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Yes.Am I missing something?
There has been a tendency to steer away from discussion of the religious and spiritual aspects of the Camino in recent years out of a fear of appearing to be "judgmental". Although the origins of the Camino are religious many of those who walk today profess no religion. Sadly some people seem to have difficulty in making a distinction between polite discussion, polemic, and proselytism. Posts with an overtly religious content can easily descend into personal attacks and so the forum rules here generally prohibit discussion of religious topics except in a strictly factual or historical sense related to the Camino.I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Check this site.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
It's not merely about the rules here.why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.
But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.
You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !
The Anglican bishop who ordained me was a guest at a Franciscan friary one time when the only other guest was a much younger man - a social worker from Newcastle. Michael was wearing jeans and a wool jumper and the two were chatting while doing the washing up. The young man asked Michael what his job was and when he replied "a bishop" the young man laughed and thought he was joking. Michael had to take his hand out of the washing-up bowl to show him the episcopal ring before the young man believed it.@dbier notes that there are many clergy along the Camino, but only once or twice have I seen them in clericals. Sometimes you will be surprised by a scruffy Irish pilgrim turning up in a chasuble at the altar to assist the village priest.
I am merely curious why all sites, etc.,
Indeed, I have often done this - and I suppose scruffy is a reasonably accurate description.Sometimes you will be surprised by a scruffy Irish pilgrim turning up in a chasuble at the altar to assist the village priest.
That was also my first thought. While this forum puts a limit on what can be discussed on this forum - regrettably but understandably - I get the impression that what feels like every second webpage about the Camino de Santiago states that it is or was a Catholic pilgrimage and when I entered the words devotion mediate site:.caminodesantiago.me a few threads with titles like Spiritual Journey, How do you prepare for the faith journey of the Camino, Rosary beads turned up and I remember other threads where forum members asked for suitable books or daily devotionals for preparation and use of their Camino. I myself could certainly find more thread with such content if I put more effort into it and picked appropriate search terms.I suggest you hone your online search skills or change browser. There is no shortage of information out there.
LOL, I just noticed my typing error! Try this instead as search terms for a Google search on this forum: devotion meditate site:.caminodesantiago.mewhen I entered the words devotion mediate site:.caminodesantiago.me
Yes, that's true andBut if I understand correctly, this is not what the question is about? It’s about why there is no more of this on the forum and on the internet or why the OP cannot find it?
2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics "always" end in a fight, so let's not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion is closely related, so some leeway will be given.
7) If you do not agree on a moderator decision, please contact the moderator or @@ivar in a Private Conversation. All disagreements should be handled in Private Conversations and not in public.
This does not match my experience at all.why all sites, etc., that I have encountered ..... no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Hello, Check out Pilgrimheart.org A priest who has walked the Camino has lots of good prayers and advice. I have copied some of them to take and read/pray on my Camino which starts next week!Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
I wish you buen camino when it happens. Others above have explained why you are missing something on this forum. I am also missing something. Abbreviations that were not included in the First Aid in English that was the rule book in my primary education did not include DM. However, I will use the pm option to write to you to say a little more that will not transgress any rules of this forum.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
Yes, you are missing quite a bit, although I agree completely that if you just use a search engine, the religious/spiritual elements of the camino are not there, and with good reason: They are not mechanical, like what backpack or shoes to buy, or how to treat blisters. Even so, there has been a resurgence in recent years of including the spiritual side in many commentaries. In fact, I was surprised that the latest Brierley guide to the Camino Portugues includes extensive spiritual commentary.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
Good observation, I think that there is a tendency to narrowly focus on gear and to avoid the spiritual dimension which is always there and which touches people in some kind of way. Have a look at my Camino books, Redemption Road, Contemplating the Camino and the Road to Manresa.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
Now that you say that, I agree. I’m a practicing Catholic. I have researched the various churches in the various towns and have taken notes so I know which ones to not miss and why they are important. I hope to hit a mass every night if possible as well.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
All boots, socks, blisters - not much church
I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.Yes, you are “missing something” - you are missing the fact this very Catholic pilgrimage route has been recast as a spiritual journey for everyone. That hikers can make it “their own Camino” and still expect to be treated as pilgrims and receive a blessing from the Catholic Church upon completion even though they will complain about the rules laid out by the Church for receding a Compostela and attending Mass.
As a Catholic, I hope you see through all these hiking-specific questions and information requests to the heart of the Camino. I hope you attend Mass every night if possible, stay at parochials whem offered, and fully immerse yourself in what it means to be a Catholic on this route.
