HELP ASAP PLEASE

[AnticoUomo]

I flew into Italy on January 14th and planned to leave here on April 14th (at the end of my 90 day Visa) for France so that I could begin the Camino on Good Friday (April 18th). Now I am thinking I totally blew it and will not be allowed into France because my 90 days will be expired. I did a little research and found out that Spain is a lot more lenient than France (or pretty much anywhere else in Western Europe) regarding the 90 day rule, especially when leaving. So here is my question: If I leave Italy for France sooner (let's say the 5th of April), begin my Camino on the 7th, and cross into Spain BEFORE my 90 day Visa expires, will I be good to go for the remainder of my pilgrimage? This pilgrimage is just so important to me, and I feel like an idiot for not having realized this problem sooner, but it is what it is. PLEASE HELP!!! Thanks

 

[mspath]

AnticoUomo,

I suggest that you obtain official diplomatic assistance with your quandary. Call or visit the Spanish Embassy or Consulate in Italy now and ask their advice.

Good luck with your plans,

Margaret Meredith

 

[AnticoUomo]

Thank you Margaret

 

[amorfati1]

which country did issue your passport?

 

[indyinmaine]

I flew into Italy on January 14th and planned to leave here on April 14th (at the end of my 90 day Visa) for France so that I could begin the Camino on Good Friday (April 18th). Now I am thinking I totally blew it and will not be allowed into France because my 90 days will be expired. I did a little research and found out that Spain is a lot more lenient than France (or pretty much anywhere else in Western Europe) regarding the 90 day rule, especially when leaving. So here is my question: If I leave Italy for France sooner (let's say the 5th of April), begin my Camino on the 7th, and cross into Spain BEFORE my 90 day Visa expires, will I be good to go for the remainder of my pilgrimage? This pilgrimage is just so important to me, and I feel like an idiot for not having realized this problem sooner, but it is what it is. PLEASE HELP!!! Thanks

Buon giorno!
Antico, even with an Italian "name" I'm assuming you're from outside the EU. Visa extensions always take time but that you have. If you're in one of the EU reciprocal countries then I think I'm correct in saying that if you depart the EU (get a stamp!) for a day or two you can reenter and another 90 day will start. Having said that if you have an "actual" (paper or stamped in your passport) visa then it get a little trickier. You might have to start the process all over again.
Anyone "along the Camino" could notice that you have overstayed and technically report you to the police and they could ask you to leave. That seldom happens but it's till a possibility.
If you're from one of the reciprocal countries I'd go and spend a day or two in Switzerland, ask them to stamp your entry, and then go to Spain. That way you would have reset the 90-day clock.

 

[AnticoUomo]

Buon giorno!
Antico, even with an Italian "name" I'm assuming you're from outside the EU. Visa extensions always take time but that you have. If you're in one of the EU reciprocal countries then I think I'm correct in saying that if you depart the EU (get a stamp!) for a day or two you can reenter and another 90 day will start. Having said that if you have an "actual" (paper or stamped in your passport) visa then it get a little trickier. You might have to start the process all over again.
Anyone "along the Camino" could notice that you have overstayed and technically report you to the police and they could ask you to leave. That seldom happens but it's till a possibility.
If you're from one of the reciprocal countries I'd go and spend a day or two in Switzerland, ask them to stamp your entry, and then go to Spain. That way you would have reset the 90-day clock.

Hi, and thanks! I am Italian-American and from the U.S.A. Okay, so if I leave the E.U. just for a short while I may be able to reenter and start the clock all over again?

 

[AnticoUomo]

which country did issue your passport?

The U.S.A.

 

[CanPete]

Is there actually any passport control into Spain from southern France ???

I'm Dutch by origin, now Canadian citizen . . . In my experience, once you've entered the EU it'll be the last time they check your passport until you fly out of, or take other transport (bus, train) outside of the EU again . . .

 

[OzAnnie]

Anticouomo
Most definitely take Margaret's advice. Too critical. From recent info I've read on 'schengen' visa requirements for ozzies (not sure where you are from) leaving for another stamp doesn't cut it, as the 90 days for us applies to max period of 90 days within period of 6months. Any chance you could start Camino sooner ?
I'm definitely not an expert so again, go with Margaret advice ASAP. All the best , feel for you . Annie

 

[AnticoUomo]

Anticouomo
Most definitely take Margaret's advice. Too critical. From recent info I've read on 'schengen' visa requirements for ozzies (not sure where you are from) leaving for another stamp doesn't cut it, as the 90 days for us applies to max period of 90 days within period of 6months. Any chance you could start Camino sooner ?
I'm definitely not an expert so again, go with Margaret advice ASAP. All the best , feel for you . Annie

Thx Annie. I am from the U.S., but will start NEXT WEEK if I have to!!! But even then, I won't finish until AFTER my 90 days has expired. I will call the Spanish Embassy in Rome tomorrow morning. Ugh...

 

[AnticoUomo]

Is there actually any passport control into Spain from southern France ???

