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I only walked the Camino Frances in 2006 but have done four Caminos in total (the last being the Camino Portugues in 2020). My experience is that "Camino Families" tend to be welcoming. Those with limited language skills may be limited to a smaller community of pilgrims but very many travel alone and start at different points along the way. If one is unable to coincide with people for more than one day, however, there will likely not be the time or common experience needed to form meaningful relationships. Such fellowship really only grows after coming across one another and staying in some hostels or breaking bread together over a period of time...Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
Gosh, what an interesting question. I’m sure what you describe does happen sometimes on the Camino. It stands to reason that it would. It’s a common group dynamic, albeit that some doing the ‘excluding’ may be oblivious to the impact on the solo walker.Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with?
Actually, depending on your inclination and the people around you, there may be value in adjusting your walking schedule to NOT stick with the same basic group you started with.is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with?
Same.I have not had a camino family.
He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that.
Perhaps ask yourself a different question. Do you really want to shape your Camino to ‘ensure you stick with the same group from the beginning’, for its own sake - or walk your own way, at your own pace, with an open mind and trusting that it will work out and be a challenging and wonderful experience for you.
I think there is a difference between adjusting your walking pace and adjusting your walking schedule to stick with a Camino family. Just about all the advice I've read comes out strongly against adjusting your walking pace, mentioning the downsides in terms of increased risk if physical injury, which could put your Camino at risk. On the other hand, I've also often seen that people will adjust their schedule to keep with a Camino family, such as bussing ahead to catch up if they've had to stop for a few days due to injury, or staying back with someone who has to stop due to injury. They see the value in it. Not everyone does so, though. Others are content to let go of the Camino family and continue without them, perhaps joining a new one and perhaps not.Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I
that is pretty much my approach, I love meeting people, sharing moments, but, for example, I avoid giving my mobile number to other pilgrims; if I see them I will be very happy, but I refuse to be receiving whatsapps of people telling me where they are at every minute (or a photo of a beer). In fact, I also try to avoid certain people for different reasons, and I normally just fly ahead and do longer stages when that happens. This said, I do not go with a preset attitude, I just go as I feel, and, above all, follow my own instinct and my own pace above any social conventions.Actually, depending on your inclination and the people around you, there may be value in adjusting your walking schedule to NOT stick with the same basic group you started with.
I found myself with a family - a group of truly lovely people. But I began to feel like I was on a school field trip and I didn't really want that. I deliberately distanced myself so I could be myself, and interact independently without a constant family around me! I wanted to be free of expectations from others. I still occasionally met up with familiar faces and that was fun.
The whole issue of Camino families can be complicated. Don't feel you need to sign onto one! Not everyone does,. Don't assume others walking together one day (or a week) will stay together for the whole route.
Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
Thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail have a saying: hike your own hike (HYOH). Put another way, you will never be satisfied hiking at someone else’s pace, stopping when they want to stop, eating where they want to eat, staying where they want to stay. The more people in a group, the lower the chance of HYOH. Hike by yourself and you will interact much more with the locals. As Leonardo da Vinci said, “While you are alone you are completely yourself; and if you are accompanied by even one other person you are but half yourself.”Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
My Camino family morphed as some left and some started along the way...don't think we were "unfriendly" to anyone along the way. We even had a "tandem" group that we often socialized with when we met up. Of course we wouldn't have invited someone to join in our albergue reservations if we didn't feel they were compatible with the group in some way (we ranged in age from 28 - 72). I don't call that being exclusive.Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
I have been four times on the Camino and i have always walked solo. I always speak to other walkers be they walking alone, like me. or in a group. I don't know if I have just been lucky but I have always been welcomed and have seen different people at different stages. I have had people who walked faster than me leave messages with other friends to wish me well or check on me. I have always spent a week in Santiago after finishing and met up for meals with others who have got there before me of arrived afterwards. Even now almost 10 years after my first Camino I am still in touch with friends from each journey.Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
As a sólo walker I enjoyed moments of solitude and was happy when that was broken by a "buen camino" and follow up conversation. Everybody wants/needs something different. I met an interesting French gentleman who enjoyed conversation at a coffee stop but may it clear, by his demeanour, that whilst walking, he would not talk. I respected his choice and although are paths often crossed, one would pass the other silently. Others would appear out of nowhere, whooping at having crossed paths again. For me, that whole experience of interaction was fascinating. Enjoy and buen caminoWalk your own pace.
