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Where did you read that? I’m struck that there are, seemingly, some very strange assertions about the various Camino routes that bear little resemblance to the realities but are becoming internet facts.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
I don't remember any sketchiness. But definitely take the route through Vlllar de Mazarife.
I have done both routes and don't recall any sketchiness, but do remember the Villadangos route as being soulless tedium.Because you did, It was all fine.
I have walked out of Leon half a dozen times and thought it was fine. There a a few cafe/ bakery’s on the track and even a couple of “hobbit houses” where they store wine and veg. When you get to “ virgin of the Camino” so you can arrive at “Marashrife”I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
“ be sure to go left toward
Thank you,
Maryanne
From previous posts on this subject, there was a suggestion that it was cheap and easier to take a local bus from Leon to La Basilica de La Virgen del Camino.Seven km from Leon on the CF is
La Basilica de La Virgen del Camino
Designed in the 1960s by a Dominican monk, Francisco Coello, a follower of the Brutalist style of Le Corbusier, this is basically a glass box; giant metal sculptures of the Apostles adorn the west façade.
The town is named for a famous 15th c. figure of the Virgin holding the dead body of Christ. Today the figure is within the contemporary church
Opposite the church you can either continue on the CF or follow the peaceful alternative camino route towards Villar de Mazarife thus escaping the N120 highway noise/ suburban sprawl while crossing flat plains.
I walked from Leon last week ....just turn left from bus station and walk along the river....until you come to an old bridge ...about one km along .that's the Camino....straight up the road from the bridge....just stay on that busy road until signs show Camino pathI have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
I've walked out of Leon. Waymarking was fine. Nothing sketchy. You will walk through an industrial area which, while not beautiful, was exceptionally clean. I do recommend, like others on this post, that you go by way of Mazarife.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
You can - some do. As other have said, Leon is surrounded by a light industrial belt. In this 7-10 km belt are light industry, big box stores, warehouses, etc.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Since I had walked into Leon through the large commercial area, I felt no need to repeat the long urban walk as I left. As someone said, there is a bus from the main commercial square to La Virgin del Camino. It shaved 7 km off my walk that day which ended up being a very reasonable 25 km walk through the countryside to a lovely casa rural in Villavante. It's the only part of the Frances that I skipped and feel no regret.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Not my experience. @LTfit says it better than I could:have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area.
You can cherry-pick the camino, people do all the time. Whether that's 'ok' depends on your motivation - but regardless, you'll be missing out on the totality of the experience.Personally I never understand why people complain about the route out of León. It's not beautiful but then again there are plenty of other stages that aren't either. Does that mean that I would skip them? No way! It's all part of walking the Camino. And I never found it poorly marked.
I've taken the alternative route at Virgen del Camino at least three times and would highly recommend it. Once during a winter Camino I thought I would walk León to Hospital de Orbigo along the "official" route along the highway. OMG, now that's something I wouldn't do again. I find it curious that people choose to walk along the highway when there is an alternative, also when leaving Hospital de Orbigo. The route through Santibañez and into the woods to Astorga is delightful.
Exactly.If you're walking the camino, why not just walk it ?
You'll probably get a lot of different opinions. I've done the Frances twice - the first time I walked out of Leon, the second time I took a taxi to La Virgen del Camino. It is not the most attractive and interesting walk, but I never felt it was "sketchy"....mostly industrial, car repair shops, etc., but it is a small part of the day. I only took the taxi on trip #2 because I had walked it before. It's a personal decision - if your goal is to walk every step of the path, then walk it....it's not that bad. If you don't mind missing a small part, maybe the weather's crappy, or you don't feel comfortable, then take the taxi.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Could not agree more. Take cab to la BasilicaSeven km from Leon on the CF is
La Basilica de La Virgen del Camino
Designed in the 1960s by a Dominican monk, Francisco Coello, a follower of the Brutalist style of Le Corbusier, this is basically a glass box; giant metal sculptures of the Apostles adorn the west façade.
