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Thanks @nycwalking .Um!
Beware of being so spiritually minded you are no Earthly good.
You are walking.
You are walking and collecting requisite sellos per day.
You made a mistake whilst ambulating towards your goal.
Your earned Compostela awaits.
Timr: Buen camino
Thanks @nycwalking . ❤ I am however 100% certain I did not make a mistake.
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually
Thanks! Geography not my strong point!Monte Faro (1187 mts) is the highest point in Pontevedra province, but not of Galicia.
The highest mountain of Galicia is Pena Trevinca (2120 mts) in the border with Zamora province, not far from Camino Sanabres.
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But you are required, to obtain a compostelle, to walk at least 100 km from your starting-point to SdC. You began in Ponferrada. No matter what route you took, it is not possible to get from Ponferrada to SdC without travelling more than 100 km—or 200 km, for that matter.
What route you may have taken from the 100-km waymarker is neither here nor there. If no waymarkers of any kind on the Invierno existed, you would have had to make your way from Ponferrada to SdC by whatever route you thought best, just as our pilgrim forebears did all those centuries ago.
Exactly, and that is my point. You cannot make your own route, according to the Pilgrim Office.Actually to obtain a compostela you are required to walk the LAST 100km and it must be on a 'recognized route'.
So, if I walked every step from Moscow but took a 5km bus ride somewhere past Sarria I would not qualify.
Or if I made my own route into Santiago city which was not a 'recognised route'.
Davey
Thanks, you are very kind. But there has been a good bit of discussion on the forum and I believe we have established that you MUST use an “approved” or “official” route. Only. You cannot make your own route. If you are a resident of Galicia, you cannot for instance just walk from your home, even if it is more than 100km.A worker in the Pilgrim Office will probably look at your starting point, then for the two stamps a day (many recognise those stamps), and engage you in conversation that will elicit answers from you. If there is nothing untoward, you'll probably have the compostela, which in my opinion, you certainly deserve. Fretting about this sort of thing proves you are, I reckon, an honest pilgrim doing their very best. Good luck to you.
I too thought initially that you had taken a bus or taxi -that could be a reason for some ethical concerns.
But a little detour does not seem to me as the matter of a moral dilemma.
I just can't imagine a volunteer in the pilgrim office asking a walker to deliver his/her phone to scrutinize the distance effectively walked. They surely will check the departing point, the stamps for the last 100 km, and that will be all.
I would like to agree with youI too thought initially that you had taken a bus or taxi -that could be a reason for some ethical concerns.
But a little detour does not seem to me as the matter of a moral dilemma.
I just can't imagine a volunteer in the pilgrim office asking a walker to deliver his/her phone to scrutinize the distance effectively walked. They surely will check the departing point, the stamps for the last 100 km, and that will be all.
Exactly, and that is my point. You cannot make your own route, according to the Pilgrim Office.
Thanks @Davey Boyd , I disagree with it too. But neither of us makes the rulesYes Tim, but in my mind there is a difference from a slight detour to not using a camino at all. I still think conscience wise you should not worry.
By the way I disagree with the 'recognised route' rule. To me, if you are walking, it is valid. I'm not even sure why it was implemented at all. Maybe to save time in the office which can get overworked, but still.
Davey
ThanksForgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But you are required, to obtain a compostelle, to walk at least 100 km from your starting-point to SdC. You began in Ponferrada. No matter what route you took, it is not possible to get from Ponferrada to SdC without travelling more than 100 km—or 200 km, for that matter.
What route you may have taken from the 100-km waymarker is neither here nor there. If no waymarkers of any kind on the Invierno existed, you would have had to make your way from Ponferrada to SdC by whatever route you thought best, just as our pilgrim forebears did all those centuries ago.
The Compostela is in the cathedral's gift. They are of course free to set whatever rules they wish. But personally I find the "recognised route" rule a step too far. I will not be amongst those asking for one in future. I would be interested to hear what you finally decide to do and what response if any the pilgrim office gives you.Thanks @Davey Boyd , I disagree with it too. But neither of us makes the rules.
Seriously?Can anyone help me?
