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Churches and attire?

Time of past OR future Camino
Camino in March 22nd 2023 to April 27th 2023.
When entering Churches in Spain, would it be disrespectful to enter in pilgrims attire? i.e. shorts, and backpack. Might it also matter depending on whether or not they are holding mass at the given time?

Thanks for any helpful advice on the matter.
 
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I think it would depend on what your Pilgrim Attire entails. But, generally speaking, no, you're fine. If Mass is currently on when you walk in, walk quietly to a vacant pew to participate (I don't know if that's the right word lol I'm not Christian), leave your camera in your pocket during the service, leave your pack to the side before sitting down.
 
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The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I find that one's attitude is more important than one's attire.

I have often - usually - entered Churches, even during Mass, in what I am wearing as a pilgrim on the road. On the Camino, congregations often have a special place in their hearts for pilgrims.
 
When entering Churches in Spain, would it be disrespectful to enter in pilgrims attire? i.e. shorts, and backpack. Might it also matter depending on whether or not they are holding mass at the given time?

Thanks for any helpful advice on the matter.
Pilgrim attire (including shorts) are fine, but tank tops and bare midriffs are inappropriate and men must always remove caps and hats. Backpacks are fine, set to the side. Some churches in Europe still require women to wear skirts, but these are getting fewer. Attendance at Mass is certainly welcome. Holy Communion is only for practicing Catholics. Wandering around and sightseeing while Mass is underway is hugely disrespectful. Photographs during Mass definitely not.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Pilgrim attire (including shorts) are fine, but tank tops and bare midriffs are inappropriate and men must always remove caps and hats. Backpacks are fine, set to the side. Some churches in Europe still require women to wear skirts, but these are getting fewer. Attendance at Mass is certainly welcome. Holy Communion is only for practicing Catholics. Wandering around and sightseeing while Mass is underway is hugely disrespectful. Photographs during Mass definitely not.
I've never encountered a church that requires skirts . . . but often the requirement to cover shoulders and knees (long shorts for men OK). Sarongs are one lightweight way to ensure you can meet these requirements. Churches on the Camino are used to pilgrims - how we look and how we smell :D
 
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I am not sure of that. Every man must visit a sinagogue with something on his head but every man shouid not visit a catholic church with something on his head.
As an Anglican I would never expect an observant Jew or Sikh to remove their headwear when visiting a church. It is very clear that such headwear is an integral part of their own religious traditions and identity and that there is no intent to cause offence by wearing it. I would be very surprised and deeply disappointed to hear that any Catholic church would insist that such religious headwear is removed by visiting men of another faith.
 
Observant Jewish men, just like Sikhs, keep their heads covered all the time, not just when entering their respected places of worship.
 
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I do tours in Frankfurt all the time with observant Jews, including Rabbis. They have no problem entering a Catholic church to see historical details. I am sure that Jews that are walking on the Camino have interest in seeing the cathedral in Burgos, or Astorga, or Leon.

I apologize for bringing this post off its' original intent.
 
I do tours in Frankfurt all the time with observant Jews, including Rabbis. They have no problem entering a Catholic church to see historical details. I am sure that Jews that are walking on the Camino have interest in seeing the cathedral in Burgos, or Astorga, or Leon.

I apologize for bringing this post off its' original intent.
In Spain is different. The jewish here are almost all sephardim. I never saw someone wearing orthodox clothes on the street and very few with kippa.
 
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In Spain is different. The jewish here are almost all sephardim. I never saw someone wearing orthodox clothes on the street and very few with kippa.

Sorry , there are many forms of orthodoxy in Judaism. From indeed the very visible Chassidism. But even a modern orthodox Jew will wear a kippa when going to a place of worship.
 
@SantiagoFromColombia Welcome to the forum.

I think if you are concerned enough to ask the question, you can be confident that you are respectful enough not to have to worry!! 😇

I am a Catholic priest.

The rules about women and men and headgear while in church were formalised in the Code of Canon Law in 1917, which required women to have their heads covered, and men not to, during the liturgy. This was stated in canon 1262. There was no formal rule prior to 1917, though there was long tradition,

The Code of Canon Law was revised in1983 and the new Code replaces the old Code. This canon of the old code is not in the new code and is technically 'abrogated'. So there is now no rule in effect for those who attend the liturgy, male or female.

