Why is there an a'postrophe?

[Bert45]

Why do I see O'Cebreiro and O'Pedrouzo so often on the internet? It's bad enough to see "it's" when it should be "its", but where do so many people get the idea that there is an apostrophe in these Spanish town names?

 

[Leibniz]

Well...this is just one problem among many when it comes to spelling anything Camino-related. It’s very annoying but I’ve long given up.

 

[hal_cpt]

Randomly, my sister-in-law has one of those surnames that is apostrophised when it's from Ireland and not when it's from Scotland. She is Scots. People always get it wrong.

 

[jungleboy]

Why do I see O'Cebreiro and O'Pedrouzo so often on the internet?

I would guess it's because people don't realise that 'O' is the (masculine singular) definite article in Portuguese and Galician Spanish and assume it should be connected to the word that follows.

 

[Former member 49149]

I was trained as a Primary School teacher in the 60s. Shortly thereafter I noticed the escape of the apostrophe. It had somehow managed to insinuate itself into placards, signs, letters: you name it, they all had extraneous apostrophes . The slippery slope.
You have to choose your battles, and I gave up on that one long ago. Just try to i'g'n'o'r'e them. Pax.

 

[domigee]

Why do I see O'Cebreiro and O'Pedrouzo so often on the internet? It's bad enough to see "it's" when it should be "its", but where do so many people get the idea that there is an apostrophe in these Spanish town names?

I do’nt kn’ow Probably because we are not all linguists and make mistakes.

 

[Kathar1na]

Brierley's popular guidebook, that's why. That's how many people learn the name of the location, see it again and again, and it sticks:



Source: 2015 edition

 

[Bert45]

Brierley's popular guidebook, that's why. That's how many people learn the name of the location, see it again and again, and it sticks:

View attachment 53078

Source: 2015 edition

That has to be the explanation! Thank you! But notice that the name is given correctly where the height of the mountain is given. I bet he copied and pasted it. I don't have Brierley – did he get O Pedrouzo wrong, too?

 

[Bradypus]

Brierley's popular guidebook, that's why. That's how many people learn the name of the location, see it again and again, and it sticks:

Must be a nod towards his Irish background

 

[linkster]

We are so close to St. Patrick's Day ☘ that we all feel a wee bit Irish.

 

[Kathar1na]

Did he get O Pedrouzo wrong, too?

No, it's just called Pedrouzo in my 2015 edition of Brierley. I've read that O Pedrouzo is the Galician name and Pedrouzo is the standard Spanish name.

Just like other languages, in the case of bilingual foreign locations, English often takes the name from a historically dominant language, so Pedrouzo is presumably correct in English. These rules are vague or non-existant for largely unknown places, and they are better known for places such as the town called A Coruña (Galician), La Coruña (Spanish), Corunna (English), and La Corogne (French).

 

[Kathar1na]

From a contemporary English Style Guide that is used by people who have been made aware of the political sensitivities of foreign geographical names in English:

Write Seville. Otherwise use native spellings, e.g. Córdoba, Irún. Use the Catalan names Girona and Lleida, and the Galician names A Coruña and Ourense, as these are now the official Spanish names for the cities and provinces also known as Gerona, Lerida, La Coruña and Orense (see Ley 2/1992, de 28 de febrero, por la que pasan a denominarse oficialmente Girona y Lleida las provincias de Gerona y Lérida and Ley 2/1998, de 3 de marzo, sobre el cambio de denominación de las provincias de La Coruña y Orense).​

​

And early 20th century authors like Georgiana King and Walter Starkie referred to Cebrero, no i, no O and no apostrophe.

 

[Pelegrin]

From a contemporary English Style Guide that is used by people who have been made aware of the political sensitivities of foreign geographical names in English:

Write Seville. Otherwise use native spellings, e.g. Córdoba, Irún. Use the Catalan names Girona and Lleida, and the Galician names A Coruña and Ourense, as these are now the official Spanish names for the cities and provinces also known as Gerona, Lerida, La Coruña and Orense (see Ley 2/1992, de 28 de febrero, por la que pasan a denominarse oficialmente Girona y Lleida las provincias de Gerona y Lérida and Ley 2/1998, de 3 de marzo, sobre el cambio de denominación de las provincias de La Coruña y Orense).​

​

And early 20th century authors like Georgiana King and Walter Starkie referred to Cebrero, no i, no O and no apostrophe.

In Franco's time the official name was El Cebrero and Piedrafita del Cebrero.
In relation to O'Something, 20 years ago most Galician restaurants were O'Pazo,O'Xeito, etc I think to seem more international.

