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It depends on the sensibilities of others in the albergue. I opened windows by my bunk only to find them closed later in the night. Those times I felt concerned about conditions, when possible, I moved to the common area and slept by myself on a couch. Somehow, in 850 miles, I managed to avoid getting sick.My question is for those currently on the Camino or perhaps recently on it, and who stayed in albergues with dormitory type sleeping quarters, even if in a room with a few fellow pilgrims.
Is the practice of shutting all the windows at night still being done, or has rational thinking prevailed in light of the current worldwide pandemic of a highly contagious airborne virus?
I would think that is the worst thing one could do now, shutting the room up at night, or daytime for that matter, with no circulation of fresh air.
I know that type of living contributed to the spread of the plague in medieval times.
Yeah, I did the grabbing my stuff and moving outside or common area routine a few times on the Frances pre pandemic.It depends on the sensibilities of others in the albergue. I opened windows by my bunk only to find them closed later in the night. Those times I felt concerned about conditions, when possible, I moved to the common area and slept by myself on a couch. Somehow, in 850 miles, I managed to avoid getting sick.
You would think that, but I've been in albergue dorms on hot nights where there are some that want all the windows closed.I would think with the current heatwave that Spain is experiencing, irregardless of culture or covid, that open windows would be necessary and appreciated by all.
RJM,Well, I have recently purchased the lightest inflatable travel ground sleeping pad I can find at a reasonable price. It stores down to the size of a large soda can, but weighs almost a pound, unfortunately. It does go against my walk the Camino minimalist philosophy, but current times force my hand I suppose. The one thing it will provide is piece of mind knowing I can sack out anywhere in decent comfort.
I've always walked in the spring, so never had to sleep in a stifling hotbox.You would think that, but I've been in albergue dorms on hot nights where there are some that want all the windows closed.
As a Brit - throwing open windows in hot weather is my first instinct too. I am currently on the Camino in Carabelos - be assured that opening windows only lets the heat in - it’s taken two Spanish heatwaves since May 5th when I got here to teach meI would think with the current heatwave that Spain is experiencing, irregardless of culture or covid, that open windows would be necessary and appreciated by all.
How does opening windows let heat in when there's an absence of air conditioning inside? The heat is there regardless. To open the windows allows some measure of air circulation which can bring in cooler temperature.As a Brit - throwing open windows in hot weather is my first instinct too. I am currently on the Camino in Carabelos - be assured that opening windows only lets the heat in - it’s taken two Spanish heatwaves since May 5th when I got here to teach me
this. However for Covid reasons I totally agree max ventilation is best.
Windows closed! I felt, I was suffocating.My question is for those currently on the Camino or perhaps recently on it, and who stayed in albergues with dormitory type sleeping quarters, even if in a room with a few fellow pilgrims.
Is the practice of shutting all the windows at night still being done, or has rational thinking prevailed in light of the current worldwide pandemic of a highly contagious airborne virus?
I would think that is the worst thing one could do now, shutting the room up at night, or daytime for that matter, with no circulation of fresh air.
I know that type of living contributed to the spread of the plague in medieval times.
Me too. A few times I awoke to stifling hot, smelly and stuffy conditions in an albergue dorm. All the windows and doors closed. Insanity. Grabbed all my gear and went outside for the rest of the night.Windows closed! I felt, I was suffocating.
Bummer....I’ve been on Norte/Primitivo. Windows shuttered tight, doors closed, a few coughers. I deeply regret that I continued to stay in albergues after I saw those conditions the first night. Cautionary tale. I’m now stuck for an indeterminate time recovering from Covid and waiting until I’m not contagious. I feel very sad that I likely passed it on as well before I knew. Being sick and holing up in a hotel far from home sucks, and I have no idea when I’ll have the energy to continue.
Where are you now?I’ve been on Norte/Primitivo. Windows shuttered tight, doors closed, a few coughers. I deeply regret that I continued to stay in albergues after I saw those conditions the first night. Cautionary tale. I’m now stuck for an indeterminate time recovering from Covid and waiting until I’m not contagious. I feel very sad that I likely passed it on as well before I knew. Being sick and holing up in a hotel far from home sucks, and I have no idea when I’ll have the energy to continue.
