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Considering this modified route. Compostela qualifier?

WanderingBrian

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2018
So originally I was thinking Coastal (Porto to Pontedevra) plus the Variante Espiritual. But now I am considering this option if anyone is familiar:
  • Start in Valenca/Tui - normal Camino Portugues until Pontevedra.
  • Then switch to the Variante Espirutual until Combarro
  • Then switch to the Ruta de Padre Martín Sarmiento until eventually meeting up with the Variante at Vilanova de Arousa.
  • Then take the boat up to Padron, resyncing with the Camino Portugues.
  • Onwards to SdC as normal
Thoughts on this? I cannot see any reason why this would not be a recognized route.
 
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WanderingBrian

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2018
You can follow any combo that you wish. If you want to obtain a Compostela in Santiago you must walk at least the last 100km to SdC.
Well sorta....

I know that regardless of the fact that Ruta de Padre Martín Sarmiento is more than 100km, its not recognized and therefore on its own does not qualify. That's why my thought was start in Tui and rejoin in Padron and that should qualify. But I wasn't 100% sure.
 
Past OR future Camino
2012
The "recognized route" thing only applies to the last 100km into Santiago but is also rather dependent on the Pilgrim's Office interpretations. If you start in Tui you're 114km from Santiago. Get your two stamps a day in somewhere the PO might find on their lists and you should be fine. In previous, friendly, discussion with the PO it was suggested that Pilgrims are supposed to walk to Santiago. The implication that spending time wandering about Iberia did not count as a pilgrimage to Santiago.

It'll probably come down to the voluntaria/o on the jump the morning you arrive and your ability to persevere. While I've never seen any sin in "taking the long way round" some do seem to.

Buen Camino

ps. which is more important - the journey or the award?
 

alexwalker

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(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
ps. which is more important - the journey or the award?
The Way is the goal, IMHO...It's many years since I stopped collecting Compostelas, although I worked as a volunteer in the PO in May/June 2019. I call it payback time for what the Caminos have given me in the last 11 years.
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
There has been a lot of discussion on the forum about whether the Variante Espiritual qualifies for a compostela. The pilgrims office recognizes it. Do a search with “variante espiritual compostela.” My memory is that the main issue is whether the boat ride reduces your total to a number below 100 kms. If it does, you don’t get the compostela. So it depends on where you start, at least that’s what I remember. What you describe seems to keep you well over the 100 mark, so it doesn’t seem like it should be a problem. But I also remember that there were people who thought they were entitled to a compostela who didn’t get one, so I think you should be willing to accept that possibility — if you can’t, then I wouldn’t walk the Variante Espiritual.
 

Flog

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
The "recognized route" thing only applies to the last 100km into Santiago but is also rather dependent on the Pilgrim's Office interpretations. If you start in Tui you're 114km from Santiago. Get your two stamps a day in somewhere the PO might find on their lists and you should be fine. In previous, friendly, discussion with the PO it was suggested that Pilgrims are supposed to walk to Santiago. The implication that spending time wandering about Iberia did not count as a pilgrimage to Santiago.

It'll probably come down to the voluntaria/o on the jump the morning you arrive and your ability to persevere. While I've never seen any sin in "taking the long way round" some do seem to.

Buen Camino

ps. which is more important - the journey or the award?
I agree, a starting stamp in Tui, a couple a day in between and a couple in Padron should satisfy the office. But I would suggest as it's not strictly official: please just accept and be prepared to let it go if they do make an issue of it.
 

WanderingBrian

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2018
The "recognized route" thing only applies to the last 100km into Santiago but is also rather dependent on the Pilgrim's Office interpretations. If you start in Tui you're 114km from Santiago. Get your two stamps a day in somewhere the PO might find on their lists and you should be fine. In previous, friendly, discussion with the PO it was suggested that Pilgrims are supposed to walk to Santiago. The implication that spending time wandering about Iberia did not count as a pilgrimage to Santiago.

It'll probably come down to the voluntaria/o on the jump the morning you arrive and your ability to persevere. While I've never seen any sin in "taking the long way round" some do seem to.

