notion900
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
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Point of viewwhat d
What does "POV" stand for?
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Point of viewwhat d
What does "POV" stand for?
In America we say "take a hike", too. It's a cliché that I'm pretty sure means the same thing as you imply.You are not allowing for cultural differences. In Australia we go bushwalking. It might be a half day stroll or a 5 day backpacking experience but it is still bushwalking.
Telling someone to "take a hike" is an entirely different thing.![]()
Being a Canadian, well, everywhere here seems to be named after somewhere else. I sit here working in Stratford, Ontario, which is nearby to London, Ontario before I head home to Cambridge, which is just 20 minutes from Paris. So around these parts, especially in an international forum like this, there could be a lot of confusion if we didn't specify! And in the same general vicinity there is a Dublin, a Zurich, a Brussels, a Windsor, etc., etc.
Maybe I sound harsh but I just felt like they were making a point. The guy who lost his boots didn't seem to ask around to see if spares could be found, I think he felt like it was some kind of sudden spiritual test maybe, and he was going to rise to it by lacerating his soles on gravel. I don't know. The other guy was living off handouts and trying to prove that the world is miraculous, I guess. I am just giving an honest reaction to the way they presented themselves to me, not their difficulties per se. I am approached by people begging at least six or seven times every day in my own daily life in London (most recently ten minutes ago), and I work with ex-homeless ex-addicts/alcoholics, and so inevitably I am going to view someone living off handouts on a pilgrimage or playing at martyrdom when they have a nice home to go back to with slightly less sympathy than someone from my everyday life here in 'the world's greatest city'.
some kind of sudden spiritual test maybe, and he was going to rise to it by lacerating his soles on gravel
Point of view
I do understand your points, and the professional beggars are everywhere, including on the Camino -- but you can't just assume that someone with lost/stolen/broken boots should beg for replacements, whilst simultaneously condemning beggars !!
As for "living off handouts", I have not been on a single pilgrimage without eventually getting into (very) unwanted dire straits, regardless of any or all precautions otherwise. The Camino anyway isn't some sort of middle class/bourgeois club restricted solely to those that can pay their way, but it's also even a pilgrimage for the homeless or ex-homeless, addicts or ex-addicts, alcoholics or ex-alcoholics, and I'm sorry, but I find it simply offensive to see claims about "playing at martyrdom" (????) or "they have a nice home to go back to" (????!!!??!!).
I really wish you could have followed the Camino in the early 90's, for example, when no matter who you were, how wealthy you were, how entitled you may have felt, you still often ended up with no other choice than some dirt on the ground for your sleeping bag and a queue for the cold shower, everyone in the same conditions for good or ill, and no place at all for such ill-placed pride nor Jacotrans-assisted psychological luxuries.
You have NO IDEA what was going on through his head, and whilst I don't either, the time in '94 when I found myself forced into being barefoot on the Camino just sucked -- and yeah, I had some of the same sneering comments as you've just made. And no, they were not helpful nor pertinent in the slightest.
And frankly YES -- you do sound harsh.
Probably the website I referred to was written by an American. I love the word "bushwalking"! I think I will use it around my neck of the woods in Illinois and see the reactions of others.You are not allowing for cultural differences. In Australia we go bushwalking. It might be a half day stroll or a 5 day backpacking experience but it is still bushwalking.
Telling someone to "take a hike" is an entirely different thing.![]()
If you read my post carefully you'll see that I didn't condemn beggars, or even imply that the ones who approach me are 'professional'. I simply said I was often approached by them.
When I did the French way in 2007 it was pretty basic - bare municipal albergues with no heating, no choice of albergue in most places, mattresses on the floor. I agree with you that it has become pretty pampered now. But this is beside my point, I mean people dip into the caminos as a different way of life. They behave differently. So for instance if I had a horrible setback in everyday life, I wouldn't naturally assume it was a spiritual test. I would just be annoyed and try my best to sort it out. But the two people in my original post (I made no comments about your experiences by the way) just struck me as people who were making points, and points that wouldn't stand up in 'real' life. I don't sneer at all. My ex homeless colleagues would tell you that. They cook me breakfast some days, and listen to MY problems - that's God actually at work.
