Re: Current Lunch Prices

[AlexanderCook]

Good morning, all:

I'll be starting my first-ever Camino (and first trip to Europe, actually) in one month. I'd appreciate any and all advice regarding the price(s)/price range for lunches on the Sarria to Santiago de Compostela route as I'm trying to budget accordingly. (I've previously read that in years past the top end for the menu del dia, for example, is 20 euros, but am not sure how accurate that is now.) I should add that I anticipate buying a glass of alcohol with lunch, so that will obviously add to the cost as I believe that's not included in the set price(s).

On a side note, is the menu del dia truly better than the pilgrim's menu and worth the additional price?

Thank you for any and all advice. Buen camino.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Wine is almost always included in the menu del dia. Sometimes even a whole bottle. I haven't walked from Sarria but last year I was paying €11 for a menu del dia in non-touristy Asturias. The bus station in Oviedo did menu del dia with a half-bottle of wine for €13.50.

 

[AlexanderCook]

Wine is almost always included in the menu del dia. Sometimes even a whole bottle. I haven't walked from Sarria but last year I was paying €11 for a menu del dia in non-touristy Asturias. The bus station in Oviedo did menu del dia with a half-bottle of wine for €13.50.

Thank you, Molly. Glad to hear that wine is included! I appreciate it. Buen camino.

 

[Flog]

Four or five days of lunches from Sarria to Santiago will be a tiny fraction of the cost of your airline flights across the Atlantic and back. The menu del dia is generally better quality, and a little more expensive than the typical menu del peregrino. Wine is included with both.

 

[AlexanderCook]

Four or five days of lunches from Sarria to Santiago will be a tiny fraction of the cost of your airline flights across the Atlantic and back. The menu del dia is generally better quality, and a little more expensive than the typical menu del peregrino. Wine is included with both.

Flog - I appreciate the advice. Thank you.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

… and while one might receive a whole bottle on the table, it is a bottle for the table… a single person is not expected to consume it all. The bottles are topped up on each turn-over from the house barrels and it’s easier for them in terms of service.
Just like the ever-present bottle of ketchup in a pub, nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

 

[Tincatinker]

Look carefully for the places that are obviously popular with pilgrims and then go somewhere else. That way you’ll get a good menu del dia, including alcohol, for 12 - 15€. Just remember that the true mdd is served during Spanish lunch hours not in the evening

 

[AlexanderCook]

Look carefully for the places that are obviously popular with pilgrims and then go somewhere else. That way you’ll get a good menu del dia, including alcohol, for 12 - 15€. Just remember that the true mdd is served during Spanish lunch hours not in the evening

Thank you for the advice. I hazard a guess that the siesta is still alive and well in this part of Spain?

 

[Bradypus]

Thank you for the advice. I hazard a guess that the siesta is still alive and well in this part of Spain?

Apart from bars and restaurants (and very large supermarkets in the largest towns) almost everything in a Spanish town is likely to be closed from about 2pm until around 5pm. The Spanish take lunch very seriously and are usually in no hurry over it.

 

[J Willhaus]

Lunch time is generally later in the afternoon. They may not start serving until 1 or 2 p.m. and finish up by 3 or 4 p.m.

 

[auburnfive]

We found that eating the larger meal around 3 after we were in for the day worked well. Dinner tended to be either tapas or something picked up from the grocery store.

 

[henrythedog]

Perhaps to paraphrase: if you want a good lunch at a good price in Spain; do as the local Spanish do.

 

[jsalt]

nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing

One rather upmarket place I stopped at once (there was no other choice) was very busy, but they slotted me into a tiny corner table.

Their lunch menu didn’t include wine, so I asked for a glass. They didn’t do “wine by the glass” only bottles (being a bit posh).

It wasn’t expensive, so I said OK I’ll have a bottle.

The server was horrified – a whole bottle?!

Fortunately I had an empty water bottle with me, slotted into the side of my backpack, so I whipped that out and said I could put half in this and take it away with me? She was happy with that! And which is what I did.

But, yeah, if I’m given a whole bottle to myself, which is included in the price, I make a point of leaving half on the table. They just top it up from the barrel for the next customer.

The menu del dia is usually much better quality than the menu de peregrino and therefore usually more expensive.

 

[J Willhaus]

A short story about siesta from my first Camino:
I was staying at Corazon Puro at Bizkarreta (before Zubiri) in a lovely place run by a pilgrim couple from Hungary (sadly, now it is closed or at least changed hands, I am not sure which). I had taken my shower, done my wash, and was heading out to visit the local tienda for a few items. The hospitalero was sitting out front doing some work and as I passed he asked me where I was going. I told him I was going to the store and he said, "Here, you will need to take this hammer."
"A hammer? Whatever for?" I asked.
"Well the tienda is closed for siesta and if you really need something, you'll have to break a window." he said.
I went back inside and took my own siesta until the store reopened at 5 p.m.

 

[trecile]

sadly, now it is closed or at least changed hands, I am not sure which

Sadly, Istvan and Barbara had to return to Hungary for family reasons. It was a wonderful place to start my first Camino.

 

[J Willhaus]

Sadly, Istvan and Barbara had to return to Hungary for family reasons. It was a wonderful place to start my first Camino.

Yes, they had a really good business model. He would pick people up at the Pamplona Airport. You could stay with them and then he would take you on to St. Jean the next morning. We broke our 2016 walk to Pamplona into 5 days (St. Jean, Orrison, Roncesvalles, Bizkarreta, Zuriain) and so glad we did.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Sadly, Istvan and Barbara had to return to Hungary for family reasons. It was a wonderful place to start my first Camino.

Yes, I heard that too. I stayed there on my first Camino and enjoyed the communal meal. I have mini-reunions once a year with the two Americans I met around the dinner table and we are still friends.

Yes, they had a really good business model. He would pick people up at the Pamplona Airport. You could stay with them and then he would take you on to St. Jean the next morning. We broke our 2016 walk to Pamplona into 5 days (St. Jean, Orrison, Roncesvalles, Bizkarreta, Zuriain) and so glad we did.

