Exploring the Spiritual Aspect of the Camino as a Catholic Pilgrim

[KingDada1]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

 

[dougfitz]

Am I missing something?

Yes.

Perhaps use the search function to find those discussions that have taken place, and read the rules to understand the constraints within which that has occurred.

 

[Bradypus]

I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

There has been a tendency to steer away from discussion of the religious and spiritual aspects of the Camino in recent years out of a fear of appearing to be "judgmental". Although the origins of the Camino are religious many of those who walk today profess no religion. Sadly some people seem to have difficulty in making a distinction between polite discussion, polemic, and proselytism. Posts with an overtly religious content can easily descend into personal attacks and so the forum rules here generally prohibit discussion of religious topics except in a strictly factual or historical sense related to the Camino.

 

[Vacajoe]

Yes, you are “missing something” - you are missing the fact this very Catholic pilgrimage route has been recast as a spiritual journey for everyone. That hikers can make it “their own Camino” and still expect to be treated as pilgrims and receive a blessing from the Catholic Church upon completion even though they will complain about the rules laid out by the Church for receding a Compostela and attending Mass.

As a Catholic, I hope you see through all these hiking-specific questions and information requests to the heart of the Camino. I hope you attend Mass every night if possible, stay at parochials whem offered, and fully immerse yourself in what it means to be a Catholic on this route.

Bless you and your travels. DM me if you’d like to discuss this more as afraid others will be less welcoming to my opinion

 

[stevepjq]

Touché @Vacajoe

 

[simply B]

What @Vacajoe said... also open to DMs.

Buen Camino!

B

 

[dbier]

There are also priests, reverends, brothers and sisters, and others who make pilgrimage or lead others on pilgrimage. A few of them read this forum, and post. Search out the threads here about how to go to Mass, from those curious.

 

[KingDada1]

Thank you so much, dbier. I will do that.

 

[J Willhaus]

@KingDada1 there are still places on the Camino where you can experience your religion. Still pilgrim masses and still places of worship. We just don't talk about it much here because there are rules about discussing religion since it seems to lead to incivility evenually.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Almost every pueblo along the Francese has a church open for a before-dinner (by Spanish standards) mass at 7pm, usually with the Rosary being said by villagers about 20 minutes beforehand. Townsfolk and villagers are very happy to see pilgrims attend and are warm and welcoming (don't expect greeters!!). I've often had the priest give me a sello after mass. Not that many pilgrims attend, but there are a few, and a good number are not RC-- indeed, some of those whom I have met who intended to make a religious pilgrimage did not attend services, and there were quite a few non-RCs who regularly attended along the way. The Camino is full of surprises.

As others have noted, religious discussions tend to get heated-- which of us do not have issues?? so this board has fairly clear rules on this. Some exchanges take place on DMs -- feel free to send a DM if you wish.

@dbier notes that there are many clergy along the Camino, but only once or twice have I seen them in clericals. Sometimes you will be surprised by a scruffy Irish pilgrim turning up in a chasuble at the altar to assist the village priest. I was once at a concert in Ottawa where I met a jazz-loving Vatican diplomat who noted that there were two Canadian bishops who were enthusiastic pilgrims (Lionel Gendron, retired of Saint Jean-Longeuil and Don Bolen of Regina) -- I suggested that only pilgrim clergy should be made bishops, but he said that some of them might not be in shape to make it and survive. That would be God's will, I suggested....

 

[J Willhaus]

There are several parroquial albergues on the CF. Ask if there is a pilgrim mass available. Although we are not Catholic, we always attended as hospitaleros with pilgrims in tow. This is appreciated by the community and helps justify a priest for the small communities.

 

[Mobilemejen]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Check this site.

Catholics On Camino Pilgrimage

 

[VNwalking]

why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.

But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.

You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !

 

[MARSKA]

Thank you for this discussion.

 

[Former member 107885]

It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.

But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.

You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !

I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.

I like the way it is ‘marketed/positioned’ as ‘for everyone’, religious or not. If it had been communicated as a catholic religious pilgrimage it may well have put me off and that would have been a shame as I really enjoyed it. I feel that religious folks can get what they want out of it (loads of churches, for example) as can non religious folks with no real ‘conflict’.

 

[Bradypus]

@dbier notes that there are many clergy along the Camino, but only once or twice have I seen them in clericals. Sometimes you will be surprised by a scruffy Irish pilgrim turning up in a chasuble at the altar to assist the village priest.

The Anglican bishop who ordained me was a guest at a Franciscan friary one time when the only other guest was a much younger man - a social worker from Newcastle. Michael was wearing jeans and a wool jumper and the two were chatting while doing the washing up. The young man asked Michael what his job was and when he replied "a bishop" the young man laughed and thought he was joking. Michael had to take his hand out of the washing-up bowl to show him the episcopal ring before the young man believed it.

 

[Flatlander]

Would this be a timely opportunity to consider the pre-Christian origins of what we call "The Camino"?

It's not like organised religion has never recast other traditions for its own designs.

I am merely curious why all sites, etc.,

I suggest you hone your online search skills or change browser. There is no shortage of information out there.

Personally, I'm wary of any statement that starts with "All".

You think being a practising Catholic is bad? Try being a practising cyclist Satan's minions we are in certain corners of the Internet!