The town is named for a famous 15th c. figure of the Virgin holding the dead body of Christ. Today the figure is within the contemporary church
Opposite the church you can either continue on the CF or follow the peaceful alternative camino route towards Villar de Mazarife thus escaping the N120 highway noise/ suburban sprawl while crossing flat plains.
I walked the 30 km (mainly along Highway N-120) between the Leon Cathedral and Hospital de Obrigo in September 2021 during my Camino Frances. And it was definitely my least favorite/most "skipable" day. The first 10km felt like "new", undistinguished, big-city suburbs (but it did not feel dangerous or unsafe). The next 15km, on the path about 5-10 meters from N120, was flat and safely away from the highway, but it was "meh" for sights&scenery and there was a constant stream of traffic (I was sufficiently bored to count a few times, and it was about 10 cars a minute, hour-after-hour. The Camino Real route leaving La Virgen del Camino is probably better, but I didn't go that way. Anyway, it wasn't that much of a low point, and really liked staying at Hospital de Obrigo, and loved Astorga.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
It definitely is. Walking from the centre to Virgen del Camino, then taking the turn-off to Mazarrffe is quite nice. A bit of city, then a lot of open countryside.The Camino Real route leaving La Virgen del Camino is probably better,
It looks a very dreary industrialised route. I took a bus from the centre to Virgin de Camino - not expensive and only.took 20 miutes or so. From VdeC you have a choice of two routes. I took the more rural one ( still wasnt a very beautiful stretch.) Your reward is that Astorga awaits you. Lovely place.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
In May 2022 I took the city bus to the outskirts of town when leaving Leon. I felt it was the right choice for managing my limited time and physical stamina at that point in my Camino. I did not regret that I missed walking those 4+/- miles. I did not feel that I had cheated or missed the full pilgrim experience. This was the only time I rode a bus. I was grateful to the guidebook author whose suggestion gave me "permission" to opt for the bus.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
I also found that area to be run down and, as a female, I personally would make sure I'm walking with someone, or near another hiker. But it wouldn't keep me from walking it.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
You can - some do. As other have said, Leon is surrounded by a light industrial belt. In this 7-10 km belt are light industry, big box stores, warehouses, etc.
It is not an especially 'pretty" area. But, I accept that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, when I leave Leon, I do it on a local bus. I get off at La Virgen del Camino. There I have a coffee and continue walking. This is what I do. I do not impose this thought on others. But, as I see what I leap-frogged over coming out of Leon, I am not sorry I made this choice - three times.
If you choose to skip over the grey industrial area, you can easily get a bus at the Estacion de Autobuses on the other side of the river from downtown.
I hope this helps.
Tom
Baloney! I have walked into and out of Leon 5 times, and bicycled once. No areas are sketchy, and I found none of it ugly. It is plenty well marked, although I did get lost in the dark early one morning; but that led to a miraculous adventure. All part of the Camino. I have also cycled and walked the N120 to Hospital de Orbigos, but prefer the country walk through Villar de Mazarife; much more peaceful than the highway. I would never recommend anyone take a taxi to skip any part of the Camino unless they were extremely sick or injured.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
We took a Leon city bus out of the city. weI have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
We met a fellow perigrino at the Leon cathedral before we set out from Leon. She advised taking the city bus out of Leon which we did. It certainly made the stage easierI have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
If you survive the Paris metro after 10pm anything on the Camino is a breeze.Not sketchy, but some rough looking people when i did it, but I think it was mainly the part of town. The section I didn't feel 100% comfortable in was the last maybe half a mile before you climb the hill to Virgen del Camino. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it was like walking though a really bad area, but it had a weird feel to it, a feeling I only had a in a handful of places while on Camino (Ponferrada if you ignore the massive Camino detour and walk straight in on the main road, the area outside Astorga where Denise disappeared, some of the wilder parts of the Sarria-Santiago section).
