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The Santiago Enigma - the last post

PILGRIMSPLAZA

Active Member
“Only speak when it supports silence!”

Today the view count on The Santiago Enigma on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html passed 6.000 so it's time to explain what happened a quarter of a century ago sitting with my back to the wall opposite of the Pórtico de la Gloria. After about an hour enjoying all that beauty I suddenly saw the meaning or message: those spiritual, rather 'blank' exalted faces of Christ in Majesty, James Major and Minor worked to me as a mirror, inviting me to look through their eyes -as it were- at my self, at what I am and what I stand for in this House of God.

It came completely out of the blue; I was not prepared for such an intimate existential happening. All I knew at that precious moment was that it was right, no matter what anybody should think or say of it. The first decades I let it rest and ripe and only when I entered this forum I started to write about The Santiago Enigma.

In the beginning especially Tracy Saunders and Gareth Thomas helped a lot to make this tread into what it is today but now it's time to close it after giving some last clues in The Santiago Enigma - clues on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6469.html and Pórtico de la Gloria - gateway into Divine Revelation on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6481.html .

In miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p20890 Gareth gave some good advice to be careful with explaining facial similarities in the Gloria. That's right but with all due respect it is also a little beside my point. * This is not about my interpretation of Master Mateo's (or his commissioners) intentions and masterwork but about my initial experience:

This is more on form than content.
More on iconography than religion!
On how ancient messages are passed.
On reading a medieval stone bible.
And seeing what you’re looking at:


For inspiration
Once upon a time a French museum showed a painting of a bouquet in a bucket.
One beautiful Spring day a child said to its parents: ‘Look, those two are kissing!’
Indeed: In the water between the stems of the flowers a loving pair was reflected.
Like in a distant mirror - No one could remember if anyone had seen that before…


Vézelay
Before going to Vézelay I attended a lecture by History of Art professor Raoul Bauer at Ghent university who explained that in this Vézelay tympanum for the first time in medieval architecture Christ is depicted as a symbol of love. Not as our judge on the youngest day anymore like in older churches. That content is given form in the sculpting of Christ in the tympanum as well as in the overall architecture of this abbey church allowing a lot of sunlight inside. No more ‘medieval’ darkness as before. For me that struck the right tone in this great spiritual voyage of discovering The Santiago Enigma. See the Romanesque tympanum of Vézelay Abbey, 1130s. in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tympanum_% ... tecture%29 .

Daniel (you immediately recognize him by his right foot of which only the toes touch base)
It began a quarter of a century ago in Spring 1983 when I suddenly got Master Mateo’s message in his Pórtico de la Gloria. Daniel led the Way. His beautiful beaming face and his famous smile (La sonrisa de Daniel *) shows so much power, realism and plain human interest that there can hardly be any doubt of the intentions of Mateo or his commissioners. This message is very manyfold, visible, loud and clear: crystal clear. Anyone can see it. Content and form are one; as in Vézelay. * See the polyglot http://consellodacultura.org/wp-content ... orriso.pdf with Galicia, the smile of Daniel in English translation.

Santiago
Arriving at Plaza de Obradoiro and entering the cathedral brought -to my own big surprise- tears to my eyes. As professional pilgrim I had read a lot about Santiago to pass that information onto our Dutch pilgrims but being on the spot was something else… First it struck me how almost overwhelmingly present Saint James is in his own House. I had never seen that with patrons in other churches. Then, back to the wall in the narthex, it happened and it hit me hard.

