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COVID Americans allowed in EU this summer

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lt56ny

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I know there was just a post about France but this was just published in the New York Times a few minutes ago:

 
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Marbe2

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If you can not access the article here it is
BRUSSELS — American tourists who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 will be able to visit the European Union over the summer, the head of the bloc’s executive body said in an interview with The New York Times on Sunday, more than a year after shutting down nonessential travel from most countries to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

The fast pace of vaccination in the United States, and advanced talks between authorities there and the European Union over how to make vaccine certificates acceptable as proof of immunity for visitors, will enable the European Commission, the executive branch of the European Union, to recommend a switch in policy that could see trans-Atlantic leisure travel restored.

“The Americans, as far as I can see, use European Medicines Agency-approved vaccines,” Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, said Sunday in an interview with The Times in Brussels. “This will enable free movement and the travel to the European Union.

“Because one thing is clear: All 27 member states will accept, unconditionally, all those who are vaccinated with vaccines that are approved by E.M.A.,” she added. The agency, the bloc’s drugs regulator, has approved all three vaccines being used in the United States, namely the Moderna, Pfizer/BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson shots.
Ms. von der Leyen did not offer a timeline on when exactly tourist travel might open up or details on how it would occur. But her comments are a top-level statement that the current travel restrictions are set to change on the basis of vaccination
She noted that the United States was “on track” and making “huge progress” with its campaign to reach so-called herd immunity, or the vaccination of 70 percent of adults, by mid-June.

She added that resumption of travel would depend “on the epidemiological situation, but the situation is improving in the United States, as it is, hopefully, also improving in the European Union.”

Diplomats from Europe’s tourist destination countries, mostly led by Greece, have argued for weeks that the bloc’s criteria for determining whether a country is a “safe” origin purely based on low cases of Covid-19 are fast becoming irrelevant given the progress of vaccination campaigns in the United States, Britain and some other countries.

Technical discussions have been going on for several weeks between European Union and United States officials on how to practically and technologically make vaccine certificates from each place broadly readable so that citizens can use them to travel without restrictions.

These discussions are continuing, officials in Brussels said, and it is possible that a low-tech solution would be used in the near future to enable people to travel freely on the basis of vaccination. For example, a traveler to Europe could get an E.U. vaccine-certificate equivalent on arrival after showing a bona fide certificate issued by his or her own government.

The hope, officials said, is that this step would soon be unnecessary as government-issued vaccine certificates issued by foreign governments would be acceptable and readable in the European Union, and vice versa.
The European Union itself has begun the process of furnishing its own citizens with “digital green certificates,” which will state whether the traveler has been vaccinated against Covid-19; has recovered from the disease in recent months; or has tested negative for the virus in the past few days. Europeans will be able to use those to travel without added restrictions, at least in principle, within the bloc of 27 nations.

Based on Ms. von der Leyen’s comments, the European Commission will recommend the change in travel policy, though individual member states may reserve the right to keep stricter limits. They might not permit citizens from outside the bloc to visit or might enforce restrictions like quarantines, even on visitors who have vaccination certificates.

But countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Croatia that welcome millions of American tourists each summer, and greatly depend on them for income and jobs, are set to jump at the opportunity to reopen to the American tourism market with the E.U.’s blessing.
Until now, nonessential travel to the European Union has been officially banned with the exception of visitors from a short list of countries with very low caseloads of the virus, including Australia, New Zealand and South Korea.

Some E.U. countries have made small exceptions to permit visitors from outside the bloc. Greece, for example, said last week that it would open its borders to travelers from the United States starting Monday, provided they show proof of vaccination or a negative coronavirus test.

The visitors from the handful of countries that are officially permitted to visit the European Union under existing rules would normally still have to comply with various sets of requirements implemented on a country-by-country basis, including having a negative coronavirus test and following quarantine rules.
The return of vaccinated visitors to Europe’s beaches and tourist sites would bring a desperately needed financial boost for countries in its southern rim, in particular. And for millions of would-be tourists around the world, as well as for airlines and the broader travel industry, it would herald a cautious and limited return to something that feels like normalcy.

For Americans especially, it would also highlight a stark change in Covid-19 fortunes: going from undesirable in Europe a year ago, when the pandemic was raging in the United States, to being in the front of the line of global travelers free to resume leisure trips.

But the return of leisure travel to Europe on a bigger scale will also highlight the deepening inequality between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, both within countries and, particularly, on a global level. With India in the throes of the worst rise in coronavirus infections in the world, and with the past week’s global case total the highest since the pandemic began, that contrast could become even more jarring.
 

C clearly

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2021
Do all of us not have access to mainstream news sources where we can find such information and judge its relevance and accuracy?

There are many recent posts on the forum announcing various published news stories, but there is no real news. Everybody is hoping and planning for removal of restrictions on travel, as soon as possible. All the officials are working on it, but no timeframe has been announced and "resuming leisure travel would depend 'on the epidemiological situation'"

This thread is still valid.
 
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David

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2005
The EU leader, Ursula von der Leyen, in a direct interview with the New York Times from Brussels told them what they then accurately reported. Not rumour, not media guessing, a direct and clear statement from the EU leader.

This is the French President speaking - discussions with the White House re allowing vaccinated Americans into the EU once the EU have their EU vaccine passport, he thinks early May easing of restrictions.
This is not newspapers, not rumour - this is the French President speaking.

 
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Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2017
Planning for 2021
Yep it's all a load of ifs and buts. No dates given, no rules agreed. It looks like an agreement to have an agreement. Typical modern leadership, defer decisions but keep the overall wording of the message in agreement with what people want to hear. In the main people only listen to the bits they want to hear and ignore the underlying message.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Yep it's all a load of ifs and buts. No dates given, no rules agreed. It looks like an agreement to have an agreement. Typical modern leadership, defer decisions but keep the overall wording of the message in agreement with what people want to hear. In the main people only listen to the bits they want to hear and ignore the underlying message.
And the underlying message is this has nothing to do with a pandemic but everything to do with a holiday season.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Yep it's all a load of ifs and buts. No dates given, no rules agreed. It looks like an agreement to have an agreement. Typical modern leadership, defer decisions but keep the overall wording of the message in agreement with what people want to hear. In the main people only listen to the bits they want to hear and ignore the underlying message.

I believe having the EU leader indicate Americans who are vaccinated will be permitted in this summer is welcomed and an important step. Intentions usually come before specifics. The opening date is dependent upon a number of factors not the least of which is a functional health passport system of some kind between US and EU, airlines and training their personnel, training for passport controllers, testing sites that are readily available for the millions of people who will need easy access to a covid test and with test results delivered in timely fashion. So I am not at all put off by the fact that we do not yet have specifics.

I am very optimistic when I see what airlines have done on their portals to accept your vaccination data travel and assist with vaccination locations in Europe.
 
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Turga

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And the underlying message is this has nothing to do with a pandemic but everything to do with a holiday season.

