Under 15km days from Roncevalles to Santo Domingo but not too short OR seeking the perfect distance (for me).

[MARSKA]

My Camino- CF Sept. 23 to Nov 1, 2023
Dearest Pilgrims, I am trying to come up with under-15km days from Roncevalles to Santo Domingo. I am ok with any type of accommodation but prefer to keep costs on the lower end of the spectrum (trying to avoid hotels). I'm finding it a bit difficult to avoid having too-short days and/or too-long days. I've been training, walking 8.5km 3 days per week and around 4km 3 days per week. It's getting warmer here and I can really tell a difference in how I feel (80F vs 40F days). Worries me a little - along with the altitude change - I live at around 1000ft/300m.

I'm sure there are many pilgrims who have worked through this quandry and I am hopeful that a few of you will read this thread.

I've studied Gronze and also have tried to use godesalco.com (perfect tool but I can't get it to work properly) but I'm still not satisfied with the distances.

I'd love some "sample stages" from anyone who wishes to share! Buen Camino!

 

[J Willhaus]

We almost never walk more than 16 km per day. It can be done easily on the CF.

 

[C clearly]

Do you have a map, for series of maps, for example from Brierley or another guide book, that shows the many towns and accommodations? There really is no trick to planning an itinerary. It is just a matter of patiently going through the process - following along the line of the Camino and picking towns or villages at the right distance.

Godesalco is an excellent tool for that. I think it would be much easier to help you figure out how to use Godesalco than it would be to try to suggest the many combinations of itinerary. How far did you get with the tool and what problem did you encounter? Maybe we can help with that...

 

[trecile]

You might want to reconsider if just over 9 miles is the "perfect distance." If you would have told me before my first Camino that I would be able to easily and regularly walk 10 miles or more a day I would have thought that you were crazy. But now, a 10 mile day on the Camino is more of a rest day. It's not because I'm amazingly fit - I'm mid 60s, and in pretty good shape, but again, not amazingly so.

I think that you will find when your only job for the day (other than washing your clothes) is to walk from point A to point B, that you can walk farther in a day than your think. You may find yourself arriving to a tiny village at 11 am, with the entire rest of the day in front of you with not much to do.

I really encourage you to not over plan your Camino. Yes, reserve the first few days, then see how far you can/like to walk each day.

 

[MARSKA]

Do you have a map, for series of maps, for example from Brierley or another guide book, that shows the many towns and accommodations? There really is no trick to planning an itinerary. It is just a matter of patiently going through the process - following along the line of the Camino and picking towns or villages at the right distance.

Godesalco is an excellent tool for that. I think it would be much easier to help you figure out how to use Godesalco than it would be to try to suggest the many combinations of itinerary. How far did you get with the tool and what problem did you encounter? Maybe we can help with that...

I have Brierly and Wise Pilgrim.
I will try to explain my issues with Godesalco.
Well, well...as I was cruising godesalco to try to explain the issues, I thought to switch from English to Spanish ... and Walla! problem solved! Amazing. I need to remember that non-english websites don't always work well in english,

 

[MARSKA]

Spoke too soon. Still cant figure it out.

 

[Ghost Rydurrrr]

i havent tried the sites u mentioned but have been using the free version of wise pilgrim iphone app for all caminos. When u enter into the frances route, it will show each stage and what seevices are available as well as the distance from the next town. The feature that I use the most is holding down on a city and then clicking ok to set it as my starting stage. The distances between cities recalculates and I can easily see which city will be in the range I am targeting.

Another great feature is that at the top, there is an icon to switch to see the elevation map. All the cities are listed and you can see if that particular stage has a lot of hills or is relatively flat and then adjust ur mileage accorcingly.

Good luck and buen camino!!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

You are unlikely to find the perfect length of day every day. When planning I aim for an average distance. Some days longer, some shorter. For instance, some days you will have the choice to walk 11km or 20km. If you insist that all days are less than 15km, your progress will be quite slow.

How long does it take you to walk 8.5km?

Remember, you don't have to walk it all in one go. You can stop and have a rest whenever you want.

 

[dougfitz]

The feature that I use the most is holding down on a city and then clicking ok to set it as my starting stage. The distances between cities recalculates and I can easily see which city will be in the range I am targeting.

