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Absolutely.It's just beyond words, really . . .
Well said, Annie. One of my worries as I embark on my first Camino next month, is that I’ll encounter “these negative people” and not be able to hold my tongue.I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
Reviews of albergues are just peoples opinions, we must remember the majority of the people who give these bad reviews are holiday makers not pilgrims, unfortunately they don't know the difference between the two.
For me, I love staying in the local albergues, it's all part of the experience, but then I'm on a religious pilgrimage not a walking holiday and feel blessed with whatever accommodation I can get..
Hello,I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
Comments on Gronze are not anonymous.It's part of an online culture that — unfortunately — enables and encourages people to share their "opinions" on everything and everyone, usually anonymously. Seldom are such opinions worth taking seriously — just look at all the negative reviews for restaurants, say, on Yelp or TripAdvisor that people leave because a waiter forgot part of an order or the kitchen happened to be off that day. Unless the "reviews" are uniformly negative on sites like these, I generally ignore them as best I can, and I'm sure that applies to Gronze as well. I certainly wouldn't be put off staying at an albergue because one self-important and entitled person claimed that the beds were "too hard"!
I am one who 'needs' such reviews as it reinforces what human nature can really be. Can be in the 'good times.' Wait until some 'bad times' surface and see how extreme these people can be. Human nature, deep down, is where one might not want to tread because it can be extreme in its brutish, horrific, and callous form.I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
Anniesantiago - well said. Thank you!I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
Excellent point.IMHO, a donativo/non-profit albergue should not be subject to "reviews," because it's not in the hotel business. It's not a business at all, it is a dedicated charitable institution, there to serve a particular population in need. It's a little like giving ratings to homeless shelters... or eating the free lunch at the soup kitchen and complaining about the seasonings. It's irrelevant, out of line and utterly ingrateful.
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
TincaTinker, Since I discovered the joy of solitary Camino’s I have truly learned what being thankful is. As an example when I walked the Vasco last year there were a couple of municipal albergues which would have had some Pilgrims running for a Parador.Annie, you’ve been around long enough to remember the Camino. So just treasure those memories.
I was referring to online commenting in general (hence the “usually”), but thank you for the clarification.Comments on Gronze are not anonymous.
Sadly, it seems indicative of the shortsighted times in which we live.I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
The albergue in Poladura on the Camino del Salvador was clean, and had decent beds, but one couple took a look and the wife declared "we are not dogs, we cannot stay here," and they walked on. It was to my benefit as the solo female I had the women's bathroom to myself!As an example when I walked the Vasco last year there were a couple of municipal albergues which would have had some Pilgrims running for a Parador.
They were basic and basically clean. No bedbugs and also no kitchen or refrigerator or anything but a bed and a bathroom.
I am more inclined to leave a review when I have an outstanding experience, and welcome the opportunity to laud those hospitaleros that go above and beyond. One that stands out to me was the donativo Albergue de peregrinos La Ferrería in Amandi on the Norte. Not the greatest dorm room or beds, but the hospitalero made everyone feel so welcome - it was a highlight of my Camino.It would not have occurred to me to write a review of an albergue. The usual criteria -- location, facilities, staff, value for money, etc -- simply do not apply to a non-commercial hospitality service.
I am more inclined to leave a review when I have an outstanding experience, and welcome the opportunity to laud those hospitaleros that go above and beyond. One that stands out to me was the donativo Albergue de peregrinos La Ferrería in Amandi on the Norte. Not the greatest dorm room or beds, but the hospitalero made everyone feel so welcome - it was a highlight of my Camino.
This is the flip side, of course: if there are no reviews there are no good reviews. I´ve been looking at a lot at Gronze ´comentarios´, and the overwhelming majority of comments mention the hospitaleros and the overwhelming majority of those are positive. In the end, it is the hospitaleros who make staying in an albergue a positive or negative experience and when it is the former, they should get credit for it so it is nice when they do.I am more inclined to leave a review when I have an outstanding experience, and welcome the opportunity to laud those hospitaleros that go above and beyond
What annoys me most of all is those who regard and treat donativo places as free and take more than they need without paying for anything. Often seem to have plenty of money for drinking and dining though and in some cases money for public transport as well, so that they can get to the next 'freeby' first. When I point out what donativo is about, shoulders are shrugged and they are not even embarrassed about it.I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
Why am I laughing? Too Catholic? Pilgrims, it is the low season, and life will return to normal when folks can get out and about. I am about to respond to the OP, more there.Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
Sorry- I still don't know how to quote, but Anniesantiago's post reminded me of a post about the camino film a year ago or so being "too Catholic". We more than often stay in private accomodations but I can't imagine leaving a negative review about anywhere that I could lay my head in a warm room with clean sheets. I am unable to imagine what anyone who posts such negativity is thinking or living. I can only hope that those reading the reviews take the negative with a "grain of salt". I know that when I look at reviews irrespective of the site I pay more attention to the "3" stars in the the middle rather than the top or the bottom.
