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Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris, is on fire.

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NorthernLight

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The photo on the BBC site shows massive flames.
 

Delphinoula

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Peregrinopaul

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Shocking images on live TV. What a tragedy is unfolding.
 

Frances Bat

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Horrible sight! Really awful!
 

VNwalking

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Message on Twitter from the Mayor of Paris:
"Un terrible incendie est en cours à la cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris. Les @PompiersParis
sont en train de tenter de maîtriser les flammes. Nous sommes mobilisés sur place en lien étroit avec le @dioceseParis. J'invite chacune et chacun à respecter le périmètre de sécurité."
 
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The whole rooof has now collapsed...
 

Jeff Crawley

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Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
This evening's reportage and images of the Notre Dame fire are heart breaking. April 15, 2019 has now become another date of horrific infamy for Paris.
Not sure about infamy but certainly a tragedy for Paris and the world.
 

Frances Bat

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Oh no! That is awful! Notre Dame is such a priceless building - such a beautiful Gothic cathedral.
 

NorthernLight

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Church spokeman says nothing will be left.
~BBC

I hope everyone got out.
 

biarritzdon

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Beyond quelle dommage. I hope it was and accident and not some deranged idiot!!!! Not that should be the point.
 

CWBuff

Active Member
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in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021"
Its pretty much gone... looking on the videos i cannot imagine how the building can survive...
So much history... so much.... everything... so much "PARIS" 😢
 

VNwalking

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Church spokeman says nothing will be left.
Dear God...such a loss for the world.
Nothing here lasts, ever.
I feel for all of us...and please spare a kind thought for those who may have accidentally caused this. We all make mistakes, and cannot avoid that. They will have a terrible burden to carry, for the rest of their lives.
 
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It was started in 1133, and completed in 1340's. It is unbelievable to think that I am sitting here watching a building that has stood for almost 800 years is being terminated NOW...

Incredibly sad....
 

Phil71

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Awful news. A disaster for the world but particularly the French people. Heart breaking.
 
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It took more than 200 years to build it.

It took less than 2 hours to destroy it.


Some times, the world is unfair.
 

NorthernLight

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It took more than 200 years to build it.

It took less than 2 hours to destroy it.
If you get the chance, visit the Holy Family -Sagrada Familia still under construction in Barcelona and still with another 30-40 years of work to go. It's humbling to see how many lifetimes these places take/took to build.

I wonder how many original manuscripts and objects of art have vanished from existence today. Please, let there have been copies....
 
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If you get the chance, visit the Holy Family -Sagrada Familia still under construction in Barcelona and still with another 30-40 years of work to go. It's humbling to see how many lifetimes these places take/took to build.

I wonder how many original manuscripts and objects of art have vanished from existence today. Please, let there have been copies....
Been there.

Many priceless objects are gone forever tonight..🙁
 
Camino(s) past & future
somewhere between "not enough" and "way too many"
Too many great memories there for me, and I expect, many of you...

This loss is heart-rending but that is rather insignificant to the distress which I imagine the French people in the main are feeling. A friend of mine lives in the area. He is desolated at the moment and doesn't even like the RC Church.

B
 

malingerer

Active Member
This evening's reportage and images of the Notre Dame fire are heart breaking. April 15, 2019 has now become another date of horrific infamy for Paris.
I am a wordsmith but here are none to describe this heartbreak. I stood on the pilgrim stone in the adjacent square so many years ago before I began my first Camino. There are small bars and cafes which are part of my history. It is almost inconceivable that this should happen. I cried my heart out then and am doing so now.

The Malingerer.
 

t2andreo

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The cathedral is more than just a really big Catholic Church. It is one of the seminal buildings that all people think of when they think of France, and Paris. Without Notre Dame, Paris and France are...just less...

With this great architectural masterpiece gone, a huge chunk of Western Civilization is lost...to all of us.

I hope that the people of the world, especially in the western countries, but globally really, appreciate the profound significance of Notre Dame to world history and cooperate to rebuild it, as it was. The value of losing it is greater, in my view, than the cost to rebuild it.

We must resist losing these cultural icons. When they are damaged or destroyed, they must be rebuilt. At least that is my opinion.
 