Bless you and your travels. DM me if you’d like to discuss this more as afraid others will be less welcoming to my opinion
You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Hello Kingdada, I am a very liberal practicing Catholic who walked with my wife from SJPDP to Santiago at age 70. I am a recently retired oncologist who took messages from my Catholic patients down the camino and left them at Cruz Ferro. I unfortunately got diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer shortly after my return and am writing this while receiving chemotherapy. (too much information I know)Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.
You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.
There are some videos that may be of more interest to you:
This is my favorite camino documentary. It is more spiritual than religious but it does speak to the religious aspects of pilgrimage. It is called Looking for Infinity.
You may also like a new podcast by a camino historian that discusses the beginnings of medieval pilgrimage in Spain. It is very interesting (a little dry like listening to a college lecture) but full of information about all aspects of the beginnings of the camino.
https://scholarlypilgrim.com/
It’s a common saying on the Camino. I don’t think it’s a scientific statement that necessarily warrants evidence.What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’?
Ah ok. Thank you!It’s a common saying on the Camino. I don’t think it’s a scientific statement that necessarily warrants evidence.
It is just a old expression that if you just look past the obvious you will see much truth in these words. It transcends just the standard meaning of tourist/pilgrim. If you would like to send me a private message I would be happy to explain further. Also what evidence do most of us have besides our own personal experiences, thoughts and ideas for so many queries and topics that our forum friends present or answer.What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.
“Why aren’t there public toilets whenever I want one?”. “Ketchup! What kind of restaurant doesn’t have ketchup?”. “I can hear the noise from the bar. I’m a pilgrim I need to sleep”. “They wouldn’t give me a discount even when I showed them my shell”. “Rabbit, I can’t eat Rabbit. Bring me a pizza”.What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.
No that’s fine. Thank you for responding. I noticed the comment in your post and was just interested, especially as I am not a pilgrim, but am very (too!) undemanding. Thanks again!It is just an old expression that if you just look past the obvious you will see much truth in these words. It transcends just the standard meaning of tourist/pilgrim. If you would like to send me a private message I would be happy to explain further. Also what evidence do most of us have besides our own personal experiences, thoughts and ideas for so many queries and topics that our forum friends present or answer.
This is an international group from all walks of life. Everyone has a bit of something to offer. A lively debate can surface on anything including air in a bag. Please don't take anything personal. The love and disagreement is spread equally.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
Buen CaminoHello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
My friend, you are coming very close to religious opinion here.The pilgrimage aspect of the camino is not so popular, because the main opinion is that there is no relics of St James in Santiago de Compostela, neither in any place in Europe...
However, there is a spiritual aspect of the Way: it can be found in many building encountered while walking.
From my point of view, the most important aspect of the Camino takes place in the others pilgrims: you will be able to find a kind of magic in most of them...
Sure, and tag the thread with "mass/church services" so it can join the other threads on that topic.If you wanted to start a thread, for example, asking where one can join in masses along the route, I'm pretty confident that would be considered well within the rules.
Thanks for pointing out that there are enough posts on the subject to qualify it as a subject that should have its own tag.Sure, and tag the thread with "mass/church services" so it can join the other threads on that topic.
Also, in addition to your points, it has been apparent to me that some of the routes (Frances) have a lot of availability for religious pilgrims. More than one place that allowed me to spend a few moments in adoration of my savior in the Eucharist. (Hope this doesn't transgress the rules of the forum.) Other routes have had a lot less of that. (Translation: the churches aren't open.)I’m a priest doing his 4th Camino next month. Judgments abound, but it has been an evolving entity for 1200 years and not wholly what anyone wants it to be or might wish to impose upon it. But one of its great blessings is that it inclines people to be “Good Samaritans” to perfect strangers regardless of their varied perspectives on matters of faith. I appreciate how the Camino has taught me to avoid being judgmental about others who aren’t obviously “religious" or opt to do it in a different manner than I. The Camino helps me to try to do a better job of practicing what I preach.
There is indeed information about churches, Masses, and ways of praying along the way, but it is quite scattered. I’ve combed through a lot of webpages but didn’t know about pilgrimheart.org so thank you Kelseyjoy1. I’d also suggest To the Field of Stars by Fr. Kevin Codd and Antonio Danoz Fernandez’s “Walking to Santiago with the Gospel,” 35 daily meditations that can be used along the Camino available on the Buen Camino app.
Last year's stats from the Pilgrim's Office in Santiago indicated that 40% of people getting the compostela self-identify religious reasons as their main motivation and 49% indicate "religious/other" reasons. Those figures are probably somewhat inflated because they do not take into account the indeterminate number who don't make it to Santiago and/or choose not to get a compostela, but it is sufficient evidence in favor of supporting tens of thousands of pilgrims who are undertaking it for religious purposes.
