dandagenais
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Done: SSJDP to Santiago 811km, Nov./Dec. 2013
Plan: LePuy route July 1, 2018
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People do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed
Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.People do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.
Also, if you want to form your opinions based on what you read on the Internet then life will be a disappointment for you.
Excellent comment! Thank you. Makes sense...It is more crowded during certain times of the year and things have certainly changed. There are many more bag transport companies and probably more infrastructure than when you walked in 2013. Lots more people walking walking supported with bag transfers and are not opposed to taking a bus or cab here and there. There are more tour companies and ways of reserving rooms. Private rooms seem to be a premium now, too. Everything is also a bit more expensive. On the other hand, if you chose to walk flexibly and during a less busy season, I think you will be fine. Frankly the end of May or sometime in June is a less busy time than April, early May, or September. Late July and August you will find more Spanish people as it is school holiday and summer holiday time.
We've walked the last two years in June and July segments of the Camino Frances and have never been stressed about finding a room. My husband also walked in September and October of 2021 when beds were restricted and only had a tough time on the National Holiday Oct. 12. We are volunteer hospitaleros so maybe that gives us an advantage as we know how to manage when things do get pretty busy by either slowing down, speeding up, or stopping at the in-between places. You do need to watch holiday and bridge weekends as there will be more people walking and traveling in general during that time. Many people find a lot of competition for beds with a traditional start in St. Jean until at least Pamplona.
You can of course gauge for yourself and make a change to another route if you find the CF too crowded.
Just avoid the Frances. I walked alone on the Camino Madrid/Olvidado in sept.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
No question about this. It is arguable whether this is a good thing (more people out walking, participating in the cultural experience, finding facilities they need) or a bad thing (less of a introspective experience, less of a niche experience for those of us who got to it early, etc.) In a post above, @Brooklinn just provided a very positive view of some of the differences.it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
I just finished up the Camino Portuguese from Lisbon to SdeC, Finisterre and Muxia. I walked one day with another pilgrim in 30 and rarely saw anyone except at night. Choose that path that suits your desires.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
Walked the Camino Frances in August 2013 and every year bar Covid and this year Finisterre.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
My first Camino was 1989. It is certainly a lot easier to choose where to sleep now than it was then! A lot more crowded, too (at least, the Frances is). But I like other pilgrims. That's a plus for me. More pilgrims, over time, brings more infrastructure and support. And visa versa.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
No judgement, I guess that you didn't understand my point.Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
There isn't only one Camino and so there is no way of answering your question. Recently, some of the shorter Caminos have hugely increased in numbers, some lesser known and longer Caminos have had small increases and the Camino Frances from SJPdP has decreased in numbers.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
I walked the Camino Frances from SJPDP in January this year. A totally different experience from a peak season walk. On some days I met no other walkers at all. At times it was like being back in 1990 but much colder and with much better accommodation!If you are drawn to the Frances, perhaps consider November as you did in 2013, or even later/earlier. One of the more recent threads that has stayed with me is this one from Jeremy @ieremv - who walked the Frances in January this year. Some of his posts took me back to my first time on that path in 2011.
Hello yes I walked the Francés in 2018 and compared to this year, It was a ghost town. this year was very packed but it was still my camino. I did it my way.. I could connect or not. I was looking forward to the same experience that I had in 2018 and guess what it never ever happened but I enjoyed this Camino, if not more so, for a totally different reasonI walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
I don't think that one experience has to be just like the one before to be enjoyable. But after trying a number of different experiences over a long period I think that many people including myself do get a feel for what they actively enjoy and what they would rather avoid. And so choose their routes and times accordingly. My first Camino Frances and my most recent one were separated by 33 years. In 1990 about 5,000 people walked the Camino Frances (which was the only marked Camino at the time). I walked the Camino Frances again this January and September in a year when already 212,000+ have walked at least the final 100km of the Frances. Am I really expected to regard those two experiences as equivalent and to have no particular preference between the two? I am a fairly solitary person by nature and I generally seek out quieter routes and seasons for my long distance walking. I have walked long distance pilgrim routes in the UK, France, Switzerland, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Norway and Japan so I don't think I can fairly be accused of being unusually insular in my practice. I would suggest that someone not expressing unequivocal joy at the current situation on the Camino Frances in peak season is not necessarily a symptom of a closed mind!Having done multiple Caminos myself, the less I compare each to the one before, the more I’ve enjoyed myself. Might be worth pondering why an experience has to be just like before (e.g., not too busy, found a bed, weather good, lots of nice people, etc.) to feel satisfied. Comparison really is the thief of joy.