Istvan drove our group to SJPdP, too, In 2015. I tried to return in 2017, but they had already moved back to Hungary.
I remember going to take my shower after I arrived and wondered why there were no towels and soap in the bathroom. Then it dawned on me...oh yes, this is the first night that I start using my own stuff.

 

[CWBuff]

Thank you for the advice. I hazard a guess that the siesta is still alive and well in this part of Spain?

Apart from bars and restaurants (and very large supermarkets in the largest towns) almost everything in a Spanish town is likely to be closed from about 2pm until around 5pm. The Spanish take lunch very seriously and are usually in no hurry over it.

try very hard NOT to walk after 2pm. Especially if its during the "hot" season"... man! that is testing your endurance. All the villages practically become wasteland - its like the scene of some Spaghetti Western where the whole town is abandoned and Cling East....er... YOU are the only person standing in the middle of Calle Mayor!
Not knowing 'what lies ahead' I stupidly allowed myself to be dangerously short on water with hopes of refilling at the next place. You already guessing the answer, right? (cue in "The Theme from The Good the Bad and the Ugly")

 

[pjacobi]

I'll be starting my first-ever Camino (and first trip to Europe, actually) in one month

I would not recommend doing the Camino on your first trip to Europe. You have so much to learn about European travel and culture that this will only distract from your Camino experience.

I suggest taking one or more training trips, starting in the UK where there is little language barrier, then move on to the continent. Between trips, you can train at home with a backpack and learn to walk long distances. All this training will result in a much better Camino experience.

As an analogy, Calculus is much more difficult to understand if you don't have a solid background in the mathematical prerequisites.


-Paul

 

[C clearly]

I would not recommend doing the Camino on your first trip to Europe. You have so much to learn about European travel and culture that this will only distract from your Camino experience.

This recommendation makes little sense to me. The Camino is an excellent trip for a first journey to Europe. Any halfway competent adult can handle the complexities!

As an analogy, Calculus is much more difficult to understand if you don't have a solid background in the mathematical prerequisites.

Yes, and if the OP was still learning to walk and had never left their house alone, maybe the analogy would work. Walking the camino in Spain does not require sophisticated knowledge that can only be gained through extensive European travel.

 

[Bradypus]

Walking the camino in Spain does not require sophisticated knowledge that can only be gained through extensive European travel.

Half the posts I read online about the Caminos seem to be designed to make something essentially straightforward seem enormously complicated and difficult! As if the authors want applause for having achieved some miraculous feat beyond mere mortals like their readers....

 

[trecile]

I would not recommend doing the Camino on your first trip to Europe. You have so much to learn about European travel and culture that this will only distract from your Camino experience

This again?
I'd say that the Camino can be an excellent first trip to Europe since you are in the company of so many others who are doing the same thing - everyone supports each other.

 

[brian560]

Good morning, all:

I'll be starting my first-ever Camino (and first trip to Europe, actually) in one month. I'd appreciate any and all advice regarding the price(s)/price range for lunches on the Sarria to Santiago de Compostela route as I'm trying to budget accordingly. (I've previously read that in years past the top end for the menu del dia, for example, is 20 euros, but am not sure how accurate that is now.) I should add that I anticipate buying a glass of alcohol with lunch, so that will obviously add to the cost as I believe that's not included in the set price(s).

On a side note, is the menu del dia truly better than the pilgrim's menu and worth the additional price?

Thank you for any and all advice. Buen camino.

If the wine's undrinkable, ask for gaseosa. It's a faintly sweet soda added to red wine.

 

[CWBuff]

Re some of the above regarding Camino as the 1st European trip.
With All Respect Due completely disagree with @pjacobi
What could be better than a 1st trip where your typical daily task is to walk eat and go to sleep? Even the language barrier is somewhat insignificant
There is nothing needs to be learned about European travel (and short of heavier auto usage its not any different from American travel) since hopefully again one simply walks nor a "need" percse to learn about European culture - that cannot be grasped even on a quite prolonged trip and if as suggested it would be to UK then it will be more of a Britsh culture as opposed to European (same applies to any other country being set as an example instead of UK)
IMHO we learn (if we so chose) more of a Spanish culture while on Camino than a European one

 

[pjacobi]

This again?

Yes, practice make perfect! The more effort you put into the Camino, the better the experience.


-Paul

 

[C clearly]

Yes, practice make perfect!

And are you practicing for something, by repeating this theory that nobody else agrees with?

 

[SabsP]

I would not recommend doing the Camino on your first trip to Europe. You have so much to learn about European travel and culture that this will only distract from your Camino experience.

I suggest taking one or more training trips, starting in the UK where there is little language barrier, then move on to the continent. Between trips, you can train at home with a backpack and learn to walk long distances. All this training will result in a much better Camino experience.

As an analogy, Calculus is much more difficult to understand if you don't have a solid background in the mathematical prerequisites.


-Paul

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but everytime I read your advise about a dryrun/ practice trip to Europe prior walking a Camino I can't stop laughing.
Who has the money and time to do this? Aside from the fact that your idea is quite daft and unneccesary.

I promise that, when I contemplate a trip to the USA, I will do a thorough preparation. Like reading a travelguide and ask my USA friends for more details.

Plus regarding the training : just walk everyday and practice a healthy lifestyle! Always does the trick.

 

[Bradypus]

I promise that, when I contemplate a trip to the USA, I will do a thorough preparation.

I have only been there once. Way back in another century. If I go back again I think I might take a language course in preparation. Would six months be long enough? Do Duolingo have a course in American for Brits?

 

[C clearly]

If I go back again I think I might take a language course in preparation

Perhaps a practice trip to Canada would be advisable. That course would only be 3 months.

 

[henrythedog]

I promise that, when I contemplate a trip to the USA, I will do a thorough preparation. Like reading a travelguide and ask my USA friends for more details.

It takes more research than you might imagine. Don’t do as I did once and find yourself in a ‘dry county’. It was only one night 30+ years ago, but still.

 

[Antnix1]

You still find places charging 10, but my experience is most are €12 to even 15. Right now in Finisterre i paid 15.90.
Some only give 1 glass of wine instead of a half bottle, and some don't include a drink at all. You'll also frequently see coffee OR dessert.

