Footwear and Unreasonable vs Reasonable Expectations

[davebugg]

This is a repost which I had initially made based on decades as a professional backpacking and footwear gear tester. I will also stipulate that there is an individuality to shoe choices . . not just because of how they fit, but also how the footwear feels and how much the end user likes the specific usability of a specific shoe or boot.

An example of usability is a 'tactical boot' with a side zipper which allows the user to adjust the laces of the boot any way they need to be tied, and then have them remain that way. Taking the lightweight boot on and off is accomplished by using a heavy-duty zipper built into the side of the boot. Quick off and on, yet the laces keep reproducing their fit.

I will soon be posting a review of such a piece of footwear which after 6 months of heavy testing, have grown a bit enamored of.

Trail and street runners absolutely will not last for as long as a boot or a heavier hiking shoe. When lighter weight and cushioning for the feet are the primary focus of the user, the materials used are more friable than those used on heavier footwear; materials science has not reached a point where durability AND lightweight cushioning coexist. Maybe someday. Keep in mind that the actual reasons for choosing a trail or road running shoe is what makes their overall lifespan shorter.

I used 5 pairs of trail runners on my thru-hike of the 2,650 mile long Pacific Crest Trail. I bought 6 pairs ahead of time and mailed one pair to a resupply point at defined intervals. Only one pair was truly trash-worthy when replaced; the other 4 pair had some good life left to them. I did not have the luxury of waiting for the BEST and optimal time for replacement of shoes as the hike proceeded, so I had to be exceedingly conservative on determining the margin for usability before replacement.

Why would I choose that type of footwear? My preference was for a shoe with significantly lighter weight, lessened drain on energy levels caused by lifting the weight on my feet - step after step - for 24 to 26-miles each day, lessened risk for injury (fatigued ankle and lower leg muscles and supporting structures are more prone to injury), and the extra comfort provided by the cushioning.

Those are my reasons. While these same reasons are shared by many backpacking enthusiasts in the US (I do not know about the rest of the world) others may prefer heavier footwear including more traditional hiking boots. I used to be in that camp at one time early in my backpacking and climbing career, too.

I do not let longevity of footwear determine what I wear. I focus on comfort of the footwear's fit and feel, and what the overall energy expenditure will be in using them. Then I consider what the conditions are expected to be like (cold, snow, ice). From there, I make my decision.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Trail and street runners absolutely will not last for as long as a boot or a heavier hiking shoe.

Yep.

Though lighter hiking footwear can make good sense for lighter pilgrims, and so for peregrinas in particular. And also children.

Why would I choose that type of footwear? My preference was for a shoe with significantly lighter weight, lessened drain on energy levels caused by lifting the weight on my feet - step after step - for 24 to 26-miles each day, lessened risk for injury (fatigued ankle and lower leg muscles and supporting structures are more prone to injury), and the extra comfort provided by the cushioning.

Excellent reasons, but then so many antithetics for any Camino except a shorter 800K - 1,000K one (or less) along one of the major Spanish or Portuguese routes.

Replacement footwear is great in those conditions ; often impossible away from the beaten track or trail.

I do not let longevity of footwear determine what I wear. I focus on comfort of the footwear's fit and feel, and what the overall energy expenditure will be in using them. Then I consider what the conditions are expected to be like (cold, snow, ice). From there, I make my decision.

As do I -- and those same considerations have led me to wearing French Army boots 6-12/7/365.

As to longevity, for me it's vital -- my last pair lasted me 5,000K on my last Camino. And there was no way for me to replace them on the fly if they had broken !!

 

[duncanwhyte]

It's probably worth having them made to fit by a traditional boot maker. Some still exist. It would cost a lot, but the only way to buy the exact fit you need.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I will soon be posting a review of such a piece of footwear which after 6 months of heavy testing, have grown a bit enamored of.

DaveBugg, I am curiously waiting for your upcoming post on the newest footwear review you have become enamoured with; I consider you our "Gear Guru".