If you have trip insurance (double check) it may cover an extra stay for COVID. Ours does.Bummer....
I switched to private rooms for most of my walk, than sat opposite a guy last night, who was sneezing and coughing, claiming it was hayfever. This am, he said, he had felt really unwell last night.
I hope like he'll, he does not have covid, as I can't fly home to NZ if I am positive and changing flight date will set me back $ 2000 dollars.
Staying in fab place A Lua de Camino with superb pool. Euro 55 for twin room.For those now walking.....what are you finding for prices in private rooms...hotels...pensions, etc.
I have a feeling the prices have shot up this year.
Has anyone on the Camino in Galacia who has had to quarantine due to covid been able to make use of the free lodging that was being offered in order to assure visitors they would be taken care of? I recall reading a thread about it a few months ago.If you have trip insurance (double check) it may cover an extra stay for COVID. Ours does.
….. because shutters and blinds keep the sun out and the heat down.How does opening windows let heat in when there's an absence of air conditioning inside? The heat is there regardless. To open the windows allows some measure of air circulation which can bring in cooler temperature.
If it is 40° C outside and inside there's no air-conditioning, it will become 40° or more inside and could actually reach dangerous levels. Think of a car parked outside in the heat. If one were to sit in the car with no air conditioner running, windows completely closed, or even slightly opened for oxygen, one would fairly quickly become a heat casualty and perhaps even die.
During the day yes but at night you want to get cool air and oxygen in.….. because shutters and blinds keep the sun out and the heat down.
Air circulation is necessary to maintain cool temperatures when it's hot outside. Sure, sunny side of the building having an awning or such to shade the sun from doorways and windows makes sense. It reduces the temperatures at the doorway or window. Same with dark colors absorbing heat and lighter ones reflecting heat. If I were to paint one piece of steel glossy white and another flat black and laid them on the ground in the Sahara desert at noon, within an hour you would literally be unable to grab the flat black one as it would be painfully hot to the touch. The glossy one would be manageable.….. because shutters and blinds keep the sun out and the heat down.
I’m in Oviedo now in a hotel room w a little kitchenette so I can isolate better. I have until the 28 so i do have time to recover but won’t be able to do the full route (It would be very messy to extend the trip) I guess I just have to see what the next few days bring. The Spain tourism website said 5 days of isolation or until symptoms are totally gone plus 5 days of mask/distance. I’ve already been here 4 days but probably need at least 2 more in place maybe more. I have zero energy. If it’s walk through the mountains or skip some (maybe skip all the way to Lugo) but get the last 100k in … thoughts on which you’d pick? I want so bad to do both but it’s clearly not happening.Where are you now?
You still need a PCR ago enter NZ?Bummer....
I switched to private rooms for most of my walk, than sat opposite a guy last night, who was sneezing and coughing, claiming it was hayfever. This am, he said, he had felt really unwell last night.
I hope like he'll, he does not have covid, as I can't fly home to NZ if I am positive and changing flight date will set me back $ 2000 dollars.
Hi JenniferI’m in Oviedo now in a hotel room w a little kitchenette so I can isolate better. I have until the 28 so i do have time to recover but won’t be able to do the full route (It would be very messy to extend the trip) I guess I just have to see what the next few days bring. The Spain tourism website said 5 days of isolation or until symptoms are totally gone plus 5 days of mask/distance. I’ve already been here 4 days but probably need at least 2 more in place maybe more. I have zero energy. If it’s walk through the mountains or skip some (maybe skip all the way to Lugo) but get the last 100k in … thoughts on which you’d pick? I want so bad to do both but it’s clearly not happening.
The heat mass of a building is quite different to that of a car. You can expect the building to warm up more slowly inside than the rate of rise of the external ambient temperature, so it will stay cooler longer if the outside temperature is warmer. A car has almost no heat mass by comparison, and will quickly rise to the ambient temperature level.How does opening windows let heat in when there's an absence of air conditioning inside? The heat is there regardless. To open the windows allows some measure of air circulation which can bring in cooler temperature.