Annie, first, how can you keep on going? I guess I know why. Your heart and your mind are in the right place. You have something to receive, but also something to give to many people, not least those of us who read what you post. Organising trips is your way to finance your desire to be on Camino. No joke.I just need to vent here a minute. I've been booking lodgings for my next Camino (not my group, but my own).
I would like to ask people who post reviews, especially on pilgrim sites such as Gronze, to remember where they are and what they are there for and THINK about what they are saying?
I have been SHOCKED at some of the negative reviews on Gronze. Pilgrims who are staying at DONATIVO places or places where they're paying less than €20 per night are complaining about having to wash their own dishes, cook their own meals, clean the bathrooms after themselves. I guess nobody told them their mother isn't walking behind them and they should act like adults and clean up after themselves.
They're also complaining about the meals, the softness or hardness of the beds. One woman left a nasty review on a donativo parochial because she had to sleep on a mat on the floor! A DONATIVO! (To me those mats are more comfortable than some beds). She had a roof over her head and a warm place to sleep and complained about the meal not being enough. I wonder what donation SHE left?
What the heck, people?!
Others complained that they were "forced" to participate in religious activities at donativo parochials. Hello? They're run by the church? Pay for a private if you don't like religion?
I am just disgusted with some of the negative reviews. I think it would be nice if the owners of Gronze would let people reply/respond to those folks but I guess it would turn into something ugly.
Who can blame nice little albergues for shutting down!?
It's just beyond words, really . . .
I remember that albergue @trecile I was the only woman staying there - couldn't believe my luck that they had male and female bathrooms so, like you, I had a bathroom to myself. The other miracle was that in a room with 5 or 6 male pilgrims, no-one snored that night. Talk about luxury.The albergue in Poladura on the Camino del Salvador was clean, and had decent beds, but one couple took a look and the wife declared "we are not dogs, we cannot stay here," and they walked on. It was to my benefit as the solo female I had the women's bathroom to myself!
The bit I want to refer to is the second paragraph. Help me here, @Gerard Griffin. Munis, parochial and donatives refuse to be...The tyranny and cruelty of reviews. I know a woman who put her heart and soul into her Airbnb and lost her crucial "superhost" status because some guest complained that the towels (new) were too hard.
On the other hand, the reviews keep the privados on their toes and they're now pretty good, and walker-centric in ways munis, parrochials and donativos refuse to be.
I leave positive reviews where I can and no review if not. I've never left a bad review and I never will. This is someone's pride and joy, and it's their livelihood. Tread softly always.
I think this is so true, @Pelerina. When I read many positive reviews about an albergue, guest house, casa rural, hostal or hotel, but just one or two lonely comments from disgruntled complaining persons, I think the problem is definitely them.Who knows if they posted a review on Gronze or elsewhere - but I agree with others who've commented above, usually these sorts of 'complaints' say much more about the person than the establishment - and it's obvious that they are the outliers.
Or they could be reviewed but not rated? A word-of-mouth recommendation is a kind of "review." You just need to find the credible and objective reviews.IMHO, a donativo/non-profit albergue should not be subject to "reviews," because it's not in the hotel business. It's not a business at all, it is a dedicated charitable institution, there to serve a particular population in need. It's a little like giving ratings to homeless shelters... or eating the free lunch at the soup kitchen and complaining about the seasonings. It's irrelevant, out of line and utterly ingrateful.
A friend of mine has written a number of Camino guides. He received an angry email from one user because a bar mentioned in a guide had run out of paper in the toilets. At least six months after the guide was published but apparently my friend should have included that information in the guide....Regarding thoughtless reviews, I have told this story before on a similar thread:
However, would not have been easy for the hospitalero to put a warning ?"The guy next to me snored all night."
Walking to Villar de Mazarife i met a Canadian girl and as we were walking an American guy joined us who had walked from SJPP!
While talking to the girl he said he had stayed in as many donitivo's as he could on the way they were great because they were "FREE" !
I put him right; and we parted soon after!
But from his response and no sorry i felt he would continue in the same manner!
(some people are ignorant of the facts. others are just users)
Regarding reviews on Gronze, Booking etc entitlement has many levels of expectation.
While trolling through places to stay i found a one star review that has stuck with me!