Quality varies. If they have to cater for locals they try harder but if your albergue pushes their menu on you.. well one particularly miserable menu was noodle soup, tortilla sans onion, and a plain yoghurt. Including wine, value about €1.50.

 

[trecile]

Perhaps a practice trip to Canada would be advisable. That course would only be 3 months.

Yes, it's much quicker when you don't need to learn different orthography.

 

[CWBuff]

I have only been there once. Way back in another century. If I go back again I think I might take a language course in preparation. Would six months be long enough? Do Duolingo have a course in American for Brits?

When I go to UK I always ask my wife to translate because I cannot understand any bloody words at all

 

[pjacobi]

And are you practicing for something, by repeating this theory that nobody else agrees with?

It's sad to see people making the same mistakes over and over again.

Why are there so many pickpockets? There's always is fresh group of travelers that don't have the skills necessary to secure their valuables. In almost all cases, pickpockets can easily be avoided by investing the time and effort into learning travel skills to properly secure valuables.


-Paul

 

[CWBuff]

@pjacobi
Paul - I am not going to say you are wrong. there is a merit to above post. But, please consider - so....
1. It is OK to get pickpocketed 1st time around in Europe as long as you are not on the actual Camino but merely 'training' for Camino? and
2. By default - that 1st time in Europe one better forgo any hotels with private rooms and stay exclusively in hostals to 'mimic' the conditions that one will encounter on "live" camino?
3. Does it have to be your personal belonging that got pilfered in albergue? Can it be any on-going pickpocket scam anywhere on the street or even in a bar as you sit down for a meal and\or drink?
4. Within reasons can we absolutely state that anything above-related can not happen to you in, say NYC or LA? Can it happen in your own hometown if you decided to go downtown and make a weekend out of it?

So, I humbly repeat my and others point that it is not necessary to go and visit Europe for a 'pre-Camino training'. I honestly do not know how one 'trains' for securing his\her personal belonging but the fact remains that the deed itself (thievery, pickpocketing et al) and the counter-deed (learning to be vigilant and secure stuff) does not have anything to do with traveling to Europe pre-Camino.

 

[Harland2019]

… and while one might receive a whole bottle on the table, it is a bottle for the table… a single person is not expected to consume it all. The bottles are topped up on each turn-over from the house barrels and it’s easier for them in terms of service.
Just like the ever-present bottle of ketchup in a pub, nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

I wish I hadn't read the post especially as I am off on the CF later this month! I always thought it would be rude to leave some.

 

[CWBuff]

Ketchup or wine?

 

[Harland2019]

Ketchup or wine?

Now let me think..... I don't use ketchup so perhaps it was OK to drink the wine!

 

[David Tallan]

It's sad to see people making the same mistakes over and over again.

Why are there so many pickpockets? There's always is fresh group of travelers that don't have the skills necessary to secure their valuables. In almost all cases, pickpockets can easily be avoided by investing the time and effort into learning travel skills to properly secure valuables.


-Paul

And traveling to other, more touristy parts of Europe before doing a Camino will prevent you from getting pickpocketed? That's absurd!

You are more likely to get your pockets picked in Barcelona (purely as an example, no disrespect to the citizens of that good city) on your "practice trip" than in Molinaseca if you go straight to the Camino.

The Camino is a great way to ease into European travel, in an especially supportive environment with a deeper view into the local culture than starting with a trip to the tourist highlights.

Methinks you have it backwards.

 

[J Willhaus]

I personally find the Camino very different from European travel in general in current times. I don't think current travel practices would help prepare you much for a Camino.

The Camino is more like travel in Europe when I was a child. In the days of my youth, people may have backpacked around staying in hostels, walking long distances and or hitch hiking, but that is not the norm now. Anyone here remember "Europe on $5 per day"? The was the travel guide of choice for my mother and father. We never stayed in places with an en suite. They were not common. The bathroom was always down the hall and a shower or bath would cost an extra mark or guilder. You had to purchase TP from a vending machine at the rest stops as it was not supplied. I remember once an owner at a guest house in Tirol showing my aunt and I how to wash our hair with a bowl and pitcher in our room.This might remind me a bit more of the Camino today.

I don't think it is necessary to have traveled to Europe before undertaking the Camino. It is really like nothing else I have done in Europe, but we all have our own opinions.

 

[CWBuff]

Europe on $5/day, paying for TP (sometimes even to enter the stall), washing your hair in the room and doing laundry in a sink....
Thise were the days my friends...

 

[pjacobi]

The Camino is more like travel in Europe when I was a child.

There is nothing "old fashioned" about independent European travel. This style of travel is alive today - it just cost a little more these days - about $50 or more per day. Once you have had this experience, the Camino is easy!

In contrast, a person attempting to do the Camino on their first trip to Europe will spend more time learning about travel-related issues, such as personal security, cell phone usage, ATM machines and hotel reservations, then in thinking about the Camino! All this is much harder to do after being exhausted from a 25Km hike. It's just too much to do in one trip.

Don't miss out on the Camino experience by being distracted by travel issues.


-Paul

 

[Simperegrina]

Oh mate.

 

[SabsP]

Message to all transatlantic forummembers : you are safe here in Europe! You are safe with us .
Most of us know one or two other languages. Police and civil servants are in general very friendly and helpful.

When you are exhausted after a 25k " hike ", pubs and restaurants will serve you good food and drink. You do not even have to tip if you do not want to.

When the ATM eats up you card we will help you out if needed.

There is more chance an electric step hits you than that someone puts a gun to your face.

More free traveladvise by simple request .

Chill!

 

[trecile]

This style of travel is alive today - it just cost a little more these days - about $50 or more per day.

Where???

Once you have had this experience, the Camino is easy!

The Camino is already easier than finding $50 per day travel elsewhere in Europe!

 

[TravellingMan22]

Where???


The Camino is already easier than finding $50 per day travel elsewhere in Europe!

I totally disagree with what Paul is advocating but he is right to say that you can do much of Europe on $50 a day. In the more glamorous cities that means a hostel, but there are many places where you can get a room for $25 a night. How any of that would give you any training for a Camino is beyond me though!

That’s said it’s a lot easier to live more cheaply on the Camino.

