Derek Booth
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances March 2019
Cam. Port. April 2024
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I have to say that I have never heard of these….
I take it then they are not like the HORNY TOAD who can be consulted for directions?Nasty buggers, keep dogs far away from them, they can kill them.
I've now got the late great Bernard Cribbins singing in my head...I’ve no idea if white-helmet made it home.
I gave up the horny toad and bought a compass.I take it then they are not like the HORNY TOAD who can be consulted for directions?
Vaya con Dios
and stay safe!
Samarkand
Ugh! Thank you for this bit of information of things I never considered. I'm allergic to caterpillars (no really) and develop really bad asthma and am unable to breathe if I am in an area with an abundance of the little creatures. I'm making a mental note to not walk in late winter/early spring.I am in contact with several non Camino walkers who are currently in the Iberian Peninsular.
They are reporting that the Processionary caterpillers are falling out of their nests and starting their march across the landscape. Whilst these reports are for the more temperate parts of Spain and Portugal, I remember when doing the C. Frances in March, they were on the move. It could be that those doing the C. Portugese or Via de la Plata may come into contact with them within the next month.
Stay safe!
Done!!!Thank you @Derek Booth but please add "are dangerous" to the thread title so more people may end up reading your post.
Dogs also sniff them and the hairs go into their throat and lungs which can cause death.Oruga procesionaria, VERY dangerous, dogs step on the caterpillars or the hairs which irritates their pads, they lick the pad, hair is transferred to tongue which eventually drops off or the dog dies - nasty. It happened to one of our dogs. Was riding through the woods south of Cadiz on Tuesday and have never seen so may orugas, 1000s of 'em. Didn't realise they lived further north, stay well clear! Can cause serious allergic reaction in humans.
Damn, and I thought vipers, bees/wasps and the huge flies were what to look out for. Adding these predatory caterpillars to the growing list of critters to stay away from.
Derek, this picture is it the earlier stages of the web or something else entirely? Taken in early November on the Invierno near Mirador de las Perdices.
Are you sure that web worms are the same as the oak processionary and the pine processionary? I am not an expert but they appear to be different.In the southern USA , we call them web worms
It's a difficult one to answer.Damn, and I thought vipers, bees/wasps and the huge flies were what to look out for. Adding these predatory caterpillars to the growing list of critters to stay away from.
Derek, this picture is it the earlier stages of the web or something else entirely? Taken in early November on the Invierno near Mirador de las Perdices.
Web worms are not the same as these processionary moths. The web worms we have in the Southern US are harmless except for stripping hardwood trees of their leaves.Are you sure that web worms are the same as the oak processionary and the pine processionary? I am not an expert but they appear to be different.
I live in Europe and when I was younger I had never heard of these moths and their caterpillars but in recent years I have become aware of the existence and dangers of the oak processionary in particular. They have spread geographically and multiplied significantly, and I know that, at least in some European countries, there are large scale efforts of pest control to combat them in public parks in towns and cities as well as general health warnings when they become active during the third stadium of the larvae development.
Typically, 20-30 caterpillars move in one long row, head to toe so to speak, across a street or path, and from afar it looks like a snake. They can be seen in late spring/early summer in northern parts and earlier in the year in southern parts of Europe. I've not seen them in Spain but I saw them on the way while walking through France.
According to Wikipedia (I did not check other sources), the oak processionaries were accidentally introduced to the UK in 2005, almost certainly as eggs on live oak plants imported from continental Europe.
Thank you - a very helpful warning.I am in contact with several non Camino walkers who are currently in the Iberian Peninsular.
They are reporting that the Processionary caterpillers are falling out of their nests and starting their march across the landscape. Whilst these reports are for the more temperate parts of Spain and Portugal, I remember when doing the C. Frances in March, they were on the move. It could be that those doing the C. Portugese or Via de la Plata may come into contact with them within the next month.
For those who may be flying in from all over the World to do their personal Camino, or even those who are from Europe but unaware of this pest you should be aware of the danger posed..
The caterpiller is created from eggs laid by a moth which spins a gossamer nest, particularly in conifer trees.
At the approprite stage of life, the caterpillers drop out of the nest onto the ground and start their march, nose to tail across the landscape. The caterpillers are covered in very fine 'hairs' which can pierce the skin and cause extreme irritation. You should not pick them up and give them a very wide berth. Domestic animals are particularly prone to injury as a result of their inquisitiveness.
A couple of photo's for you
View attachment 140768
View attachment 140769
Something NOT to do!!!