I guess it depends on how one look at it. One could say that it has everything to do with pandemic/public health and everything to do with holiday season/economics. The inevitable trade-off.
 

Mycroft

Active Member
I know there was just a post about France but this was just published in the New York Times a few minutes ago:

Just heard the headline on NPR that Americans can enter EU starting this summer if they've been vaccinated, so hooray! But no word on entering UK--I knew I didn't like the idea of Brexit.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
I guess it depends on how one look at it. One could say that it has everything to do with pandemic/public health and everything to do with holiday season/economics. The inevitable trade-off.
I agree. There is a trade off and inevitable and foreseen.
One of my concerns is that the status of your health for a return journey may not be the same as your inbound and what would happen then.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
I agree. There is a trade off and inevitable and foreseen.
One of my concerns is that the status of your health for a return journey may not be the same as your inbound and what would happen then.
I agree...another factor which the governments must consider,as well as the traveler should reflect upon, before they travel!
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
2021
The speculation is ridiculous. It's everybody's intent to open up as soon as possible, but that isn't news. It's just posturing by various political entities. Until there is a specific date, specific criteria, and specific procedures around vaccine passports it's all just puffs of smoke. The ODDS are that some of the countries will be open by mid to late summer but that's only if the trends continue to be positive. For those quantitative folks, look at the long term trend in the UK. They have a steady downward trend with only minor blips as they open up little by little. Really shows either great luck or very good management of the issue. Just stay calm.
 
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The EU leader, Ursula von der Leyen, in a direct interview with the New York Times from Brussels told them what they then accurately reported. Not rumour, not media guessing, a direct and clear statement from the EU leader.

This is the French President speaking - discussions with the White House re allowing vaccinated Americans into the EU once the EU have their EU vaccine passport, he thinks early May easing of restrictions.
This is not newspapers, not rumour - this is the French President speaking.

Well said.
 

Marbe2

Active member
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@John Sikora ....it is not ridiculous when the leader of The EU states the intention to open-up to a country, after having locked it out for more than a year. Greece allowing vaccinated Americans as of May 15th, ...is not speculation.

We should all understand, of course, that things could go south with new mitigating factors, such as another new variant that the current vaccines would not cover.

Decisions to allow vaccinated Americans to enter EU is based upon quantitative data...not on Speculation. Most of us know it will take time to put the structures in place for this to occur.

Happy the data is trending in the right direction in the UK!
 
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Stephan the Painter

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Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
She added that resumption of travel would depend “on the epidemiological situation, but the situation is improving in the United States, as it is, hopefully, also improving in the European Union.”
I think the intentions are clear. The tourist dependent parts of the EU wants tourists from the US if possible. But they have to have the caution in the statement to let people know that if the pandemic situation became more dangerous that you may have to change travel plans.

It’ll probably work out fine, but Buyer Beware, and make sure you have refundable tickets or travel insurance that covers another shutdown, etc.

As a side note here, some people from the Americas find it offensive that people from the US get to be called Americans. Of course anybody from either of the north or south American continent is also an American. It’s the convention, and it may even be in most dictionary’s that way, but it’s incorrect.

Obviously that article is only referring to people from the US, not people from Ecuador or Brazil, for example.
 
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Camino Chrissy

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I am excited that US citizens may be allowed back over the pond fairly soon. I personally will sit back a while longer and wait until it finally is "in action" before preparing for and assuming any plans for myself...hopefully it will not be a long wait.
 
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peregrina2000

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I am very optimistic when I see what airlines have done on their portals to accept your vaccination data travel and assist with vaccination locations in Europe.
Yes, this is exciting news! As of right now, the CDC requires a negative PCR test within three days of re-entry into the US, whether you have been vaccinated or not.



I think the most helpful airline website I’ve seen is Iberia’s, but if you have seen others, @Marbe2, could you add them?


Iberia has a partnership with a lab, and you are able to set up a test all over Spain.

And there are testing centers in the Madrid, Sevilla, and Málaga airports with a 12 hour turnaround.


This is constantly changing, of course, but it does look like countries and airlines are really gearing up to facilitate travel.
 

CWBuff

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Well... Summer is sort of 'too far' for my plans (although if technically I was aiming to start last week of May - it somewhat could've worked).... I have firmly resolved that I cannot play this emotional game of "maybe yes maybe no)
Much as it saddens me - after 2 years of preparations and hoping and waiting... and Wishin' and thinkin' and prayin' (or something like that ;)) I have officially pushed it for another year

Here is to goodbye of my old countdown
Capture.JPG

and the new one was properly edited in my signature

May we ALL be BLESSED with fully putting this horrible petulance behind us by then (if not earlier of course)!
 

Kathar1na

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As a side note here, some people from the Americas find it offensive that people from the US get to be called Americans. Of course anybody from either of the north or south American continent is also an American. It’s the convention, and it may even be in most dictionary’s that way, but it’s incorrect.
It's nice to point this out but not quite correct. Words can have more than one meaning in one language, and words that seem to look the same in two different languages can have a different primary meaning in each of these two languages, say in English and Spanish. Speakers and readers or listeners are usually able to understand this distinction and to understand the context, whether it is American or americano or européen.

For example, when Emmanuel Macron refers in an interview with CBS, where he speaks English, to plans to remove travel restrictions for European citizens, but as well for American citizens, I and most other people familiar with the context will understand what he means: citizens of the USA and citizens of the EU, and not people from the American continent and the European continent. :cool:

And so we have the full range of appropriate vocabulary in the international press today about von der Leyen's interview: US travelers, Amerikanen, Américains, Amerikaner, americani and estadounidenses. ☺️
 
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Kathar1na

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That the EU is discussing a change of their criteria for their recommendations on travel restrictions to include the vaccination rates in countries had already been known for some time and it had even been posted on the forum. I think the only news in the long NYT article is the fact that there are ongoing talks about the mutual recognition of vaccination proof. I noticed the passage where the writer says: It is possible that a low-tech solution would be used in the near future to enable people to travel freely on the basis of vaccination. So, make sure not to loose your vaccination cards and laminate them or put them in a protective cover, I'd say. ☺️
 
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Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
It's nice to point this out but not quite correct. Words can have more than one meaning in one language, and words that seem to look the same in two different languages can have a different primary meaning in each of these two languages, say in English and Spanish. Speakers and readers or listeners are usually able to understand this distinction and to understand the context, whether it is American or americano or européen.

For example, when Emmanuel Macron refers in an interview with CBS, where he speaks English, to plans to remove travel restrictions for European citizens, but as well for American citizens, I and most other people familiar with the context will understand what he means: citizens of the USA and citizens of the EU, and not people from the American continent and the European continent. :cool:

And so we have the full range of appropriate vocabulary in the international press today about von der Leyen's interview: US travelers, Amerikanen, Américains, Amerikaner, americani and estadounidenses. ☺️
Well, I agree that it’s the convention, So you’re technically correct.

And I said that in my post, that probably one of the meanings found in most dictionaries defines American as being a person from the United States. The New York Times used it in this article, and Ursala van der Leyden also used it in that manner.

