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Thank you for this well-thought response, AnamyaI think the key here is that there is a huge difference in "not believeing" and "not appreciating".
If you go to Camboja and visit the amazing Ankhor Wat temple, would you consider that a religious trip? Or maybe going to Japan to visit the temples in Kyoto? Unless you follow one of their religions, the answer is probably No. But it does not impede you from feeling in awe with the beauty of the place, or the efforts people went to get those structures up.
The camino has religious origins, so it is indeed hard to separate the walk from any type religion engagement. And most westerners tend to be more familiar with the traditions followed on the Camino than on East Asia or Africa. So even if you don't believe, it's not completely new.
Personally, I think that you could walk a secular Camino and avoid all the "religious bits". But it would kinda lose what makes the Camino a Camino. It's still a great experience to walk for no religious reasons, but like you, admiring the art, history and comraderie along the way
A simple search on 'secular spiritualism' would give you a good start. I found the Wikipedia entry a useful starting point to a wealth of resources.It would be a great contribution, @dougfitz, if you'd share such resources with us by link, thanks.
Beautiful. Thanks.I am not Christian and planning my second and third Caminos for this autumn. I do have a love of ritual and a healthy respect for those that follow a religious path. I admired chapels, churches and cathedrals along the way and attended a couple of masses, I might have attended more but it honestly didn't occur to me. When I lived in Toronto I would occasionally attend mass at a Maronite church because the mass is in Arabic and the Eucharist is in Latin, I enjoy the way the rites are sung. For Camino I did a bit of reading and research to understand what a pilgrimage or a plenary indulgence is (woohoo! clean slate!) so that I could be respectful in those spaces.
I think many people identify as "spiritual" and find Camino to be a good place to just think about their life and what everything means while having the joy (and torment) of walking every day and meeting new people to discuss everything from favourite foods, to why we are here. Most of the people I met were on the spectrum of slightly to very religious. Everyone was completely accepting of anyone not religious.
I needed to walk Camino. I don't know why. I heard about it more than 20 years ago and it stuck in my
heart and mind, I finally had the opportunity to go and now I need to go back. Camino changes you, it doesn't necessarily make you a better person, but it does change you.
There is already such a thing. An alternative "certificate of welcome" from the pilgrim office specifically for those who say their journey was not religious or spiritual in purpose. Though the pilgrim office do not seem to advertise the fact and by default will issue the standard Compostela.What would help is a "secular Compostela", and I don't mean a certificate of distance.
Not only do they default to the Compostela, they may even give you a Compostela if you ask for the Welcome Certificate. That happened to me on my first visit to the Pilgrim's Office. I admit that I stuck it in the tube, and didn't really examine it, but the following year I once again asked for the Welcome Certificate, and when I got home I noticed that I had two different certificates The first year they gave me a Compostela.There is already such a thing. An alternative "certificate of welcome" from the pilgrim office specifically for those who say their journey was not religious or spiritual in purpose. Though the pilgrim office do not seem to advertise the fact and by default will issue the standard Compostela.
I see, thanks; I think it would be fun to walk and debate with you. Still, "Pagan" in my book is an expression coined by church people to describe someone who believes, but in other things than themselves. Me, I totally distrust "believing", preferring "knowing", even though we know so little.@pepi, this might illustrate where I’m coming from https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-translations-a-soft-thread.51026/post-558447
My wife will be glad to know that she is not the only one this has happened to.Not only do they default to the Compostela, they may even give you a Compostela if you ask for the Welcome Certificate. That happened to me on my first visit to the Pilgrim's Office. I admit that I stuck it in the tube, and didn't really examine it, but the following year I once again asked for the Welcome Certificate, and when I got home I noticed that I had two different certificates The first year they gave me a Compostela.
How does one go about hearing the monks chant there?I never fail to stop at the small chapel in Rabanal with the Gregorian chants of the monks there
It is a nightly (or close to it) service in the small monastery/chapel in Rabanal.How does one go about hearing the monks chant there?
I have to get back to Rabanal. It’s one of my favorite places on that Camino. And I’ll be sure to stop in the chapelIt is a nightly (or close to it) service in the small monastery/chapel in Rabanal.
I have gone several times. Just turn up at the proper time and enjoy.
Fantastic, I will add that to my list of places to stop overnight at.It is a nightly (or close to it) service in the small monastery/chapel in Rabanal.
I have gone several times. Just turn up at the proper time and enjoy.