I don't think you've understood how the Spaniards think -- their allowances for antisocial foreign behaviour does not constitute happiness with it.
I do understand your points, and the professional beggars are everywhere, including on the Camino -- but you can't just assume that someone with lost/stolen/broken boots should beg for replacements, whilst simultaneously condemning beggars !!
As for "living off handouts", I have not been on a single pilgrimage without eventually getting into (very) unwanted dire straits, regardless of any or all precautions otherwise. The Camino anyway isn't some sort of middle class/bourgeois club restricted solely to those that can pay their way, but it's also even a pilgrimage for the homeless or ex-homeless, addicts or ex-addicts, alcoholics or ex-alcoholics, and I'm sorry, but I find it simply offensive to see claims about "playing at martyrdom" (????) or "they have a nice home to go back to" (????!!!??!!).
I really wish you could have followed the Camino in the early 90's, for example, when no matter who you were, how wealthy you were, how entitled you may have felt, you still often ended up with no other choice than some dirt on the ground for your sleeping bag and a queue for the cold shower, everyone in the same conditions for good or ill, and no place at all for such ill-placed pride nor Jacotrans-assisted psychological luxuries.
You have NO IDEA what was going on through his head, and whilst I don't either, the time in '94 when I found myself forced into being barefoot on the Camino just sucked -- and yeah, I had some of the same sneering comments as you've just made. And no, they were not helpful nor pertinent in the slightest.
And frankly YES -- you do sound harsh.
If you read my post carefully you'll see that I didn't condemn beggars, or even imply that the ones who approach me are 'professional'. I simply said I was often approached by them.
When I did the French way in 2007 it was pretty basic - bare municipal albergues with no heating, no choice of albergue in most places, mattresses on the floor. I agree with you that it has become pretty pampered now. But this is beside my point, I mean people dip into the caminos as a different way of life. They behave differently. So for instance if I had a horrible setback in everyday life, I wouldn't naturally assume it was a spiritual test. I would just be annoyed and try my best to sort it out. But the two people in my original post (I made no comments about your experiences by the way) just struck me as people who were making points, and points that wouldn't stand up in 'real' life. I don't sneer at all. My ex homeless colleagues would tell you that. They cook me breakfast some days, and listen to MY problems - that's God actually at work.
Whilst reading both posts from Notion 900 and Jabba Papa,I can honestly say that both points of view are viableI do understand your points, and the professional beggars are everywhere, including on the Camino -- but you can't just assume that someone with lost/stolen/broken boots should beg for replacements, whilst simultaneously condemning beggars !!
As for "living off handouts", I have not been on a single pilgrimage without eventually getting into (very) unwanted dire straits, regardless of any or all precautions otherwise. The Camino anyway isn't some sort of middle class/bourgeois club restricted solely to those that can pay their way, but it's also even a pilgrimage for the homeless or ex-homeless, addicts or ex-addicts, alcoholics or ex-alcoholics, and I'm sorry, but I find it simply offensive to see claims about "playing at martyrdom" (????) or "they have a nice home to go back to" (????!!!??!!).
I really wish you could have followed the Camino in the early 90's, for example, when no matter who you were, how wealthy you were, how entitled you may have felt, you still often ended up with no other choice than some dirt on the ground for your sleeping bag and a queue for the cold shower, everyone in the same conditions for good or ill, and no place at all for such ill-placed pride nor Jacotrans-assisted psychological luxuries.
You have NO IDEA what was going on through his head, and whilst I don't either, the time in '94 when I found myself forced into being barefoot on the Camino just sucked -- and yeah, I had some of the same sneering comments as you've just made. And no, they were not helpful nor pertinent in the slightest.
And frankly YES -- you do sound harsh.
