Merino layers for April/May - advice about Icebreaker weights

[AlongTheAway]

Hi everyone

Thanks to all the advice on the forums and the excellent post Christmas sales I am making progress on my Camino gear (including two pairs of shoes being tested and just bought my backpack today!)

Now moving on to the top part of me. As a big Icebreaker fan I am thinking about going with the following layers:

2 x Icebreaker tank top (150 & 150 - second is to sleep in)
2 x Icebreaker tshirt (135 & 150 - second is to alternate while washing)
2 x Icebreaker long sleeve top (180 & ? haven't bought a second yet, it's to alternate while washing)
1 x Icebreaker long sleeve full zip jacket (?)
1 x Marmot Precip for rain/wind

My big question is - what weight should I get for the long sleeve full zip jacket? There is an Icebreaker sale on at the moment and I have a choice of 200, 230 or 260.

I will be walking from 8 April 2017. I checked the average temps for April (3-6 to 14-16c) and May (6-10 to 16-22c). I tend to feel the cold easily when I'm still, but heat up when I walk. Based on this I'm leaning toward the 230 or 260 but I don't have a lot of experience (yet!) with layering while being active, I'm wondering if I should go for lighter... I guess layering is best. Just wanted some opinions on what the experts think

Thanks very much in advance!!

 

[Kanga]

I always go for the lightest and finest - I find even in the coldest weather than layered light garments are plenty warm enough, provided I have a windbreaker, in my case a Patagonia Houdini. You have the Precip.

With what you already have I doubt you need the long sleeve full zip jacket, although it might be nice for evenings. If you do buy one then you certainly don't need the second long-sleeve Icebreaker top as well. And you probably only need one tank top. In early April you are unlikely to wear the tank top by itself, and you will heat up when walking so it will be too warm to wear as underwear. A merino t-shirt and long sleeve top makes perfect sense, with the Precip over the top if it is windy or cold.

 

[wayfarer]

I would agree with Kanga on this. I carried two Merino short sleeve T's and one long sleeved, the weight was 150. I opted for a 1/4 zip fleece rather than the Merino jacket, I used my rain jacket as the top layer when it was very cold. I walked from 19th April in a very wet and cold Spring. I also carried a lightweight sleeping bag and a silk liner as some of the albergues could be cold enough.
Buen Camino.

 

[SYates]

I agree with @Kanga and @wayfarer , also "second is to sleep in" most pilgrims just sleep in some of the clothes they are wearing the next day, so no need for extra sleep-wear. Buen Camino, SY

 

[J Willhaus]

Be sure to look at the actual weight you will have to carry as well. I have an Ibex quarter zip hoodie made of merino that weighs 6 oz. It is warm and also light to carry..

 

[Lmsundaze]

I brought 1 icebreaker cool lite long sleeve and one lightweight icebreaker short sleeve, also a light long sleeve shirt for sun protection. I also brought a light polyester tshirt - in addition I had a Patagonia nano puff and a thin rainjacket. That's it for tops - didn't need more (4.5 kg backpack)

 

[SabsP]

My Icebreaker tanktop was the first item to get rid off after my first Camino. I too wanted it as PJ top but saw that a simple short sleeved was a better idea because of double use.

I now substituted Icebreaker and bought ( got a gift voucher ) the Swedish brand Woolpower ( 80 % merino and 20 polyamide ). The salesperson told me something interesting : if your first layer is merino your second should be merino too and not a synthetic product...something about insulating and wicking etc. But by then he was talking too technical for my liking ).

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Agreed, leave the tank tops at home. Too early in the season, but even in the middle of summer you would get little use out of them as you would be looking for sun protection and a good layer between your shoulders and backpack straps.

Also, in April you are likely to get rain. Will a merino sweater dry easily enough? There is something to be said for polar fleece.

 

[SabsP]

Agreed, leave the tank tops at home. Too early in the season, but even in the middle of summer you would get little use out of them as you would be looking for sun protection and a good layer between your shoulders and backpack straps.

Also, in April you are likely to get rain. Will a merino sweater dry easily enough? There is something to be said for polar fleece.

In addition : for my next March/April Frances I will bring two fleece polars ( lightweight though ) instead of my normal one. This year March ( SdC to Finisterre) I noticed that although I warm up quickly during walking I tend to get really cold in afternoon in albergue and therefore a second dry fleece for this.

So :

1 short sleeved Woolpower shirt
1 long sleeved Woolpower shirt
1 lightweight polar Haglofs fleece.
1 Marmot Precip rainjacket
Peel off a layer during the day....

For the evening/afternoon
Dry and clean long sleeved Icebreaker shirt
Lightweight Jack Wolfskin fleece jacket.

 

[mcopeland]

Walked the Frances in late April through June (slow walkers!). I would not take my long sleeved merino again, but another short sheeved one. I too am cold natured and was surprised how much I heated up after the first hour. For most days I wore my short sleeved Icebreaker with an open Columbia shirt over it. If cold I put on my Marmot Precip. I also had a soft short sleeved Cool brand (tech) shirt and light weight leggings for sleeping. Except for crossing the Pyranees, some early mornings and some evenings, I seldom wore the light weight fleece I took.

 

[Cliff175]

I walked the Camino Frances in April into May 2013. I encountered, snow, rain, wind ( the sleeper element ) like I never experienced in my life and sun. I learned it's important to walk in all types of weather prior to leaving. I live in Massachusetts so I have ample selection of weather to test my gear. Most important test your boots make sure they dont leak ! Mine were defective, ended up going to hospital with blisters. So now I seal all the seams stand in a basin of water to test for leaks. You'll "appreciate your feet" and all they do for you, most important to take care of them ! Blisters can be a game changer, watch for infection, bring an antiseptic. Also I practice getting up early everyday for a couple weeks before I leave, and walk no matter what the weather.

After about a week you'll see the emotion on peoples faces changing , you know what " This isn't fun anymore" out of your comfort zone for sure ! Thats when they start taking, buses, taxi'e etc. So the camino becomes a head game too, a test of determination. It's not all fun and games it's rigorous . So prepare for that too.