Buen Camino

ps. which is more important - the journey or the award?
Thank you.

Certainly the journey is the adventure and the point. But, still, the Compostela would be nice :)
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
The Way is the goal, IMHO...It's many years since I stopped collecting Compostelas, although I worked as a volunteer in the PO in May/June 2019. I call it payback time for what the Caminos have given me in the last 11 years.
I always get a Compostela but only have one framed (my first) and it still sits in a closet. I do like getting them and they are scattered in tubes around my house. But when I stumble across one I still like to look at it and remember.
 

MarkyD

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Francés 31/08/2018 - 20/10/2018
So originally I was thinking Coastal (Porto to Pontedevra) plus the Variante Espiritual. But now I am considering this option if anyone is familiar:
  • Start in Valenca/Tui - normal Camino Portugues until Pontevedra.
  • Then switch to the Variante Espirutual until Combarro
  • Then switch to the Ruta de Padre Martín Sarmiento until eventually meeting up with the Variante at Vilanova de Arousa.
  • Then take the boat up to Padron, resyncing with the Camino Portugues.
  • Onwards to SdC as normal
Thoughts on this? I cannot see any reason why this would not be a recognized route.
Me and my wife did a similar route in May 2019, but we started in Valença do Minho. We didn't do the Ruta de Padre Martín, but we did take variant option after Pontevedra to go to Vilanova de Arousa. From there we took the boat to Pontecesures. On arrival at SdC there were no issues regarding it's validity, even with the boat trip it's over the 100km minimum. Mind you, a very keen checker-upper in the Pilgrims' Office gave all my stamps a good eye-balling to make sure I still had 2 stamps per day. 🙃
 
Last edited:

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
Thank you.

Certainly the journey is the adventure and the point. But, still, the Compostela would be nice :)
Please listen to Tinker if it is important to youth get one. He does know his Camino stuff. If you walk from Tui and then do the Spiritual Variant you will be fine and will be able to get your Compostela. If not it is a crapshoot. But you can always come back another time. It seems you would have more time to walk as you mentioned starting in Porto. You could always walk to Muxia and Finisterre. It is a beautiful loop to take. Then you could get your Santiago Compostela and the certificates from both Muxia and Finisterre.
 

gollygolly

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2000/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/2021
So originally I was thinking Coastal (Porto to Pontedevra) plus the Variante Espiritual. But now I am considering this option if anyone is familiar:
  • Start in Valenca/Tui - normal Camino Portugues until Pontevedra.
  • Then switch to the Variante Espirutual until Combarro
  • Then switch to the Ruta de Padre Martín Sarmiento until eventually meeting up with the Variante at Vilanova de Arousa.
  • Then take the boat up to Padron, resyncing with the Camino Portugues.
  • Onwards to SdC as normal
Thoughts on this? I cannot see any reason why this would not be a recognized route.

Camino Portuguese / Variant Espiritual and the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento.

If you are starting from Tui, you should receive the compostela.

The Ruta de Padre Sarmiento is NOT a recognised route, though the walking distance from Tui places you you in theory well within the 100km requirement.

However, if you wish to walk the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento and also to obtain the Compostela, do read this !

As the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento is not, at least at the moment, an officially recognised route, and despite being over 190kms in distance, should you commence walking at Tui, your walk will NOT necessarily qualify to receive a Compestela.

And so to the walk.

On departing, and once at Pontevedra, follow the usual route taken by all peregrino heading north on the Camino Portuguese, which is well indicated. At the point where the Camino divides and the possibility for taking the Variant Espiritual, turn left as indicated. The sign indicating the turn is very prominent and would be hard to not see.

In turning left and stepping on to the Variant Espiritual, the majority of the peregrinos walking on the Camino Portuguese will be left behind, as the majority will continue to walk on the ‘regular’ Camino.

From this divide where the walk turns left it is both the Variant Espiritual and the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento.

The Camino will pass Poio, where there is the Monasterio de Poio (Hospedería Monasterio de Poio).