And Europe is hundreds of different cultures and behaviours, not just one homogenous mass, so training would need to be very specific, almost an exact replica of the Camino. Maybe the only way you can train for the Camino is by walking the, errrr, Camino!

 

[C clearly]

In contrast, a person attempting to do the Camino on their first trip to Europe will spend more time learning about travel-related issues, such as personal security, cell phone usage, ATM machines and hotel reservations, then in thinking about the Camino! All this is much harder to do after being exhausted from a 25Km hike. It's just too much to do in one trip.

Don't miss out on the Camino experience by being distracted by travel issues.

Matters of personal security, how to use a cell phone, how to use an ATM, and managing accommodation are all easier to do when one is engaged in and supported by a community such as the Camino pilgrim community. The Camino Frances provides a well-structured and supported environment that a random trip to Europe does not.

You are free to have your opinion, and express it. However, I am curious whether you are at all open-minded to the idea that maybe your conclusion is not quite accurate. So far, I haven't seen that anyone on the forum agrees with your advice. In fact, we disagree with it. I wonder what your experience was on the Camino or on other trips that has led you to such a different view.

 

[pjacobi]

I attribute my wonderful experience on the Camino because I already had many independent trips to Europe and hundreds of miles of training with a backpack. That gave me a solid background and set me up for a successful Camino.

I don't understand how anyone could recommend doing the Camino on a whim without proper preparation. This only results in repeated stories of horrible blisters, taxis, and stolen items. It's like thinking you can play in the orchestra and skip all those boring music lessons!


-Paul

 

[C clearly]

I don't understand how anyone could recommend doing the Camino on a whim without proper preparation.

Fair enough. But that doesn't need to involve training trips to Europe.

 

[CWBuff]

I trained and trained and life was good on all my walks long and short flat and hilly... but on Day 10 of my Camino i got those horrible blisters....
OH.. I get it... silly me - I was training back home in US; I should've gone to Europe, then I wold've had a wonderful experience on Camino with no blisters!

P.S. I had a totally AWESONE WONDERFUL meaningful time on my Camino despite the fact that I did not do any pre-Camino boring music lessons and above-mentioned blisters.....

 

[J Willhaus]

As a hospitalera, I have met many pilgrims who just decided to walk a Camino without a lot of planning. Admittedly the ones from overseas have to do some planning such as buying a plane ticket, but not everyone does a lot of planning. They are on pilgrimage to seek and not here as a "trip" or a "bucket list item." Pilgrims are often seeking the answer to some kind of question or they are in some kind of transition and not here for "traveling in Europe." Because of that, I don't think it is entirely necessary for them to have a lot of other travel experience.

 

[trecile]

@pjacobi I attribute my first wonderful Camino to the support, encouragement, and gear travel tips that I got from this forum. I had been in Europe a couple of times before, but that travel did not prepare me for the Camino experience at all.

 

[Bob008]

… and while one might receive a whole bottle on the table, it is a bottle for the table… a single person is not expected to consume it all.
Just like the ever-present bottle of ketchup in a pub, nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

What if you received a half bottle of wine on the table? Was it rude to empty the bottle as a single diner?

 

[CWBuff]

What does it matter? As per above nobody will say anything

 

[Harland2019]

I don't understand how anyone could recommend doing the Camino on a whim without proper preparation. This only results in repeated stories of horrible blisters, taxis, and stolen items.
-Paul

On a whim, after taking retirement, and having sat at a desk for years, I decided to walk the Pennine Way which I had a desire to walk since my teenage days in the scouts. Whilst "only" 268 miles, it required map reading/compass skills (which I could still recall). The route follows the rocky spine of England ending over the border into Scotland, not that many people walking, and with little or no signposts at that time. I didn't prepare just relying on my general fitness and belief in my ability. I thoroughly enjoyed my walk with my best friend i.e. my Ordnance Survey Map and compass. In retrospect, I carried too much gear but you have to learn somehow, it didn't affect my enjoyment but only by doing long multiday walks will you know what you are capable of (or not). I guess that I could call this both ways i.e. do lots of preparation or just "go for it" and manage any issues you encounter along the way - perhaps those who would be uncomfortable with "winging it" need to prepare.

 

[Bradypus]

I don't understand how anyone could recommend doing the Camino on a whim without proper preparation.

My mother-in-law walked the Camino Frances five years before I did. My specific preparation for my first Camino consisted almost entirely in asking her about her experience and then reading a book by Laurie Dennett which she lent me. I also spent a few hours with a small teach-yourself Spanish book. Before the internet reached the general public so no videos, online forums or the like. And almost no published books in English on the pilgrimage - at least in its recently recreated form. At that point I had very little experience of travel outside the UK and had never travelled overseas solo. I borrowed Barbara's Spanish-language guidebook from 1985 and booked rail travel to SJPDP. I was reasonably confident in my physical fitness - not a sporty type but I did have experience in hillwalking and long-distance walking. The notion of making a visit to France or Spain in advance simply as some sort of training or reconnaissance would have struck me then as totally unnecessary and with the wealth of information now available at the click of a mouse seems ever more so now.

 

[pjacobi]

Can you walk the Camino on a whim? Yes!

Will proper preparation by investing in travel skills and training with a backpack result in a better Camino? In my opinion, this results in the best possible Camino experience. Why settle for anything less?


-Paul

 

[CWBuff]

...sigh... i give up....
Buen "properly prepared by investing in travel skills and training with a backpack" better Camino my friend!

 

[J Willhaus]

Can you walk the Camino on a whim? Yes!

Will proper preparation by investing in travel skills and training with a backpack result in a better Camino? In my opinion, this results in the best possible Camino experience. Why settle for anything less?


-Paul

You are kind of missing my point. It is a pilgrimage for many people who are seeking and not a travel opportunity. The goals are different.

 

[Tincatinker]

The first time I went to Spain my guide book was Laurie Lee’s “As I walked out one mid-summer morning”. Of about as much practical use as a chocolate tea-pot. I survived. But then I had had plenty of experience of surviving in a hostile environment: I’d been born a Tinker in England

Nowadays I think the kindly Amigos, Associations and Con-fraternities would be best to devote their energies to training on Berking.con, Correos and following the blue dot…

 

[SabsP]

Can you walk the Camino on a whim? Yes!