Another lesson I learned is to " Honor Your Body " the nuns always told me that , took me 65 yeas to figure it out. Drink water, then drink more water very important, I've seen people dehydrated not a pretty picture. Eat right, and my favorite fuel is Chocolate ! Always carry a large bar ! If you have to rest, rest, "once you find your legs" you'll be amazed the distance you can walk if you have to. Key is not to get injured out of the gate. Give your body time to adjust. Don't get caught up in the " have to be there " issue. Take your time enjoy the walk. Once your feet ,legs, and mind come together you'll amaze yourself !

If you have extra clothing I leave it in the albergue or church. You 'll soon find out how little you really need, goes to good use either place.
Thats my two cents to prepare for camino.
Remember the " Turtle Won"
Buen Camino !
Cliff

 

[naplesdon]

Lots a great advice, excellent thread.
As a guy I think a tanktop would be a waste. Sy's right, sleep in some fresh&dry stuff you plan to walk in the next morning.
Lot of your decision making should be based on how much you sweat and your tolerance to cold. You want the merino wool to wick and dry as you walk, rather than creating your own personal sauna. I find the light weight t's are all I need but understand I generally only walk between May and September. The best thing about Merino is unlike cotton or polyester it doesn't stink from perspiration odors after years of repeated abuse and I'm sure there are some who will vouch for me that I'm the expert at that.
I bought the Patagonia nano puff vest for my trip last month to Moratinos, it is wonderful light weight addition to a pack.
My son who is from Denver and an avid outdoors man convince be to buy a Arc'teryx fleece from REI for my recent trip. I would not have survived without it.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Love the Icebreaker as well! My suggestion for you is less about which pieces you decide to carry for layers but rather how many you take with you.

One of the greatest features of quality Merino wool (as compared to the really cheap stuff you can find in various wholesale stores) is that you can wear it literally for weeks without generating any adverse smells! This was Icebreakers claim so to test it myself I wore the same Icebreaker t-shirt everyday for 32 days one summer at home when I was working around the house and yard. After those 32 days the shirt still didn't smell!! I hand washed it after that and it was plain to see that the shirt was filthy (dirt) but their claims about not smelling really did hold true so when I left for my subsequent spring Camino I just took 2 150 weight Icebreaker shirts (1 for walking, 1 for sleeping) as they dry faster on the odd occasion that they actually need to be washed.

This could save you a small amount of weight and a large amount of money. Have fun deciding and Buen Camino!!

 

[Susan Peacock]

I walked last year from April 14- May 21 and also had extreme cold, rain, sleet and snow. It wasn't really short sleeve (in the daytime) weather until the last 10 days and we did encounter a snow storm at Cruz de Fero on May 12th. So I agree with leaving the tanks at home and I would only take one short sleeve shirt, as I doubt you would wear one in the evening. I would have 3 layers for evening which you can also sleep in, as it can be cold and damp in some of the albergues. For this time of year I also was really glad to have my Ferrino rain poncho (thats not really a poncho.) All of my comments are specific to the time of year you are walking as pilgrims 2 weeks behind me had very different weather.

 

[dougfitz]

I agree with the general trend of this advice, but was wondering how you were planning to layer the various options. You appear to have enough to create five layers, which might not be your intention, and is probably going to be too much even in early spring. My own experience is that at this time of year I started the day with three layers, and after an hour or so reduced that to two. If it rained, I would add my rain jacket to whatever I was wearing. Very rarely did I use a full four layer system, but when it was needed, it was really needed.

My camino layering pattern is:

• base layer - light wool blend tee shirt (mine are from OR). These are more robust than any pure merino garment, which I find tear and get holes too easily.
• mid-layer - long or short sleeved shirt, depending on the conditions. I sometimes use a long sleeved knit during walks locally, but have always chosen a conventional, woven fabric, shirt for the camino. The mid-layer knits I use are now synthetic - pure wool knits are even less robust as an outer layer for me, and I now don't bother with them in this role.
• insulating layer - light weight polar fleece 1/4 zip
• wind/rain layer - I have tried several over the years, ranging from light-weight and short to heavy-weight and long. They all have some compromises.

While I find that pure wool knits are not robust enough for my local walking, conditions on the camino are more benign, and a pure wool knit might well survive intact. However, I have never found the 'no-smell' promise to be believable or achievable. I sweat, and even pure wool will have an obvious smell. It won't be as bad as some synthetics like polypropylene, but I wouldn't want to go without washing my clothes most days.

 

[naplesdon]

I agree with the general trend of this advice, but was wondering how you were planning to layer the various options. You appear to have enough to create five layers, which might not be your intention, and is probably going to be too much even in early spring. My own experience is that at this time of year I started the day with three layers, and after an hour or so reduced that to two. If it rained, I would add my rain jacket to whatever I was wearing. Very rarely did I use a full four layer system, but when it was needed, it was really needed.

My camino layering pattern is:

• base layer - light wool blend tee shirt (mine are from OR). These are more robust than any pure merino garment, which I find tear and get holes too easily.
• mid-layer - long or short sleeved shirt, depending on the conditions. I sometimes use a long sleeved knit during walks locally, but have always chosen a conventional, woven fabric, shirt for the camino. The mid-layer knits I use are now synthetic - pure wool knits are even less robust as an outer layer for me, and I now don't bother with them in this role.
• insulating layer - light weight polar fleece 1/4 zip
• wind/rain layer - I have tried several over the years, ranging from light-weight and short to heavy-weight and long. They all have some compromises.

While I find that pure wool knits are not robust enough for my local walking, conditions on the camino are more benign, and a pure wool knit might well survive intact. However, I have never found the 'no-smell' promise to be believable or achievable. I sweat, and even pure wool will have an obvious smell. It won't be as bad as some synthetics like polypropylene, but I wouldn't want to go without washing my clothes most days.

Doug, at this point can we say you "stink?"

 

[dougfitz]

Doug, at this point can we say you "stink?"

All these things are in the eye of the beholder. I prefer to wash my clothes, and myself, so that I don't.

The more serious point is that promises that pure wool will not retain any odour should be taken with caution. It certainly will not smell to the same extent as pure polypropylene, but there are many modern synthetics that can now make that claim as well.

 

[SLF]

I would agree with Kanga on this. I carried two Merino short sleeve T's and one long sleeved, the weight was 150. I opted for a 1/4 zip fleece rather than the Merino jacket, I used my rain jacket as the top layer when it was very cold. I walked from 19th April in a very wet and cold Spring. I also carried a lightweight sleeping bag and a silk liner as some of the albergues could be cold enough.
Buen Camino.