In my experience, you'll meet exactly the people you need to meet (not necessarily the ones you want to meet).
If you end up walking alone for some time, use that alone time for reflexion, meditation, whatever you want to call it. It's all part of the package. Don't try to force anything, adapt to the current situation.
If you walk with the expectation to be part of a fixed camino family all the way to the end, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It is not something you can plan. Just walk with an open mind, and amazing things can happen.
Most pilgrims, solo walkers as well as 'camino families' (even many organized tour group pilgrims!) are very open towards others. If someone is not, accept it, respect their boundaries.
It is very easy to connect with people on the camino, if you want to. Don't worry
Buen Camino!
On my first Camino my experience was similar. I enjoyed being part of a Camino family, it happened organically - probably because we all started at SJPDP, and spoke English - with a disproportionately high number of Kiwis, Aussies, and Canadians.Camino 'families' seem to be more of a Camino Frances phenomenon I think.
Probably due to the greater numbers of people.
I wouldn't stress about it.
There are both good and not so good aspects to Camino families.
On my first Camino, I was a rather loose member of two.
Only because I walked very slowly and stayed in private accommodation mainly.
I noticed some groups were very tight.
Often staying in the same place, eating together etc.
That can be nice or rather suffocating depending on your perspective.
My first 'family' was a great bunch of people. Maybe 20 all up.
I would see them every now and again and join them for meals etc.
There was probably a 'tight' group of 10 and others who would float in and out of the group like me.
I know some of the group walked the whole CF together...
As I was walking slowly I got left behind by that group.
And all the 'familiar' faces I knew had also moved on ahead of me.
At that time, I think I worked out 300 Pilgrims had started in St Jean the day I left.
So as you would expect, you get to know a lot of people, some by name, some by sight.
But by about 2 weeks, all of those people had moved ahead.
For a couple of days I actually felt quite lonely! LOL
Even though I was surrounded by lots of other Pilgrims.
Lonely in a crowd type of thing.
And of course many of these 'new' Pilgrims, had also already formed into loose groups.
So I ended up with my second family.
Again, great people.
A rather different, looser group, as many were staying in private accommodation.
But we all ended up on a Whatsapp group and would check in now and again, to see where people were staying and if anyone wanted to meet up for dinner.
And then after 10 days or so...........
I got left behind again LOL
I don't think I saw anyone from either group in Santiago.
They arrived well ahead of me.
So what is worth noting from these experiences?
- Whilst I was a very loose 'member' of these groups, I usually walked alone due to my speed.
- Often the most interesting people I met and those with whom I made the strongest connection, were also walking alone.
- Catching up with the 'family' at dinner was fun, but I only did so maybe 25-30% of the time. Other times I was in a different town, or different part of town, or had made other arrangements.
- You don't need to be in a Camino family to have a great Camino. In fact I would say, you might be better not being in one, as you'll make more of an effort to meet a broader range of people and you won't feel 'obliged' to walk to and stay in specific places.
- In my last 100kms, I was down to about 10 kms per day due to injury. It took forever from Sarria! But I made a point of embracing it and chatting to many of the 'new' pilgrims who had started in Sarria. I met some amazing and inspiring people...
- You must walk at your own pace. Don't try to match your pace / distance with others. (it leads to injury amongst other things) If you drop out of the 'family' you'll meet other people along the way.
Just some random thoughts and perspectives..........
Sorry, to answer your question specifically.
Camino “families” - how cliquey or impenetrable are they mid-way through a Camino?
Some might be, some aren't. Those I joined weren't.
But, why would you even worry about it?
On the more popular routes you'll always find someone to talk to. eat with....
But the Camino to me is more about the inner journey.
That's why my next one will be more remote
I have only done 3 caminos - all the Frances. The first two we great, friendly inclusive etc. The last was relatively lonely as the groups were primarily language based and many of the others we married couples. There were very few solo walkers like myself. Having said that the lessons learned were incredible and would not have been possible had the circumstances not been as they were. I remind myself that the pigrimage is "my Camino" and what it is, is my context for growth etc. Buen camino!Gosh, what an interesting question. I’m sure what you describe does happen sometimes on the Camino. It stands to reason that it would. It’s a common group dynamic, albeit that some doing the ‘excluding’ may be oblivious to the impact on the solo walker.
