Making the stage SJPP to Roncesvalles safer

[ivar]

I just saw this today and Thought I would add the link to it here:


In Spanish:
"Los peregrinos a Santiago dispondrán de un nuevo punto de comunicación con el 112 en el Collado de Lepoeder"
http://www.navarra.es/home_es/Actualidad/Sala de prensa/Noticias/2014/09/17/peregrinos camino santiago punto comunicacion 112 sos navarra wifi collado lepoeder pirineos atlanti.htm

In short, there will be set up a "hotline" to the 112 (emergency services) at "Collado de Lepoeder" on this stage. Here pilgrims can get in touch with 112 if needed. It seems this point on the route have limited mobile coverage, so this would improve safety. There is also talks of setting up a "wifi hotspot" point at the same location.

It is not there yet, but in planning.

 

[supersullivan]

Have to confess to mixed feelings about this, an emergency phone seems like a reasonable idea but WiFi?
One of the main tenets of hill walking is taking personal responsibility for ones actions and safety. I know from crossing the Route Napoleon on a very cold, misty day in May 2013 that there were a couple of trail junctions after Thibault cross that would benefit by clear route signage and perhaps a large suitable warning sign cautioning of proceeding in poor weather conditions near the Thibault Cross in Spanish, French, German and English ( that should be able to be understood by 90+ % of peregrinos ) might be worth considering?

 

[NicoZ]

Wouldn't be the first time an internet connection has saved somebody's life. If you haven't brought a voice phone then you can't exactly call 112. But if you have an internet connected device you might get a message to somebody that can call for help.

I'll give an extreme example. If you have a wifi camera then making a SOS out of rocks and sending a photo to a friend might work.

It's also easier to check weather reports etc.

 

[supersullivan]

Wouldn't be the first time an internet connection has saved somebody's life. If you haven't brought a voice phone then you can't exactly call 112. But if you have an internet connected device you might get a message to somebody that can call for help.

I'll give an extreme example. If you have a wifi camera then making a SOS out of rocks and sending a photo to a friend might work.

It's also easier to check weather reports etc.

Hi Nico, my Spanish isn't great but if I understand the article properly I think the intention is to instal a landline phone in a location between the Spanish/French border cattle grid and the top of the Col de Lepoeder ( presumably in a shelter of some kind ) as the mobile signal in that area is very poor, at that point being able to access a weather forecast might be a bit redundant.
Grateful if anyone whose Spanish is better than mine might be able to clarify the location intended for the phone.

Seamus

 

[scruffy1]

All reasonable and thoughtful comments...however. A quick visit through the forum quickly reveals dozens of posts: "I only have three weeks and can just about make it to SdC at 32k a day"; "I am so very excited that I haven't slept in a week"; "I really wanted to train but haven't had time" or "this couch potato is leaving tomorrow"; "Will my three year old hiking boots be good enough or how about the pair that has been in the attic for a decade". Common sense and responsibility are good things but the overwhelming excitement, the time restricted scheduling, the exuberant ,often overconfident estimation of one's physical abilities, first day hesitancy and even fears all point to the need for this service as well as at other places along the Camino as well. For example the stretch from Cizur Menor over L'Alto del Perdón, down the other side and on into Uterga is a lonely way, if inclement it is quickly slippery and dangerous and likewise accessibility is not a strong point.

 

[wayfarer]

I think we must "live" in the times we live, including the technology. I can text my brother in Australia and nine seconds later he will recieve it. (we timed it on day while on the landline). This is the stuff of sci fi comics we read when we were kids, its all along the camino now so why not use it if it keeps us in contact or especialy save a life.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

One of the main tenets of hill walking is taking personal responsibility for ones actions and safety.

And when someone doesn't, should they die?

 

[JoeNYC]

I think we must "live" in the times we live, including the technology. I can text my brother in Australia and nine seconds later he will recieve it. (we timed it on day while on the landline). This is the stuff of sci fi comics we read when we were kids, its all along the camino now so why not use it if it keeps us in contact or especialy save a life.