I'm Dutch by origin, now Canadian citizen . . . In my experience, once you've entered the EU it'll be the last time they check your passport until you fly out of, or take other transport (bus, train) outside of the EU again . . .

CanPete... I have no idea. I would just hate for my Camino to be interrupted over this. It means too much to me, and I must do it during the time I had planned.

 

[AnticoUomo]

CanPete... I have no idea. I would just hate for my Camino to be interrupted over this. It means too much to me, and I must do it during the time I had planned.

That's interesting. Hmmm... something to think about. Thanks man.

 

[mspath]

Since you have an American passport read this Schengen FAQ sheet from the US Embassy regarding travel within the Schengen states.

MM

 

[indyinmaine]

Antico!

My advice was incorrect! It's 90 days within any 180 day period even for the US.
Do you have an "entrance" stamp on your passport? If you do, that's Day 1.
Having said that here's some added information. I'm not sure how logistically legal he is. http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/how-to-legally-stay-in-europe-for-more-than-90-days/
Beyond that the best way is to contact the Spanish embassy because that's where you'll be when it expires, but realize they can be VERY SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alexwalker]

Antico, you will have no problems crossing borders inside the EU. Seldom/never is there a passport control when traveling on land (bus/train). By air, it is another matter, due to severe security measures in airports.

Your problem is that you have a passport with a visa glued inside. As you most likely have experienced, all hotels ask for your passport when checking in. Some even keep it for control/checking with the police. These may cause you trouble. Also, quite a few albergues ask for passports. And finally, when you leave for home, the airport check-in will control your passport. On any of these occations you risk ending up in trouble, given meeting "the right" people. I advice you to go legal on these matters, as others have suggested. Perhaps a solution is, as another suggested, to go to Switzerland ASAP (get stamps), and stay there until you start your Camino?

I hope it will sort out for you,
Buen Camino!

 

[dougfitz]

Hi, and thanks! I am Italian-American and from the U.S.A. Okay, so if I leave the E.U. just for a short while I may be able to reenter and start the clock all over again?

My understanding of the Schengen rules are that you will be allowed 90 days in 180. If this is applied in your case, you would not be able to re-enter the Schengen zone after you had left it after 90 days until a further 90 days had passed.

My experience is that if you are not travelling on an EU passport, if you arrive as an international passenger at an airport, you will be checked. What I cannot tell you is whether a flight from within the Schengen zone is treated as a domestic flight, and passengers not subject to immigration checks. You will still have to face passport checks when returning home, when you would face the prospect of being treated as having illegally overstayed your visa. That is, of course, your choice!

 

[alexwalker]

What I cannot tell you is whether a flight from within the Schengen zone is treated as a domestic flight, and passengers not subject to immigration checks.

When crossing borders by plane, even within EU, a passport is required for identification. That is, a flight from Italy to France/Spain, etc. is viewed as an international flight, controlwise.

 

[AnticoUomo]

Since you have an American passport read this Schengen FAQ sheet from the US Embassy regarding travel within the Schengen states.

MM

Antico!

My advice was incorrect! It's 90 days within any 180 day period even for the US.
Do you have an "entrance" stamp on your passport? If you do, that's Day 1.
Having said that here's some added information. I'm not sure how logistically legal he is. http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/how-to-legally-stay-in-europe-for-more-than-90-days/
Beyond that the best way is to contact the Spanish embassy because that's where you'll be when it expires, but realize they can be VERY SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you. I will check out your link.

 

[CanPete]

Here is the 'Schengen info' for Canadians :

'http://visaservicescanada.ca/countries/schengen.php'

I wasn't aware these requirements are different for US citizens;
Likely due to taking a 'reciprocal' position of the UE countries visa requirements for travel to the US ?

 

[jirit]

If you with a American passport then you can only stay in the Schengen region (this includes Italy, France and Spain and a host of other countries ) for a maximum of 90 days.

Since you arrived in the region effective January 14, then you must leave the region 90 days later. Period. In your case this is actually April 13 ( they count the day of arrival and day of departure).

If you fly from Italy to France earlier than April 13, will be still in the region. Most likely nobody will check your American passport at that time to confirm your validity to stay in the region, since a flight from Italy to France is considered a "domestic" flight within the region. ( in other words you will not pass through the Schengen passport exit controls. )

However, when you leave Spain or France or wherever after walking the camino, say later in May or June, you will be leaving the region. At that time, you will pass through the Schegen passport exit controls, and most likely face the risk of being arrested, fined, deported and banned from re-entering the region for five years.

Neither Spain or Italy can issue a visa for greater than 90 days under the Schengen program.

However if you have a EU passport, say from Italy, then next time travel and enter the region using this passport. Using this passport means are free to stay as long you want.

 

[indyinmaine]

Antico,

Here's the link for what the Spanish call a "long term" visa. One of the options appears to be "research"! http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal...tranjeros/Paginas/VisadosDeLargaDuracion.aspx

 

[alexwalker]

When you leave Italy to fly to France you will be still in the region. Most likely nobody will check your American passport at that time to confirm your validity to stay in the region, since a flight from Italy to France is considered a "domestic" flight within the region. ( in other words you will not pass through the Schengen passport exit controls. )

When I go to/from Norway to another country inside Schengen, I am always asked for my passport, even if I am inside Schengen, since I am crossing a country border (only in airports, that is).

