PILGRIMSPLAZA
Active Member
“Only speak when it supports silence!”
Today the view count on The Santiago Enigma on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html passed 6.000 so it's time to explain what happened a quarter of a century ago sitting with my back to the wall opposite of the Pórtico de la Gloria. After about an hour enjoying all that beauty I suddenly saw the meaning or message: those spiritual, rather 'blank' exalted faces of Christ in Majesty, James Major and Minor worked to me as a mirror, inviting me to look through their eyes -as it were- at my self, at what I am and what I stand for in this House of God.
It came completely out of the blue; I was not prepared for such an intimate existential happening. All I knew at that precious moment was that it was right, no matter what anybody should think or say of it. The first decades I let it rest and ripe and only when I entered this forum I started to write about The Santiago Enigma.
In the beginning especially Tracy Saunders and Gareth Thomas helped a lot to make this tread into what it is today but now it's time to close it after giving some last clues in The Santiago Enigma - clues on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6469.html and Pórtico de la Gloria - gateway into Divine Revelation on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6481.html .
In miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p20890 Gareth gave some good advice to be careful with explaining facial similarities in the Gloria. That's right but with all due respect it is also a little beside my point. * This is not about my interpretation of Master Mateo's (or his commissioners) intentions and masterwork but about my initial experience:
This is more on form than content.
More on iconography than religion!
On how ancient messages are passed.
On reading a medieval stone bible.
And seeing what you’re looking at:
For inspiration
Once upon a time a French museum showed a painting of a bouquet in a bucket.
One beautiful Spring day a child said to its parents: ‘Look, those two are kissing!’
Indeed: In the water between the stems of the flowers a loving pair was reflected.
Like in a distant mirror - No one could remember if anyone had seen that before…
Vézelay
Before going to Vézelay I attended a lecture by History of Art professor Raoul Bauer at Ghent university who explained that in this Vézelay tympanum for the first time in medieval architecture Christ is depicted as a symbol of love. Not as our judge on the youngest day anymore like in older churches. That content is given form in the sculpting of Christ in the tympanum as well as in the overall architecture of this abbey church allowing a lot of sunlight inside. No more ‘medieval’ darkness as before. For me that struck the right tone in this great spiritual voyage of discovering The Santiago Enigma. See the Romanesque tympanum of Vézelay Abbey, 1130s. in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tympanum_% ... tecture%29 .
Daniel (you immediately recognize him by his right foot of which only the toes touch base)
It began a quarter of a century ago in Spring 1983 when I suddenly got Master Mateo’s message in his Pórtico de la Gloria. Daniel led the Way. His beautiful beaming face and his famous smile (La sonrisa de Daniel *) shows so much power, realism and plain human interest that there can hardly be any doubt of the intentions of Mateo or his commissioners. This message is very manyfold, visible, loud and clear: crystal clear. Anyone can see it. Content and form are one; as in Vézelay. * See the polyglot http://consellodacultura.org/wp-content ... orriso.pdf with Galicia, the smile of Daniel in English translation.
Santiago
Arriving at Plaza de Obradoiro and entering the cathedral brought -to my own big surprise- tears to my eyes. As professional pilgrim I had read a lot about Santiago to pass that information onto our Dutch pilgrims but being on the spot was something else… First it struck me how almost overwhelmingly present Saint James is in his own House. I had never seen that with patrons in other churches. Then, back to the wall in the narthex, it happened and it hit me hard.
Suddenly I noticed that the faces of Saint James on his trumeau and above him in the tympanum Christ in his Gloria -in contrast to Daniel’s unicity- looked very much the same. They ‘said’ the same to me. All at once both their messages looked very identical. Now why was that? Why such a significant accent? Was that an extra signal? How could that be? Not a discretion of Master Mateo of course, but could it really have been intended by his authorities? It took me years to figure that out and to put this jigsaw puzzle together. Those two faces seemed to stare directly at me passing their identical message: you are not just watching Me, you are seeing yourself! It felt like looking in a distant mirror and coming home.