You passed through Chantada. This is apparently the minimum starting point for those who wish to do obtain a Compostela. See Distancias mínimas para dar la credencial y recibir la Compostela. A somewhat official statement. And it does NOT mean that the distance between Chantada and SdC is 100 km. [As a matter of principle, I have my doubts about pretty much everything I read online when it does not come directly from the primary source. Was the person who provided this information an official spokesperson for the Oficina?].Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
And neither does anyone here know what "official" means in the context of your dilemma. We go by what we read in online forums. There's an official, legally defined trazado for the Camino Invierno defined by the Xunta. The purpose of it has nothing to do with Compostelas. Whether the Cathedral has said that pilgrims have to stick to it to the last millimetre is anyone's guess. But in any case, this is about the course of the official trail and not about any official distances from one point to another point. Distances in guidebooks are definitely not official distances. And what your GPS measures is not an official distance either.I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
We've already established that this is a false argument. You have to walk at least 100 km without interruption on the Camino Invierno to Santiago but not some predefined exact 100 km. You can walk through a town any way you want, for example, including taking shortcuts compared to the marked trail. And by extension, I am tempted to say, the same applies to the trail between two villages or towns on the Camino Invierno. You have fulfilled all the requirements, in letter and certainly in spirit.And in so doing, in the final 100 km, I have NOT walked 100 km.
This would be the real dilemma for me. I would not be able to resist the temptation to present this "ethical dilemma" to them and with a straight face. And obviously insist on going through the hierarchy at the Oficina, as high as possible, if the answer given is not satisfactory. I would regard it as a service to the online pilgrim community.But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path?
And indeed we have been told that phone records have been scrutinised in the past to root out cheating.
Yes, honestly. And very sadly.Honestly? That must have been some pretty blatant cheating they suspected ...
I am hugely tempted so to do @Kathar1na and as a priest I would be happy to face +Julián, the bishop. Unfortunately I am a little short of time on this occasion and have not yet decided how best to proceed.Seriously?
This would be the real dilemma for me. I would not be able to resist the temptation to present this "ethical dilemma" to them and with a straight face. And obviously insist on going through the hierarchy at the Oficina, as high as possible, if the answer given is not satisfactory. I would regard it as a service to the online pilgrim community.
I find the walking leads to thinking......"The letter of the Law kills, but the Spirit of the Law gives life."
Don't think so much. Just walk. That is what pilgrims do.
You have to walk at least 100 km without interruption on the Camino Invierno to Santiago but not some predefined exact 100 km.
/QUOTE]
I have a question about the without interruption part. Do you mean that a pilgrim cannot interupt or stop partway through the final 100K one year and return the following year even it the sellos indicate that the pilgrim stopped and resumed at the same location? We sure can make this complicated for ourselves!
Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion...
Come on, Tim... Are you serious?Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Hi @simply B - I think you may have mixed these two ideas up. A GPS can only measure the distance of the actual trail that you walk as it marks your position at designated intervals from a satellite signal, the sum of these intervals makes up your total distance walked.Your GPS only registers the “as the crow flies” direct distance. It does NOT measure actual distance walked which is a completely different animal!
Hi again,@jozero -
With all due respect, I am unlikely mistaken in this regard. GPS marks lateral displacement on an ideal planar surface. The altitudinal displacement is NOT FIGURED IN. Please do check the link on Naismith's Rule.
Pax,
B
Yes, and its uses should not include the checking of the Pilgrim's office stage measurements and the second-guessing of your pilgrimage validity.I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses.
Question , what is your point of all this.?Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
My guess is - but it’s just a guess of course - that it’s about the policy of the Oficina del Peregrino and/or the Cathedral (assuming that they pursue identical policies) concerning the conditions and the methods for awarding Compostelas and for recognising official Camino routes, as well as about their lack of transparency and lack of direct communication with the pilgrims community at large, and the fact that these policies and methods are apparently getting more and more complicated if not to say hard to comprehend.Question, what is your point of all this? It's all about the walk.
Thanks, you are very kind. But there has been a good bit of discussion on the forum and I believe we have established that you MUST use an “approved” or “official” route. Only. You cannot make your own route. If you are a resident of Galicia, you cannot for instance just walk from your home, even if it is more than 100km.