 

[Pelegrin]

With or without apostrophe O Cebreiro is a magic place for me. When I travel from Madrid to my homevillage in Galicia I always stop there to charge my battery of positive energy. I'll be there next week !!!

 

[Bert45]

It leads to a bigger question. Why do we change the names of foreign (big) cities? And why do they change the names of ours? For example: Rome, Florence, Venice, Dunkirk, Lyons and Londra, Londres, Edimburgo. It would be difficult (for us) if we kept to the local spelling of Beijing, though.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Why do I see O'Cebreiro and O'Pedrouzo so often on the internet? It's bad enough to see "it's" when it should be "its", but where do so many people get the idea that there is an apostrophe in these Spanish town names?

Because it's the Camin'O de Santiag'O of course !!!

The its and it's errors are usually typos and auto-correct glitches -- though frustratingly they're also often straightforward mistakes

 

[Pelegrin]

With or without apostrophe O Cebreiro is a magic place for me. When I travel from Madrid to my homevillage in Galicia I always stop there to charge my battery of positive energy. I'll be there next week !!!

A few pilgrims last Wednesday in O Cebreiro, around 15 per day according to the woman in Venta Celta.

 

[Kathar1na]

A few pilgrims last Wednesday in O Cebreiro, around 15 per day according to the woman in Venta Celta.

It must be so peaceful! And it looks like you have fantastic weather at the moment?

 

[Pelegrin]

It must be so peaceful! And it looks like you have fantastic weather at the moment?

Yes the weather is very good these days (cold at night ). The pilgrims must be very happy.

 

[VNwalking]

Just try to i'g'n'o'r'e them.

I wish.


(How did I miss this delightful thread? Pedants unite!)

 

[oursonpolaire]

It leads to a bigger question. Why do we change the names of foreign (big) cities? And why do they change the names of ours? For example: Rome, Florence, Venice, Dunkirk, Lyons and Londra, Londres, Edimburgo. It would be difficult (for us) if we kept to the local spelling of Beijing, though.

Custom and historical usage. There is no rhyme or reason. In recent years, we have much strength of opinion suggesting that we use the local name (watch the sparks when one says Bombay rather than Mumbai) but this does get to be problematic when there is more than one version. Years ago I was stomping through the woods out of Markina (or perhaps I was gently gliding out of Marquina) when I was invited to join a party of workshopping drama teachers at a lunch at roadside asador-- when I told them that I would be stopping in San Sebastian, I was corrected quite firmly that it was Donostia. After some discussion they told me that I perhaps should call it Saint Sébastien if speaking French (our common language at the table) or Saint Sebastian in English, for using San Sebastian would suggest that I supported Castilian centralization, but nobody would understand me if used Donostia.

 

[Bradypus]

After some discussion they told me that I perhaps should call it Saint Sébastien if speaking French (our common language at the table) or Saint Sebastian in English, for using San Sebastian would suggest that I supported Castilian centralization, but nobody would understand me if used Donostia.

That sounds very familiar. Back in 1990 on my first Camino there was very little official recognition of minority languages or provincial autonomy in Spain. Government was still very centralised and authoritarian. Road signs were almost all in Castellano without the Basque or Gallego equivalents which are common today. You could plot your position on the map fairly well from the graffiti on road signs: which language had been used in the hand-painted text replacing the Castellano words that had been obliterated, or by which part of "Castilla y Leon" had been blanked out

 

[Pelegrin]

That sounds very familiar. Back in 1990 on my first Camino there was very little official recognition of minority languages or provincial autonomy in Spain. Government was still very centralised and authoritarian. Road signs were almost all in Castellano without the Basque or Gallego equivalents which are common today. You could plot your position on the map fairly well from the graffiti on road signs: which language had been used in the hand-painted text replacing the Castellano words that had been obliterated, or by which part of "Castilla y Leon" had been blanked out

The are still some hand painted corrections in the Galician language area of Leon: Veiga (Vega) de Valcarce, Perexe (Pereje).
And in Galicia by those who like more the previous name Cabañas (Cabanas).

 

[Bert45]

In case anyone is still interested, I've just had a look at my sellos from 2003. I stayed at the municipal albergue in O Cebreiro. Would you believe it? The sello states "O'Cebreiro"!

 

[C clearly]

In case anyone is still interested, I've just had a look at my sellos from 2003. I stayed at the municipal albergue in O Cebreiro. Would you believe it? The sello states "O'Cebreiro"!

Well, stranger things have happened!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

View attachment 53077

I was trained as a Primary School teacher in the 60s. Shortly thereafter I noticed the escape of the apostrophe. It had somehow managed to insinuate itself into placards, signs, letters: you name it, they all had extraneous apostrophes ...

Rather ironic that it's not spelled apostrophe's isn't it?