Myth busted!
Last year I promised a handful of good pilgrim friends a nice lunch after returning from their pilgrimage when they would confirm what I imagined. Soon two came close and one got very close when he stated that painting and sculpting identical faces was common practice in those early years of pilgrimage. But in this very special case with that very expressive radiant face of Daniel’s that explanation was too close for comfort. In the weekend when Tracy went to Santiago and Gareth to his own Gloria in London, and this Enigma could evaporate any minute, I prepared this apologia. It was a lovely long and mystical journey. Thank you for reading it!
Main question still open
Now, more than a year later, the enigma is busted but the main question How a jewish apostle converted posthumously into a catholic saint? has not yet been answered here; see: http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
Anyone? :wink:
Reactions - [21 from 24-30 July 2009] - [highlighting above and below by me -gb]
[1] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35425 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina
[2] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35426 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... Geert
[3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5340 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina
[4] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5341 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... - Geert
[5] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38251 by Priscillian: A warning: Forum members: a lot of you might not like what I have written here, but for those of you who have been around for a while, you will know that I don't pull my punches. I will probably only hear from those of you who disagree with me, and that's OK. I can take it. But the rest of you, if what I write here resonates with you - only some of my thoughts after 240 kms and sore feet and back, and plenty of time for reflection - please also, do comment. (...)
[6] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38256 by PILGRIMSPLAZA: Dear Tracy, I'm so glad that you apparently arrived in Santiago in good health (apart from the usual aches and pains that will soon disappear) and high spirits and I'm very honoured to get a reaction so quickly after your arrival! - I do hope that we can discuss this post on my sacred Lemeler Mountain one day to see what has stayed and what has changed in your views now and then. For the time being I would like to comment on a few of your lines (...)
[7] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38257 by MichaelB10398: Priscillian, I enjoy your writing; there is enough passion and fire in it to light the path of the entire Camino Frances. I am not a Catholic, but I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and a seeker of truth. I have studied religion for over 40 years and know more than most the wickedness done in the name of the church or religion in general. Yet, within Catholicism one can find some of the choicest of examples of true Christianity. The depth and breadth of theology, religious expression, and piety are not easily reproduced in the world. There is much to be cherished and should be cherished. (...)
[8] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian:
I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere between Passion and Righteous Indignation, but the first is easily misunderstood as fanaticism and the second is Exactly What I Have Been Struggling Against on this Camino. My mother taught me that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Always listen to your mother!
[9] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5342 - Re: Santiago Enigma busted - main question still open - ... Not to be pedantic, but some would argue the "Catholic all until Luther" statement. Most of them would be about 300 million Orthodox Christians, who say... - Rebekah
[10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5343 - ... Oooh, I like that! claire _ http://acatholicwomansplace.blogspot.com ... - claire bangasser
[11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5344 - ...Very well said. I agree. Ray To: saintjames@yahoogroups.com From: grilly@... - Subject: Re: [saintjames] Re:... - Raymond Francis
[12] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38377 by TerryB:
Is that sentence a 'typo'? should it not say:- "a cup that doesn't run over will never receive more water"? Better to avoid the double negative and be positive :- " A cup that runs over will always receive more water!"
A good motto for pilgrims of whatever sort. We need to give to receive. Basic teaching by our Lord Jesus but so often forgotten or ignored by His followers. Shame on us! Or as the Catholic Church would say 'Mea Culpa'.
I am fascinated by the theories shared on this thread. Would the message of the Portico need to be read by all who entered or was it only for those who had the 'key'? My own feeling is that it is a sermon in stone like the glorious carvings in the Chapter House at Salisbury cathedral and mediaeval wall paintings.
Keep thinking! - Blessings on your coming and going - Tio Tel - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored.