I did about the same in May of 2014. While walking, my 150 icebreaker long sleeve shirt and rain jacket to break the wind kept me plenty warm. In the evening I wore an icebreaker short sleeve tee and my icebreaker hoody. I will do the same in May of 2017. I also had a silk liner for my 45° sleeping bag but only needed it a few times because most of the albergues had blankets.

 

[Mark Lee]

Yeah, ditto. Don't bring clothes just for sleeping in. No need for it.

 

[Stivandrer]

My icebreaker inner shirt was a 150 grms quality, was soaked every morning ´caus I had the Icebreaker first, then a looped fleece merino fullsleeved (Woolpower) on top, and over that a running vest with a little ventilation.
Only at 10 o´clock would I reverse the looped merino shirt and lose the wind vest and let it all dry out.
this in late April first of May
Still all the Icebreaker shirt got was an occasional rinse and it was a non-smeller !!

 

[Pong]

I wore my icebreaker 150 for 28 days and washed it twice (washed myself daily)! Did not sweat much, and did not stink. This was independently verified, dougfitz My other layers were a thin but warm cashmere pullover sweater, a lightweight 1/4 zip fleece, a super light pullover wind shirt, a short sleeve merino tee, and my rain Parcho. I also wore a lightweight scarf and used a buff as well. I tend to feel cold, but these layers worked well and I often used all the layers together. I also had a dedicated sleep shirt that could have been used if I needed more warmth. For bottom layers, I had thin tights, a hiking skirt, and long underwear bottoms. Most days I started off with the long bottoms under my skirt, and easily removed them if the day warmed. I plan on repeating this system in 2017. I walked the Francès mid April - May this year. My pack weighed 6-7 kg depending on how much jamon and queso I carried. Don't forget, you can always buy an extra layer if needed. Pack light and Buen Camino!

 

[Purple Backpack]

Went cross country skiing today with beautiful 35 degree F, sunny weather. I wore a new 200 Icebreaker natural colored crew neck, lightweight fleece and Goretex shell. Within half an hour, the sweat was pouring and I smelled like a sheep caught in a week long English drizzle. I've never had a wool shirt do that before and it was really unpleasant. It's getting washed tonight to see if there was some type of chemical treatment on the wool but it's not the first time I've been in close proximity to someone a bit odiferous wearing wool on a warm day. Don't think I'd want to sniff dirty wool socks either...

Addendum a short while later: Washed said shirt. Hung in bathroom. Entire tiny house now smells like flock of wet sheep. Ew(e).

 

[AlongTheAway]

I love this community! Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts, I have found every single one helpful!

I think overall I can take from this:

• No need for the tank tops
• The Icebreaker jacket I was asking about is for the layer commonly taken as a polar fleece for many of you - so that's something for me to consider. Perhaps I will get a polar fleece instead of the zippered Icebreaker.
• Many people sleep in the next day's clothes so sleepwear is not essential. Personally, I'm really attached to the idea of a cosy clean top to wear just for sleep (totally accept I may change my mind of Camino day 2 ) but I take the point of making it a tshirt which could do double duty.

SO, my thinking is now the following for tops:

2 x Icebreaker tshirts (135 for walking & 150 for afternoon/sleeping)
1 x Icebreaker long sleeve top (180)
1 x Icebreaker long sleeve full zip jacket (200) OR polar fleece jacket
1 x Marmot Precip for rain/wind

FYI for bottoms my current thinking is:

1 x Icebreaker lounge pants (afternoons/sleeping)
1 x Northface tights OR 1 x Convertible pants/shorts (I haven't decided yet. I am used to, and prefer tights but I think when the weather is warm I'll appreciate the 2-in-1 aspect of the convertibles. Pong has also given me the idea to consider skirt/tights which could be perfect for me)

But that's a whole other post

In all I am aiming to take no more than 5kg. Thanks for helping me get there!!

 

[AlongTheAway]

Lots a great advice, excellent thread.
As a guy I think a tanktop would be a waste. Sy's right, sleep in some fresh&dry stuff you plan to walk in the next morning.
Lot of your decision making should be based on how much you sweat and your tolerance to cold. You want the merino wool to wick and dry as you walk, rather than creating your own personal sauna. I find the light weight t's are all I need but understand I generally only walk between May and September. The best thing about Merino is unlike cotton or polyester it doesn't stink from perspiration odors after years of repeated abuse and I'm sure there are some who will vouch for me that I'm the expert at that.
I bought the Patagonia nano puff vest for my trip last month to Moratinos, it is wonderful light weight addition to a pack.
My son who is from Denver and an avid outdoors man convince be to buy a Arc'teryx fleece from REI for my recent trip. I would not have survived without it.

Hi biarritzdon, I like the idea of the vest as the combo I usually walk in during the Sydney winter is an icebreaker long sleeve and a puff vest. I hadn't seen vests on many pack lists, I was worried that it would not be 'double duty' enough, that I should take multiple long sleeves to layer as needed instead. Interesting to know you find it works well!

Love the Icebreaker as well! My suggestion for you is less about which pieces you decide to carry for layers but rather how many you take with you.

One of the greatest features of quality Merino wool (as compared to the really cheap stuff you can find in various wholesale stores) is that you can wear it literally for weeks without generating any adverse smells! This was Icebreakers claim so to test it myself I wore the same Icebreaker t-shirt everyday for 32 days one summer at home when I was working around the house and yard. After those 32 days the shirt still didn't smell!! I hand washed it after that and it was plain to see that the shirt was filthy (dirt) but their claims about not smelling really did hold true so when I left for my subsequent spring Camino I just took 2 150 weight Icebreaker shirts (1 for walking, 1 for sleeping) as they dry faster on the odd occasion that they actually need to be washed.

This could save you a small amount of weight and a large amount of money. Have fun deciding and Buen Camino!!

Hi jozero, I'm grateful for your test case, good to hear the positive result! I wear a long sleeve icebreaker in Sydney wintertime for my 5km walk every morning. I decided to just wash it when it smells but then realised I pretty much never had to wash it and had to remind myself to do the normal hygienic thing and throw it in the wash every now and then! I have an icebreaker stockpile from sales and outlets so thankfully won't have to shell out too much for my Camino.