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VNwalking

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Just now from the Guardian:
The Archbishop of Paris Michel Aupetit has tweeted a message to “all the priests of Paris”:
The firefighters are still fighting to save the towers of Notre-Dame de Paris. The frame, the roof and the spire are consumed. Let us pray. If you wish, you can ring the bells of your churches to invite prayer.
We are all praying right now.
 
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Fire chief of Paris is currently stating that it is uncertain wether the whole structure (stone work) will come down. Main entrance towers and bell tower are burning inside, he says. Old stones may crumble due to the heat, he says...
 

KinkyOne

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Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
...
I wonder how many original manuscripts and objects of art have vanished from existence today. Please, let there have been copies....
While this accident is an awful tragedy the Notre-Dame is one of the most thoroughly documented building in the world. After massive reconstruction works in 19th C only approximately 30% of original building/art/elements etc. was saved. Actually more was added hence the percentage. Again all was documented and I'm sure the Cathedral will be renovated some day.
 

mspath

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liberation.fr, 21:15, 15/04/2018
De notre journaliste Jérôme Lefilliâtre :
«Il faut faire son deuil»
Un vieil homme, chapeau sur la tête, discute avec un jeune, près du Pont reliant l'île Saint-Louis à celle de la Cité.

«-Jamais je n'aurais cru que ce soit possible, commente le premier. Qu'il y ait un incendie dans un coin, oui. Mais voir toute la toiture de Notre-Dame brûler, c'est inimaginable. Il a fallu plusieurs siècles pour la construire, c'est le symbole de Paris. Bien plus que la Tour Eiffel, qui a été construite en peu de temps... Il faudra une dizaine d'années pour la reconstruire...

- Mais ce ne sera jamais qu'une copie, répond l'autre. Notre-Dame est détruite. Il faut faire son deuil.»
 

KinkyOne

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I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Been there.

Many priceless objects are gone forever tonight..🙁
Sadly yes but I heard that most of the bronze statues were removed because of the works. You can hardly remove stainglass windows though...
 
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I wonder how many original manuscripts and objects of art have vanished from existence today. Please, let there have been copies....
Just this minute, the news reported that the priests, with the help from the firefighters, managed to save out most of the art/artifacts early after the tragedy began. I hope this is true.
 
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Vacajoe

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Unbelievable. Without words... this is why you travel and visit places why you can. Nothing is permanent on this plane of existence.
 

t2andreo

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Sadly yes but I heard that most of the bronze statues were removed because of the works. You can hardly remove stainglass windows though...
Late photos show most of the stained glass windows simply GONE. Glass does melt at high temperatures and this was mostly leaded glass... which melts at a lower temperature... sigh...
 

VNwalking

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We cannot take anything for granted.
La rosace ouest (1225) la rosace nord (1250) la rosace sud (1250) are reported to have exploded in the intense heat.

But now finally there is a glimmer of good news.
Reports are that the towers are saved and the main structure of the Cathedral is likely safe.
Praying for the healing of a firefighter who has apparently been badly injured. These people are heroes.
 

t2andreo

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I just saw a photo of the north transept facade, with NO support holding it vertical. I hope they buttress that, before a strong wind comes along and causes it to topple.

So sad...
 
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Camino(s) past & future
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Fire department of Paris now reports that main stone structure will stand. This is a massive culture loss for the world. But if the basics are standing, it can be reconstructed. But it will take decades. Glad I saw it before tonight, because I will not live to see it rebuilt. What a heritage tragedy.
 
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Stivandrer

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I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
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I suspect very basic causes: opening up old rofs with the dust, the cobwebs and a lot of dry timber seem to alight like kindlewood, when modern tools are high speed rotating surfaces, and electric wires might cause sparks that catch dust on fire et al...
- we have had the same spire on a nearby cathedral, newly renovated, burn down twice in the last century, due to fluke accidents in spite of every precaution.
This is immensely tragic....
 

MitPunkten

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I can‘t believe it. It‘s heartbreaking. I just can‘t believe its happening in Paris again.
Je pleures avec vous, Paris.
 

