it urges one more important to me: Why are there tours on the Camino where people move en masse with tourist guides and carry lots of luggage that is transported for them? They reserve up the hostels and escape the primary experience of a pilgrimage. I do not understand using this model of travel on this kind of tour which is historically a "pilgrimage," a unique and solo experience, not the usual group travel tour.Just curious, but interested to know.
On my first camino (2012) they were all known as “albergues”, but I often read books, articles, etc, published before 2012 that refer to them as “refugios”.
When, why, and how did “refugios” become “albergues”?
I can add some dates to this. On my first camino in 2000 they were still called refugios. I think “albergue” may have been starting to creep into the lexicon, but refugio was still the go-to term.
historically a "pilgrimage," a unique and solo experience, not the usual group travel tour
Well, I think that's because we are a diverse lot, in a free society, where not everyone has to conform to a specific mode of behaviour and people are allowed to find happiness in their own way during their leisure time or annual time off from work. Maybe also because the concept of pilgrimage, and that includes the concept of Christian pilgrimage in Europe, is much wider than many imagine, both in the past and in the present. There's also this thing called "cultural route".I cannot speak to this question, but it urges one more important to me: Why are there tours on the Camino where people move en masse with tourist guides and carry lots of luggage that is transported for them?
My first thought when reading this was "This was written by someone who has never read The Canterbury Tales ." For those unfamiliar with the work, written by Geoffrey Chaucer about a pilgrimage just over 600 years ago, it follows a group on pilgrimage to the shrine of St. Thomas Becket in Canturbury. The group of pilgrims (who are riding to Canterbury, not walking and carrying their own luggage) tell each other stories in a sort of contest. Those stories are the "Canterbury Tales". Clearly, pilgrimages have not historically been exclusively "a unique and solo experience".I cannot speak to this question, but it urges one more important to me: Why are there tours on the Camino where people move en masse with tourist guides and carry lots of luggage that is transported for them? They reserve up the hostels and escape the primary experience of a pilgrimage. I do not understand using this model of travel on this kind of tour which is historically a "pilgrimage," a unique and solo experience, not the usual group travel tour.
I think that Refugio Guacelmo was opened in 1991. Which must make it amongst the earliest refugios/albergues still in continuous use on the Frances. "Albergue" was not in common use in 1991. I suppose no one thought it worthwhile to change the name as fashions changed.Guacelmo in Rabanal is still called Refugio Guacelmo, not Albergues Guacelmo.
I think that Refugio Guacelmo was opened in 1991. Which must make it amongst the earliest refugios/albergues still in continuous use on the Frances. "Albergue" was not in common use in 1991. I suppose no one thought it worthwhile to change the name as fashions changed.
In the middle ages they were called "Hospital" or "Hospitales de Peregrinos".
In the middle ages they were called "Hospital" or "Hospitales de Peregrinos".
That’s because some kind pilgrim or one of the hospitaleros (wardens they are called at Guacelmo) had the inspiration to bake something deliciousIs Gaucelmo the refugio with the legendary teatime? That looks more albergue than refugio to me.
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Refugio to me sounds a lot more basic. Like a roof over your head but don't count on much more. Back in the days this was the case too. The German yellow guidebook says that the Rabanal Refugio was one of the first on the Camino to have the incredible luxury of hot running water... only in the late 90s! My, how things change
Not even that occasionally. In one place there was a shower room with three or four shower heads but no doors or partitions - not even a door between the showers and the dorm. Midway through having my shower a young Spanish woman walked in, greeted me politely, hung the towel she had been wearing on a hook and started to wash herself too. Something of a surprise...Then again you did also get to sleep on the odd dirt floor in a converted animal barn with just a haphazard low pressure cold water shower head behind a thin plastic curtain for your modesty ...
Most had running water of some sort in the early 90s -- but Rabanal was one of the only ones before O Cebreiro to have it hot.
But quite a few of the Albergues (for instance) set up in Galicia for the Holy Year 1993 were quite a bit more comfortable then than they are now after the degradations of time ...
Then again you did also get to sleep on the odd dirt floor in a converted animal barn with just a haphazard low pressure cold water shower head behind a thin plastic curtain for your modesty ...
My night in that church attic, the communal dinner, and the prayer service in the choir at night, was the most touching night in many years, I will remember it for a long time.There is an albergue in Granon with the official name of 'Hospital San Juan Bautista'.
About 5 euros, I thinkSo I must ask, in light of today, is there a difference between an albergue and a refúgio??
I don't know if people still do this but I remember when I first walked the Brierley guide and in some other sites that I read broke down the different types of sleeping accommodations. There was a distinction, if I remember correctly between Refugio and Albergue. Is my memory that bad and I am wrong?
The term "refugio" seems to be rarely used now. If I heard it used, I would assume that the most basic accommodation is being referenced, but would not be sure.There was a distinction, if I remember correctly between Refugio and Albergue.
The word "hostel" means different things in different languages, and it is not generally used in the Spanish context. In English, it usually means a multi-bed dormitory accommodation where people pay for use of one bed. In Spain, along the camino, these lodgings are typically called albergues. Albergues cover quite a range - sometimes private rooms are also available; sometimes there are cooking facilities, swimming pools, private rooms, etc., whereas sometimes they are very basic.Hostels (sometimes called Hostals but more often Albergues in Spanish)
erm, historically, pilgrims in fact tended to constitute large groups rather than travelling solo.