I walked last year from April 14- May 21 and also had extreme cold, rain, sleet and snow. It wasn't really short sleeve (in the daytime) weather until the last 10 days and we did encounter a snow storm at Cruz de Fero on May 12th. So I agree with leaving the tanks at home and I would only take one short sleeve shirt, as I doubt you would wear one in the evening. I would have 3 layers for evening which you can also sleep in, as it can be cold and damp in some of the albergues. For this time of year I also was really glad to have my Ferrino rain poncho (thats not really a poncho.) All of my comments are specific to the time of year you are walking as pilgrims 2 weeks behind me had very different weather.

Hi Susan Peacock, thanks so much for your thoughts as I appreciate the timing aligns with my trip. What are the 3 layers you wear in the evening/sleep? Are they in addition to walking clothes?

 

[AlongTheAway]

I wore my icebreaker 150 for 28 days and washed it twice (washed myself daily)! Did not sweat much, and did not stink. This was independently verified, dougfitz My other layers were a thin but warm cashmere pullover sweater, a lightweight 1/4 zip fleece, a super light pullover wind shirt, a short sleeve merino tee, and my rain Parcho. I also wore a lightweight scarf and used a buff as well. I tend to feel cold, but these layers worked well and I often used all the layers together. I also had a dedicated sleep shirt that could have been used if I needed more warmth. For bottom layers, I had thin tights, a hiking skirt, and long underwear bottoms. Most days I started off with the long bottoms under my skirt, and easily removed them if the day warmed. I plan on repeating this system in 2017. I walked the Francès mid April - May this year. My pack weighed 6-7 kg depending on how much jamon and queso I carried. Don't forget, you can always buy an extra layer if needed. Pack light and Buen Camino!

Thanks Pong, I was trying to decide between hiking tights or convertible pants, really wanting the former but feeling like the latter gave me more temperature options. I hadn't thought of a skirt/tights combo! That could be perfect. What skirt did you walk in?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

If you are considering a skirt, a Forum favorite is the Macabi skirt. It is light weight, shows no dirk, can be work full length or shortened, wicks light rain away, dries in an instant and has the best pockets ever.

Downside: you will look as if you belong to a convent and it is very expensive to ship to Oz. This being said, if you have a friend in the US it could be mailed to and who would then ship it to you, it may work.

Also, while I keep reading here about people sleeping in their next day clothes I have yet to see any one do it. I like you like my lounge wear, used for sleep and perhaps also in the pm/evening for comfort. It may be the leggings and a longsleeve I would wear during the day if I felt I needed extra layers, but certainly not my hicking pants or skirt.

 

[trecile]

I walked in two dresses that I made for the Camino from 160 gsm merino. I also wore them for sleeping for the first couple of weeks until I reached Burgos, where I bought a cheap tank top at Decathlon to sleep in.

 

[Pong]

I love hiking in a skirt and unless the weather is very cold (i.e. winter), that's what I do. I used a skirt I already had, grey, some kind of stretchy indestructible material. Bought at Eastern Mountain Sports, maybe 3 years ago. The only drawback was no pockets, but I fixed that problem by sewing a long narrowish pocket along the front side. You can sort of see it on my avatar - taken on the way up to O Cebreiro. That somewhat stretchy pocket fit my little Michelin Camino de Santiago map/stage book, plus other small bits very well. The skirt didn't dry overnight,but that was not an issue since it did not show dirt and looked (relatively) good no matter what. I wore it every day and only washed it twice also. My long-john bottoms usually dried overnight and I washed those more often, just a hand washing along the way. Skirts for hiking/walking are very practical for temperature control, looking at least halfway decent in cities (more so than convertible pants imho), and make peeing in the wild a breeze (pun intended). Over many years of skirt hiking I have mastered the very practical art of peeing standing up and with backpack on. Try the skirt. There are threads devoted to that subject on the forum, I believe. Whatever clothing you choose, make the layers versatile, lightweight (I weigh all my gear to decide among similar items), and try out your system before your Camino if possible.

 

[Stivandrer]

I wore my icebreaker 150 for 28 days and washed it twice (washed myself daily)! Did not sweat much, and did not stink. This was independently verified, dougfitz

Yet you call yourself PONG just to be on the safe side !!!

 

[kaixo]

Many people sleep in the next day's clothes so sleepwear is not essential. Personally, I'm really attached to the idea of a cosy clean top to wear just for sleep (totally accept I may change my mind of Camino day 2 ) but I take the point of making it a tshirt which could do double duty.

I'll plug the other brand here. I wear a Smartwool cami at night. I like changing too!

My layering consists of Icebreaker 150 tech lite t-shirt, long sleeve Smartwool NTS lite 195, and Outdoor Research rain jacket when necessary. I left my Icebreaker long sleeve full zip jacket 260 (realfleece according to the label) at home, but I walk in the summer months and thus I did not need it. Also, I was super picky about my rain jacket and my sleeping bag...some have really noisy fabric. I know that might sound crazy but...

I have found that my merino wool t-shirts and undergarments do not smell at all, ever! I can't say the same for my heavier layers which do emit an essence of ewe, as mentioned earlier by @Purple Backpack.

For bottoms I like shorts (2 pairs, 1 converts to pants). After shower I wear a lightweight, no wrinkle Isis dress with or with out Icebreaker 150 leggings if cold. Leggings double for nighttime warmth.

You have so many options. Enjoy the process, you will find what combination works best for you.
Buen camino.

 

[Pong]

Stivandrer - Better safe than sorry!

 

[dougfitz]

Did not sweat much, and did not stink. This was independently verified, dougfitz

For those that haven't read every post in detail, no-one has suggested that wool garments will stink, although if you are inclined to ignore basic hygiene practices like washing yourself and your clothes, that is more likely than not. What I have found, and so it seems have others, is that they do retain an odour, and benefit from regular washing. If you base your clothes washing regime on some sniff test, you may find it possible to reduce the frequency of washing, particularly for outer garments. I prefer to wash my base layer garments daily, even if it is just a hand wash and rinse.