 

[timr]

Sometimes you will be surprised by a scruffy Irish pilgrim turning up in a chasuble at the altar to assist the village priest.

Indeed, I have often done this - and I suppose scruffy is a reasonably accurate description.

Whether or not you will find it on this forum, which treads a cautious line (and understandably (if sadly sometimes) so) I feel confident you will be able to find what you are looking for along the path.

@KingDada1 you can DM me here if you wish.

Buen Camino.

 

[Kathar1na]

I suggest you hone your online search skills or change browser. There is no shortage of information out there.

That was also my first thought. While this forum puts a limit on what can be discussed on this forum - regrettably but understandably - I get the impression that what feels like every second webpage about the Camino de Santiago states that it is or was a Catholic pilgrimage and when I entered the words devotion mediate site:.caminodesantiago.me a few threads with titles like Spiritual Journey, How do you prepare for the faith journey of the Camino, Rosary beads turned up and I remember other threads where forum members asked for suitable books or daily devotionals for preparation and use of their Camino. I myself could certainly find more thread with such content if I put more effort into it and picked appropriate search terms.

But if I understand correctly, this is not what the question is about? It’s about why there is no more of this on the forum and on the internet or why the OP cannot find it?

 

[Kathar1na]

when I entered the words devotion mediate site:.caminodesantiago.me

LOL, I just noticed my typing error! Try this instead as search terms for a Google search on this forum: devotion meditate site:.caminodesantiago.me

 

[Pafayac]

The pilgrimage aspect of the camino is not so popular, because the main opinion is that there is no relics of St James in Santiago de Compostela, neither in any place in Europe...
However, there is a spiritual aspect of the Way: it can be found in many building encountered while walking.

From my point of view, the most important aspect of the Camino takes place in the others pilgrims: you will be able to find a kind of magic in most of them...

 

[Flatlander]

But if I understand correctly, this is not what the question is about? It’s about why there is no more of this on the forum and on the internet or why the OP cannot find it?

Yes, that's true and

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/forum-rules.20973/

states

2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics "always" end in a fight, so let's not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion is closely related, so some leeway will be given.

It also states

7) If you do not agree on a moderator decision, please contact the moderator or @@ivar in a Private Conversation. All disagreements should be handled in Private Conversations and not in public.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. There are lots of places where these subjects are discussed. Just not here. And a public discussion on why not is not welcome. An avenue for private clarification is generously offered.

I didn't pick up from the OP that they needed suggestions to better search the forum or the Web and am bemused that

why all sites, etc., that I have encountered ..... no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

This does not match my experience at all.

You're more generous than I to offer specific search assistance

 

[imwalking]

The Camino is full of blessings in every aspect - some overtly spiritual, some not so explicitly. I found great encouragement from the various prayer guides and meditations in churches along the way, and the profound beauty of pilgrim blessings at mass. One abiding piece of advice from a French convent was to practise trust and simplicity day by day. I have held to that wisdom for many years since completing the Camino.
God bless you and your intention, and make you a blessing to fellow pilgrims along the way!

 

[Kelseyjoy1]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Hello, Check out Pilgrimheart.org A priest who has walked the Camino has lots of good prayers and advice. I have copied some of them to take and read/pray on my Camino which starts next week!

 

[Kirkie]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

I wish you buen camino when it happens. Others above have explained why you are missing something on this forum. I am also missing something. Abbreviations that were not included in the First Aid in English that was the rule book in my primary education did not include DM. However, I will use the pm option to write to you to say a little more that will not transgress any rules of this forum.

 

[anthony susan]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Yes, you are missing quite a bit, although I agree completely that if you just use a search engine, the religious/spiritual elements of the camino are not there, and with good reason: They are not mechanical, like what backpack or shoes to buy, or how to treat blisters. Even so, there has been a resurgence in recent years of including the spiritual side in many commentaries. In fact, I was surprised that the latest Brierley guide to the Camino Portugues includes extensive spiritual commentary.

You will find that many priests are now leading caminos. This is, in my view, the best way to walk a camino with a guaranteed Catholic/religious/spiritual element that overrides all others. The priest will conduct daily mass, often at historical churches that conduct services rarely.

But...you can walk the camino on your own as a primarily religious/spiritual pilgrimage, as it was intended and walked for over a thousand years. In fact, I am now at the annual national gathering of American Pilgrims on the Camino here at Lake Tahoe at a Presbyterian Retreat Center and one of our participants is a consecrated Catholic mendicant pilgrim. I had no idea the Catholic Church will consecrate such a person. But she is here and has amazing stories of walking not just the caminos in Spain, but paths all over the world as a mendicant pilgrim.

Note: For those who don't understand what a mendicant is, this is a person who relies solely on the charity of others to survive. Such pilgrims were very common for centuries, with one of the most famous St. Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits). And he now has his own camino, the Camino Ignaciano, from Loyola in the heart of the Basque Country, to Manresa, near Montserrat and Barcelona. He did this route 501 years ago in 1722.

 

[Brendan McManus]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Good observation, I think that there is a tendency to narrowly focus on gear and to avoid the spiritual dimension which is always there and which touches people in some kind of way. Have a look at my Camino books, Redemption Road, Contemplating the Camino and the Road to Manresa.