[13] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38387 by Priscillian: No, I know of a Zen story which goes something like this: A wealthy industrialist went to see a wise sage. The sage poured him tea and began to tell him a little about the Way of Zen but the businessman kept on interrupting with his own - contradictory - ideas. The wise man continued to pour the tea until the businessman said: "Stop pouring! Can't you see that the cup is full?" - "Yes, I can see that," said the Sage, "and like you because it is full, no more can enter in...." - Tracy
[14] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian - Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil. Michael, you are so right! I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere betwe...
[15] discuss-news-from-santiago/topic6569.html#p38391 - Rare glimpse of the heavens - Portico del Gloria by sillydoll who graciously pointed at http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 62077.html - Santiago Notebook: A rare glimpse of the heavens - By Elizabeth Nash - I looked into the eyes of God, and they seemed kind and alert. I raised my hand to his cheek, but was warned not to touch. After all, he was 800 years old and his skin was flaking off. The Portico of Glory of Santiago de Compostela's cathedral in northwest Spain, hailed by Jan Morris as "unquestionably one of the great buildings of the world", has been admired by pilgrims to the supposed shrine of Saint James since the 12th century. - But apart from the stonemasons of the time (and a 17th-century artist who touched up the colour) few have seen the magnificent portrayal of Judgment Day as close up as I did last week. After more than eight centuries, this jewel of European Romanesque architecture is being restored. (…) Thank you, Sil!
[15a] My comment on the article http://opinion.independentminds.livejou ... #t10781901
[16] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38456 - My pilgrim friend Jeroen Gooskens mailed this reaction that (knowing him) is very special and precious to me:
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=45 - Jeroen's own pilgrim’s book 1998
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=42 - Jeroen's King review
[17] ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=12231 PM from TerryB: Hello again Geert, i have always been interested in the 'Hereford School' of architecture. Supposedly set up by a Norman knight who had been to Compostela on pilgrimage and 'imported' one of their architects. A few links for you so that you can see what I mean!
http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666/
http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley
I am never sure about Wikipedia but at least it gives you a start. Eardisley font is one of the best that I have seen. A mixture of celtic (Wales and Romanesque) I will look round for pics for you when I have time. - Blessings - Terry - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored. - TerryB
- http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html - Kilpeck church - Considering the great skill of the carvers, it is surprising that the figures over the doorway are not centred: the middle larger voussoir is off-centre as is the 'Lamb of God' on the corbel above. There is a lack of symmetry throughout the church, both inside and out, which gives it a unique local Herefordshire quality.
- http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm - Kilpeck Church and Abbey Dore - Much of the work at Kilpeck is unique in Britain, and it is widely accepted as the best example of the 'Herefordshire School' style of carving.
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666 - Brinsop - St George fights the dragon by the light of stained glass . Norman c.1150 - Herefordshire, England.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley - Eardisley is a village in the county of Herefordshire, England. - Eardisley is also well-known for its fine church font. A Norman font of the Herefordshire School, carved with allegorical figures, it bears some resemblance to the carvings at Kilpeck in south Herefordshire. It is particularly notable for its combination of intricate Celtic knotwork patterns with Norman figures, and remains used for baptisms.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral - The chapter house is notable for its octagonal shape, slender central pillar and decorative mediæval frieze. The frieze circles the interior, just above the stalls, and depicts scenes and stories from the books of Genesis and Exodus, including Adam and Eve, Noah, the Tower of Babel, and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
[18] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38472 by Priscillian:
[19] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38478 - by MichaelB10398 - Tracy, it seems like we have similar libraries. I have attempted to collect a copy of every holy book the world uses and to read them.
I believe there is one God and as such all truth comes from him regardless of which religion it is found. Further, I believe that God will judge all of his children based upon the truth that they have been given and how they lived it. I am writing in a broad manner and do not wish to get into the topic of sanctification and related topics. Suffice it to say I think a lot of Christians will be surprised on who is sitting next to them in Heaven.