NorthernLight

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It occurs to me, current pilgrim @david1, who is walking from Wales, passed through Paris a month ago, might well possibly be the last pilgrim to get a stamp from Notre Dame, for a very long time.

(He'll be asleep now somewhere southwest of Pamplona.)
 

Geodoc

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So glad my wife and I had the opportunity to visit it before our Camino last year (I even lit a candle on my mother's behalf). We were planning on taking our youngest (she's an artist) after our Camino this year...

55106
 

MitPunkten

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President Macron said they will raise money to rebuild Notre Dame starting to collect Tuesday. If every pilgrim would donate only a few euros we could really make a difference. I‘ll post a link or something as soon as I see it.
Lets rebuild it all together!
Sorry if my English sounds weird. It‘s pretty late in Europe already.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
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President Macron said they will raise money to rebuild Notre Dame starting to collect Tuesday. If every pilgrim would donate only a few euros we could really make a difference. I‘ll post a link or something as soon as I see it.
Lets rebuild it all together!
Sorry if my English sounds weird. It‘s pretty late in Europe already.
I think if you direct your wish correctly, the Catholic Church has the money ready already.
 

FamPed

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This evening's reportage and images of the Notre Dame fire are heart breaking. April 15, 2019 has now become another date of horrific infamy for Paris.
I am so sad to hear about this tragedy. There is no words that fully describes what an enormous loss this is to Paris, France and the world.. My prayers are with the firefighters and Notre-Dame itself. 🕯
 

David Tallan

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It was certainly a tragedy and it is certainly terribly damaged but it has been rebuilt before and it will be rebuilt again. The spire that is gone was less than 200 years old to replace an earlier one. It can be replaced again. The rose window was also not original but a reproduction. It can be reproduced again. The treasures and relics were saved. The Notre Dame is one of the best documented cathedrals in existence. We have the knowledge needed to rebuild it. It will still be there for future generations to enjoy.
 
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Terrible but please remember that Windsor castle was burnt out as well and has been beautifuly restored lets hope there is the will to bring it back. I will always remember the Sunday I listened to the wonderful service many years ago .
 

Charles Zammit

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[ Via Francigena 2019]
My heart is breaking for all Parisians , citizens of France and pilgrims in general . This is a dreadful tragedy , one that is sure to scar the hearts and minds of all who hold this place dear . A loss perhaps too great to recover from .
 
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Margaret Butterworth

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Check this post for a recent picture of the inside of the Cathedral, written by one of the world’s experts on medieval architecture.
 

Sharonih

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CF (SJPdP to Santiago) March 15, 2018
As soon as I heard, that was what I felt as if my heart was breaking. I have been blessed to have been to Notre Dame a number of times. We are resilient, our pain is real but nothing like those who have the privilege of living near there. May the re birth of Notre Dame swiftly begin. 😢❤
 

Sharonih

Active Member
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Check this post for a recent picture of the inside of the Cathedral, written by one of the world’s experts on medieval architecture.
I feel a load of pain has been lifted off so many with this passage
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
Yes a truly sad day for Parisan, all of France the citizens of the world. I have been fortunate to visit Paris 3 times Notre Dame was always on the list of places to go. Very sad this morning😥
 

Delphinoula

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The Lady and her people have overcome many fires in the past. I have no doubt that the Parisienne with their Gallic fevre will make sure she will rise again.
The one thing that consoles me is that it was not deliberate. So whatever is lost will live on in our collective memories. As a fellow preserver of time I am only curious how they will reinvent this Grand Dame.
 

VNwalking

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Is it certain that the rose windows are gone?
Fortunately now it appears that the North window has suvived:
Face nord les rosaces semblent avoir tenu. Sur la rue, au sol, aucun débris de vitraux. Juste des vieilles pierres éclatées... « on reste inquiet » glisse un pompier.
The organ? Has anyone heard??
 

t2andreo

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Fortunately now it appears that the North window has suvived:

The organ? Has anyone heard??
I am confused. I thought the north transept windows were gone.

Then again, I may be directionally challenged. My understanding is that the altar end of the cathedral faces East, as is traditional.

That means that the main facade and entrance, faces West, as does the Cathedral at Santiago. That is why I stated earlier that the North transept windows were gone. Was I wrong?