The subject became silly a long time ago - at the point when the cathedral instituted a rule requiring one to follow a recognised route in order to receive a Compostela. Without adequately publishing the fact of that new rule or giving any reason for such a change or any explanation of what it actually means in practice. Tim's reductio ad absurdum simply points out the nonsensical situation we now find ourselves in.Well, I think this subject has now become silly
Come on, Tim... Are you serious?
I had to read all the posts to be sure. I almost hit the HAHAHAHA icon knowing you in person.
Ethical problem? I don't see any in your case. You are/will be walking much more than required 100km to the tomb so where's the ethical or administrative glitch? I just can't see it.
Enjoy your CdI and collect the Compostela with a smile
PS (There was a marathon in Ljubljana this weekend)
Can anyone help me?
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
This forum exists to discuss Camino subjects. Sounding flippant adds no value to such a discussion and makes me wonder why you would write it if you already knew it would sound flippant. Perhaps the Tao of Thumper would be an appropriate guideline to follow...Sorry for sounding flippant but in a world so full of strive I think you should “get over yourself” and come back to the real world.
at the point when the cathedral instituted a rule requiring one to follow a recognised route in order to receive a Compostela
I completely agree that it is nonsense. Unfortunately it is also the pilgrim office's policy as explicitly stated on the latest version of their credencial. I would be very interested to know what particular piece of canon law you believe applies to the cathedral's conditions for issuing a Compostela and in what respect you believe this particular demand is incompatible with it.But it's just nonsense, and BTW it is also AFAIK a direct contradiction of the Canon Law.
Those who go to the Apostle's Tomb for religious and / or spiritual reasons, and following the paths of the Camino de Santiago on foot, by bicycle or on horseback.My guess is - but it’s just a guess of course - that it’s about the policy of the Oficina del Peregrino and/or the Cathedral (assuming that they pursue identical policies) concerning the conditions and the methods for awarding Compostelas and for recognising official Camino routes, as well as about their lack of transparency and lack of direct communication with the pilgrims community at large, and the fact that these policies and methods are apparently getting more and more complicated if not to say hard to comprehend.
For example, you find nothing about having to follow official or recognised Camino routes on their website, yet this obligation was pointed out to at least one pilgrim when he arrived at the Oficina who then reported about it on the forum. He also posted a copy of the relevant page from a recent edition of their credencial where it is explicitly stated that one has to follow recognised routes. Perhaps you have such a new credencial and can check for yourself?
Or perhaps it’s just about the thoughts that some of us have or that happen to pass through our curious minds while we walk.☺
Oh, this would be so boring. I would not participate in such a threadIt's all about the last 100 or 200km. and the two stamps a day when you want a Compostela.
I completely agree that it is nonsense. Unfortunately it is also the pilgrim office's policy as explicitly stated on the latest version of their credencial. I would be very interested to know what particular piece of canon law you believe applies to the cathedral's conditions for issuing a Compostela and in what respect you believe this particular demand is incompatible with it.
View attachment 66290
Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
My attitude to your dilemma is that it is not a dilemma. Man ticks boxes, God does not. You have earned it as much as any other pilgrim on the camino and God knows what is in your heart. Many think the compostella is just a certificate but it is actually a church document issued by the Catholic church so if your intentions are good of heart, take your compostella and hang it on your wall for all to seeCan anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
"The letter of the Law kills, but the Spirit of the Law gives life."
I don't think the Pilgrim Office volunteers are Pharisees enough to give you a hard time on this. The 100-km. "Law" is not a legitimate measure of a pilgrim. (If they want to get technical, the Invierno isn't a historical Camino to Santiago, either, but somehown they declared it "official.")
Don't think so much. Just walk. That is what pilgrims do.
My point is that the pilgrim office do check, in their efforts to exclude those who “cheat” from receiving a Compostela. There has been a lot of discussion on that here.I can't believe that you are serious. You are trivializing the easily-understood principles for the awarding of a compostella.
Yes, and its uses should not include the checking of the Pilgrim's office stage measurements and the second-guessing of your pilgrimage validity.