My main complaint (if you want to call it that) had nothing to do with sketchiness, it was just the complete pollution level when you walk up the hill, exacerbated by the fact the main road is basically off to the left of you. You know it's bad when you can taste the diesel fumes in the air. If you have asthma or even bad asthma, then i would avoid the hill when it's warm/hot. The pollution was hard on my lungs.
If you survive the Paris metro after 10pm anything on the Camino is a breezeNot sketchy, but some rough looking people when i did it, but I think it was mainly the part of town. The section I didn't feel 100% comfortable in was the last maybe half a mile before you climb the hill to Virgen del Camino. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it was like walking though a really bad area, but it had a weird feel to it, a feeling I only had a in a handful of places while on Camino (Ponferrada if you ignore the massive Camino detour and walk straight in on the main road, the area outside Astorga where Denise disappeared, some of the wilder parts of the Sarria-Santiago section).
My main complaint (if you want to call it that) had nothing to do with sketchiness, it was just the complete pollution level when you walk up the hill, exacerbated by the fact the main road is basically off to the left of you. You know it's bad when you can taste the diesel fumes in the air. If you have asthma or even bad asthma, then i would avoid the hill when it's warm/hot. The pollution was hard on my lungs.
It's all relative. You can take a series of buses, trains and taxis from SJPdP to Santiago making things a bit easier?We took a Leon city bus out of the city. we
We met a fellow perigrino at the Leon cathedral before we set out from Leon. She advised taking the city bus out of Leon which we did. It certainly made the stage easier
Solo woman here. It was fine. No sketchy people, no 'weird vibe,' just not particularly pretty. People are making it sound worse than it is. I was nervous about this part, having read posts like the ones here and was pleasntly surprised. It's definitely not scenic, but it's not awful or remotely scary, eitheralso found that area to be run down and, as a female, I personally would make sure I'm walking with someone, or near another hiker.
We took a taxi to La Virgen del Camino and walked from there. We're pretty fanatical about walking every part of the Camino, but this one section we are happy to have skipped.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
but this one section we are happy to have skipped.
I am not sorry I made this choice - three times.
It's the only part of the Frances that I skipped and feel no regret.
I did not regret that I missed walking those 4+/- miles.
These quotes are not meant to be personal - they're just examples from this thread, and eady to find. But I've lost track of the number of similar posts I've read here on the Forum - now it seems to be an established thing to do, enshrined in the same way as 'you have to start in SJPP.' So I may be Canute facing the tide.I did not regret that I missed walking those 4+/- miles. I did not feel that I had cheated or missed the full pilgrim experience
Yes, it's not tourisically pretty. But people live here. It's their home. And if we can actually connect with that, and with them, dreary becomes joyful.Twice I followed the “advice” and took a bus into Leon from Mansilla de las Mulas and another out of Leon to Virgen del Camino. The third time I walked into Leon, stayed for two nights, and walked out. I really enjoyed seeing everything I had missed before!
Maryanne, I see you are being thorough in your preparation. You do not say where you found the information, but you have given me a new meaning for sketchy. I have been under the misapprehension it meant under-done. As in, a lazy piece of research on a topic for school. Or hazy, as in vague memory.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Bus is good, cheap and works well. We boarded at 8:30 am and we started at Virgin Del Camino by 9:00. The route we drove along through Leon didn’t look very appealing, industrial, busy traffic.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
It never occurred to me to skip that part, or any part of the Camino for aesthetic reasons.These quotes are not meant to be personal - they're just examples from this thread, and eady to find. But I've lost track of the number of similar posts I've read here on the Forum - now it seems to be an established thing to do, enshrined in the same way as 'you have to start in SJPP.' So I may be Canute facing the tide.
But an honest question: how can you know what you missed when you missed it? It might seem from a bus to be a certain way, but walking is a different thing.
As Rowena's experience shows, you can't tell what it's like to walk this until you've actually walked it.
Yes, it's not tourisically pretty. But people live here. It's their home. And if we can actually connect with that, and with them, dreary becomes joyful.