"The tales (mostly written in verse, although some are in prose) are presented as part of a story-telling contest by a group of pilgrims as they travel together from London to Canterbury to visit the shrine of Saint Thomas Becket at Canterbury Cathedral."
So my old brain memory is still ok, haha. IThe three most basic types of accommodation are the Refugio, the Hostel (not called that in Spanish), and the Albergue.
It's confusing that the three types blend into each other to a great degree with some rather wide grey zones.
A Refugio (Refuge) can be anything between a hut that you can lay down on the floor or on some very basic bedding (mattress or mattress on something like a metal frame) with no other comforts for your sleep other than what you're carrying on your back, so no running water nor anything else, and little or none of what many today would consider as the most basic accommodations with at least a proper bed and electrics and a shower room and someone at least basically responsible for the place and willing to help. (my first sleeping place last year after crossing into Spain over the Perthus was one of these, and they existed on the Francès back in the 90s)
(that's BTW a good step up from the absolute most basic indoor accommodations which involve garage floors, outside barns, abandoned wooden huts, and so on)
Hostels (sometimes called Hostals but more often Albergues in Spanish) are generally speaking the same as the above but with facilities so that you can cook your own food, or maybe located in the same building as a restaurant, and they provide a cheap but ordinarily acceptable place to sleep, plus better hot water and toilets. They're usually either quite tiny or they have the simplest bunk bed accommodation. Rather uncommon on the Francès, and they're located mostly nowadays on the minor Camino routes inside Spain else outside Spain altogether. They exist mostly in places with very few pilgrims passing through. Quite a few of them do provide facilities so you can make yourself some rudimentary breakfast in the morning, plus somebody who can help at least a little.
Albergues are the whole range between a basic Hostel and a basic Hotel. Bunk beds usually on the Francès, though you can from time to time come across individual beds or even bedrooms. They are anyway the most common type of pilgrim accommodation along the Francès nowadays. It is not uncommon that they will provide dinner for a price, as well as more often a breakfast. They vary in nature a lot more than the other two categories, so they are harder to define. But they do have in common that they try and provide at least some basic degree of comfort.
True, but he probably knew more about the manner of fourteenth century pilgrimages than anyone alive today does. And if the plot device he used was too outlandish and dissimilar to fourteenth century pilgrimages, his audience wouldn't have found it a fine frame to hang a bunch of short stories on. At the risk of being too topical, it is similar to the case in The Decameron. People telling each other stories to while away the time after fleeing from the city to the country to avoid a plague is a fine frame to hang a bunch of short stories on. That doesn't mean people weren't fleeing the cities to avoid the plague.I wouldn't take Chaucer too literally as a historical guide to pilgrimage in his day. He knew a good plot device when he saw one and the idea of putting a disparate bunch of pilgrims together makes a fine frame to hang a bunch of short stories on
I have just seen that Audible are making some of their audiobooks available online for free while schools in the UK are closed. Mostly childrens' books but with a few titles for older listeners too. Included in the offer is an unabridged multi-voice recording of The Canterbury Tales in a modern English translation. I do not know if this is accessible for those outside the UK.True, but he probably knew more about the manner of fourteenth century pilgrimages than anyone alive today does.
Three points in reply. I struggle to see the difference between people who "reserve up the hostels" and people who reserve ahead each day. I tend to walk until I feel like stopping. In any event, as you allude to yourself, these organised groups tend to stay in the better quality inns/hotels rather than the albergues. The Camino is for everyone, whether they want to walk solo or in a group. There is no rule that says you have to walk a pilgrimage on your own. If there was, we would probably never have had the Canterbury Tales. ,I cannot speak to this question, but it urges one more important to me: Why are there tours on the Camino where people move en masse with tourist guides and carry lots of luggage that is transported for them? They reserve up the hostels and escape the primary experience of a pilgrimage. I do not understand using this model of travel on this kind of tour which is historically a "pilgrimage," a unique and solo experience, not the usual group travel tour.
My first and only walk was in May and I only walked 125 miles on that trip, with other things to attend to in southern Spain. I loved the walk and met up with 5 others with whom I became a loose walking group. We reserved ahead for rooms together and planned, therefore, distances to walk each day. It was a lovely group of compatible people. In particular I had prearranged to walk with a French Canadian woman I met online in Camino blogpost who turned out to be a gem of a person.
The trip was not what I imagined beforehand, but whatever is? I had thought about a fairly solo trip where I stayed longer periods at various stops and spent more time sketching and journaling my thoughts, helping to evolve the changes within, in response to the experience. Once one becomes a part of a group, one is part of an organism and tacitly (or not) conforms to the organism to make it most successful. And on the whole, it was that.
But I return to my question, when did the "tourist" group enter the scene, with stays in majorly comfortable inns, traveling en masse, enter the stage?
Revisiting this old thread. I found my diary from my 1990 pilgrimage quite recently. I thought it had been lost. Reading through it again I find that there were a few places called "Albergue" even in 1990 after all. Though the majority were known as "refugios" then. Odd how the mind plays tricks with memory after so long!There were no albergues in 2001. They were all refugios. The places that were called refugios in 2001 were called albergues by 2004. Same places, same facilities, same people running them, different names.
Revisiting this old thread. I found my diary from my 1990 pilgrimage quite recently. I thought it had been lost. Reading through it again I find that there were a few places called "Albergue" even in 1990 after all. Though the majority were known as "refugios" then. Odd how the mind plays tricks with memory after so long!
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