Thanks @Zordmot and I’m happy to say my bishop has no requirements!I agree with Rebekah. I'm not sure where all this legalistic stuff came into what was essentially a spiritual walk by pilgrims that was something they did in response to an inner call. I'm guessing that the Compostela was granted as a response to some people who hadn't really done the journey but claimed to in order to reap the rewards of people's admiration and respect. Then during the medieval period the church was rewarding pilgrims, big donors, and crusaders with indulgences and such so that a piece of paper then had the value of forgiving sins, getting relatives out of purgatory and other things that negated the church's faith in Christ. So the paper became the primary thing, and the journey was secondary. One of my seminary professors would often quote a famous old greek phrase that went "the thing itself justifieth itself" . Walking the Camino, experiencing the Camino, being totally present with each step of the Camino is THE THING, not a piece of paper. Unless of course your bishop requires it.....
Thanks @tpmchugh I am laughing as I read your message, just about to set out on final day. And it is not raining . Yet!My attitude to your dilemma is that it is not a dilemma. Man ticks boxes, God does not. You have earned it as much as any other pilgrim on the camino and God knows what is in your heart. Many think the compostella is just a certificate but it is actually a church document issued by the Catholic church so if your intentions are good of heart, take your compostella and hang it on your wall for all to see
Thanks. I am not putting much faith in the future (distant I hope) usefulness of a Compostela, But I would indeed put some hope on the usefulness of pilgrimage in that respect, not per se, but for where it might lead me!To most modern Brits Ethics is a county next to Thuthex.
Just take a number, collect your compostella - if you can be bothered waiting - and sort it out in confession if you’re so inclined.
You will be in a very small minority in trying to argue yourself out of a document of dubious value.
Your performance of a pilgrimage with positive intent, with or without a certificate, may count in your favour at some time in the (hopefully distant) future. I’m personally counting on it!
Best wishes.
Yeah but ... from my experience in the office, we only have the stamps to go by. So if you have all the requisite stamps - 2 per days from the 100km in at reasonable “believable” intervals, for longer caminos again a reasonable credible sequence of stamps for the route then you shouldn’t have problems. Questions get asked when the stamps don’t make sense at first glance (that doesn’t necessarily mean cheating) or when people do really long stages especially in the last 100km. Or questions just to make conversation and connect to the pilgrim....My point is that the pilgrim office do check, in their efforts to exclude those who “cheat” from receiving a Compostela. There has been a lot of discussion on that here.
I'm touched by your kindness and of course have nothing but admiration and gratitude for the work of all the PO staff, most especially the volunteers.Yeah but ... from my experience in the office, we only have the stamps to go by. So if you have all the requisite stamps - 2 per days from the 100km in at reasonable “believable” intervals, for longer caminos again a reasonable credible sequence of stamps for the route then you shouldn’t have problems. Questions get asked when the stamps don’t make sense at first glance (that doesn’t necessarily mean cheating) or when people do really long stages especially in the last 100km. Or questions just to make conversation and connect to the pilgrim....
Absolutely there must exist people who cheat... I know I have had my suspicions with some people presenting at the desk... but that’s all they are... if they have the stamps there’s not much I can do about my instincts about the person (and I could well be wrong too!!)
I have seen instances where a pilgrims phone was used to help establish their route - usually done where they were unable to get a stamp for a day or had lost a credential at the earlier stage of the camino. Not to “root out cheating” per se.
Don’t sweat the small stuff......
My tuppence worth is that there's a BIG difference between ethics and rules. Ethics and principles merit very serious consideration - the minutiae of rules: not so much. Don't sweat the small stuff, peregrino!
So what possessed someone to insert these lines in the credencial now and why? It seems ridiculous to me. It seems to me that they are losing sight of what a Jacobean pilgrimage in the Christian sense actually is.
Tim's reductio ad absurdum simply points out the nonsensical situation we now find ourselves in.
A bit absolutist!Nonetheless I remain sad if even one person per year is caught cheating
To most modern Brits Ethics is a county next to Thuthex.
Just take a number, collect your compostella - if you can be bothered waiting - and sort it out in confession if you’re so inclined.
You will be in a very small minority in trying to argue yourself out of a document of dubious value.
Your performance of a pilgrimage with positive intent, with or without a certificate, may count in your favour at some time in the (hopefully distant) future. I’m personally counting on it!
Best wishes.
Yes, but IIRC, @timr is a priest. He is the person who HEARS confessions. In that context, one presupposes he ought (or at least tries very much) to remain above the fray. Setting a good example and all that... But I digress...
