Descent into Roncesvalles as opposed to Foncebadon-Molinaseca

[Frank50]

Good morning...hope I am posting in the right place!
Due to time constraints us novices only managed to do a small section of the Camino - Astorga to O'Cebreiro. We are now hooked and want to start from the beginning, and my simple question is this:
Which is harder on a bad knee? Walking down to Roncevalles or the mountain from Foncebadon to Molinaseca? My knee really took strain on the latter It really doesn't like downhills.
Thanks...any advice would be welcome.

 

[mspath]

Frank50,

I have never walked the Napoleon route but always the Valcarlos alternate through the mountain pass instead of over the mountain via the Napoleon route to Roncesvalles monastery.

The last 1.5 k of the Napoleon route descends sharply on VERY slippery leaves to Roncesvalles. Hence where the camino nears the Ibaneta chapel walk out to
the N 135 road, turn left and follow the road safely down into Roncesvalles.

Leaving Roncesvalles if the weather is bad with either fog, rain or deep mud walking down to Zubiri on the parallel N 135 road is much easier/safer than following the camino path through the wood.

Stay safe and Buen Camino,

Margaret Meredith

 

[wayfarer]

For me it would be the latter but I walked to Roncesvalles on the Valcarlos, having said that I don't have a problem going down hill. Use walking poles, this will take some of the pressure off your legs and knees.
Buen Camino.

 

[adeczka13]

I've heard many people claim that the route from SJPDP to Roncesvalles is the one hardest day on the Camino -- in my opinion they are right, very bad for knees. If you have knees problems you might consider starting in Roncesvalles, many people do that. Or at least make the first day shorter and stay for the night in Orrison (8 km), and continue the next day from there (around 17 km left).

 

[supersullivan]

Frank, the marked descent route to Molinseca can be bypassed by a parallel road which would probably save your knees a lot of pounding on what at times is a very rough path but if you choose that option be sure to be careful watching for oncoming road traffic. I did the Route Napoleon last year but from the Col de Lepoeder choose to road walk down to Ibaneta as I judged the wet weather was likely to make the more direct route to Roncesvalles a potentially tricky proposition but it is a steep descent in places even on the road option and mspath's suggestion of the Valcarlos route should receive your serious consideration as jarring your knees so early in your camino could lead to some very painful days to come or adeczka13's suggestion of starting from Roncesvalles is worthy of serious thought. For non-hikers I think the descent on the marked path from Foncebadon is harder but by that stage you should have built up your fitness levels and leg strength.

Buen camino

Seamus

 

[clearskiescamino]

I generally am more wary of descents than ascents. I can't stand them. I found it particularly hard going walking down to Molinaseca. My back and knees hurt, where as ascents are no problem to me.
I am leaving in September from St Jean and hope to avoid the woods into Roncesvalles.

 

[Frank50]

Thanks so much for the replies. I will seriously look at the different options as I (or should I say, my knees) do not want a repeat of the route down to Molinaseca...I only found out after the event that I could have taken the road!

 

[dougfitz]

I think there is a major difference between the 1.5 km or so descent from the ridge line above Roncesvalles and the 13km or so descent into Molinseca. The average gradients appear about the same, just one is going to take eight to ten times longer. Whether you go via Route Valcarlos or Route Napoleon, the leg from SJPP to the top of the Pyrenees is over 1000m of climb, which might be less problematic for your knees, but is nonetheless quite a challenge.

Did you use walking poles? I have slightly dodgy knees, and poles are a real boon for downhills.

 

[Kanga]

It is only the shortcut through the beech forest into Roncesvalles that is a problem; the alternative road is fine. It's a very quiet road, I don't recall any cars at all. There is actually a warning sign at the entrance to the shortcut, with a suggestion to follow the road. It's not much longer.

There is also an alternative road route down to Molinasecca but I have not done it so can't advise what it is like.

 

[mspath]

...
There is also an alternative road route down to Molinasecca but I have not done it so can't advise what it is like.

The steep descent on shale from El Acebo to Molinaseca can be HELL especially in bad weather. Walk on the verges of the parallel road LE 463. Usually the only traffic are pelotons of bikers out for a ride. From Molinaseca onwards the camino is fine.

MM

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I took the road down from the Cruz de Ferro one time. The footing was much better, and the descent much more gradual. It was noticeably longer, so it took longer than walking the marked route. If you are headed for Molinaseca and time is not much of a factor, take the road (I wish all bicycles would take the road instead of expecting walkers to yield to them). If you are headed to Ponferrada, the marked route will save you time.

Both the trail descent into Roncesvalles and Molinaseca are bad; I would hate to decide which is worse!!!! Sticking to the road on both will make it easier.

 

[whariwharangi]

Descent from col de lepoeder to Roncesvalles is about 450 meters in 5km

Descent from the high point to Molinaseca is 900 meters in 10 km. In particular the section from the high point to Acebo is 300 meters in 2km ... much steeper than the descent in Roncesvalles.

Its more than about the numbers though. Both legs from SJPdP and Rabanal are long days, however people are more likely to be inured to the walking by the time they get to Astorga.