 

[Stivandrer]

Verily so, a good habit... I usually need a simple spin to dry the wool, though, in the colder months to make it dry for next morning....
One of the reasons of wools better properties over synthetics is the non-polarity of its fibers whereas the your ordinary gym fabric makes you smell like a wilderbeast. I will take my son as an example, whereas myself...nah!

 

[Lmsundaze]

Icebreaker recommends that its garments not be put in the dryer but "dry rapidly in the shade." I was exposed to bedbugs and washed my icebreaker garments in hot water and put them in the dryer and they came out just fine. I still wear the same things a lot and they look like new. I got melted cheese on my long sleeve top a week ago and thought it was ruined, but the grease came out. Forgot to mention before I also had a pair of lightweight icebreaker leggings I wore under my skirts when needed on Camino -- 2 skirts and the leggings were my only below the waist garments (other than underwear) on the camino.

 

[trecile]

Icebreaker recommends that its garments not be put in the dryer but "dry rapidly in the shade." I was exposed to bedbugs and washed my icebreaker garments in hot water and put them in the dryer and they came out just fine. I still wear the same things a lot and they look like new. I got melted cheese on my long sleeve top a week ago and thought it was ruined, but the grease came out. Forgot to mention before I also had a pair of lightweight icebreaker leggings I wore under my skirts when needed on Camino -- 2 skirts and the leggings were my only below the waist garments (other than underwear) on the camino.

In addition to my two merino dresses I also brought a pair of lightweight merino leggings and a light merino sweater. I also machine washed and dried all of my merino wool clothing when exposed to bedbugs, and they all came out fine.

 

[Pong]

For those that haven't read every post in detail, no-one has suggested that wool garments will stink, although if you are inclined to ignore basic hygiene practices like washing yourself and your clothes, that is more likely than not. What I have found, and so it seems have others, is that they do retain an odour, and benefit from regular washing. If you base your clothes washing regime on some sniff test, you may find it possible to reduce the frequency of washing, particularly for outer garments. I prefer to wash my base layer garments daily, even if it is just a hand wash and rinse.

Just teasing!

 

[Robo]

There are always some interesting debates on clothing. A bit like footwear and packs We are all different though. Here are two perspectives....

My Wife Pat. Loves her Icebreaker Merino shirts. She carried three different weights! And used all three at various times. 150, 180 and about 230 I think. Kept her really warm. She walks 'cold'. Partly I guess as she is originally from SE Asia and finds anything less than 20C cold!

Me. I walk 'hot', being from the UK originally and also I carry a bit more 'insulation'. I can't walk in Merino...at all. It's like being in a 'sweat suit'. I use 120 weight, but only as an evening shirt. My walking shirt is a tech nylon one. I usually just walk in that, with my rain jacket for wind protection if required. Maybe a couple of times adding a fleece early morning. (we walk April/May)

One thing that I did find was that the Icebreaker shirts were not hard wearing at all. Particularly the lighter weights. We only walked about 12 days this year and used them another 2 weeks back packing around Europe. By the end the shirts were getting holes in them. Icebreaker offered to replace them if we went back to the store, but I never got around to it.

It may have been partly due to the washing regime. We washed them after each wear, using a Scrubba Washing Bag, which I have to say I found very effective. But the 'nodules' on the Scrubba, or perhaps the zips on the shirts, may have caused damage in the washing process, who knows.

So two opposing views. Pat loves them, I feel like I'm in a Sauna wearing them... I guess if anyone is thinking of trying them, the best thing is to get one......and trial it....

What we both agreed however, was that they are warm!

 

[C clearly]

Also, while I keep reading here about people sleeping in their next day clothes I have yet to see any one do it. I like you like my lounge wear, used for sleep and perhaps also in the pm/evening for comfort. It may be the leggings and a longsleeve I would wear during the day if I felt I needed extra layers, but certainly not my hiking pants or skirt.

I also generally prefer to keep my hiking clothes distinct from my evening clothes, although a fleece might serve either. That way I always have a fairly clean dry outfit to wear in the evenings and in my sleeping bag, and I don't need need to wash my walking clothes so often. Of course there are exceptions, mainly due to extreme weather, but that is my routine.

 

[zzotte]

April/May you could have some cold days specially morning or rainy days, my opinion is 2 short sleeve (150), one long sleeve (200) (I personally like smartwool) just a matter of preference, one jacket like a patagonia R1 or similar synthetic no wool for outer shell its heavy , a umbrella and light weight rain jacket, if you run cold a extra long sleeve 120 rab or similar synthetic like a capilene but it has to be real close to your skin. I use this system year around except that in the winter months I add a montbel puffy.

zzotte

 

[Stivandrer]

There are always some interesting debates on clothing. A bit like footwear and packs We are all different though. Here are two perspectives....


One thing that I did find was that the Icebreaker shirts were not hard wearing at all. Particularly the lighter weights. We only walked about 12 days this year and used them another 2 weeks back packing around Europe. By the end the shirts were getting holes in them. Icebreaker offered to replace them if we went back to the store, but I never got around to it.

It may have been partly due to the washing regime. We washed them after each wear, using a Scrubba Washing Bag, which I have to say I found very effective. But the 'nodules' on the Scrubba, or perhaps the zips on the shirts, may have caused damage in the washing process, who knows.

I agree on the making holes business. I came home with my trusty 150 grms longsleeved icebreaker with what I termed to be a "golf shirt" as it had 24 holes. But I confess it had been drenched, wringed and subsequently torn. Maybe it´s a man thing.....
It has no extra fibers, so IF you want a perfect tearproof clothing in the merino section , go to the damned Swedes who make Woolpower in flat and looped quality and in different weights. We damn the Swedes; as our neighbours they make brilliant products. These merinoes are made for the military and wash at up to 60 dgrs centigrade!!
Do look them up.

 

[Robo]

I agree on the making holes business. I came home with my trusty 150 grms longsleeved icebreaker with what I termed to be a "golf shirt" as it had 24 holes. But I confess it had been drenched, wringed and subsequently torn. Maybe it´s a man thing.....
It has no extra fibers, so IF you want a perfect tearproof clothing in the merino section , go to the damned Swedes who make Woolpower in flat and looped quality and in different weights. We damn the Swedes; as our neighbours they make brilliant products. These merinoes are made for the military and wash at up to 60 dgrs centigrade!!
Do look them up.