I walked this past August and September, part was the Primitivo, so really not crowded, I was alone most of the time, and walked into Santiago de Compostela completely alone from Monte de Gozo, even though a lot of albergues were full. I think you can walk around the crowds if you want. I try to look at the increase as a good thing if more people experience a change in perspective in their lives.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
Yes but as said above the infrastructure has increased too.Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
Most of my contact this year was with a largish tour group. I enjoyed having someone to talk to, some days I had no conversations at all.I walked the Frances in spring 2016 (end of May, through June) and then in fall, 2018 (I think?). There seemed to be a lot more people in the fall. I preferred the spring for a variety of reasons (green fields, red poppies and other flowers, sun earlier in the morning, storks...) I never had a problem finding a bed; I think you have a huge advantage if you walk alone... it's a lot easier to find one bed than even two most places. Both times I was on the CF I often had the whole path to myself as far back and as far beyond as I could see for hours. When there were big groups of people I either sped up (and passed the cafes where they were stopped) or I stopped and let them pass. Personally, I don't mind lots of small groups of people, but I get really stressed when there are large tour groups dominating the scene. That is something I do lament. Sometimes I booked ahead a day, but mostly I decided as I walked where I'd like to stop. I met lots of very interesting people from all over the world and had very nice chats with elderly local people in small villages who seem very happy to have all these walkers livening up the scene. I still think the Frances is fantastic; moving through all the different cultural, linguistic, architectural, flora/fauna/weather zones on FOOT is just magic. I'm sure it's changed since I walked but the history is still there. The natural environment through forests and along vineyards is still there. What an amazing experience. No wonder so many people want to do it!
I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
Please tell me you are not judging the judgers. ;-)I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.
Oh good, I can't wait to hear about it! When are you planning to go?I had been thinking that 2024 would be my year for the Via de la Plata, but I think that I'm going to walk the Francés again (probably starting on the Aragonés). While on the Primitivo this year I was missing the ease of the Francés, and the many little towns to stop in along the way for a café con leche or a bathroom break. The Francés is the easiest Camino to "wing it" on, since there is such good infrastructure. I felt like I had to do a lot more planning on the Norte, Primitivo and other routes that I've walked.
That's really the basis of the vicious/virtuous circle that has driven the explosion of numbers on the Frances. The first few years of the revival of the Camino Frances in the 1980s and early 1990s saw slow growth partly because the pilgrim infrastructure was sparse and very irregular. What pilgrim services existed were mostly ad hoc voluntary projects and often donativo. Numbers walking could not have justified larger and more costly investment on a commercial basis. The very deliberate effort to promote the 1993 Holy Year and Galicia's building of the first chain of purpose built albergues was a bold and risky initiative which has proved spectacularly successful. People now choose to walk the Frances because it has such a wide range of services. And the large numbers who walk the Frances now make further investment in it to provide new infrastructure a financially viable proposition. The Portugues may soon rival the Frances in that respect. Other routes are unlikely to match their appeal without substantial speculative investment with a very long term view.The Francés is the easiest Camino to "wing it" on, since there is such good infrastructure. I felt like I had to do a lot more planning on the Norte, Primitivo and other routes that I've walked.
One of mine was in 2014, and IMO the more the merrier !!I walked the Frances in 2013.
People have been saying that for decades.It seems so crowded and almost commercial like.