I'm glad to see you two are meeting somewhere in the middle, so to speak. I can envision you shaking hands over this as you've resolved some of your differences!OK fair enough, and good points, replies, and reassurances in return -- thanks. Sorry if I misunderstood anything, but I've been on the receiving end of certain attitudes far too often.
I cannot anyway even pretend to judge your personal spirituality.
You're right that in the mid-2000s there was still some more significant remnant of what the Camino was like in the '90s and earlier.
I think you unintentionally rubbed me the wrong way, and I apologise for reacting as such.
Where is SJPP?
Oops.......I thought @Antonius Vaessen was being mischievousThanks for opening this up for my two cents worth. Being new and never doing a camino or even being in Spain when some post a name of a village/town I haven't a clue which camino they are speaking of. Sure wish this would be taken into considerations.
No offense taken.While I am at this I might as well answer another previously post (Viranani) said about using the term "My Camino". I will continue to use such because it IS "My Camino"! no one is doing it for me and so I put claim to it as being mine. So if this is offensive I won't apologize. Let it go; let it be...
We all (still) go there from time to time, no matter how long we've been here. One thing I find helps is to refer to the banner at the top of the screen, which will tell you what topic the post has been put up on. It should say (if the poster has been careful) "Camino Frances" or "Via de la Plata," or whatever.Thanks for opening this up for my two cents worth. Being new and never doing a camino or even being in Spain when some post a name of a village/town I haven't a clue which camino they are speaking of. Sure wish this would be taken into considerations.
So did I. Must be a Canadian thing. LOL
Commonest acronyms, off the top of my head:
CF=Camino Frances
VdlP=Via de la Plata
SJPP=St Jean Pied de Port
SdC=Santiago de Compostela
I think the Spaniards like sleeping later in the morning cuz they party in the streets until 5:00am!...well, maybe not the ones walking the Camino!
Paris Texas: I remember the movie well!Hi Anemone,
I am American and I only say Paris, or London or Toronto. But we also have a Paris, Texas; Paris, Missouri; Paris, Illinois, and probably even more. They are all small towns and if I was referring to them I would definately include the state they are located in or people would think I am going on a great vacation!![]()
Wonderful poem, thank you for sharing it,
Being a Canadian, well, everywhere here seems to be named after somewhere else. I sit here working in Stratford, Ontario, which is nearby to London, Ontario before I head home to Cambridge, which is just 20 minutes from Paris.
But the Camino goes through many other places than Galician villages. I remember a night in Deba when three walkers walked in the albergue at 6 in the morning after a night in one of the cooking clubs in town.In rural Galicia, there aren´t bars to party until 5:00am and many people have to get up very early to work with their milky cows (50 0r even more).
While I am at this I might as well answer another previously post (Viranani) said about using the term "My Camino". I will continue to use such because it IS "My Camino"! no one is doing it for me and so I put claim to it as being mine. So if this is offensive I won't apologize. Let it go; let it be...
I was mostly referring to the larger city centers I stayed in... No cow milking Spaniards living there!In rural Galicia, there aren´t bars to party until 5:00am and many people have to get up very early to work with their milky cows (50 0r even more).
These words don't bug me now but in Spain after having 250,000 pilgrims pass us slowpokes by I was getting pretty irritated by all those damn Buen caminos.Words, words, words. Which ones bug you and why?
Accurate though. Walking the Camino Frances last year I often saw piles of baggage waiting to be picked up by Jacotrans and their competitors. I was very surprised at how many of the bags and occasionally suitcases which I saw could not practically have been carried for more than the few minutes it might take to pass through an airport. Clearly owned by people who never had any intention of carrying their luggage on their daily walking. Even if that had been my plan too I think that I would have chosen something more easily portable just for ease of transfers to and from the airport.Using the term "luggage"..it always brings to mind someone walking with a roller suitcase.....
Or this guy.Using the term "luggage"..it always brings to mind someone walking with a roller suitcase.....