And I would echo observations by @dick bird that it’s possibly a more common feature on the Frances, though I have no facts to support that. Forum members who have walked the Frances and other highly populated caminos In recent years may have a better take on that.
In the years when I walked solo, I walked loosely with various people from time to time and enjoyed their company. But in terms of pace, distances, where I wanted to spend the night, and wanting to be alone, I frequently made the decision (sometimes difficult at the time) to stride ahead (or in your case it might be to step back). It led to different experiences and people I would otherwise have missed.
Perhaps ask yourself a different question. Do you really want to shape your Camino to ‘ensure you stick with the same group from the beginning’, for its own sake - or walk your own way, at your own pace, with an open mind and trusting that it will work out and be a challenging and wonderful experience for you.
All the best.
That's my preference. For example - I don't want to wake up at 5am because that's the consensus of the group. Or conversely, I like to start walking before I stop for breakfast, and there are many who won't step foot on the trail until they have eaten, and I don't want to wait for them. That's the beauty of the Camino - you can do it your way and enjoy the company of others.Although we left at the same time each morning, we didnt actually walk together though - just met up in the afternoon, and decided where to head to the next day. I enjoyed walking alone.
There are a few annoying pilgrims, (oh yes), on any Camino, just like in ‘real’ life! But on the whole, I found them all a pretty friendly and interesting bunch.Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. As I expected, there were many different viewpoints, as this is a very nuanced question.
Personally, I'm looking forward to walking alone. This isn't a "holiday" I'm planning for - it's some badly needed mental therapy (or perhaps just that tired old cliche of me looking to "find" myself...).
That said, it's mostly dinner time that I would be wanting some company. I've backpacked all over the world alone, and I know from past experience that eating dinner alone is perhaps the loneliest part of the day. Shared pilgrim meals at the albergue will be fine, as there will be a built in group of pilgrims there, and someone seated next to me. But private restaurants are a different matter, and in those cases it would be nice to have company on some of the days.
I hear you when you say it might be just as desirable to lose your camino family as it is to stick with them. And I am more than happy to adjust my schedule if I need to break loose.
As always, I appreciate the wisdom and generosity that gets shared on this forum. I do wonder however if this forum tends to attract the best of the pilgrim crowd, and I'm being spoiled, and in for a rude awakening when I meet all the really annoying pilgrims that haven't joined this site...
And who knows? We may be the one annoying pilgrim for someone else.There are a few annoying pilgrims, (oh yes), on any Camino, just like in ‘real’ life
Now and again I've added a few km to my day just to make sure of leaving some prime specimens well behind me. Quite possible that others have done the same with me in mind. You get all sorts on the Caminos...There are a few annoying pilgrims, (oh yes), on any Camino, just like in ‘real’ life!
I did the same on Via de la PlataNow and again I've added a few km to my day just to make sure of leaving some prime specimens well behind me. Quite possible that others have done the same with me in mind. You get all sorts on the Caminos...
Thinking of Via de la Plata makes me answer you, @Robo .Camino 'families' seem to be more of a Camino Frances phenomenon I think.
Probably due to the greater numbers of people.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I walked many caminos before participating in this forum - there are many more pilgrms than there are members of this forum. And like many people, I can no doubt be regarded at different times as charming and annoying, and not necessarily in equal parts (smiley face)I do wonder however if this forum tends to attract the best of the pilgrim crowd, and I'm being spoiled, and in for a rude awakening when I meet all the really annoying pilgrims that haven't joined this site...
Thinking of Via de la Plata makes me answer you, @Robo .
i walked it in Summer and there was only a handful of us, very difficult to get out of this ’family’ thing, when there are fewer places to stop, either for drinks or for accommodation and we all walk more or less at the same pace! It is much easier to feel alone on the Camino francés.
I walked with my husband that year and we actually did much longer distances just to be away from the ‘group’!
As always, I appreciate the wisdom and generosity that gets shared on this forum. I do wonder however if this forum tends to attract the best of the pilgrim crowd, and I'm being spoiled, and in for a rude awakening when I meet all the really annoying pilgrims that haven't joined this site...
Is he walking at the moment or recently?I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis.