What it looked like and what it actually is when you walk it ard 2 entirely different things. The OP askedThe route we drove along through Leon didn’t look very appealing, industrial, busy traffic.
Lots of people who took a bus say it was 'unappealing;' no doubt that's what they thought while looking out the window. But their feet and senses and hearts didn't actually experience the neighborhoods they drove past. Opinion and judgemental perception don't count as insight.Does anyone have insight about this?
I can totally relate to all you wrote …In 2011 I walked the CF or should I say I nearly walked the CF. Following advice, I took a taxi to the outskirts of Leon. The result was that I felt I hadn’t walked the Camino and the following year I returned to walk the full Camino!
If you’re happy walking out of Logrono in the morning you should be happy walking out of Leon. You may have regrets if you don’t. If you’re fit enough do.
I know, wait for it, “it’s your Camino”. Mine happens to be walking every step from SJPdeP to Santiago with my pack on my back. My greatest admiration and respect goes to those whose Camino is from home to Santiago or Le Puy etc. Sadly I’m getting old and tired so the next one will be from SJ.
Score Incomplete CF 1- Complete CF 8.
The bus costs €1.50 (or it did last April, anyway) and takes you to la Virgen - I took it (it was the one short cut of my Camino) because I really didn't feel like more urban sprawl walking that morning, and Leon is particularly sprawly. Also meant I got to my albergue in Hospital de Orbigo that afternoon about a minute before an absolute downpour began!There is an urban bus in the commercial plaza that goes directly to Virgin starting early every morning. The walk up that hill is not “sketchy” it is just nasty urban sprawl.
On the two occasions I have left Leon I have not encountered any problems or difficultiesI have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Is this correct?Walk along the river and just keep going until it meets up with the Camino as you leave Leon. It is pretty. I walked in the early morning and I passed a few people jogging and walking their dogs. Not too much traffic at all (It was in early December and the sun was not up yet).
Go to the bus station and take the bus. Get off when you reach the outskirts of Leon !I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Sounds like me too. A few years back I walked from my home in Wales almost to SJPDP. On what should have been my last day I had a fall and prolapsed spinal disc about 20km from the town. Game over!I can totally relate to all you wrote …
I once was transferred by taxi from an albergue that was totally packed to the next albergue that still had beds available. The next morning I took a taxi 10k back to the first place as I just could not skip a single inch of the way
Ouch.A few years back I walked from my home in Wales almost to SJPDP. On what should have been my last day I had a fall and prolapsed spinal disc about 20km from the town. Game over!
Sounds like me too. A few years back I walked from my home in Wales almost to SJPDP. On what should have been my last day I had a fall and prolapsed spinal disc about 20km from the town. Game over!Later in the year when I was fully recovered I found I had a few days to spare on an Interrail pass and used them to travel to Bidarray Pont Noblia to walk those last few km. Unfinished business that would have constantly nagged at me otherwise. Each to their own but the idea of cherry-picking sections of a route to walk does not sit well with my own understanding of pilgrimage.
In summer 2015 I walked from Canterbury to Rome. Except for the wet salty part between Dover and Calais where I took a P&O ferry. I still occasionally feel a little guilty about that and wonder if for real completeness I should have swum that part. But you can push ideals a little too far....But still it haunts me sometimes today – after several decades have passed – that I did not do it all in one go and in the right order
Didn't look much lived in when I passed through in January. Though the building work was mostly completed.I experienced no sketchy areas on the whole Frances route, but a "spooky" experience for me was walking through the deserted town of Ciruena in 2015 and 2017.; possibly it has been revived in more recent years.
Thank you @VNwalking . As you so aptly state, "how can you know what you missed when you missed it?"These quotes are not meant to be personal - they're just examples from this thread, and eady to find. But I've lost track of the number of similar posts I've read here on the Forum - now it seems to be an established thing to do, enshrined in the same way as 'you have to start in SJPP.' So I may be Canute facing the tide.