But you wouldn’t say Asian or Europeans when specifically referencing the residents of a particular country that’s part of the larger continent.

I just pointed out that a lot of other people from the other countries in the Americas think that’s a wrong meaning. I learned this from personal experience while visiting central America. So I always try to say that I live in the United States, not that I’m an American.

You can also say your North American, which usually references Canadians and Americans, but excludes people from Mexico. Also doesn’t quite feel right to me.

I think the real problem is is that there’s not an easy way to say in one word that someone is from the United States. Usian?
 
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CWBuff

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Nice nurse at the Vaccination Centre on Saturday, "Don't lose your vaccination card". Tinker, "So I can prove I've been vaccinated?". Nurse, "No. Its so if you have a severe reaction we can get the Batch Number." I did wonder why they'd tattooed that "V" on my forehead....
:oops:MG!!!!

They DID SO tattooed that (funny-looking red) V on my forehead! WIN_20210413_13_24_59_Pro.jpg
 

Rick M

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
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So, make sure not to loose your vaccination cards and laminate them or put them in a protective cover, I'd say. ☺️
Not a good idea to laminate a vaccine certificate until some authority says it is. Nothing screams "Hi, I'm a credential that can't be validated" like a laminated credential. Protective cover is great idea though.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
But you wouldn’t say Asian or Europeans when specifically referencing the residents of a particular country that’s part of the larger continent.
Nothing unusual in my experience. For speakers of English in England (☺️), "Europe" and "Europeans" can refer to the EU only, to the whole European continent (where one can then disagree about where it ends - Ural? Bosporus?) and in particular it can mean the Continent minus the UK or minus the British Isles.

It's good that you point out this sensitivity about American / americano. It's good to be aware of it but it's more an issue of meaning in Spanish than meaning in English.

When I refer to the UK in conversations that are not conducted in English, I do not hesitate to speak of Angleterre and England because people will understand exactly what I mean - the UK. ☺️
 
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Camino Chrissy

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This is my plan as well—to choose a time after the initial wave of USA travelers. I happily wait until 2022.
I'm still hoping to go in 2021 at some point...I just don't wanna be the first horse out of the gate.🙂
 

Camino Chrissy

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Well... Summer is sort of 'too far' for my plans (although if technically I was aiming to start last week of May - it somewhat could've worked).... I have firmly resolved that I cannot play this emotional game of "maybe yes maybe no)
Much as it saddens me - after 2 years of preparations and hoping and waiting... and Wishin' and thinkin' and prayin' (or something like that ;)) I have officially pushed it for another year

Here is to goodbye of my old countdown
View attachment 98767

and the new one was properly edited in my signature

May we ALL be BLESSED with fully putting this horrible petulance behind us by then (if not earlier of course)!
@CWBuff, I am so disappointed for you, but totally understand and relate to your decision. I do not want to play an emotional roller coaster either, so I am not preparing ahead of time myself, but hope to go this year.🤞Perhaps I will need to consider a wool hat, wool mittens and galoshes.🙄
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
When the Spanish government says I can walk a Camino, I am going.

This disease is not going away in 2022. We are going to have to live with it.

Less than 10% of the worlds population has been vaccinated. At this rate, it will be years, not months until everyone has been vaccinated. In the meantime, the virus is mutating and will continue to do so.

Let's all get vaccinated a soon as the opportunity presents itself. Once things open, for whatever reasons, be respectful of whatever local rules we encounter on our journeys.

Buen Camino
Joe
 

Katia Taam

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Every year, since 2000. Most times portuguese camino also twice the french camiño. Two time Le Puy .
As a side note here, some people from the Americas find it offensive that people from the US get to be called Americans. Of course anybody from either of the north or south American continent is also an American. It’s the convention, and it may even be in most dictionary’s that way, but it’s incorrect.

Obviously that article is only referring to people from the US, not people from Ecuador or Brazil, for example.
I think what is really amazing is that the discussion is all about the US Americans as the rest of us do not exist.
The truth is it's all about money as they are terrified to have another summer without US money.
As Brazilian I am out of the picture and some of the vaccines we have here are not EU approved, although approved by WHO.
I have had already two shots and I am ok... but... no one even think about letting us in.
Sad and discriminatory.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
As Brazilian I am out of the picture and some of the vaccines we have here are not EU approved...
This thread is about an interview given for a leading newspaper in the United States. It is only normal that it addresses issues of interest to their main readership, and they are in the USA.

As to the recognition of vaccines: While Ursula von der Leyen is labelled an "EU leader" (note: not by the New York Times who obviously know better), all she said is that vaccines approved by the EU's EMA will qualify. She didn't say "only those ...". One of the actual EU leaders held a press conference today where she said that no decisions have been taken yet in relation to this topic, there are ongoing discussions and a will to international cooperation, and it is likely that all WHO approved vaccines will be included in any future EU plans to lift travel restrictions and the use of recognised vaccination proof.
 
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Marbe2

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I think the most helpful airline website I’ve seen is Iberia’s, but if you have seen others, @Marbe2, could you add them?


Iberia has a partnership with a lab, and you are able to set up a test all over Spain.

And there are testing centers in the Madrid, Sevilla, and Málaga airports with a 12 hour turnaround.


This is constantly changing, of course, but it does look like countries and airlines are really gearing up to facilitate travel.

I think American-partnering with Iberia has the most user friendly website. As I understand it, from Iberia’s website,one gets a discount if one is a passenger on Iberia or American airlines, but for a small fee more, anyone appears to be able to use this website to get a covid test as well. @peregrina2000 please correct me if I am wrong.

United has been using CommonPass for one’s global health information
and downloading travelers information for international flights.

To see the process they are using. But if you do not have a flight with them it is harder to explore the process.

See United’s https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/covid-testing.html
for listing of labs.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
ave you all seen any discussion that was not about US citizens ?
I've seen plenty of discussions that are not about US citizens at all.

In Europe as a whole, US tourists are not the prime concern. For Spain and Portugal, it's UK tourists; for Greece, it's tourists from Israel and Europe in general.

For the majority of the EU countries, the tourism sector doesn't have the same importance for their GDP and their employment rate as it has for the Mediterranean countries. Also, their tourism sectors are not as dependent on the summer season as it is for Portugal, Spain and Greece - the tourism season in these other countries lasts the whole year, with a focus in the summer (seaside and mountains) and in the winter (skiing). They all want to open the tourism sector again but it's a sector among many that they want to open for domestic and non-domestic consumers/holiday makers.
 
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Katia Taam

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Every year, since 2000. Most times portuguese camino also twice the french camiño. Two time Le Puy .
I'd love to see this discussions...
As I am soooooo anxious to travel ...
 
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Katia Taam

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Year of past OR future Camino
Every year, since 2000. Most times portuguese camino also twice the french camiño. Two time Le Puy .
Yes, you are right... I am wrong...
 

Katia Taam

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Every year, since 2000. Most times portuguese camino also twice the french camiño. Two time Le Puy .
You are all right, no one is anxious about US dollars... my mistake.
 