This is a convenient stop should you wish it to not have too arduous a first day, as well as being in a beautiful place with a wonderful ‘energy’. In the grounds there is also to be found the longest ‘hórreo’ that I have seen in Galicia, and at over 33 metres long is almost certainly the longest that you will ever see.

There are also plenty of opportunities to eat within a reasonable distance from the Monastery, including in Comborro, a very picturesque fishing village which is now moderately touristic.

It is in Combarro that the turn away from the Variant Espiritual to the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento is to be found - see the attached. For those walking on the Variant Espiritual, the Camino continues upwards with the turn that veers to the right, while for those choosing the Ruta de Padre Sarmiento, the turn is to the left and past the former fisherman’s houses and small ‘hórreo’ along the route, the majority of which are now given over to restaurants and shops providing the usual tourist offerings.

Nonetheless, the area is extraordinarily picturesque.

The stages from this point will be a personal choice connected with how much time is available as well as your budget. There is a need to take into account that between Pontevedra and Vilanova de Arousa, all overnight accommodation will be at hotels / private hostel / Airbnb or camping. There are no Albergue !

While there are no Albergue, should the route be walked outside of the peak tourist season, it is almost certainly the case that overnight accommodation will not be ridiculously expensive. There are also excellent eating opportunities for almost the entire route.

The final overnight along the road before we rejoined the Variant Espiritual was on the island of Arousa, waking early so as to arrive at Vilanova de Arousa in time to take the Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB) [Tours Rias Baixas contact phone 00 34 680 733 990 or www.toursriasbaixas.com/es/contact] that would take us, along with eight other Peregrinos, to Pontecesures, which is just outside Padron. This journey up the Rio Ulla qualifies as being part of the Camino, and certainly would be of interest to those who like to have a distinct stamp in the Credencial, as well as quite an exhilarating ride on the river.

From Padrón, the Camino is the last stretch for most of the various strands of the different routes coming up from Portugal. It is consequently a quite busy stretch of Camino, though if you are seeking something of a refuge from the masses, strongly suggest diverting from Padrón to Herbón, about 6kms away, where there is the stunning Monasterio de Herbón, which provides the warmest of welcomes to peregrinos, and a great Camino experience for the body, mind and soul.

Hope that the above helps, and also refer to the following for more information

https://www.rutapadresarmiento.com/

http://www.osalnes.com/en/discover/activities/the-route-of-father-sarmiento

https://www.caminodesantiago.gal/en/make-plans/the-ways/the-mar-de-arousa-and-rio-ulla-route
along the river from Vilanova de Arousa
https://www.labarcadelperegrino.com/home.html
naviera@bahiasub.com
 
Last edited:

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
Me and my wife did a similar route in May 2019, but we started in Valença do Minho. We didn't do the Ruta de Padre Martín, but we did take variant option after Pontevedra to go to Vilanova de Arousa. From there we took the boat to Pontecesures. On arrival at SdC there were no issues regarding it's validity, even with the boat trip it's over the 100km minimum. Mind you, a very keen checker-upper in the Pilgrims' Office gave all my stamps a good eye-balling to make sure I still had 2 stamps per day. 🙃
Question... we are considering starting in Tui in May 2022--- taking the Spiritual path at Pontevedra and continuing like you and your wife. Would it matter if we started in Tui and not in Valenca to receive the Compostela?
 
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Question... we are considering starting in Tui in May 2022--- taking the Spiritual path at Pontevedra and continuing like you and your wife. Would it matter if we started in Tui and not in Valenca to receive the Compostela?
Whether you start from Valença or Tui makes no difference. They're right across the river from each other. Having worked in the Pilgrims Office, I know that Tui to Santiago qualifies for the Compostela, with or without the Spiritual Variant.
 