But an honest question: how can you know what you missed when you missed it? It might seem from a bus to be a certain way, but walking is a different thing.
As Rowena's experience shows, you can't tell what it's like to walk this until you've actually walked it.
Yes, it's not tourisically pretty. But people live here. It's their home. And if we can actually connect with that, and with them, dreary becomes joyful.
Is this correct?
The Rio Bernesga goes approx. North-South through Leon and the camino crosses it at Puente de San Marcos, going West. If you follow the river going North you pretty much end up on the San Salvador, but I don't think that's the intention here. I'm not aware of any other river options for taking you out of Leon on the CF to La Virgen and beyond.
You know since in my younger days way back when and I partook in quite a few substances that some may consider illegal, my memory is not what it once was. Your comments made me question my already unstable sanity. Was it Burgos????I came to the same conclusion. That sounds like the walk out of Burgos to me.
In 2013, I thought that place was called ‘Se Vende’ there were so many signs.I experienced no sketchy areas on the whole Frances route, but a "spooky" experience for me was walking through the deserted town of Ciruena in 2015 and 2017.; possibly it has been revived in more recent years.
My guess is they are talking something like this. Which would allow you to avoid much of the craziness near the cathedral and instead enjoy a slightly more peaceful walk next to the river. I don't think they meant follow it all the way out.Is this correct?
The Rio Bernesga goes approx. North-South through Leon and the camino crosses it at Puente de San Marcos, going West. If you follow the river going North you pretty much end up on the San Salvador, but I don't think that's the intention here. I'm not aware of any other river options for taking you out of Leon on the CF to La Virgen and beyond.
Marked well enough. If I found my way thru, anyone can. However, it is a soul destroying walk thru city streets and industrial area. Second time I was there, I walked down to the plaza below cathedral and took the bus up to Virgin del Camino. Check with tourist office facing cathedral and they will tell you the bus number. Unfortunately, I can't remember it. It's the first bus stop you come to as you turn into the plaza. Cheaper than a taxiI have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Really? I've done it twice, and my soul is quite intact. It's interesting to see where Spaniards (our hosts) live and work.However, it is a soul destroying walk thru city streets and industrial area.
I am bursting with joy every time I leave Alicante (three times by now) walking straight into the industrial suburbs! I know it is the first day of my Camino and I have grown fond of that part. Chimneys, rusty cars and roaming pigs abound. I wouldn't change it for anything.
Then again, OP is talking about a different city and not a first stage with that excitement of the 1st day of walking... Still, I don't mind the industrial suburbs. If they are ugly enough, they embellish what comes after even more...
Suggesting that he 'suggests' the bus seems to be stretching what he says, at least in my now rather aged copy of his guide. He does identify the possibility of taking the bus into and out of the city in one of the longest discussions I have seen on what seemed to me a minor matter. It contains a plea for both those who travel by bus and those who don't to be kind in their consideration of the others. I wonder if this choice was as contentious back in 2009 as it still appears to be today?But then again, doesn’t Brierley suggest a bus into Leon?
Probably more contentious then. I walked my second Camino in 2002 - shortly before Brierley's first guide was published. I can remember one person who took buses to skip a few sections and so became the subject of a lot of bemused comment amongst those of us walking at the time. I can't imagine it being a very surprising event these days.I wonder if this choice was as contentious back in 2009 as it still appears to be today?
I’ll accept your correction. I don’t own his guidebooks, so I was stretching into my memory of what I have read in other people’s copies.Suggesting that he 'suggests' the bus seems to be stretching what he says, at least in my now rather aged copy of his guide. He does identify the possibility of taking the bus into and out of the city in one of the longest discussions I have seen on what seemed to me a minor matter. It contains a plea for both those who travel by bus and those who don't to be kind in their consideration of the others. I wonder if this choice was as contentious back in 2009 as it still appears to be today?