On the other hand, I would also say that all will have the opportunity to come unto Christ. They will see the hands that were pierced for each of us and recognize him as the Son of God. God is just and he is for the entire world. I have gotten a little too preachy and this may not be beneficial to this thread.
I enjoy the Camino and I am grateful that it seems to call to people from all over the world. I appreciate that regardless of reason, all are welcomed. Whether St. James is really in Santiago de Compostela is irrelevant; what is important is how much light it brings into the world. I am also grateful that we can find the Savior in each and every pelerin that walks. It would be my prayer that we may never stop being les pelerins and that we always carry the Camino with us.
His peace upon you always,
Mike
[20] announcements-your-feedback/topic6368.html#p38549 Re: Ivar and Xacobeo 2010 - flyer on history Saint James in Holy Year 2010 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 29th, 2009
Hi Ivar,
Wonderful! Congratulations on this inspiring job!
May I grasp the opportunity to present a suggestion to the Xacobeo organisation to surprize the Santiago pilgrim community with a flyer on the history of Saint James in the next Holy Year 2010?
I think it can all be told in a few phrases, but we've all witnessed on the forum how hard it is to get the experts to explain this ultimate but simple question in a short answer in simple language.
Blessings!
Geert
Today the view count on The Santiago Enigma on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html passed 6.000 so it's time to explain what happened a quarter of a century ago sitting with my back to the wall opposite of the Pórtico de la Gloria. After about an hour enjoying all that beauty I suddenly saw the meaning or message: those spiritual, rather 'blank' exalted faces of Christ in Majesty, James Major and Minor worked to me as a mirror, inviting me to look through their eyes -as it were- at my self, at what I am and what I stand for in this House of God.
It came completely out of the blue; I was not prepared for such an intimate existential happening. All I knew at that precious moment was that it was right, no matter what anybody should think or say of it. The first decades I let it rest and ripe and only when I entered this forum I started to write about The Santiago Enigma.
In the beginning especially Tracy Saunders and Gareth Thomas helped a lot to make this tread into what it is today but now it's time to close it after giving some last clues in The Santiago Enigma - clues on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6469.html and Pórtico de la Gloria - gateway into Divine Revelation on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6481.html .
In miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p20890 Gareth gave some good advice to be careful with explaining facial similarities in the Gloria. That's right but with all due respect it is also a little beside my point. * This is not about my interpretation of Master Mateo's (or his commissioners) intentions and masterwork but about my initial experience:
This is more on form than content.
More on iconography than religion!
On how ancient messages are passed.
On reading a medieval stone bible.
And seeing what you’re looking at:
For inspiration
Once upon a time a French museum showed a painting of a bouquet in a bucket.
One beautiful Spring day a child said to its parents: ‘Look, those two are kissing!’
Indeed: In the water between the stems of the flowers a loving pair was reflected.
Like in a distant mirror - No one could remember if anyone had seen that before…
Vézelay
Before going to Vézelay I attended a lecture by History of Art professor Raoul Bauer at Ghent university who explained that in this Vézelay tympanum for the first time in medieval architecture Christ is depicted as a symbol of love. Not as our judge on the youngest day anymore like in older churches. That content is given form in the sculpting of Christ in the tympanum as well as in the overall architecture of this abbey church allowing a lot of sunlight inside. No more ‘medieval’ darkness as before. For me that struck the right tone in this great spiritual voyage of discovering The Santiago Enigma. See the Romanesque tympanum of Vézelay Abbey, 1130s. in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tympanum_% ... tecture%29 .
Daniel (you immediately recognize him by his right foot of which only the toes touch base)
It began a quarter of a century ago in Spring 1983 when I suddenly got Master Mateo’s message in his Pórtico de la Gloria. Daniel led the Way. His beautiful beaming face and his famous smile (La sonrisa de Daniel *) shows so much power, realism and plain human interest that there can hardly be any doubt of the intentions of Mateo or his commissioners. This message is very manyfold, visible, loud and clear: crystal clear. Anyone can see it. Content and form are one; as in Vézelay. * See the polyglot http://consellodacultura.org/wp-content ... orriso.pdf with Galicia, the smile of Daniel in English translation.