Will proper preparation by investing in travel skills and training with a backpack result in a better Camino? In my opinion, this results in the best possible Camino experience. Why settle for anything less?


-Paul

Because I do not want the best possible Camino experience.
Experience? Like an attraction in an amusement park? No thank you.

Best possible? Compared to what? You walk, you stop walking, you eat and drink. You sleep. Next day: on repeat.
Not unlike daily life. You take it as it comes.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. Carpe Diem!

 

[Tincatinker]

Thanks @SabsP. Walk, Eat, Sleep, Repeat.
And when you get to Santiago you can even buy the T-shirt!!!! Let joy abound (she doesn’t get out much these days )

 

[Bob008]

What does it matter? As per above nobody will say anything

Well.. Like most people I try to be a well-mannered person. I was taught to eat everything on the plate. This is how you show your appreciation to the person who prepared the food, and that you don't throw away good food when there are people starving in the world. I extended that logic to wine and drank the whole thing when I received a 1/2 - 2/3 full bottle of wine on several occasions while I was in Spain. Now I'm learning that was being rude. Oh, well. You live and learn.

 

[Tincatinker]

Oh, well. You live and learn.

And isn’t that the whole joyful part of it all

 

[trecile]

Well.. Like most people I try to be a well-mannered person. I was taught to eat everything on the plate. This is how you show your appreciation to the person who prepared the food, and that you don't throw away good food when there are people starving in the world

In some cultures it's considered rude to eat everything on your plate because it could mean that you weren't offered enough food.

 

[CWBuff]

Well.. Like most people I try to be a well-mannered person. I was taught to eat everything on the plate. This is how you show your appreciation to the person who prepared the food, and that you don't throw away good food when there are people starving in the world. I extended that logic to wine and drank the whole thing when I received a 1/2 - 2/3 full bottle of wine on several occasions while I was in Spain. Now I'm learning that was being rude. Oh, well. You live and learn.

Naaaw - you are not rude! I cant stop you from thinking that perhaps you are, just because you polished a 1/2 bottle of wine, but IMHO that does not constitute rudeness. Just for the heck of it - what are you suppose to do with the remnants? leave the bottle on the table and if so, for what? so it can be dumped into the sink? (or perhaps the waiter will take it home to his wife?!....LOL)

Now here is a kicker - re:eat everything on the plate. Albergue Municipal El Camino de Santovenia in Santovenia del Oca. 4 of us - Yours truly, a gent from Italy, a German lady and a Chinese one. Come dinner we 3 polish off our plates almost licking them with our tongues. Liz (the Chinese) asks us why, and we proceed to tell her more or less what you said that we were taught to do so to "show your appreciation to the person who prepared the food".
She in turn does not finish whats on her plate and proceeds to tell us that in Chinese culture it is insulting to the host(s) to eat everything on your plate as this sublimely implies that they did not provide enough food and their guests are hungry
And there you have it - the difference of cultures

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Just for the heck of it - what are you suppose to do with the remnants? leave the bottle on the table and if so, for what? so it can be dumped into the sink? (or perhaps the waiter will take it home to his wife?!....LOL)

I think you missed the explanation above: the wine that comes with a Pilgrim’s Menu is purchased in bulk, the bottles are simply topped up and sent out again. It’s normal (and very logical).

 

[trecile]

I think you missed the explanation above: the wine that comes with a Pilgrim’s Menu is purchased in bulk, the bottles are simply topped up and sent out again. It’s normal (and very logical).

That's not always the case. I've had a bottle of wine that was brought to the table fully sealed and corked. Several times when dining alone they've brought me a small carafe if wine which held 2 - 3 glasses.

 

[Opiemoore]

That's not always the case. I've had a bottle of wine that was brought to the table fully sealed and corked. Several times when dining alone they've brought me a small carafe if wine which held 2 - 3 glasses.

Good morning, all:

I'll be starting my first-ever Camino (and first trip to Europe, actually) in one month. I'd appreciate any and all advice regarding the price(s)/price range for lunches on the Sarria to Santiago de Compostela route as I'm trying to budget accordingly. (I've previously read that in years past the top end for the menu del dia, for example, is 20 euros, but am not sure how accurate that is now.) I should add that I anticipate buying a glass of alcohol with lunch, so that will obviously add to the cost as I believe that's not included in the set price(s).

On a side note, is the menu del dia truly better than the pilgrim's menu and worth the additional price?

Thank you for any and all advice. Buen camino.

Hi Alexander.

Not exactly on point, but… depending on how many time zones you’re crossing on the way to Europe, I’ve found that the first few days are kinda blurry because of jet lag. Roughly 12 hour difference from where I start, so I’ve learned to fly into a place that I’d like to see, a little bit, and just kinda mosey around for two or three days adjusting to the time zone, THEN launch off into whatever the main focus is. Makes the memories sharper, if time permits.

Buen Camino!

 

[CWBuff]

From East Coast US is 6 hours. Most of us try to make the overnight flight and some try to stay on their feet for as long as they can before dropping into the bed.
Couple of days rest is a solid advice if you suffer from jet lag (I thankfully am free of this malady)

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

That's not always the case. I've had a bottle of wine that was brought to the table fully sealed and corked. Several times when dining alone they've brought me a small carafe if wine which held 2 - 3 glasses.

I know it's not so romantic as pulling it from a cask, but much of the time, nowadays, the bulk wine that is peregrino- or menu del dia quality comes in those 3- or 4-litre boxes, so the various-sized glass jugs are quite common.

I've been in Spanish and Portuguese farm-supply stores, where they often sell wine-making equipment, and even home winemakers now can bottle in bulk, using those sanitized pouches that fit in the boxes.

Almost all "okay quality" wine can be bought in them, usually slightly cheaper than the same quantity would cost in bottles. And more flexible, in terms of serving. And it lasts longer, since the inner pouch keeps the air away from the leftover wine. So you'll find most cafés and casual restaurants use them.