Camino Chrissy

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Thanks. So the idea that Spain is especially desperate for US visitors is off base. Even the "rest of America" provides more than double the number of visitors to Spain as the USA does.
I think if we in the USA and Canada are surprised that we represent such a low percentage on the list of tourists who visit Spain, it is because we are interacting on this English speaking forum where we have quite a "presence". We do not really represent normal tourist vacation destinations to Spain; we are a specialized niche of travelers.
 
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I think the discussion, debate, speculation, expressions of hope - whatever you want to class any of it as is all perfectly normal in this perfectly normal world. Politicians get asked questions. Politicians can never answer "no". So the answer is always " we are considering, planning, consulting, intending, hoping (we are not in office by the time the doo-doo hits the fan), moving towards the situation when....... " When your travel agent / airline asks you to produce the actual, official, internationally recognized document that proves your "approved traveller" status - well then you can start packing your mochila
 

alexwalker

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(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
Here you go. I wouldn't get to excited if I thought my money was the reason I'd be let in....
Nice, However, these numbers are for 2020 w/Covid, which certainly was not a normal year. I found a maybe more "normal" statistic, for 2016-2017-2018. You can study it here.

Remember, USA was banned from Europe for most of 2020, so the numbers for USA in 2020 are abnormly low.
 

Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
Well, I for one, am just happy that positive noises are being made about opening up travel.

Of course there are setbacks and problems, but we finally picked up momentum with the vaccination program, that it seems most likely to succeed. And that’s what Ursala van der Leyden expressed.

Fingers crossed, Hallelujah!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Nice, However, these numbers are for 2020 w/Covid, which certainly was not a normal year. I found a maybe more "normal" statistic, for 2016-2017-2018. You can study it here.
Well spotted, @alexwalker ☺️. I thought there was something odd about the list for 2020 because the UK wasn't tops in 2020. But they are in normal years, by far:

Arrivals in Spain by country

RankCountry2018
1
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
United Kingdom
18,502,722
2
23px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png
Germany
11,414,481
3
23px-Flag_of_France.svg.png
France
11,343,649
4
23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png
Italy
4,382,503
5
23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png
Netherlands
3,848,545
6
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States
2,949,710
7
23px-Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg.png
Belgium
2,500,278
8
23px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png
Portugal
2,346,405
9
23px-Flag_of_Ireland.svg.png
Ireland
2,049,272
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2012
Nice, However, these numbers are for 2020 w/Covid, which certainly was not a normal year. I found a maybe more "normal" statistic, for 2016-2017-2018. You can study it here.

Remember, USA was banned from Europe for most of 2020, so the numbers for USA in 2020 are abnormly low.
3.6% in 2018, 2.2% in 2020 the variance is less than the post 9/11 variance and compatible with the standard variance for all visitors -33%. Personally I was astounded by the volumes offered for 2020 until I remembered that lockdowns and travel restrictions didn’t really kick in till March/ April 2020.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
As Brazilian I am out of the picture
Another reason why there is more talk about the possibility of travel restrictions being lifted for travellers from the USA and the UK but not so much talk about lifting restrictions for travellers from Brazil is the fact that, seen from here, Brazil is considered as an area of variant of concern. That is why Spain (not the EU!) prolonged again, a few days ago, their much stricter ban on flights from Brazil to Spain (see Orden PCM/378/2021).

And in the NYT article, vdL is quoted as saying that they will look at the "epidemiological situation" in a country and not only at the vaccination status of travellers from that country. We will no doubt soon learn more details.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
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All this talk about opening up of travel is not as important to me as seeing the decline of Covid cases and deaths.
Yes, it's so easy to get swept up in our hopes and dreams of our Caminos, especially as it has been a full year+ of the nightmare and waiting. Thanks for this reminder that it's not all about "us", but the broader picture.
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Year of past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
Yeah, Ursula is talking sunshine and butterflies.

You may be packed up and vaccinated and ready to roll, but here in Spain more than half of us (me, and most of the volunteer hospitaleros I count on) have not been vaccinated yet. Navarre is locked down, the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days. People are still catching and spreading and dying from Covid-19 in Spain. This is STILL not a great place to come for your holidays, even if a politician in Belgium thinks otherwise.

Once the Camino opens up, the first few thousand through the gates had better leave all expectations at home. The camino will NOT be what you remember, or expect. There are going to be some mighty unhappy pilgrims for a while.

Just thinking about it is overwhelming to me. How are we gonna pull this off?
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Yeah, Ursula is talking sunshine and butterflies.

You may be packed up and vaccinated and ready to roll, but here in Spain more than half of us (me, and most of the volunteer hospitaleros I count on) have not been vaccinated yet. Navarre is locked down, the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days. People are still catching and spreading and dying from Covid-19 in Spain. This is STILL not a great place to come for your holidays, even if a politician in Belgium thinks otherwise.

Once the Camino opens up, the first few thousand through the gates had better leave all expectations at home. The camino will NOT be what you remember, or expect. There are going to be some mighty unhappy pilgrims for a while.

Just thinking about it is overwhelming to me. How are we gonna pull this off?
Straight from the horses mouth. We need to be careful and take heed. Thank you, Rebekah, for getting many of us to think and pause a bit.
 
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Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
All this talk about opening up of travel is not as important to me as seeing the decline of Covid cases and deaths.
Well of course the only reason people are talking about travel is because there is a decline in Covid cases and deaths. It’s directly related. If the deaths and cases weren’t declining, nobody would be talking about travel.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Year of past OR future Camino
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
3.6% in 2018, 2.2% in 2020 the variance is less than the post 9/11 variance and compatible with the standard variance for all visitors -33%. Personally I was astounded by the volumes offered for 2020 until I remembered that lockdowns and travel restrictions didn’t really kick in till March/ April 2020.
I do not quite understand your percentage calculations...

The stats for 2020 showed only 407.000 Americans going to Spain, as your figure showed. A ridicuously low number, only due to the European ban of visiting Americans in 2020.

The number for 2016-2017-20218 were 2-2.6-2.9 millions. so by doing a little math extrapolation, it should have been some 3-4-3.8 million US citizens in 2019-2020 in Spain, if the Corona hadn't decided to completely prohibit people from traveling.

But of course, compared to countries like GB, France, Germany, and the rest of Europe, it is not so much. And certainly, Europe is not desperate for US dollars, as the statistics show: Other regions are much more important for the tourist areas of (not least, Southern) Europe.

Furthermormore, and I suppose more important for the pilgrim community, the statistics from the Pilgrim Office for 2019, the last normal year, show that only 6% of the pilgrims came from the US. Hardly a loss to cause desperation in the Camino economy:

pilgrim.png

EDIT: I suspect that the percentage of US citizens on the camino may be as low as 3-4 percent or even lover, as many Europeans, including me and @Tincatinker , do not even bother to register for another Compostela. We arrive, have tapas & wine, and leave, as repeat offenders. We are therefore more people on the Caminos than the statistics indicate, and thereby giving more pecentage away to those who register.