If it is 40° C outside and inside there's no air-conditioning, it will become 40° or more inside and could actually reach dangerous levels. Think of a car parked outside in the heat. If one were to sit in the car with no air conditioner running, windows completely closed, or even slightly opened for oxygen, one would fairly quickly become a heat casualty and perhaps even die.
I have been to the Pacific NW during the summer. I found the weather to be even coldish. The highs for the day was in the 60'sF and lows in the 50'sF. Way cooler than Northern Spain can get the same time of year. Also it was the rare albergue I encountered on the Frances that had fans going in the sleeping quarters during hot weather and I think I have only stayed in one private albergue that actually had air conditioning.I don’t have AC in my hundred year old house in the Pacific NW.
In summer, we open the windows in the early am to let in cool morning air with window fans. Then close them all as soon as it’s warmer outside than inside, and close the blinds.
With things sealed up, interior fans and ceiling fans the house stays cool most of the day. We don’t open up again until the next morning.
And I imagine this works even better with thick stone walls.
In Lugo, 24th June is festival for San Juan, so expect it to be busy around that time, maybe book ahead for accommodation.If it’s walk through the mountains or skip some (maybe skip all the way to Lugo) but get the last 100k in … thoughts on which you’d pick?
No pre-departure test needed for Aotearoa New Zealand as of 20th June so unless some intermediate country needs a test no one will know that you are infected until you get home.Bummer....
I switched to private rooms for most of my walk, than sat opposite a guy last night, who was sneezing and coughing, claiming it was hayfever. This am, he said, he had felt really unwell last night.
I hope like he'll, he does not have covid, as I can't fly home to NZ if I am positive and changing flight date will set me back $ 2000 dollars.
NoYou still need a PCR ago enter NZ?
As of next week no test needed to enter NZ.
Great news!As of next week no test needed to enter NZ.
I think that you mean the BELIEF, not fact.The FACT that the open window causes sickness is REAL to some
Correct ... their belief that it is fact or their truth.I think that you mean the BELIEF, not fact.
Sit in a fully zipped up tent during the day in the middle east for a few hours and then tell me about how much heat mass you experienced.The heat mass of a building is quite different to that of a car. You can expect the building to warm up more slowly inside than the rate of rise of the external ambient temperature, so it will stay cooler longer if the outside temperature is warmer. A car has almost no heat mass by comparison, and will quickly rise to the ambient temperature level.
Keeping windows closed in the absence of cooling (evaporative or air conditioning) will prevent hotter external air circulating during the day on hot days. Only when the external temperature has dropped below the internal temperature will opening windows cool down the inside of the building.
In winter, it is more likely that any open window will result in cooler air coming into the building. Air circulation might then be a concern. Perhaps there are places where the rooms are so small that there is insufficient air circulating, but I don't think that I have ever stayed in any where I felt that was a genuine concern. Then again, COVID 19 has revealed many things about air circulation patterns in buildings and the threats that emerge from designs that don't provide adequate fresh air circulation.
ps tents in the desert are unlikely to have much heat mass either. Cars and tents are not analogous to buildings when it comes to how they heat up and cool down.
I have argued as well to keep windows, or at least one window open. In one albergue everyone wanted the windows open and one pilgrim did not. We told that pilgrim they were overruled and they got angry and left. I presume went to another albergue. I remember thinking, wowI got tired of the constant opening and closing of the window. It almost turned into a fight a couple of times (not me). The FACT that the open window causes sickness is REAL to some, and there is no reasoning with them. I always tried to secure a bed by the window. I carried a piece of tack cord and usually found a way to tie the window open to something. I did wake during the night several times with a pilgrim wrestling with the window in attempt to close it, but most of the time they just fumbled in the dark and gave up.