I have also done this. Godesalco can be used the same way, but setting a place as the starting point, and looking down the distances to find where you might plan to go, and then selecting that as the new starting point. Wise Pilgrim might make it easier to see what accommodation options there are along the way. Godesalco does not do that.

 

[dougfitz]

I am trying to come up with under-15km days from Roncevalles to Santo Domingo.

I'm not sure I understand your problem. This is quite achievable, although if you applied this rule strictly, many of your days would be quite short, and might not have great accommodation options. There is no magic here - Spain isn't conveniently arranged for a walker by having towns evenly distributed along the Camino routes, and particularly the further east one is, the more dispersed places are.

My own approach would be to take the total distance, 189 km according to Godesalco, allocate perhaps 13 or 14 days to do that based on wanting to do 15 km or less, do a rough check that there are places with accommodation at about the right distances. At that point, work out whether you want to book the first few days or not, but do no more than that. Once you start walking, you will quickly learn whether you want to keep going at this pace, or can do more.

As an aside, if you strictly applied a maximum of 15 km, given the spacing of the towns, it would probably take a minimum of 16 days, 15 if you were prepared to walk an extra kilometre on one day. Many days would be really quite short, less than 10 km. I would find that pace far too slow, but you mightn't.

 

[mspath]

Please do reconsider the fact that each camino day is a 6 way juggle mixing topography and weather plus your own health, pack weight, tenacity and endurance. No 2 days are ever the same; neither are any 2 caminos ever the same.

 

[MARSKA]

You might want to reconsider if just over 9 miles is the "perfect distance." If you would have told me before my first Camino that I would be able to easily and regularly walk 10 miles or more a day I would have thought that you were crazy. But now, a 10 mile day on the Camino is more of a rest day. It's not because I'm amazingly fit - I'm mid 60s, and in pretty good shape, but again, not amazingly so.

I think that you will find when your only job for the day (other than washing your clothes) is to walk from point A to point B, that you can walk farther in a day than your think. You may find yourself arriving to a tiny village at 11 am, with the entire rest of the day in front of you with not much to do.

I really encourage you to not over plan your Camino. Yes, reserve the first few days, then see how far you can/like to walk each day.

Trecile- I sure you are right. My "training" is wedged in between all of the other things I do in a day. If the only thing I need to do is walk...well then .... you must be right because most everyone else walks those distances. Thank you for the encouragement!

 

[MARSKA]

I'm not sure I understand your problem. This is quite achievable, although if you applied this rule strictly, many of your days would be quite short, and might not have great accommodation options. There is no magic here - Spain isn't conveniently arranged for a walker by having towns evenly distributed along the Camino routes, and particularly the further east one is, the more dispersed places are.

My own approach would be to take the total distance, 189 km according to Godesalco, allocate perhaps 13 or 14 days to do that based on wanting to do 15 km or less, do a rough check that there are places with accommodation at about the right distances. At that point, work out whether you want to book the first few days or not, but do no more than that. Once you start walking, you will quickly learn whether you want to keep going at this pace, or can do more.

As an aside, if you strictly applied a maximum of 15 km, given the spacing of the towns, it would probably take a minimum of 16 days, 15 if you were prepared to walk an extra kilometre on one day. Many days would be really quite short, less than 10 km. I would find that pace far too slow, but you mightn't.

Thank you Doug. I'm probably being way too cautious with the miles/day. I've always been rather athletic so I'm sure all will be well. I need to think about why I'm doubting my physical ability this time --- maybe because I'll be walking by myself. And I don't want to cause "problems" for anyone. And of course being older.
Yep I think I just hit the nail on the head.

 

[MARSKA]

How long does it take you to walk 8.5km?

I have an app that I use to track my miles, time, and elevation - it also records the temp and route.

It took me 1hr 30min to walk 5.3 miles (8.5KM) on a cool day with an elevation gain of 267 feet (approx 17 min/mile).

On a hot day it took me 1hr 45min to walk the same distance with an elevation gain of 314 feet (approx 22 min/mile).

I'm walking about 17 to 22 min/mile with elevation gains of 225-350 feet.

I probably need to be more accurate-sometimes I forget to hit "pause" when I stop for a couple of minutes for a drink or to check messages/answer the phone.

 

[MARSKA]

Looks like I am averaging slightly under 5km/hr overall. But thats only for a short period of time and without a pack. Guess I need to bump it up.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I don't think you need to measure your actual walking speed.

