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Words, words, words. Which ones bug you and why?

S

Satírico

Guest
Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?

Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday? Personally, it drove me mad last year when people kept saying to me, 'Enjoy your holiday!'. Holiday? That struck me as a misapprehension about the camino which detracted from what I was going to put into the experience and what I hoped to get out of it. A lot of people say 'walk' rather than 'hike', and that too could imply something easygoing, and relative though these words are, as are our experiences, I don't consider any camino leading to SdC easy.

Does 'hike' bother you? What other words - camino-forum-related - bug you and why??

This OP needn't open up the can of worms that is pilgrim vs tourist, but if it does, we're ready for another joust, right? :eek:

Phil
 
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Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Year of past OR future Camino
Too many and too often!
"Hike" doesn't worry me at all. Just a synonym for a long walk. Neither does "holiday" or "vacation". Or indeed "tourist" when applied to myself - though it bothers me when others use it as a derogatory term for those whose ideas and practice differ from their own. When I visit Spain or Italy or Sweden or any other country to walk a pilgrimage route I am a tourist. That I have a specific purpose with a spiritual dimension doesn't change that. I think that a lot of the arguments over words which generate more heat than light are because we often create a "straw man" or "Aunt Sally" out of terms we dislike: redefining them in ways which are intrinsically negative or unpleasant and then attack that distorted version instead of the original user's meaning. So there can so often be a knee-jerk reaction of offence where none was ever intended.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011, 2019. CP (tbc)
Hike doesn't bother me, nor a lot of other words people might use. However, whenever I see 'true pilgrim' other than in @JabbaPapa's tag line, I know my ears prick up! I have come to realize that it is normally the preamble to a list of characteristics that I know I am not going to achieve.
 
S

Satírico

Guest
"Hike" doesn't worry me at all. Just a synonym for a long walk. Neither does "holiday" or "vacation". Or indeed "tourist" when applied to myself - though it bothers me when others use it as a derogatory term for those whose ideas and practice differ from their own. When I visit Spain or Italy or Sweden or any other country to walk a pilgrimage route I am a tourist. That I have a specific purpose with a spiritual dimension doesn't change that. I think that a lot of the arguments over words which generate more heat than light are because we often create a "straw man" or "Aunt Sally" out of terms we dislike: redefining them in ways which are intrinsically negative or unpleasant and then attack that distorted version instead of the original user's meaning. So there can so often be a knee-jerk reaction of offence where none was ever intended.
I appreciate this point about arguments that generate more heat than light: not that generating heat is always a bad thing. There's surely no harm in seeking clarification from time to time, in order to better understanding. As Kathar1na writes, "Language develops continously, and the spoken language more quickly than accepted written language." We can't always know the full significance of words, whoever utters them. :)
 
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Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
I appreciate this point about arguments that generate more heat than light: not that generating heat is always a bad thing. There's surely no harm in seeking clarification from time to time, in order to better understanding. As Kathar1na writes, "Language develops continously, and the spoken language more quickly than accepted written language." We can't always know the full significance of words, whoever utters them. :)
Hi Philip 347
For me, it's just 4 words
"The Camino will provide"
Drives me potty I'm afraid!

It might provide.....and then again...it might not!



What about self reliance and some common sense and people's expectations of what the Camino can actually "give"

Hiking.....walking.......doing.....the Camino
I don't think the words really matter when the intentions of most of us are the same

Things are getting interesting on this forum the past two days!!
Best wishes
Annette
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
"It's my camino"--or some version of "my camino/your camino."
We don't own it, for starters. It just is, and has been for a long time before us and probably after us.

But where this gets me is when people use it to as a justification or excuse for behavior that's inconsiderate, selfish, or otherwise blameworthy. Fortunately that kind of usage is not so common, at least here--or actually out there, either. But if people in albergues bristle at being politely asked to be considerate of others, using this kind of language......
It seriously gets me.:confused:
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
For me " Doing El Camino de Santiago ".

IMHO
First of all " doing " like something you tick of a list. You don't do a pilgrimage but you walk and experience it.
Secondly : there is no such thing as "El Camino " but many Caminos or routes to Santiago de Compostela.
Could not agree more about the "El Camino". First, drop the "El" when speaking in English and already using "the". The name the one you are going to do, as there are many routes.

To me it shows how little preparation, reading, people are doing before embarking on this walk, and makes me wonder about their claim to be a "pilgrim".

And yes, that is the other word that bugs me, "pilgrim" because I still beleive that only a tiny fraction of those on the Caminos are pilgrims, the others, like me, tourists enjoying a long walk. I think I could count the pilgrims I have come across over 6 Caminos on my fingers.

Oh, and what about "The Camino provides". It does not. Your planning, wallet and people you bump into provide for you along the way.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
"It's my camino"--or some version of "my camino/your camino."
We don't own it, for starters. It just is, and has been for a long time before us and probably after us.