We Europeans have low-cost traveling to the Camino(s); Spaniards are just a short train/bus ride away, and would like another walk, but not paying for just another Compostela.

But I suspect it is more important for pilgrims traveling halfway around the world, to get that certificate, thereby highening their percentage.
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Well of course the only reason people are talking about travel is because there is a decline in Covid cases and deaths. It’s directly related. If the deaths and cases weren’t declining, nobody would be talking about travel.
I'm not too sure. See @Rebekah Scott's post above.
 

alhartman

2005-2017 Delightful 346 days in Spain and France.
Year of past OR future Camino
2017
The early bird gets the worm; the second mouse gets the cheese.

I have had too many wonderful camino days to let my hopes and expectations rule —and end with disappointment. Patience here.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2012
Alex, I did a rapid calculation of the percentage of American visitors as a proportion of total visitors in 2020. Done in my head but I don’t think I’ve dropped a decimal anywhere. The brutal might think that 6% of pilgrims is better than 2% of tourists but let’s not go there 🙂
 
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Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
I'm not too sure. See @Rebekah Scott's post above.
Of course I saw that post. and I’m not going on any Camino if it’s still risky or I am unwanted.

But I think there’s evidence of a decline. And I think that “politician in Brussels“ was talking about later this summer, probably at least three months away. In three months, if things go as they’re starting to go, I think things will likely be different.

People have to plan these things in advance. So Ursula van Der Leyden talked about opening up the European Union to vaccinated US residents. Her reasoning was that they wouldn’t be any riskier than vaccinated European Union residents. What’s the difference if a vaccinated person flies from Munich or Atlanta? So why keep the restrictions up?

Personally, I’m not going anywhere near a red zone if I’m traveling. And I think people who do would be idiots. And Spain shouldn’t open up if it’s still like that.

But I’m choosing to be optimistic. For me, and all the people who depend on tourism dollars for their livelihood. Also, my earliest Camino plans are in early 2022, anyway.
 
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Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Today, on CNN, for the first time, I heard an epidemiologist, reputable expert, ( sorry, I did not get his name) , state Americans-who have been fully vaccinated, should be able to travel safely to The EU this summer!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Personally, I’m not going anywhere near a red zone if I’m traveling. And I think people who do would be idiots. And Spain shouldn’t open up if it’s still like that.
Ah, that's the catch ... it's obviously up to you to decide whether you want to come when they say that you are no longer barred from coming ... you (in the USA) may find yourselves in the same situation in which the French and the Germans and the Italians are right now: they can already fly to Spain ... but most of them won't, and for good reason. And even when they are already vaccinated.

And as you said, the "talk", whether von der Leyen's or Sanchez' or ours, is about the situation in several weeks or several months into the future. Under the (reasonable) assumption that vaccination campaigns continue as planned. EU countries have reached a rate of about 20% of the population for first jabs now, and the rate of vaccination is very likely to increase more quickly now, in line with increased deliveries of vaccines.

Summer, btw, begins on 21 June and ends on 22 September. That's what's "during this summer" means. 😎
 
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alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Year of past OR future Camino
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
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(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
Today, on CNN, for the first time, I heard an epidemiologist, reputable expert, ( sorry, I did not get his name) , state Americans-who have been fully vaccinated, should be able to travel safely to The EU this summer!
Let us hope so. Personally, as a vaccinated old man (67), is am sitting still in the boat, monitoring the developments, knowing that, as a vaccinated, I have survived this disaster, and will go on for years. But I still wear a mask, for myself as well as others. It is not over until it's over.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Yeah, Ursula is talking sunshine and butterflies.

You may be packed up and vaccinated and ready to roll, but here in Spain more than half of us (me, and most of the volunteer hospitaleros I count on) have not been vaccinated yet. Navarre is locked down, the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days. People are still catching and spreading and dying from Covid-19 in Spain. This is STILL not a great place to come for your holidays, even if a politician in Belgium thinks otherwise.

Once the Camino opens up, the first few thousand through the gates had better leave all expectations at home. The camino will NOT be what you remember, or expect. There are going to be some mighty unhappy pilgrims for a while.

Just thinking about it is overwhelming to me. How are we gonna pull this off?

Rebekah, I think many camino returnees know that caminos in 2021 will be quite different. Many of us who do come will undoubtedly change the way we interact to some extent. We will continue to wear masks indoors, eat more outdoors, look for more private facilities if we can afford it, or camp....leaving albergues with rooms for those who really have financial issues.

If near the beginning of September, four months from now, when I am scheduled to fly, if the situation is not stable, I for one , regardless of what the CDC says and The EU says, will not come to Spain.

Please keep posting about the conditions in your neck of the woods. Stay safe and I pray that you get vaccinated soon!
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
3.6% in 2018, 2.2% in 2020 the variance is less than the post 9/11 variance and compatible with the standard variance for all visitors -33%. Personally I was astounded by the volumes offered for 2020 until I remembered that lockdowns and travel restrictions didn’t really kick in till March/ April 2020.



“The U.S. is “Europe’s main long-haul inbound market, in terms of the number of tourist arrivals and tourist spending,” says the European Commission, which recommended the ban continue. “The United States remains the undisputed top source market outside the EU,” it concludes.

According to the report, visitors from the U.S. made up an astonishing half of total hotel nights in the bloc in 2016. That’s 74 of 137 million. In the same year Europe accounted for:

That-is a tremendous amount of hotel money!
!
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
A reality check, hot off the press. “Brussels” isn’t so much leading as trying to catch up and keep the 27 countries on a common track: https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-european-commission-coronavirus-travel-rules/ - After von der Leyen suggests opening EU to US visitors, officials admit countries are already setting own measures.

This article is a summary of the EU Commission daily news conference, so fairly official. Note the von der Leyen's comments to the NYT are described as “premature” in the article.

A video of the full press briefing on 26 April is here and on YouTube here, from about 0:10:00 until about 00:51. As usual, the exchange between reporters and EU staff is done in either English or French.

Edited to adapt links.
 
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Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
Summer, btw, begins on 21 June and ends on 22 September. That's what's "during this summer" means. 😎
The original article said “over the summer”. There was no specific timeline offered.

“Ms. von der Leyen did not offer a timeline on when exactly tourist travel might open up or details on how it would occur. But her comments are a top-level statement that the current travel restrictions are set to change on the basis of vaccination
She noted that the United States was “on track” and making “huge progress” with its campaign to reach so-called herd immunity, or the vaccination of 70 percent of adults, by mid-June.”



I suggested in three months because that’s when I’m guessing things will really start to look better if the situation in so called western countries continues as it is today. I do in fact know when summer starts and ends, not quite sure why you so often make me wrong?

The same thing with the comments about the use of the word “Americans.” If you read my post closely, you‘d see that I made your point before you even wrote it. I had already said that it’s common usage.

Really, why people do this? Do I do this?
 