@pepi, you’ll know I’m the forums resident self declared pagan. No, not the moon-bathing, learned it off the internet, been to Stonehenge at least twice pagan. More “old paganus, the country dweller, living in respect of Mother Earth and Father Sun. The change makers that are fire and water. The life givers that are Earth and Air. Rock and Wind.”
Sorry mate, I might have just sunk your thread. But if not- I’ll make pilgrimage to the bones of one who may have touched the divine. I’ll make pilgrimage to the end of the world. I’ll make pilgrimage to our broken boat and watch the sun set over the sundering seas.
So, for me, I’ve no idea why you walk. My old gran told me “walk, because that is what we do”. Maybe your Caminos are what you do. There is no one in charge. There are no rules. And if your journey offers only that and to yourself then that is Camino
In an amusing coincidence, I noticed the 'solvitur ambulando' in your signature, and this rock is in the garden of Refugio Gaucelmo, directly opposite the monks' church in Rabanal.Fantastic, I will add that to my list of places to stop overnight at.
What you write is often recited among Peregrinos, and I don't doubt that this happens. But I honestly don'tSome of the most beautiful stories I have heard were about those who start the Camino as atheistic and, over the miles and days, find themselves, otherwise, in their beliefs by the time the last mile is complete.
Please be careful. I offer my own experience like everyone else here, without intent to argue points. I do believe that is your wish too. It happens. Others have also advised this. I will not inject any further than this.What you write is often recited among Peregrinos, and I don't doubt that this happens. But I honestly don't believe that a true atheist/agnostic would "change his mind". If he does, he was not a convinced non-believer before.
Such a one does not come to his conviction overnight, but over many years, in my case decades of logical, conclusive reasoning, according to which the divine entity is man-made and exists exclusively in the minds of believers. All the more so, if one, like me, grew up in a Christian environment. I don't want to elaborate here, but once you reach this stage, there is no more room for irrationality.
Not wishing to argue either, as clearly stated in my OP. Nor did I say, that it does not happen, quite on the contrary.Please be careful. I offer my own experience like everyone else here, without intent to argue points. I do believe that is your wish too. It happens. Others have also advised this. I will not inject any further than this.
It isn’t a race. There shouldn’t be any winners.Hard to get ahead of you @Tincatinker.
@pepi, I think there is a risk here of conflating the positions of atheists and agnostics. No doubt what you say about committed atheists might be true. They do not believe in the existence of a supreme being, a god, and might not be converted from that by walking the Camino.What you write is often recited among Peregrinos, and I don't doubt that this happens. But I honestly don't believe that a true atheist/agnostic would "change his mind". If he does, he was not a convinced non-believer before.
Such a one does not come to his conviction overnight, but over many years, in my case decades of logical, conclusive reasoning, according to which the divine entity is man-made and exists exclusively in the minds of believers. All the more so, if one, like me, grew up in a Christian environment. I don't want to elaborate here, but once you reach this stage, there is no more room for irrationality.
I am well aware of course. I conflated in order to avoid the thread going astray on the differences between one and the other, but I admit using either description depending on the debate and the person(s) engaged. (@Tincatinker escapes the dilemma by declaring himself a Pagan@pepi, I think there is a risk here of conflating the positions of atheists and agnostics.
Mspath do you have health problems that preclude you from walking? I am also 83 but have no intention of hanging up my walking shoes.As for myself
"Le cœur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît pas/ the heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing."
Pascal, Les Pensées
Perhaps the first post of my last camino explained best why I walked the Camino Frances ten times; thus although my situation has changed while I was able to walk it served as my apologia.
Unfortunately now at 83 I am only able to walk long distances in my memory.
"If you came this way,Two lines come to mind. One that occurs somewhere in T.S. Elliot: "... to kneel where prayer has been valid." I forget what comes before and after, but that phrase has always struck me, and since the Camino, it's struck me also as an apt description of the walking. It means something that THIS way has been walked as a spiritual journey by so many, through centuries. It's not just a hiking trail with nice amenities.
Second one is from Abraham Joshua Heschel: "Religion is what you do with awe." I think there are a lot of people on the Camino who aren't religious in the sense of caring about St. James or his relics or some indulgence thing (even Catholics), but they feel awe there and feel a need to respond to it.
Thank you!"If you came this way,
Taking any route, starting from anywhere,
At any time or at any season,
It would always be the same: you would have to put off
Sense and notion. You are not here to verify,
Instruct yourself, or inform curiosity
Or carry report. You are here to kneel
Where prayer has been valid."