 

[nilesite]

See? And I find it interesting that nobody asks about what to see and do at the Cathedral in Santiago. All boots, socks, blisters - not much church.

 

[KMB]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Now that you say that, I agree. I’m a practicing Catholic. I have researched the various churches in the various towns and have taken notes so I know which ones to not miss and why they are important. I hope to hit a mass every night if possible as well.
I obtained most of my info from the book Camino de Santiago, Moon, by Beene Bahrami.

 

[Former member 59618]

All boots, socks, blisters - not much church

Because boots, socks and blisters are a common occurrence on the Camino. Not everyone goes to, or was raised in, the church.

 

[lt56ny]

Yes, you are “missing something” - you are missing the fact this very Catholic pilgrimage route has been recast as a spiritual journey for everyone. That hikers can make it “their own Camino” and still expect to be treated as pilgrims and receive a blessing from the Catholic Church upon completion even though they will complain about the rules laid out by the Church for receding a Compostela and attending Mass.

As a Catholic, I hope you see through all these hiking-specific questions and information requests to the heart of the Camino. I hope you attend Mass every night if possible, stay at parochials whem offered, and fully immerse yourself in what it means to be a Catholic on this route.

Bless you and your travels. DM me if you’d like to discuss this more as afraid others will be less welcoming to my opinion

I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.

I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.
There are some videos that may be of more interest to you:
This is my favorite camino documentary. It is more spiritual than religious but it does speak to the religious aspects of pilgrimage. It is called Looking for Infinity.

You may also like a new podcast by a camino historian that discusses the beginnings of medieval pilgrimage in Spain. It is very interesting (a little dry like listening to a college lecture) but full of information about all aspects of the beginnings of the camino.
https://scholarlypilgrim.com/

 

[Carmelo2]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Hello Kingdada, I am a very liberal practicing Catholic who walked with my wife from SJPDP to Santiago at age 70. I am a recently retired oncologist who took messages from my Catholic patients down the camino and left them at Cruz Ferro. I unfortunately got diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer shortly after my return and am writing this while receiving chemotherapy. (too much information I know)

We sought a private religious experience and sought to meet as many people as we could walking the trail. Seemingly most people we met were Catholic and sharing an experience similar to ours. Our first night in Borda was magical, we slept in the sheep herders cabin, dinner was a delight, and we met a dozen people we would see all the way along the trail. It was a very not in your face spiritual event for everyone.

The trail itself is set up in a way that it always walks up the highest hill to pass by a church, so you will have an opportunity to visit hundreds (cursing under your breath at the extra uphill hike). Churches were our favorite place to get a stamp. We were walking in August so most often we started before sunrise with headlamps. We listened for the first dog bark, the first rooster crow, and the first bird to sing to us knowing then, that God was in his place and walking with us.

Magical surprises happen everyday. You can't miss them. They can bring tears or joy. We tried to catch the pilgrims masses when available and were lucky to have days off in Leon, Astorga, Borgos and Pamplona so went to mass in the cathedral. The Pamplona mass for me was life changing. In contrast we visited the museum of human evolution in Borgos (highly recommended)

The not to miss, even for non catholics, is the mass in O'Cebreiro, and the monks chanting and mass in Rabanal del Camino. The chanting at Vespers (7pm) followed by a pilgrims mass at 9pm were the highlight of our trip.

Our trip was very spiritual and life changing. That would, I expect, be true for everyone. My only advice (old man, free advice, fairly reliable), is walk alone everyday for as long as you need. Patrick

 

[lalaone]

“I have often dreamed of arriving in a foreign city, alone and bereft of everything. I would have lived humbly, even in poverty. Above all, I would have kept the secret.”

These lines from French writer and philosopher Jean Grenier (1898-1971), provide another possible perspective on why it can be easier to discuss (or to find discussions) on shoes, food, the weather.

It’s not exactly a conflict – perhaps more of a creative tension – between the deep interiority of spiritual and religious experiences, and their public expression or sharing. It may not feel that way to all, and thank goodness for that! It is wonderful to find people who are more willing to talk. Personally however, I relate to this particular area of shyness or reticence.

These first lines, by the way, inspired Grenier’s gifted pupil Albert Camus (Nobel Prize, 1957) to become a writer himself. Camus reflected of his mentor: “He prefers to speak to us of the death of a cat, of a butcher’s illness, of the fragrance of flowers, of passing time. Nothing is really said. All is suggested with incomparable force and delicacy. This nimble and agile language, at once exact and dreamy, has all the fluidity of music. It flows rapidly, but its echoes are sustained. […] He speaks to us only of simple and familiar experiences in a language without affectation. Then he allows us to translate, each at his own convenience.”