The important thing is how long the walk takes (including stops) because that is what you'll be doing. Anyway, it sounds like you shouldn't have any problem walking 18-22km a day if you need to. Of course, you don't have to do it every day.

I aim to average 16km days, with some longer and some shorter.

 

[markie6]

unsure as to whether I am able to link a website ( rules so mods delete if needed )

but I have used santiago dot forwalk.org to map out routes , stages distances etc

 

[dougfitz]

Looks like I am averaging slightly under 5km/hr overall. But thats only for a short period of time and without a pack. Guess I need to bump it up.

I'm not sure why, but that is your call. There are many other things that will bring your overall average down, or increase your walking time for the day. These include the number and duration of any breaks you take. Even just short stops to take a photograph or to have a drink quickly accumulate. Longer breaks at a cafe seem to expand when you get into conversation, check your phone or have to queue for the toilet. In the more distant past, my ratio of walking to stopped time was typically 3:1 over the course of a day's walk of around 6-8 hours. The last couple of years I have been relatively ill-disciplined about keeping breaks shorter, and I noted that last year. This year I kept track, and the ratio had increased to around 9:5, indicating my breaks were roughly 60% longer than in the past. Taking breaks may not be in your control, but how long you take is. A relaxed coffee and a long lunch will do more to increase the overall time each day than small increases in walking speed will reduce that.

The other factor is one I think you might be familiar with, and that is equivalent walking distance, or its reciprocal, equivalent walking speed. A pack will reduce your average speed, but my experience is that hills reduce it more. If you can walk at 5 km/hr on flat terrain, even moderately hilly terrain on any walk might reduce that by 15% to 20%. If you use an approach like Naismith or its variants, you will find that over the equivalent distance, you are still achieving a flat terrain average speed of 5 km/hr.

Note that Brierley's guides do give equivalent walking distances on all their stages, based on the Naismith approach. My own view is that it understates the equivalent distances for people like you who walk regularly at around 5 km/hr. That's another discussion completely.

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't improve your current fitness and walking speed. That would probably be a good thing to do at any time. But keep in mind that once you are on the camino, I expect that there will be other factors come into play, only some of which you can influence, that will extend your walking time each day.

 

[J Willhaus]

You will find your own rhythm and speed. For me it is about my own personal and health issues. I get up early every day even at home. I want/must have coffee. I have some health issues so need to eat something more than carbs. I like to walk about 10 miles a day. This gives me time to get into town, find a place to stay, do laundry, shop, maybe go to church, take a nap, pray, read, talk to others, etc. I am sensitive to heat injuries so walking in the afternoons in the summer is not for me. I am not a particularly fast walker and have short legs. I don't care much about a Camino family and find I meet new people each day because I walk shorter distances. Winter is different and my walking time and distance is less pressured since there is less risk for a heat injury.

So unless we want to stay somewhere specifically, we just walk 10 miles or so and then get a bed. Might be more, might be less. We do look at a map or app to see what is coming up, but because we are early into towns there are usually options. We stay in a lot of small towns as we like that better than bigger cities and stage towns.

Other people emphasize mileage or like to walk later in the heat of the day. We are each different in that way. You will find what works for you. Look at the route, but maybe don't tie yourself to a strict itinerary.

 

[dfox]

I'm finding it a bit difficult to avoid having too-short days and/or too-long days. I've been training, walking 8.5km 3 days per week and around 4km 3 days per week. It's getting warmer here and I can really tell a difference in how I feel (80F vs 40F days). Worries me a little - along with the altitude change - I live at around 1000ft/300m.

Not long ago, I led a group of friends walking CP. There was a lady knowing her limit: roughly 10km a day.

We started at 8:00 am together. After 10 km, say the target mileage for the day, she would visit a cafe and had her favorite beverage/snack, then asked someone in the cafe to arrange a "taxi" for her, then waited for us in the accommodation where all of us stayed.

We were all happy having her joining us even though she could walk less mileage than us in a day.

 

[Jodean]

I planned my Camino like that.
Roncesvalles to Lintzoain to Zubiri to Zabaldika to Pamplona to Uterga to Mañeru to Luquin to Sansol to Logrono to Navarrete to Najera to Santo Domingo.

See if that works for you. We had some great albergues.