But where this gets me is when people use it to as a justification or excuse for behavior that's inconsiderate, selfish, or otherwise blameworthy. Fortunately that kind of usage is not so common, at least here--or actually out there, either. But if people in albergues bristle at being politely asked to be considerate of others, using this kind of language......
It seriously gets me.:confused:
Can you believe there are people who are buying patches for their backpacks that say "The Camino Provides" with the year of their walk? I am just waiting to see an "It's my Camino" patch on a backpack to suddenly, and of course inadvertently, misuse my walking poles and trip someone. :eek:
 
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notion900

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
>
The 'El Camino' thing does bug me. Sounds like the person is trying to sound like they speak Spanish when they don't.

And the Camino Provides ting is on the verge of becoming an excuse for selfishness and an I Want attitude. You should always think how YOU can help others first. I've cooked dinners where we strangers each brought together a tomato, an onion and half a bag of pasta. It had a miraculous quality, that we all got fed off seemingly nothing. But the truth was, we all contributed.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
And while I'm at it, what about the different names people give to poor SJPP. Sometimes I feel like not correcting them and imagine them asking for information once in Spain or France on how to get to a city that does not exist.
 

Purky

The Dutch guy
Year of past OR future Camino
Reality is frequently inaccurate
I hope I won't derail this thread, but I'd like to extend it a bit to words in general. As in talking. Much more than once I have noticed that, especially when viewing a stunning landscape, sunrise/sunset or a full moon, most people just can't stay silent.
Generic chatter happens. "Oh, how beautiful," "Now that is gorgeous," or one of the worst ones, "It's just like a postcard!" It kills me every time, and the moment of reverence as well.
I get the need to share, or connect, I really do. But for god's sake, nod or just make simple eye contact. Maybe even a fist-bump, a high five or a hug, but keep quiet!
Pascal's famous quote, "All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone", needs an addendum in my view. "Or, when in company, man's inability to shut up for more than five minutes."
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
And while I'm at it, what about the different names people give to poor SJPP. Sometimes I feel like not correcting them and imagine them asking for information once in Spain or France on how to get to a city that does not exist.
The mispronounced words drive me crazy, but I try my hardest not to let it show. I walked one day with a guy who kept saying the Masada, instead of the Meseta. I wanted to tell him that we weren't in Israel!
Other frequently mispronounced Spanish words are peregrino/a - there's an R in the middle, not an L, and albergue, which people pronounce as the French auberge.
 

Purple Backpack

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2012
England C2C 2015
Via Francigena 2016
Le Puy ... someday.
Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?

Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday?

Just got back from being out of town and saw this but couldn't find anything on the forum about "hike". Can someone please provide the link?

Thanks! A Hiker.
 
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Antonius Vaessen

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2016 VdlPlata - Sanabres
2016.Primitivo
2017 Salvador
2018 Norte (to Sobrado)
2019 Norte again
And while I'm at it, what about the different names people give to poor SJPP. Sometimes I feel like not correcting them and imagine them asking for information once in Spain or France on how to get to a city that does not exist.
Where is SJPP?
 

Magwood

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
See signature line for links to daily posts to blogs from many caminos
For me " Doing El Camino de Santiago ".

IMHO
First of all " doing " like something you tick of a list. You don't do a pilgrimage but you walk and experience it.
Secondly : there is no such thing as "El Camino " but many Caminos or routes to Santiago de Compostela.

As often happens Sabine, you have taken the words from my mouth.
 
S

Satírico

Guest
Just got back from being out of town and saw this but couldn't find anything on the forum about "hike". Can someone please provide the link?

Thanks! A Hiker.
Hi, it was something I read buried within a thread in the trending topics email. Suffice to say there was some support for the 'don't-call-it-hiking' mindset, but I can't say how much. It just surprised me is all.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-number-of-hours-of-daily-walking.46450/
 
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S

Satírico

Guest
The 'El Camino' thing does bug me. Sounds like the person is trying to sound like they speak Spanish when they don't.

And the Camino Provides ting is on the verge of becoming an excuse for selfishness and an I Want attitude. You should always think how YOU can help others first. I've cooked dinners where we strangers each brought together a tomato, an onion and half a bag of pasta. It had a miraculous quality, that we all got fed off seemingly nothing. But the truth was, we all contributed.
I'm curious, is 'el camino' something they tend to say in the Martin Sheen movie?
 
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S

Satírico

Guest
And while I'm at it, what about the different names people give to poor SJPP. Sometimes I feel like not correcting them and imagine them asking for information once in Spain or France on how to get to a city that does not exist.
This post reminds me of the video diaries I watched back in 2014 before setting off (Youtube channel: Mangeronthehill). The nicest fellow, I still watch them sometimes, but he can't pronounce a single name correctly. His showstopper is 'Pomplano'. It never fails to make me scream. :p
 

Icacos

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (2013)
I hope I won't derail this thread, but I'd like to extend it a bit to words in general. As in talking. Much more than once I have noticed that, especially when viewing a stunning landscape, sunrise/sunset or a full moon, most people just can't stay silent.
Generic chatter happens. "Oh, how beautiful," "Now that is gorgeous," or one of the worst ones, "It's just like a postcard!" It kills me every time, and the moment of reverence as well.
I get the need to share, or connect, I really do. But for god's sake, nod or just make simple eye contact. Maybe even a fist-bump, a high five or a hug, but keep quiet!
Pascal's famous quote, "All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone", needs an addendum in my view. "Or, when in company, man's inability to shut up for more than five minutes."
And Mahatma Gandhi's:

"Speak only if it improves upon the silence."
 
