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Treatable? Not so sure. My wife and I have it...... But we don't stay in Albergues.
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
It’s unfortunate that you have not understood that the Camino has seen many people walk it for over a thousand years. Some of them are/were sick. If you needed a vacation then go to Hawaii.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
I hope the dental device you ordered helps you. My father suffered from asthma and I lost him last year due to this ailment. He couldn't laugh heartily as he would suffer an attack. I feel for all who struggle with breathing issues. May God bless you and buen camino.Dear Zordmot, I am so glad that you do not snore yourself, but here are a few words to help your understanding, I have sleep apnea and snore, loud enough that I have to wear ear plugs so not to wake myself at night. I do not think I have had a good night sleep for over 20 years due to this. I have twice tried to use CPAP machines, which seem to successfully decrease my incidence of snoring/apnea episodes, but have to give up after a couple of months of dedicated use. They are uncomfortable, limit ones movements in bed, troublesome to detach from to get up in the middle of the night, etc. I am very worried about the health problems that apnea can cause for me but just cannot do the CPAP route and other solutions, such as surgery do not have a great success rate. So treatment is not as easy or successful as one might think.
On a previous post about snoring and albergues, a kind member recommended a dental device that might help my apnea/snoring. I have ordered one, though it may not arrive in time for my camino. (Whoo Hoo, leaving in a week) I will be saying prayers during my camino for alleviation from this condition, however, I have also planned on staying in private rooms along my route to protect others from the experience of my snoring/gasping for air.
That's fine, but the logic escapes me. Why would you stop walking because you didn't like the sleeping conditions you had chosen? Is there not another solution?For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
My husband has mild sleep apnoea and a mandibular splint, like a mouth guard, has made life infinitely better - we both sleep. They do have to be custom made to push the lower jaw into a position that opens the airways. Hope yours works out. Buen CaminoDear Zordmot, I am so glad that you do not snore yourself, but here are a few words to help your understanding, I have sleep apnea and snore, loud enough that I have to wear ear plugs so not to wake myself at night. I do not think I have had a good night sleep for over 20 years due to this. I have twice tried to use CPAP machines, which seem to successfully decrease my incidence of snoring/apnea episodes, but have to give up after a couple of months of dedicated use. They are uncomfortable, limit ones movements in bed, troublesome to detach from to get up in the middle of the night, etc. I am very worried about the health problems that apnea can cause for me but just cannot do the CPAP route and other solutions, such as surgery do not have a great success rate. So treatment is not as easy or successful as one might think.
On a previous post about snoring and albergues, a kind member recommended a dental device that might help my apnea/snoring. I have ordered one, though it may not arrive in time for my camino. (Whoo Hoo, leaving in a week) I will be saying prayers during my camino for alleviation from this condition, however, I have also planned on staying in private rooms along my route to protect others from the experience of my snoring/gasping for air.
Zordmot I completely empathise. My husband’s mild sleep apnoea kept me awake for years with unbelievably loud snoring, so I really feel for you in the presence of a severe sufferer. Like you I need my sleep so will be going the route of private accommodations on my first Camino. Please don’t give up over this.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
I’ll take snorers and the like over 5am risers with their headlamps, cell phone alarms, and endless bag rustling...
There are silent and there are loud early risersPerfectly silent and respectful 5am riser here! Just thought I’d mention that we do exist!
I was a 5 am rustler, usually because I had given up hope for any sleep because the heating was on in the Albergue at night, but I would pack my bag at night so all I just carried my pack and sleeping bag into the common area to pack.I’ll take snorers and the like over 5am risers with their headlamps, cell phone alarms, and endless bag rustling...
I slept in a room with 5 bunk beds with 9 other pilgrims. A pilgrim had a machine running between our bunk beds during the night. The machine was very loud and constant. It woke up everyone in the room. Pilgrims were getting up, moving around and the pilgrim using the machine woke up to use the toilet. Don’t know if some one said something to the pilgrim with the machine. Afterwards, the machine was not as loud. I managed to get some sleep.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Reading threads like this make me wary of EVER trying an Albergue
the exact same thing happened to my husband and I when we walked last year. Luckily for us, the offender was a bicigrino, so we never saw here again! She must have been single, to have such a lack of self-awareness of her snoring habits.I entered an albergue one afternoon and there was only one other person there so far, another woman. She requested a dorm with just women; no men. The hospitalero said that so far no men had come in, but that - if they did - he would point them to beds at the far other end of the room. She was adamant that she preferred not to be in the same room with men. So her bunk was next to mine and sure enough, a group of men show up next and they are taken to beds far away from us. She complained about it and, when I asked her why she didn't want men in the room she said, "Because they all snore and keep me awake!" She then lay down for an afternoon nap and I tape recorded her (she is not identifiable in this 16 sec video, but you can hear her snoring)
I have something that I keep in my backpack for just such a situation. It's called tolerance - it works wonders for me.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Surely there has to be some hardship in life or a pilgrimage? Walking short distances with bag transportation and staying in proper hotels involves no hardship or difficulty, with out effort there is no reward. A loss of sleep in the Albergue at night is not really a problem as you are unlikely to fall CV asleep while walking. Just have an afternoon nap when you arrive.