 

[TexasIndia]

...
Why would I choose that type of footwear? My preference was for a shoe with significantly lighter weight, lessened drain on energy levels caused by lifting the weight on my feet - step after step - for 24 to 26-miles each day, lessened risk for injury (fatigued ankle and lower leg muscles and supporting structures are more prone to injury), and the extra comfort provided by the cushioning.
...
I do not let longevity of footwear determine what I wear. I focus on comfort of the footwear's fit and feel, and what the overall energy expenditure will be in using them. Then I consider what the conditions are expected to be like (cold, snow, ice). From there, I make my decision.

Thanks so much for posting. I've been trying to decide which to bring this year. I started on the Camino del Norte through Llanes last October. On Oct 1 ( 6 days!) I'll be in Llanes again to finish up on the Norte/Primitivo. Last year I wore trail runners and I was usually fine.

I have since bought a pair of hiking boots and have been hiking with them. They are good on rocky trails. I like both! I've been trying to pick one over the other. I was only going to bring my boots, but after reading your post, I'm going to bring both. The trail runners should be good for days when my legs need a break. The trail runners have some life still in them, but they wouldn't last the whole way. I can ditch them when they are finished.

I've had people say, that the boots provide better ankle support, but there's always a cost. If the ankles are supported better, there's got to be a strain some where else!

Both the boots and the runners are Topos. I prefer them over Altras, by far!

 

[davebugg]

Thanks so much for posting. I've been trying to decide which to bring this year. I started on the Camino del Norte through Llanes last October. On Oct 1 ( 6 days!) I'll be in Llanes again to finish up on the Norte/Primitivo. Last year I wore trail runners and I was usually fine.

I have since bought a pair of hiking boots and have been hiking with them. They are good on rocky trails. I like both! I've been trying to pick one over the other. I was only going to bring my boots, but after reading your post, I'm going to bring both. The trail runners should be good for days when my legs need a break. The trail runners have some life still in them, but they wouldn't last the whole way. I can ditch them when they are finished.

I've had people say, that the boots provide better ankle support, but there's always a cost. If the ankles are supported better, there's got to be a strain some where else!

Both the boots and the runners are Topos. I prefer them over Altras, by far!

I appreciate your kind words. Let's explore the difference between ankle 'support' versus ankle 'protection' as those terms sometimes are used interchangeably, yet they are terms which have distinct meanings.

Ankle Support: There are those who may have weak ankle supporting structures where a higher top boot could help provide some small level of assistance with those supporting structures. However, the best thing to do if there are no degenerative or deformational issues - either from birth or from prior injury - is to incorporate exercises of the ankle structures - muscles, ligaments, and tendons - which will allow those structures to build strength. Examples include walking on gentle, uneven surfaces with a shoe that is designed with a wide mid and outer sole at the heel. . . as seen in many trail runners. Other exercises include balancing on one foot, using a teeter board, doing rotational foot exercises wearing increasing levels of weights on the foot as ankles grow stronger, etc.

Ankle Protection: Above-the-ankle boots are not rigid enough up their sides to provide any meaningful splinting action to protect ankles from a twisting or bending caused injury.

For ankle concerns regarding protection against injury, meaningful help is provided with the use of ankle splints. These are placed inside a shoe or boot and extend up past the ankle. Unlike the leather uppers on a boot, splints ARE rigid enough to provide levels of protection against twisting and severe bending injuries at the ankle.

Rather than bringing a pair of running shoes if I am backpacking or walking in back-country terrain where I will use my Lowa boots, I will bring a lightweight camp shoe or sandal. . .most of these will be sufficient to walk around town in, go to dinner, do chores, etc. Something like the Xero-Z-trail hiking sandals weigh just over 8 ounces/227 grams per pair. Xero Z-Trail Women's Sandal (click on blue link)

 

[JabbaPapa]

Ankle Support: There are those who may have weak ankle supporting structures where a higher top boot could help provide some small level of assistance with those supporting structures. However, the best thing to do if there is no degenerative issues involved

There are also those with ankle malformation problems, for whom the support is not small, but essential.

is to incorporate exercises of the ankle structures - muscles, ligaments, and tendons - which will allow those structures to build strength. Examples include walking on gentle, uneven surfaces with a shoe that is designed with a wide mid and outer sole at the heel. . . as seen in many trail runners. Other exercises include balancing on one foot, using a teeter board, doing rotational foot exercises wearing increasing levels of weights on the foot as ankles grow stronger, etc.