It's from Little Gidding, my favourite.
Honestly, how many people who are looking for a cheap holiday also want to walk 15 - 30 km a day? If I want a cheap vacation or holiday I'll find a cheap place to stay near a beach.I like btw your use of "secular spirituality" to distinguish a secular pilgrim from someone on a cheap holiday.
I suspect we are not all alike.Honestly, how many people who are looking for a cheap holiday also want to walk 15 - 30 km a day? If I want a cheap vacation or holiday I'll find a cheap place to stay near a beach.
Honestly, how many people who are looking for a cheap holiday also want to walk 15 - 30 km a day? If I want a cheap vacation or holiday I'll find a cheap place to stay near a beach.
I suspect we are not all alike.
Alike is not the same. If we were the same, evolution literally could not have happened (as in 'the egg came first having been laid by an animal that was almost but not quite a chicken'). We are diverse creatures in a diverse world: just look at this thread - I can see the metaphorical thread but each response is unique and each of us is unique. Some of us accept and some of us reject the metaphysical explanations and some of us accept and some of us reject the logical-rational explanations and some of us are sceptical of both, and a growing number of us reluctantly accept a large measure of uncertainty. I don't walk the camino expecting or searching for an epiphany - then again St Paul wasn't looking for one either on his way to Damascus. I'm not sure why I walk the camino at all. An honest answer would be partly that I enjoy it, and I think that is human and if I can make other people feel a little bit better about life in the process then I like to think that is human too.I disagree, we may look and act differently due to upbringing and culture but we are all alike .. we are all the same human, seeking an answer, seeking a certainty ... we are all the same.
Anyway, there is only one life on this planet, just that over billions of years it has evolved into multiple forms - but still just one life xx
@David, sad to say, it isn't obvious to me what point you are making here. Would you mind expanding on this thought to clarify what you mean.(not pilgrims if not Catholics, for obvious reasons)
Apologies, meant no harm. As the post is about secular Camino's and therefore not a pilgrimage then the opposite would be a Catholic on pilgrimage to the remains of st James. That is what the Camino actually is, after all, a Roman Catholic pilgrim route to a Roman Catholic saint, the Compostela being a Roman Catholic indulgence.@David, sad to say, it isn't obvious to me what point you are making here. Would you mind expanding on this thought to clarify what you mean.
This thought introduces a perspective that might be useful exploring. Earlier I outlined a justification that someone walking in search of purely secular insights into their spirituality would meet the requirements of the Archdiocese in Santiago to be considered a pilgrim on The Pilgrimage to Santiago. I know that's long winded, but this goes to the Pilgrim Office's statement thatApologies, meant no harm. As the post is about secular Camino's and therefore not a pilgrimage then the opposite would be a Catholic on pilgrimage to the remains of st James. That is what the Camino actually is, after all, a Roman Catholic pilgrim route to a Roman Catholic saint, the Compostela being a Roman Catholic indulgence.
The statement makes no requirement for the pilgrim be of any faith. So yes, The Pilgrimage to Santiago is governed by relatively simple rules published by the Pilgrim Office, and if there is an indulgence, it is really only relevant to Catholics. But as one of the Apostles, St James is recognised as a saint beyond the Catholic church, and I know of feast day services in Anglican and Church of Norway liturgical calendars.To get the “Compostela” you must:
- Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
"Secular" for me means to exclude religious references, in particular those related to official church doctrines, rules, and dogmas. Hence, I would not care whether the Archdiocese of Santiago or any other religious (self-declared) authority might consider a pilgrimage as genuine or not.Earlier I outlined a justification that someone walking in search of purely secular insights into their spirituality would meet the requirements of the Archdiocese in Santiago to be considered a pilgrim on The Pilgrimage to Santiago.
You, @dougfitz, appear to be focused on whether a secular walker is recognized as a "pilgrim" by some (self-appointed) religious authority; I, on the other hand, am not concerned with this. The use of the term "pilgrim" for a secular walk mainly comes about because there is no other suitable word that can adequately describe a secular Camino (Using your expression). Or with what word would you title the endeavor?) Btw, instead of "pilgrim" I euphemistically use "peregrino", the same meaning, just a different language, but this is what the locals along the way are calling me.My main focus is exploring the idea that there might be people who walk, in search of purely secular insights into their spirituality, and they should be considered pilgrims no more or less than any others we accord this status.