Authorities can make real trouble for you, given you meet "the right" person. I remember I was going into San Francisco one year: I was there the year before, but the passport control hadn't stamped me out when I left. The clerk told me: "I cannot let you into the US; according to your passport you never left here, and you are considered an illegal alien (!), and should be detained here until forced return!" Boy, it took a LOT of talk to get out of that one! Don't take easily on this one...

 

[indyinmaine]

Antic0,
One final word: When you apply for a visa you will have an interview. When you go to the interview, make it abundantly clear that 1) you have enough money to support yourself, 2) you are not looking for a job and will not apply for one, and 3) I think stress the importance of your Camino as the reason why you need to stay longer. The Spanish are very proud of it. All the above may not work but it's worth a try. My apologies for the false hope I initially gave you. That came from pre-Schengen years.

 

[amorfati1]

The U.S.A.

Overstaying a visa in any country is a gamble - but you might 'luck out' - here's my 'out of the box' thought/idea:

• Get a "credential" for your camino in Italy
• Enter SPAIN well prior to your 90 days are over.
• Start walking on your pilgrimage - and get lots of 'sello's (timbre / stamps) of the pilgrim hostels etc.
• In Santiago de Compostela get your 'compostela' - and then leave Spain presto - do not linger or have some beach-time

IF you get quizzed at the border/dougana leaving spain for the USA - you could explain that while in Italy you felt moved - for religious reasons - to undertake this pilgrimage to Santiago di Compostela. (you might even have a spanish speaker/writer compose a courteous letter intended for the border control folks that explains this circumstance) and do present your Compostela that you really did walk the Camino!!

Other consideration is: your flight back out of Europe. Have something booked BEFORE you enter Spain ... that way it 'proves' your intention to leave immediately after you arrived in Santiago.
Again, it's a gamble, and only you can decide how to proceed or intuit how you might fare. Appeal to your Saint of choice might help as well ?!?!
Those things can be done - and you might be surprised (in the positive sense) how paths can open up for you in this matter.
Again - I am not advising anything, just sharing 'out of the box' way of thinking which has for me, opened solutions where before it looked liked there were none.
Tanti saluti e auguri - Spero che tutto andra' bene per te!
C

 

[jirit]

Antico,

Here's the link for what the Spanish call a "long term" visa. One of the options appears to be "research"! http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal...tranjeros/Paginas/VisadosDeLargaDuracion.aspx

The concept of a long term Schengen visa sometimes called a Visa D is really a country specific visa. In other words if you want to stay in the Schengen region beyond 90 days then you must apply to a specific Schengen country like Spain or Italy and obtain a visa for that country under what ever program you believe you would meet the requirements. Spain is more difficult than Italy while France is generally considered easier for both Americans and Canadians.

Wanting to walk the camino and travel around Europe before or after beyond the 90 day period, does not meet any of the requirements for any of the Schengen countries that I am aware of.

Furthermore the process of getting a long term visa for any Schengen country is lengthy, reqiuring police checks, independent medical coverage, sufficient financial resources, documentation, etc. And in the case with most people it must be initiated in your home country like Canada or the USA.

 

[indyinmaine]

Overstaying a visa in any country is a gamble - but you might 'luck out' - here's my 'out of the box' thought/idea:

• Get a "credential" for your camino in Italy
• Enter SPAIN well prior to your 90 days are over.
• Start walking on your pilgrimage - and get lots of 'sello's (timbre / stamps) of the pilgrim hostels etc.
• In Santiago de Compostela get your 'compostela' - and then leave Spain presto - do not linger or have some beach-time

IF you get quizzed at the border/dougana leaving spain for the USA - you could explain that while in Italy you felt moved - for religious reasons - to undertake this pilgrimage to Santiago di Compostela. (you might even have a spanish speaker/writer compose a courteous letter intended for the border control folks that explains this circumstance)
Other consideration is: your flight back out of Europe. Have something booked BEFORE you enter Spain ... that way it 'proves' your intention to leave immediately after you arrived in Santiago.
Again, it's a gamble, and only you can decide how to proceed or intuit how you might fare. Appeal to your Saint of choice might help as well ?!?!
Those things can be done - and you might be surprised (in the positive sense) how paths can open up for you in this matter.
Again - I am not advising anything, just sharing 'out of the box' way of thinking which has for me, opened solutions where before it looked liked there were none.
Tanti saluti e auguri - Spero che tutto andra' bene per te!
C

That might work for 7 -10 days overdue but not entering with only a few days to go.

 

[AnticoUomo]

Antico!