So perhaps we can encourage those among us who would benefit from pooling resources to employ David Tallan's suggestion above or to brainstorm about other ways to share our thoughts productively without risking a dive into the polemics this forum's guidelines are understandably attempting to forestall? Buen Camino!
Pilgrimheart.org is not a FB group.The pilgrimheart.org site appears to be a facebook site. I don't do "Fakebook."So I can't appreciate their thoughts and information.
I did my first Camino in 2018 for religious reasons and I found the whole experience wonderful. I mainly walked with non religious people and I found I found we could have very interesting discussions. The Camino changed my life in many ways and was very healing. The beauty of walking across Spain just seemed to help me have a greater appreciation of God's wonderful creation. I am doing the Portuguese Camino in August and going to Fatima and I am really excited to see what the Camino will give me this time.Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
I don’t think your missing anything!Hello,
I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
And God Bless.
I see. Makes sense. Thank you. Buen Camino. God Bless.It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.
But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.
You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !
It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.
But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.
You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !
I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.
I like the way it is ‘marketed/positioned’ as ‘for everyone’, religious or not. If it had been communicated as a catholic religious pilgrimage it may well have put me off and that would have been a shame as I really enjoyed it. I feel that religious folks can get what they want out of it (loads of churches, for example) as can non religious folks with no real ‘conflict’.
Thank you for sharing your experience on the Way. What route did you take? What is SJPDP? God Bless.Hello Kingdada, I am a very liberal practicing Catholic who walked with my wife from SJPDP to Santiago at age 70. I am a recently retired oncologist who took messages from my Catholic patients down the camino and left them at Cruz Ferro. I unfortunately got diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer shortly after my return and am writing this while receiving chemotherapy. (too much information I know)
We sought a private religious experience and sought to meet as many people as we could walking the trail. Seemingly most people we met were Catholic and sharing an experience similar to ours. Our first night in Borda was magical, we slept in the sheep herders cabin, dinner was a delight, and we met a dozen people we would see all the way along the trail. It was a very not in your face spiritual event for everyone.
The trail itself is set up in a way that it always walks up the highest hill to pass by a church, so you will have an opportunity to visit hundreds (cursing under your breath at the extra uphill hike). Churches were our favorite place to get a stamp. We were walking in August so most often we started before sunrise with headlamps. We listened for the first dog bark, the first rooster crow, and the first bird to sing to us knowing then, that God was in his place and walking with us.
Magical surprises happen everyday. You can't miss them. They can bring tears or joy. We tried to catch the pilgrims masses when available and were lucky to have days off in Leon, Astorga, Borgos and Pamplona so went to mass in the cathedral. The Pamplona mass for me was life changing. In contrast we visited the museum of human evolution in Borgos (highly recommended)
The not to miss, even for non catholics, is the mass in O'Cebreiro, and the monks chanting and mass in Rabanal del Camino. The chanting at Vespers (7pm) followed by a pilgrims mass at 9pm were the highlight of our trip.
Our trip was very spiritual and life changing. That would, I expect, be true for everyone. My only advice (old man, free advice, fairly reliable), is walk alone everyday for as long as you need. Patrick
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Saint Jean Pied de Port. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the keyboard!What is SJPDP?
I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.
I like the way it is ‘marketed/positioned’ as ‘for everyone’, religious or not. If it had been communicated as a catholic religious pilgrimage it may well have put me off and that would have been a shame as I really enjoyed it. I feel that religious folks can get what they want out of it (loads of churches, for example) as can non religious folks with no real ‘conflict’.
Thank you for your kind words, and for sharing some of your experience. You seem like a wonderful, open human being.I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.
You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.
There are some videos that may be of more interest to you:
This is my favorite camino documentary. It is more spiritual than religious but it does speak to the religious aspects of pilgrimage. It is called Looking for Infinity.
You may also like a new podcast by a camino historian that discusses the beginnings of medieval pilgrimage in Spain. It is very interesting (a little dry like listening to a college lecture) but full of information about all aspects of the beginnings of the camino.
https://scholarlypilgrim.com/
That's just not true. I won't say more than that. It's insensitive and inflammatory remarks like this that that beget the sorts of discussion that quickly becomes vitriolic.. For us religious folk it’s a pilgrimage and the other walkers are just enjoying a long hike.
