Tia Valeria
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Some of us may have saved for a long while to do their pilgrimage and won't be able to do it again so may not be able to "return" two or three times. Whilst I hesitate to say it... has nothing changed? Can only the rich afford to be "godly"?
Anna if it helps any, I walked the Camino from St. Jean to Santiago to mark my 80th birthday this year. 800 kms seemed quite daunting, but the desire to do this was intense. For me it was a walk in gratitude for all that I have in my life (with not a lot of money) and yes, I had the time. Also, with careful financial planning and doing without certain things I was able to bring it to fruition. As has been written here many times, we all do our own Camino in our own way. Why not just walk the distance that you feel you could complete; Compostela or not - and just see what it reveals to you. I don't mean to over simplify, but you do seem keen on walking.Some are neither money, nor time rich. Like @anna pugh one of our friends, a devout catholic, would not have the money to keep returning to the Camino and she certainly would not be able to find more than a week to walk as she is a carer. She would love to be able to make her Camino, but age too is a factor as she is in her early 70s. So it is not just myself I am thinking about when I grieve at the thought of the 'qualifying' distance being lengthened.
As before Anna - Buen Camino on what is a fairly challenging, if shorter, route.
Having first walked the CF and later the CI as well as some other pilgrimage walks, I would make two comments:Anna. I can't comment on the time you have available for your Camino but will say that the last 100k are not nearly as rewarding, in my view it is because of the coach loads of pilgrims dropped off each day to walk a section. As for your ability to walk, I think everyone is slightly overawed by the idea of walking such a long way. You meet and make wonderful friends and settle down into a pace which suits everyone. Someone commented it's only for the rich, I'm not rich and walked for 65 days, it worked out at less than €30 a day.
Of course not!Can only the rich afford to be "godly"?
. . . . . . . . As time passes and I see and feel the pains and tribulations of others less fortunate than I, all I can do is hope that their opportunities are not diminished by any changes.
Spot on ... when people ask me what it was like I get down my Credential and tell stories around the stamps, every stamp is a memory of people and places . My compestlas are shoved Away in drawers somewhere
I would like to think that if Rebekah is part of this group it is one that the cathedral would listen to.To put all this in context the 'extra distance' suggestion was apparently one paper presented at the conference..... by a 'non-cathedral' group, so probably not very high on the cathedral's agenda.
That's wonderful for you. I'm not "being dropped off somewhere" and if it helps I am English so am making my Pilgrimage along the camino ingles. I will never have 65 days to make a pilgrimage. When I retire in a few years time I won't have property to sell or a retirement insurance so I need to do this whilst I am working and so can afford to be off work and pay my rent whilst I walk. Not everyone who wants to make the pilgrimage sees it as trek like going over the himalayas. I don't consider this a holiday but a sacrifice but don't judge how much fun others will have from the experience. I won't be in sackcloth and ashes but it's not an alternative from 3 weeks away on safariAnna. I can't comment on the time you have available for your Camino but will say that the last 100k are not nearly as rewarding, in my view it is because of the coach loads of pilgrims dropped off each day to walk a section. As for your ability to walk, I think everyone is slightly overawed by the idea of walking such a long way. You meet and make wonderful friends and settle down into a pace which suits everyone. Someone commented it's only for the rich, I'm not rich and walked for 65 days, it worked out at less than €30 a day.
With respect I don't think it's still quite understood. Those who walk from St. Jean get their Compostela, but also, and only if they wish for one, can receive a 2nd certificate for distance, but are charged a a couple of Euros. Several pilgrims were sharing their delight about this at the Pilgrim Office.No @Anemone del Camino - sorry - as I understand it the 'certificate of distance' is only issued to those completing the minimum distance and with the completed, stamped by the pilgrims' office, credencial; or on production of the relevent compostela.
To put all this in context the 'extra distance' suggestion was apparently one paper presented at the conference..... by a 'non-cathedral' group, so probably not very high on the cathedral's agenda.