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BombayBill

Still Learning
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
Well... Summer is sort of 'too far' for my plans (although if technically I was aiming to start last week of May - it somewhat could've worked).... I have firmly resolved that I cannot play this emotional game of "maybe yes maybe no)
Much as it saddens me - after 2 years of preparations and hoping and waiting... and Wishin' and thinkin' and prayin' (or something like that ;)) I have officially pushed it for another year

Here is to goodbye of my old countdown
View attachment 98767

and the new one was properly edited in my signature

May we ALL be BLESSED with fully putting this horrible petulance behind us by then (if not earlier of course)!
Yes the petulance of grammarians is a bit much. They’ll soon forget when the pestilence is over.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Yeah, Ursula is talking sunshine and butterflies.

You may be packed up and vaccinated and ready to roll, but here in Spain more than half of us (me, and most of the volunteer hospitaleros I count on) have not been vaccinated yet. Navarre is locked down, the city of Najera is at code-red full lockdown for the next ten days. People are still catching and spreading and dying from Covid-19 in Spain. This is STILL not a great place to come for your holidays, even if a politician in Belgium thinks otherwise.

Once the Camino opens up, the first few thousand through the gates had better leave all expectations at home. The camino will NOT be what you remember, or expect. There are going to be some mighty unhappy pilgrims for a while.

Just thinking about it is overwhelming to me. How are we gonna pull this off?
Thank you so much for that.
How are we going to pull this off?....
By realising that travelling to Spain is a privilege and not a right. When a realisation dawns that we are still in a pandemic and we do not travel because we could and more on whether we should.
When our ability to travel is not shaped on when we are vaccinated but when everyone is vaccinated and stop thinking of ourselves but also of others.
When we start listening to the World Health Organisation and not Parochial politicians and their supporters.
Lessons should have been learnt from last year but weren't.
How are we going to pull this off?
When everyone realises this is a job in progress and not job done.
This is a global pandemic and not an epidemic. One countries problem is everyone's problem.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
quite sure why you so often make me wrong?
I’m sorry. It wasn’t my intention at all. I quote part of a post to continue a line of the conversation, as replies in longer threads have a tendency to go in all directions. I’ll try to be more careful to avoid misunderstandings.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
A reality check, hot off the press. “Brussels” isn’t so much leading as trying to catch up and keep the 27 countries on a common track: https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-european-commission-coronavirus-travel-rules/ - After von der Leyen suggests opening EU to US visitors, officials admit countries are already setting own measures.

This article is a summary of the EU Commission daily news conference, so fairly official. Note the von der Leyen's comments to the NYT are described as “premature” in the article.

A video of the full press briefing on 26 April is here and on YouTube here, from about 0:10:00 until about 00:51. As usual, the exchange between reporters and EU staff is done in either English or French.

Edited to adapt links.

Yes, with Greece having already set May 15th as welcoming day for Americans, and Croatia and Iceland opening, clearly The EU Commission wants to shape the perception and appear in control....which it is not.

What may be different is that, so far, the Commision has not mentioned allowing unvaccinated Americans to enter with a test. If that is so, they may be-trying to limit the danger of Americans spreading Covid by wanting to just allow those who have been vaccinated. Right now, Greece, Croatia, as well as Iceland are allowing any American, who tests negative before entry or proof of a vaccine, to enter. We know that the final decision rests with each European member country and not the commision..

Before anyone gets upset about discriminating against Americans who have not been vaccinated being refused entry in Europe....anyone in the USA who wants a vaccine by this summer will have had the opportunity to get both vaccines.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015;
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Frank Lloyd Wright used the word Usonian, but it hasn't caught on.
I am quite a FLW fan (not of his lifestyle necessarily) and one of his residence designs is located just 15 miles from where I live...just saying.🙂
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Well, I agree that it’s the convention, So you’re technically correct.

And I said that in my post, that probably one of the meanings found in most dictionaries defines American as being a person from the United States. The New York Times used it in this article, and Ursala van der Leyden also used it in that manner.

But you wouldn’t say Asian or Europeans when specifically referencing the residents of a particular country that’s part of the larger continent.

I just pointed out that a lot of other people from the other countries in the Americas think that’s a wrong meaning. I learned this from personal experience while visiting central America. So I always try to say that I live in the United States, not that I’m an American.

You can also say your North American, which usually references Canadians and Americans, but excludes people from Mexico. Also doesn’t quite feel right to me.

I think the real problem is is that there’s not an easy way to say in one word that someone is from the United States. Usian?
I also say that I'm from the US, which is often met with the reply of "oh, you're an American."
I do realize that every resident of the Americas can technically be referred to as an American, but as far as I know the United States of America is the only with the word America in its name.
 

SimLin

I am a miracle in motion! Buen Camino!
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
If you can not access the article here it is
BRUSSELS — American tourists who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 will be able to visit the European Union over the summer, the head of the bloc’s executive body said in an interview with The New York Times on Sunday, more than a year after shutting down nonessential travel from most countries to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

The fast pace of vaccination in the United States, and advanced talks between authorities there and the European Union over how to make vaccine certificates acceptable as proof of immunity for visitors, will enable the European Commission, the executive branch of the European Union, to recommend a switch in policy that could see trans-Atlantic leisure travel restored.

“The Americans, as far as I can see, use European Medicines Agency-approved vaccines,” Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, said Sunday in an interview with The Times in Brussels. “This will enable free movement and the travel to the European Union.

“Because one thing is clear: All 27 member states will accept, unconditionally, all those who are vaccinated with vaccines that are approved by E.M.A.,” she added. The agency, the bloc’s drugs regulator, has approved all three vaccines being used in the United States, namely the Moderna, Pfizer/BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson shots.
Ms. von der Leyen did not offer a timeline on when exactly tourist travel might open up or details on how it would occur. But her comments are a top-level statement that the current travel restrictions are set to change on the basis of vaccination
She noted that the United States was “on track” and making “huge progress” with its campaign to reach so-called herd immunity, or the vaccination of 70 percent of adults, by mid-June.

She added that resumption of travel would depend “on the epidemiological situation, but the situation is improving in the United States, as it is, hopefully, also improving in the European Union.”

Diplomats from Europe’s tourist destination countries, mostly led by Greece, have argued for weeks that the bloc’s criteria for determining whether a country is a “safe” origin purely based on low cases of Covid-19 are fast becoming irrelevant given the progress of vaccination campaigns in the United States, Britain and some other countries.

Technical discussions have been going on for several weeks between European Union and United States officials on how to practically and technologically make vaccine certificates from each place broadly readable so that citizens can use them to travel without restrictions.

These discussions are continuing, officials in Brussels said, and it is possible that a low-tech solution would be used in the near future to enable people to travel freely on the basis of vaccination. For example, a traveler to Europe could get an E.U. vaccine-certificate equivalent on arrival after showing a bona fide certificate issued by his or her own government.