Santiago
Arriving at Plaza de Obradoiro and entering the cathedral brought -to my own big surprise- tears to my eyes. As professional pilgrim I had read a lot about Santiago to pass that information onto our Dutch pilgrims but being on the spot was something else… First it struck me how almost overwhelmingly present Saint James is in his own House. I had never seen that with patrons in other churches. Then, back to the wall in the narthex, it happened and it hit me hard.
Suddenly I noticed that the faces of Saint James on his trumeau and above him in the tympanum Christ in his Gloria -in contrast to Daniel’s unicity- looked very much the same. They ‘said’ the same to me. All at once both their messages looked very identical. Now why was that? Why such a significant accent? Was that an extra signal? How could that be? Not a discretion of Master Mateo of course, but could it really have been intended by his authorities? It took me years to figure that out and to put this jigsaw puzzle together. Those two faces seemed to stare directly at me passing their identical message: you are not just watching Me, you are seeing yourself! It felt like looking in a distant mirror and coming home.
Reading on the twin principle in the cult of Santiago in The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King was a major help. One small inconspicuous six-word note on page 489 in Volume III already said it: “He is the twin of Christ.” * But could that be taken so literally? I think this is a good time and place for the experts to step in. Anyway, in my view the historical origin of James in Santiago is very debatable, but all these arguments slowly completed the picture over the years and filled some of the gaps in my private amateur understanding. The multitude and the various ways in which James is presented there confirmes that he was an important man which we also know from his life time history. [* Later on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6286.html?hilit=enigma#p37089 the late Alan Joyce explained that in his vision Ms King was wrong here, but I'm not in a position to argue!]from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland:
… for this curious child was very fond of pretending to be two people.
Myth busted!
Last year I promised a handful of good pilgrim friends a nice lunch after returning from their pilgrimage when they would confirm what I imagined. Soon two came close and one got very close when he stated that painting and sculpting identical faces was common practice in those early years of pilgrimage. But in this very special case with that very expressive radiant face of Daniel’s that explanation was too close for comfort. In the weekend when Tracy went to Santiago and Gareth to his own Gloria in London, and this Enigma could evaporate any minute, I prepared this apologia. It was a lovely long and mystical journey. Thank you for reading it!
Main question still open
Now, more than a year later, the enigma is busted but the main question How a jewish apostle converted posthumously into a catholic saint? has not yet been answered here; see: http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
Anyone? :wink:
Reactions - [21 from 24-30 July 2009] - [highlighting above and below by me -gb]
[1] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35425 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina
[2] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35426 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... Geert
[3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5340 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina
[4] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5341 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... - Geert
[5] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38251 by Priscillian: A warning: Forum members: a lot of you might not like what I have written here, but for those of you who have been around for a while, you will know that I don't pull my punches. I will probably only hear from those of you who disagree with me, and that's OK. I can take it. But the rest of you, if what I write here resonates with you - only some of my thoughts after 240 kms and sore feet and back, and plenty of time for reflection - please also, do comment. (...)
[6] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38256 by PILGRIMSPLAZA: Dear Tracy, I'm so glad that you apparently arrived in Santiago in good health (apart from the usual aches and pains that will soon disappear) and high spirits and I'm very honoured to get a reaction so quickly after your arrival! - I do hope that we can discuss this post on my sacred Lemeler Mountain one day to see what has stayed and what has changed in your views now and then. For the time being I would like to comment on a few of your lines (...)
[7] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38257 by MichaelB10398: Priscillian, I enjoy your writing; there is enough passion and fire in it to light the path of the entire Camino Frances. I am not a Catholic, but I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and a seeker of truth. I have studied religion for over 40 years and know more than most the wickedness done in the name of the church or religion in general. Yet, within Catholicism one can find some of the choicest of examples of true Christianity. The depth and breadth of theology, religious expression, and piety are not easily reproduced in the world. There is much to be cherished and should be cherished. (...)