I don't know about that! Some of us can be quite annoying and may even be harder to avoid!I do wonder however if this forum tends to attract the best of the pilgrim crowd
But the VDLP attracts older and more independent-minded people, who are less likely to look for a family type of attachment. You can have the same people at the end of each day but with less expectation of group activity. I found that to be perfect.Thinking of Via de la Plata makes me answer you, @Robo .
i walked it in Summer and there was only a handful of us, very difficult to get out of this ’family’ thing
That would be quite the story to read, if someone were to write it up. It would bust the myth that the Camino is some magical spiritual disneyland, but a real-life place with real-life dynamics. More people are kind than not along the way, but stuff still happens.The tightest family I ever observed were pleasant around Logroño, monopolizing kitchen resources by Leon, and imploding with resentments by Santiago
I walk alone and have observed a number of camino families. I’ve dined and socialized on the periphery of some of them. Most of them were loosely connected and some were quite porous. The tightest family I ever observed were pleasant around Logroño, monopolizing kitchen resources by Leon, and imploding with resentments by Santiago.
I’ve found kindred spirits mostly amongst those walking alone or in pairs. But I’m somewhat introverted so that’s to be expected.
…and because I’m an old guy on a bike, that may very well be me. When I sit down to eat, no-one will be familiar, and I can tell you that such a gesture would be always very welcome. Perhaps this contributes to my preference for the VdlP. There are so few pilgrims in the hotter months that everyone interacts spontaneously.…one of us will always go over to them and say ‘you’re probably enjoying your alone time after a long day but, if you feel like some company, you are very welcome to eat with us’.…
What a great thing to do!So … fast forward to more recent years when I’ve either walked with my husband or a friend. If we see a pilgrim eating alone at dinner, one of us will always go over to them and say ‘you’re probably enjoying your alone time after a long day but, if you feel like some company, you are very welcome to eat with us’
Hi Jack. Someone did that for me once on my first Camino. I appreciated it and never forgot.What a great thing to do!
I met several people that I encountered more than once but never had anything like a "family" and really did not want that kind of interaction. The walk, for me, was for reflection, and just enjoying the moment, or coping with it, as in rain and mud. Several times I had a meal with people who were at the Albergue where i was staying and that was pleasant. Or met someone I had seen before and had a chat. But it's only here on the Forum that I even thought about the "family" idea. Not anti-social, and do not mean to be critical of anyone else's experience and preference, but did not ever see the Camino as a place where it was necessary to make a "group" of any kind.Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
See this earlier post re some patterns of walking.
Very well said indeed!
I think it might be a bit confusing how one understands the meaning of “Camino family” because the term “family” somehow suggests shared duties and responsibilities, or a common purpose at least.
I have mostly walked solo, but I would say that every pilgrim whom I met on Camino, or even elsewhere was regarded belonging to the much wider family of people who have chosen the Way.
I can understand that very well. My wife has walked a couple of Caminos, the Shikoku temple circuit and other long distance routes. But our paces and styles of walking and "comfort zone" for accommodation and planning are so different that walking together for many days would be hard for either of us to handle. So we support each other in whatever either one chooses to do solo.So whilst I love my wife dearly...........we may not walk a Camino together again
(and she understands and agrees)
I think the common purpose of walking to Santiago is an important element in Camino fellowship.I think it might be a bit confusing how one understands the meaning of “Camino family” because the term “family” somehow suggests shared duties and responsibilities, or a common purpose at least.
Perfectly put, @koknesis!I usually find myself being torn between “home sweet home” where actually my family is and “Camino sweat Camino” where nobody is a stranger …
You mean to say that you never heard of Jeff Chaucer's Stories from my Camino Family on their Way to Canterbury???So this family thing. Where did it come from, anyway? I wouldn't be at all surprised if it became especially common after The Way was released.
You mean to say that you never heard of Jeff Chaucer's Stories from my Camino Family on their Way to Canterbury???
… and they also would "reserve" seats for themselves at the albergue breakfast tables by placing their own plates/cups to hold their spots while they left to get themselves ready in the mornings before returning to make their own food. I thought it presumptuous and a rather rude thing to do.
I didn't say that it is exclusive to a certain nationality. Just wanted to use it as an example that something that might feel rude to one person will be totally normal to another. Set breakfast table first in the morning, then go back to bathroom to wash/dress, then finally return to the table to eat together with your friends or family when everybody is ready? sounds totally normal and not rude at all to me, for example...!This type of behavior isn't exclusive to one nationality. I have seen it in resorts with few if any Germans.