This change rather followed practice. Many women had stopped wearing headgear (in UK and Ireland, USA, perhaps less so in more Latin southern Europe) once the mass in the vernacular was introduced after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, even though the Council did not speak on the specific question of attire.

In 69 years of attending Mass I can never remember anyone being sanctioned for not wearing headgear or for wearing headgear. I think it would be quite extraordinary, though traditional practice may vary in different cultures.

I think men wearing hats in church doesn't happen often (in my own culture) because men don't wear hats much any more - in my culture. In the days when they did (when I was young) I think men used to take their hats off when going indoors anyway.

The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.

I did once get in trouble in a church on the Camino Portugues on a Sunday morning when I sat in the seat which apparently belonged to one of the 'regular' local ladies. And I had put my sopping wet hat on the seat which belonged to another of the regulars. But I was happy to move, although they remained a bit suspicious. :) But one of them bought me coffee afterwards.

I think for anyone a basic approach of common sense and respect for others is sufficient. I know that in Italy is still to be found occasionally signage aboout very short and revealing dress. Some places will lend you a skirt or top to cover, but I think this happens less now.

Anyone is welcome to stay throughout a service if they so wish. To have a basic orientation that you would not wish to offend will take you a long way. No one is going to get exercised by whether you stand or sit or kneel at the right time. If in doubt, follow the majority. If you are weary and want to sit throughout, no one will be alarmed.

I note that the OP asks specifically about Spain. That is important - apart from the univeral rules, the local culture and practice does need to be respected. But that is not difficult.
 
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Sorry , there are many forms of orthodoxy in Judaism. From indeed the very visible Chassidism. But even a modern orthodox Jew will wear a kippa when going to a place of worship.
Yes I know that Askenazim jewish have different forms of judaism but not Sephardim jewish out of Israel so far. But if we continue with this interesting issue we absolutely derail the OP.
 
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Remove your hat ... sometimes we forget!
I am Jim's wife, and am a Roman Catholic. I attended a parochial school where we were instructed that all females should have a covering for their head while in church. During mid-adulthood, the rules were relaxed to make it so that wearing a hat or other covering was optional for females. Somehow, that evolved into a situation where wearing hats in church is frowned upon for females, no matter what type, and usually the frowning is done by much-younger-than-me ushers and other such church attendants. That's in the United States. Does this hold true in Spain also?
 
I am a catholic Spanish and I would say that what you describe is more or less what has happened in Spain.
So hats off for both sexes must be a worldwide phenomenon for Catholic churches. Thank-you for your response!
-Joanie
 
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@SantiagoFromColombia Welcome to the forum.

I think if you are concerned enough to ask the question, you can be confident that you are respectful enough not to have to worry!! 😇

I am a Catholic priest.

The rules about women and men and headgear while in church were formalised in the Code of Canon Law in 1917, which required women to have their heads covered, and men not to, during the liturgy. This was stated in canon 1262. There was no formal rule prior to 1917, though there was long tradition,

The Code of Canon Law was revised in1983 and the new Code replaces the old Code. This canon of the old code is not in the new code and is technically 'abrogated'. So there is now no rule in effect for those who attend the liturgy, male or female.

This change rather followed practice. Many women had stopped wearing headgear (in UK and Ireland, USA, perhaps less so in more Latin southern Europe) once the mass in the vernacular was introduced after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, even though the Council did not speak on the specific question of attire.

In 69 years of attending Mass I can never remember anyone being sanctioned for not wearing headgear or for wearing headgear. I think it would be quite extraordinary, though traditional practice may vary in different cultures.

I think men wearing hats in church doesn't happen often (in my own culture) because men don't wear hats much any more - in my culture. In the days when they did (when I was young) I think men used to take their hats off when going indoors anyway.

The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.

I did once get in trouble in a church on the Camino Portugues on a Sunday morning when I sat in the seat which apparently belonged to one of the 'regular' local ladies. And I had put my sopping wet hat on the seat which belonged to another of the regulars. But I was happy to move, although they remained a bti suspicious. :) But one of them bought me coffee afterwards.

I think for anyone a basic approach of common sense and respect for others is sufficient. I know that in Italy is still to be found occasionally signage aboout very short and revealing dress. Some places will lend you a skirt or top to cover, but I think this happens less now.

Anyone is welcome to stay throughout a service if they so wish. To have a basic orientation that you would not wish to offend will take you a long way. No one is going to get exercised by whether you stand or sit or kneel at the right time. If in doubt, follow the majority. If you are weary and want to sit throughout, no one will be alarmed.