Yes, I know that even the Pope attends near daily confession, though for WHAT I can only imagine. In any event. I applaud timr's sharing his felt ethical dilemma with us here. His OP likely resonated with MANY other pilgrims who either willfully, or inadvertently engaged in any variety of detours on their Caminos.
It happens. One wrong turn and all of a sudden you are higgly-piggly all over the place. Several kilometers can easily be added or deleted in such a manner.
The staff at the P/O know this as well. THAT is why they focus on your direction of travel (towards Santiago), line-of-march, and overall distance covered. On every given route, they KNOW the typical sellos to expect within the final 100 km or so. It is divergence from this expected pattern that causes added questions.
Hope this helps.
ThanksA bit absolutist!
Who cares? It certainly does not diminish what I have done. I am a rules kind of guy, but not to the point that I worry about the behavior of others. I am having a hard time contemplating ruining my camino weeks or months later by being concerned about cheaters.
For an anti-rules kind of guy you seem quite interested in determining whether or not you have followed them to the nth degree of minutiae. ;-)I guess though I'm an anti-rules kind of guy!
No worries. You have earned and well deserved your compostela.Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
First rule, don't put anything in writing, especially on pilgrim forums where the eagle - eyed Compostela infringement police could be scanning casually while enjoying a lovely café con leche and inking their Compostela rubber stampsCan anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
First rule, don't put anything in writing, especially on pilgrim forums where the eagle - eyed Compostela infringement police could be scanning casually while enjoying a lovely café con leche and inking their Compostela rubber stampsCan anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
As others mentioned before, I think there is no dilemma....
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
...
I totally agree with this. As the crow flies, the distance from Ponferrada to Santiago is 164 km.Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But you are required, to obtain a compostelle, to walk at least 100 km from your starting-point to SdC. You began in Ponferrada. No matter what route you took, it is not possible to get from Ponferrada to SdC without travelling more than 100 km—or 200 km, for that matter.
What route you may have taken from the 100-km waymarker is neither here nor there. If no waymarkers of any kind on the Invierno existed, you would have had to make your way from Ponferrada to SdC by whatever route you thought best, just as our pilgrim forebears did all those centuries ago.
Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Claim your compostella you have earned it. I walked Invierno in September and struggled to get 2 stamps a day in the last 100km. It was not questioned. I admire your honesty. Remember there are people who are happy to jump in a taxi when things get a little tough or time is tight and still claim the compostella. I once saw a person arrive at a alburgue in a taxi, get out and get a sello then jump back in the taxi and then went on their merry way.Can anyone help me?
I have been walking on the Camino de Invierno starting from Ponferrada last Tuesday. Ponferrada is 263km from SdC via the Invierno. I have collected two sellos each day. I have used nothing except my feet for locomotion.
I passed "a" (I don't think it was "the") 100km mojone yesterday, between Monforte de Lemos and Chantada (though my guide says Chantada is still 103km from SdC).
Today's path passed through Penasillás (94.8km from SdC according to my guide) and then proceeds towards the Ermita Nuestra Señora de O Faro - incidentally the highest point in Galicia. And so I did, in the looming cloud, mist, and threatening rain, climbing continually.
I looked at the measured path in my guide and app. I don't know what is "official" nor exactly what that means.
And I looked at Google. I am not glued to GPS but it has its uses. From close to the cloudy summit I could see a path down to Rodeiro at 10km despite my guides assuring me I had 15km "officially" to go.
I took the unwaymarked path which involved a very steep climb on a cleared path at one point and then a very steep descent. I estimate that out of 10km, more than 8.5km were on tracks, not on tarmac. Some were ancient tracks, some were newer clearance.
I reached Rodeiro with 20.07 recorded on my GPS - a Garmin running watch. Not 25.4km as the "official" (again I say, whatever that means) route states.
So does this mean I have not done what is necessary to be awarded a compostela for the Invierno, (assuming I continue walking and continue collecting two sellos each day)?
If I were to apply for a compostela I would resist any attempt by the pilgrim office to scrutinize my phone records as I think that would infringe my human rights.
But should I in conscience report to the pilgrim office that I have veered from the (semi-mythical) official path? And in so doing, in the final 100km, I have NOT walked 100km. I cannot suggest that I got lost. It was a deliberate choice on my part.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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