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
Whether you start from Valença or Tui makes no difference. They're right across the river from each other. Having worked in the Pilgrims Office, I know that Tui to Santiago qualifies for the Compostela, with or without the Spiritual Variant.
Next question... is that path "do-able" with a travel company sorting out our lodgings and shuttling luggage. Would love to stay at the monastery in Armenteira. My friend and I are in our late 60's and not carrying full overnight backpacks, just a day bag. Thanks!!
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Next question... is that path "do-able" with a travel company sorting out our lodgings and shuttling luggage. Would love to stay at the monastery in Armenteira. My friend and I are in our late 60's and not carrying full overnight backpacks, just a day bag. Thanks!!
Since you have particular places where you want to stay why not save some money and book your own accommodations.? Your local chapter of American Pilgrims on the Camino can probably help with your planning. You can have your luggage transferred with Tuitrans.
 
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Next question... is that path "do-able" with a travel company sorting out our lodgings and shuttling luggage. Would love to stay at the monastery in Armenteira. My friend and I are in our late 60's and not carrying full overnight backpacks, just a day bag. Thanks!!
Absolutely doable. My wife and I are in our early 60s. We made our own bookings, designed our own itinerary, but did use a luggage service (Tuitrans) to move our large bags from place to place, using day packs for the actual walk. My wife also has some health issues but we made it work. In one sense, using a travel company for the planning makes things easier, but then you get locked into their arrangements, which may or may not be optimal for you. We preferred the flexibility of doing our own planning. But there are pros and cons on each side so study this issue carefully.
As for staying at the Armenteira monastery, see this Forum thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-coastal-portuguese-routes.70544/#post-933900
 

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
Absolutely doable. My wife and I are in our early 60s. We made our own bookings, designed our own itinerary, but did use a luggage service (Tuitrans) to move our large bags from place to place, using day packs for the actual walk. My wife also has some health issues but we made it work. In one sense, using a travel company for the planning makes things easier, but then you get locked into their arrangements, which may or may not be optimal for you. We preferred the flexibility of doing our own planning. But there are pros and cons on each side so study this issue carefully.
As for staying at the Armenteira monastery, see this Forum thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-coastal-portuguese-routes.70544/#post-933900
Thank you! The more I am reading and learning, it really doesn't look that hard to book in advance and design our own itinerary. The travel companies I have talked to want us to go directly from Pontevedra to Armenteira which is 21.4k and then Armenteira to Vilanova Arousa which is about 24.6k. We'd like to keep to about 8-10 miles a day. I believe maybe you posted on a different post that you went from Pontevedra to Combarro, to Armenteira to Ribadumia to Villanova de Arousa? It adds two days, but since this path is so beautiful, we really wanted to savor our time. Plus, not sure how long it would take us to go up the steep incline from Combarro to Armenteria!! Thanks!!
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Thank you! The more I am reading and learning, it really doesn't look that hard to book in advance and design our own itinerary. The travel companies I have talked to want us to go directly from Pontevedra to Armenteira which is 21.4k and then Armenteira to Vilanova Arousa which is about 24.6k. We'd like to keep to about 8-10 miles a day. I believe maybe you posted on a different post that you went from Pontevedra to Combarro, to Armenteira to Ribadumia to Villanova de Arousa? It adds two days, but since this path is so beautiful, we really wanted to savor our time. Plus, not sure how long it would take us to go up the steep incline from Combarro to Armenteria!! Thanks!!
It's not hard at all to design your own itinerary. I wouldn't book everything in advance. Book the first few nights, then you will have a better idea of how far you want to walk each day. After that you can book a day or two ahead, and everywhere that you stay will have the envelopes and information for the luggage transfer companies.
 
Past OR future Camino
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The travel companies I have talked to want us to go directly from Pontevedra to Armenteira which is 21.4k and then Armenteira to Vilanova Arousa which is about 24.6k. We'd like to keep to about 8-10 miles a day. I believe maybe you posted on a different post that you went from Pontevedra to Combarro, to Armenteira to Ribadumia to Villanova de Arousa? It adds two days, but since this path is so beautiful, we really wanted to savor our time. Plus, not sure how long it would take us to go up the steep incline from Combarro to Armenteria!! Thanks!!
Doing the SP in two days, as your travel company suggests, would be pedal-to-the-metal walking for my wife and me! We prefer to "saunter" and enjoy ourselves. So, yes, we did the Pontevedra-Combarro-Armenteira-Ribadumia-Vilanova de Arousa stages and even took a day off in Combarro. I'll PM you with additional info. In any case, your situation shows how a travel company can lock you into an arrangement that may not work for you. The Armenteira ascent, by the way, took us 4 hours but people who are really fit could probably knock an hour off that.
 