Perfect! I'm gonna pack some cord!I got tired of the constant opening and closing of the window. It almost turned into a fight a couple of times (not me). The FACT that the open window causes sickness is REAL to some, and there is no reasoning with them. I always tried to secure a bed by the window. I carried a piece of tack cord and usually found a way to tie the window open to something. I did wake during the night several times with a pilgrim wrestling with the window in attempt to close it, but most of the time they just fumbled in the dark and gave up.
Every time I hear accounts of that I just think, that's absolutely whacked. Nuts.My first experience of this perennial disagreement was on my first night, on my first camino, at Orisson. I had somehow acquired a lower bunk, but in a tiny, crowded dorm room, with every bunk bed full. Everyone else in the room was French. After a short sleep, I woke to find the room stifling and all the windows closed. The only way to open one would have been to climb up on someone's bed to reach a window. I gave up and just lay there, wide awake and frustated. Eventually, I went into the toilet adjacent to the room. There was a window in there! I opened it, left the door open, and slept well for the rest of the night.
It's quite a hard route, but it is a beauty.I’m in Oviedo now in a hotel room w a little kitchenette so I can isolate better. I have until the 28 so i do have time to recover but won’t be able to do the full route (It would be very messy to extend the trip) I guess I just have to see what the next few days bring. The Spain tourism website said 5 days of isolation or until symptoms are totally gone plus 5 days of mask/distance. I’ve already been here 4 days but probably need at least 2 more in place maybe more. I have zero energy. If it’s walk through the mountains or skip some (maybe skip all the way to Lugo) but get the last 100k in … thoughts on which you’d pick? I want so bad to do both but it’s clearly not happening.
Exactly my experience too at Orisson. But I wasn't aware of the toilet solution.My first experience of this perennial disagreement was on my first night, on my first camino, at Orisson. I had somehow acquired a lower bunk, but in a tiny, crowded dorm room, with every bunk bed full. Everyone else in the room was French. After a short sleep, I woke to find the room stifling and all the windows closed. The only way to open one would have been to climb up on someone's bed to reach a window. I gave up and just lay there, wide awake and frustated. Eventually, I went into the toilet adjacent to the room. There was a window in there! I opened it, left the door open, and slept well for the rest of the night.
This varies. I was just in an albergue that kept the windows closed so as not to let the heat in. Later someone opened the windows and it was like a sauna.I would think with the current heatwave that Spain is experiencing, irregardless of culture or covid, that open windows would be necessary and appreciated by all.
"let the heat in" "sauna"? I don't see how that scientifically possible?This varies. I was just in an albergue that kept the windows closed so as not to let the heat in. Later someone opened the windows and it was like a sauna.
Wow, that sounds foolish to tempt fate by closing windows and sharing air with others in the midst of a worldwide pandemic.Just completed the Norte to Oviedo and am on the Primitivo. We have usually opened the windows during the day but most if not all get closed at night to keep the room from getting too cold. Some we can leave the windows open a little. The last couple days it was warmer but 1 place advised that opening the windows would let the heat in. Later some pilgrims opened them anyway and it did indeed get too warm. Right now we have 1 window open and the storm is coming so it is getting cold. Window will probably be shut soon. Haven’t come across sick people in the dorms though- at least - not symptomatic. No current reports of anyone getting COVID though I did hear of one positive that already finished the Norte recently.
Thank you! I suspect we share similar perspectives. I started walking today and am feeling great! (Stopped at 20km in Paládin). Pretty confident I can walk to Lugo then bus to Santiago. BTW this is the first place I’ve stayed in Spain with screens on the windows! (I’m in a private room not the dorm, of course, for a few more days per cdc guidance but it looks to be the whole place). Villa Paládino is awesome— great outdoor spaces, pool, hanging wicker chairs over a stream, decent restaurant, ….It's quite a hard route, but it is a beauty.
Why don't you start from Oviedo in mini stages. It is lovely and it is possible to walk 12 km sections. The last 100 km are pretty awful. First lots of road walking, then heaps of crowds and endless bars from Melide. Not my scene...
It happens because the insides of buildings do not heat up and cool down at the same rate as the external environment. There are also many approaches to building design and construction that can ensure that on warm days, the interior stays cooler for longer, and vice versa. Not everyone here lives in their car or a tent!"let the heat in" "sauna"? I don't see how that scientifically possible?