I note that the OP asks specifically about Spain. That is important - apart from the univeral rules, the local culture and practice does need to be respected. But that is not difficult.
Gracias Padre! for your very thoughful reply, the effort is appreciated.
 
I entered wearing my hiking attire, whether it be pants, shorts, or a dress. I did have a shirt to put on if needed if I was just wearing a tank top that day. But no issues in Spain. Italy is much more conservative in required attire. I also had my backpack and poles - but I stored my poles on my pack before entering.
 
@SantiagoFromColombia Welcome to the forum.

I think if you are concerned enough to ask the question, you can be confident that you are respectful enough not to have to worry!! 😇

I am a Catholic priest.

The rules about women and men and headgear while in church were formalised in the Code of Canon Law in 1917, which required women to have their heads covered, and men not to, during the liturgy. This was stated in canon 1262. There was no formal rule prior to 1917, though there was long tradition,

The Code of Canon Law was revised in1983 and the new Code replaces the old Code. This canon of the old code is not in the new code and is technically 'abrogated'. So there is now no rule in effect for those who attend the liturgy, male or female.

This change rather followed practice. Many women had stopped wearing headgear (in UK and Ireland, USA, perhaps less so in more Latin southern Europe) once the mass in the vernacular was introduced after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, even though the Council did not speak on the specific question of attire.

In 69 years of attending Mass I can never remember anyone being sanctioned for not wearing headgear or for wearing headgear. I think it would be quite extraordinary, though traditional practice may vary in different cultures.

I think men wearing hats in church doesn't happen often (in my own culture) because men don't wear hats much any more - in my culture. In the days when they did (when I was young) I think men used to take their hats off when going indoors anyway.

The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.

I did once get in trouble in a church on the Camino Portugues on a Sunday morning when I sat in the seat which apparently belonged to one of the 'regular' local ladies. And I had put my sopping wet hat on the seat which belonged to another of the regulars. But I was happy to move, although they remained a bti suspicious. :) But one of them bought me coffee afterwards.

I think for anyone a basic approach of common sense and respect for others is sufficient. I know that in Italy is still to be found occasionally signage aboout very short and revealing dress. Some places will lend you a skirt or top to cover, but I think this happens less now.

Anyone is welcome to stay throughout a service if they so wish. To have a basic orientation that you would not wish to offend will take you a long way. No one is going to get exercised by whether you stand or sit or kneel at the right time. If in doubt, follow the majority. If you are weary and want to sit throughout, no one will be alarmed.

I note that the OP asks specifically about Spain. That is important - apart from the univeral rules, the local culture and practice does need to be respected. But that is not difficult.
Thank you, father, for your comprehensive report on this-- much appreciated view on this matter and that varied cultural practices have influenced this issue over the ages. It helps to know that you can't be far off the mark to follow what the locals are doing.
 
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The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.
Indeed. And on the Camino Frances the churches and priests are often proactive in encouraging people outside of the catholic faith. such as myself, to feel welcome and attend the evening mass and participate in the pilgrim blessing.
I think that it is widely accepted that pilgrims have limited options for changing into other clothes. And if the service is earlier in the evening, say 6pm, may not have arrived in time to shower etc. or even join at the start of the service.
Still, we are at least accepted into the general congregation, unlike those in the middle ages who at the Cathedral of Santa Maria in Vitoria-Gasteiz had to, because of their assumed uncleanliness, attend behind a screen on the side of the nave... (according to the tour guide).
On the Frances the formality of the pilgrim blessing varies immensely: priests will sometimes do a poll of the congregation to find out which countries the pilgrims have come from. You may be invited to come to the front for a blessing and perhaps a sprinkling of water. In Ponferrada, those of us with different languages were encouraged to say the Lord's Prayer in their mother tongue. At Carbajal in Leon the sisters have translated the service into many languages and issue copies to the pilgrims before they enter the chapel. At O Cebreiro the priest may pick an unsuspecting pilgrim to read the lesson in their own language (as happend to me in 2018) etc, etc.
Just go with a good heart and you will be welcomed and valued.
 
Observant Jewish men, just like Sikhs, keep their heads covered all the time, not just when entering their respected places of worship.
In fact, the same applies to men (and women, of course, although beside the point in this case) who are in church on military, police, fire brigade or ambulance duties, for example. They are not expected to remove their headgear, a part of their uniform and a symbol of their office, although they often do so.