I agree with you that I have to remain open minded. To set the breakfast table first thing in a shared facility and return to it when all in your party are ready to eat together, renders the table unavailable to those who may wish to use it while your party is getting ready. That doesn’t seem totally normal to me, but I will work on remaining open minded.Set breakfast table first in the morning, then go back to bathroom to wash/dress, then finally return to the table to eat together with your friends or family when everybody is ready? sounds totally normal and not rude at all to me, for example...!
One more reason to stay open minded during the walk.
If I went into an albergue with breakfast included and saw the table set already and nobody there I would assume that it was meant for anybody and placed there by the host/hospitalero. I would just get to chowing down, no doubt getting a stare later when the table setter arrived, lol.I didn't say that it is exclusive to a certain nationality. Just wanted to use it as an example that something that might feel rude to one person will be totally normal to another. Set breakfast table first in the morning, then go back to bathroom to wash/dress, then finally return to the table to eat together with your friends or family when everybody is ready? sounds totally normal and not rude at all to me, for example...!
In my experience, many of the things that are considered 'rude' by some pilgrims are cases of cultural misunderstanding or simply not being used to something that is totally normal to many others in this world.
One more reason to stay open minded during the walk.
My experience with the young people was not at albergues where any breakfast was included. They had their own plates and cups and set them out much earlir than needed, while others would have appreciated a place to sit and eat. I'm not trying to be contrary here, I was simply recalling a few off-putting experiences by a group of six persons.If I went into an albergue with breakfast included and saw the table set already and nobody there I would assume that it was meant for anybody and placed there by the host/hospitalero. I would just get to chowing down, no doubt getting a stare later when the table setter arrived, lol.
They had their own plates and cups and set them out much earlir than needed
This of course assume everyone has to play by their rules. Who says? You can actually just move the stuff aside if they're not there. Not with anger or resentment, just making space for yourself.To set the breakfast table first thing in a shared facility and return to it when all in your party are ready to eat together, renders the table unavailable to those who may wish to use it while your party is getting ready.
Good point, @trecile.We also need to be aware of cultural differences. To many Americans the lack of a smile from a stranger can seem unfriendly, but I understand that other cultures may consider the omnipresent smiling of some Americans as suspicious. As in "why is she smiling so much? Does she want something from me?" Neither way is wrong, just different.
This article about Why Americans Smile So Much is interesting. Especially this observation:
Here’s how one Reddit user in Finland put it:
When a stranger on the street smiles at you:
a. you assume he is drunk
b. he is insane
c. he’s an American
I would think it would be normal if it was your own home or hotel room, but in a facility like an albergue, with shared facilities, depriving others of the space in the meantime I think would earn them at the least a few dirty looks.I didn't say that it is exclusive to a certain nationality. Just wanted to use it as an example that something that might feel rude to one person will be totally normal to another. Set breakfast table first in the morning, then go back to bathroom to wash/dress, then finally return to the table to eat together with your friends or family when everybody is ready? sounds totally normal and not rude at all to me, for example...!
In my experience, many of the things that are considered 'rude' by some pilgrims are cases of cultural misunderstanding or simply not being used to something that is totally normal to many others in this world.
One more reason to stay open minded during the walk.
I only walked the Camino Frances in 2006 but have done four Caminos in total (the last being the Camino Portugues in 2020). My experience is that "Camino Families" tend to be welcoming. Those with limited language skills may be limited to a smaller community of pilgrims but very many travel alone and start at different points along the way. If one is unable to coincide with people for more than one day, however, there will likely not be the time or common experience needed to form meaningful relationships. Such fellowship really only grows after coming across one another and staying in some hostels or breaking bread together over a period of time...
The Camino is your Camino. You make of it what you want. It is your attitude that makes the experience great or negative.Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
And it is true that we have not deleted the many comments about how the Portuguese people are the kindest and most helpful people in the world, but seemingly undergo a personality change when they get behind the wheel of a car.
And for the record, let’s note that he is NOT Portuguese.You just described my better half.