[8] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian:
Michael, you are so right!MichaelB10398 wrote: Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil.
I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere between Passion and Righteous Indignation, but the first is easily misunderstood as fanaticism and the second is Exactly What I Have Been Struggling Against on this Camino. My mother taught me that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Always listen to your mother!
[9] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5342 - Re: Santiago Enigma busted - main question still open - ... Not to be pedantic, but some would argue the "Catholic all until Luther" statement. Most of them would be about 300 million Orthodox Christians, who say... - Rebekah
[10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5343 - ... Oooh, I like that! claire _ http://acatholicwomansplace.blogspot.com ... - claire bangasser
[11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5344 - ...Very well said. I agree. Ray To: saintjames@yahoogroups.com From: grilly@... - Subject: Re: [saintjames] Re:... - Raymond Francis
[12] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38377 by TerryB:
Hi Mike,MichaelB10398 wrote: One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves in a position where the Living water always flows. Peace be unto you, Mike
Is that sentence a 'typo'? should it not say:- "a cup that doesn't run over will never receive more water"? Better to avoid the double negative and be positive :- " A cup that runs over will always receive more water!"
A good motto for pilgrims of whatever sort. We need to give to receive. Basic teaching by our Lord Jesus but so often forgotten or ignored by His followers. Shame on us! Or as the Catholic Church would say 'Mea Culpa'.
I am fascinated by the theories shared on this thread. Would the message of the Portico need to be read by all who entered or was it only for those who had the 'key'? My own feeling is that it is a sermon in stone like the glorious carvings in the Chapter House at Salisbury cathedral and mediaeval wall paintings.
Keep thinking! - Blessings on your coming and going - Tio Tel - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored.
[13] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38387 by Priscillian: No, I know of a Zen story which goes something like this: A wealthy industrialist went to see a wise sage. The sage poured him tea and began to tell him a little about the Way of Zen but the businessman kept on interrupting with his own - contradictory - ideas. The wise man continued to pour the tea until the businessman said: "Stop pouring! Can't you see that the cup is full?" - "Yes, I can see that," said the Sage, "and like you because it is full, no more can enter in...." - Tracy
[14] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian - Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil. Michael, you are so right! I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere betwe...
[15] discuss-news-from-santiago/topic6569.html#p38391 - Rare glimpse of the heavens - Portico del Gloria by sillydoll who graciously pointed at http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 62077.html - Santiago Notebook: A rare glimpse of the heavens - By Elizabeth Nash - I looked into the eyes of God, and they seemed kind and alert. I raised my hand to his cheek, but was warned not to touch. After all, he was 800 years old and his skin was flaking off. The Portico of Glory of Santiago de Compostela's cathedral in northwest Spain, hailed by Jan Morris as "unquestionably one of the great buildings of the world", has been admired by pilgrims to the supposed shrine of Saint James since the 12th century. - But apart from the stonemasons of the time (and a 17th-century artist who touched up the colour) few have seen the magnificent portrayal of Judgment Day as close up as I did last week. After more than eight centuries, this jewel of European Romanesque architecture is being restored. (…) Thank you, Sil!
[15a] My comment on the article http://opinion.independentminds.livejou ... #t10781901
[16] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38456 - My pilgrim friend Jeroen Gooskens mailed this reaction that (knowing him) is very special and precious to me:
http://www.compostela.nl - Jeroen's websiteDear pilgrim Geert,
Congratulations with the elucidation of the secret on Santiago’s Day. Man as twin of God who mirrors Him. Does the quest to the hidden source not always lead along the path of our own history? The melody of the eternal listening in the quiet, sometimes restless, rhythm of our own heartbeat as long as it may last?
A smile from home to home.