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A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
Ok. I still struggle with the Spanish v=b thing, and now that I'm learning Galician my brain is turning to caldo. :cool:
It was meant to be part of the irritation, not to confuse you. My appologies. o_O For short it's "porfis"; doesn't help much, does it? ;)
 
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notion900

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
>
It's the capital E that drives me mad in El Camino. I don't even know why.

As a British English speaker, 'doing' a place sounds horrible, like when tourists say 'we are doing Stratford tomorrow and Oxford on Thursday'. Also saying things like Paris, France, or London, England drives us spare.

Just saying!
 
T

Tigger

Guest
Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?

Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday? Personally, it drove me mad last year when people kept saying to me, 'Enjoy your holiday!'. Holiday? That struck me as a misapprehension about the camino which detracted from what I was going to put into the experience and what I hoped to get out of it. A lot of people say 'walk' rather than 'hike', and that too could imply something easygoing, and relative though these words are, as are our experiences, I don't consider any camino leading to SdC easy.

Does 'hike' bother you? What other words - camino-forum-related - bug you and why??

This OP needn't open up the can of worms that is pilgrim vs tourist, but if it does, we're ready for another joust, right? :eek:

Phil

Bed

bugs me.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Have you noticed how their repetition when spoken robs them of all meaning?

Anyway, I was surprised to read some forum members reacting to the use of the word 'hike' in a thread yesterday? Personally, it drove me mad last year when people kept saying to me, 'Enjoy your holiday!'. Holiday? That struck me as a misapprehension about the camino which detracted from what I was going to put into the experience and what I hoped to get out of it. A lot of people say 'walk' rather than 'hike', and that too could imply something easygoing, and relative though these words are, as are our experiences, I don't consider any camino leading to SdC easy.

Does 'hike' bother you? What other words - camino-forum-related - bug you and why??

This OP needn't open up the can of worms that is pilgrim vs tourist, but if it does, we're ready for another joust, right? :eek:

Phil
I was always confused about some of the terminology, too, on walking vs hiking. Here's a good website describing the differences.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Hiking_vs_Trekking
 

Coleen Clark

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Walked August 2015, planning on walking August 2017
I'm curious, is 'el camino' something they tend to say in the Martin Sheen movie?
So I was in a conversation with some friends and telling them I was going on Camino again in August. A guy overheard us and said
"El Camino? That's just a Ranchero without class."
Honest, I had to look it up. 5bc18e1cb4fb0c2dd664ff703187a252.jpg
 

Glenn Rowe

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
.
I don't have a problem when people say "your/my/our Camino" etc. as long as they're speaking of their specific journey/experiences and not the Camino itself. The journey of the Camino is highly personal; I may walk right beside you, each step of the way, and yet have an entirely different experience.
 
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T

Tigger

Guest
Just for you and your pun Tigger. Ugh. View attachment 32616
Thanks Coleen.
I have unfortunately met them, even though I am a Camino virgin. ( I hope no-one takes exception to this self imposed terminology of mine )
My son in law met me at Warsaw airport and he had the most appalling red angry rash on one side of his face, and he had spent weeks and many $$$ ( or I should say Złote monety to appease the pedants here) on doctors and even specialists to find a cause which they had assumed was an allergy to something. It finally turned out to be bed bugs. He had flown to London for business, stayed in a Five Star hotel, and brought some little visitors home with him which had made their home in the padded bed head in their bedroom. They are DISGUSTING and surprisingly hard to shift a whole colony, once established. My daughter was never bitten, and one daughter, the other small one who used to come into their bed in the early hours was also bitten. YUCK.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
So I was in a conversation with some friends and telling them I was going on Camino again in August. A guy overheard us and said
"El Camino? That's just a Ranchero without class."
Honest, I had to look it up. View attachment 32615
Yep, I remember those El Caminos.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Well, I certainly envy those of you who speak fluent Spanish, but I only know a few words that help me when ordering food and in offering a few pleasantries to the locals. I do not have a desire to study the language as I'm probably a little lazy, truth be told. Therefore I am not driven nuts by those who mispronounce the language as I am quite ignorant and butchering it, too.