My advice was incorrect! It's 90 days within any 180 day period even for the US.
Do you have an "entrance" stamp on your passport? If you do, that's Day 1.
Having said that here's some added information. I'm not sure how logistically legal he is. http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/how-to-legally-stay-in-europe-for-more-than-90-days/
Beyond that the best way is to contact the Spanish embassy because that's where you'll be when it expires, but realize they can be VERY SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you. I checked and read the link. I will contact the Spanish Embassy tomorrow.

 

[AnticoUomo]

That might work for 7 -10 days overdue but not entering with only a few days to go.

Okay... Thank you for the tips!

 

[AnticoUomo]

The concept of a long term Schengen visa sometimes called a Visa D is really a country specific visa. In other words if you want to stay in the Schengen region beyond 90 days then you must apply to a specific Schengen country like Spain or Italy and obtain a visa for that country under what ever program you believe you would meet the requirements. Spain is more difficult than Italy while France is generally considered easier for both Americans and Canadians.

Wanting to walk camino and travel around Europe before or after beyond the 90 day period, does not meet any of the requirements for any of the Schengen countries that I am aware of.

Furthermore the process of getting a long term visa for any Schengen country is lengthy, reqiuring police checks, independent medical coverage, sufficient financial resources, documentation, etc. And in the case with most people it must be initiated in your home country like Canada or the USA.

Thanks for the info Indy!

 

[AnticoUomo]

When crossing borders by plane, even within EU, a passport is required for identification. That is, a flight from Italy to France/Spain, etc. is viewed as an international flight, controlwise.

Thanks Doug!

 

[AnticoUomo]

Antico, you will have no problems crossing borders inside the EU. Seldom/never is there a passport control when traveling on land (bus/train). By air, it is another matter, due to severe security measures in airports.

Your problem is that you have a passport with a visa glued inside. As you most likely have experienced, all hotels ask for your passport when checking in. Some even keep it for control/checking with the police. These may cause you trouble. Also, quite a few albergues ask for passports. And finally, when you leave for home, the airport check-in will control your passport. On any of these occations you risk ending up in trouble, given meeting "the right" people. I advice you to go legal on these matters, as others have suggested. Perhaps a solution is, as another suggested, to go to Switzerland ASAP (get stamps), and stay there until you start your Camino?

I hope it will sort out for you,
Buen Camino!

Thank Alex| I appreciate the info and tips!

 

[AnticoUomo]

When crossing borders by plane, even within EU, a passport is required for identification. That is, a flight from Italy to France/Spain, etc. is viewed as an international flight, controlwise.

Thanks!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If you are really worried about this, consider my advice and save yourself a lot of bureaucratic headaches:

When you leave Italy, walk across the border into France on a GR hiking trail, or get a ride in a car. Then get a bus or train to the French town nearest the Spanish border. Walk a GR trail, or ride in a car over the border into Spain. (I recommend the Canfranc trail down to Jaca, where you can start the Camino in style.)

I have crossed these borders many times in cars or on foot, and no one has ever asked me for ID. Trains, planes, and buses are another matter.

Hotels make passport copies, but it´s rare for anyone to look at them unless a dangerous criminal is on the loose. As hospitalera I have sometimes looked at passports for name, nation etc., but I have never scrutinized entry dates.

Leaving Spain via airport is not troublesome. It´s coming in that is getting more problematic!
I would NOT get embassies and consulates involved unless an emergency came up. Don´t ask, don´t tell.

 

[alexwalker]

I had similar thoughts, Reb, and in addition: Go silently, on ground, to Switzerland afterwards, and fly back from there But you are on unsafe grounds here, regarding travel insurances f.ex...

 

[CanPete]

If you are really worried about this, consider my advice and save yourself a lot of bureaucratic headaches:

When you leave Italy, walk across the border into France on a GR hiking trail, or get a ride in a car. Then get a bus or train to the French town nearest the Spanish border. Walk a GR trail, or ride in a car over the border into Spain. (I recommend the Canfranc trail down to Jaca, where you can start the Camino in style.)

I have crossed these borders many times in cars or on foot, and no one has ever asked me for ID. Trains, planes, and buses are another matter.

Hotels make passport copies, but it´s rare for anyone to look at them unless a dangerous criminal is on the loose. As hospitalera I have sometimes looked at passports for name, nation etc., but I have never scrutinized entry dates.

Leaving Spain via airport is not troublesome. It´s coming in that is getting more problematic!
I would NOT get embassies and consulates involved unless an emergency came up. Don´t ask, don´t tell.

Agreed fully, let the sleeping dogs lie . . .

 

[Leaningforward]

For other readers who have a US passport, a visa is not required for stays less than 90 days, provided the purpose of travel is tourism. I visa may be required for stays that will exceed 90 days or if the visit is for a purpose other than tourism; for example, educational or religious worker reasons.

In other words, pilgrims from the US do not need a visa to enter Europe to walk the Camino Frances or other routes that start in Spain or Portugal (or possibly other routes depending on their length and duration).

 

[indyinmaine]

It is one thing to give "silent" assent to something which one knows is either illegal or marginally legal. I think everyone on this Forum needs to give serious thought if they post something which could be considered "abetting".