I can speak with some authority here, having lived in Portugal for three years and I can endorse the view that they really are among the kindest and most helpful people in the world. I can also endorse the view that driving standards in Portugal are not of the highest, not only that but pretty well every Portuguese person will cheerfully, or in embarrassment, admit it. But I drove there for all of those three years and lived to tell the tale so they can't be that bad.We may be kind of trigger happy when it comes to deleting references to cultural stereotypes because of how threads have gone south in the past. You can all surely think of several groups/races/countries where generalizations would be destructive of the good vibe we try to preserve here, especially since we have such a diverse group of members from every corner of the globe. We recognize that all of what was recently said was said in good fun, but I hope everyone can understand why we want to steer clear of discussions that could lead to more negative venting.
Sometimes people whose comments are deleted go off in a huff, and that is NOT our intent. So I am glad that @good_old_shoes took this all in the spirit it was offered. And if members disagree or have questions about our decisions, writing a PM is easy and we will respond.
This thread made me start thinking about the cultural stereotypes that have emerged on the forum and asking myself whether we have been consistent in our approach. And it is true that we have not deleted the many comments about how the Portuguese people are the kindest and most helpful people in the world, but seemingly undergo a personality change when they get behind the wheel of a car.So there is admittedly a difficult line here, but we do try hard to keep things positive.
This really resonated; the same was true in another totally different, but in some ways parallel, context: offshore travel in a sailboat.Thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail have a saying: hike your own hike (HYOH). Hike by yourself and you will interact much more with the locals. As Leonardo da Vinci said, “While you are alone you are completely yourself; and if you are accompanied by even one other person you are but half yourself.”
Yup, yup yuppp...lol going down memory lane.Camino 'families' seem to be more of a Camino Frances phenomenon I think.
Probably due to the greater numbers of people.
I wouldn't stress about it.
There are both good and not so good aspects to Camino families.
On my first Camino, I was a rather loose member of two.
Only because I walked very slowly and stayed in private accommodation mainly.
I noticed some groups were very tight.
Often staying in the same place, eating together etc.
That can be nice or rather suffocating depending on your perspective.
My first 'family' was a great bunch of people. Maybe 20 all up.
I would see them every now and again and join them for meals etc.
There was probably a 'tight' group of 10 and others who would float in and out of the group like me.
I know some of the group walked the whole CF together...
As I was walking slowly I got left behind by that group.
And all the 'familiar' faces I knew had also moved on ahead of me.
At that time, I think I worked out 300 Pilgrims had started in St Jean the day I left.
So as you would expect, you get to know a lot of people, some by name, some by sight.
But by about 2 weeks, all of those people had moved ahead.
For a couple of days I actually felt quite lonely! LOL
Even though I was surrounded by lots of other Pilgrims.
Lonely in a crowd type of thing.
And of course many of these 'new' Pilgrims, had also already formed into loose groups.
So I ended up with my second family.
Again, great people.
A rather different, looser group, as many were staying in private accommodation.
But we all ended up on a Whatsapp group and would check in now and again, to see where people were staying and if anyone wanted to meet up for dinner.
And then after 10 days or so...........
I got left behind again LOL
I don't think I saw anyone from either group in Santiago.
They arrived well ahead of me.
So what is worth noting from these experiences?
- Whilst I was a very loose 'member' of these groups, I usually walked alone due to my speed.
- Often the most interesting people I met and those with whom I made the strongest connection, were also walking alone.
- Catching up with the 'family' at dinner was fun, but I only did so maybe 25-30% of the time. Other times I was in a different town, or different part of town, or had made other arrangements.
- You don't need to be in a Camino family to have a great Camino. In fact I would say, you might be better not being in one, as you'll make more of an effort to meet a broader range of people and you won't feel 'obliged' to walk to and stay in specific places.
- In my last 100kms, I was down to about 10 kms per day due to injury. It took forever from Sarria! But I made a point of embracing it and chatting to many of the 'new' pilgrims who had started in Sarria. I met some amazing and inspiring people...
- You must walk at your own pace. Don't try to match your pace / distance with others. (it leads to injury amongst other things) If you drop out of the 'family' you'll meet other people along the way.
Just some random thoughts and perspectives..........
Sorry, to answer your question specifically.
Camino “families” - how cliquey or impenetrable are they mid-way through a Camino?
Some might be, some aren't. Those I joined weren't.
But, why would you even worry about it?
On the more popular routes you'll always find someone to talk to. eat with....
But the Camino to me is more about the inner journey.