I first learned of "The Way of St. James" from the movie "The Way", like the majority of we non catholic Americans who are now influxing and enjoying these pilgrimage routes. I think in the movie it was referred to as "The Camino de Santiago", so I googled those words and did some reading on the pilgrimage in Spain. I kept calling it that as I knew no different. I do now shorten my words to "The Camino, Frances route", or whatever route I'm doing...oops, walking. o_O

All of us who arrive from various countries use different wording from each other in describing things, it's just the way it is. Americans never say we are "on holiday", so when I read those words on the forum I assume the writer is possibly from England or maybe Australia, but I know they are not American because we say "taking vacation". I am amused by all the cultural differences encountered, not annoyed. I personally don't care what words they use to describe their own experience. Let's lighten up! (That may possibly be just an American expression.) ;)
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I think that is an American thing as it's a large country, with lots of mobility, and names of places used over and over again. Very annoying here in Canada when watching The Dragons' Den and people say "I'm from Toronto, Ontario". No, really? :rolleyes:
Hi Anemone,
I am American and I only say Paris, or London or Toronto. But we also have a Paris, Texas; Paris, Missouri; Paris, Illinois, and probably even more. They are all small towns and if I was referring to them I would definately include the state they are located in or people would think I am going on a great vacation! :D
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Thanks Coleen.
I have unfortunately met them, even though I am a Camino virgin. ( I hope no-one takes exception to this self imposed terminology of mine )
My son in law met me at Warsaw airport and he had the most appalling red angry rash on one side of his face, and he had spent weeks and many $$$ ( or I should say Złote monety to appease the pedants here) on doctors and even specialists to find a cause which they had assumed was an allergy to something. It finally turned out to be bed bugs. He had flown to London for business, stayed in a Five Star hotel, and brought some little visitors home with him which had made their home in the padded bed head in their bedroom. They are DISGUSTING and surprisingly hard to shift a whole colony, once established. My daughter was never bitten, and one daughter, the other small one who used to come into their bed in the early hours was also bitten. YUCK.
Sorry to hear of your family's unfortunate bedbug nightmare. They have experienced first hand one one of my biggest fears of travel. I hope it won't happen to me..."knock on wood"! (I wonder if that is just an American expression?);)
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Year of past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
I hear a lot of all the above. I have learned to choose my battles carefully, and let a lot of stuff just pass me by.
But the things that instantly get my goat are usually the first things out of the mouth of a "pilgrim" at my door:

"Is this a free albergue, or do I have to pay?"
"You have wifi/laundry service/vegan cuisine, right?"
"Do you have a bed for a poor pilgrim?" (when the pilgrim is wearing a 200-euro jacket and still has headphones installed)
"I want to see the room before I stay."

I will admit to answering NO to all the above. There's a hotel down the road. They'll be happier there.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
@Rebekah Scott... Whaaat?!
I'm shaking my head--unfortunately not in surprise because we get people here like that too. But there is still amazement at the chutzpah of someone who turns up at your door and quizzes you as if you were running a posh hotel.

There's a hotel down the road. They'll be happier there.
And so will everybody else be, probably, except for the employees of said hotel. No doubt these 'guests' are the high maintenance kind.
 

Bogong

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
First, March 2014
Hi Philip 347
For me, it's just 4 words
"The Camino will provide"
Drives me potty I'm afraid!

It might provide.....and then again...it might not!



What about self reliance and some common sense and people's expectations of what the Camino can actually "give"

Hiking.....walking.......doing.....the Camino
I don't think the words really matter when the intentions of most of us are the same

Things are getting interesting on this forum the past two days!!
Best wishes
Annette

Me too, Annette. What an absolute shocker! No need to even try to explain.

De colores

Bogong
 
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Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Year of past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
yes. This makes me wonder, too.
I used to think these "The Camino Provides" great expectations were setting people up for disappointment and suffering. But when I thought it the whole way through? I have to admit, provision DOES happen on the camino, just not in some magical way. Often the Camino provides via YOUR enterprise, YOU stepping outside your comfort zone, YOU setting aside your pride and asking someone for help... or even YOUR MasterCard!
So maybe these pilgrims are speaking from a deeper wisdom. Or just middle-class privilege?
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
yes. This makes me wonder, too.
I used to think these "The Camino Provides" great expectations were setting people up for disappointment and suffering. But when I thought it the whole way through? I have to admit, provision DOES happen on the camino, just not in some magical way. Often the Camino provides via YOUR enterprise, YOU stepping outside your comfort zone, YOU setting aside your pride and asking someone for help... or even YOUR MasterCard!
So maybe these pilgrims are speaking from a deeper wisdom. Or just middle-class privilege?
Middle-class privilege. Doubt they would think the Camino would provide much if it wasn't for their bank and credit cards.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
I hear a lot of all the above. I have learned to choose my battles carefully, and let a lot of stuff just pass me by.
But the things that instantly get my goat are usually the first things out of the mouth of a "pilgrim" at my door:

"Is this a free albergue, or do I have to pay?"
"You have wifi/laundry service/vegan cuisine, right?"
"Do you have a bed for a poor pilgrim?" (when the pilgrim is wearing a 200-euro jacket and still has headphones installed)
"I want to see the room before I stay."