I agree with you @movinmaggie - it is not always understood.With respect I don't think it's still quite understood. Those who walk from St. Jean get their Compostela, but also, and only if they wish for one, can receive a 2nd certificate for distance, but are charged a a couple of Euros. Several pilgrims were sharing their delight about this at the Pilgrim Office.
Anna, I think that you may be over estimating what it takes to walk 100km. The average age on the Camino has got to be well into the 50s, and the vast majority are people who are walking it are sedentary and have never done so ething like this before. With a good pair of shoes and as little as you can manage to carry this will not be difficult. The expense especially if you are coming from outside of Europe is no doubt an issue, but not the distance unless you face somesort of handicap. Don't worry so much about it.[/QUOTE
Thank you Anemone.. I am nearly 60 , not in the best of health and have never done any kind of exercise previously and have a very sedentry lifestyle. Even with my one a day week (my day off) practice training 6 hours continous walking I'm only covering 15kms.. 100 feels like the moon.. I commute 100 miles a day and know I could never walk that far.. which is why the Ingles seems so perfect for me in many ways. It's just sad when it sounds as though so many people are dismissive of this kind of effort that some people make
I will bet that virtually none of us had even heard of the compostela when we embarked on our planning for our first Camino. Why is its availability or its requirements now so crucially important? As I read through some of these posts, it almost sounds as if some people are arguing that taking away the compostela for the 100 km walkers would mean that those people can no longer walk the Camino from Sarria. If that's the place where you are best able to start, due to time constraints or physical ability, you will always be able to start there.
I guess I just don't see, like so many others have said on this thread, why the rules about the compostela is a make or break aspect of walking to Santiago. How would not being able to get a piece of paper have any impact at all on the value of the walk, the challenges you overcame to do it, and the satisfaction and gratitude you experienced walking into Santiago, no matter where you started?
I think this is speculative nonsense. There might be a problem with the numbers of pilgrims on the CF starting at Sarria, and addressing that might be a worthy objective. But I think there are other options to achieving this than increasing the minimum distance. And I think an underlying assumption in looking at these options is that they are needed by genuine and sincere pilgrims who have chosen to do the minimum distance for reasons only they can know. In my view, for us to speculate that their motivations are other than genuine and sincere is both unnecessary and unhelpful. Let the cathedral authorities worry about that and how they might address it if they think it is a problem, but don't make it a motivation for the changes being proposed.The compostela is now a holiday souvenir for which people will do as little as possible to get it and unfortunately that trophy chase has really changed what used to be a wonderful experience.
... The compostela is now a holiday souvenir for which people will do as little as possible to get it and unfortunately that trophy chase has really changed what used to be a wonderful experience. ...
The compostela is now a holiday souvenir for which people will do as little as possible to get it.
Yes is it an issue which seems to provoke selfish and judgemental reactions. That was certainly the case with me but over time my views have changed. I was very proud of my first Camino. I walked 1000 kms from Seville in winter. It changed my life and I’ve been walking the Camino routes ever since. Whilst this has been a truly spiritual experience in many ways I have also at times experienced a feeling of having “done better” than others who had walked for less kilometres or had walked in better weather. In the beginning I carried everything on my back and slept in albergues. I felt a far better pilgrim than those who used luggage forwarding services and slept in hotels. I went to Mass whenever it was available........
Yes is it an issue which seems to provoke selfish and judgemental reactions. That was certainly the case with me but over time my views have changed. I was very proud of my first Camino. I walked 1000 kms from Seville in winter. It changed my life and I’ve been walking the Camino routes ever since. Whilst this has been a truly spiritual experience in many ways I have also at times experienced a feeling of having “done better” than others who had walked for less kilometres or had walked in better weather. In the beginning I carried everything on my back and slept in albergues. I felt a far better pilgrim than those who used luggage forwarding services and slept in hotels. I went to Mass whenever it was available and often found I was the only one of the pilgrims who had arrived who was there. “Call themselves pilgrims? Where are they?” I privately thought. I walked every step of the way and thought less of those who skipped a bit, or got the bus because they were tired, or missed out what they described as an ugly section. And cyclists! Judgemental - oh yes!