 

[marjm007]

If we leave the states for more than30 days do we need to inform anyone?

 

[billmclaughlin]

I hope we find out how this story ends. I think the original poster had a good plan. Travel to France well before hitting the 90-day limit. Avoid passport checks by crossing the Pyrenees on foot as we all do.

He may or may not have got these additional points: Avoid hotels that actually take your passport. Be prepared to be banned for 5 years from the Schengen Zone upon departure.

Post camino it could be an adventure. The moment he encounters authorities the game is over. Flying home direct from Madrid means just some delays and frowns at the airport. Trying to get somewhere else to fly home (Italy?) won't be easy without a passport check en route.

I once saw a very glum fellow taken off a bus at the Spanish-French border because his papers weren't in order. Did they give him a ride straight to the nearest airport?

 

[quietwun]

My take is just wondering how this would affect your Camino.

Clearly it is illegal unless you find some sort of extension, but there also seems to be a good chance no one will notice or maybe even care. Should they "catch" you, the range of possible consequences might not be a deterrent if you REALLY want to walk NOW. Take your chance and deal with what happens?

OTOH, if it would always be in the back of your mind that given the wrong/ right circumstances there could be a problem.....is it going to have a significant negative effect on your walk?

I have been in a situation where I had to transit through a country that I knew could give me problems, and I didn't totally relax until I was through there.

Only you can decide the benefit/risk.

 

[pudgypilgrim]

While it's easy to give advice like "stay and just keep a low profile" if you're not the person in question and not subject to anything that could happen as a result, I do think this info from the US Bureau of Consular Affairs is also worth considering:

In recent years, an increased number of U.S. citizens have been refused entry because they failed to comply with and/or satisfy Spanish immigration laws, including because they overstayed on previous visits to Spain or other Schengen countries.

The Spanish government scrutinizes visitors who overstay their visas or their visa-free entry per the Schengen Agreement. Immediate deportation after spending a number of days in detention is not uncommon. You should leave Spain promptly at the end of the 90-day visa-free travel period, or at the end of the time stated on your visa.

I feel for you--I wanted to walk from Paris to Santiago in one go, but it's simply not possible (unless I could leap tall buildings in a single bound and get there in 90 days), and the visa options for US citizens are just about nil, unless you want a residence visa.

EDIT Oops, forgot source link:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/spain-and-andorra.html

Oh, and I talked to the Spanish Consulate in Miami about options--no dice. Maybe being there would give you more leverage, but getting the necessary documents might be difficult.

Good luck, and if you figure out a way around it, lots of us would love to know what you come up with!

 

[billmclaughlin]

And since it's still October 16 for me for a few more minutes, I'll note that today is Open Borders Day.

http://openborders.info/blog/welcome-to-open-borders

 

[Kitsambler]

Switzerland is part of the Schengen area. Ireland and the UK are not. Quoting from the Wikipedia article "Visa policies in the European Union" here:
"
Twenty-two European Union member states are part of the Schengen Area and have a uniform visa policy. In addition, four countries outside the European Union - Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland - adopt the same uniform visa policy as they are also part of the Schengen Area.

Four EU member states — Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania — are not yet part of the Schengen Area, but nonetheless have a visa policy that is based on the Schengen acquis.

Two EU member states — Ireland and the United Kingdom — are not part of the Schengen Area, instead operating a travel zone known as the Common Travel Area. The two countries each operate separate visa policies which are different from that of the Schengen Area."

 

[NicoZ]

When I go to/from Norway to another country inside Schengen, I am always asked for my passport, even if I am inside Schengen, since I am crossing a country border (only in airports, that is).

EU citizens need valid ID. Citizens from countires like Italy with ID cards usually use that. The UK is the only place I use my passport. Legally the ID card is fine but they have such long lines and add a longer wait for those on ID cards.

To the OP there should be a religious visa class. That's the only one you might be able to get.

I agree in general Americans are ignored but there is no reason to believe that always happens.

 

[Silverton]

I have had passport-checks before flight departures at Spanish and Italian airports recently, if that has any relevance to this complicated question.
(Ireland participates in some Schengen matters--with 'opt-outs'; we are sometimes copycats of our nearest neighbour, although declaring ourselves staunch Europeans.)
Take care, Antico, and good wishes.
(Happy St Patrick's Day, everyone. I typed a sentence about George and Andrew, but have deleted it--not to initiate a political thread.)

 

[AnticoUomo]

If you are really worried about this, consider my advice and save yourself a lot of bureaucratic headaches:

When you leave Italy, walk across the border into France on a GR hiking trail, or get a ride in a car. Then get a bus or train to the French town nearest the Spanish border. Walk a GR trail, or ride in a car over the border into Spain. (I recommend the Canfranc trail down to Jaca, where you can start the Camino in style.)

I have crossed these borders many times in cars or on foot, and no one has ever asked me for ID. Trains, planes, and buses are another matter.