I will admit to answering NO to all the above. There's a hotel down the road. They'll be happier there.
I have to admit that on a couple of occasions I asked if I could see the the room/beds first (in a very nice way, of course:)), and was graciously allowed to do so. But I didn't ask as if I were entitled to inspect it.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
"Is this a free albergue, or do I have to pay?"
"You have wifi/laundry service/vegan cuisine, right?"
"Do you have a bed for a poor pilgrim?" (when the pilgrim is wearing a 200-euro jacket and still has headphones installed)
"I want to see the room before I stay."

I will admit to answering NO to all the above. There's a hotel down the road. They'll be happier there.
When I was in Rates I watched the hospy tell those who wanted to look at rooms first and a room for their foursome only that the albergue was fully booked when there were two dorms completely empty. I was later invited to stay in one of them all on my own. :rolleyes:
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I have to admit that on a couple of occasions I asked if I could see the the room/beds first (in a very nice way, of course:)), and was graciously allowed to do so. But I didn't ask as if I were entitled to inspect it.
It's all in our "tone". Showing respect goes a long way and often has good results.
 
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T

Tigger

Guest
I hear a lot of all the above. I have learned to choose my battles carefully, and let a lot of stuff just pass me by.
But the things that instantly get my goat are usually the first things out of the mouth of a "pilgrim" at my door:

"Is this a free albergue, or do I have to pay?"
"You have wifi/laundry service/vegan cuisine, right?"
"Do you have a bed for a poor pilgrim?" (when the pilgrim is wearing a 200-euro jacket and still has headphones installed)
"I want to see the room before I stay."

I will admit to answering NO to all the above. There's a hotel down the road. They'll be happier there.
There has been some recent talk on here about the definitions of words describing experiences and names for things on the Camino.

If there is ONE thing I have learned from this forum and I am about to walk my first Camino wherever I end up..
is that to be a tourist is to have expectations...
to be a pilgrim is to be thankful for everything offered.
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Year of past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
Tigger, I have to agree. We're reaching a tipping point on the Camino. So many of us are born and raised Consumers, we have no idea that there's any other way to be, that life isn't all Value for Money and transaction.
The Camino offers us a new view, if we are willing to let go of our expectations and demands. There's a whole new world of grace that lies beyond...
 
T

Tigger

Guest
Tigger, I have to agree. We're reaching a tipping point on the Camino. So many of us are born and raised Consumers, we have no idea that there's any other way to be, that life isn't all Value for Money and transaction.
The Camino offers us a new view, if we are willing to let go of our expectations and demands. There's a whole new world of grace that lies beyond...
Yu are preaching to the choir here, but to me it beggars belief that 'pilgrims' would have the mindset that an albergue, for which you pay a few Euros or even donativo, should provide a similar standard of accommodation to a hostel or hotel and that unless they are sick or in trouble or injured, that they should even require that? Whilst it is fair to say that each person's experience is different, unique and of value, in my mind there are certain philosophical and historical ethos that come into play.
 

DurhamParish

Un Cerveza, Por Favor
Year of past OR future Camino
Caminho Portuguese 2012 & 2018
Camino Frances 2014, 2015, 2015, 2017, 2018
So I was in a conversation with some friends and telling them I was going on Camino again in August. A guy overheard us and said
"El Camino? That's just a Ranchero without class."
Honest, I had to look it up. View attachment 32615

For those who aren't aware of that bit of Americana, the Ranchero and the El Camino were pick-up trucks with sedan styling. It other words, they looked like a sedan in the front, but had a pick-up truck bed. The Ranchero was the Ford Motor Company's version and the El Camino was Chevrolet's version. They were built mostly in the late 1950's through the 1980's. They are quite popular with some car collectors today. I know a couple of guys who have more than one.

And I try not to let it get under my skin when I hear someone ask, "Hey Carl, are you walking the El Camino again?" I just bite my tongue and say "Yes".
 
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HedaP

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances starting SJPdP Sept/Oct 2015, April/May 2017
My favourite camino string of words in the real sense of the word is 'A pilgrim does NOT complain'. If I keep doing caminos I might eventually meet that goal.
As for words that bug me, I can't think of any. People on the other hand...;)
PS. Yay, I've finally discovered how to put in the little faces. Surely those bug someone? :p
 
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Gillean

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Seven
For me, it's just 4 words
"The Camino will provide"
Drives me potty I'm afraid!
Bought a Valor chocolate bar to give to a friend as a birthday present on the Camino. Couldn't find any wrapping paper so I wrapped it in toilet tissue stained with yellow streaks from a highlighter. I told him that the Camino had provided.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Hike doesn't bother me, nor a lot of other words people might use. However, whenever I see 'true pilgrim' other than in @JabbaPapa's tag line, I know my ears prick up! I have come to realize that it is normally the preamble to a list of characteristics that I know I am not going to achieve.

Thanks :p -- it's the "real pilgrim" one that actually annoys me a bit, because there seem to be so many "real pilgrims" who simply fail to realise that's exactly what they already are, and instead have all sorts of unrealistic expectations of what it should mean or what they "must" do in order to "become" one.