Suddenly I noticed that the faces of Saint James on his trumeau and above him in the tympanum Christ in his Gloria -in contrast to Daniel’s unicity- looked very much the same. They ‘said’ the same to me. All at once both their messages looked very identical. Now why was that? Why such a significant accent? Was that an extra signal? How could that be? Not a discretion of Master Mateo of course, but could it really have been intended by his authorities? It took me years to figure that out and to put this jigsaw puzzle together. Those two faces seemed to stare directly at me passing their identical message: you are not just watching Me, you are seeing yourself! It felt like looking in a distant mirror and coming home.
from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland:
… for this curious child was very fond of pretending to be two people.
Reading on the twin principle in the cult of Santiago in The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King was a major help. One small inconspicuous six-word note on page 489 in Volume III already said it: “He is the twin of Christ.* But could that be taken so literally? I think this is a good time and place for the experts to step in. Anyway, in my view the historical origin of James in Santiago is very debatable, but all these arguments slowly completed the picture over the years and filled some of the gaps in my private amateur understanding. The multitude and the various ways in which James is presented there confirmes that he was an important man which we also know from his life time history. [* Later on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6286.html?hilit=enigma#p37089 the late Alan Joyce explained that in his vision Ms King was wrong here, but I'm not in a position to argue!]

Myth busted!
Last year I promised a handful of good pilgrim friends a nice lunch after returning from their pilgrimage when they would confirm what I imagined. Soon two came close and one got very close when he stated that painting and sculpting identical faces was common practice in those early years of pilgrimage. But in this very special case with that very expressive radiant face of Daniel’s that explanation was too close for comfort. In the weekend when Tracy went to Santiago and Gareth to his own Gloria in London, and this Enigma could evaporate any minute, I prepared this apologia. It was a lovely long and mystical journey. Thank you for reading it!

Main question still open

Now, more than a year later, the enigma is busted but the main question How a jewish apostle converted posthumously into a catholic saint? has not yet been answered here; see: http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
Anyone? :wink:

Reactions - [21 from 24-30 July 2009] - [highlighting above and below by me -gb]

[1] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35425 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina

[2] http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/camino ... sage/35426 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... Geert

[3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5340 - The answer to your question is ever so self-evident: that Jewish-born fisherman, James the elder, became a Christian in his lifetime , and an Apostle of... - Rosina

[4] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5341 - "The answer to your question is ever so self-evident" Thank you, Rosina, you're the first to answer a simpel question that wasn't self-evident for me at all,... - Geert

[5] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38251 by Priscillian: A warning: Forum members: a lot of you might not like what I have written here, but for those of you who have been around for a while, you will know that I don't pull my punches. I will probably only hear from those of you who disagree with me, and that's OK. I can take it. But the rest of you, if what I write here resonates with you - only some of my thoughts after 240 kms and sore feet and back, and plenty of time for reflection - please also, do comment. (...)

[6] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38256 by PILGRIMSPLAZA: Dear Tracy, I'm so glad that you apparently arrived in Santiago in good health (apart from the usual aches and pains that will soon disappear) and high spirits and I'm very honoured to get a reaction so quickly after your arrival! - I do hope that we can discuss this post on my sacred Lemeler Mountain one day to see what has stayed and what has changed in your views now and then. For the time being I would like to comment on a few of your lines (...)

[7] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38257 by MichaelB10398: Priscillian, I enjoy your writing; there is enough passion and fire in it to light the path of the entire Camino Frances. I am not a Catholic, but I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and a seeker of truth. I have studied religion for over 40 years and know more than most the wickedness done in the name of the church or religion in general. Yet, within Catholicism one can find some of the choicest of examples of true Christianity. The depth and breadth of theology, religious expression, and piety are not easily reproduced in the world. There is much to be cherished and should be cherished. (...)

[8] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian:
MichaelB10398 wrote: Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil.
Michael, you are so right!
I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere between Passion and Righteous Indignation, but the first is easily misunderstood as fanaticism and the second is Exactly What I Have Been Struggling Against on this Camino. My mother taught me that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Always listen to your mother!