Hotels make passport copies, but it´s rare for anyone to look at them unless a dangerous criminal is on the loose. As hospitalera I have sometimes looked at passports for name, nation etc., but I have never scrutinized entry dates.

Leaving Spain via airport is not troublesome. It´s coming in that is getting more problematic!
I would NOT get embassies and consulates involved unless an emergency came up. Don´t ask, don´t tell.

Rebekah... Thank you for your advice and your encouragement. This is what I suspected (or at least hoped), and this is the strategy I am now leaning toward using. My walk is purely spiritual (the death of one of my children) and it is imperative that I leave now instead of waiting until I can reenter the EU after another 90 day wait in the U.S. I do believe that God is with me on this, so I shall simply have faith that all will be well. I am an honest and very likable person and do not cause trouble, so I doubt if anybody will want to give me a hard time. Once I am finished with my Camino, I will share my experience. Thank you again...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is one thing to give "silent" assent to something which one knows is either illegal or marginally legal. I think everyone on this Forum needs to give serious thought if they post something which could be considered "abetting".

There is no predictability of the official response to violating the Schengen visa requirements. Penalties may be draconian, or you may get away with it. I guess I don't understand an unwillingness to abide by the visa terms. On the surface it seems self-indulgent and immature to me. In light of the false passports in Indonesia recently, there may be a sudden enforcement of currently ignored law. Getting caught up in that might be more than interesting. Can someone offer a reason to ignore the express wishes of the Schengen Treaty countries? Just because one might get away with it?

 

[Leaningforward]

So you know what you may be walking into, literally, before you cross a bright line:

I was asked for and presented my passport at each albergue and hotel I stayed along the Camino Frances last month and earlier this month -- except for one donativo.

Hotels and albergues equipped with copy machines made a copy; other albergues simply logged information such as name and number.

One of the most important lessons I learned on my camino is that responsibilities, worries, and other emotional "baggage" are burdens like the physical property we carry on our backs, and we (most of us at least) have a limit for the amount of physical and emotional (and spiritual) baggage we can carry at anyone one time, in any one place -- without sacrificing something of equal of greater importance. I suppose concern or worry about being found out and found by authorities would be a special burden to carry.

I cannot imagine the grief you feel -- you having lost a child. If you decide under your various circumstances to proceed, then I wish you luck and Godspeed.

 

[Deleted member 22638]

I am very sorry for your loss.

Last spring on the CF it was normal to see the occasional Spanish police car early in the morning, especially on the Meseta . I took this to be a comforting check to see if there were any pilgrims in difficulty.

On one occasion having recently left an Alberque ( in Ledigos I think) I , and all pilgrims on the road, had to show our passports. We speculated that the police were checking up to see that Albergues were correctly taking copies of passport details as they appear obliged to do.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, AnticoUomo, First I want to send my sympathies to you as well, the death of a child must be an unbearable tragedy. I hope that walking the Camino will bring you some comfort and strength.

In terms of your passport situation, do you not have a return plane ticket?

This is one of those situations in which the rules and the reality MAY differ. First of all, no police officer in Spain and no hospitalero in Spain will be looking to see the dates on your passport. That's an immigration question, and it's the immigration officials at the airports, maybe on trains sometimes, etc, who will be the ones with the authority to question you and who know the visa rules. The others are just using it for ID.

I don't think anyone is trying to help you commit a crime, but rather just describe the risks you will be taking. You know what the law says, and you will be violating it by staying in the EU for more than 90 days.

My son once stayed for a year in Spain without a visa. He even left Spain during the year period for a week trip home to the US. At the airport going out, the immigration official asked him about why he didn't have a visa and told him it could cause him problems, but that official didn't cause him any problems (you have to wonder whom the immigrations official was referring to if not himself!) and a week later my son returned to Spain and finished out the year. Again no problems, and this time no problems at the exit. This wasn't a smart thing to do, he could have easily gotten a visa since he was studying, but being a stupid young male he didn't. We didn't know about it at the time and assumed he had gotten all the visas through his university program but he hadn't. I certainly don't recommend it, don't condone it, but that was his experience. As falcon says, though, this lax attitude may change at any moment (his experience was about 4 years ago).

As others have said, your main risk is when you leave the country. I know stories of people who have had problems at the exit, they weren't as lucky as my son. If you transfer at London, you should be prepared for a real problem. If you are going straight back to the US without a European transfer, it will depend on the attitude of the immigration official who looks at your passport as you leave Spain. In hindsight, it's clear what you should have done, but you didn't do it and now the rest is up to you since you're already there. Like leaningforward says, for me it would be a huge cause of anxiety, but since you have no way to get a visa to authorize an extension, I guess you'll have to decide how risk averse you are and go from there. Being banned from the EU for five years would be a horrible thing for me, maybe not for you. There is no good decision here, I suppose that's the real kicker. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[lynnejohn]

There is some good factual information here for you, and some interesting opinions. So I'll give mine:
I would always err on the side of the law. Even if the risk of "getting caught" is infinitesimal, the worry that I was breaking the law (and the consequences) would not allow me to enjoy my camino. It just would not be worth it to me, so I would endure the bureaucracy and do what's required. That's MHO.