OTOH "hike"/"walk"/"trail" and the like bother me not in the slightest, because from the simply material POV, they're not inaccurate.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
yes. This makes me wonder, too.
I used to think these "The Camino Provides" great expectations were setting people up for disappointment and suffering. But when I thought it the whole way through? I have to admit, provision DOES happen on the camino, just not in some magical way. Often the Camino provides via YOUR enterprise, YOU stepping outside your comfort zone, YOU setting aside your pride and asking someone for help... or even YOUR MasterCard!
So maybe these pilgrims are speaking from a deeper wisdom. Or just middle-class privilege?

Think it's really a bit of both Bekkah -- and it's by no means "the Camino will provide" as no, sometimes it just simple jolly well won't, at least not in the way that you may think you want it to. The Camino can also provide something that in the moment you want to reject or flee, but might later turn out to have been in fact the very thing you needed.

But hmmmm -- actually yes, the Camino can actually provide "in some magical way", but that's pretty rare in my experience, and one should never expect it as some kind of "due" or "entitlement".

But yes, mostly it's for us and through us and by us, alternatively, that the saying can be at its truest. Your "often the Camino provides via YOUR enterprise, YOU stepping outside your comfort zone, YOU setting aside your pride and asking someone for help... or even YOUR MasterCard" is completely spot on.
 
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HedaP

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances starting SJPdP Sept/Oct 2015, April/May 2017
It was some kind person on this forum that alerted me to a set of youtube videos I thoroughly enjoyed from the comfort of my armchair called The Universe Provides: Camino de Santiago sin nada. Filmed by a delightful, young, and probably middle class, Spanish fellow who tested 'the camino will provide' concept by walking the CF without money.
 

marilyn van graan

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2012) VDLP (2014) Portuguese (2015)
Hike doesn't bother me, nor a lot of other words people might use. However, whenever I see 'true pilgrim' other than in @JabbaPapa's tag line, I know my ears prick up! I have come to realize that it is normally the preamble to a list of characteristics that I know I am not going to achieve.
"True Pilgrim" now that irks me - what makes a pilgrim true or false - it is your journey no matter how you choose to do it and enjoy it.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
"True Pilgrim" now that irks me - what makes a pilgrim true or false - it is your journey no matter how you choose to do it and enjoy it.

yeah let's not have this discussion -- it always ends badly.

No pilgrim is in any case "better" than any other pilgrim ; I'll just say that "true pilgrim" is NOT the "opposite" of "false pilgrim" ; the "false pilgrim" is one who abuses the hospitality offered to pilgrims under false pretenses. It's the professional thief, going from albergue to albergue to grab your stuff ; it's the cheapskate tourist, driving from place to place but pretending to walk ; the sexual predator, the murderer, the con artist. And so on.

Nobody who actually walks, or cycles, or skateboards, or rides, or unicycles, or whatever the Camino in the normal fashion is a "false" pilgrim compared to a "true" one.

I'll say nothing more on this subject, that's already been beaten to death elsewhere in the forums.
 
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notion900

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
>
I've met someone who was walking without money, and someone who said his boots were stolen so he carried on barefoot. Philosophy or attention-seeking? TBH I found them both a bit annoying. Often the quietest most unassuming pilgrim is the one I admire most. Like a 90 year old German man I met sitting silently outside a bar in Boimorto, Galicia, enjoying the sun, who had just walked from Stuttgart.

Oh another annoying words thing is people who go on about charging their devices all the time, like some kind of disaster will occur if you have an hour without email. My first camino I left my mobile phone at home, and guess what - I'm still alive!
 
S

Satírico

Guest
It was some kind person on this forum that alerted me to a set of youtube videos I thoroughly enjoyed from the comfort of my armchair called The Universe Provides: Camino de Santiago sin nada. Filmed by a delightful, young, and probably middle class, Spanish fellow who tested 'the camino will provide' concept by walking the CF without money.

Many thanks!

Must stop watching...itchy feet;)
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
2019
I have to admit, provision DOES happen on the camino, just not in some magical way.
The only thing that is guaranteed to be provided on the Camino is stuff to work with, let go of, and get over. There seems to be an endless supply of that.
The way the phrase usually get used to sounds to me like new-age-speak--and nails on the chalkboard.

There's a whole new world of grace that lies beyond...
Amen. And ease. What a relief simple contentment is; it always feels like a gift from beyond.
 
S

Satírico

Guest
I've met someone who was walking without money, and someone who said his boots were stolen so he carried on barefoot. Philosophy or attention-seeking? TBH I found them both a bit annoying. Often the quietest most unassuming pilgrim is the one I admire most. Like a 90 year old German man I met sitting silently outside a bar in Boimorto, Galicia, enjoying the sun, who had just walked from Stuttgart.

Oh another annoying words thing is people who go on about charging their devices all the time, like some kind of disaster will occur if you have an hour without email. My first camino I left my mobile phone at home, and guess what - I'm still alive!

Maybe next time I'll go without phone or camera. I'm not ready for mendicant walking yet.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I've met someone who was walking without money, and someone who said his boots were stolen so he carried on barefoot. Philosophy or attention-seeking? TBH I found them both a bit annoying.