[9] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5342 - Re: Santiago Enigma busted - main question still open - ... Not to be pedantic, but some would argue the "Catholic all until Luther" statement. Most of them would be about 300 million Orthodox Christians, who say... - Rebekah

[10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5343 - ... Oooh, I like that! claire _ http://acatholicwomansplace.blogspot.com ... - claire bangasser

[11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/message/5344 - ...Very well said. I agree. Ray To: saintjames@yahoogroups.com From: grilly@... - Subject: Re: [saintjames] Re:... - Raymond Francis

[12] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38377 by TerryB:
MichaelB10398 wrote: One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves in a position where the Living water always flows. Peace be unto you, Mike
Hi Mike,
Is that sentence a 'typo'? should it not say:- "a cup that doesn't run over will never receive more water"? Better to avoid the double negative and be positive :- " A cup that runs over will always receive more water!"
A good motto for pilgrims of whatever sort. We need to give to receive. Basic teaching by our Lord Jesus but so often forgotten or ignored by His followers. Shame on us! Or as the Catholic Church would say 'Mea Culpa'.
I am fascinated by the theories shared on this thread. Would the message of the Portico need to be read by all who entered or was it only for those who had the 'key'? My own feeling is that it is a sermon in stone like the glorious carvings in the Chapter House at Salisbury cathedral and mediaeval wall paintings.
Keep thinking! - Blessings on your coming and going - Tio Tel - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored.

[13] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38387 by Priscillian: No, I know of a Zen story which goes something like this: A wealthy industrialist went to see a wise sage. The sage poured him tea and began to tell him a little about the Way of Zen but the businessman kept on interrupting with his own - contradictory - ideas. The wise man continued to pour the tea until the businessman said: "Stop pouring! Can't you see that the cup is full?" - "Yes, I can see that," said the Sage, "and like you because it is full, no more can enter in...." - Tracy

[14] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38298 by Priscillian - Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil. Michael, you are so right! I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere betwe...

[15] discuss-news-from-santiago/topic6569.html#p38391 - Rare glimpse of the heavens - Portico del Gloria by sillydoll who graciously pointed at http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 62077.html - Santiago Notebook: A rare glimpse of the heavens - By Elizabeth Nash - I looked into the eyes of God, and they seemed kind and alert. I raised my hand to his cheek, but was warned not to touch. After all, he was 800 years old and his skin was flaking off. The Portico of Glory of Santiago de Compostela's cathedral in northwest Spain, hailed by Jan Morris as "unquestionably one of the great buildings of the world", has been admired by pilgrims to the supposed shrine of Saint James since the 12th century. - But apart from the stonemasons of the time (and a 17th-century artist who touched up the colour) few have seen the magnificent portrayal of Judgment Day as close up as I did last week. After more than eight centuries, this jewel of European Romanesque architecture is being restored. (…) Thank you, Sil!

[15a] My comment on the article http://opinion.independentminds.livejou ... #t10781901

[16] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38456 - My pilgrim friend Jeroen Gooskens mailed this reaction that (knowing him) is very special and precious to me:
Dear pilgrim Geert,
Congratulations with the elucidation of the secret on Santiago’s Day. Man as twin of God who mirrors Him. Does the quest to the hidden source not always lead along the path of our own history? The melody of the eternal listening in the quiet, sometimes restless, rhythm of our own heartbeat as long as it may last?
A smile from home to home.
Jeroen Gooskens
http://www.compostela.nl - Jeroen's website
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=45 - Jeroen's own pilgrim’s book 1998
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=42 - Jeroen's King review

[17] ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=12231 PM from TerryB: Hello again Geert, i have always been interested in the 'Hereford School' of architecture. Supposedly set up by a Norman knight who had been to Compostela on pilgrimage and 'imported' one of their architects. A few links for you so that you can see what I mean!
http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666/
http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley
I am never sure about Wikipedia but at least it gives you a start. Eardisley font is one of the best that I have seen. A mixture of celtic (Wales and Romanesque) I will look round for pics for you when I have time. - Blessings - Terry - The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored. - TerryB