Stay safe!
I am in contact with several non Camino walkers who are currently in the Iberian Peninsular.
They are reporting that the Processionary caterpillers are falling out of their nests and starting their march across the landscape. Whilst these reports are for the more temperate parts of Spain and Portugal, I remember when doing the C. Frances in March, they were on the move. It could be that those doing the C. Portugese or Via de la Plata may come into contact with them within the next month.
For those who may be flying in from all over the World to do their personal Camino, or even those who are from Europe but unaware of this pest you should be aware of the danger posed..
The caterpiller is created from eggs laid by a moth which spins a gossamer nest, particularly in conifer trees.
At the approprite stage of life, the caterpillers drop out of the nest onto the ground and start their march, nose to tail across the landscape. The caterpillers are covered in very fine 'hairs' which can pierce the skin and cause extreme irritation. You should not pick them up and give them a very wide berth. Domestic animals are particularly prone to injury as a result of their inquisitiveness.
A couple of photo's for you
View attachment 140768
View attachment 140769
Something NOT to do!!!
Stay safe!
The life cycle of moth, larvae and caterpillar of the pine processionary is definitely related to temperature - just for the benefit of those who may not be aware of this ...There is a very detailed history and discussion about this caterpillar/moth which goes back to 77AD according to Wickipedia . apparently the pests are harmful to just about everything but they too have their predators. Their recent expansion is due to Global Warming
Practically the whole canopy would have to be covered to stop photosynthesis. Have you found any scientific studies about this (I'm asking out of interest, not criticism)? Without the scientific proof there are many other things that could have brought an early end to the tree.Here north of the Pyrenees, (southern France), you will find these charming creatures mainly in pine trees but also in other trees. You will see white filaments hanging from pine needles: those are nests and usually climb up the poor trees when Spring arrives in procession lines. If let unchecked, these nests will ultimately kill the trees.
Scientific studies? No, just observation for several trees that were infested by the caterpillars that literally chocked them.Practically the whole canopy would have to be covered to stop photosynthesis. Have you found any scientific studies about this (I'm asking out of interest, not criticism)? Without the scientific proof there are many other things that could have brought an early end to the tree.
There are hundreds of websites with good information about the pine processionary moth and the oak processionary moth and their caterpillars in English, French, German and Spanish on the web, and probably in a few other languages, too. I have not yet read that the white silken nests strangle trees but if that is what someone has seen with their own eyes and drawn this conclusion I’d not dare to question it.Without the scientific proof there are many other things that could have brought an early end to the tree.
A topical antihistamine cream, such as Benadryl, and oral antihistamines, again Benadryl, and perhaps Chlor-Trimeton may help. And there are topical corticosteroids available in several different forms and strengths, from mild and sold over the counter to very potent and requiring a prescription. Not everyone is going to react the same to these little suckers, so there’s no “one size fits all” approach. Unfortunately, you won’t know how you are going to react until you do. So, check with your doc first if you’re very concerned; be vigilant on the trail, and carry some form of antihistamines, if you aren’t negatively affected by them, of course.The critters itch like crazy…apparently it is the fur of these animals that create the itch. Having arrived here years ago, I experienced them. Calamine lotion that helps to calm down the itching such as when you come into contact with poison ivy or poison soumack won’t calm these itches, and the itching lasts for days, not for hours.
Yes, I was aware of these creatures from reading a thread previously posted on here.Thanks for the important reminder. A search will reveal that we have some threads about it, e.g. this one, but yours is a particularly good, concise explanation. I have seen them a number of times while walking the camino - I can't remember exactly when and where, but it must have been in March-April or October November. I knew not to touch them, but am glad to learn more.
I have seen them crossing the trail on the CF in March. I stopped to watch them-slowly moving-across the ground, but aswith all bugs,save perhaps butterflies, no desire to touch them. .Thanks for the important reminder. A search will reveal that we have some threads about it, e.g. this one, but yours is a particularly good, concise explanation. I have seen them a number of times while walking the camino - I can't remember exactly when and where, but it must have been in March-April or October November. I knew not to touch them, but am glad to learn more.
Look like American tent caterpillars. Nasty buggers. I have seen caterpillars migrating but never these.!I am in contact with several non Camino walkers who are currently in the Iberian Peninsular.
They are reporting that the Processionary caterpillers are falling out of their nests and starting their march across the landscape. Whilst these reports are for the more temperate parts of Spain and Portugal, I remember when doing the C. Frances in March, they were on the move. It could be that those doing the C. Portugese or Via de la Plata may come into contact with them within the next month.