They look really good. But there was no weight information on the products. Any idea how the Lite compare with the IceBreaker weights?

 

[wayfarer]

They look really good. But there was no weight information on the products. Any idea how the Lite compare with the IceBreaker weights?

The weight is next to the product. In "base layers" the Item CREWNECK 200, the 200 refers to the weight.

 

[Stivandrer]

the Lite versions are similar to icebreaker , the looped fleece versions are i 200, 400 and 600 grms quality.
http://woolpower.se/en/shop/?filters=product_cat[55]

 

[SabsP]

I agree on the making holes business. I came home with my trusty 150 grms longsleeved icebreaker with what I termed to be a "golf shirt" as it had 24 holes. But I confess it had been drenched, wringed and subsequently torn. Maybe it´s a man thing.....
It has no extra fibers, so IF you want a perfect tearproof clothing in the merino section , go to the damned Swedes who make Woolpower in flat and looped quality and in different weights. We damn the Swedes; as our neighbours they make brilliant products. These merinoes are made for the military and wash at up to 60 dgrs centigrade!!
Do look them up.

I just tested my new lite short sleeved Woolpower and it is brilliant.
Was minus five Celsius this morning and layering worked perfect.
So lite woolpower
Then 200 long sleeved Icebreaker
Then the lightweight Haglofs fleece
Then my Marmot precip jacket.

Some smell though but I will not go into hormonal details being on the wrong side of 45...

 

[hnguyen]

Dear AlongTheAway,
I concur with the general trend of most of the replies. I started on April 2nd from SJPP and arrived in SdC in second week of May. On the way I encountered all kinds of weather conditions: snow, sleet, rain, wind, sun... I think your list of uppers is too long. You can probably eliminate at least one of the short and/or long sleeve. I left my Merino 230 half zip long sleeve home and only took a 150 short and 150 long sleeve t-shirts on the trip - and was fine (for layering I had a light Pantagonia down vest, a Merino jacket and an OR Helium II windbreaker/rain jacket.) To keep weight down (11 pounds including the backpack but not the water or food) I only brought a silk sleeping bag liner. On the couple of nights when it was cold in the albergue I just slept with my hiking pants and jacket on and was just fine. Good luck with your planning and training. Buen camino!

 

[trecile]

I really liked my Uniqlo lightweight merino wool cardigan. I wore it by itself in the cooler evenings, or under this Uniqlo lightweight hoodie. I bought the hoodie thinking that I'd wear it for sun protection, but I ended up just relying on sunscreen. These two layers were a few ounces more than a fleece hoodie, but I felt that they were more versatile than one piece.

 

[dougfitz]

I agree on the making holes business. I came home with my trusty 150 grms longsleeved icebreaker with what I termed to be a "golf shirt" as it had 24 holes. But I confess it had been drenched, wringed and subsequently torn. Maybe it´s a man thing.....
It has no extra fibers, so IF you want a perfect tearproof clothing in the merino section , go to the damned Swedes who make Woolpower in flat and looped quality and in different weights. We damn the Swedes; as our neighbours they make brilliant products. These merinoes are made for the military and wash at up to 60 dgrs centigrade!!
Do look them up.

I don't think it is necessarily a man thing so much as a difference in the mechanical properties of pure wool vs a synthetic or synthetic blend. The latter have far greater tensile strength, and won't break as easily when snagged. Wool yarn is not as strong, and holes form in the knit when a thread breaks. With similar usage, none of my synthetic or synthetic and wool blend garments have holes with up to five years of use. Pure wool garments seem to only last that many months before becoming holey!

 

[Purple Backpack]

Wet sheep update from post far above: Wore aforementioned shirt today after one washing. It was much colder so didn't sweat but there was no baaaaahd smell either. So maybe it was just a weird first time wearing thing and washing fixed it.

Re: hol(e)y shirts. I find tiny holes where the wool shirts rub against jean/pant buttons. I started wearing flat buckle webbed belts and that seems to solve the problem. If anyone out there has come up with a system for covering metal pant buttons, would love to hear it!

 

[Stivandrer]

@ purple backpack; baaaaaaahd, indeed...even my merino Buff got snagged into my zipper a few times...
I love my icebreker products but have now only the socks that are unsurpassed.
Have moved on to products that do contain some other fibres ; HH Warm for first layer and said woolpower in different products. Both lines last a little longer..

 

[CaptNoglos]

Hi everyone

Thanks to all the advice on the forums and the excellent post Christmas sales I am making progress on my Camino gear (including two pairs of shoes being tested and just bought my backpack today!)

Now moving on to the top part of me. As a big Icebreaker fan I am thinking about going with the following layers:

2 x Icebreaker tank top (150 & 150 - second is to sleep in)
2 x Icebreaker tshirt (135 & 150 - second is to alternate while washing)
2 x Icebreaker long sleeve top (180 & ? haven't bought a second yet, it's to alternate while washing)
1 x Icebreaker long sleeve full zip jacket (?)
1 x Marmot Precip for rain/wind

My big question is - what weight should I get for the long sleeve full zip jacket? There is an Icebreaker sale on at the moment and I have a choice of 200, 230 or 260.

I will be walking from 8 April 2017. I checked the average temps for April (3-6 to 14-16c) and May (6-10 to 16-22c). I tend to feel the cold easily when I'm still, but heat up when I walk. Based on this I'm leaning toward the 230 or 260 but I don't have a lot of experience (yet!) with layering while being active, I'm wondering if I should go for lighter... I guess layering is best. Just wanted some opinions on what the experts think

Thanks very much in advance!!

Interesting comments and some very helpful replies, for me as well. We are planning to walk CF April-June and have found on previous walks, that a loose fitting shirt or long sleeve top works really well as a balance between cool, warm and just right. The sweating mentioned in other posts only really happens for us if the clothing is tighter fitting. So our walking clothes have been long sleeve / or short sleeve (Kathmandu do some great stuff), lightweight fleece and waterproof top walking jacket (great fan of The North Face), with lightweight trousers from Craighopper. All three layers are rarely used together. However we have started walking with three layers, then peeled them off as we warm up, often no more than a mile or so. I do like merino base layers, they are really warm, but you get too hot in them if you are walking all of the time. They only come into play if it is really cold, or there is a strong cold wind. I've used mine more for keeping warm initially, and also when I have been sailing, as you do sit about a lot more!