 

[J Willhaus]

When we bought wine at the "restaurant supplier" in Santo Domingo de la Calzada for the albergue where we were serving we bought bulk Rioja wine.

 

[Kathar1na]

I think you missed the explanation above: the wine that comes with a Pilgrim’s Menu is purchased in bulk, the bottles are simply topped up and sent out again. It’s normal (and very logical).

I did read the explanation above: that a single person is not expected to consume the whole bottle included in a menu del peregrino, and that the bottles are topped up on each turn-over from the house barrels and and that nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

Is it actually true? I've never heard this before. Can someone with knowledge of the subject matter confirm this?

I would find it quite strange that bottles of wine are topped up and that the left-over wine that has been served to a pilgrim is served again to the next one and then the next one.

I've not paid attention to it on Camino because I've usually opted for water instead of wine or we were two or more at the table when we opted for the wine included in the menu price ... but in other wine-growing areas and not wine-growing areas such as France, Germany and the Benelux, when you order the "house wine" - the cheapest on the list - the wine is served in a glass or an open jug that holds less than the 3/4 litre of a standard wine bottle. One would expect that this method is not unfamiliar to the restaurant owners of Spain if they are keen on not wasting wine.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I did read the explanation above: that a single person is not expected to consume the whole bottle included in a menu del peregrino, and that the bottles are topped up on each turn-over from the house barrels and and that nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

Is it actually true? I've never heard this before. Can someone with knowledge of the subject matter confirm this?

I would find it quite strange that bottles of wine are topped up and that the left-over wine that has been served to a pilgrim is served again to the next one and then the next one.

I've not paid attention to it on Camino because we usually opted for water instead of wine or we were two or more at the table when we opted for the wine included in the menu price ... but in other wine-growing areas and not wine-growing areas such as France, Germany and the Benelux, when you order the "house wine" - the cheapest on the list - the wine is served in a glass or an open jug that holds less than the 3/4 litre of a standard wine bottle. One would expect that this method is not unfamiliar to the restaurant owners of Spain if they are keen on not wasting wine.

I have, on one occasion in Spain (not on camino) been given and already open (not full) bottle of wine. I have also, on occasion received a carafe or a glass of wine. I have also been given a whole bottle of wine that was opened at the table and in the bus station restaurant at Oviedo, a commercially bottled half-bottle, which was again opened at the table.

In general the volume of wine is in inverse proportion to its quality. In more up-market restaurants you are more likely to get a glass of good wine with your menu del dia.

 

[Bradypus]

In general the volume of wine is in inverse proportion to its quality. In more up-market restaurants you are more likely to get a glass of good wine with your menu del dia.

I have found that when a small bottle of gaseosa is already set out on every table or brought by default with the wine then you should probably brace yourself for something a little rough!

 

[Kathar1na]

drank the whole thing when I received a 1/2 - 2/3 full bottle of wine on several occasions while I was in Spain. Now I'm learning that was being rude. Oh, well. You live and learn.

The standard size of a bottle of wine is 750 ml. If it was served in an open bottle that was not full, this corresponds to 375 ml to 500 ml. I come from a wine-growing area where this would be 1 resp. 2 glasses (250 ml each). For a grown man and his meal on a day of hard physical labour ... not at all considered unusual.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet ...

 

[Kathar1na]

attribute my wonderful experience on the Camino because I already had many independent trips to Europe and hundreds of miles of training with a backpack. That gave me a solid background and set me up for a successful Camino.

Ah, at least there is now an explanation for your persistent advice to practice European travel before embarking on European Camino travel.

What neither we nor you can know of course is how more wonderful your experience on the Camino could have been without any independent earlier trips to Europe ...

 

[TravellingMan22]

The standard size of a bottle of wine is 750 ml. If it was served in an open bottle that was not full, this corresponds to 375 ml to 500 ml. I come from a wine-growing area where this would be 1 resp. 2 glasses (250 ml each). For a grown man and his meal on a day of hard physical labour ... not at all considered unusual.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet ...

I must admit consuming 3 x 250ml glasses of wine over say a 2 hr dinner wouldn’t strike me as rude or madly excessive. I think different nations may see it differently.

 

[Kathar1na]

I must admit consuming 3 x 250ml glasses of wine over say a 2 hr dinner wouldn’t strike me as rude or madly excessive. I think different nations may see it differently.

It is not at all clear what is being discussed other than what a single poster considered as "good manners" in restaurants/bars in Spain frequented by pilgrims on Camino and ordering the menu del peregrino: Open bottles? Unopened bottles? Full open bottles? Half full open bottles? Refill of partially emptied bottles for the next customer?

I vaguely remember my first stay at the hotel in Roncesvalles. We stayed for 2 nights and this was our first encounter with the menu del Peregrino concept which at that point was still unknown to us. It was a long time ago and I only remember that we were mightily puzzled by the bottle of wine that appeared although we had not ordered it. It did not help that, at the time, the staff was not able to communicate in either English or French and we did not know any Spanish. It was different on the second stay where I was somewhat familiar with both Spanish and the menu del Peregrino.

So, can someone shed more light on this: Is the peregrin@ expected to leave wine behind in the menu del peregrino bottle on the table?

 

[Barbara]

I would not recommend doing the Camino on your first trip to Europe. You have so much to learn about European travel and culture that this will only distract from your Camino experience.

I suggest taking one or more training trips, starting in the UK where there is little language barrier, then move on to the continent. Between trips, you can train at home with a backpack and learn to walk long distances. All this training will result in a much better Camino experience.

As an analogy, Calculus is much more difficult to understand if you don't have a solid background in the mathematical prerequisites.


-Paul

Excuse me while I go and bang my head against the wall. Training trips? It's a walk in a first world country. With places to stay. Good grief.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Excuse me while I go and bang my head against the wall. Training trips? It's a walk in a first world country. With places to stay. Good grief.

Don’t bang your head against the wall without some supervised training first!

 

[trecile]

So, can someone shed more light on this: Is the peregrin@ expected to leave wine behind in the menu del peregrino bottle on the table?

I think that the pilgrim is expected to be able to leave the bar or restaurant on their own two feet without falling over.

 

[Barbara]

It takes more research than you might imagine. Don’t do as I did once and find yourself in a ‘dry county’. It was only one night 30+ years ago, but still.