This reminds me very much of the religious aspect of discussing the Camino, at least in certain circumstances. It reminds me to be sensitive to everything which remains unsaid and how it is sometimes expressed with great subtlety. Below is a further elaboration from Grenier, for anyone interested, again pointing toward deep spiritual passions and the tension between outreach and privacy, openly sharing and cautiously guarding:

“When I was living in the outskirts of an old Italian city, I used to return home by way of a narrow and badly-paved cobblestone lane cramped between two high walls. (I could hardly believe such heights existed out in the open country.) It was in April or May. There at a bend in the walkway, I was overtaken by the powerful fragrance of jasmine and lilacs. I could not see the flowers, hidden as they were by the wall. But for a long time I lingered in order to take in their aroma, and my night was fragrant with them. How well I understood those who so jealously enclosed the flowers they loved! Passion seeks to surround itself with fortresses, and at that moment I could adore the secret which gives beauty to each thing and without which there is no happiness.” (Islands: Lyrical Essays)

 

[David Tallan]

As others have pointed out, there are actually plenty of publications, online and offline, that discuss the religious aspects of the pilgrimage to Santiago. I think a discussion of which are the best guidebooks and other books for this aspect of the pilgrimage would be a welcome topic for the "Books about the Camino" sub-forum. Likewise while, as has been pointed out, religious discussions which can easily devolve into religious debates are frowned upon in these forums for that reason, it doesn't mean that we need to pretend that this is not, at root, a religious pilgrimage and that many people don't undertake it in that spirit. If you wanted to start a thread, for example, asking where one can join in masses along the route, I'm pretty confident that would be considered well within the rules.

 

[Former member 107885]

I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.


You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.
There are some videos that may be of more interest to you:
This is my favorite camino documentary. It is more spiritual than religious but it does speak to the religious aspects of pilgrimage. It is called Looking for Infinity.

You may also like a new podcast by a camino historian that discusses the beginnings of medieval pilgrimage in Spain. It is very interesting (a little dry like listening to a college lecture) but full of information about all aspects of the beginnings of the camino.
https://scholarlypilgrim.com/

What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.

 

[Former member 59618]

What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’?

It’s a common saying on the Camino. I don’t think it’s a scientific statement that necessarily warrants evidence.

 

[Former member 107885]

It’s a common saying on the Camino. I don’t think it’s a scientific statement that necessarily warrants evidence.

Ah ok. Thank you!

 

[lt56ny]

What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.

It is just a old expression that if you just look past the obvious you will see much truth in these words. It transcends just the standard meaning of tourist/pilgrim. If you would like to send me a private message I would be happy to explain further. Also what evidence do most of us have besides our own personal experiences, thoughts and ideas for so many queries and topics that our forum friends present or answer.

 

[Tincatinker]

What evidence do you have for your assertion that ‘tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful’? I am not a pilgrim, rather a traveller/ tourist and have not seen this demarcation.

“Why aren’t there public toilets whenever I want one?”. “Ketchup! What kind of restaurant doesn’t have ketchup?”. “I can hear the noise from the bar. I’m a pilgrim I need to sleep”. “They wouldn’t give me a discount even when I showed them my shell”. “Rabbit, I can’t eat Rabbit. Bring me a pizza”.

I could go on with quote after quote, mostly from this forum, not all.

My all time favourite. “When my kids had finished their showers I went for mine. The place was flooded and no-one had cleared it up”.

 

[Former member 107885]

It is just an old expression that if you just look past the obvious you will see much truth in these words. It transcends just the standard meaning of tourist/pilgrim. If you would like to send me a private message I would be happy to explain further. Also what evidence do most of us have besides our own personal experiences, thoughts and ideas for so many queries and topics that our forum friends present or answer.

No that’s fine. Thank you for responding. I noticed the comment in your post and was just interested, especially as I am not a pilgrim, but am very (too!) undemanding. Thanks again!

 

[Tigger]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

This is an international group from all walks of life. Everyone has a bit of something to offer. A lively debate can surface on anything including air in a bag. Please don't take anything personal. The love and disagreement is spread equally.

This group truly shines in both preparation for a Camino and with timely response when a pilgrim is under a little stress... (think I'm in Madrid and can't find my bus or read my train ticket or I saw a bed bug, what do I do?)

Keep an open heart and mind. Someone always seems to arrive with the answers.

 

[NancyZ]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

Buen Camino

 

[Texas Walker]

The pilgrimage aspect of the camino is not so popular, because the main opinion is that there is no relics of St James in Santiago de Compostela, neither in any place in Europe...
However, there is a spiritual aspect of the Way: it can be found in many building encountered while walking.

From my point of view, the most important aspect of the Camino takes place in the others pilgrims: you will be able to find a kind of magic in most of them...

My friend, you are coming very close to religious opinion here.
BC

 

[FrJimKingcsc]

I’m a priest doing his 4th Camino next month. Judgments abound, but it has been an evolving entity for 1200 years and not wholly what anyone wants it to be or might wish to impose upon it. But one of its great blessings is that it inclines people to be “Good Samaritans” to perfect strangers regardless of their varied perspectives on matters of faith. I appreciate how the Camino has taught me to avoid being judgmental about others who aren’t obviously “religious" or opt to do it in a different manner than I. The Camino helps me to try to do a better job of practicing what I preach.

There is indeed information about churches, Masses, and ways of praying along the way, but it is quite scattered. I’ve combed through a lot of webpages but didn’t know about pilgrimheart.org so thank you Kelseyjoy1. I’d also suggest To the Field of Stars by Fr. Kevin Codd and Antonio Danoz Fernandez’s “Walking to Santiago with the Gospel,” 35 daily meditations that can be used along the Camino available on the Buen Camino app.