My deepest sympathies on the loss of your child. I hope things work out for you.

 

[AnticoUomo]

Hi, AnticoUomo, First I want to send my sympathies to you as well, the death of a child must be an unbearable tragedy. I hope that walking the Camino will bring you some comfort and strength.

In terms of your passport situation, do you not have a return plane ticket?

This is one of those situations in which the rules and the reality MAY differ. First of all, no police officer in Spain and no hospitalero in Spain will be looking to see the dates on your passport. That's an immigration question, and it's the immigration officials at the airports, maybe on trains sometimes, etc, who will be the ones with the authority to question you and who know the visa rules. The others are just using it for ID.

I don't think anyone is trying to help you commit a crime, but rather just describe the risks you will be taking. You know what the law says, and you will be violating it by staying in the EU for more than 90 days.

My son once stayed for a year in Spain without a visa. He even left Spain during the year period for a week trip home to the US. At the airport going out, the immigration official asked him about why he didn't have a visa and told him it could cause him problems, but that official didn't cause him any problems (you have to wonder whom the immigrations official was referring to if not himself!) and a week later my son returned to Spain and finished out the year. Again no problems, and this time no problems at the exit. This wasn't a smart thing to do, he could have easily gotten a visa since he was studying, but being a stupid young male he didn't. We didn't know about it at the time and assumed he had gotten all the visas through his university program but he hadn't. I certainly don't recommend it, don't condone it, but that was his experience. As falcon says, though, this lax attitude may change at any moment (his experience was about 4 years ago).

As others have said, your main risk is when you leave the country. I know stories of people who have had problems at the exit, they weren't as lucky as my son. If you transfer at London, you should be prepared for a real problem. If you are going straight back to the US without a European transfer, it will depend on the attitude of the immigration official who looks at your passport as you leave Spain. In hindsight, it's clear what you should have done, but you didn't do it and now the rest is up to you since you're already there. Like leaningforward says, for me it would be a huge cause of anxiety, but since you have no way to get a visa to authorize an extension, I guess you'll have to decide how risk averse you are and go from there. Being banned from the EU for five years would be a horrible thing for me, maybe not for you. There is no good decision here, I suppose that's the real kicker. Buen camino, Laurie

Laurie... Thanks. And thank you to all of the others if I do not have the time to thank each of you individually. I do appreciate everybody's input and will make a decision between now and the time my 90 days has expired. I am not flagrant violater of the law, but sometimes the spirit of the law should rise above the letter of the law, and of that I am quite certain. I too would hate to be banned from the EU for five years, but if that is to be the decision of 'the powers to be', then so be it. I am glad your son was able to slide in and out of Spain without a problem, but I am also keenly aware that I may not be so fortunate. However, I will not allow fear to control me or to dampen my pilgrimage. Not only my mind but my heart, my spirit, and my soul are also set on doing this Camino in one fell swoop, and in the memory of my son who believed that I could do anything.

 

[CaminoKris2013]

You are the one that ultimately needs to make this decision. I, personally, would opt on the side of caution and plan on doing the Camino at another visit. The Camino isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Al the optimist]

Sorry to hear about your son. If you proceed, then I wish for things to work out.
As a side issue for your consideration. I walked last year in memory of my still born grandson. I took two credentials, one in my name and one in his, getting them both stamped. At the Pilgrim's office I got the Compostela (which is issued in your name with your passport and your credential to get it) endorsed as "Vicanie Pro: Jakob Watson" (on behalf of). This is the normal procedure for getting a Compostela for someone who you have walked on behalf of. The extra credential that I had was not for part of the Compostela process but just as an added reminder that we had completed the journey together. The Credential and Compostela were warmly received by his Mother and Father.

 

[natefaith]

Yes, so sorry to hear about your son. What a huge loss - I can't even imagine.

One other thing you could consider would be walking less of the Camino and still leaving by April 13 (I think that's when your 90 days expire?). For example, León to Santiago is about 14 days, or Burgos to Santiago is about 3 weeks. Both León and Burgos are easy to get to with public transportation. Or, you could still start in SJPP and then at some point take a bus or train to a point further along in the trail. You probably know that in order to receive a Compostela at the end you do need to actually walk the last 100km (you can't take a bus/ train during any of the Sarria - Santiago days), but before that taking some form of transportation does not affect your Compostela.

The nice thing is that you've realized the problem almost a full month in advance of the expiration, and you have some options before you. Take care - wishing you all the best as you think through everything and decide.

 

[La Barre]

Antico, I had a similar situation in 2010. I had booked my return flight exceeding 90 days. The Spanish Consulate in Houston advised me to go to a police station and get some documentation from them. I tried doing that in Madrid but they referred me to the immigration office. They issued me an official( stamped ) letter to present upon exit at the airport. It is important that you have a return flight. I did have to state why I was overstaying and I mentioned that because I was doing the Camino I did not know how long it would take me. This was done on a form that they will provide. It may be easier if you go to a police station in a small town on the Camino BEFORE your 90 days are up.