Huh?
 

t2andreo

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Early morning reporting, here in the US, but on the BBC, is that the relics and art treasures saved from the fire will be conserved, stored and eventually displayed at the Louvre.

It makes a lot of sense for these art and religious treasures to be displayed in a separate curated collection at the Louvre. I hope the reportage was correct.
 

NorthernLight

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Well, the Louvre would have the expertise and security to look after them.

I was reading that the wood used in the roof beams came from primal wood forests that no longer exist in France. I'd think some modern technology in rust-proof, light-weigh, fire-retardant titanium steel might get substituted anyway.
 

t2andreo

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With sprinklers this time, maybe.

From early reportage, it appears that the world is pitching in to fund reconstruction. This is a very good sign, not only for Notre Dame, but for the world.

Let us continue to hope and pray...
 

Kathar1na

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Interesting article in today's edition of the Diaro de Leon about the man who saved Leon cathedral in 1966 when the wooden structure that makes up part of the roof caught fire and was totally destroyed. The article points out that the weight of the water used for extinguishing the fire is one of the greatest dangers for the stone vault underneath the wooden structure. If the vault goes, the whole cathedral is in danger of collapsing. Just in case someone is still wondering why ""flying water tankers"" were not used in Paris. 🤯


Leon is sometimes called "the most French of Spanish cathedrals".

And: "In León, they also learned something important when it comes to rebuilding the roof: 'Wood is no longer used, and in the case of our cathedral a metal structure was chosen'."
 
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VNwalking

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It is a source of hope to read this article and to see the photos of the Cathedral in Leon, as it was then.
In the same way, Notre Dame can be restored.

Here is a good article listing what has made it through the fire and what has not:

It appears that accounts last night of the rose windows exploding are in error.
And the organ has not burned.
Both things to be very thankful for.
Notre Dame can rise again.
It is Semana Santa, after all. (Which is a one of those coincidences that raise hair on the back of necks...)

And, yes @t2andreo it's confusing. Here is an image from another Guardian article, showing which rose windows are where:Capture1.PNG
 

t2andreo

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I just had a thought... I hope and pray that the authorities handling the renovation at the Cathedral in Santiago take heed from this sad experience, and revisit practices on the job to prevent another such accident from occurring...o_O

I know that the exterior of the roof was worked on last year. Presently, they are working on, among other things, the interior of the vaulted ceilings. This is why Mass cannot be held there.

The other observation I can make is that the roof surface at Santiago is stone. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. But I have been up there several times, and this is my best recollection.

The roof sheathing on the Cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris was lead, joined and sealed with solder. That explains the need for flame and or heat, like from a blow torch or something similar.

Finger crossed...
 

VNwalking

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I just had a thought... I hope and pray that the authorities handling the renovation at the Cathedral in Santiago take heed from this sad experience, and revisit practices on the job to prevent another such accident from occurring...o_O
I have had that thought too. But after this fire, they would be total idiots not to consider that...I bet they are all scrambling right now to make sure the job that is being done in Santiago is double- and triple-checked for safety.

And yes. The part of the rooftop that we are allowed to climb around on is definitely stone.
20150413_184335.jpg
 

CWBuff

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021"
I am confused. I thought the north transept windows were gone.

Then again, I may be directionally challenged. My understanding is that the altar end of the cathedral faces East, as is traditional.

That means that the main facade and entrance, faces West, as does the Cathedral at Santiago. That is why I stated earlier that the North transept windows were gone. Was I wrong?

Huh?
Seems they are safe: Notre Dame Rose Windows Safe
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
But after this fire, they would be total idiots not to consider that...I
They are aware of it in all the medieval cathedrals of the known world :). Seville Cathedral even put out a press release because they receive so many requests for information about their security and safety measures. There's a line in it that refers to "passive measures that are inferior to those of churches with wooden roofs" (medios pasivos que inferior al de aquellos templos con cubiertas de madera). I've visited Seville Cathedral but remember little about the architecture.