Reading comments. I agree. My second time on the Frances in April this year and compared to 2019 was far busier. IMO, and yes to all who read this, I can have an opinion, I felt it had become a sporting event for some and something to cross of the bucket list. The bed race was very real having to leave places very early in the mornings in the hope of getting a bed. I stopped walking at Burgos simply because I was unable to secure accommodation in places ahead of me and I wasn't about to start the Meseta just hoping that I could find somewhere to sleep. Maybe caused by an influx in Burgos just at that time. I enjoyed my second experience on the Frances in 2023 but no regrets. Life doesn't always pan out as you anticipate. I became a tourist and headed up to the North coast for 3 weeks. Had a fabulous time in Spain, I love the country.Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
I walked el Norte in October and saw less than 20 pilgrims the entire time. When I switched to Camino do Mar from Ribadeo, I only saw 2 pilgrims in Ribadeo then none afterward! Pilgrims were so rarely seen, that I turned goats´ and cows´ heads.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
I walked el Norte in October and saw less than 20 pilgrims the entire time. When I switched to Camino do Mar from Ribadeo, I only saw 2 pilgrims in Ribadeo then none afterward! Pilgrims were so rarely seen, that I turned goats´ and cows´ heads.
I counted about 30 albergues, pensiones, and hotels in Portomarín on Gronze. Plus there are several small towns before and after.Is there enough accommodation for 1000+ in Portomarin?
Words of wisdom and kind encouragementHello Fellow pilgrim,
I walked the Frances in June/July of 2013, September 2021, and June/July 2023 starting in SJPP. The magic has survived the passage of time!
Here are the a few significant changes I experienced:
-the official route changed here and there with more variant options (which was a bit disconcerting because I wanted to walk the same route as 2013, but these sections are now sometimes the alternative route),
-Those whips of trees planted ten years ago actually provide shade along the way now.
-Some places have closed, but others have opened.
-Cleanliness has improved, most Albergues have provided more space between beds, more private room options
-more infrastucture, more graffiti, more elders walking.
-a couple places to get snacks and drinks on the longest section of the Meseta
-The cost of everything significantly jumped between 2022 and 2023.
We walked most mornings in solitude as we left at dawn and overall even throughout the day. Sure, there are bottlenecks now and then but that happened in 2013 as well. Both times Pilgrims pass with a “Buen Camino” and a smile. The way never felt crowded, although we would see familiar faces coming into villages and towns. In 2023 I booked ahead when wanting private rooms but our friend rarely booked ahead and often found better accommodation for cheaper than we did. There seemed to always be empty beds at albergues, particularly off the typical stops. From Sarria we saw large student groups but stayed off the typical stops, let their joyous groups pass, and all was well. We booked one day out from Sarria on. Booking.com does not represent the true amount of accommodations available. You can get better results and prices calling directly. Be aware of Spanish holidays and festivals to avoid issues finding rooms.
In closing, everything changes over time, but much was the same as well…the delight of sunrises, the smiles and kindness of the Spanish people, the rhythm of walking, the treacherous trail after Cruz de Ferro, the calls of greetings from fellow pilgrims, the ease of new friendships, the awe of Cathedrals, the beauty of the meseta, the meditative washing of clothes, the sinking into bed fully exhausted, the unexpected little miracles. Most importantly, it still felt magical!
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
I'm not a great fan of the commercial development of the Camino Frances in recent years. But in fairness I think that very little of the money-making is for the Church's benefit. What profitable enterprises along the Camino in that final stretch are church-run?I certainly got the feeling that this final stretch of the Camino was commercialised - a money- making machine for the Catholic Church.
No Catholic Church and not only no Compostela certificate, but also no history, no point, and no purpose for the pilgrimage on this Way of Saint James.Sad to see that @spwalker seems to think that the camino, and especially the camino in Galicia, has anything to do with the Catholic Church.
What profitable enterprises along the Camino in that final stretch are church-run?