A woman left this because the hotel did not provide an ice bucket for their champagne!!
I could have solved her dilemma and drunk it for her
The bit I want to refer to is the second paragraph. Help me here, @Gerard Griffin. Munis, parochial and donatives refuse to be...
Explain.
Well, maybe don't.
They are not in the running for reviews!
Their existence is not at all dependent on what you or I think of them and their service.
Service. yes, service. not obligation, just plain old hospitable service.
I do ask for forbearance, as I am just trying to balance your comment, and am not sure if it will, unwittingly, cause a polemic situation.
I do rather dislike labels.
Am I using polemic correctly? it was not in my school dictionary!
It would surely be a one-sided conversation: most pilgrims will have left long before 8 a.m. to avoid walking in the heat of the day.If you can stay after 8 am you can talk to other walkers and to the hospitaleros in ways that are hard when you have to shower, nap, wash clothes, shop, eat and sleep
Alas, poor undervalued Martha! Housework does not do itself.But more Mary, less Martha.
I confess: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Seriously.I hesitated about answering this question because I'm old enough to remember a time when it was possible for people to hold different opinions without falling out personally, when different views could be debated courteously and even joyfully. Those days are gone. Cancelling, "trolling", these are the words they use now. It's a pity, but that's life. Or not.
I love donativo albergues and always choose them because for me the ideal of voluntary service and of making the Camino accessible to the poor is wonderful, exceptional, to be cherished and celebrated.
But when I say that many (not all of course) are not "walker-centred" I mean that compared to privados you can't stay more than one night, you have to be in before 10, you have to leave before 8. This is a deliberate choice on the part of the organisations that run them, and of course I can understand the reasons for these rules. But imho they are restrictive in ways that prevent donativos from properly fulfilling their real purpose, which I see as one that facilitates the role of the Camino as a path of discovery, in spiritual and existential terms. Permitting the pilgrim to explore the ways in which the Camino differs from other long-distance hikes.
If you can stay after 8 am you can talk to other walkers and to the hospitaleros in ways that are hard when you have to shower, nap, wash clothes, shop, eat and sleep.
If you can leave your gear after 8 and come back to collect it you can explore the town and look for a mass.
If you can stay more than one night you can rest and develop your knowledge of the town and your fellow walkers in ways impossible if you have to move on.
Most important of all, with these freedoms it's possible for hospitaleros to talk to pilgrims, get to know them and answer their questions. I've seen so many situations in which young European and American kids on the Camino, who come from cultures in which voluntary service to others doesn't exist, look around and ask themselves "why are they doing this?". I've seen others in which troubled pilgrims are gently, delicately guided in a direction that may comfort them in affliction.
Hospitaleros consider that they have to work hard, cleaning, cooking, shopping, registering arrivals and so on. These things are important. But the answer is at hand, but found so seldom ... Get the pilgrims to help you. I've lost count of the times I've offered to hang around and help with the cleaning and been politely declined by hospis clearly run off their feet. I'm aware of the issue with donativos facing closure because trained hospis are unavailable, but the answer seems clear to me: recruit likely volunteers from the pilgrims and train them on the job.
As for the regulations: regrettably a little authority gives the wrong sort of person the opportunity to become bullies, stalking pilgrims who smoke on the terrace, refusing to take cards and insisting on cash when there's no cash point in town, shutting the door at 10 knowing that pilgrims are outside, refusing to let people in before 1 when they're baking in the heat, forcing elderly pilgrims to take top bunks, shouting at those still there after 8.01, giving pilgrims who break the rules a public dressing down ... It happens, not often, but that should be never, ever.
Three stories. There's a hostel which is a privado with the spirit of a donativo run by one man who does it all himself. He let me hang around after 8 and a pilgrim arrived at 10 who was stressed and sad, and he left the cleaning to chat with her in the garden about anything and everything. Nothing deep. I watched her spirit blossom.
Another donativo run by one man was full when at 11 pm there was a knock on the door and the hospi opened it to find a bedraggled group of kids who'd been thrown out of their hostel for partying. The hospi let them in, settled them down on mats on the floor, and gently calmed their troubled and shameful spirits.
Finally in a huge donativo with 2 hospis I overheard a conversation between the Australian hospi and a pilgrim about death. The pilgrim didn't say she was bereaved and the hospi didn't ask, but she told her of her work as a terminal care nurse and the way in which it informed her deep and joyful Christian faith. I could see the darkness lift in the pilgrim's wounded spirit.
That's what hospis are for. Clean floors are important and rules are there for a reason and need to be observed. Call it pastoral care.
But more Mary, less Martha.
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