Jeroen Gooskens
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=45 - Jeroen's own pilgrim’s book 1998
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=42 - Jeroen's King review
[17] ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=12231 PM from TerryB: Hello again Geert, i have always been interested in the 'Hereford School' of architecture. Supposedly set up by a Norman knight who had been to Compostela on pilgrimage and 'imported' one of their architects. A few links for you so that you can see what I mean!
http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666/
http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley
I am never sure about Wikipedia but at least it gives you a start. Eardisley font is one of the best that I have seen. A mixture of celtic (Wales and Romanesque) I will look round for pics for you when I have time. - Blessings - Terry - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored. - TerryB
- http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html - Kilpeck church - Considering the great skill of the carvers, it is surprising that the figures over the doorway are not centred: the middle larger voussoir is off-centre as is the 'Lamb of God' on the corbel above. There is a lack of symmetry throughout the church, both inside and out, which gives it a unique local Herefordshire quality.
- http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm - Kilpeck Church and Abbey Dore - Much of the work at Kilpeck is unique in Britain, and it is widely accepted as the best example of the 'Herefordshire School' style of carving.
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666 - Brinsop - St George fights the dragon by the light of stained glass . Norman c.1150 - Herefordshire, England.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley - Eardisley is a village in the county of Herefordshire, England. - Eardisley is also well-known for its fine church font. A Norman font of the Herefordshire School, carved with allegorical figures, it bears some resemblance to the carvings at Kilpeck in south Herefordshire. It is particularly notable for its combination of intricate Celtic knotwork patterns with Norman figures, and remains used for baptisms.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral - The chapter house is notable for its octagonal shape, slender central pillar and decorative mediæval frieze. The frieze circles the interior, just above the stalls, and depicts scenes and stories from the books of Genesis and Exodus, including Adam and Eve, Noah, the Tower of Babel, and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
[18] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38472 by Priscillian:
- Indeed it is, Terry, along with the Koran, The Kabbalah, The Tao te Ching, and an awful lot of material on Buddhism. I believe in hedging my bets!!! - PriscillianThe Nag Hammadi Library is on my bookshelves - I hope the Jewish / Christian Bible is on yours! Walk well and safely - Terry
[19] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38478 - by MichaelB10398 - Tracy, it seems like we have similar libraries. I have attempted to collect a copy of every holy book the world uses and to read them.
I believe there is one God and as such all truth comes from him regardless of which religion it is found. Further, I believe that God will judge all of his children based upon the truth that they have been given and how they lived it. I am writing in a broad manner and do not wish to get into the topic of sanctification and related topics. Suffice it to say I think a lot of Christians will be surprised on who is sitting next to them in Heaven.
On the other hand, I would also say that all will have the opportunity to come unto Christ. They will see the hands that were pierced for each of us and recognize him as the Son of God. God is just and he is for the entire world. I have gotten a little too preachy and this may not be beneficial to this thread.
I enjoy the Camino and I am grateful that it seems to call to people from all over the world. I appreciate that regardless of reason, all are welcomed. Whether St. James is really in Santiago de Compostela is irrelevant; what is important is how much light it brings into the world. I am also grateful that we can find the Savior in each and every pelerin that walks. It would be my prayer that we may never stop being les pelerins and that we always carry the Camino with us.
His peace upon you always,
Mike
[20] announcements-your-feedback/topic6368.html#p38549 Re: Ivar and Xacobeo 2010 - flyer on history Saint James in Holy Year 2010 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 29th, 2009
Hi Ivar,
Wonderful! Congratulations on this inspiring job!
May I grasp the opportunity to present a suggestion to the Xacobeo organisation to surprize the Santiago pilgrim community with a flyer on the history of Saint James in the next Holy Year 2010?
I think it can all be told in a few phrases, but we've all witnessed on the forum how hard it is to get the experts to explain this ultimate but simple question in a short answer in simple language.
Blessings!
Geert