What Camino was that? The Camino tropical rainforest?
Perfect!Thank you! I suspect we share similar perspectives. I started walking today and am feeling great! (Stopped at 20km in Paládin). Pretty confident I can walk to Lugo then bus to Santiago. BTW this is the first place I’ve stayed in Spain with screens on the windows! (I’m in a private room not the dorm, of course, for a few more days per cdc guidance but it looks to be the whole place). Villa Paládino is awesome— great outdoor spaces, pool, hanging wicker chairs over a stream, decent restaurant, ….
Yeah, just don't see it dude. Never experienced that anywhere on the Camino where the opening of windows let in heat into a building already hot and stuffy with the outside temperature and the heat generated by several human bodies. The examples cited in response don't involve buildings where there's a large, barracks style room in which several people are residing together, and sleep only a few feet away from each other.It happens because the insides of buildings do not heat up and cool down at the same rate as the external environment. There are also many approaches to building design and construction that can ensure that on warm days, the interior stays cooler for longer, and vice versa. Not everyone here lives in their car or a tent!
I think you have stopped listening to reason here, and I am happy to let you keep ranting. Bye.Yeah, just don't see it dude. Never experienced that anywhere on the Camino where the opening of windows let in heat into a building already hot and stuffy with the outside temperature and the heat generated by several human bodies. The examples cited in response don't involve buildings where there's a large, barracks style room in which several people are residing together, and sleep only a few feet away from each other.
If there is a person expelling viruses into the room, an open window is not going to make a big difference. It will improve the odds slightly.My question is for those currently on the Camino or perhaps recently on it, and who stayed in albergues with dormitory type sleeping quarters, even if in a room with a few fellow pilgrims.
Is the practice of shutting all the windows at night still being done, or has rational thinking prevailed in light of the current worldwide pandemic of a highly contagious airborne virus?
I would think that is the worst thing one could do now, shutting the room up at night, or daytime for that matter, with no circulation of fresh air.
I know that type of living contributed to the spread of the plague in medieval times.
Primitivo and yes - the building was cool (stone and brick) until the windows were open and the heat and humidity came in and mixed with bodies felt like a sauna. Don’t have to believe me but that was our experience I. This one albergue a few nights ago. As I said in another post - it is cooling off now and another storm is rolling in."let the heat in" "sauna"? I don't see how that scientifically possible?
What Camino was that? The Camino tropical rainforest?
quite critical eh? I know all about the pandemic. It is been not only my life, but my work for 2+ years. I am hardly following anyone off a clif. And this horse knows when to drink the water. Those of us on the Norte and Primitivo chose these routes in part due to the lower numbers of pilgrims. Therefore we have significantly lowered our risk compared to the Frances. We spend most of the day outdoors and mostly spread out. Dorm situations have varied widely but for the most part we are still socially distanced. Most albergues are airing the rooms out during the day. But at night? Gotta get some sleep and if it is too cold to keep the windows open? They will get closed. That said - those of us who are still concerned about the virus that we know is still circulating have gotten vaccinated and boosted. Those who aren’t have chosen to take that risk. Also on the Norte and Primitivo - I have yet to see a knowingly sick pilgrim in the albergues. Not one person complaining of any signs of illness. Ot even a runny nose or sore throat. We have not heard of anyone on our stages having tested positive for COVID. So we are able to weigh the risks and are choosing to stay in dorms - and yes - windows get closed many nights. If I was concerned? I could easily move to private rooms. As can the majority of other pilgrims walking my stages. So please quit with the insult. (Written as I sit in a dorm room on a cold rainy day with windows closed and no top bunks are being filled and we are all healthy and 6 or more feet apart. BTW - seems the heat wave has ow ended where I am).Wow, that sounds foolish to tempt fate by closing windows and sharing air with others in the midst of a worldwide pandemic.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink. Perhaps the metaphor of lemmings following each other over a cliff's edge may apply, too.