 

[AlongTheAway]

Dear AlongTheAway,
I concur with the general trend of most of the replies. I started on April 2nd from SJPP and arrived in SdC in second week of May. On the way I encountered all kinds of weather conditions: snow, sleet, rain, wind, sun... I think your list of uppers is too long. You can probably eliminate at least one of the short and/or long sleeve. I left my Merino 230 half zip long sleeve home and only took a 150 short and 150 long sleeve t-shirts on the trip - and was fine (for layering I had a light Pantagonia down vest, a Merino jacket and an OR Helium II windbreaker/rain jacket.) To keep weight down (11 pounds including the backpack but not the water or food) I only brought a silk sleeping bag liner. On the couple of nights when it was cold in the albergue I just slept with my hiking pants and jacket on and was just fine. Good luck with your planning and training. Buen camino!

Thanks for your input hnguyn, good to know what top layers were adequate for your experience facing snow/sleet/rain/wind/sun. I note you left your 230 merino at home, what was the weight of the merino jacket you took? How often did you find yourself wearing your vest?

 

[Purple Backpack]

Have moved on to products that do contain some other fibres ; HH Warm for first layer and said woolpower in different products. Both lines last a little longer..

Just looked at HH and Woolpower websites and products seem the perfect mix. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Oregon's Mark]

I did about the same in May of 2014. While walking, my 150 icebreaker long sleeve shirt and rain jacket to break the wind kept me plenty warm. In the evening I wore an icebreaker short sleeve tee and my icebreaker hoody. I will do the same in May of 2017. I also had a silk liner for my 45° sleeping bag but only needed it a few times because most of the albergues had blankets.

Fellow Oregonian, I plan to start about May 20. What day did you start in May? I am planning to take only a sleep sack, counting on blankets to keep me warm. Do you think that is a mistake? Hiking, I find that I warm up rather quickly, especially with a pack on my back, so I theorize that keeping warm shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Stivandrer]

@Purple bp:
just heard from woolpower tonight;
yes the lite versions are 200 grms/m2 quality !!

Damned effective Swedes !!

 

[Oregon's Mark]

I really liked my Uniqlo lightweight merino wool cardigan. I wore it by itself in the cooler evenings, or under this Uniqlo lightweight hoodie. I bought the hoodie thinking that I'd wear it for sun protection, but I ended up just relying on sunscreen. These two layers were a few ounces more than a fleece hoodie, but I felt that they were more versatile than one piece.[/QUOT

I really liked my Uniqlo lightweight merino wool cardigan. I wore it by itself in the cooler evenings, or under this Uniqlo lightweight hoodie. I bought the hoodie thinking that I'd wear it for sun protection, but I ended up just relying on sunscreen. These two layers were a few ounces more than a fleece hoodie, but I felt that they were more versatile than one piece.

 

[Oregon's Mark]

Trecile, you seem to be the most weight-conscious of posters. Do you use a sleeping bag? I plan to leave St. Jean in late May, and I am wanting to use a sleep sack. What are your thoughts?

 

[trecile]

Trecile, you seem to be the most weight-conscious of posters. Do you use a sleeping bag? I plan to leave St. Jean in late May, and I am wanting to use a sleep sack. What are your thoughts?

I used a silk liner and a 7 ounce down blanket from Montbell. It just covered my body, but when tucked inside the silk liner kept me nice and warm on the few cold nights at the end of my Camino. Together my sleep gear was only 12 ounces.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I've walked April/May and never needed a jacket except for a windbreaker/raincoat lightweight type jacket to go over my layers.
Like I said in a prior post today, that is usually peeled off within the first half hour, no matter the weather.
There WAS a June a couple of years ago that was FREEZING and I had all my layers on.

And really, you don't need technical gear. . . just take what's in your closet!?

 

[Colette Z]

I did about the same in May of 2014. While walking, my 150 icebreaker long sleeve shirt and rain jacket to break the wind kept me plenty warm. In the evening I wore an icebreaker short sleeve tee and my icebreaker hoody. I will do the same in May of 2017. I also had a silk liner for my 45° sleeping bag but only needed it a few times because most of the albergues had blankets.

Thanks, I'll be walking CF about March 25th 2017 (not rushing). I heard I'll need a sleeping bag since little or no heat in albergues at that time. Please recommend sleeping bag criteria (temperature, weight, etc ) and why do you take a silk liner? I heard a silk liner and pillow case will keep bed bugs away? Thank you!

 

[CaptNoglos]

Thanks, I'll be walking CF about March 25th 2017 (not rushing). I heard I'll need a sleeping bag since little or no heat in albergues at that time. Please recommend sleeping bag criteria (temperature, weight, etc ) and why do you take a silk liner? I heard a silk liner and pillow case will keep bed bugs away? Thank you!

I don't know if the same where you live, but in the UK sleeping bags are described as 1,2 ,3 , or 4 season. 4 Season is def camping in the winter (ours are not that cold in the Southern England). 1 season is indoors or camping in the summer, with or without heating. 2-3 tend to be used for Spring / Autumn camping. After experimentation I have a 1 season bag + silk liner for inside use, heated or not. I would be surprised if you needed anything heavier. If we have been cold, or thought we might be, we just leave more clothes on. Hope that helps.

 

[Colette Z]

Thanks CaptNoglos, what is the purpose of the silk liner? At our mountaineering stores in Ottawa they sell for $150 CAD. Just trying to keep cost and extras to a reasonable level. Please explain. I will go for an indoor fully zip opening for my March-April 2017 walk.

 

[dougfitz]

what is the purpose of the silk liner?

While this might be a bit off topic, there is an explanation for why one might use a liner here. There is also an explanation about the differences between silk and cotton, etc.

There is no evidence that silk has any deterrent effect on bed bugs.

 

[Stivandrer]

the silk liner I bought was veeery thin & flimsy, and the heat properties count for some of its cost. I prefer much more light merino wool longjohns, skiing type, and a merino longsleeved nightshirt, which is also the secondary shirt. Most of your items must have a secondary function in your pack, as a rule...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Thanks CaptNoglos, what is the purpose of the silk liner? At our mountaineering stores in Ottawa they sell for $150 CAD. Just trying to keep cost and extras to a reasonable level. Please explain. I will go for an indoor fully zip opening for my March-April 2017 walk.