The hope, officials said, is that this step would soon be unnecessary as government-issued vaccine certificates issued by foreign governments would be acceptable and readable in the European Union, and vice versa.
The European Union itself has begun the process of furnishing its own citizens with “digital green certificates,” which will state whether the traveler has been vaccinated against Covid-19; has recovered from the disease in recent months; or has tested negative for the virus in the past few days. Europeans will be able to use those to travel without added restrictions, at least in principle, within the bloc of 27 nations.

Based on Ms. von der Leyen’s comments, the European Commission will recommend the change in travel policy, though individual member states may reserve the right to keep stricter limits. They might not permit citizens from outside the bloc to visit or might enforce restrictions like quarantines, even on visitors who have vaccination certificates.

But countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Croatia that welcome millions of American tourists each summer, and greatly depend on them for income and jobs, are set to jump at the opportunity to reopen to the American tourism market with the E.U.’s blessing.
Until now, nonessential travel to the European Union has been officially banned with the exception of visitors from a short list of countries with very low caseloads of the virus, including Australia, New Zealand and South Korea.

Some E.U. countries have made small exceptions to permit visitors from outside the bloc. Greece, for example, said last week that it would open its borders to travelers from the United States starting Monday, provided they show proof of vaccination or a negative coronavirus test.

The visitors from the handful of countries that are officially permitted to visit the European Union under existing rules would normally still have to comply with various sets of requirements implemented on a country-by-country basis, including having a negative coronavirus test and following quarantine rules.
The return of vaccinated visitors to Europe’s beaches and tourist sites would bring a desperately needed financial boost for countries in its southern rim, in particular. And for millions of would-be tourists around the world, as well as for airlines and the broader travel industry, it would herald a cautious and limited return to something that feels like normalcy.

For Americans especially, it would also highlight a stark change in Covid-19 fortunes: going from undesirable in Europe a year ago, when the pandemic was raging in the United States, to being in the front of the line of global travelers free to resume leisure trips.

But the return of leisure travel to Europe on a bigger scale will also highlight the deepening inequality between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, both within countries and, particularly, on a global level. With India in the throes of the worst rise in coronavirus infections in the world, and with the past week’s global case total the highest since the pandemic began, that contrast could become even more jarring.
Any ideas about Canadians?
 

Stephan the Painter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances(2020)
I also say that I'm from the US, which is often met with the reply of "oh, you're an American."
I do realize that every resident of the Americas can technically be referred to as an American, but as far as I know the United States of America is the only with the word America in its name.
Good point. I didn’t think of this myself. I started doing it because some Central Americans (Guatemalans, in this case) I met asked me to. I don’t always remember. And it’s difficult, and doesn’t really work perfectly.

I really ended up just expressing this because one of the first few words in that New York Times article were Americans, and for a second I wasn’t sure who they were talking about. I was just offering information for contemplation. He/she/they, and all that.

I’m happy to refer to people as they wish.
 
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C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
Any ideas about Canadians?
Yes, we are the same as everyone else - waiting to see how the policies change. At the moment we are either not allowed or it is advised to not travel almost anywhere. Changes will depend on all the same factors - the situation in the receiving country and the situation here in Canada - and we don't know how/when that will change.
 

Old Bamboo

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF, Francigena, KumanoKodo,Benedetto, Iseji, Assisi, Kunisaki, Shikoku 88 (1~24), Kohechi,Dajia Mazu
Finally some encouraging news
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Good point. I didn’t think of this myself. I started doing it because some Central Americans (Guatemalans, in this case) I met asked me to. I don’t always remember. And it’s difficult, and doesn’t really work perfectly.

I really ended up just expressing this because one of the first few words in that New York Times article were Americans, and for a second I wasn’t sure who they were talking about. I was just offering information for contemplation. He/she/they, and all that.

I’m happy to refer to people as they wish.
When I'm in a Spanish speaking company I say "soy estadounidense," and quite often they still refer to me as Americana.
 
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SimLin

I am a miracle in motion! Buen Camino!
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
Yes, we are the same as everyone else - waiting to see how the policies change. At the moment we are either not allowed or it is advised to not travel almost anywhere. Changes will depend on all the same factors - the situation in the receiving country and the situation here in Canada - and we don't know how/when that will change.
Thank you!
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2020? Looks like.... nowhere! 😁
I’ll start with an apology because I haven’t read all the posts above....
As I see it, yes we may be allowed (by our own countries) to travel to another country (if they will have us) but....(imo) it is for holiday makers, who travel to one place for one week or maybe two and stay there!
As pilgrims, walking from one area to another.... it is different.
We don’t know yet if Spain (or Italy for the Via Francigena) will allow travel from one region to another...
 
Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
I’ll start with an apology because I haven’t read all the posts above....
As I see it, yes we may be allowed (by our own countries) to travel to another country (if they will have us) but....(imo) it is for holiday makers, who travel to one place for one week or maybe two and stay there!
As pilgrims, walking from one area to another.... it is different.
We don’t know yet if Spain (or Italy for the Via Francigena) will allow travel from one region to another...

I suspect that there is going to be real concern about the double-variant out of India now too. I think we have 100 cases in Canada. I know it’s in the US...

I read in the NYT today that the Sinovax vaccine out of China that half the vaccinated population in India have received (which is a very small population) is not effective against it, and they do not have access to the MRNA vaccines because of storage concerns. If it is not controlled in N. America by our vaccines, then I think we have another *big* problem to deal with.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
I’ll start with an apology because I haven’t read all the posts above....
As I see it, yes we may be allowed (by our own countries) to travel to another country (if they will have us) but....(imo) it is for holiday makers, who travel to one place for one week or maybe two and stay there!
As pilgrims, walking from one area to another.... it is different.
We don’t know yet if Spain (or Italy for the Via Francigena) will allow travel from one region to another...

Many long haul international travelers to Spain and Europe tend to move around, often visiting more than one country. I expect, if international travel is opened up, there will be substantial movement...
 
Last edited:
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2017
Planning for 2021
Some good news this morning, a large scale study has found that after just one dose of vaccine (AZ or Pfizer) the ability to transmit C19 is reduced by around 1/3rd. Further good vaccine news with more scientific details available on the BBC news website. Also more studied truthful detail on side effects.
 
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Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!


“An announcement from the European Commission recommending that EU member states allow vaccinated visitors from the United States to enter Europe has created shockwaves through the tourism sector of Barcelona. Before the pandemic, the Catalan capital received more American travelers than from any other country, only outstripped by domestic tourists. They also spend the most money on their stays”

The artcle also suggests that vaccinated tourists from most nations will be admitted .😀😀😀
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Meanwhile, the Spanish government prolonged their entry ban today and will not allow Americans to travel to Spain unless they have a compelling reason, and camino pilgrimage is not one of them.

As before, the ban applies to travellers from all countries (other than EU countries and Schengen countries) with the exception of Australia, New Zealand, Ruanda, Singapur, South Korea, Thailand, China, Hong Kong, and Macao. EU nationals and EU residents are exempt.

Unlike Greece, Croatia and Malta, Spain apparently stays in line with the majority of other EU and Schengen countries.