Does this mean that stone roofs like those of Seville and Santiago don't rest on a wooden frame? Does anyone know? The famous "forest", ie the wooden frame - age of the wood, complexity, dimensions - of the roof of Nôtre Dame de Paris was legendary. And it's gone forever ... 😟.
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/Francés ('16)
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Ingles ('18)
Vasco/?/Invierno ('19)
The famous "forest", ie the wooden frame - age of the wood, complexity, dimensions - of Nôtre Dame de Paris was legendary. And it's gone forever ... 😟.
It was astonishing...and no wonder the fire burned as it did. There was a forest of fuel:
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
It was astonishing...and no wonder the fire burned as it did. There was a forest of fuel:
I was amazed - as well as horrified of course - to see the spire burn the way it did before it collapsed.

Apparently, the medieval (stone?) spire had collapsed (several times?) because of storms and Parisians had completely forgotten that it once existed until the restoration work under the direction of Viollet-le-duc in the 1800s. He had it built in wood covered by lead leaves.

Detailed story with photos one doesn't see often here: http://hermetism.free.fr/Viollet-le-duc_architecte.htm
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. Next: Toulouse to Lourdes
As you probably know I am from Paris and yesterday was ... excrutiatingly hard. I really thought N-D would collapse and disappear and it was unbearable. I could not even watch. Apparently it was a matter of 15 to 30 minutes.... Those wonderful firemen saved it.
This morning, hope again!
So many memories.... Palm Sundays with my mother, also as a teen-ager stopping by on my way home on a Sunday to listen to the organ rehearsal early evening....even though I was always told off for being late for dinner 😁
More recently, the time when soldiers refused to let me in because I had a (small) suitcase - Vigipirate oblige. I learnt my lesson and when visiting my father only carried a small bag!
I have never left Paris without a short visit. My heart bleeds.
But.... there were no dead and as I write, it is still standing!
Fluctuat nec mergitur.
 

biarritzdon

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF11, CF12, CP13, CF14, CA15, S.Anton15, CF&CI15
Ditch Pig16, CF&CP17, CdN18, CM18, CF18, LePuy19
Some of you, probably many of you, may respond to this post as blasphemy but I honestly think it should NOT be restored to its original form. First of all there are many Gothic churches and cathedrals to visit, so why one more which is no longer the original? This is a sacred site and it needs more than just a tasteful reproduction of what was there. Consider it sat on the site of a Roman temple, not much different that what the Cathedral in Santiago sat on, also a site occupied by previous places of worship dating back to the Romans which were serial destroyed or replaced by something grander than before. This is an opportunity for the construction of a modern marvel of architecture and faith. I am suggesting something well beyond the transformation that Pei gave the Louvre with the glass pyramid. This could be place so grand and awe inspiring that it rivals the grand mosques in Mecca or Abu Dhabi with acoustics that elevate organ music and antiphonal chants to a level never heard by the human ear. Need I say more.
This fire was an unmitigated disaster but it could easily have been a lightening strike that might hit any other ancient cathedral in Europe.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
Some of you, probably many of you, may respond to this post as blasphemy but I honestly think it should NOT be restored to its original form. First of all there are many Gothic churches and cathedrals to visit, so why one more which is no longer the original?
Not going to happen and besides, can you find a Gothic cathedral anywhere that is still in its "original" form? Santiago de Compostela isn't, that's for sure. And all the others have also been modernised or modified throughout the centuries in many ways, either because it was necessary or wanted.

Burgos Cathedral - as I just read in the news - has a roof with hardly any wood, after remodelling during the last century. The wooden roof structure was replaced by a structure of concrete and iron (I guess that's actually steel) between 1965 and 1980. The article also explains the great danger that water represents for these precious buildings and their content.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
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I agree with you up to a point. My view is that, as the exterior is largely intact, as are the inner walls, and basic structure. most of the necessary reconstruction will focus on the roof.

It appears that this roof, as most cathedrals were built around the world, actually has two roofs. There is an inner series of load bearing arches leading to the soaring vaulted ceilings. I believe two of these inner roof structures failed and fell during the fire.

Incidentally, this is why Mr. Trump's suggestion to use water dropping tanker planes or helicopters could not be used. Once the outer roof burned through, dropping that much water in one place would collapse the roof arches from the outside in. It would be like the mother of all water balloons. Gothic cathedral architecture is unique. Everything is balanced against everything else. Apply too much weight or pressure in the wrong place, and the whole structure could collapse.