Using the term "luggage"..it always brings to mind someone walking with a roller suitcase.....
I wonder how many of the people who brought full size luggage and used transport services exclusively loved their Camino experience and are members of this forum?Accurate though. Walking the Camino Frances last year I often saw piles of baggage waiting to be picked up by Jacotrans and their competitors. I was very surprised at how many of the bags and occasionally suitcases which I saw could not practically have been carried for more than the few minutes it might take to pass through an airport. Clearly owned by people who never had any intention of carrying their luggage on their daily walking. Even if that had been my plan too I think that I would have chosen something more easily portable just for ease of transfers to and from the airport.
I wonder how many of the people who brought full size luggage and used transport services exclusively loved their Camino experience and are members of this forum?
Didn't you know? They walk from charging station to charging station as their pilgrimage! 'OMG it is 27km until I can charge my IPhone!'I've met someone who was walking without money, and someone who said his boots were stolen so he carried on barefoot. Philosophy or attention-seeking? TBH I found them both a bit annoying. Often the quietest most unassuming pilgrim is the one I admire most. Like a 90 year old German man I met sitting silently outside a bar in Boimorto, Galicia, enjoying the sun, who had just walked from Stuttgart.
Oh another annoying words thing is people who go on about charging their devices all the time, like some kind of disaster will occur if you have an hour without email. My first camino I left my mobile phone at home, and guess what - I'm still alive!
I knew you were only sharing what you had observed and were not judging. And I meant no negativity either. I was just curious in my reply, wondering if this forum is used much by those who do bring "real" luggage and use transport for it...I do believe "to each their own".I have no doubt that many people who made this choice thoroughly enjoyed their camino experience and gained a great deal from it. In my post I expressed surprise at the large number of bags which could only be of practical use when using luggage services. I expressed my personal opinion that they appeared cumbersome and limited both choice and mobility. I did not and I would not suggest that to make use of such luggage and the baggage transport services is not a valid and acceptable option for those who wish to do so.
I don't think you've understood how the Spaniards think -- their allowances for antisocial foreign behaviour does not constitute happiness with it.
And you think that those who speak of "luggage" of others, don't mean it?Using the term "luggage"..it always brings to mind someone walking with a roller suitcase.....
More than you would like to think.I wonder how many of the people who brought full size luggage and used transport services exclusively loved their Camino experience and are members of this forum?
Nothing wrong with him. He may be suffering from real back pain and is at least putting sweat and tears into it vs those creating a new industry: mochileros.How about this guy? We saw him checking out at the front desk at the Parador in Leon. We had stopped in to order breakfast, but were told by staff that it was for hotel guests only!
View attachment 32659
I say, the more the merrier!More than you would like to think.![]()
Thanks but what map might you be referring to?No offense taken.
Of course we walk our own camino--it could not be otherwise.
What I was referring to is different--it's using those words in ways that turn them into offensive or defensive weapons. So, for example, an able-bodied peregrino turns up at an albergue in time to get near the front of the queue, after taking a taxi a good part of the way from the last albergue and getting dropped outside the village so they can appear to have walked the whole way. Their deception deprives honest walkers of a place to stay, but when spoken to, they say, "It's MY camino, and how dare you tell me how I should or should not walk it!"
An extreme example, but that's the kind of thing I mean.
We all (still) go there from time to time, no matter how long we've been here. One thing I find helps is to refer to the banner at the top of the screen, which will tell you what topic the post has been put up on. It should say (if the poster has been careful) "Camino Frances" or "Via de la Plata," or whatever.
Then there's a vague sense of where it is and you can go to a map and see what the acronym might refer to. I remember being confused and frustrated by this as well, but eventually with more familiarity it mostly sorts itself out.
Commonest acronyms, off the top of my head:
CF=Camino Frances
VdlP=Via de la Plata
SJPP=St Jean Pied de Port
SdC=Santiago de Compostela
Sure. It happens all the time to me too, when someone's talking about a place I haven't been. So if they haven't posted on a labeled Forum (which makes it obvious which Camino they're talking about), I just take the name, go to Google Map and do a search. Easy.Often what I see is a name of a town/village which is totally unknown to me so I find myself wondering where in the hell are we; what Camino is this person doing. Ya see whata mean?