The ban will last until 24:00 hours on 31 May 2021, sin perjuicio de su eventual modificación para responder a un cambio de circunstancias o a nuevas recomendaciones en el ámbito de la Unión Europea.

 

CWBuff

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Meanwhile, the Spanish government prolonged their entry ban today and will not allow Americans to travel to Spain unless they have a compelling reason, and camino pilgrimage is not one of them.

.....The ban will last until 24:00 hours on 31 May 2021, ....
And so it continues.... the 'previous' deadline approaches and the next one immediately springs into life. 😢Don't get me wrong - I am not ranting about Spanish Government here and what they do; I am merely pointing out that one simply cannot be "too optimistic" and think that it will be over reasonably shortly. It will not.
I see, in some way, the repeat of last summer. Those who live in EU probably will be able to make the Pilgrimage, but anyone from US will have to stay put, sad and frustrating as it is and may be for us
 

Marbe2

Active member
Year of past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
And so it continues.... the 'previous' deadline approaches and the next one immediately springs into life. 😢Don't get me wrong - I am not ranting about Spanish Government here and what they do; I am merely pointing out that one simply cannot be "too optimistic" and think that it will be over reasonably shortly. It will not.
I see, in some way, the repeat of last summer. Those who live in EU probably will be able to make the Pilgrimage, but anyone from US will have to stay put, sad and frustrating as it is and may be for us
This decision is not inconsistent with opening the country for the summer!.
 
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tjb1013

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2017)
Portugués (2019)
We’re in a weird quandary in the states, where vaccination rates are slowing as the numbers of unvaccinated contain a large number of vaccine hesitant people.

I’m fully vaccinated, but wear a mask in public spaces indoors and in close proximity to others outdoors. I don’t expect to travel anywhere unnecessary that requires public transportation. As long as there are a large number of unvaccinated people, that seems both the moral and logical (in the sense of trying to get R to < 1) thing to do. I find it a very small inconvenience.

The quandary will come when the large number of unvaccinated are primarily those that refuse to be vaccinated. At that point I may still wear a mask, but I would struggle with being held hostage by what is, in the US at least, likely to be made up of political partisans who refuse the vaccine as a tribal marker and, it increasingly seems, tribal imperative (the groups of people who can’t have the vaccine for legitimate health reasons are likely to be small, and not amount to a large enough group to prevent “herd immunity”).

I had a doctor’s appointment this week. My doctor said he has a patient who got together with his brother, both fully vaccinated, and sat in a garage with the garage door open (well ventilated, in other words). One had COVID - likely the new variant that is believed to be more easily spread - and he gave it to the other.

These guys are likely to be OK because they were vaccinated, but less than half the people in my state are fully vaccinated and therefore remain at risk for serious COVID-19 complications.

Wending back, I was excited to see the NYT article because even though the optimism was conditional and quite obvious to anyone following the issue, it’s just nice to share with others the sense that there’s a brightening light at the end of the tunnel.

What is likely to concern me about travel is the situation in our destination countries. Have vaccines been available to anyone in that country that wanted one? Has that country had enough vaccine supply, distribution, and time to become fully vaccinated? Can we be tested on arrival to ensure we aren’t asymptomatically spreading?

These are the kinds of things I’ll be looking for. In the spirit of the NYT article’s sources, I optimistically booked two months in Europe in September with the goal of doing the Norté. That’s moot now, as I booked a “mistake fare” that was too big a mistake for the airline to swallow and it canceled my flight.

However, I do think optimism is warranted thanks to the medical marvel of the vaccines’ development. We’ll see about the human side - the ability to provide the vaccine to all and the willingness of all to be vaccinated.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
the groups of people who can’t have the vaccine for legitimate health reasons are likely to be small, and not amount to a large enough group to prevent “herd immunity”)
The fact that there are people who cannot receive the vaccine because of legitimate health reasons makes it more imperative that the rest of us get it to help protect them!
 

mikebet

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
SJPdP to Pamplona (2016); Baiona to Santiago (2018); Sarria to Santiago (2018)
Well, I agree that it’s the convention, So you’re technically correct.

And I said that in my post, that probably one of the meanings found in most dictionaries defines American as being a person from the United States. The New York Times used it in this article, and Ursala van der Leyden also used it in that manner.

But you wouldn’t say Asian or Europeans when specifically referencing the residents of a particular country that’s part of the larger continent.

I just pointed out that a lot of other people from the other countries in the Americas think that’s a wrong meaning. I learned this from personal experience while visiting central America. So I always try to say that I live in the United States, not that I’m an American.

You can also say your North American, which usually references Canadians and Americans, but excludes people from Mexico. Also doesn’t quite feel right to me.

I think the real problem is is that there’s not an easy way to say in one word that someone is from the United States. Usian?
The USA is the only country that specifically includes the geographic locus "America" in its formal name. Other countries on the two American continents have not chosen to do so, and thus have to a certain extent abdicated the logic of complaining that the USA has unilaterally appropriated the name America. If and when Chile becomes "The United Chilean Provinces of America" they will, of course, have a valid argument. Fretting over national nomenclature is, in any case, a pretty pedantic pursuit. I lived in Mexico for two years and in Bolivia for another two and never heard any complaints about the usage of "American" to exclusively refer to citizens of the USA, even from the leftist students I ran around with in Zacatecas. The official name of Mexico is "Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos" but on the rare formal occasion they use the term "estadounidense" it refers to US citizens, not themselves. Likewise Mexicans sometimes use "noretamericano" to refer to US citizens (never Canadians in my experience) ignoring the fact that both they themselves and Canadians should be identified that way. So I don't think I'd vest too much energy in trying to find either moral justice or logic in national nomenclature.
 

tjb1013

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2017)
Portugués (2019)
The fact that there are people who cannot receive the vaccine because of legitimate health reasons makes it more imperative that the rest of us get it to help protect them!
Yes, I neglected to mention this but it is a (and ultimately “the”) critical driver to motivate and, in a civilized world, require immunization to reach herd immunity.
 

Elizabeth Cheung

Existential Sherpa
Year of past OR future Camino
Let's just say I've been around ;-)
I think what is really amazing is that the discussion is all about the US Americans as the rest of us do not exist.
The truth is it's all about money as they are terrified to have another summer without US money.
As Brazilian I am out of the picture and some of the vaccines we have here are not EU approved, although approved by WHO.
I have had already two shots and I am ok... but... no one even think about letting us in.
Sad and discriminatory.
Thank you for addressing this. I too notice that more often than not, the discussion around who will be allowed to travel and get on a Camino seem to favour "Americans" over everyone else. As if the rest of the world who is working hard at getting vaccinated (or at least trying) do not exist. I know its not the intent, but it does come across as if the only way tourism will survive is if Americans can be allowed to do it. Just show some compassion and awareness when you post about how your country is getting a privilege many more do not yet have. That to me, is the spirit of the Camino and speaks to all of us hoping to have some normalcy and a long walk to heal sooner than later <3
 
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