Jaime Carrollo
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances 2022
Norte/Primitivo 2023
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Yes, quite obviously! Everyone knows that poles are for barbers and strippers while staffs are used by old wizards casting spells or friars fighting in the forest! (And let me tell you, I do NOT want to confuse those groups…again…)I would suggest poles and staffs have two very different purposes.
I’m with Robo on this; but I’m happy to assume that it’s my lack of understanding or that the technique and function are just very different from using poles.I would suggest poles and staffs have two very different purposes.
But am no expert.
I look forward to hearing from Staff users.....
What are the main benefits?
For me I would not walk without two poles.
They propel me forward, whilst at the same time 'lifting' weight off my knees.
But they do need to be used quite aggressively, by putting quite a weight through the poles.
Using kitchen scales I estimate the downward pressure I apply between 10-15 kgs.
A staff on the other hand, though I have not used one, would appear to be more for balance?
Whilst it does have a loop, the staff is generally longer, and I imagine not easy to apply downward pressure to. But for balance, I'm sure they are useful.
Though heavier?
My old poles are 300gms for the pair.
I remember reading about a British pole-vaulter in the 1950s who had to travel to training on the bus. He used to go up to the top deck, open a window and have his wife pass his pole up to him. He held it along the side of the bus. I don’t recall how he reversed the process.I think a non-foldable hiking staff is not easily gotten onto a plane as carry-on, unless it is checked in as a luggage, which may incur additional cost.
I prefer a good solid walking staff. I understand that Norte and primitivo have some challenging climbs and drops so a good staff will steady your walking to prevent a fall. My experiences have all been on the Camino Frances. The staff was needed dropping down into ronces, dropping from alto Del padrón, dropping into Molinaseca and then the climb to O’Cebreiro. These were the most challenging sections for me. Maybe another one entering portomarin via the tough original path but you do have an option to bypass and simply follow the paved road, not as interesting but way safer.I do not like using hiking poles. I have a nice pair and I have adjusted the straps and lengths and use them properly on uphill, downhill and level ground but still prefer to go without. However, as I get ready for Norte and Primitivo, I am considering a walking staff. So a question to pole-averse staff users: any recommendations?
Wonderful story!I am not totally unfamiliar with using a staff. Just before entering Villafranca del Bierzo, I noticed what appeared to be a long stick on the side of the trail. As I walked past, I realized that it had been placed there for me. I went back to the ungainly branch, placed my hand around one end and pulled it up from the ground, somehow understanding that this was to be my Excalibur, a gift from the Camino. I knocked the thorny bits off with a stone, gave it the name Tizona and walked into town. The next morning, as I prepared to leave my lodging, Tizona leapt into my hand, and off I went, knowing at that moment I would take the Dragonte.
It was still dark as I hiked up the hill to Dragonte and Tizona was a reassuring guardian as I walked past valleys and glens where dark shadows followed me. Later that morning as I descended into Moral de Valcarce, several large dogs surrounded me, baring their teeth and growling. Two dogs were behind me, a third, in front, distracted me. I realized this was how dogs and wolves hunt their prey. I raised Tizona, holding her vertically as she cast her spell upon the dogs, who backed off as though heeding their master. Departing the hamlet I noticed another, smaller dog, who had watched but not joined in the attack. It scampered up to me and I tried to shoo him away. He would not leave me and after about a kilometer, with the dog apparently expecting an adventure with me, a farmer on a tractor approached. “That dog is not yours!” cried the farmer. “I know,” I protested, “but I can’t get rid of him!” We devised a plan: I struck the ground in front of the dog scaring him away, to the front of the tractor. The farmer took over, using the tractor to herd the dog back to its home, shouting “Venga! Venga!” As I watched them disappear down the rutted road, I realized that I had broken Tizona in half when I struck the ground. I kept the shortened staff until I exited the Dragonte trail and somewhere beyond Herrería, I placed her on the side of the path, pointing the way to Santiago.
Rather than being walking pole averse, I am an aficionado, and even though I used a wooden walking staff for many years, and still have it, I don't think I would be taking it on the Camino. That said, if you are thinking of using one, there are some things that I wanted in a staff:I am considering a walking staff. So a question to pole-averse staff users: any recommendations?
Perhaps due to a personal lack of motor skills, the sticks proved awkward for me. I experimented over multiple Caminos. Risk of tangling my legs with my usual walking cadence out-weighed any potential reward. My walking style is leaning into a long stride which runs about 0.75 meters on the flat.
B
IF the straps are worn correctly, the poles should fall away from your hands and leave them free for photography, nose-picking or any other manual task you might contemplate.5) Easy to switch hands or hold one between your legs to take pictures of beautiful places in nature, architecture, villages...or to take a drink from your water bottle.