Oops, just re-read my post and realized how appallingly phrased it was. I thing my keyboard thought we were in the usual situation of a Saturday afternoon burble in the Star and that everyone would realize I was referring to the commercialization of Camino and the idea that there was any way in which the Church, let alone the Congregation of the Faith might financially benefit from some poor old secular pilgrim.No Catholic Church and not only no Compostela certificate, but also no history, no point, and no purpose for the pilgrimage on this Way of Saint James.
And given that the Church is the Congregation of the Faithful, and in this case a particular mobile Foot Congregation, I'm unsure what's "sad" about the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James on their pilgrimages.
How so? The Compostela is free, and the distance certificate costs only 3€. Not a princely sum.I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...
Oh...also the Botafumeiro.
The Compostela is issued free of charge. There is a fairly modest charge for the distance certificate if someone really feels they need one. Both of these pieces of paper are of course entirely optional - I haven't asked for either at the end of my more recent Caminos.I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...
What, €2 per Camino ? That's beyond cynical,I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...
... which is financed privately.Oh...also the Botafumeiro.
No, the €2 charge for each credencial finances it.The Compostela is issued free of charge.
I would not call it cynical.I'm thinking mainly of the certificate and Compostela. It's a smoothly (and expertly) run operating for extracting money from people. I'm probably being a bit cynical...
Oh...also the Botafumeiro.
How so? The Compostela is free, and the distance certificate costs only 3€. Not a princely sum.
I stand corrected! Perhaps I should have used the phrase used for our NHS - "free at the point of delivery"!No, the €2 charge for each credencial finances it.
But that's not profit. There is the cost of the paper, ink, the overhead costs of the Pilgrim's Office, etc.300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros
And what do you think the yearly running costs are for the Pilgrims Office ?300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros
300,000 x €3 is nearly one million Euros
I certainly don't think it's a scam - I thoroughly enjoyed doing it. I was just musing on the commercial possibilities.And what do you think the yearly running costs are for the Pilgrims Office ?
Think the Camino is a scam ?
Fine.
Then stay home and avoid it ?
But do you know anything about it that would be interesting in this context and goes beyond the cliché of the “greedy church”? Some of us would be interested to learn something, I am sure. We all can do a multiplication of two factors and make an estimate or guesstimate about some income and see a sum that looks big. What about cost and where the money goes, do you know anything about it? Staff, volunteers and their accommodation, “acogido al peregrino”, the ACC services …. I‘m just curious to hear what you can share in concrete terms.I was just musing on the commercial possibilities.
Thank you for the information. I stand correctedI've just been having a chat with Johnnie Walker who as some of you will know lives in Santiago, was managing the pilgrim office at the time of the introduction of the distance certificate, and who keeps in touch with some of the pilgrim office staff. Johnnie has given me his permission to repeat the gist of his comments here. I have no personal interest in the pilgrim office and its work and in fact I think it unlikely I will ask for a Compostela in future. And I am in no way an apologist for the Catholic church. But I think that it is only fair that the position is realistically stated.
The pilgrim welcome centre is very far from being a money-spinner for the Catholic church. In fact it has relied on a substantial grant from the government Xacobeo (Camino promotion) agency since 1993 to meet its costs. The income from the sale of credencials, distance certificates and so on only covers about half of the annual running costs of the centre. The centre employs up to 20 staff plus security. They need to be paid. There are also costs involved in housing the many volunteers. Plus the costs associated with running the buildings. The idea that the pilgrim office is a profitable enterprise for the Church is very far from the truth.
My most recent Camino Inglés was a pilgrimage with full intent and was at the same time also a real holiday for me. It can be both. It can even be more than that.some people told me that they were doing this simply for a holiday. Of course, there were also people walking more intentionally.
(One thing the camino has taught me (still a work in progress for me!) is to try not to make assumptions about people, so I'm sorry if I am doing exactly that. But also trying to give you a picture of what I experienced.)
OuchPeople do what people do, this doesn't mean that it is required.
Also, if you want to form your opinions based on what you read on the Internet then life will be a disappointment for you.