What would be the point of that ?

I had all of my money stolen on the Way to Rome in 2000, after about a week -- I carried on, not for "philosophy" nor "attention", but because once you're on the Way, you just carry on 'til the end, no matter what.

My boots broke in 1994, and were irreplaceable because my feet are too big for the sizes that were available in Spain -- so I carried on with straw espadrilles, which was just barely above barefoot, breaking two pairs of those as well. And yes, there was a small amount of barefoot involved. So what ? If I'd been able to get workable replacement boots I would have.

And sorry, but I don't really care much for the fact that you think that the difficulties of others are "annoying".
 
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tomnorth

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances: September 24 - October 31 (2015)
:eek:No, my apologies. The caldo thing was a general comment.

I'll give The Way another chance and see how often they say 'el camino' (if at all).

:)
I've watched this show more times than I can count. I do not believe they call it el Camino. The names I recall them using are the Camino, the Camino de Santiago and The Way of St. James.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
De colores?
Hi Philip,
When I saw your question mark....I went and looked up the words.
De Colores is a Spanish expression which means in colours.

If there are sad moments in life,there are also other times when we see everything in colour.

For lovers for example,the sun shines and life is beautiful.

Also read that it comes from from a song called "De Colores" ........which is borrowed from Mexican folklore which expresses the joy of living and exalts the beauty of creation.

So there you have it........a lovely expression isn't it.........and it just took 2 words!!
And it's catchy! I'll be repeating this as we move along the Camino...

And as Robert 526 said above...Eschew verbosity.....

And yes,I'll admit it....I had to look up those two words as well!!!!!
Best wishes Annette
 
S

Satírico

Guest
Hi Philip,
When I saw your question mark....I went and looked up the words.
De Colores is a Spanish expression which means in colours.

If there are sad moments in life,there are also other times when we see everything in colour.

For lovers for example,the sun shines and life is beautiful.

Also read that it comes from from a song called "De Colores" ........which is borrowed from Mexican folklore which expresses the joy of living and exalts the beauty of creation.

So there you have it........a lovely expression isn't it.........and it just took 2 words!!
And it's catchy! I'll be repeating this as we move along the Camino...

And as Robert 526 said above...Eschew verbosity.....

And yes,I'll admit it....I had to look up those two words as well!!!!!
Best wishes Annette

Many thanks Annette (& LMSundaze). I like that explanation better than my first word association, which was with Lord of the Rings.

de colores, peregrinas.
 

Reija

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2016, CP 2017, Jakobsweg Ulm-Constance 2017-2018, Via Jacobi 2018, (Via Gebennensis 2019)
"It's my camino"--or some version of "my camino/your camino."
We don't own it, for starters. It just is, and has been for a long time before us and probably after us.

But where this gets me is when people use it to as a justification or excuse for behavior that's inconsiderate, selfish, or otherwise blameworthy. Fortunately that kind of usage is not so common, at least here--or actually out there, either. But if people in albergues bristle at being politely asked to be considerate of others, using this kind of language......
It seriously gets me.:confused:
A sweet experience with "No, it's your camino": Once my daughter and I shared a four bed room with a lovely Spanish couple. Having realized that the Spaniards often like sleeping a bit later than the early risers I suggested we'll set our alarms to suit everyone in the room. No, no, no way, this is YOUR Camino. Get up as early as you want to, they insisted.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
A sweet experience with "No, it's your camino": Once my daughter and I shared a four bed room with a lovely Spanish couple. Having realized that the Spaniards often like sleeping a bit later than the early risers I suggested we'll set our alarms to suit everyone in the room. No, no, no way, this is YOUR Camino. Get up as early as you want to, they insisted.

hmmm, next time just don't set them at all maybe ?

The only way to set your alarm to suit "everyone in the room" is to just dump it in the trash before setting foot on the Camino.

Your alarm will bug me personally far more than any simple words that some people might dislike ...

Sure, it's your Camino -- but it's mine too, and the next guy's, and that poor blistered girl's over there as well, and that utterly knackered chap who's just had the Camino stage from hell, all of whose needed rests your alarm is going to destroy.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
A sweet experience with "No, it's your camino": Once my daughter and I shared a four bed room with a lovely Spanish couple. Having realized that the Spaniards often like sleeping a bit later than the early risers I suggested we'll set our alarms to suit everyone in the room. No, no, no way, this is YOUR Camino. Get up as early as you want to, they insisted.
I think the Spaniards like sleeping later in the morning cuz they party in the streets until 5:00am!...well, maybe not the ones walking the Camino!
 

Glenn Rowe

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
.
A sweet experience with "No, it's your camino": Once my daughter and I shared a four bed room with a lovely Spanish couple. Having realized that the Spaniards often like sleeping a bit later than the early risers I suggested we'll set our alarms to suit everyone in the room. No, no, no way, this is YOUR Camino. Get up as early as you want to, they insisted.