If you are tired and you want to sleep it is easily done.
The OP says that he is awake at 2 am so it is obviously not easily done for everyone. I know that I don't recuperate as quickly and easily as I did when I was younger and I seem to wake up more easily when there is a disturbance and take now longer to get back to sleep again. And aren't people who have been sleep deprived more accident prone and more likely to make a not so great decision?A loss of sleep in the Albergue at night is not really a problem as you are unlikely to fall CV asleep while walking. Just have an afternoon nap when you arrive.
If you are tired and you want to sleep it is easily done.
I understand the argument that we all need to be tolerant in communal sleeping areas and have to put up with some disturbance. A certain level is inevitable. But I do find myself in some sympathy with the original post. I think that those who are aware that they are likely to make such excessive noise while they sleep should act responsibly and take all practical steps to minimise the disturbance to others. Even if that means choosing private rooms rather than dormitory accommodation. Personally I would be mortified to learn that I had been the cause of such disturbance to others.
My comment is not directed at anyone in particular but I feel courageous this morning so I'm going to tackle this argument as it frequently appears in the threads. And of course someone will now cite cases that will counter what I'm going to say. What I'm going to say is that I don't buy itIt's great saying just get a single room, but in doing so you're literally doubling, maybe more the cost of a camino and [...] that would be prohibitive. I don't think there are that many of us who stay at albergues who do so because we love sleeping in large rooms full of strangers, it's a financially expedient compromise that allows us to do what we love/feel called to do.
Tolerance is wonderful - when we genuinely have it.I have something that I keep in my backpack for just such a situation. It's called tolerance - it works wonders for me.
it's not so easily done for everyone.
That's like saying you must start in SJPP and walk to Roncesvalles via the Napoleon route.On the Camino Frances there are plenty of other options. The idea that dormitory sleeping is a prerequisite for the "full pilgrimage experience" was and is alien to me.
I would tend to agree with you @Dorpje. If snoring is bothersome, then the onus is on the one being bothered to take care of him- or herself, rather than asking the world to conform to their unique needs. Especially as it relates to things others can't control, like snoring.in this setting I don't think it's appropriate to expect the snorer to go and pay for private rooms.
smelly, rustley and light shiney (the three dwarves so bad they didn't make it into the Snow White story)
You shifted the argument from the question of affordability of private rooms versus dormitory beds to the question of who should cede grounds or be excluded - the snorer or the sleepless guy. Fair enough and I don't have the answer. There's no general "should", just a "what's wiser of me or better for me".My response is why should I the snorer not be welcome at the inn when smelly, rustley and light shiney [...] are? And after the snorers are banished who will be next to be deemed beyond the pale?
Great.My own method of dealing with snorers is to enjoy enough vino tinto and a shot or two of oroujo.. to produce a deep sleep. I would suggest you get mildly sozzled each night before bed...
You shifted the argument from the question of affordability of private rooms versus dormitory beds to the question of who should cede grounds or be excluded - the snorer or the sleepless guy.