All true, but this is less important on any shorter Caminos less than ~1,000K.

Most first Caminos, in pure walking terms, are really just about learning how to walk properly, so that broad, comfortable, supple, light shoes are typically most appropriate.

Ankle Protection: Above-the-ankle boots are not rigid enough up their sides to provide any meaningful splinting action to protect ankles from a twisting or bending caused injury.

Without my army boots, this would be a constant risk.

So no, Dave, sorry, but on this one you're just wrong -- though I'd guess from simple lack of personal experience of being in constant and permanent daily risk of such injury, on Camino as much as off.

I would agree that those without any precedent risk of such injuries would get very little benefit from such high boots.

On my own part, I am occasionally forced to tighten the straps above my ankles simply to be able to walk ; hopefully some extra few K. Sometimes, the extra support has let me overcome an ankle twist and walk 10K or more.

It is true that such boots provide little in terms of support to those with well-formed ankles and feet and having expected and/or "average" height and weight and so on -- precisely why I generally recommend not using what I need myself -- but your above statement is still incorrect as towards pilgrims/hikers who are in a significantly greater state of risk from twisting, bending, sprains than is typical.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Apart from all of that, I would really only recommend strong leather hiking boots to those walking very long Caminos or to those planning to walk in wet, cold, Winter weather.

I do recommend leather, with rubber soles -- but light weight rambling shoes, not heavy hiking boots.

 

[C clearly]

However, the best thing to do if there is no degenerative issues involved, is to incorporate exercises of the ankle structures - muscles, ligaments, and tendons - which will allow those structures to build strength.

All true, but this is less important on any shorter Caminos less than ~1,000K.

C'mon, JP, I don't think you are being helpful to minimize the importance of such exercises for people walking "only" 800 km with weak ankles. Which covers the vast majority of people seeking advice here on the forum. I would think that the "best thing" would be to do those exercises. Some people may require more, but the exercises will still be beneficial.

your above statement is still incorrect as towards pilgrims/hikers who are in a significantly greater state of risk from twisting, bending, sprains than is typical.

I am not sure which statement was "incorrect." Dave provided enough qualifiers to exempt/recognize exceptional people like you from his generalized advice.

 

[JabbaPapa]

C'mon, JP, I don't think you are being helpful to minimize the importance of such exercises for people walking "only" 800 km with weak ankles. Which covers the vast majority of people seeking advice here on the forum. I would think that the "best thing" would be to do those exercises. Some people may require more, but the exercises will still be beneficial.

I disagree -- pilgrims who actually need stronger ankle support do not need to be discouraged from acquiring it.

I am not sure which statement was "incorrect." Dave provided enough qualifiers to exempt/recognize exceptional people like you from his generalized advice.

Dave and I have been sparring on this detail question for a while, and my detail issue with his latest post is that whilst he properly made excellent allowance for degenerative conditions, he did not make similar allowance for questions of outright anatomical malformation, that is unlikely to be corrected through exercises or by using lighter footwear.

It's certainly no attempt to undermine his generally excellent advice !!

 

[C clearly]

I disagree -- pilgrims who actually need stronger ankle support do not need to be discouraged from acquiring

OK, but you quoted a recommendation to do exercises.

he did not make similar allowance for questions of outright anatomical malformation

Surely, anyone with outright anatomical malformations would understand that generalized advice for the normal anatomy may not fully apply. It isn't necessary to continue the "sparring on this detail question."

 

[davebugg]

There are also those with ankle malformation problems, for whom the support is not small, but essential.

That was mentioned. That was intended to be covered under 'degenerative' issues. I do see your point, however. I will edit my post to include anatomical malformations. . I think that will be inclusive of the wide general range of abnormalities that are not corrected by therapy or exercise. What say you?

All true, but this is less important on any shorter Caminos less than ~1,000K.

Not at all. It is important for normal function in everyday life as well. From helping with balance issues to dealing with aches in the ankle area due to weak structures. The strengthening does not distinguish between a foot slipping into a depression on a path or on a long camino or while walking to the mailbox. A strengthened ankle is better able to handle such things.

 

[SabsP]

I would love to have @davebugg around when buying new walkingshoes!
Though I am quite happy with the salesperson in my specialised outdoorstore , but still.