Last year's stats from the Pilgrim's Office in Santiago indicated that 40% of people getting the compostela self-identify religious reasons as their main motivation and 49% indicate "religious/other" reasons. Those figures are probably somewhat inflated because they do not take into account the indeterminate number who don't make it to Santiago and/or choose not to get a compostela, but it is sufficient evidence in favor of supporting tens of thousands of pilgrims who are undertaking it for religious purposes.

So perhaps we can encourage those among us who would benefit from pooling resources to employ David Tallan's suggestion above or to brainstorm about other ways to share our thoughts productively without risking a dive into the polemics this forum's guidelines are understandably attempting to forestall? Buen Camino!

 

[C clearly]

If you wanted to start a thread, for example, asking where one can join in masses along the route, I'm pretty confident that would be considered well within the rules.

Sure, and tag the thread with "mass/church services" so it can join the other threads on that topic.

 

[trecile]

Sure, and tag the thread with "mass/church services" so it can join the other threads on that topic.

Thanks for pointing out that there are enough posts on the subject to qualify it as a subject that should have its own tag.

 

[Texas Walker]

I’m a priest doing his 4th Camino next month. Judgments abound, but it has been an evolving entity for 1200 years and not wholly what anyone wants it to be or might wish to impose upon it. But one of its great blessings is that it inclines people to be “Good Samaritans” to perfect strangers regardless of their varied perspectives on matters of faith. I appreciate how the Camino has taught me to avoid being judgmental about others who aren’t obviously “religious" or opt to do it in a different manner than I. The Camino helps me to try to do a better job of practicing what I preach.

There is indeed information about churches, Masses, and ways of praying along the way, but it is quite scattered. I’ve combed through a lot of webpages but didn’t know about pilgrimheart.org so thank you Kelseyjoy1. I’d also suggest To the Field of Stars by Fr. Kevin Codd and Antonio Danoz Fernandez’s “Walking to Santiago with the Gospel,” 35 daily meditations that can be used along the Camino available on the Buen Camino app.

Last year's stats from the Pilgrim's Office in Santiago indicated that 40% of people getting the compostela self-identify religious reasons as their main motivation and 49% indicate "religious/other" reasons. Those figures are probably somewhat inflated because they do not take into account the indeterminate number who don't make it to Santiago and/or choose not to get a compostela, but it is sufficient evidence in favor of supporting tens of thousands of pilgrims who are undertaking it for religious purposes.

So perhaps we can encourage those among us who would benefit from pooling resources to employ David Tallan's suggestion above or to brainstorm about other ways to share our thoughts productively without risking a dive into the polemics this forum's guidelines are understandably attempting to forestall? Buen Camino!

Also, in addition to your points, it has been apparent to me that some of the routes (Frances) have a lot of availability for religious pilgrims. More than one place that allowed me to spend a few moments in adoration of my savior in the Eucharist. (Hope this doesn't transgress the rules of the forum.) Other routes have had a lot less of that. (Translation: the churches aren't open.)
The pilgrimheart.org site appears to be a facebook site. I don't do "Fakebook."So I can't appreciate their thoughts and information.
There are many edifying shrines and experiences to be found on the various Camino routes. I hope that we can all share info as it comes to us, for the better experience of the gifts of the Camino.
BC to all.

 

[trecile]

The pilgrimheart.org site appears to be a facebook site. I don't do "Fakebook."So I can't appreciate their thoughts and information.

Pilgrimheart.org is not a FB group.
The other link to Catholics on Camino Pilgrimage that @Mobilemejen posted is a Facebook group.

 

[Dom1966]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

I did my first Camino in 2018 for religious reasons and I found the whole experience wonderful. I mainly walked with non religious people and I found I found we could have very interesting discussions. The Camino changed my life in many ways and was very healing. The beauty of walking across Spain just seemed to help me have a greater appreciation of God's wonderful creation. I am doing the Portuguese Camino in August and going to Fatima and I am really excited to see what the Camino will give me this time.
All the best on your walk and remember God is there in every step

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum and plan to do my first Camino this summer (2023). I have done a lot of research (YouTube channels, articles, websites, books) and I am sort of surprised that I read/heard nothing about the spiritual side of the Camino. Not that that would preclude me from going. I intend to go and my journey will be spiritually inclined. And, even though I am a practicing Catholic, I am honestly NOT judging here. I am merely curious why all sites, etc., that I have encountered talk about the terrain, or what to bring, or where to stay, or the friends that they have made, but no mention of it being a Catholic pilgrimage or anything remotely religious or spiritual or anything like that.

Am I missing something?

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

And God Bless.

I don’t think your missing anything!
Even when it’s featured on TV programs the Camino de Santiago de Compostela is looked on as more of a hiking trail with usually just a nod to the religious aspects of it.
When I walked the French Way in 2016 I did it for religious reasons and I met some very dedicated pilgrims so don’t be despondent there’s plenty of people who use it to enrich their spiritual lives, some of whom I’m sure you’ll meet.
There’s a lot of those who just treat it as a long hike but for those of us who want more than just a walk I’m sure you’ll find fulfilment. After 40 years being an atheist my conversion to Catholicism hit me like a truck and I absolutely loved my time on the Camino. For us religious folk it’s a pilgrimage and the other walkers are just enjoying a long hike.
Don’t forget to take your pebble to place at the foot of the Cruz de Ferro ( even though it reminded me of a telegraph pole I still had a tear in my eye as I made my prayer) you can get an onward blessing from the Brothers at the Mass in Rabanal del Camino.
Have a great pilgrimage Buen Camino.