 

[trecile]

unsure as to whether I am able to link a website ( rules so mods delete if needed )

but I have used santiago dot forwalk.org to map out routes , stages distances etc

It's okay to provide links so long as you aren't promoting your own business.
I think that you are referring to Forwalk.org

Camino de Santiago guide: routes, stages, maps and km

Discover the Camino de Santiago. You will find a detailed pilgrim’s guide that includes information about the stages with routes map, distance, hostel and tips.

santiago.forwalk.org

 

[Richard Smith]

Looks like I am averaging slightly under 5km/hr overall. But thats only for a short period of time and without a pack. Guess I need to bump it up.

Can I suggest that you take a backpack on your walks (doesn't have to be full weight at first, start light) and aim for 3km/hr or 4 km/hr but leave the timer going when you take short rest or stop to do things.
Then add some hills and extra weight in the pack, don't worry about increasing your speed.

 

[MARSKA]

I need to make sure I'm keeping km's and miles in different compartments in my brain!

A 20 minute mile equals 12:30 minutes per kilometer.

so 16 kilometers will take 192 minutes or 3.2 hrs.

I'm talking to myself here .....

n I suggest that you take a backpack on your walks (doesn't have to be full weight at first, start light) and aim for 3km/hr or 4 km/hr but leave the timer going when you take short rest or stop to do things.
Then add some hills and extra weight in the pack, don't worry about increasing your speed.

Yes I am planning to start walking with my pack but I did not think about leaving the timer on the entire distance. Good idea! (I thought I WAS walking hills...oh boy....)

 

[MARSKA]

I'm not sure why, but that is your call. There are many other things that will bring your overall average down, or increase your walking time for the day. These include the number and duration of any breaks you take. Even just short stops to take a photograph or to have a drink quickly accumulate. Longer breaks at a cafe seem to expand when you get into conversation, check your phone or have to queue for the toilet. In the more distant past, my ratio of walking to stopped time was typically 3:1 over the course of a day's walk of around 6-8 hours. The last couple of years I have been relatively ill-disciplined about keeping breaks shorter, and I noted that last year. This year I kept track, and the ratio had increased to around 9:5, indicating my breaks were roughly 60% longer than in the past. Taking breaks may not be in your control, but how long you take is. A relaxed coffee and a long lunch will do more to increase the overall time each day than small increases in walking speed will reduce that.

The other factor is one I think you might be familiar with, and that is equivalent walking distance, or its reciprocal, equivalent walking speed. A pack will reduce your average speed, but my experience is that hills reduce it more. If you can walk at 5 km/hr on flat terrain, even moderately hilly terrain on any walk might reduce that by 15% to 20%. If you use an approach like Naismith or its variants, you will find that over the equivalent distance, you are still achieving a flat terrain average speed of 5 km/hr.

Note that Brierley's guides do give equivalent walking distances on all their stages, based on the Naismith approach. My own view is that it understates the equivalent distances for people like you who walk regularly at around 5 km/hr. That's another discussion completely.

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't improve your current fitness and walking speed. That would probably be a good thing to do at any time. But keep in mind that once you are on the camino, I expect that there will be other factors come into play, only some of which you can influence, that will extend your walking time each day.

Doug - I LOVE that your breaks are getting longer or that you are taking them more often!

I'd like to discuss with you your reasons for disagreeing with Brierly on equivalent distances! Sounds interesting! Are you saying his estimate is fairly accurate for those whose pace is greater than or leaa than 5km/hr? Just a little tongue-in-cheek.

 

[dougfitz]

Doug - I LOVE that your breaks are getting longer or that you are taking them more often!

I'd like to discuss with you your reasons for disagreeing with Brierly on equivalent distances! Sounds interesting! Are you saying his estimate is fairly accurate for those whose pace is greater than or leaa than 5km/hr? Just a little tongue-in-cheek.

The short answer is that he seems to have done the calculation based on someone walking at about 3 km/hr.

 

[Richard Smith]

so 16 kilometers will take 192 minutes or 3.2 hrs.

As Trecile mentioned above, you have lots of time on camino.
Albergues typically require everyone to be out by 8am and most leave earlier than that, assume 7am.
Allow half hour for breakfast, half hour for second breakfast, and you have 5 hours to 1pm which is a good time to stop, have lunch, find a place to sleep, shower yourself, wash clothes by hand and hang on the line, then go explore the village or town.
Then dinner with other pilgrims and early to bed.
Repeat tomorrow.