I have to admit that although I own a Brierley guide, I have only skimmed it. But a friend who is planning her stages has been reading hers, and she said that "Brierley recommends taking a bus into León." Of course I don't know how accurate her quote was.Suggesting that he 'suggests' the bus seems to be stretching what he says, at least in my now rather aged copy of his guide.
Short and to the point. Thanks, Reb.What does a pilgrim do?
A pilgrim walks.
For several reasons, I walk. My mindset is that I have to take what comes. Cherrypicking is not for me.What does a pilgrim do?
A pilgrim walks.
While I personally would never do anything else but walk, I still have to add here: ... or rides, or is aboard a boat or any other kind of means of transportation that gets him closer to his destination. A pilgrim simply travels to a destination that is holy to him or has at least some spiritual meaning. The means of travel already in the olden days were dependent on the financial means of the traveler. While by today standards all kinds of travel available some centuries ago would be considered quite exhausting, by the standards of those times some pilgrims would travel quite luxuriously.What does a pilgrim do?
A pilgrim walks.
I’ll accept your correction. I don’t own his guidebooks, so I was stretching into my memory of what I have read in other people’s copies.
To quote the text from my 2009 Brierley 'there is the possibility to avoid the busy (and dangerous) main road into Leon by taking the regular bus service from Mansilla direct to the city centre' p. 176.she said that "Brierley recommends taking a bus into León."
A Google Earth fly over of the CF from León to Villar de Mazarife. YouTube video id: DMJCniWL2RQ
A time lapsed walk of the CF from León to Hospital de Órbigo. YouTube video id: ySLbh_EfIG4
Yes, times have changed.Probably more contentious then.
I share @VNwalking's view on this. It is something that I thought about last year doing the CP, and made the following comments at the time:But what is certain is that the neighborhoods on the outskirts of Leon (on either side) are neither sketchy nor hyperbolically 'soul destroying.' People - good people, kind people - live there for goodness sake, and they aren't zombies.
andIt seems to me that whether it is Porto, Leon, Burgos or anywhere else, the urban and industrial areas at the outskirts of these cities are the places where people live and work, raise their families, earn their income, play sport, attend their churches, and so many other things. It seemed to me that it would be disdainful not to walk through these areas. Concrete and asphalt are going to be harder on one's feet than other surfaces. The aesthetic appeal of historic city centres or the bucolic ambience of more rural settings isn't there to distract one from these less appealing places. But these are the places where the local people live out the bulk of their lives, and equally deserving of being part of my pilgrimage as any of the other places I walked.
I walked the Central Route earlier this year, after walking from Lisbon via Fatima. I chose not to skip any sections. Certainly the stage from Porto north lacks the aesthetic appeal of the city and you don't reach the relative calm of farmland until much later in that stage. But it is where many Portuguese live and work, and I thought it would be disdainful to ignore that, and them, in my own pilgrim experience. After all, there is little of the countryside that hasn't been altered by the hands of man, as have these urban landscapes.
I've just been looking at the same part of the 2016 edition. The language is indeed very loaded - is the route into (and out of) Leon really "dangerous"? I walked it quite recently and nothing I saw made me think so. Taken as a whole that part of the guide really does seem to be advocating that walkers skip the sections between Mansilla de las Mulas and Virgen del Camino and use public transport to cross the entire greater Leon urban area. The following paragraph where he questions the merits of walking the whole of a chosen route reads like a defence of that approach. The importance of intention in a pilgrimage is a key issue for me and I'm glad to see that he raises it. Brierley suggests that ego may be a factor in this: that may well be true but I think it is only one partial factor. I am finding it difficult to think of any well-considered intention underpinning a pilgrimage which would support only choosing to walk those parts of a route which are superficially attractive. I am assuming that Brierley is being facetious when he suggests that walking beyond Santiago to Finisterre is in any sense compensation for kilometres skipped earlier in one's journey. If not then we obviously see this matter very differently.I don't read into this any recommendation to take the bus, although he does make it clear in the rather loaded language preceding this that he doesn't think the walk in from Mansilla is pleasant.