 

[KingDada1]

It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.

But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.

You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !

I see. Makes sense. Thank you. Buen Camino. God Bless.

 

[KingDada1]

It's not merely about the rules here.
The camino has become very secularized and that's mostly what you see online.

But many many peoole walk with deep intent, spiritual or religious. They just aren't talking about it, posting blogs or vlogs, or otherwise making any noise online. No search will find their accounts because they aren't making it public.

You'll see quiet people when you get there.
They may not be saying much.
That's not their priority.
You may be one of them...you'll see.
Buen camino, @KingDada1 !

I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.

I like the way it is ‘marketed/positioned’ as ‘for everyone’, religious or not. If it had been communicated as a catholic religious pilgrimage it may well have put me off and that would have been a shame as I really enjoyed it. I feel that religious folks can get what they want out of it (loads of churches, for example) as can non religious folks with no real ‘conflict’.

I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.

 

[KingDada1]

Hello Kingdada, I am a very liberal practicing Catholic who walked with my wife from SJPDP to Santiago at age 70. I am a recently retired oncologist who took messages from my Catholic patients down the camino and left them at Cruz Ferro. I unfortunately got diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer shortly after my return and am writing this while receiving chemotherapy. (too much information I know)

We sought a private religious experience and sought to meet as many people as we could walking the trail. Seemingly most people we met were Catholic and sharing an experience similar to ours. Our first night in Borda was magical, we slept in the sheep herders cabin, dinner was a delight, and we met a dozen people we would see all the way along the trail. It was a very not in your face spiritual event for everyone.

The trail itself is set up in a way that it always walks up the highest hill to pass by a church, so you will have an opportunity to visit hundreds (cursing under your breath at the extra uphill hike). Churches were our favorite place to get a stamp. We were walking in August so most often we started before sunrise with headlamps. We listened for the first dog bark, the first rooster crow, and the first bird to sing to us knowing then, that God was in his place and walking with us.

Magical surprises happen everyday. You can't miss them. They can bring tears or joy. We tried to catch the pilgrims masses when available and were lucky to have days off in Leon, Astorga, Borgos and Pamplona so went to mass in the cathedral. The Pamplona mass for me was life changing. In contrast we visited the museum of human evolution in Borgos (highly recommended)

The not to miss, even for non catholics, is the mass in O'Cebreiro, and the monks chanting and mass in Rabanal del Camino. The chanting at Vespers (7pm) followed by a pilgrims mass at 9pm were the highlight of our trip.

Our trip was very spiritual and life changing. That would, I expect, be true for everyone. My only advice (old man, free advice, fairly reliable), is walk alone everyday for as long as you need. Patrick
View attachment 144681View attachment 144682View attachment 144683View attachment 144684View attachment 144685View attachment 144686

Thank you for sharing your experience on the Way. What route did you take? What is SJPDP? God Bless.

 

[Bradypus]

What is SJPDP?

Saint Jean Pied de Port. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the keyboard!

 

[Botaivica]

What is interesting to me here is what FrJimKingcsc mentioned, how many pilgrims declared that they came to the Camino for religious reasons.
Now there is no more data in the statistics, but according to memory, about 40% of pilgrims went for religious reasons, about 40% for religious and other reasons, and only about 20% for other reasons.
If we cannot write about religious topics here, then the vast majority of pilgrims are deprived of their questions and answers.
So it turns out that the minority dictates what can and cannot be written on the forum.

The main reason is the possibility of quarrels among users of the forum.
We can argue about anything, some carry walking sticks, some don't, some only sleep in hotels, some only in albergues...
Someone gets offended if you tell them they are a walker, someone if they walk slowly, someone if they walk fast.......
Then why is it forbidden to talk only about religious topics?

I will give two examples.

Part CF I walked together with a Japanese, a Buddhist. He told me that he came to the Camino out of his religious feelings. Before Camino, he made a pilgrimage to Shikoku, 88 temples. When I went to mass, he went too, when the priest gave the pilgrim's blessing, he went too. He said that this is the tradition of the Camino and that he respects it, no matter that he is a Buddhist and not a Catholic.

I am particularly sorry for the second example, the church in O Cebreiro. I was preparing for my first Camino for several months, and I also used this forum. I also watched religious topics, but there were very few of them then. When I started writing my book about Camino, I found something that I had missed in O Cebreiro. The blood of Christ. I was in church, I was at mass, but I did not know that in the right altar in the chalice is the blood of Christ. In all those few months of preparation, I didn't come across that information.

But that might be a good reason to go to CF one more time.

I suggest Ivar to think about religious topics, in any way.

 

[KingDada1]

I am not religious and when I did my first Camino I had no idea about the religious aspect of it! I pretty much decided to do it at a few days notice as was already in mainland Europe and remembered a friend doing it but they never mentioned religion. When I did it, it was during Covid, and the folks I met, mainly younger Europeans, never mentioned religion either, which I didn’t really notice at the time, as was not really aware of the whole pilgrimage thing till I found this forum.