As to women in general, those from the more traditional elements of the Catholic church will, throughout Europe, wear a mantilla or other headscarf in church, particularly during Mass. But this convention has faded among most congregations and the choice is entirely left to individual women. The general removal of hats by men and boys is a matter of simple respect for which I can see no polite reason to ignore.
 
I once, on a very hot day, had my hat forcibly removed by the elderly (I'll call him a gentleman) behind me while waiting in line at Lourdes. Literally knocked it off and berated me.
 
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I once, on a very hot day, had my hat forcibly removed by the elderly (I'll call him a gentleman) behind me while waiting in line at Lourdes. Literally knocked it off and berated me.
How bizarre! Did you understand his reasoning? Or was he not quite all there?
 
When I attend mass; Longer shorts (no short shorts) and T- shirt (no tank tops) are fine.
Is this rule (and others given above) from the bible?

When entering Churches in Spain, would it be disrespectful to enter in pilgrims attire? i.e. shorts, and backpack
My experiences in Spain and elsewhere when on camino is a pilgrim is welcome in a church wearing what your everyday walking clothes with backpack and poles. And given that I wear what many might see as a skirt (and what others do call the kilt) I have yet to be told cross-dressers are not welcome.

"Come as you are" is a song heard in English speaking churches.

Reading through packing lists, I have yet to read "long trousers (for men), dresses or skirts (for others) to wear in church"

So, @SantiagoFromColombia, welcome to the forum, enjoy all your visits and I hope to read of your experiences in due time.

Kia kaha, kia māia, kia mana'wa'nui (take care, be strong, patient and confident)
 
How bizarre! Did you understand his reasoning? Or was he not quite all there?
I was accused of not showing respect to the Virgin Mary. Apparently because of a shady hat on a hot day. I suppose he might have thought I was a man, I was wearing trousers and a shirt. I left because I would have been rude if I had stayed, and it wasn't the time or place for a loud argument.
 
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Is this rule (and others given above) from the bible?
I haven't seen anyone claim a biblical origin for their advice on this. @timr provided a longer explanation earlier about the history of its place in Catholic canon law, where it seems for some time it was a formal rule of the Catholic Church. As such, it was observed by my parents in my youth.

As for the practice of wearing a scarf or mantilla, I am going to suggest, without anything more than an hunch, that it was easier for a woman to have a scarf readily available in a pocket or a purse than to wear a hat to cover one's head on the off-chance of entering a church. Certainly my own mother would only wear a hat on Sundays to attend church. She didn't wear a hat otherwise, and would have a scarf readily available should she feel inclined to go into a church.
 
I haven't seen anyone claim a biblical origin for their advice on this
That was my point. There was no origin given by @palmah and others before. It was just a personal view expressed (as I read the posts) as binding on all.

My understanding: the first biblical mention of clothing is a single fig leaf each.

Collectively we are adjustable over time on rules to be obeyed, and that is a message I took from @timr. And they will continue to change with, I hope, the common sense of the lay faithful in particular prevailing.

Kia kaha
 
When entering a church of pretty much any denomination I pass my hat to Mrs HtD to wear and she gives me her spectacles.

Clearly one should be respectful not only of the place, but also the customs and conventions of others and adapt accordingly. It’s not appropriate to act like an entitled tourist in any place of worship. There are shorts and ‘short shorts’ and they’re different.
 
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I don't regard what Jewish and Sikh men traditionally wear on their heads as "hats." They are no more "hats" than my Rosary prayer beads form "a necklace." I've worn a kippah inside a Jewish Temple, out of respect and because my girlfriends parents didn't want to advertise that their daughter was dating a goy. My ball cap or my favorite leather beanie - those are hats.

As for dress codes in a Catholic Church, the norm is no exposed upper arms/shoulders, no exposed knees, and no exposed cleavage. I see this Vatican sign being adapted by some Catholic churches in the USA. They remove the "no entry" part, keep the graphic, and politely request to please observe our norms. It's much the same everywhere in Western cultures, even without a sign. But I'd be surprised if any peregrino/peregrina is ever hassled about this in Spain.

Nothing about hats, but @peregrino_tom thoroughly covered that topic.

dress-code.jpg
 
When entering Churches in Spain, would it be disrespectful to enter in pilgrims attire? i.e. shorts, and backpack. Might it also matter depending on whether or not they are holding mass at the given time?