Absolutely not! I would reject this as a somewhat condescending downgrading of what @dougfitz appropriately calls "secular spirituality".Pepi, I think that someone doing a secular long distance walk along a Camino could probably be named as a 'hiker'.
Thank you.Let's not get into discussions about what is or is not a pilgrim, or a hiker. Being a pilgrim is not an official status or description and we need to allow for others to use names and labels we may not use ourselves for the same thing.
the Compostela being a Roman Catholic indulgence.
There's often some confusion about what the Compostela signifies. The Compostela declares that the named person has visited the tomb of the Apostle "with an attitude of devotion or because of a vow or promise" (pilgrim office translation) and the more recent version includes a statement about the minimum distance travelled by foot, horse or bike. No more than that. It does not in itself confer any indulgence on the recipient: the additional conditions for receiving an indulgence are religious and sacramental and as such generally only available to Roman Catholics.and if there is an indulgence, it is really only relevant to Catholics.
Thank you. And, since this could also benefit from some clarification it seems: Catholics don't have to walk 100 km or more to obtain a plenary indulgence. They don't have to walk at all for any significant length of way.There's often some confusion about what the Compostela signifies. The Compostela declares that the named person has visited the tomb of the Apostle "with an attitude of devotion or because of a vow or promise" (pilgrim office translation) and the more recent version includes a statement about the minimum distance travelled by foot, horse or bike. No more than that. It does not in itself confer any indulgence on the recipient
Yes the financial aspects, the weather, and the infrastructure are a huge draw for me! A similar endeavour in the UK would cost a lot more, would not be a a well supported from an infrastructure standpoint, and the weather would be less predictable!Never felt the need to have a specific reason to go on a walk. I simply like long walks. I have walked the caminos because they are mostly well marked with a clear start and end and happen to be in a lovely country that has better waether in general then where I live (UK). In addition, long walks are expensive to do in UK owing to the price of accommodation, food and drink!
That does seem to be the way it has evolved. In my mind I keep returning to some remarkable statistics which you posted some years ago. A summary of records from Roncesvalles in 1987 where around 90% gave their motive for walking as 'religious', 98% described themselves as Catholic and one solitary person out of the 1,400+ was recorded as "sans religion". Both literally and metaphorically something from another millennium!In a nutshell: Today's Camino is not a religious pilgrimage that also allows other spiritual quests. It's a secular infrastructure that allows and encourages a broad range of motivations for all who walk.
Without getting into another endless and unproductive "what is a 'real' pilgrim" discussion, I'll just say the reasons aren't obvious to me, for the reasons I expressed in my post earlier in this thread and I disagree with the sentiment.not pilgrims if not Catholics, for obvious reasons
Never felt the need to have a specific reason to go on a walk. I simply like long walks. I have walked the caminos because they are mostly well marked with a clear start and end and happen to be in a lovely country that has better waether in general then where I live (UK). In addition, long walks are expensive to do in UK owing to the price of accommodation, food and drink!
Yes the financial aspects, the weather, and the infrastructure are a huge draw for me! A similar endeavour in the UK would cost a lot more, would not be a a well supported from an infrastructure standpoint, and the weather would be less predictable!
Ditto. For similar reasons, I, too, use peregrinos in English or Camino walkers or caminantes to circumvent the polysemy of the word pilgrim.You, @dougfitz, appear to be focused on whether a secular walker is recognized as a "pilgrim" by some (self-appointed) religious authority; I, on the other hand, am not concerned with this. The use of the term "pilgrim" for a secular walk mainly comes about because there is no other suitable word that can adequately describe a secular Camino (Using your expression). Or with what word would you title the endeavor?) Btw, instead of "pilgrim" I euphemistically use "peregrino"
Yes very well put! It’s just very doable on every level, especially if you reside in Europe. Great transport, hotels, bars, baggage transfer, not overly difficult for most, no altitude issues, very safe on every level, great medical options, food, wine, and you can walk from 1 day to 50 days and choose to stop at any time, and get a bus to local station or airports I can’t think of many walks that have this flexibility and ease.I agree.