I like the way it is ‘marketed/positioned’ as ‘for everyone’, religious or not. If it had been communicated as a catholic religious pilgrimage it may well have put me off and that would have been a shame as I really enjoyed it. I feel that religious folks can get what they want out of it (loads of churches, for example) as can non religious folks with no real ‘conflict’.

I am not a catholic and not religious but I agree with your post completely. I am constantly amazed by many of the complaints I have read and heard on my many caminos. Having said that no person's reason to walk is more valid or authentic than another person's method or reason to walk. I may not be a religious person let alone Catholic but I have my own reasons and my own meaning for what pilgrimage means and how sacred and important it is to me and to the collective spirit and hope for our world. I have just mentioned that I walk as simple a camino as possible. I stay in parochials, donativos and municipals whenever possible. I have stayed in parochials where I have been offered religious items (Sorry I am not sure what to call them), and refused telling the nun or priest that I am Jewish. I have only been met with kindness and love and reminded that Jesus does not judge and he welcomes all no matter what. I have even been told on more than a few occasions that those who do judge or reject my or any other belief is not a true believer in the teachings of Jesus. I cook most of my own meals and try when possible to eat communally. There is no truer adage than "tourists demand and pilgrims are thankful" I think at times there are pilgrims who may forget this. No one is perfect and we all bitch and moan but we need to come back as quickly as possible to forgiveness.


You are so correct regarding the many videos and websites that all pretty much say about the same things but that is what most people look for and want and often they serve a purpose for many.
There are some videos that may be of more interest to you:
This is my favorite camino documentary. It is more spiritual than religious but it does speak to the religious aspects of pilgrimage. It is called Looking for Infinity.

You may also like a new podcast by a camino historian that discusses the beginnings of medieval pilgrimage in Spain. It is very interesting (a little dry like listening to a college lecture) but full of information about all aspects of the beginnings of the camino.
https://scholarlypilgrim.com/

Thank you for your kind words, and for sharing some of your experience. You seem like a wonderful, open human being.

 

[dougfitz]

. For us religious folk it’s a pilgrimage and the other walkers are just enjoying a long hike.

That's just not true. I won't say more than that. It's insensitive and inflammatory remarks like this that that beget the sorts of discussion that quickly becomes vitriolic.

 

[Kathar1na]

When I started writing my book about Camino, I found something that I had missed in O Cebreiro. The blood of Christ. I was in church, I was at mass, but I did not know that in the right altar in the chalice is the blood of Christ. In all those few months of preparation, I didn't come across that information.

If you wish to blame the forum for not knowing about the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro, then blame those posters who say that you don’t need a guidebook for the Camino Francés but there a plenty of posters who recommend otherwise. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt and the fact that this legend / myth / story exists and was once known throughout Europe is not off topic on this forum. It was mentioned as recently as ten days ago in this thread: Holy Week ceremonies.

 

[Bradypus]

. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt

I walked my first Camino using Elias Valiña's 1985 guidebook. No chance of missing the story in that one. The prominence might have something to do with Don Elias being O Cebreiro's priest and therefore at least partly the custodian of the relics of the miracle!

 

[Botaivica]

If you wish to blame the forum for not knowing about the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro, then blame those posters who say that you don’t need a guidebook for the Camino Francés but there a plenty of posters who recommend otherwise. The Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro is mentioned in every guidebook worth its salt and the fact that this legend / myth / story exists and was once known throughout Europe is not off topic on this forum. It was mentioned as recently as ten days ago in this thread: Holy Week ceremonies.

Hi Kathar1na,
as I wrote, when I was preparing for my first Camino 2016, there was little information about O Cebreiros on this forum. And seven years have passed since then
and I'm not a fan of guides

 

[peregrina2000]

I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.

Just to be clear on the topic of “muzzling.” If you are suggesting that the forum is muzzling the discussion, please remember rule 2. Ivar has decided that religion is one of those hot button topics that never ends well.

2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics "always" end in a fight, so let's not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion is closely related, so some leeway will be given.

Separating out the religious from the camino is sometimes difficult, but I hope you can understand that the camino is for the religious and the non-religious alike. When the discussion drifts too heavily into the religious (or anti-religious) side of things, we will delete it.

 

[Botaivica]

Just to be clear on the topic of “muzzling.” If you are suggesting that the forum is muzzling the discussion, please remember rule 2. Ivar has decided that religion is one of those hot button topics that never ends well.

2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics "always" end in a fight, so let's not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion is closely related, so some leeway will be given.

Separating out the religious from the camino is sometimes difficult, but I hope you can understand that the camino is for the religious and the non-religious alike. When the discussion drifts too heavily into the religious (or anti-religious) side of things, we will delete it.

Rules exist, but rules can be changed.
Why not try?

 

[Kathar1na]

when I was preparing for my first Camino 2016, there was little information about O Cebreiros on this forum. And seven years have passed since then and I'm not a fan of guides

The first mention of the Eucharistic miracle of Cebreiro that turned up in a quick search was ten years ago in 2013 in Legends of the Camino. My point is that mentioning religious related topics are not forbidden as such and that there is no reason to change the forum rules because members did not find such information.