The suggestion was sound and well intentioned, but lacked an understanding of actual conditions and the underlying roof structure. No harm,. no foul... and NO political criticism or credit is intended... Just explaining that the physics of the problem are different from a different sort of building.

Meanwhile... The outer roof that we see from outside is usually a flat sided roof, held up to an angle to shed water. The construction is not dissimilar to any other large building with a gabled roof pitch. The main roof frame was trusses made of huge oaken timbers. They were liked drilled and pinned with huge wooden or iron pins to hold them together at the correct angle. Cross beams would have been used to create a rigid frame, like so many roof trusses we see today.

Perpendicular to this ran thinner wooden battens. These are the small strips you see in the very sad photos of the roof engulfed fully in flames. The roof sheathing or cladding, stone or lead would be mounted to these horizontal wooden pieces.

The choice of lead or stone would have been up to the architect, the sponsor, the local religious authorities, and what was available. Back in the day, lead was preferred as it was malleable, could be bent into shapes needed to conform, to the roof. It could be easily worked with heat, as it had a low melting point. Finally, it could be worked into thin panels or roofing tiles that were durable and could be handled by a worker on the high scaffolding.

The down side to lead, and what MAY turn out to be a proximate cause of the fire, is that you must seal lead, or bond it, with melted solder, or using nail link pegs through drilled holes. The latter is not unlike modern house roofing shingles. The issue is that one needs heat to melt solder to get it to do its thing to bond or make a seal between two lead surfaces, or to work lead into angles or corners.

I am certain that the underlying roof support structure in Santiago and for most other cathedrals is also massive wooden beams, cross members, and horizontal battens. However, I understand than stone roofing slabs are mounted differently from lead sheathing. I also understand that because of these differences, the fire risk is less.

I agree with you that the reconstruction should use modern materials. But, given the roof design, I think these materials could be hidden from view. For example, instead of massive wooden beams, cross members or trusses, use lightweight but immensely strong modern material like a steel alloy or titanium. This stronger structure will be hidden by the inner and outer roof structures that one can see. They can be manufactured off site and craned into position.

Further, I would not replace the now gone lead roof with lead again. I would instead replace these panels with look alike panels made from a fire resistant but very durable material, like concrete. It can be made to look like stone or lead sheathing. It can be molded to the desired shape, thickness, color and texture. It can be glazed and fired to produce a lead-like outer finish.

I offer at least five rationales for this:
1. It is less expensive than lead or quarried stone
2. It is environmentally better than lead
3. It will look and function at least as well as the previous sheathing
4. It can be more easily replaced as needed in future
5. It is durable.

For example, look at all the Spanish tile roofs in Santiago and across all of Spain that are made, not of concrete but of MUD, terra cotta to be precise. Consider HOW old the roof of Our Lady of Corticela is, those of you who have been on the cathedral roof understand that when you look down on the chapel portion of the cathedral in the northeast corner during the roof tour.

When those same tiles are made instead of modern concrete, durability can be measured in hundreds of years or more. Consider that the Romans built structures two thousand years ago, with concrete that are still standing today.

Finally, IMHO, I would reconstruct the inner roof vaults exactly as they were. This will hide any more modern roof materials hidden between the two roof structures.

Just sayin...
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/Francés ('16)
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Vasco/?/Invierno ('19)
I would reconstruct the inner roof vaults exactly as they were.
There will be the mother of all jigsaw puzzles when they take the jumble of fallen stones under the fallen vaults and do whatever it takes to put them together again.

Here's the window:
Thank you for posting this @MinaKamina. It is astonishing they are still there.
The survival of the entire structure can be laid at the feet of the Paris firefighters - it was a close thing :
"Notre Dame Cathedral was within “15 to 30 minutes” of complete destruction as firefighters battled to stop flames reaching its gothic bell towers, French authorities have revealed.

A greater disaster was averted by members of the Paris fire brigade, who risked their lives to remain inside the burning monument to create a wall of water between the raging fire and two towers on the west facade."
 