I had a similar moment in 1999. I was in the middle of the Mohave Desert talking on a cellphone to friend who was standing in the Sahara Desert.

 

[mspath]

I had a similar moment in 1999. I was in the middle of the Mohave Desert talking on a cellphone to friend who was standing in the Sahara Desert.

Reads like an updated vignette from Le Petite Prince!

MM

 

[Diefenbaker]

I think both ideas are long overdue. When I crossed in 2010 a blizzard and gale force winds came up suddenly and had not been forecast so it caught many of us out. A little way behind me a lady found a Pilgrim on the ground suffering from Hypothermia but was unable to get a signal on her phone to call for help. After covering him up she had to climb the rocks to get a signal but there was no one in the emergency room in Bayonne that spoke English that morning. She then had to find someone that spoke French but then they had no idea where they were so 2 teams were sent to look for them from each side of the border. He was eventually found but it was a long time after he was first discovered apparently, and the lady was told the next day, when she rang to enquire how he was, that he had died the previous day. If she'd been able to get a wifi signal when she first found him it may have made a difference to the outcome. Those mountains can be very dangerous for at least 6 months of the year so anything the authorities do to make the crossing safer should be welcomed.
I do agree with the earlier comment about improving the signage too. I ended up following the GR signs for part of the way and in a blizzard many of the existing signs were very hard to spot even though it was too windy for the snow to settle.
I hope these plans are carried out quickly.

 

[Saint Mike II]

And when someone doesn't, should they die?

Hey Falcon - a bit tough!! From what I have read here and elsewhere we have enough pilgrims expiring before SDC.
Yes take personal responsibility - but the weather anywhere in the world above 2500 meters can change in less than an hour which results in the front and back doors (the track ahead and behind) closing. So if the French and Spanish want to reduce this number I say its a good thing.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Hey Falcon - a bit tough!!

an emergency phone seems like a reasonable idea but WiFi?

When the technology exists to save lives, I think it is a good idea to use it. I have carried a Spot device that has an SOS function that requests help through GPS satellites. If WiFi can be added to make the crossing safer, I am not concerned that someone who avoids technology will be offended. I would have it installed even if an occasional pilgrim will also use it to check his email. Complete cell coverage may be the best. It would not require having the emergency next to the emergency phone or the WiFi station; a pilgrim could call for help anywhere. Those avoiding technology would then need to confront what is taking personal responsibility compared to what is an "authentic" camino!

 

[jmcarp]

Gee, if Daniel Avery had access to an emergency phone he might not have died up on the Napoleon Route and his dad would not have come to St Jean to retrieve his remains and then decide to walk the Camino and meet all those oddball people. Daniel would have been just another pilgrim and there wouldn't have been a plot for a movie so there probably wouldn't be as many pilgrims on the Camino Francés today nervously rushing from place to place looking for a place to sleep.

Seriously, though, I think the idea of a fixed landline phone up on or near the pass is a good idea. Maybe the stone hut would be a good place for it if they don't put it right up at the top.

 

[GerryDel]

I love the idea. Let's improve this stage!

 

[supersullivan]

Gee, if Daniel Avery had access to an emergency phone he might not have died up on the Napoleon Route and his dad would not have come to St Jean to retrieve his remains and then decide to walk the Camino and meet all those oddball people. Daniel would have been just another pilgrim and there wouldn't have been a plot for a movie so there probably wouldn't be as many pilgrims on the Camino Francés today nervously rushing from place to place looking for a place to sleep.

Seriously, though, I think the idea of a fixed landline phone up on or near the pass is a good idea. Maybe the stone hut would be a good place for it if they don't put it right up at the top.

I had thought from reading articles about a few of the winter time rescues that there was already a fixed land line for emergencies in the shelter after the Thibault Cross and was assuming that the intention of this proposal was to have a 2nd emergency phone installed further along nearer the high point of the route. As I haven't looked into the shelter when I passed I can't say for sure but if anyone has hard information on this I'd appreciate confirmation or otherwise as to whether an emergengy phone is located within the existing shelter.