What's wrong with enterprising Spaniards creating a new industry and earning money?Nothing wrong with him. He may be suffering from real back pain and is at least putting sweat and tears into it vs those creating a new industry: mochileros.
Thanks so much to LmSundaze, Annette and others for explaining far more eloquently than I could the meaning of "De Colores". And yes, it's associated with the world-wide Cursillo movement which I understand originated in Santiago de Compostela.
De colores
Bogong
May I ask (while going a bit far afield from the original topic)? Chicken song?So in effect what we have today grew out of, and is closely associated historically with, the Camino pilgrimage. The singing of "De Colores" (a traditional "chicken" song) was started by a group of returning pilgrims and has become a joyous feature of the movement.
Really don't need to explain my why to anyone and it seem like we will be judge for doing so, happy accepting individuals I think not.More than you would like to think.![]()
Aussies say bushwalking too Chris.Probably the website I referred to was written by an American. I love the word "bushwalking"! I think I will use it around my neck of the woods in Illinois and see the reactions of others.![]()
Somehow my comment got out of context. Yes, I know it's an Aussie expression, which is why I want to use it in Illinois, to see the reaction of family and friends, hoping for a good laugh!Aussies say bushwalking too Chris.![]()
I tend to call it a trek for those reasons , but you can call it any thing you want
I like your response......but it made me think of this quote by Blaise Pascal: The heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing........As to the 'what' I'm on a quest for, I'll just nod and wink knowingly to whoever asks.
Although I find Pascal a very smart cookie, and his quotes thought-provoking, I sort of don't really agree with that one. For me the rub is in the separation he places between heart (intuition, gut-feeling) and mind (reason, intellect). I find it polarising, and therefore a bit annoying.
A lot of what I do is a mix between my heart and my reason: they complement each other, and well they should.
De nada. Pero "disculpe" es suficiente.The use of the nown "bugs" as a verb. Discúlpeme.
As a British English speaker, 'doing' a place sounds horrible, like when tourists say 'we are doing Stratford tomorrow and Oxford on Thursday'. Also saying things like Paris, France, or London, England drives us spare.
Just saying!
I guess I wasn't clear when I asked about which camino such and such a town was in. Google Map will not tell me which camino is being referred to. And not all of us have whatever map you might be referring to.No offense taken.
Of course we walk our own camino--it could not be otherwise.
What I was referring to is different--it's using those words in ways that turn them into offensive or defensive weapons. So, for example, an able-bodied peregrino turns up at an albergue in time to get near the front of the queue, after taking a taxi a good part of the way from the last albergue and getting dropped outside the village so they can appear to have walked the whole way. Their deception deprives honest walkers of a place to stay, but when spoken to, they say, "It's MY camino, and how dare you tell me how I should or should not walk it!"
An extreme example, but that's the kind of thing I mean.
We all (still) go there from time to time, no matter how long we've been here. One thing I find helps is to refer to the banner at the top of the screen, which will tell you what topic the post has been put up on. It should say (if the poster has been careful) "Camino Frances" or "Via de la Plata," or whatever.
Then there's a vague sense of where it is and you can go to a map and see what the acronym might refer to. I remember being confused and frustrated by this as well, but eventually with more familiarity it mostly sorts itself out.
Commonest acronyms, off the top of my head:
CF=Camino Frances
VdlP=Via de la Plata
SJPP=St Jean Pied de Port
SdC=Santiago de Compostela
Hi, @MarigoldMama.Google Map will not tell me which camino is being referred to. And not all of us have whatever map you might be referring to.
Please forgive any unintended intimidation if you felt that from what I wrote; it was not intended. It's good to get feedback like this--and I hope all of us to whom this applies can let it in.Last but not least I would like you camino veterans to know that to us newbies we become a bit leery/jittery of asking or commenting due to the intimidation seen here and the continuation of beating a dead horse...