I have the luck of combining a serious pes cavus ( hollow foot ) with a hallux valgus ( bunion ) , especially toes of left foot.

Thanks to a highly praised doctor specialist and a brilliant technician who makes my custommade insoles I am able to walk without much pain and inconvenience.
Due to the material and structure of the insoles I am most comfortable with leather walking Hanwag boots ( with ankle support ). Full leather as to make them as much breathable as possible, compared with my older Lowa GTX.

I am positively jealous with those who are able to walk with light trailshoes. But unfortunately they do not work for me. I bought a pair of Asolos in the sales and yes my insoles fitted but form and structure were not for me. They push my insoles up so I ended up with a weird blister on my left ankle.

 

[TexasIndia]

I appreciate your kind words. Let's explore the difference between ankle 'support' versus ankle 'protection' as those terms sometimes are used interchangeably, yet they are terms which have distinct meanings.

Ankle Support: There are those who may have weak ankle supporting structures where a higher top boot could help provide some small level of assistance with those supporting structures. However, the best thing to do if there is no degenerative issues involved, is to incorporate exercises of the ankle structures - muscles, ligaments, and tendons - which will allow those structures to build strength. Examples include walking on gentle, uneven surfaces with a shoe that is designed with a wide mid and outer sole at the heel. . . as seen in many trail runners. Other exercises include balancing on one foot, using a teeter board, doing rotational foot exercises wearing increasing levels of weights on the foot as ankles grow stronger, etc.

Ankle Protection: Above-the-ankle boots are not rigid enough up their sides to provide any meaningful splinting action to protect ankles from a twisting or bending caused injury.
...
Rather than bringing a pair of running shoes if I am backpacking or walking in back-country terrain where I will use my Lowa boots, I will bring a lightweight camp shoe or sandal. . .most of these will be sufficient to walk around town in, go to dinner, do chores, etc. Something like the Xero-Z-trail hiking sandals weigh just over 8 ounces/227 grams per pair. Xero Z-Trail Women's Sandal (click on blue link)

I have very loose ligaments around my ankles (heredity). My ankles will bend more than 90 degrees In all directions. However, when I roll an ankle, I may fall, but don't sprain my ankles easily. I've worked hard on building up supporting muscles around my ankle area, but combined with a super high arch, I'm not as stable as others. I do have very strong feet, calfs.

i like the boots for the soles on the more rugged terrain.

Ankle Support: There are those who may have weak ankle supporting structures where a higher top boot could help provide some small level of assistance with those supporting structures. However, the best thing to do if there are no degenerative or deformational issues - either from birth or from prior injury - is to incorporate exercises of the ankle structures - muscles, ligaments, and tendons - which will allow those structures to build strength. Examples include walking on gentle, uneven surfaces with a shoe that is designed with a wide mid and outer sole at the heel. . . as seen in many trail runners. Other exercises include balancing on one foot, using a teeter board, doing rotational foot exercises wearing increasing levels of weights on the foot as ankles grow stronger, etc.

Ankle Protection: Above-the-ankle boots are not rigid enough up their sides to provide any meaningful splinting action to protect ankles from a twisting or bending caused injuries

Rather than bringing a pair of running shoes if I am backpacking or walking in back-country terrain where I will use my Lowa boots, I will bring a lightweight camp shoe or sandal. . .most of these will be sufficient to walk around town in, go to dinner, do chores, etc. Something like the Xero-Z-trail hiking sandals weigh just over 8 ounces/227 grams per pair. Xero Z-Trail Women's Sandal (click on blue link)

i always bring camp shoes. Right now my favorites are Oofos

 

[JabbaPapa]

That was mentioned. That was intended to be covered under 'degenerative' issues. I do see your point, however. I will edit my post to include anatomical malformations. . I think that will be inclusive of the wide general range of abnormalities that are not corrected by therapy or exercise. What say you?

Great.

I'm just a bit sensitive about this as I have both malformation and degenerative issues.

If it were just degenerative, the boots would be less necessary. And I could once use light shoes day-to-day about town with just the malformation, but absolutely needed boots on my first Camino when I was 28. 30 years later post-degeneration, I need them every day, but that's the combination of malformation with degeneration rather than either on its own.