- http://www.hoary.org/snaps/engl/kilp.html - Kilpeck church - Considering the great skill of the carvers, it is surprising that the figures over the doorway are not centred: the middle larger voussoir is off-centre as is the 'Lamb of God' on the corbel above. There is a lack of symmetry throughout the church, both inside and out, which gives it a unique local Herefordshire quality.
- http://www.swagonline.plus.com/kilpeck_ ... _sep06.htm - Kilpeck Church and Abbey Dore - Much of the work at Kilpeck is unique in Britain, and it is widely accepted as the best example of the 'Herefordshire School' style of carving.
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/2346003666 - Brinsop - St George fights the dragon by the light of stained glass . Norman c.1150 - Herefordshire, England.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eardisley - Eardisley is a village in the county of Herefordshire, England. - Eardisley is also well-known for its fine church font. A Norman font of the Herefordshire School, carved with allegorical figures, it bears some resemblance to the carvings at Kilpeck in south Herefordshire. It is particularly notable for its combination of intricate Celtic knotwork patterns with Norman figures, and remains used for baptisms.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral - The chapter house is notable for its octagonal shape, slender central pillar and decorative mediæval frieze. The frieze circles the interior, just above the stalls, and depicts scenes and stories from the books of Genesis and Exodus, including Adam and Eve, Noah, the Tower of Babel, and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

[18] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38472 by Priscillian:
The Nag Hammadi Library is on my bookshelves - I hope the Jewish / Christian Bible is on yours! Walk well and safely - Terry
- Indeed it is, Terry, along with the Koran, The Kabbalah, The Tao te Ching, and an awful lot of material on Buddhism. I believe in hedging my bets!!! - Priscillian

[19] miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html#p38478 - by MichaelB10398 - Tracy, it seems like we have similar libraries. I have attempted to collect a copy of every holy book the world uses and to read them.
I believe there is one God and as such all truth comes from him regardless of which religion it is found. Further, I believe that God will judge all of his children based upon the truth that they have been given and how they lived it. I am writing in a broad manner and do not wish to get into the topic of sanctification and related topics. Suffice it to say I think a lot of Christians will be surprised on who is sitting next to them in Heaven.
On the other hand, I would also say that all will have the opportunity to come unto Christ. They will see the hands that were pierced for each of us and recognize him as the Son of God. God is just and he is for the entire world. I have gotten a little too preachy and this may not be beneficial to this thread.
I enjoy the Camino and I am grateful that it seems to call to people from all over the world. I appreciate that regardless of reason, all are welcomed. Whether St. James is really in Santiago de Compostela is irrelevant; what is important is how much light it brings into the world. I am also grateful that we can find the Savior in each and every pelerin that walks. It would be my prayer that we may never stop being les pelerins and that we always carry the Camino with us.
His peace upon you always,
Mike

[20] announcements-your-feedback/topic6368.html#p38549 Re: Ivar and Xacobeo 2010 - flyer on history Saint James in Holy Year 2010 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 29th, 2009
Hi Ivar,
Wonderful! Congratulations on this inspiring job!
May I grasp the opportunity to present a suggestion to the Xacobeo organisation to surprize the Santiago pilgrim community with a flyer on the history of Saint James in the next Holy Year 2010?
I think it can all be told in a few phrases, but we've all witnessed on the forum how hard it is to get the experts to explain this ultimate but simple question in a short answer in simple language.
Blessings!
Geert
 

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Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post

A warning:
Forum members: a lot of you might not like what I have written here, but for those of you who have been around for a while, you will know that I don't pull my punches. I will probably only hear from those of you who disagree with me, and that's OK. I can take it. But the rest of you, if what I write here resonates with you - only some of my thoughts after 240 kms and sore feet and back, and plenty of time for reflection - please also, do comment.

Dear Geert,
I write this just around the corner from the Portico de Gloria. As well as being shrouded (word?) in mystery, it is also now shrouded in scaffolding! It is being "renovated": May God preserve us perhaps even repainted! I have yet to see any of it up close but you can be sure I am working on it!