That's why my next one will be more remote
I on the other hand admire people who, whilst sharing their experiences, can be honest and open about how they felt at that time on that day.I am very much a solo walker by intention. So I cannot speak from experience as a member of a 'camino family'. However my eyebrows do rise a little at the idea of someone who is prepared to go online to post his anger and frustration at his perceived exclusion from established friendship groups around him. Is being welcomed into such a group a right? Perhaps this man has been coming across as too emotionally needy, demanding or entitled to make easy and welcome company?
Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
This quote really resonates with me. But now I’m thinking about how we often refer to someone’s partner/spouse as their “better half.”As Leonardo da Vinci said, “While you are alone you are completely yourself; and if you are accompanied by even one other person you are but half yourself.”
Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
I am a photographer, so my preference is to walk solo..but I still managed to make many wonderful connections. If I did walk with a group, I wouldn't expect them to stop and wait on me while I photographed a scene. I think it's easier just to take things as the come....Apologies for the awkwardly-worded title. I’m not sure how best to articulate my question. I was watching a recently uploaded YouTube video series by a guy walking solo along the Camino Francis. He was about two weeks into the walk, and was sharing with the viewers some of the experiences he had been having recently. He commented that he’s walking slower than most, as he’s taking a lot of photos and video. As a result, the people that he had started walking with and had made friends with at the beginning of the Camino were several days ahead of him now. He said that the people he’s meeting now are in their own little groups or cliques that they formed at the beginning of the Camino, and they tend to stick together, leaving him feeling like an outsider. He seemed quite frustrated at that moment and said it was “like f’ing high school”.
Question - is there value in adjusting your walking schedule to ensure you stick with the same basic group you started with? I appreciate there are too many variables involved to answer that question, but I guess I’m wondering if any others had experienced something similar to what I described above.
P.S. the frustration the guy was feeling seemed short-lived, and he was fine after that. He may have just been having a bad day and was over-stating the issue. But humans being human, it’s certainly behaviour I’ve seen in many other circumstances - a group of strangers thrown together form their own small groups, and they can be somewhat exclusive. So it’s not inconceivable that what this guy experienced is a common phenomenon.
This is exactly the advice I would give. Walk your own camino, at your own pace. You will begin to meet people like yourself. I’ve agonized about keeping up with new found friends, and felt sad at “losing” them. It’s too much. More recently I’ve walked at my own pace, met other (independent, strong, slightly prickly older women) walkers and felt blessed to walk alongside them for the time we shared the path. Be open, enjoy meeting people, let them go. Your fellowship will endure.Walk your own pace.
In my experience, you'll meet exactly the people you need to meet (not necessarily the ones you want to meet).
If you end up walking alone for some time, use that alone time for reflexion, meditation, whatever you want to call it. It's all part of the package. Don't try to force anything, adapt to the current situation.
If you walk with the expectation to be part of a fixed camino family all the way to the end, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It is not something you can plan. Just walk with an open mind, and amazing things can happen.
Most pilgrims, solo walkers as well as 'camino families' (even many organized tour group pilgrims!) are very open towards others. If someone is not, accept it, respect their boundaries.
It is very easy to connect with people on the camino, if you want to. Don't worry
Buen Camino!
I too was there CC, in Sept 2015. What fantastic hosts - then to have the pleasure of Istvan driving us on the alternate route around the Pyrenees to St. Jean. The weather was perfect, the landcape stunning!This was my first communal meal at Istvan's Corazon Puro guest house (no longer operating) in April 2015. I meet up yearly for a mini-reunion and a few shortish hikes with two of them as they live in the midwest, too.
The man in dark blue shirt got caught on the Napoleon route the night before with snow/slush after dark and stayed overnight in the stone hut.
View attachment 116099
That was our experience also, and we appreciated him driving us to SJPdP. It's a really great memory!I too was there CC, in Sept 2015. What fantastic hosts - then to have the pleasure of Istvan driving us on the alternate route around the Pyrenees to St. Jean. The weather was perfect, the landcape stunning!
I feel exactly like youAfter reading many posts here I´ve found out that may be I am not as strange that I thought, having not been in a caminofamily on any of my caminos and not wanted it either.
In ”old days” I liked the caminospirit that was caring about your fellow peregrinos, like asking if somebody was ok when passing, offering some water if needed, feeling that someone would find you and see you if you needed help. Hope that spirit is still there!
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