I agree! I like the freedom and rhythm of walking, unencumbered by a wooden staff or a pole. But I always use one pole when the terrain is rocky and/or steep to keep my balance.I carried one collapsible hiking pole. Advantages are
1) Good for balance when stepping down large uneven steps or steep descents. Good for balance crossing streams.
2) Can be collapsed when not needed for walking, either attach to pack or carry like a 'swagger stick'
3) Helpful if one knee or foot has a temporary injury.
4) Easy to transport or take into cafes, etc
IF the straps are worn correctly, the poles should fall away from your hands and leave them free for photography, nose-picking or any other manual task you might contemplate.
I have given this topic as much thought as I am able at the moment, might be back later if inspiration kicks in.Totally get that......
Indeed they feel very awkward at first!
It takes a bit of practice.
But once it all 'clicks' into place it becomes very natural, like swinging your arms whilst walking.
I walked around a local sports field practicing with them.
Trailing them behind me.
then holding them loosely.
then swinging my arms with them dragging.
then 'planting' them with each step.
After an hour or two it clicked.
Sadly I think a lot of people give up on them, or try them with a poor technique, and see no benefit.
The only time I'm not using mine is in towns and villages where I don't want to create a tripping hazard for others. Otherwise, every step of the way. They are like my extra 2 legs
I too lean into the walk a bit.
And pushing back on the poles really helps me/boosts me, moving forwards.
But hey, we're all different........
Just not convinced of the mechanics of staff usage and the benefit.
All seems a bit lopsided. using only one.
Good for balance maybe....... and 'looking' like a Pilgrim
I know, but I don't like them dangling.IF the straps are worn correctly, the poles should fall away from your hands and leave them free for photography, nose-picking or any other manual task you might contemplate.
To each his ownI know, but I don't like them dangling.
the benefits of poles
2 poles in my opinion are essential. A staff is dysfunctional.
- Reduction of load on joints such as knees and ankles.
- Improved walking mechanics and posture helping reduce back pain.
- Improved forward momentum due to propulsion effect. (up and forward).
- Better balance on uneven terrain.
Annie, what about walking through thick mud with big puddles? I'm always thankful to use oneThose are the only 3 places I've ever felt I need poles.
This is what ChatGPT says:- someone might ask ChatGPT or other?
Whereas in my experience (I've used both on Camino, admittedly poles for longer) staffs are used by people who want to look more like medieval pilgrims and less like modern hikers; while poles are used by people who want to effectively protect their knees.Yes, quite obviously! Everyone knows that poles are for barbers and strippers while staffs are used by old wizards casting spells or friars fighting in the forest! (And let me tell you, I do NOT want to confuse those groups…again…)
Well... I don't walk through thick mud with big puddles. lol!Annie, what about walking through thick mud with big puddles? I'm always thankful to use onehiking pole or a staff. I know I would probably fall into a mud bath if I didn't use one for balance walking through it.
staffs are used by people who want to look more like medieval pilgrims and less like modern hikers;
Pacer poles are a small family business just up the road from me and they have really struggled with supply for the past couple of years.I like the grip on the pacerpoles and checked out their website. Now if I can just get them to send me a pair, I will trial them out on the Norte.
Not really.Whereas in my experience (I've used both on Camino, admittedly poles for longer) staffs are used by people who want to look more like medieval pilgrims and less like modern hikers; while poles are used by people who want to effectively protect their knees.
[I was very pole-averse, and when my knees got shot, I reluctantly went with a staff, still trying to avoid poles, only to find it wasn't enough to let me continue while poles were.]
I have pacer poles.Pacer poles are a small family business just up the road from me and they have really struggled with supply for the past couple of years.
Finally they have secured a supply of the top sections only (which contain their unique grip) but which you’ll have to ‘mate’ with lower sections of your choice from other poles. I believe they have a fairly long list of back-orders; so if you need them soon you had better get your order in.
There are no resellers; they only supply direct and existing users rarely part with theirs so there’s no real second-hand market.
Me, too.I prefer to have one hand free.
Keeping these for when I'm 95 and walking the Camino -- just in case.
You just convinced me to get a staff. I've always wanted to be a wizard.Yes, quite obviously! Everyone knows that poles are for barbers and strippers while staffs are used by old wizards casting spells or friars fighting in the forest! (And let me tell you, I do NOT want to confuse those groups…again…)
Seriously, though, a staff can be a bit heavy and unwieldy when you DON’T want to have it in use while poles usually collapse down and can be stored. I’ve seen a couple of handmade ones on the Camino which were very neat in design and carving, but rarely in use.