I asked Don Rafael at the bookshop Follas Novas - one of the foremost experts in the world - about the Portico (he has literally "written the book" on it) whether the Portico had any deeper meaning and he was emphatic that yes, it did. I have written more about this encounter on my blog http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com and have a copy of his book which I shall be reading, no doubt rather slowly, this week that I am in Compostela. I still haven't read King, but will order it when I get back.
So many questions, so little time...
We are in the 21st century and we are literate. We no longer need the various members of the hierarchy of the church to interpret our faith for us, to tell us our questions, to filter our "answers" through dogma and superstition. Unless we are completely indoctrinated from birth (get 'em young) we begin to sideline God along with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny by 13. We get to the age when we question in our teens and then we abandon the proverbial baby with the bathwater. What a terrible shame! We are left with spiritual yearnings that last us the rest of our lives and we don't even know why! No wonder there are so many pilgrims looking for answers to their spiritual questions having not abandoned, but been abandoned by "religion". This morning in Mass, in the reading out of pilgrims who completed yesterday, the overwhelming majority of people and places who had completed their "Pilgrimage" came from outside of Spain, and many, if not most of those came from non-Catholic countries. As far as away as Korea, even Cuba!
There are many enigmas here: we are only allowed to know what is expedient. For example, this morning during the Pilgrim Mass I sat "beside" Santa Susana. I would have chosen this anyway but there was no-where else to sit as most of the spaces were taken up by tourists. Many, many pilgrims had to miss their own mass because of the line ups outside. There was also, as I have mentioned an enormous "cola" of people waiting to "hug the Saint" and it occurred to me that we love our superstitions: a quick hug for luck seems to beat the idea of confession, the boxes were empty.
Back to Susana: There is not so much as a note beside her Capilla to identify her (known as the Capilla de San Juan, whereas she clearly is the focus). If you make an offering to light a candle for intercession, you do not know to whom you pray. Yet people did so, perhaps because of the irresistable attraction of her "fuerza" with her palm branch and her sword. I watched people come to photograph her beautiful strong defiant face while they were waiting. To a few, I divulged her identity. In front of me was a VERY long line to hug the Saint. Susana was more or less ignored, and yet she is the co-patron of this city! And it is this city's Day. And we know for sure that her relics are here, somewhere. How do we know? Because Diego Gelmirez stole them (amongst others) from Braga in the early part of the 12th century!
But that is another story. One I intend to tell!
The enigma lives on, Geert. The enigmas live on. Why so much attention to a saint purported to have "killed 50,000 moors in one day" (NOT: the history doesn't even coincide, let alone the "miracle")? Why none to a woman who gave her life for her faith as a Martyr and whose beautiful statue remains virtually unvisited? Permanently "desconocido"? Not even marked in the city to which she is Co-Patron along with St. James.
To your final question:
Quote: How (was) a Jewish apostle converted posthumously into a Catholic saint (?).
How was an Essene converted into an excuse for so many wars - against ""heretics" such as Priscillian, against "the Infidel", against the Cathars, against the "Indians" of Central and South America; against women who are not "virginal"; not "pure"? (How many Catholics out there still think Mary Magdalene was a prostitute? Even the Catholic church admitted that "error" in transcription 40 years ago!) (Ah, but I forget Papal Infallibility...)
I could say that Christ would turn in His grave...
But even I won't go that far....
I Remain,
A Happy Heretic,
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
 

PILGRIMSPLAZA

Active Member
Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post

Dear Tracy,

I'm so glad that you apparently arrived in Santiago in good health (apart from the usual aches and pains that will soon disappear) and high spirits and I'm very honoured to get a reaction so quickly after your arrival!

I do hope that we can discuss this post on my sacred Lemeler Mountain one day to see what has stayed and what has changed in your views now and then. For the time being I would like to comment on a few of your lines:
deeper meaning
What excites me most about this deeper meaning is the fact that is has not yet been produced on a rich and warm forum where even the seize of pillows is discussed. Of course there is an iconographic program, but the question is in which library it lies hidden. All greater churches had a Via Dolorosa and other carvings to be read by the illiterates as a stone bible.