The general discussion about pilgrim / hiker / tourist / peregrino, the suggestion to hike elsewhere if one only wants to go on a long hike, the slogan "it's a pilgrimage and not a hike", the claim that everybody who returns to Camino walking does so because of some mysterious inner call that is different from say the call of the high mountains ("The Mountain Calls" - a famous 1938 movie by a widely known South Tyrolean alpinist) - all this blends out one major aspect: that the Camino de Santiago, ie the Camino Frances, has developed into a unique infrastructure and a unique environment the like of which you will not find anywhere else; and that many factors contribute to its current attractive power for so many people. And that it can also not be created anywhere else, despite all the attempts to remodel existing trails or create new trails in its image.
A huge source of conflict and confusion! Especially if one or more parties fails (or flatly refuses) to recognise that their particular interpretation is not the only conceivable one. Been known to happen round here occasionally....Polysemy is a noun that I learnt only today, btw. It means the coexistence of many possible meanings for a word or phrase.
@pepi, that is true. Perhaps it is a legitimate subset of the broader debate you initiated, or a red herring? I know that I had been thinking about it in another, similar context, in that much more narrow way.You, @dougfitz, appear to be focused on whether a secular walker is recognized as a "pilgrim" by some (self-appointed) religious authority; I, on the other hand, am not concerned with this.
Fret not... reading your posts full of wisdom and information has been enlightening and they are much appreciated. May your memories be a source of joy and peace.As for myself
"Le cœur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît pas/ the heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing."
Pascal, Les Pensées
Perhaps the first post of my last camino explained best why I walked the Camino Frances ten times; thus although my situation has changed while I was able to walk it served as my apologia.
Unfortunately now at 83 I am only able to walk long distances in my memory.
Thanks for your thoughts. With regards to the last sentence, the question arises of who would be the individual(s) to establish such a differentiation, chances are, that it would turn out to be a judgment; the sole person who has the ability to do so and for whom it holds significance is me.But I also think that it is your motivation that will make this a 'secular Camino' and it may be impossible to distinguish between this pilgrim and someone who is a tourigrino or hiker.
I am a secular Camino hiker but I don’t think that anyone even knows or cares.Preface:
Moderators: I absolutely respect the rules of this forum - which I consider essential - and if this post, or reactions to it, go in the wrong direction, I ask you to delete it.
I don't want to discuss religion and faith, I'm just interested to know why other "non-believers" walk a "secular Camino" and if they had any problems; but especially if there are needs and wishes to do so. But let’s keep nastiness and spitefulness out of it, p-l-e-a-s-e.
After six long Camino walks, I still wonder: is there a secular Camino?
I love to hike, and I enjoy the conversations and camaraderie as much as the days of solitude and reflection on the Camino. In doing so, however, I by no means want to be categorized as a mundane hiker. As an agnostic/atheist, it fascinates me to watch the religious rituals, they are part of an occidental culture; for example, I never fail to stop at the small chapel in Rabanal with the Gregorian chants of the monks there; and attend Mass in SdC at the end for me is a respectful reference to those who make the Camino possible. I have a lot of admiration and gratitude for the faithful pilgrims who never - or very rarely - let me feel that I do not belong.
On the other hand, it strikes me, how many of my fellow Pilgrims spontaneouslyadmitstress that they go on pilgrimage "not for religious reasons". Thus I know that I am by no means the only one, possibly I even belong to a large group; if there were one, it would be a very silent one. I hope that respectful reports of experiences and opinions on this subject will be possible in this forum.
Why? If getting a compostela is important you could then declare you walked for Spiritual reasons. You can get a compostela for walking for spiritual reasons? No one asks for your definitions of Spiritual.What would help is a "secular Compostela", and I don't mean a certificate of distance.
What would help is a "secular Compostela", and I don't mean a certificate of distance.
The existence of a welcome certificate was already mentioned in this thread; I was unaware.
This is indeed one of the points that I have been making if you did walk, in the words of the Pilgrim Office, "for ... spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search." I think it is entirely within what seems to be the intent of the Pilgrim Office to welcome pilgrims of all faiths or none to participate in The Pilgrimage to Santiago.Why? If getting a compostela is important you could then declare you walked for Spiritual reasons. You can get a compostela for walking for spiritual reasons? No one asks for your definitions of Spiritual.
One definition of Spiritual is “ relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.”
A very intriguing position, food for thoughts, thank youIn answer to your original question, @pepi - of course a secular camino exists. It's not a dualistic Sacred or Secular, but rather more of a continuum.
The way had sacred roots, and some still walk with that intent. But now others just walk not caring a whit about all that, and perhaps completely ignorant of it. Most of us are somewhere between those extremes.