It can be very upsetting.I'm with you! This forum brings out a lot of judgemental and moralizing comments all the time. it never fails, someone will always make the holier than thou comment.
I totally agree with you and reflect. I walked the Francis 2008, 2010, in 2016 for a honeymoon with my wife who had the Francis on her bucklist for years and then we returned in 2017 with my siblings also to finish together into Santiago. So I have witnessed a great number of changes. To me personally not ones that I enjoy. I have hiked and walked with my siblings each year since 1998. My wife is a Dr. and could not separate herself from work to do the walk. We had read and heard of changes since 2010 that were not exactly attractive or inspiring, like the 110 km. race from Sarria as an example, bus tour groups along the trail picnicking, bike groups running you off the trail and you don't hear them coming at high speeds, crowded albergues and fewer of them open because of Covid. Was the Francis losing its appeal to the historical, spiritual, cultural and social relations that you gain with new friends from around the world, who came here to experience this amazing wonder of the historical world ?? I must say that 2016 with my wife was the most enjoyable and inspirational walk I have had. We met a group of internationals that we usually are walking with and eating with each day and night. They shared with us and played guitars and sang songs and prayed for my wife and I celebrating our honeymoon the entire trip !! But we have witnessed a more commercialized, sometimes crowded, people like the bikers who were dangerous, selfish claiming the camino as their own, tour groups that wondered around their bus lunch only with a camera then to be rewarded with their compestella. The Camino de Santiago has something for each of us, an attraction for different reasons, for people with different capabilites, now even more so people with disabilities. I have been blessed to have experienced the Francis and Spain before all of these changes, now all of the focus is on an economy rather than the very heart of the camino. What is the history, why is the camino here ?? Let us share the stories of the history, of the characters of those we have walked with. The camino is a living breathing gift from God our creator.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
My first comment is that this has been the subject of discussion from even before I joined the forum, over a decade ago. This search - https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...=10&q=crowded&c[older_than]=2011-01-01&o=date - yields over ten pages of results on the word crowded. Not all are going to be complaints, but a quick glance will show that many are. So this is not a new issue. If the Camino is too crowded now, what justified thinking it was then?Is the Camino too crowded now?
I first did the Camino Frances in 1996, and have walked it all or portions of in the years since. While many thing have changed over the years, the camaraderie is still wonderful. Also, routes such as the Norte, the VdlP, or the La Ruta de la Lana are possible alternatives if you want something similar to the atmosphere you enjoyed on your walk in 2013.I walked the Frances in 2013. This week is my 10th anniversary of starting what remains one of the most special event in my life. I was reflecting on this, as I remain informed and attached to Forums like this one,... and as well, I am planning on going back and exploring the Podiensis, before going back on the Frances. I have seen some reports, videos and posts from pilgrims having done the Camino in the past 5 years. I can't believe the number of people on the route now. It seems so crowded and almost commercial like. Not the experience I had, ... and want. I remember walking what I had planned as a daily distance, but sometimes just going with the flow and people I met to choose where to stop to sleep. Never had a problem in finding a bed. Which was non-stress and part of the experience. Now I see people rushing to get somewhere, waiting in line in hope of having a bed. Isn't this like real life at home, rushing, something we do not want on the Camino. I know, there's all the rest that the Camino brings... and I am stretching this a bit, as a reflection. But still there seems to be this increased popularity, crowed routes, tourist walkers, commercial feel, etc... I just think it takes a bit away from the essence and magic of the Camino.
I guess one can choose a less busy season. I went in November and there was still enough pilgrims to enjoys many "friends" and feel the spirit of the Camino, but I guess way less than in summer. Even though I'd love to experience the summer months (I love hot, very hot weather), I don't think now I would do it, just because of this.
Probably the Podiensis would be better and less crowded than the more popular Frances.
This is not a rant, not at all, simply an interesting reflection and personal analysis, done in a constructive way. Feel lucky I had the experience I did in 2013. Also helps me plan the next journey having this in mind.