Oh yes, I feel your pain. The PTSD lasts for a long time after that sort of experience.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I did read the explanation above: that a single person is not expected to consume the whole bottle included in a menu del peregrino, and that the bottles are topped up on each turn-over from the house barrels and and that nobody expects that a single diner will consume the whole thing. It’s considered a bit of bad manners… even if nobody would say so directly to the face of the pilgrim who polishes off the whole thing.

Is it actually true? I've never heard this before. Can someone with knowledge of the subject matter confirm this?

I would find it quite strange that bottles of wine are topped up and that the left-over wine that has been served to a pilgrim is served again to the next one and then the next one.

I've not paid attention to it on Camino because I've usually opted for water instead of wine or we were two or more at the table when we opted for the wine included in the menu price ... but in other wine-growing areas and not wine-growing areas such as France, Germany and the Benelux, when you order the "house wine" - the cheapest on the list - the wine is served in a glass or an open jug that holds less than the 3/4 litre of a standard wine bottle. One would expect that this method is not unfamiliar to the restaurant owners of Spain if they are keen on not wasting wine.

Whilst I've not actually seen them filling it from a physical barrel I have on both the Inglés and the Primitivo last year witnessed the bartender pouring the remnants of one bottle into another using a funnel. The bottles were 'clean skins' /unlabeled bottles. This would suggest that as posted above that they buy the wine in bulk and simply put it in bottles to bring out to the table. No different than pouring it into a carafe, other than the bottle minimises the wine's exposure to the air - not really an issue with such cheap wine!

Whilst I was initially surprised it didn't bother me in the slightest. I am not buying a 2010 Rioja Gran Reserva 890, nor are they presenting it as such.

Incidentally I am not suggesting that they would follow this practice with labeled bottles of wine. That's a whole different story.

I agree it would be interesting to have other, independent confirmation

 

[Barbara]

When we bought wine at the "restaurant supplier" in Santo Domingo de la Calzada for the albergue where we were serving we bought bulk Rioja wine.

I live on France and that's how I buy my everyday wine. Usually in a 3 litre bag in box which fits nicely in the fridge or on the table and keeps for as long as it needs to. The bag collapses as it's emptied so the air doesn't get in. Sometimes the box is omitted but there is always a tap at the bottom. Good system. A bit cheaper than in a bottle and no waste. Somehow I always end up drinking more if I open a bottle. Especially if it has bubbles and is made in Reims.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I live on France and that's how I buy my everyday wine. Usually in a 3 litre bag in box which fits nicely in the fridge or on the table and keeps for as long as it needs to. The bag collapses as it's emptied so the air doesn't get in. Sometimes the box is omitted but there is always a tap at the bottom. Good system. A bit cheaper than in a bottle and no waste. Somehow I always end up drinking more if I open a bottle. Especially if it has bubbles and is made in Reims.

As a teenager in New Zealand that's how we used to buy our wine too - in 3 and 4 liter casks. The empty bladders reinflated a little make quite good pillows afterwards

 

[Kathar1na]

This would suggest that as posted above that they buy the wine in bulk and simply put it in bottles to bring out to the table. No different than pouring it into a carafe, other than the bottle minimises the wine's exposure to the air - not really an issue with such cheap wine! Whilst I was initially surprised it didn't bother me in the slightest.

This would not bother me either, and as you said it is not different from serving wine in a carafe.

But being offered a labelled bottle as included in the price for the meal and then being expected to not drink a certain quantity and it being offered to the next guest - that idea would take some getting used to. The earlier post in this thread is the first time that I heard of this advice on good manners or expectations from the restaurant or bar owner in Spain.

 

[Barbara]

Whilst I've not actually seen them filling it from a physical barrel I have on both the Inglés and the Primitivo last year witnessed the bartender pouring the remnants of one bottle into another using a funnel. The bottles were 'clean skins' - what a vintner friend of mine calls an unlabeled bottle. This would suggest that as posted above that they buy the wine in bulk and simply put it in bottles to bring out to the table. No different than pouring it into a carafe, other than the bottle minimises the wine's exposure to the air - not really an issue with such cheap wine!

Whilst I was initially surprised it didn't bother me in the slightest. I am not buying a 2010 Rioja Gran Reserva 890, nor are they presenting it as such.

Incidentally I am not suggesting that they would follow this practice with labeled bottles of wine. That's a whole different story.

I agree it would be interesting to have other, independent confirmation

That's certainly the system in France. Usually it's possible to buy exactly the same wine both in bag in box and bottle, in the middle of the price range at least. My local pub serves a very nice Pays d'Oc in cafafe or bottle ( 25cl or 50cl or 1 litre in carafe, the bottle is standard 75cl) . Many places (including this one) no longer include wine to keep the meal price down, and a lot of people don't want alcoholic drinks at lunchtime.
Just down the road the wine is included, and it comes in a litre bottle for the table. Empty it and it will be replaced full. I've never actually tested this when on my own.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

The earlier post in this thread is the first time that I heard of this advice on good manners or expectations from the restaurant or bar owner in Spain.

True I got more involved in answering all the follow-up questions than the original post...

Whilst it seems a reasonable premise I really have no idea.

 

[Bradypus]

Just down the road the wine is included, and it comes in a litre bottle for the table. Empty it and it will be replaced full. I've never actually tested this when on my own.

 

[Kathar1na]

Perhaps we ought to explore the "free wine and good pilgrim manners" a bit more.

As I said, I don't have much experience with a full (750 ml) bottle of red wine for the lone pilgrim myself as I am not terribly keen on cheap red wine anyway and even when I drink it on my own with my meal it would not be more than a glass. The quantity of what constitutes "a glass of wine" will vary but I guess along the Camino it is mostly 125 ml?

Once on the Camino Frances, with a large group, several bottles were placed on the tables and emptied. At the end of the meal, one or two pilgrims asked for more wine, and it was served but I felt this was done reluctantly. I was embarrassed by their ordering more wine and expecting it to be free or "included" but I did not say anything.