Being here in Santiago now for some years I’ve met many who have come for different reasons and used different ways to get here. Some walked long distances, some short. Some cycled or drove or came with a parish group on a bus, some sailed into Coruña on a great cruise ship and came by bus to crowd the Pilgrims’ Mass and then returned immediately to catch the afternoon tide. Amongst this throng are people with different motives - faith, sport, recreation, holiday-making. So where are the “pilgrims”?
My conclusion is that being a “pilgrim” is nothing to do with the Compostela or how we get here but rather what we feel in our hearts, in that mystical part of us which senses the work of the Divine in the journey which we make.
In my view everyone who defines themselves as such is a pilgrim to the Tomb of Santiago. And I believe there is no such thing as a superior or inferior pilgrim. Like religions there are different roads to the Kingdom and different ways of being a pilgrim to Santiago. I abhor pejorative labels like “quickie pilgrims” because it implies an elitist superiority based on what – miles walked?
At the moment everyone arriving in Santiago can get a Certificate of one kind or another from the Cathedral. The Compostela for those who walk or cycle the requisite distance, a Certificate of Welcome for those who travelled the requisite distance for reasons other than spiritual and a Visitors Certificate for those who have visited the Tome of the Saint. The three look remarkably similar! And of course for those who qualify for the Compostela there is a distance certificate which records the kms walked and the starting point. I have to say that given that none of these Certificates bestows anything other than being a certificate recording arrival in Santiago I am quickly coming to the conclusion there should only be one "Compostela" for everyone!
In the current debate there seems to be two points in contention: how to separate and recognise in some special way the longer distance walkers from others and what to do about the very busy stretch from Sarria to Santiago.
I am ambivalent about the first question: Why would I as a pilgrim who walked 1000 kms want a better/different certificate than a fellow pilgrim who walked 500 or 100 kms? But I can understand that some people might. I suspect the cathedral will not produce a “long distance certificate” for walking pilgrims but perhaps FICS might. Why not?
Secondly it seems to me that the problem of the business of the final 100 kms is because of lack of marketing of the other routes and the lack of building enough infrastructure to support pilgrim numbers.
Finally – a few months ago I met three sets of pilgrims almost all at the same time. The first was a man with a physical disability who had walked from France. He said he was a disabled athlete and had enjoyed the Camino but he didn’t believe in God and wouldn't attend the Pilgrims' Mass. The second was a young woman who had come with a parish group on the bus from Santander. She had collected petitions to Saint James and was here to lay these with her prayers at the Tomb. Last was a family of a pilgrim who had died on the Way to Santiago. They flew here to reconnect in some way with a lost parent. To think and pray and just be around the places their parent had been. There is a certificate for each of them if they want it. Are any pilgrims better than others – who am I to judge?
I hope everyone has a very happy and peaceful New Year.
John
Thank you for this beautiful post John.Yes is it an issue which seems to provoke selfish and judgemental reactions. That was certainly the case with me but over time my views have changed. I was very proud of my first Camino. I walked 1000 kms from Seville in winter. It changed my life and I’ve been walking the Camino routes ever since. Whilst this has been a truly spiritual experience in many ways I have also at times experienced a feeling of having “done better” than others who had walked for less kilometres or had walked in better weather. In the beginning I carried everything on my back and slept in albergues. I felt a far better pilgrim than those who used luggage forwarding services and slept in hotels. I went to Mass whenever it was available and often found I was the only one of the pilgrims who had arrived who was there. “Call themselves pilgrims? Where are they?” I privately thought. I walked every step of the way and thought less of those who skipped a bit, or got the bus because they were tired, or missed out what they described as an ugly section. And cyclists! Judgemental - oh yes!
Being here in Santiago now for some years I’ve met many who have come for different reasons and used different ways to get here. Some walked long distances, some short. Some cycled or drove or came with a parish group on a bus, some sailed into Coruña on a great cruise ship and came by bus to crowd the Pilgrims’ Mass and then returned immediately to catch the afternoon tide. Amongst this throng are people with different motives - faith, sport, recreation, holiday-making. So where are the “pilgrims”?