Robo, I have a question. I occasionally get bad cases of tendonitis in my arm (Good ol Tennis Elbow) the amount of pressure you mentioned to push yourself up the hill makes me worry that it might cause me some issues. What do you think? Can you "feel it" in your forearms when using them?Totally get that......
Indeed they feel very awkward at first!
It takes a bit of practice.
But once it all 'clicks' into place it becomes very natural, like swinging your arms whilst walking.
I walked around a local sports field practicing with them.
Trailing them behind me.
then holding them loosely.
then swinging my arms with them dragging.
then 'planting' them with each step.
After an hour or two it clicked.
Sadly I think a lot of people give up on them, or try them with a poor technique, and see no benefit.
The only time I'm not using mine is in towns and villages where I don't want to create a tripping hazard for others. Otherwise, every step of the way. They are like my extra 2 legs
I too lean into the walk a bit.
And pushing back on the poles really helps me/boosts me, moving forwards.
But hey, we're all different........
Just not convinced of the mechanics of staff usage and the benefit.
All seems a bit lopsided. using only one.
Good for balance maybe....... and 'looking' like a Pilgrim
Regarding the weight that people putting on their poles, I think that varies a lot. I am not convinced that using them to bear a lot of weight is necessary or helpful unless you have particular knee problems (which @Robo has).the amount of pressure you mentioned to push yourself up the hill makes me worry
I have never understood the fascination with Pacer poles. When I look at the construction of the grip, it has one fixed angle, from which I conclude that there is only one particular length and pole angle where the wrist is in its natural rest position. At any other pole position, the wrist will move away from that rest position, and need to bend to a certain extent. If you look at the videos on the Pacer pole site carefully, you will see that the demonstrator is cocking their wrist.It is likely that the grip on the Pacer Poles makes using their pole a delight to use all the time:
- uphill
- downhill
- difficult terrain
- long flat sections
- late in the day when you are tired
ChatGPT is interesting with access to vast amount of data, however I suggest being cautious in thinking it is very thorough.but "it" was very thorough in answering.
How sad! This tool, ChatGPT, has successfully created a summary of some selection of both the good and the bad information available on the internet about staff and poles without any explanation for its 'reasoning' nor any guarantee about its completeness. At least with other forum members, it is possible to establish both of these qualities - completeness and correctness - even where there are elements like personal preferences at play.This is what ChatGPT says:
Advantages of using a staff:
Disadvantages of using a staff:
- Provides support for balance and stability.
- Eases pressure on joints, particularly knees.
- Can be used to probe for obstacles or check depth of water.
- Offers protection against animals or attackers.
Advantages of using poles:
- Adds extra weight to carry.
- May get caught in underbrush or narrow passages.
- Can be cumbersome to carry and use in some terrain.
Disadvantages of using poles:
- Provides support for balance and stability.
- Eases pressure on joints, particularly knees.
- Can be used to probe for obstacles or check depth of water.
- Can increase speed and efficiency on flat or downhill terrain.
- Can help in carrying weight by distributing it to the arms.
Ultimately, the choice between a staff or poles will depend on personal preference, the type of terrain being traversed, and the individual's physical abilities.
- Adds extra weight to carry.
- May get caught in underbrush or narrow passages.
- Requires coordination and technique to use effectively.
- Not as versatile as a staff for protection or as a tool.
It is interesting how we all have our preferences. I have enjoyed using them for a few thousand kms. And will be using an even better improved pair next walk.I have only used Pacer poles for a very short time over a very short distance on a couple of different occasions in Spain and here at home.
When I was using a staff, I did manage to travel with it as cabin baggage back and forth between the UK and Australia twice, and didn't need to dress up as either a bishop or a shepherd on any of the three flights involved. There were some strange looks, but never any more than that.I don’t suppose there’s much chance that “I needs it fer me flock” will get a staff through airport security even if you were in full Bishop regalia
If you buy a staff, be sure it is more than the “souvenir” quality I noticed at many shops. Check for a good grip and something better than the loosely fitting cap on the end. Also, it should have some magic power.This has been a really interesting discussion and am I now thinking about a staff rather than poles for my first Camino. I am planning to buy whatever I will use in Pamplona so it might just come down to what feels right when I get there.
Not really, it's just that using a hiking staff is more difficult to learn properly.Two poles are far more effective than a staff - the staff has romantic quality I suppose,linked to ancient images of Pelegrinos,but in terms of practicality it doesn’ one close,really.