 

[basquelady]

When we left Santiago by air Oct 2013, the official scrutinised our UK passports for so long that we were becoming anxious; you cannot predict how meticulously an official will carry out his duties!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

One story:

Busted.

So I was detained. I was provided a lawyer, and I was interviewed. I was held in airport jail for 24 hours, all of my belongings locked up. I was escorted onto the next returning flight to D.C. that following morning by two very kind police officers, who told me I could return, in 9 months.

Only 9 months, I was lucky! They could have banned me for much longer, for years!

Yes, it was very stupid of me to overstay a tourist visa that I knew was illegal. Should I have followed the laws of the Schengen area? Yes, absolutely. But the reason for writing this article is for those of you trying to find out where the truth in all the conflicting information online is. It doesn't matter how "strict" you hear one country is over another. The truth is, they are enforcing this law everywhere. Will you still get away with it? Yes. I am sure. Sometimes. (When I called the US Embassy from airport jail, they told me that Spain had only started detaining Americans in the past two months).

 

[alexwalker]

Here is the whole article which Falcon quotes, dated in 2011. I would think it is fair to assume that controls are even tougher today, given f.ex. the recent incident in Malaysia...

http://jenniferbrooke.hubpages.com/hub/Yankees-need-apply

 

[VictoriaThomas]

I left with my son May 10, 2013. Much to my surprised he continued walking ALL of the routes in Spain along with the one starting in Paris. Here's the part I don't understand, he didn't have a visa, yes he had his US passport. In my contact with him I kept Telling him he was going to have problems when he re-enters the USA being gone for TEN MONTHS. Well again, much to my surprise, actually shock, he returned 2 weeks ago with NO problems at all entering.
I don't understand.

 

[lynnejohn]

The answer is, it's hit and miss. You roll the dice and you take your chance when you knowingly break/ignore the law. Will you present your passport at the airport the same week there's been an incident involving undocumented foreigners from outside Schengen? Or will you arrive when the immigration officer is in a great mood because he got a raise?
Do you feel lucky today?

 

[AJ]

There seems to be a lot of support for the proposition that it is OK for a person to break the law if the law happens to be inconvenient. Anarchy lives...on the Camino!!

 

[alexwalker]

There seems to be a lot of support for the proposition that it is OK for a person to break the law if the law happens to be inconvenient. Anarchy lives...on the Camino!!

I am not so sure: Most answers here advice against being anarchistic on this issue. One more thing to remember: The authorities in Spain, Greece and Italy are definetly the toughest in the Schengen area of Europe. They are really tough on law and order. And I like it. I feel safe when I see the Policia on a road in Spain. I once talked to them, right on the Camino: Very polite guys, friendly, but very determined on fools.

 

[indyrem]

If you are really worried about this, consider my advice and save yourself a lot of bureaucratic headaches:

When you leave Italy, walk across the border into France on a GR hiking trail, or get a ride in a car. Then get a bus or train to the French town nearest the Spanish border. Walk a GR trail, or ride in a car over the border into Spain. (I recommend the Canfranc trail down to Jaca, where you can start the Camino in style.)

I have crossed these borders many times in cars or on foot, and no one has ever asked me for ID. Trains, planes, and buses are another matter.

Hotels make passport copies, but it´s rare for anyone to look at them unless a dangerous criminal is on the loose. As hospitalera I have sometimes looked at passports for name, nation etc., but I have never scrutinized entry dates.

Leaving Spain via airport is not troublesome. It´s coming in that is getting more problematic!
I would NOT get embassies and consulates involved unless an emergency came up. Don´t ask, don´t tell.

Although I was in Spain for my Camino Frances for 32 days, I stayed for 10 more days to visit Fatima & Lourdes. Local buses never asked for my U.S. passport but the bus to Portugal asked for it and scrutinized it too. Took the train to Lourdes then to Paris and they asked & scrutinized my passport also. Took the bus from Paris to Madrid for my flight back home and again my passport was checked thoroughly by an inspector on the bus. When I was in Madrid I was victimized by pickpockets. They got my passport, credit card, insurance card & drivers license and all my Euros and dollars. Luckily my iPhone was in the bottom of my cross body purse so I was able to contact the American embassy in Madrid. They were knowledgeable, efficient & very helpful. They advised me to get to the embassy right away & inspite of the very long line of people waiting to get in I was allowed to get in-issued me a temporary passport & a letter to the airline requesting that I be allowed to board the plane with my temporary passport. They also called my bank in the U.S. to report my stolen credit card, called my family back home to inform of my situation & facilitated the bank transfer from them so I can have money to use . My point is: although what happened to me can be classified as an emergency I think our embassy can answer your questions & help or at least make suggestions on how you can go on with your Camino without worrying about the legalities

 

[indyrem]

So please don't take any risks-you don't want to be "black listed"-for all you know ,like most of us who would like to come back & walk the Camino again -I'm sure you will too. Buen Camino.