My conclusion is that being a “pilgrim” is nothing to do with the Compostela or how we get here but rather what we feel in our hearts, in that mystical part of us which senses the work of the Divine in the journey which we make.
In my view everyone who defines themselves as such is a pilgrim to the Tomb of Santiago. And I believe there is no such thing as a superior or inferior pilgrim. Like religions there are different roads to the Kingdom and different ways of being a pilgrim to Santiago. I abhor pejorative labels like “quickie pilgrims” because it implies an elitist superiority based on what – miles walked?
At the moment everyone arriving in Santiago can get a Certificate of one kind or another from the Cathedral. The Compostela for those who walk or cycle the requisite distance, a Certificate of Welcome for those who travelled the requisite distance for reasons other than spiritual and a Visitors Certificate for those who have visited the Tome of the Saint. The three look remarkably similar! And of course for those who qualify for the Compostela there is a distance certificate which records the kms walked and the starting point. I have to say that given that none of these Certificates bestows anything other than being a certificate recording arrival in Santiago I am quickly coming to the conclusion there should only be one "Compostela" for everyone!
In the current debate there seems to be two points in contention: how to separate and recognise in some special way the longer distance walkers from others and what to do about the very busy stretch from Sarria to Santiago.
I am ambivalent about the first question: Why would I as a pilgrim who walked 1000 kms want a better/different certificate than a fellow pilgrim who walked 500 or 100 kms? But I can understand that some people might. I suspect the cathedral will not produce a “long distance certificate” for walking pilgrims but perhaps FICS might. Why not?
Secondly it seems to me that the problem of the business of the final 100 kms is because of lack of marketing of the other routes and the lack of building enough infrastructure to support pilgrim numbers.
Finally – a few months ago I met three sets of pilgrims almost all at the same time. The first was a man with a physical disability who had walked from France. He said he was a disabled athlete and had enjoyed the Camino but he didn’t believe in God and wouldn't attend the Pilgrims' Mass. The second was a young woman who had come with a parish group on the bus from Santander. She had collected petitions to Saint James and was here to lay these with her prayers at the Tomb. Last was a family of a pilgrim who had died on the Way to Santiago. They flew here to reconnect in some way with a lost parent. To think and pray and just be around the places their parent had been. There is a certificate for each of them if they want it. Are any pilgrims better than others – who am I to judge?
I hope everyone has a very happy and peaceful New Year.
John
So Johnnie - how can we fix this error in their education??? Happy New Year!Alas Tom the canons of the Cathedral don't read the posts on this forum.
So Johnnie - how can we fix this error in their education??? Happy New Year!
So Johnnie - how can we fix this error in their education??? Happy New Year!
I hope this is not too off topic, but I just wanted some clarity about the Pilgrims Passport. I am walking my first Camino April 2016. I am assuming I can order it from the Shop on this forum. I am meeting some friends in Sarria and they will walk only Sarria to Santiago. Can I order all three passports from the forum shop? And this is the passport we carry with us and get signed as we walk the Camino? Or should I just get my own when I get to SJPP?
Hi Anemone.. yes I completely understand this point abut the camino being a walking holiday with a special celebration at the end that you don't get from walking the Cheviots. When I first started thinking about this it was as a pilgrimage . I certainly don't intend to have another lifetimes of "naughtinesses" to require another such 'sacrifice'Anna, isn't surpiring to realise how long we actually walk when we compare it to driving? The same thing happens on the Camino: you look ahead and tell yourself you will never make to that bridge, windmill, town. And you do. But then you look back and realise the distance you have just covered. WhenI walk at home walking 7 km feels like a lot, but not on the Camino, don't know why. Perhaps because I don't know what's ahead of me? You'll be fine.
As for why there are those pushing to increase the requirement I would say it's not to diminish the accomplish,ent of those for whom 100km it is an accomplishment but in the hopes of returning the Camino experience to what it used to be even just 5 years ago. The compostela is now a holiday souvenir for which people will do as little as possible to get it and unfortunately that trophy chase has really changed what used to be a wonderful experience. But as Laurie put it, you know in your heart what you put in, what you got out, just cherish your credencial and special photos.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?