That is not a surprise. My surprise was that the Pórtico hit me - a layman and a heathen- so hard! Today I posted more on the iconographic program of the west Pórtico and the south entrance. I'm even more surprised that there is so little written on these subjects in this forum where almost no subject is forgotten (apart from that other main question)! But, who knows: also your reaction may help a lot to trigger others.
spiritual yearnings
I think I understand what you mean, although I'm coming from the other far end of the spectrum. Only on holiday in Israël some 10 years ago a great many puzzle pieces fell in place. We had a very good state employed guide (a young Jew from Amsterdam) who explained that all historic places and events had at least two sites and explanations. That was a first class eye-opener! Jerusalem was wrecked a few times so nobody knows for sure where the Via Dolorosa runs, although you are not far from the original Way of course. I understood that only the location of Nazareth is unquestioned because there is no other well in the area.
The enigma lives on.
I can hardly believe that it will stay unclosed for long! I'm quite confident that some day a new pilgrim (or an old veteran) will get excited and interested too and join the search. And I do hope (and would like to trust) that the Vatican will also consider that the next Holy Year 2010 will be a nice occasion to present the flock with a nice flyer answering a simple question in a simple language. Pilgrims, unite and activate your bridgeheads!
I could say that Christ would turn in His grave... But even I won't go that far.... -
The enigma is also about what those similar faces of the Christ in Majesty and the two James's together really represent in that Gloria. I could say it but even I won't go that far....
... as this is more on form than content. More on iconography than religion! On how ancient messages are passed. On reading a medieval stone bible. And seeing what you’re looking at.
A Happy Heretic
As I already confessed on this forum: I really would like to join the flock but all these unanswered questions make it difficult, but then again: believing is not a reward but a grace, a blessing; a mystic miracle.

Enjoy a nice Santiago Evening!
Brassa!
Geerτ

miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6469.html - The Santiago Enigma - clues
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6481.html - Pórtico - gateway into Divine Revelation
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6491.html - The Santiago Enigma - the last post
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6512.html - Pórtico de la Gloria - iconographic program
 

MichaelB10398

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post

Priscillian, I enjoy your writing; there is enough passion and fire in it to light the path of the entire Camino Frances. I am not a Catholic, but I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and a seeker of truth. I have studied religion for over 40 years and know more than most the wickedness done in the name of the church or religion in general. Yet, within Catholicism one can find some of the choicest of examples of true Christianity. The depth and breadth of theology, religious expression, and piety are not easily reproduced in the world. There is much to be cherished and should be cherished.

As we move through the world we must chose how we walk. To be a critic is not such a bad thing, but it is one that demands an extreme degree of discipline if one is not to be swallowed by that same fire of criticism. Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil.

A possible better path might be to emulate the fisherman who uses a net. The netting has been precisely made to catch the targeted fish and every thing else melts away between the holes. For you, you will have only the truth that remains and you have ignored the rest...and your passion is demonstrated by your love of the truth you hold. It is a different way of doing things, but it is one that will never result in being burned. The focus becomes the truth rather than the indignity found by the critic.

In religion one finds many paths; necessary paths because we are all individuals. As we get closer to true religion we will all eventually merge into a single path, but that may not be in this life for many of us. We must learn to appreciate each of those paths tread by others...because it is their path and God leads them as he leads us. Reverence their choice, share your truth, seek the truth wherever found, and embrace it as your own. The best Way forward will always result in a soulful peace; one that humbles the heart as it increases spiritual joy.

This is getting a little too preachy, forgive me. One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves in a position where the Living water always flows. Peace be unto you,

Mike
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post

MichaelB10398 said:
Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil.

Michael, you are so right!
I had hoped that my words were pinpointed somewhere between Passion and Righteous Indignation, but the first is easily misunderstood as fanaticism and the second is Exactly What I Have Been Struggling Against on this Camino.
My mother taught me that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Always listen to your mother!
 