Thanks for any helpful advice on the matter.
Southern European church attire is far more frequently "just normal clothes" than in the Anglosphere, and if you are in Pilgrim Kit, far from disrespectful -- you will most often be respected for wearing it along your pilgrimage.

Yes, if you are on a secondary or tertiary Way you might sometimes encounter some more disagreeable people -- but honestly that's rare.

I would be more careful with my attire on a Francigena or Way of Saint James in the UK, or elsewhere in more Protestant lands, but the basics of things day-to-day in Southern and Mediterranean Europe is that it's often simply too hot to expect more formal clothing even on a Sunday -- and most Catholics are happy to see you in church regardless your clothing, assuming it's not provocative.
 
men must always remove caps and hats
There is an old Mediaeval indult allowing pilgrims to wear the "signs" of their pilgrimage during Mass -- which are staff, scrip (nowadays backpack), and hat. Technically, as I read it, only those Catholics having been to Compostela can benefit from it ; though as a matter of course, it's normally better not to insist on it.

I have, rarely, for some especially important Masses for me personally, done so.

The absolute rule anyway despite any such indult, for men, is -- hats off during the Mass "proper", i.e. during the celebration of the Eucharist. Easier to just "hats off" during the whole Mass ...

And well, if your hat is just Camino functional, and not that presentable ? Keep it off !!
 
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I don't regard what Jewish and Sikh men traditionally wear on their heads as "hats."
How odd. I suggest that the almost no-else would be so fine grained about a distinction that excluded religious or any other ceremonial headwear. But if you did, why did you suggest that your ball cap and beanie where hats? Neither has a brim. One has a peak, the other - normally nothing. Clearly you accept brimless headwear, so why not a turban, kippah or any other form of brimless headwear?
 
How odd. I suggest that the almost no-else would be so fine grained about a distinction that excluded religious or any other ceremonial headwear. But if you did, why did you suggest that your ball cap and beanie where hats? Neither has a brim. One has a peak, the other - normally nothing. Clearly you accept brimless headwear, so why not a turban, kippah or any other form of brimless headwear?

Really? Well... here goes....

I meant "hats" in the most generic, mundane sense - an article of clothing that goes on the head.

Jewish guys I know don't wear their kippah because they need protection from the sun or because they feel like rocking a Jewish look. It is an expression of religious identity and piety. I respect that. So... in my opinion... the kippah is not a mere hat, or a cap, or beanie or some other form of mundane headwear. So as far as conforming to Catholic "take of your hat" tradition out of respect, I consider Jew to to be exempt.

Same goes for the Sikh "turban," or Dastar. Exempt.

I suppose in a mundane way, religious headgear can be considered to be hats, caps, beanies, or an ordinary article of clothing, etc. because they are worn on the head. I suspect but am unsure that might be your perspective.
 
I suppose in a mundane way, religious headgear can be considered to be hats, caps, beanies, or an ordinary article of clothing, etc. because they are worn on the head. I suspect but am unsure that might be your perspective.
No, in a general way, I only consider headwear with a brim to be a hat, anything with a peak to be a cap and then don't bother lumping anything else under some generic label. But I also know that meanings shift, and the word, hat, has acquired the more general sense over my lifetime of being almost any headwear.

On the general topic, I was brought up in a catholic family, and males removed any headwear when they entered a church, females didn't. I continue to wonder when I see discussions like these what happened when I was an infant. Was there some point where my mother would remove any pretty blue bonnet I was wearing, or was I allowed to wear it whenever I was in church. As for Sikhs, Jew or adherents of any other religious persuasion, this question never arose in any of the churches that I attended.
 
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On the general topic, I was brought up in a catholic family, and males removed any headwear when they entered a church, females didn't. I continue to wonder when I see discussions like these what happened when I was an infant. Was there some point where my mother would remove any pretty blue bonnet I was wearing, or was I allowed to wear it whenever I was in church.
The "what happened" discussion is one I would like to have with you over a cup of coffee, but I suspect is out of bounds for this forum (Rule #2).

I've visited Europe from the USA only twice, and both visits had a religious aspect to them. My last visit was to France in 2019 where I was able to observe cultural norms among French Catholics, and posting what I observed in French churches could bump into Rule #3. I didn't take any notice of hat, or cap, wearing trends, but in my humble opinion, the French dress very well compared to Americans.
 
France is a secularist country, but inside the churches, all male people remove their hat.
However, women usually no more wear hats inside churches (except for weddings).
 

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