For those who may be flying in from all over the World to do their personal Camino, or even those who are from Europe but unaware of this pest you should be aware of the danger posed..
The caterpiller is created from eggs laid by a moth which spins a gossamer nest, particularly in conifer trees.
At the approprite stage of life, the caterpillers drop out of the nest onto the ground and start their march, nose to tail across the landscape. The caterpillers are covered in very fine 'hairs' which can pierce the skin and cause extreme irritation. You should not pick them up and give them a very wide berth. Domestic animals are particularly prone to injury as a result of their inquisitiveness.
ADDENDUM
It may come as a surprise to readers of this wonderful facility, (ivar's website) that not everyone is aware of either the content, or Shock!!! of it's actual existence!
As someone walking any Camino over the next few months, I think it would be appropriate if, when walking and seeing the nests or even worse the caterpillars themselves, you bring them to the attention of your fellow travellers. I was a solitary walker but still was able to point out the danger to those in my 'bubble'.
A couple of photo's for you
View attachment 140768
View attachment 140769
Something NOT to do!!!
Stay safe!
Lurch! Dang. Haven’t seen you since the days at Stetson. You lookLook like American tent caterpillars. Nasty buggers. I have seen caterpillars migrating but never these.!
I’d have needed a mid-sized midwestern town of professional cloggers to stamp out the unbelievably long line of them near Lumbier! Even the passing cars couldn’t make a dent in their numbers as they crossed the highway.stomp them all
When I started this thread I knew there were posts on here.There are hundreds of websites with good information about the pine processionary moth and the oak processionary moth and their caterpillars in English, French, German and Spanish on the web, and probably in a few other languages, too. I have not yet read that the white silken nests strangle trees but if that is what someone has seen with their own eyes and drawn this conclusion I’d not dare to question it.
May I recommend again the excellent info on https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/
Pine processionary moth caterpillars feed on the needles of pine trees and some other conifer tree species, and in large numbers they can severely defoliate trees. This can weaken the trees, making them more vulnerable to attack by other pests or diseases, and to environmental stresses such as drought or flood.
Pilgrims may want to know that even when the caterpillars have moved on to the next stage of their lives their left behind nests that can fall to the ground eventually still pose a health thread as the numerous poisonous tiny hairs may be left behind. So keep a distance and don’t touch.
I count myself as one of those with no previous knowledge of the these caterpillars, but I sure do now. I’ve got feelers out to some bug aficionado friends back home in México to see if we have anything similar there. Hope not.When I started this thread I knew there were posts on here.
However, the makeup of the thousands of peringrinos flying in from all over the World on, what could be for them, a once on a lifetime trip, means that they would have very little chance of knowing about these creatures.
I for one had no knowledge of them until I came across them (literally) on a campsite in Spain.
On my walk, Dina and Sean from Denver had no knowledge, Peter from Austria was unaware and Johanna and Leah from Leipzig were intrigued.
Knowledge is power.
I'd be curious to know whether people who grew up and live in Spain or in the larger Mediterranean area have, in general, always been aware of the processionary caterpillars and their poisonous hairs and danger to the health of humans, animals and trees, or whether it's more like further north in Europe where we have learnt about them only in recent years, due to them spreading up north and becoming more of a problem, apparently due to milder winters and better environmental living conditions for them, and apparently also due to a lack of predators?In Spain there are many people who think that the traps for the butterfly males with feminine pheromones hanging from the pine branches are artificial nests.
I don't remember when was the first time I saw them here in the pine forests of Madrid and Mediterranean areas, more than 30 years ago. In north Spain, more recently, I have seen forests very bad affected in the Basque Country (radiata pines).I'd be curious to know whether people who grew up and live in Spain or in the larger Mediterranean area have, in general, always been aware of the processionary caterpillars and their poisonous hairs and danger to the health of humans, animals and trees, or whether it's more like further north in Europe where we have learnt about them only in recent years, due to them spreading up north and becoming more of a problem, apparently due to milder winters and better environmental living conditions for them, and apparently also due to a lack of predators?
Even our wonderful host, Ivar, was unaware of them, according to his post early in this thread.I'd be curious to know whether people who grew up and live in Spain or in the larger Mediterranean area have, in general, always been aware of the processionary caterpillars and their poisonous hairs and danger to the health of humans, animals and trees, or whether it's more like further north in Europe where we have learnt about them only in recent years, due to them spreading up north and becoming more of a problem, apparently due to milder winters and better environmental living conditions for them, and apparently also due to a lack of predators?