TerryB

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte/Primitivo (April/May) 2009: Norte/Primitivo (parts) (April/May) 2010: Inglés (May) 2011: Primitivo (April/May) 2012: Norte / Camino de La Reina (April/May) 2013: Camino del Mar / Inglés (May/June) 2015
Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post

MichaelB10398 said:
One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves in a position where the Living water always flows. Peace be unto you,

Mike

Hi Mike,
Is that sentence a 'typo'? should it not say:- "a cup that doesn't run over will never receive more water"? Better to avoid the double negative and be positive :- " A cup that runs over will always receive more water!"
A good motto for pilgrims of whatever sort. We need to give to receive. Basic teaching by our Lord Jesus but so often forgotten or ignored by His followers. Shame on us! Or as the Catholic Church would say 'Mea Culpa'.
I am fascinated by the theories shared on this thread. Would the message of the Portico need to be read by all who entered or was it only for those who had the 'key'? My own feeling is that it is a sermon in stone like the glorious carvings in the Chapter House at Salisbury cathedral and mediaeval wall paintings.
Keep thinking!
Blessings on your coming and going
Tio Tel
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
No, I know of a Zen story which goes something like this:
A wealthy industrialist went to see a wise sage. The sage poured him tea and began to tell him a little about the Way of Zen but the businessman kept on interrupting with his own - contradictory - ideas. The wise man continued to pour the tea until the businessman said: "Stop pouring! Can't you see that the cup is full?"
"Yes, I can see that," said the Sage, "and like you because it is full, no more can enter in...."
Tracy
 

TerryB

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte/Primitivo (April/May) 2009: Norte/Primitivo (parts) (April/May) 2010: Inglés (May) 2011: Primitivo (April/May) 2012: Norte / Camino de La Reina (April/May) 2013: Camino del Mar / Inglés (May/June) 2015
Hi Tracy,
I follow a different 'teacher'! Mine wants my cup to be full and running over - flowing out of my heart into the world! The teaching is St. John's Gospel, chapter 7 verses 38 and 39. The same chapter talks about the brothers of Jesus. James and John ???
Keep an open mind on these things. The Nag Hammadi Library is on my bookshelves - I hope the Jewish / Christian Bible is on yours!
Walk well and safely
Terry
 

PILGRIMSPLAZA

Active Member
My pilgrim friend Jeroen Gooskens mailed (and gave permission to post) this reaction that (knowing him) is very special and precious to me:
Dear pilgrim Geert,

Congratulations with the elucidation of the secret on Santiago’s Day. Man as twin of God who mirrors Him. Does the quest to the hidden source not always lead along the path of our own history? The melody of the eternal listening in the quiet, sometimes restless, rhythm of our own heartbeat as long as it may last?

A smile from home to home.
Jeroen Gooskens
http://www.compostela.nl - Jeroen's website
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=45 - Jeroen's own pilgrim’s book 1998
http://compostela.nl/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=42 - Jeroen's King review
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
The Nag Hammadi Library is on my bookshelves - I hope the Jewish / Christian Bible is on yours!
Walk well and safely
Terry[/quote]

Indeed it is, Terry, along with the Koran, The Kabbalah, The Tao te Ching, and an awful lot of material on Buddhism. I believe in hedging my bets!!!
 

MichaelB10398

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
Tracy, it seems like we have similar libraries. I have attempted to collect a copy of every holy book the world uses and to read them.

I believe there is one God and as such all truth comes from him regardless of which religion it is found. Further, I believe that God will judge all of his children based upon the truth that they have been given and how they lived it. I am writing in a broad manner and do not wish to get into the topic of sanctification and related topics. Suffice it to say I think a lot of Christians will be surprised on who is sitting next to them in Heaven.

On the other hand, I would also say that all will have the opportunity to come unto Christ. They will see the hands that were pierced for each of us and recognize him as the Son of God. God is just and he is for the entire world. I have gotten a little too preachy and this may not be beneficial to this thread.

I enjoy the Camino and I am grateful that it seems to call to people from all over the world. I appreciate that regardless of reason, all are welcomed. Whether St. James is really in Santiago de Compostela is irrelevant; what is important is how much light it brings into the world. I am also grateful that we can find the Savior in each and every pelerin that walks. It would be my prayer that we may never stop being les pelerins and that we always carry the Camino with us.

His peace upon you always,

Mike
 

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