True. The intention underlying a holiday would, though.I am finding it difficult to think of any well-considered intention underpinning a pilgrimage which would support only choosing to walk those parts of a route which are superficially attractive.
As I recollect my first camino in 2010, much of what I read about the entry into Leon focussed on the crossing of the N-601 that involved the broad equivalent of the computer game Frogger, with pilgrims having to choose the moments when the traffic was just right to start walking across the road. In 2010, this crossing had been replaced by a on overhead pedestrian bridge, which completely removed what looked like it would have been a very dangerous crossing. If my memory serves me correctly, there was no evidence that there had even been a pedestrian crosswalk installed, let alone some of the other pedestrian aids one might expect today.The language is indeed very loaded - is the route into (and out of) Leon really "dangerous"? I walked it quite recently and nothing I saw made me think so.
the crossing of the N-601 that involved the broad equivalent of the computer game Frogger, with pilgrims having to choose the moments when the traffic was just right to start walking across the road.
Good point. There was also the very scary bridge before Villarente, also much changed now.So I suspect labelling the approach into Leon as dangerous might well have been justified before the footbridge was installed, but @Bradypus, like you I couldn't see that it was justified when I walked in 2010.
Make no doubt about it, prior to 2010 the path to León was a harrowing experience. And once upon a time the Yellow Brick road out of Villafranca was without a physical barrier. Thankfully both of these situations have been improved for the better.As I recollect my first camino in 2010, much of what I read about the entry into Leon focussed on the crossing of the N-601 that involved the broad equivalent of the computer game Frogger, with pilgrims having to choose the moments when the traffic was just right to start walking across the road. In 2010, this crossing had been replaced by a on overhead pedestrian bridge, which completely removed what looked like it would have been a very dangerous crossing. If my memory serves me correctly, there was no evidence that there had even been a pedestrian crosswalk installed, let alone some of the other pedestrian aids one might expect today.
So I suspect labelling the approach into Leon as dangerous might well have been justified before the footbridge was installed, but @Bradypus, like you I couldn't see that it was justified when I walked in 2010.
Amen. There seems way more over-thinking, over-viewing, and over-preparing than there used to be. The huge number of blogs, vlogs videos, and books makes for both angst and expectation.The post that started this thread has me thinking that modern pilgrims know WAY to much about the camino prior to starting. A part of me worries that they are shaping their experience prior to even starting it.
I never found it scary, it's a bit industrial walking to Virgen del Camino, but a lot more housing has gone up since I first walked it. Depending on time of year, you could ask to walk with someone, but there are usually a lot of other peregrino walking from Leon. There are long stretches of highway on the road route, and lots of arrows giving you one last chance to take the alternate route, but I didn't ever find way marking difficult. Road route to Hospital de Orbigo is shorter overall, more opportunities to stop, eat, sleep, other route easier on the feet and less traffic. The first turn off to the alternate route was a little confusing leaving Virgen del Camino, but it's been a while since I took it.I have read that the path out of Leon is not well marked and goes through a sketchy area. It was suggested that pilgrims take a taxi to the outskirts of the city and pick up the Camino outside the city. Does anyone have insight about this? Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you,
Maryanne
Yes, it has been thoroughly informed/debated here in this thread eariler.I have NOT read this entire thread, so someone probably already posted this information.
But you can jump on a city bus to Virgen del Camino and walk from there. Cost is less than 2 euros.
At the San Froilan church, I cross the highway and take the LEFT route.
I do not walk the highway route.
Indeed they have, several times, and it's now become the main debate. This is one good reason... no, it's precisely the reason it's important to read a thread before commenting.I have NOT read this entire thread, so someone probably already posted this information.
angst and expectations to be disappointed for some ... but joyful anticipation for othersAmen. There seems way more over-thinking, over-viewing, and over-preparing than there used to be. The huge number of blogs, vlogs videos, and books makes for both angst and expectation.
It's never what you think it will be.
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