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
Doing the SP in two days, as your travel company suggests, would be pedal-to-the-metal walking for my wife and me! We prefer to "saunter" and enjoy ourselves. So, yes, we did the Pontevedra-Combarro-Armenteira-Ribadumia-Vilanova de Arousa stages and even took a day off in Combarro. I'll PM you with additional info. In any case, your situation shows how a travel company can lock you into an arrangement that may not work for you. The Armenteira ascent, by the way, took us 4 hours but people who are really fit could probably knock an hour off that.
Thanks Ken! Exactly my thinking!!! I appreciate your feedback!
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
Thank you! The more I am reading and learning, it really doesn't look that hard to book in advance and design our own itinerary. The travel companies I have talked to want us to go directly from Pontevedra to Armenteira which is 21.4k and then Armenteira to Vilanova Arousa which is about 24.6k. We'd like to keep to about 8-10 miles a day. I believe maybe you posted on a different post that you went from Pontevedra to Combarro, to Armenteira to Ribadumia to Villanova de Arousa? It adds two days, but since this path is so beautiful, we really wanted to savor our time. Plus, not sure how long it would take us to go up the steep incline from Combarro to Armenteria!! Thanks!!
In general, while I believe travel companies are not necessary, I don't oppose their use. It's your money, after all. And for some people, without that layer of reassurance, they might not make a Camino after all. Or they want to spend their time on other sorts of preparation.

But in your specific case, it sounds like the travel company might not be meeting your needs. It sounds like they have specific accommodations they are associated with, leading them to suggest itineraries that don't necessarily meet what you are looking for. With the reading and learning you are doing, you might find that designing your own itinerary is not only feasible, but better for you. And, as you are discovering, it isn't that hard.
 

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
Hey Everyone! We decided to book our own way....!! Any insider tricks or ideas on how to make a reservation at the Monastery in Armenteria? I have looked at different fb groups and some say send them an email request and others say call.... I also wondered about arriving by a certain time?? Thanks in advance!
 
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Hey Everyone! We decided to book our own way....!! Any insider tricks or ideas on how to make a reservation at the Monastery in Armenteria? I have looked at different fb groups and some say send them an email request and others say call.... I also wondered about arriving by a certain time?? Thanks in advance!
Email may work fine, but we just called them and made reservations for a certain date. I think we did this about a week in advance.
 

auburnfive

Active Member
Hey Everyone! We decided to book our own way....!! Any insider tricks or ideas on how to make a reservation at the Monastery in Armenteria? I have looked at different fb groups and some say send them an email request and others say call.... I also wondered about arriving by a certain time?? Thanks in advance!
I used email, sent my request in Spanish using google translate. I received a lengthy reply in Spanish. as they wants to ensure you understand the rules of coming and going, and are specific about the times the doors are locked. Our reservations were all set, the Covid changed the plan
 

TreshaA2

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
I used email, sent my request in Spanish using google translate. I received a lengthy reply in Spanish. as they wants to ensure you understand the rules of coming and going, and are specific about the times the doors are locked. Our reservations were all set, the Covid changed the plan
How far in advance did you book? So sorry that you were not able to stay!
 

Smallest_Sparrow

Life is rarely what you expect or believe it to be
Past OR future Camino
2012: most of some, all of a few, a bit of others
I’m confused. I thought the rule was you must walk the last 100 km to SdC (hence the two stamps a day rule that was at least in effect when I walked). I’d walked over 1400 km on a variety of routes leading in a zig zag to SdC but the guy at the desk only wanted to see that I’d walked the last 100 in a row with no other transportation
 
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trecile

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Past OR future Camino
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I’m confused. I thought the rule was you must walk the last 100 km to SdC (hence the two stamps a day rule that was at least in effect when I walked). I’d walked over 1400 km on a variety of routes leading in a zig zag to SdC but the guy at the desk only wanted to see that I’d walked the last 100 in a row with no other transportation
It's the last 100km on a route recognized by the Cathedral.
 