Nor is it the idea of the forum to replace guidebooks or any other book, be it religious, spiritual or secular. People share what they want to share voluntarily on the forum - there are no obligations to provide specific information. BTW, I personally recommend Gitlitz'/Davidson's The Pilgrimage to Santiago. And I don't know how many times this guidebook has already been recommended on the forum. Lots of times in any case.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If you walk the Camino with holy intent, you will find holiness singing and shining out all around you. It is an infrastructure for prayer, developed over centuries. Not just in the sacred art and architecture, but in the faces of the people all around you.

 

[Bradypus]

Rules exist, but rules can be changed.
Why not try?

For the reason stated in Rule 2: "These topics "always" end in a fight". I suspect that if this rule were to be dropped then this forum would soon become a far more hostile and divided place than it currently is. The moderators do allow a reasonable degree of leeway in the interpretation of the rule. If you really want to have a discussion on religious topics there are thousands of other places on the internet which will happily offer you space. And quite possibly more heat than light in the process.

 

[natefaith]

There is a difference between posters asking for resources to aid them in their spiritual pilgrimage - which the Forum does allow (and these threads can be found with Searches) - and discussing which religious aspects are correct, incorrect, existent, nonexistent, etc. Opinions about which religion or faith practice(s) are right or wrong, and any kind of proselytizing for any religious faith will almost always be deleted, just like we try to keep a handle on members opining over what makes a "true" pilgrim rather than a tourist.

To use a less-charged topic, we also don't allow a lot of talk here about sports teams. If people came on and said they championed Barcelona over Madrid, or that Messi or Ronaldo sucked, those discussions would break the rules (and raise a lot of blood pressure for those particular fans).

So do feel free to ask for resources that will aid you in your own journey. But discussions about actual religious principles can too quickly and too often stray into vicious debate, and that's what we will avoid here, after years and years of experience and hard lessons.

 

[trecile]

If you really want to have a discussion on religious topics there are thousands of other places on the internet which will happily offer you space. And quite possibly more heat than light in the process.

Members are also free to start private conversations with other members. In fact you can have several members form a group to discuss such things. Simply click the envelope icon at the top of the page and then click on "start a new conversation." From there you can add whichever forum members you want to the conversation. If someone has invited you to a conversation that you don't want to be a part of there is a "leave" button at the top of the conversation thread.

 

[C clearly]

I agree with you; it SHOULD be for everyone, religious or not. But I think it should be for the religious, too. And we should not be muzzled for doing so.

Welcome to the forum, @KingDada1 . You have been a member for 2 days, and have posted on one thread, so I am not sure what muzzling you might have experienced here.

There have been some very good explanations of what type of religious discussion are not allowed here on the forum, and why - @natefaith's post above, for example

There are many posts that ask and answer straightforward questions about religious elements - sites, services, history, etc. - of the Camino. We do not allow proselytizing or discussion of religious dogma. With time and attention to the forum community, it is quite easy to identify which forum members might be interested in further private Conversations. (Private conversations must still adhere to rules of civility and no one should feel compelled to engage in them.)

Any reasonable and open-minded person should recognize that there is a need for us to set certain boundaries. The moderators try to be flexible and allow discussion as it relates to the Camino. Those who find our boundaries to be too restrictive might try starting up their own public internet forum and see how that goes.

 

[KingDada1]

Welcome to the forum, @KingDada1 . You have been a member for 2 days, and have posted on one thread, so I am not sure what muzzling you might have experienced here.

There have been some very good explanations of what type of religious discussion are not allowed here on the forum, and why - @natefaith's post above, for example

There are many posts that ask and answer straightforward questions about religious elements - sites, services, history, etc. - of the Camino. We do not allow proselytizing or discussion of religious dogma. With time and attention to the forum community, it is quite easy to identify which forum members might be interested in further private Conversations. (Private conversations must still adhere to rules of civility and no one should feel compelled to engage in them.)

Any reasonable and open-minded person should recognize that there is a need for us to set certain boundaries. The moderators try to be flexible and allow discussion as it relates to the Camino. Those who find our boundaries to be too restrictive might try starting up their own public internet forum and see how that goes.

I don't recall saying that I experienced being muzzled; I feel that being open and inclusive also means being open and inclusive towards people who are religious, too.

 

[Tincatinker]

And we should not be muzzled for doing so.

Forgetful or forgiving?
As the forum’s tolerated pagan, yep, rocks, sunrises, spilt wine and all I’ve never felt muzzled. Just tried to haul myself in now and again

 

[C clearly]

I don't recall saying that I experienced being muzzled

You introduced the idea of muzzling in post #52 above, as if it were relevant to this forum.

I feel that being open and inclusive also means being open and inclusive towards people who are religious, too.

Yes, we fully support that. In fact, it is one of the reasons we do not allow religious dogma or proselytizing, since what is truth to one person, may be disturbing to another.

This has been an interesting discussion, but I think we have covered it adequately for the moment. It is time to take a break!

 

[dick bird]

Rules exist, but rules can be changed.
Why not try?

Because we know of no good reason to change the rules, but feel free to present a reasoned argument if you happen to know of one. Most forum members are happy to accept the rules as they are, by the way.