I remember the hill down to Triacastela (500 meters in 5 km) as being difficult. But there was snow on it so that may have been the reason.

 

[mspath]

...
I remember the hill down to Triacastela (500 meters in 5 km) as being difficult. But there was snow on it so that may have been the reason.

During bad weather ie fog or snow I have walked down along the verges of the parallel LU-633 from O Cebreiro to Triacastela; better safe than sorry is my motto!

MM

 

[Andrew James Doyle]

We found the descent into Zubrini on day 2 worse than the Napoleon the day before! Perhaps because of too few. Stops or foods-breaks but the drop was too much for my wife's knee! After this, with time to build, her knee got stronger so by the time Molinaseca arriver we were set and conditioned!!! Take your time and listen to your body! Buen Camino

 

[OTH86]

Last fall I negotiated the trail from Col de Lepoeder to Roncesvalles using poles - I too have knee problems!! I traversed many times, but made it - the knees DID hurt, but they held me up! It was scarey primarily (in hindsight) because it was only my 2nd day of walking (stayed at Orrison 1st night). But the next day the knees were fine! I also negotiated the descent from Cruz de Fero to Acebo mostly on the trail but a bit on the highway. I thought BOTH the trail and the road were a lot more difficult than my 2nd day even at that late stage of my Camino. I stayed in Acebo, and would have called for a taxi to take me down the hill, but the owner of the place where I stayed offered to take me to Ponferrada since it was market day and he needed to go anyway! (Blessings on you Jaime!!)
This fall, I will take Margaret's suggestion and go via the Valcarlos route. When I get to Cruz de Ferro, I will again walk the trail / road, and stay overnight in Acebo - but NOT ask for or accept a ride the next day - I will walk SLOWLY to Riego, have a nice long rest, massage the knees with arnica, take some paracetamol, and continue to Molinaseca for the night. I DO hope that works!!!
Buen Camino to you and your knees Frank!
Terry

 

[DurhamParish]

We found the descent into Zubrini on day 2 worse than the Napoleon the day before!

I did also. I did both descents in the rain, and the descent to Zubiri was worse. What I found to be worse was that the descent was on a lot of slick rock, that you would fall on if you slipped.

 

[musicagl]

I found the descent to Roncevalles the worst. The descent to Molineseca was OK for me. I think the difference is that the Roncevalles descent is 2 hours downhill AFTER having walked 5 to 7 hours already. It was possible to break up the descent to Molineseca with a stay in Acebo which helped.

 

[Frank50]

Thanks again, everyone!
My heart says the Napoleon Route but my head says the Valcarlos Route because I really don't want to suffer knee problems again so early on! Dougfitz, I used 1 pole before. Maybe I must look at using 2 next time
How far is it from SJPP to Roncesvalles via Valcarlos?
Thanks.

 

[mspath]

...
How far is it from SJPP to Roncesvalles via Valcarlos?
Thanks.

Roughly 11km to Valcarlos and another 16 km to Roncesvalles for 27 km total. Be prepared after Valcarlos there are NO services on either the camino or the parallel road N -135 until Roncesvalles.

 

[JoanneK]

Thanks again, everyone!
My heart says the Napoleon Route but my head says the Valcarlos Route because I really don't want to suffer knee problems again so early on! Dougfitz, I used 1 pole before. Maybe I must look at using 2 next time
How far is it from SJPP to Roncesvalles via Valcarlos?
Thanks.

Definitely take 2poles. I found mine invaluable. The road route into Roncevalles is longer but much easier than the steeper descent through the beeches. I've done both. Just make sure you don't miss the turn. Many people who intended to take the road in end April this year missed the turn.

 

[susanawee]

I did also. I did both descents in the rain, and the descent to Zubiri was worse. What I found to be worse was that the descent was on a lot of slick rock, that you would fall on if you slipped.

I also found the descent down to Zubiri to be a LOT worse than the descent from Roncevalles. I came down through the Beech Forest to Roncevalles and found only the first bit, just at the beginning, to be 'hairy'......I used poles.

 

[Kanga]

Thanks again, everyone!
My heart says the Napoleon Route but my head says the Valcarlos Route because I really don't want to suffer knee problems again so early on! Dougfitz, I used 1 pole before. Maybe I must look at using 2 next time
How far is it from SJPP to Roncesvalles via Valcarlos?
Thanks.

You don't need to miss the Napoleon Route to avoid the steep descent; from memory it is fine until you hit the beech woods and at that point the road intersects with the path and you take it - to the right. If I'm wrong someone who has done it recently please correct me!

The steep descent from the Cruz de Ferro to El Acebo and then to Molinasecca is hard but also spectacularly beautiful - wild flowers in abundance. The whole hillside is a glory of nature. I would hate to miss it.

 

[Frank50]

Oh dear, looks like there is another steep descent to be concerned about...into Zubiri!! Thanks for all the advice and comments.
I am working on strengthening the left knee, I will use 2 poles and closer to the time I will decide whether to follow my heart or my head. There are options if I take Route Napoleon but being the logical person that I am, I will probably take the Valcarlos route...and save my knees for Zubiri.
Can't wait for the next bit of walking!
Buen Camino to everyone.