Curious to see what others think about this. Happy Halloween to all and Bon chemin à ceux et celles qui sont sur le Chemin!
Interesting -- it's quite the opposite for me ; walking a Camino is an increasing necessary for my health, not walking one for too many years leads to self-indulgence.The disjunct between what I want to do and what I may be obliged to do is gaining significance. And I’m realizing that a life of dedicated self indulgence is unlikely to be a particularly long one.
I found the same. Also walked May-June. would let the crowds pass and I would be be all by myself. Some times I walked alone for quite a while and I thought I might have been on a wrong path but wasn't. But also most "tourist destinations" in the world are getting busier every year. From Bali to Philippines, Amsterdam, Italy, Croatia and many other places are seeing way more tourists. It's the nature of the beast. More people in the world every year equates to more people traveling. It was my first time this year and in five years from now if I walk I'll probably say, hey there's more people walking from when I first walked.One anecdote - I walked the CF last May/June, an apparently busy period. And even on the final 100km into Santiago I was able to spend many hours walking all alone, often without another pilgrim in sight, simply by staying in between the more popular stages. The crowds come and go, they aren't a constant thing, as people spread out as they're walking. I would sometimes stop and let pilgrims pass me, and within a few minutes I'd be alone again.
I got the essence of your message, dandagenais! And I'm glad I spotted your comment because I'm preparing for my first Camino. I am, therefore, looking at all the angles, which I can only learn from people who post questions and comments, like you did. Thanks very much.Not sure you got the essence of my message, but that's fine. I am not judging, as I mentioned and will not judge your comment... But it is not just what I read on the Internet, it is a fact that the Camino today is way busier than 10 years ago.
Not so much sections as times. Early in the morning you may find an hour or so when half the world seems to walk past - especially on the Camino Frances after Sarria. But that post-breakfast rush tends to clear fairly soon as people spread themselves more evenly along that day's stage. If you start a little later in the day you may never see the hordes a little way ahead of you.Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!
That depends on when you walk, what part of the Frances you are on, and what strategies you use. I think it is is quite unlikely except perhaps during the last stretch after Sarria during the high season of July/August if you haven't adopted any strategies to ensure you get what you are looking for. For the rest of the route, and the rest of the year, you should be able, once you are out walking at the very least, to find the peace and quiet you are looking for. As for that last bit, that might be problematic, as I've mentioned several times in various posts, my experience was that solitude wasn't difficult to find even in this busiest stretch of the busiest route during the busiest time of the year. I had a lot of solitary time walking and mostly, even when I wasn't alone, there were no more than a couple of pilgrims in sight at a time. In the last 50 km from Melide (where I joined the Frances) I can count on one hand the number of crowds I saw (generally at bars). All I had to do was sleep "off-stage" at Salceda and Lavacolla instead of Arzua and O Pedrouzo.Now, back to the Frances. My question is this - is it at all likely that I would find myself quite unable to get any peace and quiet on a day, I.e. Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!
No, only if you want this.I’m planning to do the last leg of the Frances next year so ended up her as part of my early homework. While I obviously can’t comment on the Camino, may I just add in relation to something somewhat similar, the Everest trek in Nepal. I did that journey several times over about 10 years and, of course, it changed a bit and got busier from year to year. The people didn’t change much though, neither hosts nor trekkers. And that’s what really gives texture To most trips, as nice walking can be had almost anywhere.
Now, back to the Frances. My question is this - is it at all likely that I would find myself quite unable to get any peace and quiet on a day, I.e. Are there “crocodile” sections where you’re part of a long line. I’d hate that!
I haven't seen any figures from SJPDP about the individual days of the week but my impression is that broadly you are right - weekends are the busiest time for those starting to walk. At the other end of the Frances Friday tends to be the busiest day for arrivals in Santiago (those figures are more readily available).My train of thought here is that we (l’ll actually be doing this with my wife and another couple) would likely find it a bit less crowded all the way if we started on a Tuesday or Wednesday, for instance, as the weekend starters will always be two or three days ahead.
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