And we change, camino to camino, day to day- even hour to hour. In any given moment we may abide on a different point on that continuum. You can't pin down something that isn't fixed.
Whatever.
Walking clarifies everything, and these distincions matter less.
(And for the record, I am definitely religious, but of a non-theistic sort. "Peregrina" fits, but in a Catholic/Christian context pilgrim certainly doesn't. But I'm not secular, either. Spiritual and religious, just not in the boxes most people in the Christian 'West' put around those things.)
Totally agree!This is indeed one of the points that I have been making if you did walk, in the words of the Pilgrim Office, "for ... spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search." I think it is entirely within what seems to be the intent of the Pilgrim Office to welcome pilgrims of all faiths or none to participate in The Pilgrimage to Santiago.
Thank you for my new learning. I need to use the word, see it more in context, to grasp it properly. A superficial search brought me to this:Ditto. For similar reasons, I, too, use peregrinos in English or Camino walkers or caminantes to circumvent the polysemy of the word pilgrim.
Polysemy is a noun that I learnt only today, btw. It means the coexistence of many possible meanings for a word or phrase.
I discovered the word polysemy in an article where it is used nearly a dozen times. It is Who Is Interested in Developing the Way of Saint James? The Pilgrimage from Faith to Tourism by Rossella Moscarelli, Lucrezia Lopez and Rubén Camilo Lois González, see link. The abstract starts with these lines:Thank you for my new learning. I need to use the word, see it more in context, to grasp it properly.
I sometimes wonder whether people are not drawing the wrong conclusions from the general statement that the Camino is open for all of any faith and none ...The Roman church is open and welcoming to all of any faith and none who go on Camino, which is why they are happy to issue the Compostela to non-Catholics
...Nor I, although there are many interesting posts.I can't be bothered defending my position!
This is an interesting perspective. It wouldn't work for me - I think I would find it difficult to think of it as a little bit sacred and a little bit secular.In answer to your original question, @pepi - of course a secular camino exists. It's not a dualistic Sacred or Secular, but rather more of a continuum.
Or, and although I usually loathe this kind of comparison between concepts from different areas of knowledge, there is indeed duality: A Camino is both scared and secular at the same time and in the same places*). Similar to the wave-particle duality, a concept in physics, where light is both a wave and a particle. Or being both fully god and fully human - a concept with which at least the Christians among the Camino pilgrimage population would not have a problem at all. Having two complete and distinct natures at once is a basic concept for the Catholic and Protestant faithful.of course a secular camino exists. It's not a dualistic Sacred or Secular, but rather more of a continuum.
I discovered the word polysemy in an article where it is used nearly a dozen times. It is Who Is Interested in Developing the Way of Saint James? The Pilgrimage from Faith to Tourism by Rossella Moscarelli, Lucrezia Lopez and Rubén Camilo Lois González, see link. The abstract starts with these lines:
AbstractThe Way of St. James in Spain is the main European pilgrimage route. Currently, it is a cultural, tourist, monumental, spiritual, and sports route. For this reason, the paper aims to discuss the concept of the “Polysemy of The Way”, by analysing how the new pilgrims’ motivations are creating an inclusive and complex space, which is making a shift from religious space to a multifaceted tourism reality.
Yes I totally agree. I’m not religious at all but to miss the history, heritage and so on does seem sad (whilst acknowledging it’s each to their own). I find it unimaginable, to visit the Middle East, SE Asia, South Asia and so on and not visit temples, mosques, and hear the stories and traditions. Belief systems are so fundamental in many countries (admittedly not so much in the countries that populate this forum), it almost like ignoring the key part of the country’s’ culture!No comment on the idea of a "secular pilgrimage" but I personally experienced sadness when walking with a friend, an avowed atheist, who would not enter any religious building. My sadness had nothing to do with his lack of belief, or his views, but simply because he was deliberately choosing to miss beauty, history, rituals, culture, architecture, music (sometimes), and the pleasure of a shared human experience. He was quite fixed about it, and it made no sense to me.
The comment about Ankor Wat is relevant. Would anyone miss that, simply because it was built as a place of worship?
First mention of that word 'spirituality'. Thank you Doug.An interesting question, @pepi. I think one aspect goes to the question of whether there is a secular spirituality, and what that might mean. There are many interesting resources on the internet that I have found in searching for an answer to that question, from which I conclude that this is a well established philosophical discussion, even if I have only come to it recently.
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