Just decide to sleep.Reading threads like this make me wary of EVER trying an Albergue
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Yeah, those snorers, both men and women, can be noisy. Maybe they should be banned from all albergues. For good measure maybe those after 10 PM talkers, drinkers, coughers, night terror people, old guys getting up to use the bathroom, insomniacs, getting up for a smoke people, should also be banned. Wait, then it would be a hotel room. Missing would also be the joy of sharing Camino stories and the Spirit of the Camino. It has been this way a very long time. Blessing on you, Zordmot that you come back to Camino. Six time Camino veteran.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
There are many many many options to sleeping in dormitories, all along the Camino, including private rooms in Albergues. I have done various caminos, including the Frances (twice). If you can walk a reasonable distance, you can find a private room EVERY night on every one of the Caminos I have been on. Sorry for your sleep deprivation. But don’t worry, your disendorsement will not damage the reputation of the Camino nor reduce the number of walkers who love it.As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Very wise counselDear Friend,
I understand and empathize with your frustration and dissatisfaction. These feelings are easy to feel given the circumstances. It is seems a rather normal expectation that others who have personal issues would plan their Camino in such a way that it does not disrupt the Caminos of those without personal problems. But, I have often sat back and thought, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
I feel great pity for those who struggle for what is required each day - a decent night's sleep. I don't know their financial situation or the reasons/motivations for their being on Camino. I try to say a little prayer for them that their challenges would be lightened for the rest of their pilgrimage. I will control only what I can - I will use ear plugs nightly, I will try to be aware of those with issues that are hard for me and avoid them in the future, and I will try to do something thoughtful and kind for them the next day where and when possible.
Lastly, the Camino will call you back - she always does - follow your heart when that sweet, gentle call comes.
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
With a CPAP machine. I have seen plenty of pilgrims use them at night.Treatable? Not so sure.
My wife and I have it......
But we don't stay in Albergues.
I am always saddened when someone ends a camino because of what others do. Nothing is in one's control except oneself, and a camino teaches that over and over. May you find happiness in other endeavors.
Stay in hotels . That us what I am doing .As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
@KinkyOne I don’t know...I’ve been an early riser since childhood and though I have been criticised for it a lot as though it’s a terrible moral failure, at 42 I have to resign myself that it’s not likely to ever change. I just wake up at 4:30/5am and feel bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready to go! But I can honestly say that I have never woken anyone up (unless I wanted to).
But I flag early in the evening and very often find myself yawning my head off by 8pm.
Personally I would be mortified to learn that I had been the cause of such disturbance to others.
With a CPAP machine. I have seen plenty of pilgrims use them at night.
Most of us posting here about tolerance and "go with the flow," etc are writing from the comfort of our own homes, after having had a good night's sleep. It should be noted that, with hard physical days and lack of sleep night after night, I bet most of us have been where the OP is: grumpy and swearing off the Camino for good at some point. As for tolerance, we should probably be understanding of those using this forum to rant occasionally from the field. I think I made a similar, outraged post once from the Camino, wanting to murder people using perfumed sprays and menthol foot lotions in the albergue. The OP may feel very differently about all this tomorrow.
I hear ya, Zordmot! May you get a good night's rest tonight!
I wish you good sleep tonightAs I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Exactly one of the reasons why people are awaken by snorers because they already got some (half?) amount of the needed daily sleep and their sleep during the night just isn't as sound as it would be without afternoon nap. Just sayin'...Just have an afternoon nap when you arrive.
If you are tired and you want to sleep it is easily done.
Couldn't agree more with all you said in your post....
So while I have huge sympathy with the OP, sleep deprivation is a torture technique after all, in this setting I don't think it's appropriate to expect the snorer to go and pay for private rooms. Unless you're offering to pay for me @Bradypus in which case I'll happily oblige
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
I do snore myself which I have been told is very loud and also has great variations of sounds . Which is why when my two Amigos and myself embark on a Camino we opt for private accommodation and we alternate the sleeping arrangements each night, giving at least one person a good night's sleep.
We are on the Portuguese Coastal Camino at this moment and my two Amigos are very happy with this arrangement.
Don't give up the Camino, think of a different approach. Best wishes, whatever you choose.
With a CPAP machine. I have seen plenty of pilgrims use them at night.
Yes, and having carried one in 2016, I was disappointed to find that people were intolerant of the relatively low level of white noise it made. There was no apparent consideration of the fact that I was lumping almost another kg of CPAP equipment with me with in order to avoid the disruption my snoring might have caused.Have you seen how much portable CPAP machines cost?
I have absolute sympathy for OP and his sleep deprivation, it is a form of torture .... However, everyone who does not snore or have apnea need to understand that those of us who do have 24/7/365 sleep deprivation. The repetitive lack of oxygen during ones sleep does cause frequent wakings for bladder emptying. Frequent wakings also create a lack of REM sleep which is important for ones well being. The lack of deep sleep and the deprivation of oxygen leave me at HIGH risk for heart attack and stroke. I already have prediabetes and HTN, cognitive/memory issues, grumpiness, wake with headaches, and am overweight, all comorbidities of sleep apnea. Doctors recommend that losing weight would help the apnea but guess what....sleep apnea stress on my body makes it nearly impossible to lose weight. I snore and have apneac episodes while sleeping sitting up, lying on my side or back. So the tennis ball, hair clip, sleep number elevating bed do not work for my situation. CPAP machines do make a certain amount of noise so using one can disturb others in the room. Portable CPAP machines cost $200-$800. I also have concerns about how hygienic the machines really are. You are forcing warm, moist air into one's nose/mouth. When I used one my allergies were worse.