Colette, take a look at these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-100-Pure-Mulberry-Silk-Single-Sleeping-Bag-Liner-Travel-Sheet-Sleepsack/322306748733?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=38530&meid=ca644a5417a74abbb32d80a5e7f360c6&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=131897648696

Just make sure they are really silk and that the size suits you as they sometimes are a bit narrow. You can use them as a sleeping bag on their own, late May into late September on the CF for example, or as a liner with a sleeping bag to add some warmth and keep the sleeping bag clean. Silk is great because it adds warmth but also allows you to stay cool in hot summer nights (I used to use an egyptian cotton blanket at home in the summer and it was too hot. I now sleep with a mulberry silk duvet and sleep like a baby, all covered up even in July and August).

 

[Oregon's Mark]

While this might be a bit off topic, there is an explanation for why one might use a liner here. There is also an explanation about the differences between silk and cotton, etc.

There is no evidence that silk has any deterrent effect on bed bugs.

Thanks, Doug.

 

[CaptNoglos]

Thanks CaptNoglos, what is the purpose of the silk liner? At our mountaineering stores in Ottawa they sell for $150 CAD. Just trying to keep cost and extras to a reasonable level. Please explain. I will go for an indoor fully zip opening for my March-April 2017 walk.

I simply found it much nicer and more comfortable with a silk liner than without. The website links others have posted give more info. It also gave me the option of just using the liner if I was too hot, as I do get cold just sleeping on top of the bag. That is a massive price though, I would not spend that much personally, in the UK they are a third of that. This link might help as well, [URL="https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/sleeping-bags.44697/"]sleeping bags[/URL]

 

[Lynn Edwards]

Colette, take a look at these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-100-Pure-Mulberry-Silk-Single-Sleeping-Bag-Liner-Travel-Sheet-Sleepsack/322306748733?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=38530&meid=ca644a5417a74abbb32d80a5e7f360c6&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=131897648696

Just make sure they are really silk and that the size suits you as they sometimes are a bit narrow. You can use them as a sleeping bag on their own, late May into late September on the CF for example, or as a liner with a sleeping bag to add some warmth and keep the sleeping bag clean. Silk is great because it adds warmth but also allows you to stay cool in hot summer nights (I used to use an egyptian cotton blanket at home in the summer and it was too hot. I now sleep with a mulberry silk duvet and sleep like a baby, all covered up even in July and August).

Thanks for great link. Except for size and weight concerns what else should I be looking at? Your ebay link showed silk liners for as little as $7 ... $25.... to $41! The specifications all look about the same. (I am 5'3" so length is not a concern.) Vietnamese mulberry silk seems to be most common. Do you have any experience to advise me on this price dilemma?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Thanks for great link. Except for size and weight concerns what else should I be looking at? Your ebay link showed silk liners for as little as $7 ... $25.... to $41! The specifications all look about the same. (I am 5'3" so length is not a concern.) Vietnamese mulberry silk seems to be most common. Do you have any experience to advise me on this price dilemma?

I have not (yet) bought one. When looking through the different option on Ebay be careful as the small print sometime tells you it's not really silk. This couls explain the price difference. Push comes to shove, email the vendor for more details. Also look at the width: I like a roomy bag so I would opt for a wider one.

 

[trecile]

I bought a double sized silk liner from TrekSilk, who also sell on ebay. I cut it down to a generous single width, about one meter wide, and added a zipper. The cheaper ones are not real silk.

 

[katie@camino]

I always go for the lightest and finest - I find even in the coldest weather than layered light garments are plenty warm enough, provided I have a windbreaker, in my case a Patagonia Houdini. You have the Precip.

With what you already have I doubt you need the long sleeve full zip jacket, although it might be nice for evenings. If you do buy one then you certainly don't need the second long-sleeve Icebreaker top as well. And you probably only need one tank top. In early April you are unlikely to wear the tank top by itself, and you will heat up when walking so it will be too warm to wear as underwear. A merino t-shirt and long sleeve top makes perfect sense, with the Precip over the top if it is windy or cold.

Hi Kanga,
I am looking for a waterproof jacket for a Winter Camino - i have been thinking of getting a Marmot Precip but i already own a Patagonia Houdini - do they do the same job?

 

[Kanga]

Hi Kanga,
I am looking for a waterproof jacket for a Winter Camino - i have been thinking of getting a Marmot Precip but i already own a Patagonia Houdini - do they do the same job?

No definitely not - the Houdini is a super-light wind breaker - but it is not waterproof. The Marmot Precip has a DWR coating it is waterproof (provided the DWR coating is in good condition).

I would not walk a camino without waterproof gear.

 

[katie@camino]

No definitely not - the Houdini is a super-light wind breaker - but it is not waterproof. The Marmot Precip has a DWR coating it is waterproof (provided the DWR coating is in good condition).

I would not walk a camino without waterproof gear.

Thanks kanga. Are there particular items/brands you would suggest/recommend? I'm not use to walking in the rain at all.

 

[Kanga]

Thanks kanga. Are there particular items/brands you would suggest/recommend? I'm not use to walking in the rain at all.

It depends of course when you are walking. In September last year on the Camino de Madrid and the CF I did not get a drop of rain the entire walk. In June July you may well find the same thing and maybe you could get away with an emergency light poncho. But certainly In spring and autumn I've had other caminos where it has rained for days.

I'm probably not the best to give advice on buying new rain-gear - I personally do not like waterproof jackets - a pain to take on and off (and the need to remove pack each time), and I get sweaty inside them. Instead I have a very old and roomy Altus Raincoat (with room for my pack under it), a great big huge thing that covers me and my pack down to my ankles, with lots of room for air flow. It is as ugly as sin but it works pretty well. Still can get sweaty, but is the best I've found so far. You can buy new Altus Raincoats in Spain - much lighter weight than mine - and much prettier, but I don't know how good. See this : http://zorba.es/home/207-altus-poncho-atmospheric-s3.html

If you would prefer a jacket - and it has the virtue of being more versatile as a garment - the Marmot Precip has the reputation of being very good value - I found this article on Outdoor Gear Lab that may help:

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/clothing-womens/best-rain-jacket-womens