The one thing that caught me off guard (didn't upset me, though) was when people would say "Have fun!" Now that I'm back, people will say "Did you have fun?" I wouldn't call the pilgrimage fun, necessarily - physically challenging, yes (limping into allergies at the end of the day)- amazing and beautiful and, for me, transformative! But unless a person has experienced something like this, I think people just find it difficult to understand. Therefore, people use words that they can better understand, even if they use words I might not necessarily use. Interesting topic!Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?
Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday? Personally, it drove me mad last year when people kept saying to me, 'Enjoy your holiday!'. Holiday? That struck me as a misapprehension about the camino which detracted from what I was going to put into the experience and what I hoped to get out of it. A lot of people say 'walk' rather than 'hike', and that too could imply something easygoing, and relative though these words are, as are our experiences, I don't consider any camino leading to SdC easy.
Does 'hike' bother you? What other words - camino-forum-related - bug you and why??
This OP needn't open up the can of worms that is pilgrim vs tourist, but if it does, we're ready for another joust, right?
Phil
For me " Doing El Camino de Santiago ".
IMHO
First of all " doing " like something you tick of a list. You don't do a pilgrimage but you walk and experience it.
Secondly : there is no such thing as "El Camino " but many Caminos or routes to Santiago de Compostela.
Spell check does it to me everytimeAnd another one: the Camino Francis.
Just read a post from someone who claims to have walked the Frances last year but still calls it the Francis. Really? Never wondered where the name came from?![]()
"Hike" doesn't worry me at all. Just a synonym for a long walk. Neither does "holiday" or "vacation". Or indeed "tourist" when applied to myself - though it bothers me when others use it as a derogatory term for those whose ideas and practice differ from their own. When I visit Spain or Italy or Sweden or any other country to walk a pilgrimage route I am a tourist. ...
Did Gandhi not also say "call me anything but don't call me late for dinner!"And Mahatma Gandhi's:
"Speak only if it improves upon the silence."
One of the things that's really beginning to bug me is the many references to 'the Camino' when talking about the Camino Frances - it's as though this trail is the only one of any real significance!Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?
Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday? Personally, it drove me mad last year when people kept saying to me, 'Enjoy your holiday!'. Holiday? That struck me as a misapprehension about the camino which detracted from what I was going to put into the experience and what I hoped to get out of it. A lot of people say 'walk' rather than 'hike', and that too could imply something easygoing, and relative though these words are, as are our experiences, I don't consider any camino leading to SdC easy.
Does 'hike' bother you? What other words - camino-forum-related - bug you and why??
This OP needn't open up the can of worms that is pilgrim vs tourist, but if it does, we're ready for another joust, right?
Phil
One of the things that's really beginning to bug me is the many references to 'the Camino' when talking about the Camino Frances - it's as though this trail is the only one of any real significance!
Well, what a wide-ranging discussion, and so many seemingly disparate views. And how interesting!
At the risk of making things even more complicated while trying to simplify things, here's something to chew on. Please forgive my execrable Spanish!
First "caminar" is the Spanish verb to walk. "El camino" means "the way" or "the walk". So "Me camino a Sydney para visitar a mi familia" is I'm walking to Sydney to visit my family. "Estoy en el camino" means I'm on the way. Now, "The Way" is the name of a film which was not specifically about any route, but rather about human discovery and relationships. That it featured parts of the Camino Frances so-called is neither here nor there. "El Camino de Santiago" simply means " The Way of St James".