 

[jpflavin1]

If the original Pilgrims had the option of WiFi and cellphones, I am sure they would have used them.

Nothing here prevents a purest or anyone from walking the Camino their way. There are all kinds of alternative routes and GR's that exist as options to the Napoleon route.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[David]

Hypothermia makes you stupid, stupidity kills - the Napoleon pass goes over a high mountain, it must be the only mountain I can think of that people just walk over carrying too much weight and too little experience. I was nearly caught out in March of the year 5 - it was open but snowed up there and there was a howling wind ... I became a little stupid for a while ... mountains kill people, we all know this - anything that can make the route safer should be welcomed. For me, well I would like to see more shelters up there, somewhere to get out of the wind - or blizzard if it is early or late in the season ... also, there are some trail poles but they are not tall enough ... I would like to see trail poles up there that don't disappear in a fall of snow.
I suggested, a few years ago, of a donation for going over the pass, donations to be used for safety stuff, emergency stuff up there - we know that pilgrims die up there, it seems to happen each year now ... and the thing is, when they get exhausted they get lost or don't stop - exhaustion and hypothermia makes you stupid, the brain doesn't work properly ... it is possible that a wi-fi or phone link may not work, I don't know, but a series of strong shelters where one can get out of the weather and wait in safety ... I'm all for that ...

 

[alexwalker]

David,
your ideas/suggestions seem very appropriate.

PS: Enjoy your captivity in France: It must have a purpose.

All the best,

 

[whariwharangi]

Hypothermia makes you stupid, stupidity kills - the Napoleon pass goes over a high mountain, it must be the only mountain I can think of that people just walk over carrying too much weight and too little experience. I was nearly caught out in March of the year 5 - it was open but snowed up there and there was a howling wind ... I became a little stupid for a while ... mountains kill people, we all know this - anything that can make the route safer should be welcomed. For me, well I would like to see more shelters up there, somewhere to get out of the wind - or blizzard if it is early or late in the season ... also, there are some trail poles but they are not tall enough ... I would like to see trail poles up there that don't disappear in a fall of snow.
I suggested, a few years ago, of a donation for going over the pass, donations to be used for safety stuff, emergency stuff up there - we know that pilgrims die up there, it seems to happen each year now ... and the thing is, when they get exhausted they get lost or don't stop - exhaustion and hypothermia makes you stupid, the brain doesn't work properly ... it is possible that a wi-fi or phone link may not work, I don't know, but a series of strong shelters where one can get out of the weather and wait in safety ... I'm all for that ...

The same problem of inexperienced overloaded hikers exists on the Chilkoot trail ... of Klondike gold rush fame ... where there is noted risk of hypothermia. Parks Canada installed a person in one of the old RCMP huts at the border and height of land during the main hiking season with the job of assessing people for exhaustion and hypothermia as they came up the mountain. Hot lemonade was ready for consumption. Radio communications were in place with a US Park Ranger at the bottom of the hill so there was a matching count.

Perhaps the stone hut near the border just below col de Lepoeder could be used for a similar purpose with a volunteer in place.

I'm not sure that additional communication resources would help. A woman equipped with an ipod and within cellular coverage recently went missing while hiking in the mountains near my home. In this instance heat exhaustion was likely a factor.

 

[David]

Coo! a chain of stone shelters with volunteers in them with hot tea and biscuits? Count me in!! Absolutely!!

 

[Diefenbaker]

Coo! a chain of stone shelters with volunteers in them with hot tea and biscuits? Count me in!! Absolutely!!

Or offering wine? We are talking about France and Spain here . Would mulled wine be appropriate to warm people up?

 

[whariwharangi]

Or offering wine? We are talking about France and Spain here . Would mulled wine be appropriate to warm people up?

Alcohol thins the blood. So while the warmth of the mulled wine would help initially, ultimately you'd end up colder and more prone to hypothermia.

 

[Al the optimist]

I think that was a tongue in cheek remark.