I am blessed to have a small inheritance from my recently deceased parents which make my Camino possible this year instead of waiting. Praying for them is one of my reasons for this Camino. Their gift will make possible the ability to afford private rooms to spare anyone suffering from my sleep problems. I do realize that having a private room will decrease my ability to enjoy the camaraderie of pilgrims that occurs when one stays at an alburgue but I will try to make up for it by being more extroverted myself. (a personal torture as I am usually greatly introverted). I am also prepared to ignore comments I may encounter about not being a "real pilgrim" because I will be staying in lodging other than communal bunk rooms.
That said, I am looking forward to an amazing Camino that will open my Heart and make my Soul more porous than I can ever imagine. Buen Camino to you all on your camino through life.
As I lay here in my 7th albergue awake at 2 am after walking 27 km yesterday, each night has been the same: the room is dominated not by snorers but by people with sleep apnea- a severe medical untreated medical condition. The asleep person 4 ft away from me is in a marathon struggle for survival and sounds at as loud as a chain saw. I can hear two others in this room in the same boat. Why oh why do these people who know what their sleeping does to others stay in albergues? We all sympathize for their condition—although it is treatable-but this lack of consideration for others is mind boggling to me. For this reason I won’t be walking again and I can’t recommend the Camino to others.
Gee, you're tidy!
I'm an artistic wreck (although it seems chaos to others it's order for me) all the time, wherever I am. That's why I'm always the last one to leave the albergue in the morning. It really wouldn't be fair to others to be both snorer AND bag rustlerI love not having a lot of stuff. At home, I'm an artistic wreck.
Have you seen how much portable CPAP machines cost? No. All I am saying is that true sleep apnoea is life-threatening, and diagnosed sufferers use CPAPs.
Great idea! I snore on my back too-- I ask my son to poke me and ask me to roll over if I'm snoring. I'll try the hair clip.I have been known to snore when sleeping on my back. I find that wearing one of these hair clips on the back of my head is effective at keeping me on my side.
View attachment 56730
Those without hair can try sewing a pocket on the back of a t-shirt and putting a tennis ball in it trick.
Fascinating. Did you get some sleep, too?I came to enjoy the rhythms & variety of snores, noticing when one stopped, how often another started. My sense of a high level of unconscious communication occurring through the whole range of these sounds developed.
Many restful sleeps .... I’ve come to love albergue life & it’s sense of humanity together...... although I do enjoy the occasional private room or hotel .... nothing like a proper towel & bath matFascinating. Did you get some sleep, too?
Yes, and having carried one in 2016, I was disappointed to find that people were intolerant of the relatively low level of white noise it made. There was no apparent consideration of the fact that I was lumping almost another kg of CPAP equipment with me with in order to avoid the disruption my snoring might have caused.
The experience reconfirmed my simple position on this matter. The albergues are for everyone. If you don't find anything about them to your liking, you are the one that needs to address that. If that means that you have to pay for a private room, that is the price of your preferences. Don't ever think that you have some entitlement to move those costs to someone else.
But may keep people who won't enjoy it from walking - which is good.But don’t worry, your disendorsement will not damage the reputation of the Camino nor reduce the number of walkers who love it.
I prefer to have several snorers in the room rather than just one, because they tend to fill in the gaps between the other snorers, and (hopefully) it becomes more like white noise.Somewhere I read a suggestion to breath in time with the snorers. I also kept pondering the evolutionary advantage of snoring - to keep us safe from predators?
I tried the breathing suggestion while on a camino last year, & continued pondering on evolutionary advantage, through many an albergue, I found both ideas worked a treat. They settled and calmed me, and I came to enjoy the rhythms & variety of snores, noticing when one stopped, how often another started. My sense of a high level of unconscious communication occurring through the whole range of these sounds developed.
I came to enjoy and appreciate my “caves of bears”, doing their best to keep us all safe. And sometimes as I settled and really focused on joining my breathing with theirs, the whole room became silent
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