Smallest_Sparrow

Life is rarely what you expect or believe it to be
Past OR future Camino
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It's the last 100km on a route recognized by the Cathedral.
My point was that boat trip takes away a good portion of the last 100km, so seems like that would negate any quibbling about which earlier parts of the journey are or are not recognized. I could be wrong
 

Albertinho

ninguém disse que era fácil !
Past OR future Camino
2013 Lisboa - Sant.
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2019 Valença -Sant.
So originally I was thinking Coastal (Porto to Pontedevra) plus the Variante Espiritual. But now I am considering this option if anyone is familiar:
  • Start in Valenca/Tui - normal Camino Portugues until Pontevedra.
  • Then switch to the Variante Espirutual until Combarro
  • Then switch to the Ruta de Padre Martín Sarmiento until eventually meeting up with the Variante at Vilanova de Arousa.
  • Then take the boat up to Padron, resyncing with the Camino Portugues.
  • Onwards to SdC as normal
Thoughts on this? I cannot see any reason why this would not be a recognized route.
We got our Compostela certificates in 2015 , walking the Variante Espiritual and taking the boat from Vilanova de Arousa to Pontecessures/Padron.
We started from Porto and walked along the coastal to Pontevedra whereafter we picked up the Variante Espiritual I i do not know what has been changed since then .
last time I walked from Porto was in 2018 and 2019 but we partly took the coastal and partly the central(inland) route and no Variante Espiritual anymore
 
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SusanH
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Does walking from Vigo and taking the Variante Espiritual qualify for the compostela?
I believe I read somewhere recently that as of june? the spiritual variant was now recognized officially - but of course I cannot find where I read that! Perhaps someone else can comment or knows of this ???
 
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I believe I read somewhere recently that as of june? the spiritual variant was now recognized officially - but of course I cannot find where I read that! Perhaps someone else can comment or knows of this ???
According to research I did for my book on the Spiritual Variant, it has been officially recognised as a Pilgrim route since 2013.
 

Ivan_Prada

Member
Past OR future Camino
Francés-(septiembre 2018)
Portugués-(en planes 2021)??
Hello, All:
According to “Credencial del Peregrino” and the maps and explanatory notes, the Spiritual Variant is acceptable.

On the attached photos, of the prior and the Sacred Year Credentials; the notes to the Portuguese Camino says: “Para obtener “Compostela “ la Variante Espiritual” debe iniciarse, como mínimo, en Porriño o Vigo”. Translation: To obtain a “Compostela “ the “Spiritual Variant “ must begin, as a minimum, in Porriño or Vigo.

Please, refer to attached photos. Hope this helps.

Iván
 

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Camino Socks
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Original artwork based on your pilgrimage or other travel photos.
Past OR future Camino
May 2020(postponed due Covid till first opportunity)
My point was that boat trip takes away a good portion of the last 100km, so seems like that would negate any quibbling about which earlier parts of the journey are or are not recognized. I could be wrong
There seems to be much confusion on the boat wether it counts or not - have heard from those who frown on not having walked to that the boat is recognised and even gives you a stamp? Will be starting in Tui via the VS - which even with the boat is about 135kms.
 

Smallest_Sparrow

Life is rarely what you expect or believe it to be
Past OR future Camino
2012: most of some, all of a few, a bit of others
There seems to be much confusion on the boat wether it counts or not - have heard from those who frown on not having walked to that the boat is recognised and even gives you a stamp? Will be starting in Tui via the VS - which even with the boat is about 135kms.
I don’t question the boat, there’s more than one boat ride on the Norte. It’s not the total distance, I wondered about the boat ride being within the last 100 km (unlike those on the Norte) and how that worked with the “must walk the last 100km” rule, but from an answer above apparently the Pilgrims Office is fine with it so bon voyage 🛳 🙂

edit: me personally I don’t care if ppl sail, taxi, bus or ride a unicycle, I’ve enough to worry about me without judging others. Each walks/rides/sails their own way
 

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