Another vote for "your/my/our Camino" when it refers to ones' personal experiences on a specific journey! And a great story to boot!
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
hmmm, next time just don't set them at all maybe ?

The only way to set your alarm to suit "everyone in the room" is to just dump it in the trash before setting foot on the Camino.

Your alarm will bug me personally far more than any simple words that some people might dislike ...

Sure, it's your Camino -- but it's mine too, and the next guy's, and that poor blistered girl's over there as well, and that utterly knackered chap who's just had the Camino stage from hell, all of whose needed rests your alarm is going to destroy.
Yes! Please don't set audible alarms. If you must have an alarm set it to vibrate only.
 

tillyjones

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances June 2015
VDLP May 2017
del Norte Sept 2018
As a British English speaker, 'doing' a place sounds horrible, like when tourists say 'we are doing Stratford tomorrow and Oxford on Thursday'. Also saying things like Paris, France, or London, England drives us spare.

Just saying![/QUOTE]

Being a Canadian, well, everywhere here seems to be named after somewhere else. I sit here working in Stratford, Ontario, which is nearby to London, Ontario before I head home to Cambridge, which is just 20 minutes from Paris. So around these parts, especially in an international forum like this, there could be a lot of confusion if we didn't specify!
 

Reija

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2016, CP 2017, Jakobsweg Ulm-Constance 2017-2018, Via Jacobi 2018, (Via Gebennensis 2019)
I think the Spaniards like sleeping later in the morning cuz they party in the streets until 5:00am!...well, maybe not the ones walking the Camino!
Ha ha, that is a rather cool experience to start walking when the locals are still dancing. Loved it! And loved the shared experience of this parallel universe with other pilgrims. How we had blissfully slept through all the partying and drank our morning coffee in the coolness of the dawn and quietly hit the road. Wonderful.
 

Paddington Bear

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
May 2017
I was always confused about some of the terminology, too, on walking vs hiking. Here's a good website describing the differences.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Hiking_vs_Trekking

You are not allowing for cultural differences. In Australia we go bushwalking. It might be a half day stroll or a 5 day backpacking experience but it is still bushwalking.

Telling someone to "take a hike" is an entirely different thing. :)
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Another vote for "your/my/our Camino" when it refers to ones' personal experiences on a specific journey! And a great story to boot!

I don't think you've understood how the Spaniards think -- their allowances for antisocial foreign behaviour does not constitute happiness with it.
 
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Marigold Mama

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
April-May 2018 Madrid, Salvador& Primitivo and onward
Where is SJPP?
Thanks for opening this up for my two cents worth. Being new and never doing a camino or even being in Spain when some post a name of a village/town I haven't a clue which camino they are speaking of. Sure wish this would be taken into considerations.

While I am at this I might as well answer another previously post (Viranani) said about using the term "My Camino". I will continue to use such because it IS "My Camino"! no one is doing it for me and so I put claim to it as being mine. So if this is offensive I won't apologize. Let it go; let it be...
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
>
I don't really care much for the fact that you think that the difficulties of others are "annoying".
Maybe I sound harsh but I just felt like they were making a point. The guy who lost his boots didn't seem to ask around to see if spares could be found, I think he felt like it was some kind of sudden spiritual test maybe, and he was going to rise to it by lacerating his soles on gravel. I don't know. The other guy was living off handouts and trying to prove that the world is miraculous, I guess. I am just giving an honest reaction to the way they presented themselves to me, not their difficulties per se. I am approached by people begging at least six or seven times every day in my own daily life in London (most recently ten minutes ago), and I work with ex-homeless ex-addicts/alcoholics whose lives are still precarious, and so inevitably I am going to view someone living off handouts on a pilgrimage or playing at martyrdom when they have a nice home to go back to with slightly less sympathy than someone actually poor from my everyday life here in 'the world's greatest city'.
 

Doogman

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
?
As a British English speaker, 'doing' a place sounds horrible, like when tourists say 'we are doing Stratford tomorrow and Oxford on Thursday'. Also saying things like Paris, France, or London, England drives us spare.

Just saying!

Being a Canadian, well, everywhere here seems to be named after somewhere else. I sit here working in Stratford, Ontario, which is nearby to London, Ontario before I head home to Cambridge, which is just 20 minutes from Paris. So around these parts, especially in an international forum like this, there could be a lot of confusion if we didn't specify![/QUOTE]

And in the same general vicinity there is a Dublin, a Zurich, a Brussels, a Windsor, etc., etc.
 

Marigold Mama

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
April-May 2018 Madrid, Salvador& Primitivo and onward
what d
Thanks :p -- it's the "real pilgrim" one that actually annoys me a bit, because there seem to be so many "real pilgrims" who simply fail to realise that's exactly what they already are, and instead have all sorts of unrealistic expectations of what it should mean or what they "must" do in order to "become" one.

OTOH "hike"/"walk"/"trail" and the like bother me not in the slightest, because from the simply material POV, they're not inaccurate.

What does "POV" stand for?
 
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