If you wish to blame the forum for not knowing about the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro, then blame those posters who say that you don’t need a guidebook for the Camino Francés but there a plenty of posters who recommend otherwise. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt and the fact that this legend / myth / story exists and was once known throughout Europe is not off topic on this forum. It was mentioned as recently as ten days ago in this thread: Holy Week ceremonies.When I started writing my book about Camino, I found something that I had missed in O Cebreiro. The blood of Christ. I was in church, I was at mass, but I did not know that in the right altar in the chalice is the blood of Christ. In all those few months of preparation, I didn't come across that information.
I walked my first Camino using Elias Valiña's 1985 guidebook. No chance of missing the story in that one. The prominence might have something to do with Don Elias being O Cebreiro's priest and therefore at least partly the custodian of the relics of the miracle!. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt
Hi Kathar1na,If you wish to blame the forum for not knowing about the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro, then blame those posters who say that you don’t need a guidebook for the Camino Francés but there a plenty of posters who recommend otherwise. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt and the fact that this legend / myth / story exists and was once known throughout Europe is not off topic on this forum. It was mentioned as recently as ten days ago in this thread: Holy Week ceremonies.
Just to be clear on the topic of “muzzling.” If you are suggesting that the forum is muzzling the discussion, please remember rule 2. Ivar has decided that religion is one of those hot button topics that never ends well.I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.
Rules exist, but rules can be changed.Just to be clear on the topic of “muzzling.” If you are suggesting that the forum is muzzling the discussion, please remember rule 2. Ivar has decided that religion is one of those hot button topics that never ends well.
2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics "always" end in a fight, so let's not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion is closely related, so some leeway will be given.
Separating out the religious from the camino is sometimes difficult, but I hope you can understand that the camino is for the religious and the non-religious alike. When the discussion drifts too heavily into the religious (or anti-religious) side of things, we will delete it.
The first mention of the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro that turned up in a quick search was ten years ago in 2013 in Legends of the Camino. My point is that mentioning religious related topics are not forbidden as such and that there is no reason to change the forum rules because members did not find such information.when I was preparing for my first Camino 2016, there was little information about O Cebreiros on this forum. And seven years have passed since thenand I'm not a fan of guides
For the reason stated in Rule 2: "These topics "always" end in a fight". I suspect that if this rule were to be dropped then this forum would soon become a far more hostile and divided place than it currently is. The moderators do allow a reasonable degree of leeway in the interpretation of the rule. If you really want to have a discussion on religious topics there are thousands of other places on the internet which will happily offer you space. And quite possibly more heat than light in the process.Rules exist, but rules can be changed.
Why not try?
Members are also free to start private conversations with other members. In fact you can have several members form a group to discuss such things. Simply click the envelope icon at the top of the page and then click on "start a new conversation." From there you can add whichever forum members you want to the conversation. If someone has invited you to a conversation that you don't want to be a part of there is a "leave" button at the top of the conversation thread.If you really want to have a discussion on religious topics there are thousands of other places on the internet which will happily offer you space. And quite possibly more heat than light in the process.
Welcome to the forum, @KingDada1 . You have been a member for 2 days, and have posted on one thread, so I am not sure what muzzling you might have experienced here.I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.
I don't recall saying that I experienced being muzzled; I feel that being open and inclusive also means being open and inclusive towards people who are religious, too.Welcome to the forum, @KingDada1 . You have been a member for 2 days, and have posted on one thread, so I am not sure what muzzling you might have experienced here.
There have been some very good explanations of what type of religious discussion are not allowed here on the forum, and why - @natefaith's post above, for example
There are many posts that ask and answer straightforward questions about religious elements - sites, services, history, etc. - of the Camino. We do not allow proselytizing or discussion of religious dogma. With time and attention to the forum community, it is quite easy to identify which forum members might be interested in further private Conversations. (Private conversations must still adhere to rules of civility and no one should feel compelled to engage in them.)
Any reasonable and open-minded person should recognize that there is a need for us to set certain boundaries. The moderators try to be flexible and allow discussion as it relates to the Camino. Those who find our boundaries to be too restrictive might try starting up their own public internet forum and see how that goes.
Forgetful or forgiving?And we should not be muzzled for doing so.
You introduced the idea of muzzling in post #52 above, as if it were relevant to this forum.I don't recall saying that I experienced being muzzled
Yes, we fully support that. In fact, it is one of the reasons we do not allow religious dogma or proselytizing, since what is truth to one person, may be disturbing to another.I feel that being open and inclusive also means being open and inclusive towards people who are religious, too.
Because we know of no good reason to change the rules, but feel free to present a reasoned argument if you happen to know of one. Most forum members are happy to accept the rules as they are, by the way.Rules exist, but rules can be changed.
Why not try?
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