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Frances Bat

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances SJPdP (June 2017)
Camino Frances Sarria (June 2018)
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I am so glad the rose windows have survived unscathed. Well done to the firefighters! It sounds like they battled hard to prevent the complete destruction of the cathedral.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
In answer to my question:

Chief of the Santiago fire brigade: "I have to say that the Cathedral of Santiago has a lower fire risk than Notre-Dame de Paris because it does not have a wooden [roof] structure".​
Correo Gallego, 17.4.2019, Hai que ter en conta que a Catedral de Santiago ten moita menor carga de lume que a de París porque non ten estrutura de madeira. I hope I got the translation right, I struggled a bit with the word lume.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
The suggestion was sound and well intentioned
No, it wasn't.

PS: Sorry, moderators, but there's something wrong with the forum policy if qualifying statements can be made that have to be tolerated in silence. Not from this guy (and I don't mean @t2andreo). In fact, the suggestion to use flying water tankers [sic] has been qualified as "laughable" by people who know a thing or two about Urban Building 1.0. The words used were techniquement impossible, irréalisable, totalement inutile and surprise was expressed that such a risible suggestion was taken up and spread by the social networks. Of which we are a part.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
suggestion to use water dropping tanker planes or helicopters could not be used. Once the outer roof burned through, dropping that much water in one place would collapse the roof arches from the outside in. It would be like the mother of all water balloons. Gothic cathedral architecture is unique. Everything is balanced against everything else. Apply too much weight or pressure in the wrong place, and the whole structure could collapse.
This is not correct.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
I've just listened to the French prime minister as he announced that there will be an international design competition for the new spire of Notre-Dame: something more like it had been in the late Middle Ages, something like the one that was destroyed in the fire or something new altogether. At your desks, this is your chance 🙂.

I personally wouldn't mind if they left it off altogether ...
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
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This is not correct.
Ok. No harm done. Using water tankers was a dumb idea. I thought it was a dumb idea. But when made, I believe it was well intentioned, however ignorant of the facts and gothic architecture. That said, since when has any politician allowed facts to get in the way of good rhetoric?

I suggest we allow this tangential discussion to just wither away, before someone decides it is political and stops the entire dialog. This would be unfortunate, as this thread is a good one in general.
 

Pelegrin

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
In answer to my question:

Chief of the Santiago fire brigade: "I have to say that the Cathedral of Santiago has a lower fire risk than Notre-Dame de Paris because it does not have a wooden [roof] structure".​
Correo Gallego, 17.4.2019, Hai que ter en conta que a Catedral de Santiago ten moita menor carga de lume que a de París porque non ten estrutura de madeira. I hope I got the translation right, I struggled a bit with the word lume.
Very good translation. Lume is fire. Much more used than fogo.
 

CWBuff

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021"
Here is something else that may spark an interest of Esteemed members:

TWITTER PLEA: An American who snapped a photo of a man happily lifting a little girl off her feet outside the cathedral is hoping to find them so they can see the photo. It was snapped by Brooke Windsor an hour before the cathedral burst into flames. Windsor tweeted the photo, which has now been retweeted over 200,000 times:
Twitter Plea

Of course, "as usual" some people can't help but take a swipe at "stupid uncouth Americans" and inject politics.... but if we all rise above it - hey perhaps someone here just may be able to help 👍
 

CWBuff

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021"
More images (these are from the inside...including the "Golden Altar Cross" that has been making its SM rounds
ND Inside Images
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
I suggest we allow this tangential discussion to just wither away.
Vale 😊.

Though I'd like to clarify that I was probably not the only person who, while watching these horrible images, wondered why they didn't drop water from above and why there were so relatively few firefighters trying to extinguish the fire from the outside. As I don't have an army of experts in my employment and I don't get access to expert information by snipping my fingers or by speed dialling, I kept my mouth shut and soon enough I learnt the numerous reasons why they do things in France the way they do it there.

So let me finish with one last quote from my newest information source (interview in Libération). It should steer the conversation into different waters I reckon:

A further factor that did not allow the use of water bombers is the ban on aerial firefighting during night time in France, in contrast to what is practiced in Australia for example: "There, they will intervene in areas at distances of 100 km (?) from the next house. The worst that can happen there is that they kill a kangaroo!"​
 
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