Ivar lives in Santiago now but he grew up a long way north of there. I know that climate change is slowly extending their range but I don't think they have got as far as Norway yet!Even our wonderful host, Ivar, was unaware of them, according to his post early in this thread.
Perhaps the powers that be in SdC have banned them!
Then the powers that be in S de C must have a lotta pull!Even our wonderful host, Ivar, was unaware of them, according to his post early in this thread.
Perhaps the powers that be in SdC have banned them!
Wasps important to look out for. Especially if you are like me, i didn't know I was allergic. Found out the hard way.Damn, and I thought vipers, bees/wasps and the huge flies were what to look out for. Adding these predatory caterpillars to the growing list of critters to stay away from.
Derek, this picture is it the earlier stages of the web or something else entirely? Taken in early November on the Invierno near Mirador de las Perdices.
Some folks shouldn’t take it, but Benadryl tablets have worked for me for just those kind of encounters. I, however, only have mild reactions to getting stung. A buddy of mine down in México carries an Epi-pen wherever he goes, as he now suffers from severe reactions to bee, wasp and hornet stings, and will go into anaphylactic shock without it. As his reactions got gradually worse with each sting, he went to an allergist who prescribed the jab for him. It has saved his nalgas on more than one occasion. He’s a magnet for those stinging little guyz.Wasps important to look out for. Especially if you are like me, i didn't know I was allergic. Found out the hard way.
Caterpillars in a line queuing up…Very surprised to see these caterpillars so early in the season here in southwest France. Usually it’s not until late March.
Another very dry summer expected.
Caterpillar nests in trees.
So yah, now I carry Benadryl and an EPI pen. Not saying everyone has to.Some folks shouldn’t take it, but Benadryl tablets have worked for me for just those kind of encounters. I, however, only have mild reactions to getting stung. A buddy of mine down in México carries an Epi-pen wherever he goes, as he now suffers from severe reactions to bee, wasp and hornet stings, and will go into anaphylactic shock without it. As his reactions got gradually worse with each sting, he went to an allergist who prescribed the jab for him. It has saved his nalgas on more than one occasion. He’s a magnet for those stinging little guyz.
That is cobwebs with dew. Notice that it is flat and on the weeds. The processionary critters do look a lot like webworms, and build blobs of silk in trees like them, but these "webworms" are toxic. I saw a few of them on the Frances in May 2014.Damn, and I thought vipers, bees/wasps and the huge flies were what to look out for. Adding these predatory caterpillars to the growing list of critters to stay away from.
Derek, this picture is it the earlier stages of the web or something else entirely? Taken in early November on the Invierno near Mirador de las Perdices.
Just moved to Valencia I've a big garden with huge pines. Always worried about them I sweaped them once clothes on and I was bed ridden for a week. Horrible things.Here in Valencia we had some in the garden, in a conifer for sure. Had to have the tree treated. Result... Expensive but more so for the caterpillar!!! But have seen them more in the north of the country. Just be careful
Thank you for bumping it - this is a good warning for those who are on the Camino or will be walking soon.I make no apologies for 'Bumping' this thread.
There were many on the Mozarabe a couple of weeks ago but not so prolific to be in their lines. Definitely increasing in number after very cold days. What was strange was that they seemed to have a route implanted in themselves. I rescued three from a big puddle (there were many drowned) but they turned and went straight back into the water. Bizarre!Thank you for bumping it - this is a good warning for those who are on the Camino or will be walking soon.
This year, it has!Spring brings two things: processional caterpillars and the annual forum warning on processional caterpillars! I feel like Camino season has officially begun!!!!
Webworms can't hurt humans, animals, or healthy plants. Although their webs are unsightly in trees, their damage is considered insignificant to established plants because the insect doesn't feed on the leaf veins, plus the leaves are about to fall off anyway.In the southern USA , we call them web worms
Thé nests have erupted as early as early March this year…I first saw a line of these caterpillars on a road near MONTESQUIOU on the Chemin Français, south of AUCH (late February, and very, very early).I have to say that I have never heard of these….
Sorry to disagree, but they will strip a small tree of all leavesWebworms can't hurt humans, animals, or healthy plants. Although their webs are unsightly in trees, their damage is considered insignificant to established plants because the insect doesn't feed on the leaf veins, plus the leaves are about to fall off anyway.
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