Not all continentals!Experience shows that (*massive generalisation incoming*) Brits like to sleep with windows open whatever the weather and continentals like to sleep with windows closed whatever the weather. Endless fun has been enjoyed in alpine huts over the years by throwing open the windows on arrival and seeing how quickly they get closed again then opening them again.......you get the idea.
Yes….. and even when NOT on the Camino.This thread is helping me remember the emotion involved with opening and closing a window on the Camino.
Well on the Primitivo, I encountered plenty of people obviously sick, coughing etc.Primitivo and yes - the building was cool (stone and brick) until the windows were open and the heat and humidity came in and mixed with bodies felt like a sauna. Don’t have to believe me but that was our experience I. This one albergue a few nights ago. As I said in another post - it is cooling off now and another storm is rolling in.
quite critical eh? I know all about the pandemic. It is been not only my life, but my work for 2+ years. I am hardly following anyone off a clif. And this horse knows when to drink the water. Those of us on the Norte and Primitivo chose these routes in part due to the lower numbers of pilgrims. Therefore we have significantly lowered our risk compared to the Frances. We spend most of the day outdoors and mostly spread out. Dorm situations have varied widely but for the most part we are still socially distanced. Most albergues are airing the rooms out during the day. But at night? Gotta get some sleep and if it is too cold to keep the windows open? They will get closed. That said - those of us who are still concerned about the virus that we know is still circulating have gotten vaccinated and boosted. Those who aren’t have chosen to take that risk. Also on the Norte and Primitivo - I have yet to see a knowingly sick pilgrim in the albergues. Not one person complaining of any signs of illness. Ot even a runny nose or sore throat. We have not heard of anyone on our stages having tested positive for COVID. So we are able to weigh the risks and are choosing to stay in dorms - and yes - windows get closed many nights. If I was concerned? I could easily move to private rooms. As can the majority of other pilgrims walking my stages. So please quit with the insult. (Written as I sit in a dorm room on a cold rainy day with windows closed and no top bunks are being filled and we are all healthy and 6 or more feet apart. BTW - seems the heat wave has ow ended where I am).
The plague was not airborne. It was spread by lice and mites.My question is for those currently on the Camino or perhaps recently on it, and who stayed in albergues with dormitory type sleeping quarters, even if in a room with a few fellow pilgrims.
Is the practice of shutting all the windows at night still being done, or has rational thinking prevailed in light of the current worldwide pandemic of a highly contagious airborne virus?
I would think that is the worst thing one could do now, shutting the room up at night, or daytime for that matter, with no circulation of fresh air.
I know that type of living contributed to the spread of the plague in medieval times.
Would you live in a shuttered up room full of strangers if the plague was about? Didn't think so.The plague was not airborne. It was spread by lice and mites.
Seriously? Indeed, maybe no one will know. But you'd know you were potentially infecting a plane full of people. Are you saying you’d be OK with that? This is why the pandemic will just keep cycling. Apparently it’s all about me, me, me. No concern for others.No pre-departure test needed for Aotearoa New Zealand as of 20th June so unless some intermediate country needs a test no one will know that you are infected until you get home.
It's not so much that no-one will know, but where the risk is being managed.Seriously? Indeed, maybe no one will know. But you'd know you were potentially infecting a plane full of people. Are you saying you’d be OK with that? This is why the pandemic will just keep cycling. Apparently it’s all about me, me, me. No concern for others.
There's no need for outrage. @DoughnutANZ noticed that a member was apparently not up-to-date with travel requirements and procedures, and clarified that point with a statement of fact.Seriously? Indeed, maybe no one will know. But you'd know you were potentially infecting a plane full of people. Are you saying you’d be OK with that? This is why the pandemic will just keep cycling. Apparently it’s all about me, me, me. No concern for others.
In an earlier comment on this thread I stated the three Camino horse's I will always beat mercilessly after death are littering/graffiti, bicyclists on the walking path and shuttered sleeping quarters at albergue.And the last word goes to.... hopefully a moderator to close this thread.; the poor horse has been flogged to death.
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