Which leads into my worries about terms such as "The Camino provides". While some like to think of it in a benign sense there is also an inherent malevolence if we want to adhere to the term which I suspect is overlooked. It includes bad weather deaths on the Col , robbery, murder and assault, sickness and injury, bed bugs, robberies, Moor raiding parties etc going back centuries. You can't have one without the other. Personally, every morning I walk up to 10k through some lovely country and until I wrecked both my knees (before the Camino) I was an avid cross-country skier (almost certainly what wrecked my knees). Being on top of Mt Jagungal in Australia's Snowy Mountains at the same time I would otherwise have been in church was an uplifting experience even knowing that there was going to be some bruising when then going downhill over several hundred metres of steepish sheet ice. Equally I enjoyed and had uplifting experiences in Spain, even more so in Easter Week than on the Camino, but I wouldn't try to ascribe any mystical value to any of the particular places in question. Several friends have suffered quite serious injuries while skiing but this couldn't be blamed on any "malevolence" even though the snow conditions at the time may have been unstable. For me it was about personal communion with my Saviour and a chance to mull and meditate in an atmosphere away from my normal run of the mill. But no more on that theme.
Which leads to what the Camino is about. It could be a pilgrimage, a voyage of self-discovery, a chance to bond with other family members, a break from everyday life, a history tour, what have you. It's really a means to an end and , historically and for many still is, a pilgrimage to the Tomb of St James. Myself, I'm very concerned at it being seen as an end in itself, with a mystical, almost Holy quality. I think we are in danger sometimes of missing the purpose of the whole thing, and I'm not sure that the Camino itself hasn't become an object of worship for some.
Which gets to the concept of "pilgrimage" and arguments which sometimes surface as to who is and who isn't a "true" pilgrim. Pilgrimage has to do with conviction and commitment not with the method of transport used. The Camino, by whatever route, is a particular way of getting to Santiago de Compostela with an associated certificate at the end, but there are other equally valid paths of pilgrimage. In late 1948 a group of around 120 Spanish youth walked from Roncesvalles to Santiago backed by a support group. Subsequently there was a much larger youth pilgrimage to Santiago associated with post-war religious revival in Spain,
and from what I can gather many of them travelled by bus and train. there are much larger annual pilgrimages, to the Ganges, Mecca and in Japan, and pilgrims carry no odium by using modern transport.
I hope I haven't caused offence by any of this, but I do have some concerns occasionally about the direction things seem to be heading.
De colores
Bogong
Yeah, yo can eschew a lot of things around me except verbosity. Sacrilege !!! Mon dieu!!!Gesundheit!![]()
One of the things that's really beginning to bug me is the many references to 'the Camino' when talking about the Camino Frances - it's as though this trail is the only one of any real significance!
The only question that really gets my goat is 'How can I avoid the hard / boring bits'. The answer to which is, 'Go on vacation instead'.
Yeah, yo can eschew a lot of things around me except verbosity. Sacrilege !!! Mon dieu!!!
Exactly!Elucidate, man, elucidate!![]()
Right. Some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.Thanks for opening this up for my two cents worth. Being new and never doing a camino or even being in Spain when some post a name of a village/town I haven't a clue which camino they are speaking of. Sure wish this would be taken into considerations.
While I am at this I might as well answer another previously post (Viranani) said about using the term "My Camino". I will continue to use such because it IS "My Camino"! no one is doing it for me and so I put claim to it as being mine. So if this is offensive I won't apologize. Let it go; let it be...
I believe that people who are spiritually committed, and either participate or live in silent retreat, do so for an extremely significant reason: they know how overrated words are.
It was not that our ability to use words is inadequate to convey emotion or feelings. I was actually suggesting that people who choose less words, or none at all, understand that words are just one of many ways we can communicate. The hug, the smile, the silent prayer, the look, the holding of silent sacred space between people, the music, the artwork....all incredibly effective and powerful ways to communicate that which resides in the Affective Realm without words.
Even the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote that: 'the limits of my language mean the limits of my world'
I appreciate this point about arguments that generate more heat than light: not that generating heat is always a bad thing. There's surely no harm in seeking clarification from time to time, in order to better understanding. As Kathar1na writes, "Language develops continously, and the spoken language more quickly than accepted written language." We can't always know the full significance of words, whoever utters them.![]()