In a clearly not Camino pilgrim oriented small restaurant in a town on the CF the restaurateur took care to explain the various Rioja wines to us and what he recommended for our meal, and it was clear that the two of us could - and perhaps should - order by the glass. BTW, I was taken aback by the low price, and it was very decent Rioja wine.

Further along the way, in a typical Camino pilgrim bar/restaurant/albergue place, I fancied a glass of good wine with my pilgrim meal (no menu del dia on offer) but the staff did not understand why I would want to do this nor could they recommend anything out of their list (it was a bar cum pilgrim restaurant). I even tried to make clear that I would be paying extra for it. OK, it was not a temple of high gastronomy there and they were certainly "oriented towards pilgrims".

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

At the end of the meal, one or two pilgrims asked for more wine, and it was served but I felt this was done reluctantly - I was embarrassed by their ordering more wine and expecting it to be free but I did not say anything.

Yet another classic case of cultural difference. As the waiter in such a situation I would have no difficulty in saying 'certainly, shall I add it to the bill or are you paying separately' or some such, however that does not appear to be the Spanish way.

Please note I am not as experienced as many of you with regards to Spain!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I have had the full bottle of wine to myself as a single diner at non-pilgrim and non-touristy places in Madrid and various towns in Asturias and Cantabria. Particularly in cities, there are many single diners at lunchtime and I have observed the behaviour of others.

I think generally Spanish people are not too concerned about it. People just drink what they want, which is often 2 or 3 glasses. I don't think drinking all the wine and then asking for more is acceptable, though.

 

[Kathar1na]

Yet another classic case of cultural difference.

Which is way I think it does no harm to discuss such seemingly trivial details and differences. When I read the earlier post with the comparison between a bottle of ketchup on the table and the menu del peregrino wine I was thinking to myself: hm, where I live there is usually no ketchup bottle on the table, not even in the typical everyday restaurants.

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

My two bits' worth:

I sense the heart of this discussion is the relative perception of "value of the wine," if I can call it that.

In Spain and Portugal, table wine is so cheap as to seem to locals just a tiny bit more valuable than water.

I can buy a 1-litre box of wine (admittedly, not great, but drinkable) for less than 1 euro in a supermarket. It's definitely cheaper than pop/soda.

This is something of a foreign concept for those of us who come from countries where even the cheapest wine is not objectively "cheap," mostly because there are a lot of taxes on any alcohol. "Free wine with a meal" is not something you would find in a cheap café--in Canada, anyway!

Thus, to many of us, whether we drink 1 glass, or 1/2 glass, or 2 glasses of free house wine, is significant. To the Iberian café owner, not so much.

All the same, I suspect a local, particularly in a small town, would consider a peregrino less than gracious, and possibly taking advantage of local generosity, to ask for more than what was already offered with the menu del dia.

 

[TravellingMan22]

My two bits' worth:

I sense the heart of this discussion is the relative perception of "value of the wine," if I can call it that.

In Spain and Portugal, table wine is so cheap as to seem to locals just a tiny bit more valuable than water.

I can buy a 1-litre box of wine (admittedly, not great, but drinkable) for less than 1 euro in a supermarket. It's definitely cheaper than pop/soda.

This is something of a foreign concept for those of us who come from countries where even the cheapest wine is not objectively "cheap," mostly because there are a lot of taxes on any alcohol. "Free wine with a meal" is not something you would find in a cheap café--in Canada, anyway!

Thus, to many of us, whether we drink 1 glass, or 1/2 glass, or 2 glasses of free house wine, is significant. To the Iberian café owner, not so much.

All the same, I suspect a local, particularly in a small town, would consider a peregrino less than gracious, and possibly taking advantage of local generosity, to ask for more than what was already offered with the menu del dia.

Good point. Soft drinks are often more expensive than wine in many parts of Spain I always think of €2 as par but often much cheaper! It’s just flows easily back and forth with no fuss! I struggle to imagine anyone getting too emotional about it!

That said I would always offer to pay for anything extra!

 

[CWBuff]

My two bits' worth:

I sense the heart of this discussion is the relative perception of "value of the wine," if I can call it that.

In Spain and Portugal, table wine is so cheap as to seem to locals just a tiny bit more valuable than water.

I can buy a 1-litre box of wine (admittedly, not great, but drinkable) for less than 1 euro in a supermarket. It's definitely cheaper than pop/soda.

I guess we need to change the title of the thread to Current Liquid Lunch Prices to properly reflect the noted heart of discussion

re: also noted price of wine vs soda\pop - I do recall being totally floored when in 2010 during a Black Sea\Dnieper River cruise on Viking line the bottle of Ukrainian beer was cheaper than a bottle of Coke\Pepsi.

 

[Barbara]

I guess we need to change the title of the thread to Current Liquid Lunch Prices to properly reflect the noted heart of discussion

re: also noted price of wine vs soda\pop - I do recall being totally floored when in 2010 during a Black Sea\Dnieper River cruise on Viking line the bottle of Ukrainian beer was cheaper than a bottle of Coke\Pepsi.

Why not? It's as cheap to make so an increased price is likely due to tax. If there is no extra tax on the beer then the cost should reflect the production cost.

 

[CWBuff]

@Barbara - I don't doubt that. However in my 50 years living in US I don't even think about taxes levied on alcohol (technically they are levied on Coke\Pepsi\etc. as well I just presume not as much)
I guess I also should take into consideration that in my example the Coke is an imported product while beer was domestically made. Of course my interest was peaked, I went to Wiki and found this:

The Slavutich Brewery (Ukrainian: Славутич) is a brewery in Ukraine, part of the Carlsberg Group. The company produces a number of brand name beers and non-alcoholic products for domestic as well as foreign markets.
....Slavutich breweries in Kyiv and Zaporizhia) and at the Lvivska Brewery in Lviv....

Considering that the cruise I was on was going up Dnieper River to Kiev with a stop at Zaporizhia - well... there ya go

In any case for better or worse - it was a surprize.

 

[Victoria65]

Yes, practice make perfect! The more effort you put into the Camino, the better the experience.


-Paul

My very first Camino (2014) AND trip to Europe were also one and the same, I loved both so much that this year is my forth Camino, and I never went home! Still enjoying the awesome experience of both!