First of all, I'm replying to you on this thread about poles and staffs, although the AI topic doesn't fit in here.@pepi, I would be rather more interested in your views on this, or any other, topic rather than being fed some mindless pap from what appears to be a pretty immature AI bot.
@pepi, I have already suggested the criteria I would use to judge when ChatGPT. There were three - completeness, correctness and transparency about its 'reasoning'.First of all, I'm replying to you on this thread about poles and staffs, although the AI topic doesn't fit in here.
Despite my advanced age, I'm very interested in all new technologies. I never understood the attitude that people first rant against everything new by principle. In order to have a say at all, or to form your own opinion about new developments, you have to get to grips with them.
In my first thread, I did this with the example of Camino and revealed the big gaps and mistakes that undoubtedly still exist at this time and I thought that the topic might be interesting for others in this forum too.
It appealed to me to respond in a second post here on this thread to the question of @Sirage and to query ChatGPT; I certainly will not make this a habit. The answer was informative and at least as good in quality as the human posts. If you want to call this mindless pap, you would in all fairness have to call many human posts as such as well.
This forum is meant to share personal experiences and advice and I totally agree that ChatGPT can't contribute anything to this, except maybe answering the stereotypical, repetitive, and banal questions.
But AI will continue to develop rapidly and challenge – very possibly even replace – services such as Google and many others. In a broader context, this will also influence and change this forum and the members' lives here.
With that, I want to pursue the topic of AI in more appropriate forums.
Buen Camino
Pepi
check out this site.I do not like using hiking poles. I have a nice pair and I have adjusted the straps and lengths and use them properly on uphill, downhill and level ground but still prefer to go without. However, as I get ready for Norte and Primitivo, I am considering a walking staff. So a question to pole-averse staff users: any recommendations?
Thanks! This is certainly one of the better explanatory videos of using poles, but, respectfully, I have watched many of these and practiced their good information. However, I am walking the Camino, not climbing thru snow or crossing rivers. Not that the Camino does not have its challenges, but the majority of the Frances is easy walking. Truth be told, the only reason I am inclined towards poles is to save my knees. But after a day on the Camino, it is my feet and not my knees that hurt.
Thanks to all for a great many good perspectives. I am thinking that I will take my poles to start out on the Norte. I promise to give them a fair chance. If after a few days I still don’t like them, I will try a staff. And if that isn’t any better, I will hike as I have always hiked. Two feet, no poles, alert mind (well, most of the time) - and taking in the beauty of the world around me.
Don't want to be nasty, Robo; but you wrote here about it yourself...overweight.
I developed very bad tendinitis on my first CF. Ever since I make a habit of losing the equiv of my backpack in my weight, the 4-4 months prior to walking. (I am 185 cm tall - 100 = 85 kg norm weight- 6 kg backpack, or close to it)
Tendonitis and other pains in feet and knees never occurred again on subsequent Caminos. (Shoes of course were also an important issue, but you hopefully have found the solution there).
Just saying, hope you don't take it wrong
Le deseo buena suerte y perseverancia!Not taken the wrong way at all @pepi
In fact I thought of adding that aspect to my post, as there are a few 'chubby' Perigrinos out there....
I'd say the Number 1 factor to pain in the feet and knees is obesity!
Certainly in my case I reckon.
But hopefully a toned down version will be hitting the next Camino
Except for the part where poles make a good clothesline when required.Kind'a scary imo, but "it" was very thorough in answering.
We didn't need the 35 pior replies; only the last one, cuz "it" said just about everything very clearly and consise without added embellishments.
Some day forums may become obsolete with human input no longer needed. If so, a sad day indeed.
Hmmm. Ya tried that on a plane at x thousand feet? Might scare the heathen into rapid conversion!I remember reading about a British pole-vaulter in the 1950s who had to travel to training on the bus. He used to go up to the top deck, open a window and have his wife pass his pole up to him. He held it along the side of the bus. I don’t recall how he reversed the process.
Do carry on.
Weight? Length not adjustableHas anyone tried one of these? They look like they might travel well on budget airlines and not have to be discarded after walking…
FOREST PILOT Trekking Poles- 1-pc Pack - Adjustable Hiking or Walking Stick –Strong, Natural Beech wood - Quick Adjust Flip-Lock - Beech wood Grip, Leather Strap https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BJ1G79FT?tag=casaivar-21
There appears to be an adjustment mechanism on the top section - so similar to the BD adjustable Z-poles. Not clear what the weight is. The shipping weight packed is 600 gm, so they weigh less than that, but what. Is someone from the UK planning to buy some and road test them?Weight? Length not adjustable! A gadget, not a tool
There is information on that in the linkWeight? Length not adjustable! A gadget, not a tool
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